Personally I do not think you can base success on purely subscriptions as if you look at CCP they have about 50K and have grown steady over the last six years and continue to grow daily. They have evolved and to be a success in this current climate you have to provide changing game play which is not boring or repetitive.
Now some may argue that's just what Eve is, but there is a great game in this sandbox universe and while many other game have proved you can make lots of money in the theme park world. I bet that these type of players would find it difficult to play a sandbox game as it needs more skill to play rather than the holding hand games which are about every where.
While I do not mean that to sound derogative the fact that games have become so easy is the reason many more player are playing so they have created more gamers but with less tolerance in games and this could prove to be hard to help these players move into the sandbox games and have fun.
For games to last and evolve in the future they may have to look at ways of providing both a type of theme park and sandbox game to please more in modern games. Personally I can no longer return to a theme park game as I need to play a game to keep my mind active and my hands too.
When developers make games which are not just hit one button to kill or do anything in a game then we will start to see better gaming but that does not guarantee large subscriptions either. the sad this is that so many games have come and gone and not one gaming company has taken all the good bits added new bits and made an evolving sandbox game to date and when someone does who can keep the world active and evolving then they will find a large following for sure.
The modern gaming generation are growing wiser by the day and our demands will need to be met sooner or later and the company who can achieve this will become successful IMHO, they will get the subscriptions they seek and the player base too, but like all good games people will grow old with it quickly unless they find a way of making it remain fresh and newish to the player base.
Personally I do not think you can base success on purely subscriptions as if you look at CCP they have about 50K and have grown steady over the last six years and continue to grow daily. They have evolved and to be a success in this current climate you have to provide changing game play which is not boring or repetitive.
Now some may argue that's just what Eve is, but there is a great game in this sandbox universe and while many other game have proved you can make lots of money in the theme park world. I bet that these type of players would find it difficult to play a sandbox game as it needs more skill to play rather than the holding hand games which are about every where.
While I do not mean that to sound derogative the fact that games have become so easy is the reason many more player are playing so they have created more gamers but with less tolerance in games and this could prove to be hard to help these players move into the sandbox games and have fun.
For games to last and evolve in the future they may have to look at ways of providing both a type of theme park and sandbox game to please more in modern games. Personally I can no longer return to a theme park game as I need to play a game to keep my mind active and my hands too.
When developers make games which are not just hit one button to kill or do anything in a game then we will start to see better gaming but that does not guarantee large subscriptions either. the sad this is that so many games have come and gone and not one gaming company has taken all the good bits added new bits and made an evolving sandbox game to date and when someone does who can keep the world active and evolving then they will find a large following for sure.
The modern gaming generation are growing wiser by the day and our demands will need to be met sooner or later and the company who can achieve this will become successful IMHO, they will get the subscriptions they seek and the player base too, but like all good games people will grow old with it quickly unless they find a way of making it remain fresh and newish to the player base. Bandit.
I don't know how many subs EvE has but I think you're off a bit. They hit 50K+ concurrent connections last week so I think the subs are substantially larger.
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
A lot of people take comfort in knowing that many thousands or millions of other people are playing the same game as themselves. Some people are like sheep and will continue to play a game they might not fully enjoy knowing that there is safety in numbers. For others the simple fact there is a population akin to their partial needs (ie. plenty of other people around) is good enough whether or not overall the game has massive, average or low subs. When it comes down to it it depends on the server you play and that is small percentage of the overall subscriber amount generally speaking for most mmorpg's.
From the list, for me is the last option. So long as the game is generating enough income to support itself and more importantly further developement / enchancement of that game you may pay to play for that is a decent measurement of success, which ultimately boils down to whether it is worth the money or not.
Maybe the poll could of been split up into P2P and F2P as obviously the end choice may have more meaning if your paying for something rather than not?
I don't know how many subs EvE has but I think you're off a bit. They hit 50K+ concurrent connections last week so I think the subs are substantially larger.
Hmm, I read somewhere here that the official number is about 250K.
It is the 3rd biggest MMO on X-fire after Wow and Guildwars so 50K can't be true unless almost everyone who plays Eve use X-fire and I kinda doubt it.
I grew up believing it wasn't success just to makes enough income to continue operting. Though is these hard economic times I suppose that not declaring bankruptcy is a success story.
I play LOTRO and EVE online and this subject is always a topic of conversation
number of subscribers required for 'success' is propertional to the development + operating cost.
this is why EVE is regarded as a success, AoC as a failure, and WAR as a moderate flop. the first was made cheaply, while the latter 2 involved tens to hundreds of millions.
A successful game is one that is still being played after a few years of release. Tabula Rasa and Auto Assault were very niche games and the reason tabula rasa failed was probbly down to Richard Garriotts ego being bigger than his game. (also it sucked)
EVE is considered a success because of its sandbox style and replay value and just the interactions between the players .But then eve hasnt done anything major to the game since the release they have tweaked and changed things ever so slighlty updated the engine. made it more stable. BUT they havnt gone ahead and released a patch or expansion that totally turned the game on its head.
WOW is considered a sucess due to the quanity of subscribers BUt i feel world of warcraft has atracted a lot of players who never played other games or are just happy playing wow. if dark age still had the population it had at release i would still be playing that the problem is the population decreased to such a level that the game stopped being fun. also mythic implemented changes which fundementally changed the game from release such as TOA and darkness rising and catacombs.
I feel numbers dont make a game sucessful or not, i think a game is successful when someone can play it straight for 5 years and still enjoy it.
Not paying attention to subscribtion numbers even though for a company subscribtion numbers over a time period means income/profit and therefor could mean success....
When i look at warhammer. All the 'awesome' features they put into this game and arent really being used at all then from my point of view even though subscribtions are enough id say the game is a big failure and i cant see it last for many years to come.
I mean check out its pve. Pve is an empty deserted world, except maybe in tier4 which i never played so far since i see no reason to do so. Its much touted PQ system also stays unused.
Game world design being very wrong. Game lakes being unused all over. Most rvr and class mechanics are disliked. Realm balance issues all over the place thanx to only 2 realms. No long lasting appeal thanx to shared zones and mirrored classes.
The only thing that people do in warhammer is run around bo's and keeps and near wc's and do scenario's. My personal opinion is its not even worth the subscribtion price it asks since there's simply to little to do to call it an mmorpg. MMO maybe but definately not an MMORPG.
Personally i see very little possibility of warhammer lasting very long. It might still be a success now but im guessing the near future will see it as a big flop.
Game design simply cannot handle people leaving and accelerates the game into a downward spiral in no time.
The wow crowd doesnt belong to the rest of the mmo market, since they dont seem to try other MMOs.
Well said
I'll think you'll find WoW is in fact a springboard to other MMO's for a lot of people. If it wasn't for WoW I wouldn't have tried games like DDO, AoC, EvE, Vanguard, Guild Wars and LOTRO amongst others. Sadly they weren't as good, but at least it made me want to see what else was out there.
Not paying attention to subscribtion numbers even though for a company subscribtion numbers over a time period means income/profit and therefor could mean success.... When i look at warhammer. All the 'awesome' features they put into this game and arent really being used at all then from my point of view even though subscribtions are enough id say the game is a big failure and i cant see it last for many years to come. I mean check out its pve. Pve is an empty deserted world, except maybe in tier4 which i never played so far since i see no reason to do so. Its much touted PQ system also stays unused. Game world design being very wrong. Game lakes being unused all over. Most rvr and class mechanics are disliked. Realm balance issues all over the place thanx to only 2 realms. No long lasting appeal thanx to shared zones and mirrored classes. The only thing that people do in warhammer is run around bo's and keeps and near wc's and do scenario's. My personal opinion is its not even worth the subscribtion price it asks since there's simply to little to do to call it an mmorpg. MMO maybe but definately not an MMORPG. Personally i see very little possibility of warhammer lasting very long. It might still be a success now but im guessing the near future will see it as a big flop.
Game design simply cannot handle people leaving and accelerates the game into a downward spiral in no time.
warhammer online can only get better with time..at least mythic are honest about their failings. I still think warhammer is more fun to play than wow, so war gets my sub.
PhntmIceA tale int eh Desert CorrespondentMemberUncommonPosts: 16
I am a huge fan of the A Tale in the Desert (ATITD) game. I have played in all 4 tellings to one degree or another. The large diversity of stuff to do, the community, and events. I sometimes spend 8 hours in a single day playing and while exahusted, I am satisfied and proud of what I have accomplished.
ATITD is a niche game though. It is not for ever one and for some people is a little daunting at first. ATITD has a subscription cost of $13.95 and usually has a subscribing base of 1500-2000 players. ATITD makes very small profit but it has a super dedicated group of developers and workers. It over time has proven that a game can be succesful even without huge numbers of WOW.
As an example of the comunity of the game. We have a player who spends almost all her time doing the landscaping of Egypt (ATITD). Recently it came to light she has some health problems and needs a special dog that helps care for her. To the tune of $15,000.00. Teppy, the head developer, introduced to the game a small pet Otter. The lady doing all the landscaping plays a chracter named Otter. For $50 you could purchase a small pet otter, with all the proceeds going to Otter, herself for the dog she needs. They run around were you place them and do little cute movements. In 10 days ATITD players had already raised around $8000 dollars.
I think more than just subscriber numbers and net profit sometimes are not the only deciding factors in wether a game is a success.
A quarter of a million is successful and the game can get along on that but however... one million is HIGHLY successful and such a MMO would get plenty of attention from the devs resulting in frequent updates, patches and expansion packs.
I voted for the half a million or less option because thats quite enough for the game to be considered successful.
But if a MMO had say 800k and lost half of that in a couple of months then I would not be considering that game to be successful.
A lot of people take comfort in knowing that many thousands or millions of other people are playing the same game as themselves. Some people are like sheep and will continue to play a game they might not fully enjoy knowing that there is safety in numbers.
That is just something people say to justify why their choice of mmo doesn't attract more people. Safety in numbers? Safe from what? The whole line of logic that people play game they don't enjoy and do so in masses is nothing more than practicing self deception.
Why everyone works so hard to ignore the obvious is beyond me. People play games they enjoy and quit games they don't. *shrug*
A lot of people take comfort in knowing that many thousands or millions of other people are playing the same game as themselves. Some people are like sheep and will continue to play a game they might not fully enjoy knowing that there is safety in numbers.
That is just something people say to justify why their choice of mmo doesn't attract more people. Safety in numbers? Safe from what? The whole line of logic that people play game they don't enjoy and do so in masses is nothing more than practicing self deception.
Why everyone works so hard to ignore the obvious is beyond me. People play games they enjoy and quit games they don't. *shrug*
its called mob mentality.. and its a part of human nature..
The wow crowd doesnt belong to the rest of the mmo market, since they dont seem to try other MMOs.
Well said
Originally Posted by Maginus00
Well I haven't met anyone in WoW that hasn't tried other MMO's so not sure where your getting your facts. Everyone I know on WoW on a some what personal level has tried several MMO's.
Well Maginus00 I know atleast 4 people who just play WOW and no other mmorpg ( my brother, cousin, and 2 family friends) because they are afraid or dont want to try anything else. Thier excuse is because they either met or know to many people on WOW or they spent so much time on the game they dont want to try anything else because they will feel like they wasted their time on WOW. Alot of WOW players are like that in the sense that they dont want to leave because one or the other.
First quit hateing on wow you must because it brought us great things like leroy jenkins . On the other hand i find the general public of wow to be a younger crowd. (god im getting old)
As to the topic of this question most of what i have read i agree with.
1. Are your players happy?
2. As a developer set a goal be it 100k or 10mil subs dont over hype a 2d mmo in a 3d era.
3. If you make your money back from development your golden this includes all expansions.
4. Are your players happy? Did i mention this?
That is pretty much it if i am happy with the game im going to shell out $15 a month till the cows come home end of story. That is probaly the number 1 thing with WOW the players are happy and that is what matters and as long as they keep cranking out expansions espicaly if there like the last one Litch King rocks btw.
Oh yea if any developers actualy read this put more testing into your beta operations for the love of pete. Nothing turns me off a game faster then haveing to pay to beta test your game something you should have done already.
And yes this is my first post since i joined the fourms 4 or so years ago.
Erm, this isn't exactly rocket science. When Total Revenue = or exceeds Total Cost, the game is a success. This is because the company can afford to keep the game running, which is the whole purpose of creating one.
How many subscribers it takes to turn a profit depends upon what the total costs is for the company (ie. loans, salaries, capital costs, opportunity costs).
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
The wow crowd doesnt belong to the rest of the mmo market, since they dont seem to try other MMOs.
Well said
You sure? Well I am pretty sure that ALOT of WoW players have atleast tried 1 MMo after playing WOW, in hope that they will find a better game. Did they find it? Did you find it? Do i find it?
I, myself I didn't find it and it seems that neither them.
So if you DID found a better game then WoW, name it. Till then, the WoW crowd are a part of MMO players and not just 'WoW MMo Players = WMP".
On topic: I voted first option!
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy? Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
A quarter of a million is successful and the game can get along on that but however... one million is HIGHLY successful and such a MMO would get plenty of attention from the devs resulting in frequent updates, patches and expansion packs.
I voted for the half a million or less option because thats quite enough for the game to be considered successful.
But if a MMO had say 800k and lost half of that in a couple of months then I would not be considering that game to be successful.
Even with loseing more than half its subs the game could still be a success that number only shows it didn't meet what eveyone that bought into expected it to be.
Now if a game like say Shadowbane went from about 20+ server to just a few in 3-4 months then its a failure in my opinion.
maybe i am of a different breed of wow players but because of wow i have tried...CoX, Lort, Eve, War, countless free MMOs, ext.. WoW opened my eyes to the MMO community so i have no problem with wow.
The wow crowd doesnt belong to the rest of the mmo market, since they dont seem to try other MMOs.
Well said
very good post, alot of the WoW player base get so involved in the game, were nothing else matters(this also includes life)
I had never played an mmo before WoW. Today I have played Lotro (and I liked it), EvE (liked that one too) and Warhammer (a dissapointment for me tho).
Erm, this isn't exactly rocket science. When Total Revenue = or exceeds Total Cost, the game is a success. This is because the company can afford to keep the game running, which is the whole purpose of creating one. How many subscribers it takes to turn a profit depends upon what the total costs is for the company (ie. loans, salaries, capital costs, opportunity costs).
This is correct. I think part of the confusion comes from different standards of success though.
- Business
- Personal
- Artistic (From a Game design, graphics, etc. standpoint)
I think all are important and very few MMOs hit all 3. From a business perspective, it IS all about numbers. If you are turning a profit, it's a success. The degree to which you are turning a profit is directly proportional to the degree in which you are considered a success, and the ability your company gets to lure in future investors. The problem with this standard is that is important to pretty much everyone involved except for the people actually playing the game (the subscribers).
From a personal standpoint, If your players aren't happy, and you aren't bringing in enough revenue to make / keep them happy in the future, your game has failed or is failing (from this standpoint). Even if it's a business success, the likelyhood of you maintaining those numbers is low, and you should probably start thinking towards your next project (and learning from your mistakes). The problem with this standard, is that it's very difficult to track, and is generally only important to the subscribers and the developers who are pationate, but not too stuborn to see their flaws. The investors (who are required to get most / all of these games off the ground) could care less.
From an artistic point of view, a game is successful if they propell the genre forward in some fasion, or live up to the current standard set by MMOs before it. This is basically where a lot of the hype comes from, and while it is largely undermined by the investors and the players, is basically a guage for how a game is percieved within it's own community (the game developer's community). I put this one last, because most MMOs have enough trouble meeting the first 2 standards, this 3rd standard rarely gets discussed on any large scale.
- On a side note, I think it's clear that the MMO genre is struggling into the future. I do not think it will dissappear (especially w/ another Blizzard MMO in the works), but with failure after failure being released of the games we look forward to the most, things don't look good. Even with games like LotRO which did a remarkable job, we are seeing a decline in interest (and a diffusion of population amongst more and more MMOs). While many people don't like the idea of 'popular = good', MMOs are the 1 genre in which you need a lot of players for it to be fun. You cannot really enjoy an MMO if there's almost no one playing, and due to their size, the amount of players needed to achieve the feeling of 'popular' seems to be steadily increasing.
The wow crowd doesnt belong to the rest of the mmo market, since they dont seem to try other MMOs.
Well said
I call total and complete bull crap. I have played and completely enjoyed wow...and have also played (in no particular order) UO, EQ2, COH/COV, AO, EvE, Earth and Beyond, Horizons, 2moons, Archlord, Runes of Magic, Rohan, Lineage II and I'm sure I'm forgetting a couple. This is the case with every person I know who enjoys the game. My friends and I have all enjoyed playing different games. The difference with WoW is it is the one game we return to when we get bored with the others.
maybe i am of a different breed of wow players but because of wow i have tried...CoX, Lort, Eve, War, countless free MMOs, ext.. WoW opened my eyes to the MMO community so i have no problem with wow.
Thankyou... You have restored my faith in humanity (and I agree).
Comments
Personally I do not think you can base success on purely subscriptions as if you look at CCP they have about 50K and have grown steady over the last six years and continue to grow daily. They have evolved and to be a success in this current climate you have to provide changing game play which is not boring or repetitive.
Now some may argue that's just what Eve is, but there is a great game in this sandbox universe and while many other game have proved you can make lots of money in the theme park world. I bet that these type of players would find it difficult to play a sandbox game as it needs more skill to play rather than the holding hand games which are about every where.
While I do not mean that to sound derogative the fact that games have become so easy is the reason many more player are playing so they have created more gamers but with less tolerance in games and this could prove to be hard to help these players move into the sandbox games and have fun.
For games to last and evolve in the future they may have to look at ways of providing both a type of theme park and sandbox game to please more in modern games. Personally I can no longer return to a theme park game as I need to play a game to keep my mind active and my hands too.
When developers make games which are not just hit one button to kill or do anything in a game then we will start to see better gaming but that does not guarantee large subscriptions either. the sad this is that so many games have come and gone and not one gaming company has taken all the good bits added new bits and made an evolving sandbox game to date and when someone does who can keep the world active and evolving then they will find a large following for sure.
The modern gaming generation are growing wiser by the day and our demands will need to be met sooner or later and the company who can achieve this will become successful IMHO, they will get the subscriptions they seek and the player base too, but like all good games people will grow old with it quickly unless they find a way of making it remain fresh and newish to the player base.
Bandit.
Asbo
I don't know how many subs EvE has but I think you're off a bit. They hit 50K+ concurrent connections last week so I think the subs are substantially larger.
A lot of people take comfort in knowing that many thousands or millions of other people are playing the same game as themselves. Some people are like sheep and will continue to play a game they might not fully enjoy knowing that there is safety in numbers. For others the simple fact there is a population akin to their partial needs (ie. plenty of other people around) is good enough whether or not overall the game has massive, average or low subs. When it comes down to it it depends on the server you play and that is small percentage of the overall subscriber amount generally speaking for most mmorpg's.
From the list, for me is the last option. So long as the game is generating enough income to support itself and more importantly further developement / enchancement of that game you may pay to play for that is a decent measurement of success, which ultimately boils down to whether it is worth the money or not.
Maybe the poll could of been split up into P2P and F2P as obviously the end choice may have more meaning if your paying for something rather than not?
Hmm, I read somewhere here that the official number is about 250K.
It is the 3rd biggest MMO on X-fire after Wow and Guildwars so 50K can't be true unless almost everyone who plays Eve use X-fire and I kinda doubt it.
I grew up believing it wasn't success just to makes enough income to continue operting. Though is these hard economic times I suppose that not declaring bankruptcy is a success story.
I play LOTRO and EVE online and this subject is always a topic of conversation
bad poll.
number of subscribers required for 'success' is propertional to the development + operating cost.
this is why EVE is regarded as a success, AoC as a failure, and WAR as a moderate flop. the first was made cheaply, while the latter 2 involved tens to hundreds of millions.
A successful game is one that is still being played after a few years of release. Tabula Rasa and Auto Assault were very niche games and the reason tabula rasa failed was probbly down to Richard Garriotts ego being bigger than his game. (also it sucked)
EVE is considered a success because of its sandbox style and replay value and just the interactions between the players .But then eve hasnt done anything major to the game since the release they have tweaked and changed things ever so slighlty updated the engine. made it more stable. BUT they havnt gone ahead and released a patch or expansion that totally turned the game on its head.
WOW is considered a sucess due to the quanity of subscribers BUt i feel world of warcraft has atracted a lot of players who never played other games or are just happy playing wow. if dark age still had the population it had at release i would still be playing that the problem is the population decreased to such a level that the game stopped being fun. also mythic implemented changes which fundementally changed the game from release such as TOA and darkness rising and catacombs.
I feel numbers dont make a game sucessful or not, i think a game is successful when someone can play it straight for 5 years and still enjoy it.
Not paying attention to subscribtion numbers even though for a company subscribtion numbers over a time period means income/profit and therefor could mean success....
When i look at warhammer. All the 'awesome' features they put into this game and arent really being used at all then from my point of view even though subscribtions are enough id say the game is a big failure and i cant see it last for many years to come.
I mean check out its pve. Pve is an empty deserted world, except maybe in tier4 which i never played so far since i see no reason to do so. Its much touted PQ system also stays unused.
Game world design being very wrong. Game lakes being unused all over. Most rvr and class mechanics are disliked. Realm balance issues all over the place thanx to only 2 realms. No long lasting appeal thanx to shared zones and mirrored classes.
The only thing that people do in warhammer is run around bo's and keeps and near wc's and do scenario's. My personal opinion is its not even worth the subscribtion price it asks since there's simply to little to do to call it an mmorpg. MMO maybe but definately not an MMORPG.
Personally i see very little possibility of warhammer lasting very long. It might still be a success now but im guessing the near future will see it as a big flop.
Game design simply cannot handle people leaving and accelerates the game into a downward spiral in no time.
Well said
I'll think you'll find WoW is in fact a springboard to other MMO's for a lot of people. If it wasn't for WoW I wouldn't have tried games like DDO, AoC, EvE, Vanguard, Guild Wars and LOTRO amongst others. Sadly they weren't as good, but at least it made me want to see what else was out there.
and some people played mmo's before wow.
warhammer online can only get better with time..at least mythic are honest about their failings. I still think warhammer is more fun to play than wow, so war gets my sub.
I am a huge fan of the A Tale in the Desert (ATITD) game. I have played in all 4 tellings to one degree or another. The large diversity of stuff to do, the community, and events. I sometimes spend 8 hours in a single day playing and while exahusted, I am satisfied and proud of what I have accomplished.
ATITD is a niche game though. It is not for ever one and for some people is a little daunting at first. ATITD has a subscription cost of $13.95 and usually has a subscribing base of 1500-2000 players. ATITD makes very small profit but it has a super dedicated group of developers and workers. It over time has proven that a game can be succesful even without huge numbers of WOW.
As an example of the comunity of the game. We have a player who spends almost all her time doing the landscaping of Egypt (ATITD). Recently it came to light she has some health problems and needs a special dog that helps care for her. To the tune of $15,000.00. Teppy, the head developer, introduced to the game a small pet Otter. The lady doing all the landscaping plays a chracter named Otter. For $50 you could purchase a small pet otter, with all the proceeds going to Otter, herself for the dog she needs. They run around were you place them and do little cute movements. In 10 days ATITD players had already raised around $8000 dollars.
I think more than just subscriber numbers and net profit sometimes are not the only deciding factors in wether a game is a success.
"Nothing is Impossible, just highly Improbable."
A quarter of a million is successful and the game can get along on that but however... one million is HIGHLY successful and such a MMO would get plenty of attention from the devs resulting in frequent updates, patches and expansion packs.
I voted for the half a million or less option because thats quite enough for the game to be considered successful.
But if a MMO had say 800k and lost half of that in a couple of months then I would not be considering that game to be successful.
That is just something people say to justify why their choice of mmo doesn't attract more people. Safety in numbers? Safe from what? The whole line of logic that people play game they don't enjoy and do so in masses is nothing more than practicing self deception.
Why everyone works so hard to ignore the obvious is beyond me. People play games they enjoy and quit games they don't. *shrug*
That is just something people say to justify why their choice of mmo doesn't attract more people. Safety in numbers? Safe from what? The whole line of logic that people play game they don't enjoy and do so in masses is nothing more than practicing self deception.
Why everyone works so hard to ignore the obvious is beyond me. People play games they enjoy and quit games they don't. *shrug*
its called mob mentality.. and its a part of human nature..
As I see it. MMOG's are a business. As long as the business is afloat then it's a success because it gives you the oppertunity to expand.
Originally posted by Damitman
Originally posted by Kilmar
The wow crowd doesnt belong to the rest of the mmo market, since they dont seem to try other MMOs.
Well said
Originally Posted by Maginus00
Well I haven't met anyone in WoW that hasn't tried other MMO's so not sure where your getting your facts. Everyone I know on WoW on a some what personal level has tried several MMO's.
Well Maginus00 I know atleast 4 people who just play WOW and no other mmorpg ( my brother, cousin, and 2 family friends) because they are afraid or dont want to try anything else. Thier excuse is because they either met or know to many people on WOW or they spent so much time on the game they dont want to try anything else because they will feel like they wasted their time on WOW. Alot of WOW players are like that in the sense that they dont want to leave because one or the other.
First quit hateing on wow you must
because it brought us great things like leroy jenkins 
. On the other hand i find the general public of wow to be a younger crowd. (god im getting old)
As to the topic of this question most of what i have read i agree with.
1. Are your players happy?
2. As a developer set a goal be it 100k or 10mil subs dont over hype a 2d mmo in a 3d era.
3. If you make your money back from development your golden this includes all expansions.
4. Are your players happy? Did i mention this?
That is pretty much it if i am happy with the game im going to shell out $15 a month till the cows come home end of story. That is probaly the number 1 thing with WOW the players are happy and that is what matters and as long as they keep cranking out expansions espicaly if there like the last one Litch King rocks btw.
Oh yea if any developers actualy read this put more testing into your beta operations for the love of pete. Nothing turns me off a game faster then haveing to pay to beta test your game something you should have done already.
And yes this is my first post since i joined the fourms 4 or so years ago.
Erm, this isn't exactly rocket science. When Total Revenue = or exceeds Total Cost, the game is a success. This is because the company can afford to keep the game running, which is the whole purpose of creating one.
How many subscribers it takes to turn a profit depends upon what the total costs is for the company (ie. loans, salaries, capital costs, opportunity costs).
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
Well said
You sure? Well I am pretty sure that ALOT of WoW players have atleast tried 1 MMo after playing WOW, in hope that they will find a better game. Did they find it? Did you find it? Do i find it?
I, myself I didn't find it and it seems that neither them.
So if you DID found a better game then WoW, name it. Till then, the WoW crowd are a part of MMO players and not just 'WoW MMo Players = WMP".
On topic: I voted first option!
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
Even with loseing more than half its subs the game could still be a success that number only shows it didn't meet what eveyone that bought into expected it to be.
Now if a game like say Shadowbane went from about 20+ server to just a few in 3-4 months then its a failure in my opinion.
maybe i am of a different breed of wow players but because of wow i have tried...CoX, Lort, Eve, War, countless free MMOs, ext.. WoW opened my eyes to the MMO community so i have no problem with wow.
Well said
very good post, alot of the WoW player base get so involved in the game, were nothing else matters(this also includes life)
I had never played an mmo before WoW. Today I have played Lotro (and I liked it), EvE (liked that one too) and Warhammer (a dissapointment for me tho).
Now I really looking forward to SWTOR!!
This is correct. I think part of the confusion comes from different standards of success though.
- Business
- Personal
- Artistic (From a Game design, graphics, etc. standpoint)
I think all are important and very few MMOs hit all 3. From a business perspective, it IS all about numbers. If you are turning a profit, it's a success. The degree to which you are turning a profit is directly proportional to the degree in which you are considered a success, and the ability your company gets to lure in future investors. The problem with this standard is that is important to pretty much everyone involved except for the people actually playing the game (the subscribers).
From a personal standpoint, If your players aren't happy, and you aren't bringing in enough revenue to make / keep them happy in the future, your game has failed or is failing (from this standpoint). Even if it's a business success, the likelyhood of you maintaining those numbers is low, and you should probably start thinking towards your next project (and learning from your mistakes). The problem with this standard, is that it's very difficult to track, and is generally only important to the subscribers and the developers who are pationate, but not too stuborn to see their flaws. The investors (who are required to get most / all of these games off the ground) could care less.
From an artistic point of view, a game is successful if they propell the genre forward in some fasion, or live up to the current standard set by MMOs before it. This is basically where a lot of the hype comes from, and while it is largely undermined by the investors and the players, is basically a guage for how a game is percieved within it's own community (the game developer's community). I put this one last, because most MMOs have enough trouble meeting the first 2 standards, this 3rd standard rarely gets discussed on any large scale.
- On a side note, I think it's clear that the MMO genre is struggling into the future. I do not think it will dissappear (especially w/ another Blizzard MMO in the works), but with failure after failure being released of the games we look forward to the most, things don't look good. Even with games like LotRO which did a remarkable job, we are seeing a decline in interest (and a diffusion of population amongst more and more MMOs). While many people don't like the idea of 'popular = good', MMOs are the 1 genre in which you need a lot of players for it to be fun. You cannot really enjoy an MMO if there's almost no one playing, and due to their size, the amount of players needed to achieve the feeling of 'popular' seems to be steadily increasing.
Well said
I call total and complete bull crap. I have played and completely enjoyed wow...and have also played (in no particular order) UO, EQ2, COH/COV, AO, EvE, Earth and Beyond, Horizons, 2moons, Archlord, Runes of Magic, Rohan, Lineage II and I'm sure I'm forgetting a couple. This is the case with every person I know who enjoys the game. My friends and I have all enjoyed playing different games. The difference with WoW is it is the one game we return to when we get bored with the others.
Thankyou... You have restored my faith in humanity (and I agree).