Originally posted by imbant .....then Darkfall is for you.
Not trying to be a skeptic, but those trying to sell the game with euphemism should be put back down to reality before people waste money.
I have to agree with Snowblind. It`s no need to hype DF for something it isn`t. And o`boy you will hate the running, because you`ll run everywhere. Kill some mobs...run back to bank...run back to mobs...die...respawn at bindstone...run back....visit another town...run. I hope the gating system will lessen the running when our magery is high.
If you are going to hype DF, focus on the good things DF have. PvP and full-loot.
In my opinion DarkFall is not "Sandboxy" enough. I'd have preferred it being closer to UO and/or Pre-CU SWG.
Pre-selected building sites
Pre-determined building placement
Universal banking
Gated skill progression
Perhaps some of those will change... but it seems they keep progressing towards less "sandbox" as opposed to more.
Not trying to be a skeptic, but those trying to sell the game with euphemism should be put back down to reality before people waste money.
Agreed. I'm getting tired of people treating this game like it's the second coming of Christ. People just need to stop.
Lol @ people who have to blow things out of proportion because they can never make a valid point. Pretty pathetic when your only comments end up being "omg cult df fanatics think the game is the second comming of christ", pretty sure it makes you look like you are on a mission to see the game fail.
My post in no way said that it was the second comming, in fact it was telling people to not buy the game...and i would love to go into my opinion of the problems with DF right now and why it isnt ready for release...get over yourself and try to remember why you joined a mmo site...
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
You really are in full damage control mode aren't you Imbant. Anyone with a shred of intelligence can sense a shfit in your tone and attitude. Just a heads up though, the more shrill-type posts you make, the more they'll come back to haunt you when the cat gets out of the bag and some spiteful troll decides to necro them for the amusement of the forumgoers.
LOL you people are pathetic. Darkfall is easily the best game on the market now....even if i think it should be delayed...still the best mmo experience availible right now TO GAMERS WHO LIKE THE TYPE OF GAMEPLAY THAT DF WAS DESIGNED AROUND.
I dont post here that often anymore....cause im uh "busy"...nice to see that there are still bottom feeders spaming the df forum with every instance they can to put DF down for whatever sad reason. Get over yourself.
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
Very simple. Darkfall is a ridiculously amazing sandbox game, but it is very very very "sandboxy". Im not saying that you are less of a gamer if you like themepark/linear/handholding/whatever type mmos. I am simply saying that if you do not like sandbox games, do not think you will play Darkfall and think that "oh maybe it will have some non sandbox elements"...it doesn't.
Now if you are the kind of gamer who....
Likes the idea of finding a mob in the middle of nowhere, and having no idea how powerful it is, and can only guess based on its name and appearance. Is HUGE on exploration...as in walking/riding aimlessly looking at the map and thinking "hey there may be something cool like an underground clanstone or interesting cave', and then telling your guild how you found this amazing spot. Is looking for a crafter's wet dream mmo in terms of the economy and demand (not necessarily the mechanics of the actual crafting). Enjoys player driven content. Guild v Guild politics Realistic gameplay environments (having to scan the horizon when you turn a corner...actually being able to duck behind some ruble in a city when being chased then run up some stairs to avoid 10 people trying to kill you and being able to escape vs. having a big green name above your head and being locked on to magically). Likes exploring...oh did i mention that? well DF exploration is that rewarding. And a ridiculous amount of sandbox elements i cant get into
.....then Darkfall is for you. Just felt like sharing. Also expecting lots of people on February 25th to be making posts like "omg this game sucks, i was totally trying to farm goblins and this guy like totally killed me and took away all the gold i had been there for 2 hours farming...huh why would i go bank it?" and "wtf am i suppose to do?"....
Sandbox is what most people expect going into the game. Many things are not customizable, espscially cities. Skills feel like eq leveling - i.e. not every branch is open from the start. Nothing like grinding lesser and greater magic before I can do anything worthwhile!
Let me go through your points.
1. Well considering there are only about 5 mobs per outlier continents, with half being npcs of player races, it doesn't take long to figure out. If you don't know, there isn't any risk. Just run around, take a few hits, and get out. The only way you'll die is if you get caught on terrain or run in a straight line.
2. The world is big, yes. Empty as well. Yes, you might find a small cave or cravess in middle of nowhere...but there is no point to it. Assuming it has mobs at all, they are the same mobs as the rest of the areas and give nothing unique. In a pvp game where resources matter, most people will not bother running to the middle of nowhere when they can get the same things close-to-home.
3. There is only one beneficial, not profitable, type of crafting right now.
4. Player-driven content?
5. Guild politics occurs in any game.
6. It is nice you can hide around corners, like many games, but not all. You can also crouch-sneak as well. Efforts are pretty much worthless if they have a few stam potions and you don't, and they decide to run.
7. Exploring is rewarding? as someone who loves exploring and has mapped 3/4ths of the world so far, I disagree. Everything feels 'copied and pasted' 100 times over.
Not trying to be a skeptic, but those trying to sell the game with euphemism should be put back down to reality before people waste money.
Cant really believe that you are in beta with some of the points mentioned here. Thank you for some of the feedback though that didnt use phrases like "lol df is teh poo and fanboy is a cult member".
Guild politics, while they can occur in any game, cant even be compared to what they mean in DF.
Player driven contact...not sure you understand what this means since you just put a ? next to it...i thought it was pretty self explanatory.
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
I cant wait for all the people screaming"were are the quests?" LOL Hope those people dont bother to play. And about sieges..did you men the timer?? Its still in beta.
99% of the MMO community either don't know or don't care about DF. So I wouldn't worry about people running around crying that they can't see bright yellow exclamation marks above NPC's heads. Those of us that actually were interested in trying something different have been driven away by the DF community. It'll be carebear free, I can guarantee you that. The question is, in a world that is driven by PvP, is there going to be anyone left to fight?
99% is just a ridiculous overstatment for whatever reason you chose....that is not accurate whatsoever no matter how bad you want to believe it.
Darkfall has had the #1 or #2 spot on the "most popular" thing on this website showing unique hits to DF...it is at least been mentoined on every decent pvp guild forum...to say 99% of the mmo community doesnt know or doesnt care about DF is absurd.
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
I like sandbox games doesn't mean i have to buy DF. I'm sure there will be way better sandbox games to follow DF int he future.
I haven't come across a decent one since UO
Have you tried EVE? I was the same way once the tram-fel split came. Since then I had looked but could not find, resorting to consoles. Once I tried EVE, I found my replacement and look forward to giving DF a try.
Cant really believe that you are in beta with some of the points mentioned here. Thank you for some of the feedback though that didnt use phrases like "lol df is teh poo and fanboy is a cult member". Why is it so hard to believe? Is it because he's not blindly praising the game? Or is it because he objectively went through each and every one of your claims and explained to you how they really are? Guild politics, while they can occur in any game, cant even be compared to what they mean in DF. What exactly is so special about guild politics in DF? Just because guilds can declare war on each other doesn't make it special? That function has been around since the days of UO. Take a look at EVE. Corporation and alliance politics in that game blow away anything that DF has to offer. Player driven contact...not sure you understand what this means since you just put a ? next to it...i thought it was pretty self explanatory. Please explain this "player driven content". Do you mean in terms of actual player created quests or when player actions shape the world? really cant get into more right now. I will patiently await your reply.
I like sandbox games doesn't mean i have to buy DF. I'm sure there will be way better sandbox games to follow DF int he future.
I haven't come across a decent one since UO
Have you tried EVE? I was the same way once the tram-fel split came. Since then I had looked but could not find, resorting to consoles. Once I tried EVE, I found my replacement and look forward to giving DF a try.
Eve is a GREAT experience if you are someone who is turned on by the gameplay mechanics of DF. A great example of what i meant by "guild politics" and "player driven content" that i mention in OP. I played it for awhile but ultimately im more into fantasy based MMOs and being able to control my character and actually see my character...but even with that i enjoyed the hell out of EVE because it is just that fun.
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
Either I like it and win, or don't like it and cancel- thereby contributing to the 3-month accordion effect which is devastating to themepark MMOs and probably fatal to sandbox MMOs
Win/Win!
Edit: As for guild politics and territory claiming- here's to hoping they patch in a reason for that to occur before launch.
In my opinion DarkFall is not "Sandboxy" enough. I'd have preferred it being closer to UO and/or Pre-CU SWG.
Pre-selected building sites Pre-determined building placement Universal banking Gated skill progression
Perhaps some of those will change... but it seems they keep progressing towards less "sandbox" as opposed to more.
It's inevitable since a pure sandbox has zero comtent and almost nothing to do not "you can do anything" as some people claim. . Limitations come with expanded play possibilities. Counterintuitive but true.
Pre selected building sites. A quick perusal of Shadowbane history will explain the reasoning behind this. The biggest stumbling block is if people can plant anywhere they will and you can never add or change content to the main world because it will destroy people's cities.
Pre determined building placement. Not sure but I think they are trying to limit what buildings a site can have to prevent all cities being copies of a "perfect" template.
Universal banking. It' a concession to the game being full loot PvP.
Gated skill progression. Yeah they're just stretching out the grind with that. Boo Hiss.
They're making compromises to gameplay and some of them I really don't like but that's always going to happen.
Good points... I'll see what you think of my counter-points.
Pre-selected building sites:
They could have accomplished pretty much the same objective and yet still given more freedom by widening the "zone" or "area" that the city can be placed in.
This way they still get to decide approximately where each city and hamlet will be located, yet the players get more freedom in deciding exactly where within a set area that the city resides. The exact size of the area to allow for city placement could have been something that was tweaked to make bigger or smaller depending on how it played in Beta.
Pre-determined building placement:
Again, even if they wanted to stick with this rigid non-sandbox method of city building they could have chosen other methods to at least make it appear that the player has more control.
For instance...
Allow for wider variation in the build order that buildings must be built.
Why does the bank always have to be first?
Allow for trade-offs to be selected by the player.
Meaning that if limiting certain buildings was the intent then make the player have to decide which "path" they want for their city. Once a certain "path" is chosen then only certain buildings are available. This could be "undone" by demolishing the buildings and starting over. A big sacrifice... but at least the option exists.
Allow for certain buildings to be placed in multiple places within the city.
Meaning that a clan workbench building for instance could be placed in building spot B, E, G, or M. While a siege workshop building could be placed at B, F, H, or M. Something like that anyway. That way even though two city with the same "template" of buildings still looks different because the building are not in the exact same placement.
Universal banking:
I don't know... it just seems that universal banking creates more problems than it solves.
Who is going to be traveling cross-country with a full load of supplies, resources, loot? Nobody. Everyone will just dump everything they want moved in the closest bank, then travel to the destination and remove the goods from the closest bank at the destination point.
For me anyway it seems that the process of having to get the loot back to your hometown to keep it safe would help be a self-limiting aspect for gankers. Once they are full of loot themselves... they will have to safely navigate back to their own bank in order to make sure their bounty is safe.
The farther you wander from your hometown the more risk involved in getting back safely with your loot... as it should be. Just seems so contrived to kill someone at an enemy city, loot him, and then bank his stuff at his own city. Even if he does manage to revive in time and gather some forces to kill the ganker... won't matter... the ganker has already banked the loot. That just seems really backwards to me.
Gated Skill Progression:
Not much to counter here... as we agree. It just seems that the more we learn how each of the skills interact with each other the more it reads like a laundry list of restrictions. For me anyway it doesn't seem very different from normal levels.
Want to use certain magic? Well start leveling this skill to x... then the next skill to y... then the next skill to z. Then you can use it.
Want to wear certain armor? Same thing.
Want to use certain weapons? Same thing.
Want to craft certain items? Same thing.
And on it goes. So how is that drastically different than regular levels again?
What was wrong with the idea of being able to use anything and everything from day one... but you get better at the things you do and use on a more regular basis? The higher your skill rises the more damage you do, less fizzles, less misses... etc.
Rare or exceptional skills can still be used, but they would be the exception, not the rule. The trainers for these rare or exceptional skills could be hidden away in remote places scattered through-out the world. Giving reason to travel, explore, and wander.
You want to be able to cast a certain powerful spell? To do so you will need to find and perhaps defeat in a duel a secret trainer hidden in some far off cave on an island.
You want to wield a certain powerful weapon or wear a rare armor? You will need to find the trainer for that skill buried in some dungeon at the heart of an area hotly contested by other clans. Or, perhaps the trainer will appear in your clan city once you have successfully defeated another clan's city.
Anyway you probably get the idea. There are numerous ways to allow for certain skills to be "saved" until a player progresses farther into the game without resorting to having to grind up skills that they don't really want but are necessary to "unlock" skills farther up the chain. To me that is no different than grinding regular levels. Both very boring.
Heh... this ended up being much longer than I originally intended... oh well... perhaps some will make it through the wall of text. I'm sure I have plenty of errors in there.... I'll look it over again later and edit some mistakes.
Anyway you probably get the idea. There are numerous ways to allow for certain skills to be "saved" until a player progresses farther into the game without resorting to having to grind up skills that they don't really want but are necessary to "unlock" skills farther up the chain. To me that is no different than grinding regular levels. Both very boring.
Let me explain metagaming:
Metagaming is playing "outside of" the real game. It's looking at the big picture, knowing a lot about how the entire game works, and making decisions based on that big picture view that create a more powerful character despite what it takes to actually accomplish it. Metagaming is about building characters, rather than playing a game. Metagaming is about "winning" through knowledge and statistics rather than emulated skills. I put "winning" in quotation marks because it's laughable - roleplaying games aren't won or lost, everyone always wins no matter the result.
If I were to expand on the OP's choice of title, it would be this: If you are a metagamer, DO NOT BUY DF. The game is not going to cater to your interests, that much I can tell already.
When I start playing Darkfall, I'll be picking skills that I want my character to use regardless of what other skills get opened up because of those choices... otherwise known as role-playing.
Sandbox needs sand, bucket spade, maybe a toy digger truck. From what I am hearing all this has is dog poo. From the leaks it sounds like they could have called it Dark and Light 2. Hard to tell seems like even beta testers only get to play 10 minutes a day (which aparently is about how long the servers are up) Edit; Oh and there are already guilds bragging about sploits that are putting them firmly on top.
"apparently" they are patching at least once a day...maybe something to do with why servers are down a lot? ive actually heard they are up for hours at a time consistently and brought down to patch...not cause it crashes.
keep making stuff up...only makes the game look that much more appealing when people see others desperately trying to put the game down
Hahaha they are not patching every day and even if they did should it take 22 hours of the day to do so?
As I say I am also hearing it is full of macroers and exploiters getting a 'leg up', nothing like a level playing feel in a game that is pvp centric eh?
Sandbox is what most people expect going into the game. Many things are not customizable, espscially cities. Skills feel like eq leveling - i.e. not every branch is open from the start. Nothing like grinding lesser and greater magic before I can do anything worthwhile! Let me go through your points. 1. Well considering there are only about 5 mobs per outlier continents, with half being npcs of player races, it doesn't take long to figure out. If you don't know, there isn't any risk. Just run around, take a few hits, and get out. The only way you'll die is if you get caught on terrain or run in a straight line. 2. The world is big, yes. Empty as well. Yes, you might find a small cave or cravess in middle of nowhere...but there is no point to it. Assuming it has mobs at all, they are the same mobs as the rest of the areas and give nothing unique. In a pvp game where resources matter, most people will not bother running to the middle of nowhere when they can get the same things close-to-home. 3. There is only one beneficial, not profitable, type of crafting right now. 4. Player-driven content? 5. Guild politics occurs in any game. 6. It is nice you can hide around corners, like many games, but not all. You can also crouch-sneak as well. Efforts are pretty much worthless if they have a few stam potions and you don't, and they decide to run. 7. Exploring is rewarding? as someone who loves exploring and has mapped 3/4ths of the world so far, I disagree. Everything feels 'copied and pasted' 100 times over. Not trying to be a skeptic, but those trying to sell the game with euphemism should be put back down to reality before people waste money.
Originally posted by xzyax Universal banking: I don't know... it just seems that universal banking creates more problems than it solves. Who is going to be traveling cross-country with a full load of supplies, resources, loot? Nobody. Everyone will just dump everything they want moved in the closest bank, then travel to the destination and remove the goods from the closest bank at the destination point. For me anyway it seems that the process of having to get the loot back to your hometown to keep it safe would help be a self-limiting aspect for gankers. Once they are full of loot themselves... they will have to safely navigate back to their own bank in order to make sure their bounty is safe. The farther you wander from your hometown the more risk involved in getting back safely with your loot... as it should be. Just seems so contrived to kill someone at an enemy city, loot him, and then bank his stuff at his own city. Even if he does manage to revive in time and gather some forces to kill the ganker... won't matter... the ganker has already banked the loot. That just seems really backwards to me.
I agree about universal banking, it should be removed
Gated Skill Progression: Not much to counter here... as we agree. It just seems that the more we learn how each of the skills interact with each other the more it reads like a laundry list of restrictions. For me anyway it doesn't seem very different from normal levels. Want to use certain magic? Well start leveling this skill to x... then the next skill to y... then the next skill to z. Then you can use it. Want to wear certain armor? Same thing. Want to use certain weapons? Same thing. Want to craft certain items? Same thing. And on it goes. So how is that drastically different than regular levels again?
Where have you read this? From what I've heard there isn't any prerequisite to wield certain weapons, or wear certain armors.
What was wrong with the idea of being able to use anything and everything from day one... but you get better at the things you do and use on a more regular basis? The higher your skill rises the more damage you do, less fizzles, less misses... etc.
Rare or exceptional skills can still be used, but they would be the exception, not the rule. The trainers for these rare or exceptional skills could be hidden away in remote places scattered through-out the world. Giving reason to travel, explore, and wander. You want to be able to cast a certain powerful spell? To do so you will need to find and perhaps defeat in a duel a secret trainer hidden in some far off cave on an island. You want to wield a certain powerful weapon or wear a rare armor? You will need to find the trainer for that skill buried in some dungeon at the heart of an area hotly contested by other clans. Or, perhaps the trainer will appear in your clan city once you have successfully defeated another clan's city.
Anyway you probably get the idea. There are numerous ways to allow for certain skills to be "saved" until a player progresses farther into the game without resorting to having to grind up skills that they don't really want but are necessary to "unlock" skills farther up the chain. To me that is no different than grinding regular levels. Both very boring.
Heh... this ended up being much longer than I originally intended... oh well... perhaps some will make it through the wall of text. I'm sure I have plenty of errors in there.... I'll look it over again later and edit some mistakes.
What I hope they will do about skills is follow the example of UO, start with a few, selected by you in the creation of the character, skills, that have a rating of 30, or any other, so you'll have a decent start.
part of the reason there have been so many more positive beta leaks about DF than negative is because as a sandbox PVP world, DF is actually pretty great.
almost all the negative leaks/reports are coming from people who obviously are not into the sandbox game style.
eg:
1) "empty world/hard to find mobs" -- mobs all over the map is a WOW/themepark thing. mobs live in communities in DF/sandboxes.
2) "not enough quests" -- themeparks are about quests, sandboxes aren't
3) "didn't know what to do/i only fought goblins" -- again themeparks hold your hand through their quest content, sandboxes create a world with interesting mechanics and player-createable content, and off you go.
DF is more like a fantasy version of EVE, than a sandbox version of WOW. DF and WOW are complete opposites, and if you love WOW, you probably won't like DF.
if on the other hand, you find WOW dull, repetitive and incredibly limited in almost every way (except grind potential), you just might love DF.
DF is more like a fantasy version of EVE, than a sandbox version of WOW. DF and WOW are complete opposites, and if you love WOW, you probably won't like DF.
if on the other hand, you find WOW dull, repetitive and incredibly limited in almost every way (except grind potential), you just might love DF.
I Love WoW and I Love Eve, infact I subscribe to each of them, and a few others in my guild do too.
Because they are well polished, well done games
So they are not mutually exclusive to everyone /grin
and my comment on the OP: Soundslike he's trying to preemptively respond to the posts that will be made here by a LOT of people who are ging to demand their money back because they just paid some greek dude 50 bucks for a server is down message and a login screen.
but what the heck, maybe i'll be wrong. I highly, highly doubt it. But if i am, I'll probably even give it a try, maybe 3 months along if resources one can trust say it's really all that.
Itch
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
I Love WoW and I Love Eve, infact I subscribe to each of them, and a few others in my guild do too. Because they are well polished, well done games So they are not mutually exclusive to everyone /grin
Very simple. Darkfall is a ridiculously amazing sandbox game, but it is very very very "sandboxy". Im not saying that you are less of a gamer if you like themepark/linear/handholding/whatever type mmos. I am simply saying that if you do not like sandbox games, do not think you will play Darkfall and think that "oh maybe it will have some non sandbox elements"...it doesn't.
Now if you are the kind of gamer who....
Likes the idea of finding a mob in the middle of nowhere, and having no idea how powerful it is, and can only guess based on its name and appearance. Is HUGE on exploration...as in walking/riding aimlessly looking at the map and thinking "hey there may be something cool like an underground clanstone or interesting cave', and then telling your guild how you found this amazing spot. Is looking for a crafter's wet dream mmo in terms of the economy and demand (not necessarily the mechanics of the actual crafting). Enjoys player driven content. Guild v Guild politics Realistic gameplay environments (having to scan the horizon when you turn a corner...actually being able to duck behind some ruble in a city when being chased then run up some stairs to avoid 10 people trying to kill you and being able to escape vs. having a big green name above your head and being locked on to magically). Likes exploring...oh did i mention that? well DF exploration is that rewarding. And a ridiculous amount of sandbox elements i cant get into
.....then Darkfall is for you. Just felt like sharing. Also expecting lots of people on February 25th to be making posts like "omg this game sucks, i was totally trying to farm goblins and this guy like totally killed me and took away all the gold i had been there for 2 hours farming...huh why would i go bank it?" and "wtf am i suppose to do?"....
Possibly, but have you considered this. If you don't like Darkfall, it doesn't mean you don't like sandbox games?
Or, if you like sandbox games, you won't necessarily like Darkfall?
For example, you do realize a game can be a sandbox without PvP, right?
The problem is Darkfall does not meet the definition of a sandbox game.
An example sandbox game is Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. In Elder Scrolls IV the NPCS have their own duties where they get up from bed, go to work, and the go home at night. You can start conversation with the NPCs and make them hate or like you.
From the beta video I saw, Darkfall is a world filled with a random lone mob that you kill. There are no NPCs that does their own routine. There are no NPCs you can talk to and form a relationship with.
* Likes the idea of finding a mob in the middle of nowhere, and having no idea how powerful it is, and can only guess based on its name and appearance. * Is HUGE on exploration...as in walking/riding aimlessly looking at the map and thinking "hey there may be something cool like an underground clanstone or interesting cave', and then telling your guild how you found this amazing spot. * Is looking for a crafter's wet dream mmo in terms of the economy and demand (not necessarily the mechanics of the actual crafting). * Enjoys player driven content. * Guild v Guild politics * Realistic gameplay environments (having to scan the horizon when you turn a corner...actually being able to duck behind some ruble in a city when being chased then run up some stairs to avoid 10 people trying to kill you and being able to escape vs. having a big green name above your head and being locked on to magically). * Likes exploring...oh did i mention that? well DF exploration is that rewarding. * And a ridiculous amount of sandbox elements i cant get into
Most of the stuff in your list does not have sandbox elements. This is a list of gameplay features that 99% of other MMORPGs have out there.
I Love WoW and I Love Eve, infact I subscribe to each of them, and a few others in my guild do too. Because they are well polished, well done games So they are not mutually exclusive to everyone /grin
heh.
i did say 'probably' and 'might'. ;-)
true true
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
And here is another amazing revelation: If you don't like beer - DO NOT BUY GUINESS.
Of course people who don't like sandbox games shouldn't buy it. Question is more if people who do should, there are difference between sandboxes and sandboxes.
People who like themeparks still don't like most of the games in the genre, just because you liked Everquest doesn't mean you like Wow, AoC or even EQ2. Same thing goes for sandboxes.
Comments
Not trying to be a skeptic, but those trying to sell the game with euphemism should be put back down to reality before people waste money.
I have to agree with Snowblind. It`s no need to hype DF for something it isn`t. And o`boy you will hate the running, because you`ll run everywhere. Kill some mobs...run back to bank...run back to mobs...die...respawn at bindstone...run back....visit another town...run. I hope the gating system will lessen the running when our magery is high.
If you are going to hype DF, focus on the good things DF have. PvP and full-loot.
In my opinion DarkFall is not "Sandboxy" enough. I'd have preferred it being closer to UO and/or Pre-CU SWG.
Pre-selected building sites
Pre-determined building placement
Universal banking
Gated skill progression
Perhaps some of those will change... but it seems they keep progressing towards less "sandbox" as opposed to more.
Agreed. I'm getting tired of people treating this game like it's the second coming of Christ. People just need to stop.
Lol @ people who have to blow things out of proportion because they can never make a valid point. Pretty pathetic when your only comments end up being "omg cult df fanatics think the game is the second comming of christ", pretty sure it makes you look like you are on a mission to see the game fail.
My post in no way said that it was the second comming, in fact it was telling people to not buy the game...and i would love to go into my opinion of the problems with DF right now and why it isnt ready for release...get over yourself and try to remember why you joined a mmo site...
~~
Darkfall Releases on: February 25th, 2009
Darkfall Recap of everything that has happened the last 3 months: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/213296
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
LOL you people are pathetic. Darkfall is easily the best game on the market now....even if i think it should be delayed...still the best mmo experience availible right now TO GAMERS WHO LIKE THE TYPE OF GAMEPLAY THAT DF WAS DESIGNED AROUND.
I dont post here that often anymore....cause im uh "busy"...nice to see that there are still bottom feeders spaming the df forum with every instance they can to put DF down for whatever sad reason. Get over yourself.
~~
Darkfall Releases on: February 25th, 2009
Darkfall Recap of everything that has happened the last 3 months: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/213296
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
Sandbox is what most people expect going into the game. Many things are not customizable, espscially cities. Skills feel like eq leveling - i.e. not every branch is open from the start. Nothing like grinding lesser and greater magic before I can do anything worthwhile!
Let me go through your points.
1. Well considering there are only about 5 mobs per outlier continents, with half being npcs of player races, it doesn't take long to figure out. If you don't know, there isn't any risk. Just run around, take a few hits, and get out. The only way you'll die is if you get caught on terrain or run in a straight line.
2. The world is big, yes. Empty as well. Yes, you might find a small cave or cravess in middle of nowhere...but there is no point to it. Assuming it has mobs at all, they are the same mobs as the rest of the areas and give nothing unique. In a pvp game where resources matter, most people will not bother running to the middle of nowhere when they can get the same things close-to-home.
3. There is only one beneficial, not profitable, type of crafting right now.
4. Player-driven content?
5. Guild politics occurs in any game.
6. It is nice you can hide around corners, like many games, but not all. You can also crouch-sneak as well. Efforts are pretty much worthless if they have a few stam potions and you don't, and they decide to run.
7. Exploring is rewarding? as someone who loves exploring and has mapped 3/4ths of the world so far, I disagree. Everything feels 'copied and pasted' 100 times over.
Not trying to be a skeptic, but those trying to sell the game with euphemism should be put back down to reality before people waste money.
Cant really believe that you are in beta with some of the points mentioned here. Thank you for some of the feedback though that didnt use phrases like "lol df is teh poo and fanboy is a cult member".
Guild politics, while they can occur in any game, cant even be compared to what they mean in DF.
Player driven contact...not sure you understand what this means since you just put a ? next to it...i thought it was pretty self explanatory.
really cant get into more right now.
~~
Darkfall Releases on: February 25th, 2009
Darkfall Recap of everything that has happened the last 3 months: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/213296
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
99% of the MMO community either don't know or don't care about DF. So I wouldn't worry about people running around crying that they can't see bright yellow exclamation marks above NPC's heads. Those of us that actually were interested in trying something different have been driven away by the DF community. It'll be carebear free, I can guarantee you that. The question is, in a world that is driven by PvP, is there going to be anyone left to fight?
99% is just a ridiculous overstatment for whatever reason you chose....that is not accurate whatsoever no matter how bad you want to believe it.
Darkfall has had the #1 or #2 spot on the "most popular" thing on this website showing unique hits to DF...it is at least been mentoined on every decent pvp guild forum...to say 99% of the mmo community doesnt know or doesnt care about DF is absurd.
~~
Darkfall Releases on: February 25th, 2009
Darkfall Recap of everything that has happened the last 3 months: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/213296
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
I haven't come across a decent one since UO
Have you tried EVE? I was the same way once the tram-fel split came. Since then I had looked but could not find, resorting to consoles. Once I tried EVE, I found my replacement and look forward to giving DF a try.
I haven't come across a decent one since UO
Have you tried EVE? I was the same way once the tram-fel split came. Since then I had looked but could not find, resorting to consoles. Once I tried EVE, I found my replacement and look forward to giving DF a try.
Eve is a GREAT experience if you are someone who is turned on by the gameplay mechanics of DF. A great example of what i meant by "guild politics" and "player driven content" that i mention in OP. I played it for awhile but ultimately im more into fantasy based MMOs and being able to control my character and actually see my character...but even with that i enjoyed the hell out of EVE because it is just that fun.
~~
Darkfall Releases on: February 25th, 2009
Darkfall Recap of everything that has happened the last 3 months: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/213296
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
Oh I'm definitely buying it.
Either I like it and win, or don't like it and cancel- thereby contributing to the 3-month accordion effect which is devastating to themepark MMOs and probably fatal to sandbox MMOs
Win/Win!
Edit: As for guild politics and territory claiming- here's to hoping they patch in a reason for that to occur before launch.
It's inevitable since a pure sandbox has zero comtent and almost nothing to do not "you can do anything" as some people claim. . Limitations come with expanded play possibilities. Counterintuitive but true.
Pre selected building sites. A quick perusal of Shadowbane history will explain the reasoning behind this. The biggest stumbling block is if people can plant anywhere they will and you can never add or change content to the main world because it will destroy people's cities.
Pre determined building placement. Not sure but I think they are trying to limit what buildings a site can have to prevent all cities being copies of a "perfect" template.
Universal banking. It' a concession to the game being full loot PvP.
Gated skill progression. Yeah they're just stretching out the grind with that. Boo Hiss.
They're making compromises to gameplay and some of them I really don't like but that's always going to happen.
Good points... I'll see what you think of my counter-points.
Pre-selected building sites:
They could have accomplished pretty much the same objective and yet still given more freedom by widening the "zone" or "area" that the city can be placed in.
This way they still get to decide approximately where each city and hamlet will be located, yet the players get more freedom in deciding exactly where within a set area that the city resides. The exact size of the area to allow for city placement could have been something that was tweaked to make bigger or smaller depending on how it played in Beta.
Pre-determined building placement:
Again, even if they wanted to stick with this rigid non-sandbox method of city building they could have chosen other methods to at least make it appear that the player has more control.
For instance...
Why does the bank always have to be first?
Meaning that if limiting certain buildings was the intent then make the player have to decide which "path" they want for their city. Once a certain "path" is chosen then only certain buildings are available. This could be "undone" by demolishing the buildings and starting over. A big sacrifice... but at least the option exists.
Meaning that a clan workbench building for instance could be placed in building spot B, E, G, or M. While a siege workshop building could be placed at B, F, H, or M. Something like that anyway. That way even though two city with the same "template" of buildings still looks different because the building are not in the exact same placement.
Universal banking:
I don't know... it just seems that universal banking creates more problems than it solves.
Who is going to be traveling cross-country with a full load of supplies, resources, loot? Nobody. Everyone will just dump everything they want moved in the closest bank, then travel to the destination and remove the goods from the closest bank at the destination point.
For me anyway it seems that the process of having to get the loot back to your hometown to keep it safe would help be a self-limiting aspect for gankers. Once they are full of loot themselves... they will have to safely navigate back to their own bank in order to make sure their bounty is safe.
The farther you wander from your hometown the more risk involved in getting back safely with your loot... as it should be. Just seems so contrived to kill someone at an enemy city, loot him, and then bank his stuff at his own city. Even if he does manage to revive in time and gather some forces to kill the ganker... won't matter... the ganker has already banked the loot. That just seems really backwards to me.
Gated Skill Progression:
Not much to counter here... as we agree. It just seems that the more we learn how each of the skills interact with each other the more it reads like a laundry list of restrictions. For me anyway it doesn't seem very different from normal levels.
Want to use certain magic? Well start leveling this skill to x... then the next skill to y... then the next skill to z. Then you can use it.
Want to wear certain armor? Same thing.
Want to use certain weapons? Same thing.
Want to craft certain items? Same thing.
And on it goes. So how is that drastically different than regular levels again?
What was wrong with the idea of being able to use anything and everything from day one... but you get better at the things you do and use on a more regular basis? The higher your skill rises the more damage you do, less fizzles, less misses... etc.
Rare or exceptional skills can still be used, but they would be the exception, not the rule. The trainers for these rare or exceptional skills could be hidden away in remote places scattered through-out the world. Giving reason to travel, explore, and wander.
You want to be able to cast a certain powerful spell? To do so you will need to find and perhaps defeat in a duel a secret trainer hidden in some far off cave on an island.
You want to wield a certain powerful weapon or wear a rare armor? You will need to find the trainer for that skill buried in some dungeon at the heart of an area hotly contested by other clans. Or, perhaps the trainer will appear in your clan city once you have successfully defeated another clan's city.
Anyway you probably get the idea. There are numerous ways to allow for certain skills to be "saved" until a player progresses farther into the game without resorting to having to grind up skills that they don't really want but are necessary to "unlock" skills farther up the chain. To me that is no different than grinding regular levels. Both very boring.
Heh... this ended up being much longer than I originally intended... oh well... perhaps some will make it through the wall of text. I'm sure I have plenty of errors in there.... I'll look it over again later and edit some mistakes.
Let me explain metagaming:
Metagaming is playing "outside of" the real game. It's looking at the big picture, knowing a lot about how the entire game works, and making decisions based on that big picture view that create a more powerful character despite what it takes to actually accomplish it. Metagaming is about building characters, rather than playing a game. Metagaming is about "winning" through knowledge and statistics rather than emulated skills. I put "winning" in quotation marks because it's laughable - roleplaying games aren't won or lost, everyone always wins no matter the result.
If I were to expand on the OP's choice of title, it would be this: If you are a metagamer, DO NOT BUY DF. The game is not going to cater to your interests, that much I can tell already.
When I start playing Darkfall, I'll be picking skills that I want my character to use regardless of what other skills get opened up because of those choices... otherwise known as role-playing.
To the person talking of guild politics, have you ever played a game called Shadowbane?
"apparently" they are patching at least once a day...maybe something to do with why servers are down a lot? ive actually heard they are up for hours at a time consistently and brought down to patch...not cause it crashes.
keep making stuff up...only makes the game look that much more appealing when people see others desperately trying to put the game down
Hahaha they are not patching every day and even if they did should it take 22 hours of the day to do so?
As I say I am also hearing it is full of macroers and exploiters getting a 'leg up', nothing like a level playing feel in a game that is pvp centric eh?
Quoted for truth.
No toys , no sand, and even the box needs work before it will hold sand. Get the picture?
What I hope they will do about skills is follow the example of UO, start with a few, selected by you in the creation of the character, skills, that have a rating of 30, or any other, so you'll have a decent start.
everything you say is completely true.
part of the reason there have been so many more positive beta leaks about DF than negative is because as a sandbox PVP world, DF is actually pretty great.
almost all the negative leaks/reports are coming from people who obviously are not into the sandbox game style.
eg:
1) "empty world/hard to find mobs" -- mobs all over the map is a WOW/themepark thing. mobs live in communities in DF/sandboxes.
2) "not enough quests" -- themeparks are about quests, sandboxes aren't
3) "didn't know what to do/i only fought goblins" -- again themeparks hold your hand through their quest content, sandboxes create a world with interesting mechanics and player-createable content, and off you go.
DF is more like a fantasy version of EVE, than a sandbox version of WOW. DF and WOW are complete opposites, and if you love WOW, you probably won't like DF.
if on the other hand, you find WOW dull, repetitive and incredibly limited in almost every way (except grind potential), you just might love DF.
I Love WoW and I Love Eve, infact I subscribe to each of them, and a few others in my guild do too.
Because they are well polished, well done games
So they are not mutually exclusive to everyone /grin
and my comment on the OP: Soundslike he's trying to preemptively respond to the posts that will be made here by a LOT of people who are ging to demand their money back because they just paid some greek dude 50 bucks for a server is down message and a login screen.
but what the heck, maybe i'll be wrong. I highly, highly doubt it. But if i am, I'll probably even give it a try, maybe 3 months along if resources one can trust say it's really all that.
Itch
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
heh.
i did say 'probably' and 'might'. ;-)
You just made this game seem amazing.
I hope it has all that.
No toys , no sand, and even the box needs work before it will hold sand. Get the picture?
dude you don't get what a sandbox MMO is, give up.
"waaa i just started EVE and i can't train capital ships, EVE is not a sandbox!!!111" <- this is how ridiculous you and that other guy sound.
Possibly, but have you considered this. If you don't like Darkfall, it doesn't mean you don't like sandbox games?
Or, if you like sandbox games, you won't necessarily like Darkfall?
For example, you do realize a game can be a sandbox without PvP, right?
The problem is Darkfall does not meet the definition of a sandbox game.
An example sandbox game is Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. In Elder Scrolls IV the NPCS have their own duties where they get up from bed, go to work, and the go home at night. You can start conversation with the NPCs and make them hate or like you.
From the beta video I saw, Darkfall is a world filled with a random lone mob that you kill. There are no NPCs that does their own routine. There are no NPCs you can talk to and form a relationship with.
Most of the stuff in your list does not have sandbox elements. This is a list of gameplay features that 99% of other MMORPGs have out there.
Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/RZetlin
heh.
i did say 'probably' and 'might'. ;-)
true true
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
And here is another amazing revelation: If you don't like beer - DO NOT BUY GUINESS.
Of course people who don't like sandbox games shouldn't buy it. Question is more if people who do should, there are difference between sandboxes and sandboxes.
People who like themeparks still don't like most of the games in the genre, just because you liked Everquest doesn't mean you like Wow, AoC or even EQ2. Same thing goes for sandboxes.