It used to be the prolonged development, the lack of PR and the lies. Now its the awful elitist community that seems to be full of nothing more than griefers. I guess that's one less carebear that'll be trying something different.
My major concern is the company itself, it seems like a group of amatures who can't handle a task of making a decent MMORPG. Second major concern is gankfest.
QFT.. I think the team is not able of running a MMO. Customer support etc..
If you see how their are threating their fanati... fans... I fear it will grow worse when it actually is involing money, people needing help with troubleshooting etc.
By far my largest concern is it being a gankfest. I'm all for open pvp, and it's the sandbox nature of this game with open pvp that draws me to it. The concern is that the developers don't have any sense of what a world requires to be a good sandbox when it comes to murder.
The real world is open pvp. There is nothing stopping me from walking next door and killing my neighbor, except for consequences. The fact that this is open pvp which adds realism must be balanced with the fact that killing someone has large consequences. The fear of being caught or the consequences of murder should be very real and almost permanent.
From what I've read it's not uncommon for large groups of people to just be gankers, praying on other players. If this is true, then the developers are not creating a world where we can do what we want, and develop a society where players make the choices. Instead we're going to get a large kill fest much like a first person shooter, and any chance of a cool political real world where people can do anything and live with their choices will be killed.
The developers must make sure that a feeling of a real world exists to players. Even in the dark ages you didn't step 5 feet outside your city and have gangs of people slaughter you for almost no reason with no risk.
To me, other and gankest were a close call. It's a ffa pvp game, so DUH, gankfest is going to be there so really shouldn't be a concern. To me, it is the total contempt for the community and total lack of communication with the community that worries me most. If the company is going to treat the fan base like it does pre-launch, then what are we to expect once they start collecting our money? That is what concerns me the most.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
By far my largest concern is it being a gankfest. I'm all for open pvp, and it's the sandbox nature of this game with open pvp that draws me to it. The concern is that the developers don't have any sense of what a world requires to be a good sandbox when it comes to murder. The real world is open pvp. There is nothing stopping me from walking next door and killing my neighbor, except for consequences. The fact that this is open pvp which adds realism must be balanced with the fact that killing someone has large consequences. The fear of being caught or the consequences of murder should be very real and almost permanent. From what I've read it's not uncommon for large groups of people to just be gankers, praying on other players. If this is true, then the developers are not creating a world where we can do what we want, and develop a society where players make the choices. Instead we're going to get a large kill fest much like a first person shooter, and any chance of a cool political real world where people can do anything and live with their choices will be killed. The developers must make sure that a feeling of a real world exists to players. Even in the dark ages you didn't step 5 feet outside your city and have gangs of people slaughter you for almost no reason with no risk.
I think the idea is that players create their own politics and policing within the game world, without mechanics imposed by the developers. The only problem with this is that in a game like Darkfall where the gankers and griefers outnumber peacekeepers by about 3:1, it isn't going to be a lot of fun.
By far my largest concern is it being a gankfest. I'm all for open pvp, and it's the sandbox nature of this game with open pvp that draws me to it. The concern is that the developers don't have any sense of what a world requires to be a good sandbox when it comes to murder. The real world is open pvp. There is nothing stopping me from walking next door and killing my neighbor, except for consequences. The fact that this is open pvp which adds realism must be balanced with the fact that killing someone has large consequences. The fear of being caught or the consequences of murder should be very real and almost permanent. From what I've read it's not uncommon for large groups of people to just be gankers, praying on other players. If this is true, then the developers are not creating a world where we can do what we want, and develop a society where players make the choices. Instead we're going to get a large kill fest much like a first person shooter, and any chance of a cool political real world where people can do anything and live with their choices will be killed. The developers must make sure that a feeling of a real world exists to players. Even in the dark ages you didn't step 5 feet outside your city and have gangs of people slaughter you for almost no reason with no risk.
Words of wisdom that I share!
People seem to forget lately about Darkfall's potential sandbox and virtual mmorpg world. Now, beta leaks and players are about PvP (from what I've seen lots of ganking, running, and vulture looting), as if they just discovered online fights
I was interested first by the game reading on the website about freedom and involvement on many levels, economy, trade, own territories, etc, *and* on the top of that PvP risk everywhere which sounds both thrilling and challenging, and could lead to intense atmosphere, hatred and loyalty, clan feuds. But to consider PvP action and loot as the core element of a mmorpg would be a sad regression altogether.
I hope Aventurine can flesh out everything and comes up with something valuable, not only harsh PvP!
Right now I'm concerned that they are running out of funding and feel forced to release the game 'no matter what' and the launch/support will suffer for it.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Right now I'm concerned that they are running out of funding and feel forced to release the game 'no matter what' and the launch/support will suffer for it.
If they are out of money, what do you expect them to do? Credit markets have disappeared. They are an Indie company, so that makes there sources of investors is infinately smaller. They either have to launch and hope they can pull and EVE over time or shut the project down. Saying that, we don't know where they stand financially, so this is all speculation.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
My major concern is the company itself, it seems like a group of amatures who can't handle a task of making a decent MMORPG.
Same here. Aventurine simply don't look like they're up to the task at hand. I've got nothing against the idea of Darkfall, or even the player niche that the game is aiming for. I'd like to see a viable FFA PvP game with full loot, even if it's not my scene. I just don't think Aventurine have any idea what they're doing on the business end.
Twelve days to go from the latest release date and the NDA is still in effect, there's no information anywhere about the pre-orders they're supposedly going to take, no system specs announced, no pricing, no monthly billing model, no indication that an open beta is on the way, and there's no word at all on where or how to buy the game either from Aventurine or from AudioVisual, who are supposed to be publishing Darkfall. I don't care one whit if they're an indie company-- that's not how you do business, especially if you're intending for people outside of Greece to buy and pay to play your product.
Honestly, if Aventurine can't even offer that basic type of consumer information less than two weeks before their game goes live in the EU, how will they handle the actual launch, and any CS issues that will arise? How would they handle an American release, for that matter? It's an obvious bit of concern, IMO.
My major concern is the company itself, it seems like a group of amatures who can't handle a task of making a decent MMORPG.
Same here. Aventurine simply don't look like they're up to the task at hand. I've got nothing against the idea of Darkfall, or even the player niche that the game is aiming for. I'd like to see a viable FFA PvP game with full loot, even if it's not my scene. I just don't think Aventurine have any idea what they're doing on the business end.
Twelve days to go from the latest release date and the NDA is still in effect, there's no information anywhere about the pre-orders they're supposedly going to take, no system specs announced, no pricing, no monthly billing model, no indication that an open beta is on the way, and there's no word at all on where or how to buy the game either from Aventurine or from AudioVisual, who are supposed to be publishing Darkfall. I don't care one whit if they're an indie company-- that's not how you do business, especially if you're intending for people outside of Greece to buy and pay to play your product.
Honestly, if Aventurine can't even offer that basic type of consumer information less than two weeks before their game goes live in the EU, how will they handle the actual launch, and any CS issues that will arise? How would they handle an American release, for that matter? It's an obvious bit of concern, IMO.
Quoting from the best mmorpg out there: One does not simply walk into Business!
Same shit happened with indie team behind The Chronicles of Spellborn, very late and hasty decisions, NA and European separate launches (bad for media hype!), split European servers with different publishers and different launch dates, two weeks delay for French-speaking countries because boxes weren't arrived at shops. This rather sweet game without marketing or hype would have been better off without these bad moves
... The real world is open pvp. There is nothing stopping me from walking next door and killing my neighbor, except for consequences. ...
Consequence is the only thing holding you back from murder?
Anyhow, I have no real concerns with DF. I'll gladly wait and see what happens when and if it releases. I will be honest, I am more optomistic now about the game than I have been, and if I was forced to choose a concern, it would be Aventurine itself.
It's a proven historical fact that beer saved humankind.
Right now I'm concerned that they are running out of funding and feel forced to release the game 'no matter what' and the launch/support will suffer for it.
I agree with this somewhat. My biggest concern is that certain aspects of the game needed to be tested a little longer, and I would prefer to see a delay so that everything can get the scrutiny it deserves. If you follow leaked patch notes, you can see they do patch frequently and they are pretty beefy, so even one more month would make a significant difference.
Right now I'm concerned that they are running out of funding and feel forced to release the game 'no matter what' and the launch/support will suffer for it.
If they are out of money, what do you expect them to do? Credit markets have disappeared. They are an Indie company, so that makes there sources of investors is infinately smaller. They either have to launch and hope they can pull and EVE over time or shut the project down. Saying that, we don't know where they stand financially, so this is all speculation.
Hey, the thread OP asked what my greatest concern was, and I voiced it. Aventurine has recently started making decisions (pre-orders anyone?) and setting perhaps unrealistic and rushed released dates despite some peoples legitimate concern that it could use more time.
I know its a tough spot for them to be in, and hey, VG, AOC, & WAR all suffered from rushed releases before them.
Even though I don't have solutions (or know for sure there's a problem) doesn't mean I'm not concerned though, because lately it seems every game's release gets ruined by this demon.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I can live with mediocre graphics and bad character animations – I play World War II Online and love it
I can live with the macroing and botters - I macroed and botted my ass off in UO and L2
I can live with gankfests – I play and Eve Online and love it
My major concern is about the lack of promised features/content/depth .....Baring some mega miracle patch at the 11th hour of beta my worries will become reality
I have come here to chew bubble gum and kick ass... and Im all out of bubble gum
One of my teachers used this phrase alot, and it applies here. Aventurine makes me worried, Tasos' arrogant ass makes me worried, the amount of things they're promising makes me worried, the potential effect of having all the hardcore PvP gankers in one game makes me worried (well, actually, not really. Then they won't engage in Forum PvP anymore! ), etc.
-------------------------------------- A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
My biggest problem is the leaks of PVP being a Gankfest.
To digress here for a bit I will bring up WOW. Great game. Until about the time the “Honor System” came out. What a bad name for that grindfest. Suddenly my level 40 druid became honor fodder for anyone on the other team. There were gangs going around camping low levels. Entire zones became unplayable and most of us had to grind out our 20 or so levels in out of the way places killing mobs. Not exactly a great experience. But it was to be expected in a hardcore PvP server you say? No. Just shut up. No. It wasn’t.
The game play changed after all those characters were played up to 40. Now back then it took a heck of a lot longer to level to 40. I was not about to go start a new character so I chose to go grind. But it really screwed the game for me. I ended up doing MC and then leaving and came back for a while after BC came out but eventually the entire experience caused me to leave the game. It just sucked a lot of the fun out of the game.
By far the biggest complaint I had was the fact that they implemented this “Honor System” crap as a way to make PvP have consequences. When it was originally mentioned the dev’s said that characters would be penalized for ganking lower level characters. That there would be real world type consequences for those people who seem to exclusively seek out lowbies to gank rather than try to use any skill to fight like level enemies. It excited a lot of people who like PvP because it was going to make combat fun again. To be honorable and gain access to special gear a player would have to behave honorably. They would be able to kill lowbies only if the lowbies attacked them first, or face negative consequences. But that fell by the wayside rather quickly when all the leet came out whining about how unfair and carebear like that was. So WOW ended up with a truly pathetic player ganking reward system that ended up making gankers quite happy.
Now keep in mind I like PvP. I think you SHOULD be able to kill anyone and everyone that you want to. I just think that you should have to be RESPONSIBLE for your actions. So if you decide to kill lowbies you get a rep for being a cowardly dog that flees from the first sign of real danger. If you go out and kill a merchant npc in town than the town guard wants your head. From what I am hearing Darkfall is going to be an open sandbox of ganking. Super. So you end up with players who have their own towns and just kill anyone and everyone that comes near them and camps the newbie spawn zone.
That sucks. I have been reading about DF for years and hoped we would actually have a developer get it right. Have an AI programmed that actually reacts to what people are doing and treats them according to a “normal reaction” rule set. Instead it sounds like every other open PVP experience where the first people in the game rocket themselves up the levels then return and gank the lowbies to their hearts content getting their jollies from showing how elite they are vs. people who just started playing the game.
PvP is supposed to be a contest of equals or groups of roughly equal power. Why? Because then each side has a relatively equal chance of winning. There are some out there that disagree and all I have to ask is how bad a player are you if you cannot fight people of equal power? I hope that the leaks are wrong. I hope that PvP in Darkfall does not suck like this. If it does I know I will not be playing it. I will stick with WAR until something better comes along.
PvP is supposed to be a contest of equals or groups of roughly equal power. Why? Because then each side has a relatively equal chance of winning. There are some out there that disagree and all I have to ask is how bad a player are you if you cannot fight people of equal power?
I think I will respectfully disagree with you on this one. There is a popular saying in regards to PvP, that a fair fight is the product of bad tactics or poor planning. There is really no such thing as equal powers fighting, especially in a non-instanced MMO. It has nothing to do with being a bad player, it is just the nature of the game. MMORPG PvP will never really be a fair fight, fair and balanced fights are better suited for genres like FPS and console fighting games.
Again, this is no way a flame at you, it is just a philosophical difference between different groups of players. In a game like Darkfall with full looting, the stakes in most of your PvP fights will be pretty high. Not just because of the looting aspect, but the travel time involved to get back to where you are at. If you find 2 enemies while you are walking around with your group of 3, I seriously doubt you would have 1 of your group stand back and stay out of the battle like a Dragonball Z episode.
Most people will strive to attain every possible advantage, be it numbers, terrain, positioning, and surprise. A person who can master the balance of these tactics is a good player, not a bad one. Real life war is the same way. Before we invade a country, do we look at the enemy army and say, they have 50,000 troops, so we will bring 50,000 because it is the honorable thing to do? No, we bring 200,000 because we want to minimize the damage to our side because the conquences are severe and the stakes are high. Honor quickly takes a backseat to victory when you have something precious to lose.
My biggest worry is that siege warfare won't develop well. I'm not against the status quo as far as the two hour notification as long as when both sides start fighting it's fun.
I do worry a bit that it'll become more about who has the most gold if they're swapping 10k every night just to attack.
Anyway, the whole siege thing needs to be fun. I think that's a tall order. You want to make the defenses mean something, but at the same time you don't want 10 defenders holding off 200 attackers.
So you have to figure out ways to give the defenders some slight advantage, but not enough to make it so it's only possible to take a keep when the defenders are asleep.
If they can nail that, then I think the game will be a winner.
Edit: Paragus, I agree with you, but I would say that the unfairness needs to be closer to fair than many games.
The very best equipped player that is awful at combat shouldn't win every time against the average player that's above average skill. (I include strategy, tactics and twitch as skill, and not just twitch)
Gear, and the level of skills you have should matter some, but I would hope that it never dictates the winner like levels would in other games.
PvP is supposed to be a contest of equals or groups of roughly equal power. Why? Because then each side has a relatively equal chance of winning. There are some out there that disagree and all I have to ask is how bad a player are you if you cannot fight people of equal power?
I think I will respectfully disagree with you on this one. There is a popular saying in regards to PvP, that a fair fight is the product of bad tactics or poor planning. There is really no such thing as equal powers fighting, especially in a non-instanced MMO. It has nothing to do with being a bad player, it is just the nature of the game. MMORPG PvP will never really be a fair fight, fair and balanced fights are better suited for genres like FPS and console fighting games.
Again, this is no way a flame at you, it is just a philosophical difference between different groups of players. In a game like Darkfall with full looting, the stakes in most of your PvP fights will be pretty high. Not just because of the looting aspect, but the travel time involved to get back to where you are at. If you find 2 enemies while you are walking around with your group of 3, I seriously doubt you would have 1 of your group stand back and stay out of the battle like a Dragonball Z episode.
Most people will strive to attain every possible advantage, be it numbers, terrain, positioning, and surprise. A person who can master the balance of these tactics is a good player, not a bad one. Real life war is the same way. Before we invade a country, do we look at the enemy army and say, they have 50,000 troops, so we will bring 50,000 because it is the honorable thing to do? No, we bring 200,000 because we want to minimize the damage to our side because the conquences are severe and the stakes are high. Honor quickly takes a backseat to victory when you have something precious to lose.
I do not disagree with the basics of what you are saying. However what I am talking about and what you are talking about is not that far apart.
The main difference of what I am talking about are those players who seem to almost exclusively target players of low power (IE a level 30 vs level 15) and rarely if ever PvP unless they have a significant advantage. True, some might call that a strategic player. But there is a huge difference between playing intelligently and playing as a min/max ganker.
There are basic, common sense metrics that can be applied to players that would make the rules as fair as possible. True, you will always be able to wait for the most opportune moment to strke. But if you are always being an opportunist and are always preying on the weak you should get a bad reputation for it.
It sounds as if the DF consequences for ganking are nearly non existent. If that is true it makes this another in a long string of games that falls far short of where their PvP rules should be.
Comments
Whether i can play it or not - some 3D games make me dizzy IRL
Whether the gameplay is fun and smooth.
Whether playing a lone crafter is feasible at all.
Our mayor is doing fine. He's not clumsy at all.
I agree with Draklon, same issues for me. Plus if the game is playable at all, we shall see.
My major concern is the company itself, it seems like a group of amatures who can't handle a task of making a decent MMORPG.
Second major concern is gankfest.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
It used to be the prolonged development, the lack of PR and the lies. Now its the awful elitist community that seems to be full of nothing more than griefers. I guess that's one less carebear that'll be trying something different.
QFT.. I think the team is not able of running a MMO. Customer support etc..
If you see how their are threating their fanati... fans... I fear it will grow worse when it actually is involing money, people needing help with troubleshooting etc.
By far my largest concern is it being a gankfest. I'm all for open pvp, and it's the sandbox nature of this game with open pvp that draws me to it. The concern is that the developers don't have any sense of what a world requires to be a good sandbox when it comes to murder.
The real world is open pvp. There is nothing stopping me from walking next door and killing my neighbor, except for consequences. The fact that this is open pvp which adds realism must be balanced with the fact that killing someone has large consequences. The fear of being caught or the consequences of murder should be very real and almost permanent.
From what I've read it's not uncommon for large groups of people to just be gankers, praying on other players. If this is true, then the developers are not creating a world where we can do what we want, and develop a society where players make the choices. Instead we're going to get a large kill fest much like a first person shooter, and any chance of a cool political real world where people can do anything and live with their choices will be killed.
The developers must make sure that a feeling of a real world exists to players. Even in the dark ages you didn't step 5 feet outside your city and have gangs of people slaughter you for almost no reason with no risk.
To me, other and gankest were a close call. It's a ffa pvp game, so DUH, gankfest is going to be there so really shouldn't be a concern. To me, it is the total contempt for the community and total lack of communication with the community that worries me most. If the company is going to treat the fan base like it does pre-launch, then what are we to expect once they start collecting our money? That is what concerns me the most.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
I think the idea is that players create their own politics and policing within the game world, without mechanics imposed by the developers. The only problem with this is that in a game like Darkfall where the gankers and griefers outnumber peacekeepers by about 3:1, it isn't going to be a lot of fun.
Words of wisdom that I share!
People seem to forget lately about Darkfall's potential sandbox and virtual mmorpg world. Now, beta leaks and players are about PvP (from what I've seen lots of ganking, running, and vulture looting), as if they just discovered online fights
I was interested first by the game reading on the website about freedom and involvement on many levels, economy, trade, own territories, etc, *and* on the top of that PvP risk everywhere which sounds both thrilling and challenging, and could lead to intense atmosphere, hatred and loyalty, clan feuds. But to consider PvP action and loot as the core element of a mmorpg would be a sad regression altogether.
I hope Aventurine can flesh out everything and comes up with something valuable, not only harsh PvP!
Right now I'm concerned that they are running out of funding and feel forced to release the game 'no matter what' and the launch/support will suffer for it.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If they are out of money, what do you expect them to do? Credit markets have disappeared. They are an Indie company, so that makes there sources of investors is infinately smaller. They either have to launch and hope they can pull and EVE over time or shut the project down. Saying that, we don't know where they stand financially, so this is all speculation.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
Same here. Aventurine simply don't look like they're up to the task at hand. I've got nothing against the idea of Darkfall, or even the player niche that the game is aiming for. I'd like to see a viable FFA PvP game with full loot, even if it's not my scene. I just don't think Aventurine have any idea what they're doing on the business end.
Twelve days to go from the latest release date and the NDA is still in effect, there's no information anywhere about the pre-orders they're supposedly going to take, no system specs announced, no pricing, no monthly billing model, no indication that an open beta is on the way, and there's no word at all on where or how to buy the game either from Aventurine or from AudioVisual, who are supposed to be publishing Darkfall. I don't care one whit if they're an indie company-- that's not how you do business, especially if you're intending for people outside of Greece to buy and pay to play your product.
Honestly, if Aventurine can't even offer that basic type of consumer information less than two weeks before their game goes live in the EU, how will they handle the actual launch, and any CS issues that will arise? How would they handle an American release, for that matter? It's an obvious bit of concern, IMO.
Same here. Aventurine simply don't look like they're up to the task at hand. I've got nothing against the idea of Darkfall, or even the player niche that the game is aiming for. I'd like to see a viable FFA PvP game with full loot, even if it's not my scene. I just don't think Aventurine have any idea what they're doing on the business end.
Twelve days to go from the latest release date and the NDA is still in effect, there's no information anywhere about the pre-orders they're supposedly going to take, no system specs announced, no pricing, no monthly billing model, no indication that an open beta is on the way, and there's no word at all on where or how to buy the game either from Aventurine or from AudioVisual, who are supposed to be publishing Darkfall. I don't care one whit if they're an indie company-- that's not how you do business, especially if you're intending for people outside of Greece to buy and pay to play your product.
Honestly, if Aventurine can't even offer that basic type of consumer information less than two weeks before their game goes live in the EU, how will they handle the actual launch, and any CS issues that will arise? How would they handle an American release, for that matter? It's an obvious bit of concern, IMO.
Quoting from the best mmorpg out there: One does not simply walk into Business!
Same shit happened with indie team behind The Chronicles of Spellborn, very late and hasty decisions, NA and European separate launches (bad for media hype!), split European servers with different publishers and different launch dates, two weeks delay for French-speaking countries because boxes weren't arrived at shops. This rather sweet game without marketing or hype would have been better off without these bad moves
Consequence is the only thing holding you back from murder?
Anyhow, I have no real concerns with DF. I'll gladly wait and see what happens when and if it releases. I will be honest, I am more optomistic now about the game than I have been, and if I was forced to choose a concern, it would be Aventurine itself.
It's a proven historical fact that beer saved humankind.
I agree with this somewhat. My biggest concern is that certain aspects of the game needed to be tested a little longer, and I would prefer to see a delay so that everything can get the scrutiny it deserves. If you follow leaked patch notes, you can see they do patch frequently and they are pretty beefy, so even one more month would make a significant difference.
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If they are out of money, what do you expect them to do? Credit markets have disappeared. They are an Indie company, so that makes there sources of investors is infinately smaller. They either have to launch and hope they can pull and EVE over time or shut the project down. Saying that, we don't know where they stand financially, so this is all speculation.
Hey, the thread OP asked what my greatest concern was, and I voiced it. Aventurine has recently started making decisions (pre-orders anyone?) and setting perhaps unrealistic and rushed released dates despite some peoples legitimate concern that it could use more time.
I know its a tough spot for them to be in, and hey, VG, AOC, & WAR all suffered from rushed releases before them.
Even though I don't have solutions (or know for sure there's a problem) doesn't mean I'm not concerned though, because lately it seems every game's release gets ruined by this demon.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
hehehe it's all good, was just having a bit of fun
I can live with mediocre graphics and bad character animations – I play World War II Online and love it
I can live with the macroing and botters - I macroed and botted my ass off in UO and L2
I can live with gankfests – I play and Eve Online and love it
My major concern is about the lack of promised features/content/depth .....Baring some mega miracle patch at the 11th hour of beta my worries will become reality
I have come here to chew bubble gum and kick ass... and Im all out of bubble gum
e) All of the Above
The rules of Debate are really simple; once you have to stoop to insults instead of facts, logic, or reason to try and win your argument, you've lost.
One of my teachers used this phrase alot, and it applies here. Aventurine makes me worried, Tasos' arrogant ass makes me worried, the amount of things they're promising makes me worried, the potential effect of having all the hardcore PvP gankers in one game makes me worried (well, actually, not really. Then they won't engage in Forum PvP anymore!
), etc.
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A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
My biggest problem is the leaks of PVP being a Gankfest.
To digress here for a bit I will bring up WOW. Great game. Until about the time the “Honor System” came out. What a bad name for that grindfest. Suddenly my level 40 druid became honor fodder for anyone on the other team. There were gangs going around camping low levels. Entire zones became unplayable and most of us had to grind out our 20 or so levels in out of the way places killing mobs. Not exactly a great experience. But it was to be expected in a hardcore PvP server you say? No. Just shut up. No. It wasn’t.
The game play changed after all those characters were played up to 40. Now back then it took a heck of a lot longer to level to 40. I was not about to go start a new character so I chose to go grind. But it really screwed the game for me. I ended up doing MC and then leaving and came back for a while after BC came out but eventually the entire experience caused me to leave the game. It just sucked a lot of the fun out of the game.
By far the biggest complaint I had was the fact that they implemented this “Honor System” crap as a way to make PvP have consequences. When it was originally mentioned the dev’s said that characters would be penalized for ganking lower level characters. That there would be real world type consequences for those people who seem to exclusively seek out lowbies to gank rather than try to use any skill to fight like level enemies. It excited a lot of people who like PvP because it was going to make combat fun again. To be honorable and gain access to special gear a player would have to behave honorably. They would be able to kill lowbies only if the lowbies attacked them first, or face negative consequences. But that fell by the wayside rather quickly when all the leet came out whining about how unfair and carebear like that was. So WOW ended up with a truly pathetic player ganking reward system that ended up making gankers quite happy.
Now keep in mind I like PvP. I think you SHOULD be able to kill anyone and everyone that you want to. I just think that you should have to be RESPONSIBLE for your actions. So if you decide to kill lowbies you get a rep for being a cowardly dog that flees from the first sign of real danger. If you go out and kill a merchant npc in town than the town guard wants your head. From what I am hearing Darkfall is going to be an open sandbox of ganking. Super. So you end up with players who have their own towns and just kill anyone and everyone that comes near them and camps the newbie spawn zone.
That sucks. I have been reading about DF for years and hoped we would actually have a developer get it right. Have an AI programmed that actually reacts to what people are doing and treats them according to a “normal reaction” rule set. Instead it sounds like every other open PVP experience where the first people in the game rocket themselves up the levels then return and gank the lowbies to their hearts content getting their jollies from showing how elite they are vs. people who just started playing the game.
PvP is supposed to be a contest of equals or groups of roughly equal power. Why? Because then each side has a relatively equal chance of winning. There are some out there that disagree and all I have to ask is how bad a player are you if you cannot fight people of equal power? I hope that the leaks are wrong. I hope that PvP in Darkfall does not suck like this. If it does I know I will not be playing it. I will stick with WAR until something better comes along.
I think I will respectfully disagree with you on this one. There is a popular saying in regards to PvP, that a fair fight is the product of bad tactics or poor planning. There is really no such thing as equal powers fighting, especially in a non-instanced MMO. It has nothing to do with being a bad player, it is just the nature of the game. MMORPG PvP will never really be a fair fight, fair and balanced fights are better suited for genres like FPS and console fighting games.
Again, this is no way a flame at you, it is just a philosophical difference between different groups of players. In a game like Darkfall with full looting, the stakes in most of your PvP fights will be pretty high. Not just because of the looting aspect, but the travel time involved to get back to where you are at. If you find 2 enemies while you are walking around with your group of 3, I seriously doubt you would have 1 of your group stand back and stay out of the battle like a Dragonball Z episode.
Most people will strive to attain every possible advantage, be it numbers, terrain, positioning, and surprise. A person who can master the balance of these tactics is a good player, not a bad one. Real life war is the same way. Before we invade a country, do we look at the enemy army and say, they have 50,000 troops, so we will bring 50,000 because it is the honorable thing to do? No, we bring 200,000 because we want to minimize the damage to our side because the conquences are severe and the stakes are high. Honor quickly takes a backseat to victory when you have something precious to lose.
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My biggest worry is that siege warfare won't develop well. I'm not against the status quo as far as the two hour notification as long as when both sides start fighting it's fun.
I do worry a bit that it'll become more about who has the most gold if they're swapping 10k every night just to attack.
Anyway, the whole siege thing needs to be fun. I think that's a tall order. You want to make the defenses mean something, but at the same time you don't want 10 defenders holding off 200 attackers.
So you have to figure out ways to give the defenders some slight advantage, but not enough to make it so it's only possible to take a keep when the defenders are asleep.
If they can nail that, then I think the game will be a winner.
Edit: Paragus, I agree with you, but I would say that the unfairness needs to be closer to fair than many games.
The very best equipped player that is awful at combat shouldn't win every time against the average player that's above average skill. (I include strategy, tactics and twitch as skill, and not just twitch)
Gear, and the level of skills you have should matter some, but I would hope that it never dictates the winner like levels would in other games.
Asdar
I think I will respectfully disagree with you on this one. There is a popular saying in regards to PvP, that a fair fight is the product of bad tactics or poor planning. There is really no such thing as equal powers fighting, especially in a non-instanced MMO. It has nothing to do with being a bad player, it is just the nature of the game. MMORPG PvP will never really be a fair fight, fair and balanced fights are better suited for genres like FPS and console fighting games.
Again, this is no way a flame at you, it is just a philosophical difference between different groups of players. In a game like Darkfall with full looting, the stakes in most of your PvP fights will be pretty high. Not just because of the looting aspect, but the travel time involved to get back to where you are at. If you find 2 enemies while you are walking around with your group of 3, I seriously doubt you would have 1 of your group stand back and stay out of the battle like a Dragonball Z episode.
Most people will strive to attain every possible advantage, be it numbers, terrain, positioning, and surprise. A person who can master the balance of these tactics is a good player, not a bad one. Real life war is the same way. Before we invade a country, do we look at the enemy army and say, they have 50,000 troops, so we will bring 50,000 because it is the honorable thing to do? No, we bring 200,000 because we want to minimize the damage to our side because the conquences are severe and the stakes are high. Honor quickly takes a backseat to victory when you have something precious to lose.
I do not disagree with the basics of what you are saying. However what I am talking about and what you are talking about is not that far apart.
The main difference of what I am talking about are those players who seem to almost exclusively target players of low power (IE a level 30 vs level 15) and rarely if ever PvP unless they have a significant advantage. True, some might call that a strategic player. But there is a huge difference between playing intelligently and playing as a min/max ganker.
There are basic, common sense metrics that can be applied to players that would make the rules as fair as possible. True, you will always be able to wait for the most opportune moment to strke. But if you are always being an opportunist and are always preying on the weak you should get a bad reputation for it.
It sounds as if the DF consequences for ganking are nearly non existent. If that is true it makes this another in a long string of games that falls far short of where their PvP rules should be.