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General: Wind Slayer Interview
Stradden
Managing EditorMember CommonPosts: 6,696
Recently, MMORPG.com's Jon Wood had the opportunity to ask a few questions of the developers of Wind Slayer, a 2D MMO.
MMORPG.com:
Can you tell us some of the story behind Wind Slayer
Wind Slayer:
Wind Slayer is set in the beautiful fantasy world of Beuritania, where players can begin their quest to explore varied locations and battle fierce enemies and boss monsters. We definitely establish an exciting universe and give players just enough backstory and motivation to begin their adventure in Beuritania, but we’re not going to bog down the experience with lots of quest text and narrative – just hop online and start playing!
Embark on a hero’s journey and secure your place in history as one of the land’s greatest adventurers. Defeat monsters and challenging bosses to gain experience and treasure, complete quests that will take you to the farthest reaches of Beuritania, or test your skills against other adventurers in exciting player-versus-player battles. Define your own unique style with hundreds of distinctive in-game items, form mutually-beneficial alliances through a deep mentoring system and much more.
With Wind slayer, our focus is on the PvP experience. PvE content takes a backseat to the action-packed thrills of PvP arena matches, and serves primarily as a way for players to familiarize themselves with the game and hone their skills and abilities in preparation for the ultimate challenge – the PvP arena.
)
Read the Wind Slayer Interview
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
Comments
Yay, another PvP-centric game! /sarcasm
Are there any mmos with a focus on rp'ing? I was just wondering.
What Happened With SWG Went Down YEARS AGO! Please Try To Stop Whining About It In Every Thread I Read. Mourn It, And Finally MOVE ON With Your Lives! Thanks A Heap.
Seed. It's dead now.
Try LOTRO or Ryzom (although there is PVP in those it is avoidable).
Re: Wind Slayer. This game looks extremely close to Maple Story in terms of visuals so I wouldn't say the similarity ended with the fact they are both 2D
But, Maple Story is pretty old and lacks a lot of features so maybe this will be the new 2D king. I don't think there's much room for more than one 2D MMO, it's just too niche.
This game has fail written all over it. Just can't see them attracting the strictly pvp crowd with these cartoony graphics. Better pvp games than this have folded, just don't see this one going anywhere either.
The game is not PvP centric at all. You gain very low XP from PvP and the only way to level up is to PvE. PvP is almost like a mini-game. Only difference though is that you are forced to PvP in order to gain a few points necessary for job advancement. Also, the gameplay isn't so good and the community not so great either. The moment they have low HP they start running away around the maps (extremly hard to aim with spells or melee).
This game only deserve a 3/10.....
Are you completely new to mmos or perhaps just a bit mental?
We currently have virtually no mmos built around PvP. Nearly all of them for the past 10 or more years have revolved around playing against the computer......so what the hell are you talking about?
Its about time we are starting to see mmos finally take advantage of the whole "being online with thousands of people" aspect that generally comes from playing games on the internet. The more PvP games we get to see the better because it means more choice for people rather than being stuck with the stale PvE games we have been seeing for so long. I want to log into a game and face a human opponent in a persistant online world.......not just play against the computer which is no different to a single player game in multiplayer mode.
As for roleplaying.......no there are no mmos which "focus" on roleplaying. There are however LOTS of games which focus on telling you linear stories, killing things and going up levels.......unless you count typing emotes and stories into the chat channel as roleplaying in which case you can "roleplay" in any game. Just take your pick......WoW, LotRO, Vanguard, EQ2, WAR, AoC.......you could even roleplay in Battlefield 2142, Counterstrike, COD4 or any game which has a chat channel. Just log in, type "I am Lord Vordak of the Empire of Landorien. Care for a beverage?" and you are roleplaying lol
Are you completely new to mmos or perhaps just a bit mental?
We currently have virtually no mmos built around PvP. Nearly all of them for the past 10 or more years have revolved around playing against the computer......so what the hell are you talking about?
Its about time we are starting to see mmos finally take advantage of the whole "being online with thousands of people" aspect that generally comes from playing games on the internet. The more PvP games we get to see the better because it means more choice for people rather than being stuck with the stale PvE games we have been seeing for so long. I want to log into a game and face a human opponent in a persistant online world.......not just play against the computer which is no different to a single player game in multiplayer mode.
I shall ask you the same thing. Many games are starting to offer better PvP experience and even PvP oriented games (EVE, WAR etc) and soon there will be even more (DarkFall, Mortal Online, etc) which offers way better graphic quality and gameplay quality. Also, as I said in my previous post, I do not consider WindSlayer has a PvP oriented game. You are forced to PvP in order to gain some points for job advancment but as for the rest you can PvE the whole game as you gain almost no EXP in PvP. Basically, WindSlayer is a mini-game.
Are you completely new to mmos or perhaps just a bit mental?
We currently have virtually no mmos built around PvP. Nearly all of them for the past 10 or more years have revolved around playing against the computer......so what the hell are you talking about?
Its about time we are starting to see mmos finally take advantage of the whole "being online with thousands of people" aspect that generally comes from playing games on the internet. The more PvP games we get to see the better because it means more choice for people rather than being stuck with the stale PvE games we have been seeing for so long. I want to log into a game and face a human opponent in a persistant online world.......not just play against the computer which is no different to a single player game in multiplayer mode.
As for roleplaying.......no there are no mmos which "focus" on roleplaying. There are however LOTS of games which focus on telling you linear stories, killing things and going up levels.......unless you count typing emotes and stories into the chat channel as roleplaying in which case you can "roleplay" in any game. Just take your pick......WoW, LotRO, Vanguard, EQ2, WAR, AoC.......you could even roleplay in Battlefield 2142, Counterstrike, COD4 or any game which has a chat channel. Just log in, type "I am Lord Vordak of the Empire of Landorien. Care for a beverage?" and you are roleplaying lol
I realize it the "cool" thing to do on this site is to come on here and be a jerk to people, but I would just rather you get your jollies at someone else's expense.
Just about ALL [read: ALL] of the mmos I've ever even heard of have PvP in abundance. They have special [epic even] PvP gear that you can only get by [guess how!] PvP'ing! There are sometimes even nerfs that happen to an entire game simply to balance PvP. There are PvP tournaments, cash prizes, "1337" titles, epic PvP mounts, etc.. That all shows a focus towards Player-Versus-Player combat that the gamerz enjoy so much. Now, I understand that some of the games didn't start off with such an emphasis on PvP back in the original designs and that's lead to balance problems, but that's all meaningless. The past couple of years almost all of the mmos are going in a PvP-centric direction. And I get it, many people don't like the PvP options they're given. But that doesn't mean that there are "no mmos built around PvP". It just means there aren't many that the players like/respect/are comfortable with/whatever. They are there.
What there are NOT, are many mmos [read: Any?] with an emphasis on Role-Playing. Not a term you're familiar with, that's okay. Not many people are, these days. The short version is: Role-Playing is what gives the devs ideas for the worlds you're PvP'ing in.
Sorry, I have to cut this short. Real life is calling. We now return you to your regularly schedualed thread.
What Happened With SWG Went Down YEARS AGO! Please Try To Stop Whining About It In Every Thread I Read. Mourn It, And Finally MOVE ON With Your Lives! Thanks A Heap.
Now this looks like the perfect game for those particularly frothing PvP fanatics when Dorkfail inevitably flops.
Mature.
Mature.
QQ more.
Are you completely new to mmos or perhaps just a bit mental?
We currently have virtually no mmos built around PvP. Nearly all of them for the past 10 or more years have revolved around playing against the computer......so what the hell are you talking about?
Its about time we are starting to see mmos finally take advantage of the whole "being online with thousands of people" aspect that generally comes from playing games on the internet. The more PvP games we get to see the better because it means more choice for people rather than being stuck with the stale PvE games we have been seeing for so long. I want to log into a game and face a human opponent in a persistant online world.......not just play against the computer which is no different to a single player game in multiplayer mode.
As for roleplaying.......no there are no mmos which "focus" on roleplaying. There are however LOTS of games which focus on telling you linear stories, killing things and going up levels.......unless you count typing emotes and stories into the chat channel as roleplaying in which case you can "roleplay" in any game. Just take your pick......WoW, LotRO, Vanguard, EQ2, WAR, AoC.......you could even roleplay in Battlefield 2142, Counterstrike, COD4 or any game which has a chat channel. Just log in, type "I am Lord Vordak of the Empire of Landorien. Care for a beverage?" and you are roleplaying lol
I realize it the "cool" thing to do on this site is to come on here and be a jerk to people, but I would just rather you get your jollies at someone else's expense.
Just about ALL [read: ALL] of the mmos I've ever even heard of have PvP in abundance. They have special [epic even] PvP gear that you can only get by [guess how!] PvP'ing! There are sometimes even nerfs that happen to an entire game simply to balance PvP. There are PvP tournaments, cash prizes, "1337" titles, epic PvP mounts, etc.. That all shows a focus towards Player-Versus-Player combat that the gamerz enjoy so much. Now, I understand that some of the games didn't start off with such an emphasis on PvP back in the original designs and that's lead to balance problems, but that's all meaningless. The past couple of years almost all of the mmos are going in a PvP-centric direction. And I get it, many people don't like the PvP options they're given. But that doesn't mean that there are "no mmos built around PvP". It just means there aren't many that the players like/respect/are comfortable with/whatever. They are there.
What there are NOT, are many mmos [read: Any?] with an emphasis on Role-Playing. Not a term you're familiar with, that's okay. Not many people are, these days. The short version is: Role-Playing is what gives the devs ideas for the worlds you're PvP'ing in.
Sorry, I have to cut this short. Real life is calling. We now return you to your regularly schedualed thread.
Sorry about the aggressive tone of my previous post. Its just that I see far too many anti-PvP posts on these forums which always strikes me as silly. Most people just assume that because it hasnt been too successful in mmos so far that it will always be that way.
I agree with what you say though. I would actually love to see a real roleplaying mmo. So far all of them seem to be about killing things and grinding levels and the only option for roleplaying is to pretend you are doing something by typing it into the chat channel......which obviously is a completely seperate activity from the actual game iteself. It would be great to play an mmo where I can create a character and actually roleplay with my actions in the game and have those actions effect things in the game too. For example a game that recognises and reacts to the actions of a druid who has decided to defend the wildlife rather than slay everything simply because the game story says that I should. Ah well one day maybe.
Are you completely new to mmos or perhaps just a bit mental?
We currently have virtually no mmos built around PvP. Nearly all of them for the past 10 or more years have revolved around playing against the computer......so what the hell are you talking about?
Its about time we are starting to see mmos finally take advantage of the whole "being online with thousands of people" aspect that generally comes from playing games on the internet. The more PvP games we get to see the better because it means more choice for people rather than being stuck with the stale PvE games we have been seeing for so long. I want to log into a game and face a human opponent in a persistant online world.......not just play against the computer which is no different to a single player game in multiplayer mode.
As for roleplaying.......no there are no mmos which "focus" on roleplaying. There are however LOTS of games which focus on telling you linear stories, killing things and going up levels.......unless you count typing emotes and stories into the chat channel as roleplaying in which case you can "roleplay" in any game. Just take your pick......WoW, LotRO, Vanguard, EQ2, WAR, AoC.......you could even roleplay in Battlefield 2142, Counterstrike, COD4 or any game which has a chat channel. Just log in, type "I am Lord Vordak of the Empire of Landorien. Care for a beverage?" and you are roleplaying lol
Bravo
Are you completely new to mmos or perhaps just a bit mental?
We currently have virtually no mmos built around PvP. Nearly all of them for the past 10 or more years have revolved around playing against the computer......so what the hell are you talking about?
Its about time we are starting to see mmos finally take advantage of the whole "being online with thousands of people" aspect that generally comes from playing games on the internet. The more PvP games we get to see the better because it means more choice for people rather than being stuck with the stale PvE games we have been seeing for so long. I want to log into a game and face a human opponent in a persistant online world.......not just play against the computer which is no different to a single player game in multiplayer mode.
As for roleplaying.......no there are no mmos which "focus" on roleplaying. There are however LOTS of games which focus on telling you linear stories, killing things and going up levels.......unless you count typing emotes and stories into the chat channel as roleplaying in which case you can "roleplay" in any game. Just take your pick......WoW, LotRO, Vanguard, EQ2, WAR, AoC.......you could even roleplay in Battlefield 2142, Counterstrike, COD4 or any game which has a chat channel. Just log in, type "I am Lord Vordak of the Empire of Landorien. Care for a beverage?" and you are roleplaying lol
I realize it the "cool" thing to do on this site is to come on here and be a jerk to people, but I would just rather you get your jollies at someone else's expense.
Just about ALL [read: ALL] of the mmos I've ever even heard of have PvP in abundance. They have special [epic even] PvP gear that you can only get by [guess how!] PvP'ing! There are sometimes even nerfs that happen to an entire game simply to balance PvP. There are PvP tournaments, cash prizes, "1337" titles, epic PvP mounts, etc.. That all shows a focus towards Player-Versus-Player combat that the gamerz enjoy so much. Now, I understand that some of the games didn't start off with such an emphasis on PvP back in the original designs and that's lead to balance problems, but that's all meaningless. The past couple of years almost all of the mmos are going in a PvP-centric direction. And I get it, many people don't like the PvP options they're given. But that doesn't mean that there are "no mmos built around PvP". It just means there aren't many that the players like/respect/are comfortable with/whatever. They are there.
What there are NOT, are many mmos [read: Any?] with an emphasis on Role-Playing. Not a term you're familiar with, that's okay. Not many people are, these days. The short version is: Role-Playing is what gives the devs ideas for the worlds you're PvP'ing in.
Sorry, I have to cut this short. Real life is calling. We now return you to your regularly schedualed thread.
Sorry about the aggressive tone of my previous post. Its just that I see far too many anti-PvP posts on these forums which always strikes me as silly. Most people just assume that because it hasnt been too successful in mmos so far that it will always be that way.
I agree with what you say though. I would actually love to see a real roleplaying mmo. So far all of them seem to be about killing things and grinding levels and the only option for roleplaying is to pretend you are doing something by typing it into the chat channel......which obviously is a completely seperate activity from the actual game iteself. It would be great to play an mmo where I can create a character and actually roleplay with my actions in the game and have those actions effect things in the game too. For example a game that recognises and reacts to the actions of a druid who has decided to defend the wildlife rather than slay everything simply because the game story says that I should. Ah well one day maybe.
Well, from my brief time on this site it seems to me like most people are very into PvP. All for different reasons, I'm sure. But they're into it or at least looking for a better version of it from somewhere. Hell, that's why Darkfall got people so rabid for it. [And/Or against it] And that's fine. I don't want to deny other people the type of gaming experiences they want. I would just also want a good gaming experience for me.
It drives me nuts whenever people start whining for them to go in a more PvP-"Friendly" direction with Champions Online. I mean, Champions is a ROLE-PLAYING GAME, can't the role-players have that? Just that one? A lot of people who aren't role-players have never even heard of Champions until the mmo was announced. So, they're just looking to play it for a couple of months and then move on like they always do. It would just be nice if maybe the mmos based on role-playing games could be more role-playing oriented. Like the example you gave. That just gets under my skin when I'm playing a Druid in WoW and they give me some idiotic quest to slay 10 bears, or something. I know, I can choose not to do the quests. And depending on how I'm feeling at the time, I give it a judgement call. If the quest give some kind of good "lewt". I may do it. Sure, I feel like a whore for a while afterword, but I'll live. Role-playing is often about compromise, anyway.
I would really love an mmo where they have more "class-based" quests. That doesn't mean I want the mechanics class-based. Just a lot of the quests. For instance: Say you're a Fighter-Type. Then maybe you'll get the opportunity to join the King's Guards. And have a quest-line given specifically from the king himself. Or maybe you'll get hired to stop a rampaging beast from destroying a town. Or a stealthy character to be hired to steal something important. Or they could be hired to infiltrate "the enemy" and get them to trust you. So then you have to do quests for "the enemy", and once they begin to trust you you can do more important quest-lines and then you sabotage their operation! Something that'd make a real impact. Or as the Druid from our previous examples, imagine if all of the druids [characters and npcs] in WoW turned against both factions? The Horde are constantly using deforestation tactics. The Undead are poisoning everything they come across. The Dwarves of the Alliance are constantly mining, and tearing up the land wherever they go all in the name of "progress". Why would the Druids stand for it? They should try and sabotage them all. Sure, they can't expect to win in a straight-up war. But they'd know that. And they'd use gorilla-tactics. And I think the rest of the Night Elves would join them. That'd make things more interesting!
I'd simply LOVE a game like that. A dynamic game that closer mirrors my pencil & paper role-playing games. I wouldn't care what setting. It could be a sword & sorcery game, or a super hero game. I don't care, as long as it's good. That's why I am so looking forward to Champions Online. I know nothing about World of Darkness Online, but I am certainly looking forward to that as well!
I would say nearly all of the games that are coming out will have significant PvP aspects to them. And I'm betting a few will even be able to come up with improvements and innovations to the way things are done. And that's great. I am one of the people looking forward to Darkfall. And I wish it success. I haven't been drinking any Kool-Aid, I know damn well that game isn't for me. And that's fine. I hope it does well for the gamers who have been looking forward to it. I don't mind the existance of games that are full-on PvP free-for-alls. And ever since learning of it being possible to hire guards and outfit them as if they're characters and have them escort you around and just playing a merchant. That idea intrigued me. So, maybe some time after the game comes out and find its legs, I might try that. [If I read on here that it is indeed "do-able"] If it's too hard that way, maybe with the guard AI not being up to snuff or whatever. Then I'll leave it. No cries for "nerfs". No "good-bye" threads. No bashing the game on the internet. I'll just stop playing the game if it's not meant for me. I did the same thing with Ever Quest 2, The Matrix Online and Star Wars Galaxies. And never once did I ever come on here and bash those games. People like those games. That's great. And I kinda had fun in all of them, they just weren't for me. Just like I hope games like Darkfall succeed. I just also want one or two games out there more suited to my tastes. I feel my $15 is just as good as anybody elses'.
What Happened With SWG Went Down YEARS AGO! Please Try To Stop Whining About It In Every Thread I Read. Mourn It, And Finally MOVE ON With Your Lives! Thanks A Heap.
Are you completely new to mmos or perhaps just a bit mental?
We currently have virtually no mmos built around PvP. Nearly all of them for the past 10 or more years have revolved around playing against the computer......so what the hell are you talking about?
Its about time we are starting to see mmos finally take advantage of the whole "being online with thousands of people" aspect that generally comes from playing games on the internet. The more PvP games we get to see the better because it means more choice for people rather than being stuck with the stale PvE games we have been seeing for so long. I want to log into a game and face a human opponent in a persistant online world.......not just play against the computer which is no different to a single player game in multiplayer mode.
As for roleplaying.......no there are no mmos which "focus" on roleplaying. There are however LOTS of games which focus on telling you linear stories, killing things and going up levels.......unless you count typing emotes and stories into the chat channel as roleplaying in which case you can "roleplay" in any game. Just take your pick......WoW, LotRO, Vanguard, EQ2, WAR, AoC.......you could even roleplay in Battlefield 2142, Counterstrike, COD4 or any game which has a chat channel. Just log in, type "I am Lord Vordak of the Empire of Landorien. Care for a beverage?" and you are roleplaying lol
I realize it the "cool" thing to do on this site is to come on here and be a jerk to people, but I would just rather you get your jollies at someone else's expense.
Just about ALL [read: ALL] of the mmos I've ever even heard of have PvP in abundance. They have special [epic even] PvP gear that you can only get by [guess how!] PvP'ing! There are sometimes even nerfs that happen to an entire game simply to balance PvP. There are PvP tournaments, cash prizes, "1337" titles, epic PvP mounts, etc.. That all shows a focus towards Player-Versus-Player combat that the gamerz enjoy so much. Now, I understand that some of the games didn't start off with such an emphasis on PvP back in the original designs and that's lead to balance problems, but that's all meaningless. The past couple of years almost all of the mmos are going in a PvP-centric direction. And I get it, many people don't like the PvP options they're given. But that doesn't mean that there are "no mmos built around PvP". It just means there aren't many that the players like/respect/are comfortable with/whatever. They are there.
What there are NOT, are many mmos [read: Any?] with an emphasis on Role-Playing. Not a term you're familiar with, that's okay. Not many people are, these days. The short version is: Role-Playing is what gives the devs ideas for the worlds you're PvP'ing in.
Sorry, I have to cut this short. Real life is calling. We now return you to your regularly schedualed thread.
Sorry about the aggressive tone of my previous post. Its just that I see far too many anti-PvP posts on these forums which always strikes me as silly. Most people just assume that because it hasnt been too successful in mmos so far that it will always be that way.
I agree with what you say though. I would actually love to see a real roleplaying mmo. So far all of them seem to be about killing things and grinding levels and the only option for roleplaying is to pretend you are doing something by typing it into the chat channel......which obviously is a completely seperate activity from the actual game iteself. It would be great to play an mmo where I can create a character and actually roleplay with my actions in the game and have those actions effect things in the game too. For example a game that recognises and reacts to the actions of a druid who has decided to defend the wildlife rather than slay everything simply because the game story says that I should. Ah well one day maybe.
Well, from my brief time on this site it seems to me like most people are very into PvP. All for different reasons, I'm sure. But they're into it or at least looking for a better version of it from somewhere. Hell, that's why Darkfall got people so rabid for it. [And/Or against it] And that's fine. I don't want to deny other people the type of gaming experiences they want. I would just also want a good gaming experience for me.
It drives me nuts whenever people start whining for them to go in a more PvP-"Friendly" direction with Champions Online. I mean, Champions is a ROLE-PLAYING GAME, can't the role-players have that? Just that one? A lot of people who aren't role-players have never even heard of Champions until the mmo was announced. So, they're just looking to play it for a couple of months and then move on like they always do. It would just be nice if maybe the mmos based on role-playing games could be more role-playing oriented. Like the example you gave. That just gets under my skin when I'm playing a Druid in WoW and they give me some idiotic quest to slay 10 bears, or something. I know, I can choose not to do the quests. And depending on how I'm feeling at the time, I give it a judgement call. If the quest give some kind of good "lewt". I may do it. Sure, I feel like a whore for a while afterword, but I'll live. Role-playing is often about compromise, anyway.
I would really love an mmo where they have more "class-based" quests. That doesn't mean I want the mechanics class-based. Just a lot of the quests. For instance: Say you're a Fighter-Type. Then maybe you'll get the opportunity to join the King's Guards. And have a quest-line given specifically from the king himself. Or maybe you'll get hired to stop a rampaging beast from destroying a town. Or a stealthy character to be hired to steal something important. Or they could be hired to infiltrate "the enemy" and get them to trust you. So then you have to do quests for "the enemy", and once they begin to trust you you can do more important quest-lines and then you sabotage their operation! Something that'd make a real impact. Or as the Druid from our previous examples, imagine if all of the druids [characters and npcs] in WoW turned against both factions? The Horde are constantly using deforestation tactics. The Undead are poisoning everything they come across. The Dwarves of the Alliance are constantly mining, and tearing up the land wherever they go all in the name of "progress". Why would the Druids stand for it? They should try and sabotage them all. Sure, they can't expect to win in a straight-up war. But they'd know that. And they'd use gorilla-tactics. And I think the rest of the Night Elves would join them. That'd make things more interesting!
I'd simply LOVE a game like that. A dynamic game that closer mirrors my pencil & paper role-playing games. I wouldn't care what setting. It could be a sword & sorcery game, or a super hero game. I don't care, as long as it's good. That's why I am so looking forward to Champions Online. I know nothing about World of Darkness Online, but I am certainly looking forward to that as well!
I would say nearly all of the games that are coming out will have significant PvP aspects to them. And I'm betting a few will even be able to come up with improvements and innovations to the way things are done. And that's great. I am one of the people looking forward to Darkfall. And I wish it success. I haven't been drinking any Kool-Aid, I know damn well that game isn't for me. And that's fine. I hope it does well for the gamers who have been looking forward to it. I don't mind the existance of games that are full-on PvP free-for-alls. And ever since learning of it being possible to hire guards and outfit them as if they're characters and have them escort you around and just playing a merchant. That idea intrigued me. So, maybe some time after the game comes out and find its legs, I might try that. [If I read on here that it is indeed "do-able"] If it's too hard that way, maybe with the guard AI not being up to snuff or whatever. Then I'll leave it. No cries for "nerfs". No "good-bye" threads. No bashing the game on the internet. I'll just stop playing the game if it's not meant for me. I did the same thing with Ever Quest 2, The Matrix Online and Star Wars Galaxies. And never once did I ever come on here and bash those games. People like those games. That's great. And I kinda had fun in all of them, they just weren't for me. Just like I hope games like Darkfall succeed. I just also want one or two games out there more suited to my tastes. I feel my $15 is just as good as anybody elses'.
Those are some very good points. I like the way you think sir. However I get the impression from what you typed that you seem to view PvP as a seperate activity to roleplaying which doesnt make any sense to me.......thats assuming I read it correctly.
You mentioned Champions Online. I actually went on a mega rant in a thread on its forum recently. Basicly its a game about superheroes fighting supervillains and yet people are complaining about the fact that it has PvP in it. WTF?!! Heroes and villains always battle against each other so why would anyone NOT want to be able to do that? Utterly crazy!!! How is it possible for people to roleplay properly if the game doesnt allow the players to fight each other? You cant have a proper roleplaying game if silly restrictions are put in place simply to protect peoples over sensitive feelings. "Controlled" PvP is a required component of a true roleplaying game.......otherwise your actions are completely meaningless and you are nothing more than a bystander in someone elses story.
In any game which allows a player to play the part of a good or bad guy, they have to have the freedom to make decisions and roleplay them out with their actions. If the game prevents them from doing this then we are back to square one where people are forced to resort to "pretending" that they are doing things (typing made up nonsense in the chat channel) as opposed to "actually" doing things. If the game I am playing tells me that I cannot do something simply because the game mechanics are not in place to allow it to happen then that is a restriction which stops me from roleplaying my character. That really sucks.
Its because of all of these restrictions in mmos that I gave up roleplaying in online games ages ago. I still slip into a bit of character banter sometimes but thats as far as it goes. Anything else is a complete waste of time as it has nothing to do with the game itself. It might be fun for someone to pretend to be doing something which they clearly arent doing......but......if I pay money for a game then I like to actually play that game and if it doesnt cater to what a person truly wants then why pretend that it does? It makes more sense to me to just accept the fact that the game doesnt cater to proper roleplaying. Its all very well typing the words "I sneak into the stables and steal Lord Volmors horse" but if it doesnt actually happen in the game then it simply doesnt happen full stop. That player isnt actually playing the game they paid for.
When I talk about PvP by the way I am not simply referring to a giant free-for-all where everyone just runs around killing each other with no consequences. A good roleplaying game would allow its players to do anything that they're character should realistically be able to do but would also have real serious consequences for their actions.......and I dont just mean a silly hit to a faction rating or some useless temporary negative effect. This would require a lot of hard work though for the devs which is why we have not really seen it in any mmos yet.......but its totally possible. It would however require the death of the linear storylines we have been seeing in games because as long as games tell people stories then the players will never be able to tell their own stories through their roleplaying actions. What would work though would be if a game was broken up into LOTS of interconnected story sections which effected each other dynamicly.
So for example you have an area of forest in a game which can be in various "states" and a different theme unfolds dependant on that state. If lots of the wildlife gets repeatedly killed in the forest due to certain quests being undertaken and players just generally hunting them for skins or sport then the quests in the area will change to reflect that. Evil creatures might rise up to corrupt the forest and a group of npc druids deep in the forest will ask players to defeat them. Opposing players who have accepted quests from elsewhere to slay the wildlife would also become enemy targets too for players who are protecting the forest. In this way PvP would get implemented into a game in a meaningful and realistic way. Once enough evil creatures or opposing players in the area have been defeated then eventually a "switch" will be flicked and the "state" of the forest will change to a healthier state. Maybe the npc druids will gain the power to protect the forest, the evil creatures would go back into hiding and the opposing players quest to kill the animals in the forest will change to a "failure state" in which they have to return to the quest giver and report they're failure (an alternate ending to the quest). Eventually some other actions will cause the forest to "flip back" into this state again.
In this way players will be constantly changing the state of the game world by flicking invisible "switches" that alter the "states" of each area.......which in turn changes the quests in each area and elsewhere. You end up with a dynamic changing world and a TRUE roleplaying game where you're actions really do count for something. Also the game will always be different each time you play. Goodbye rigid linear story. Goodbye boring static gameworld.
Currently all we have ever seen is games which tell us stories which are static and unchangeable. The story is the same for every single person who plays it. Nothing ever changes and the actions of the players dont mean anything at all. These are not roleplaying games as you cannot choose to do anything other than follow the script that the devs have decided for you. It doesnt matter if you want to be a kind druid, an evil necromancer or an uncaring rogue. You will simply do what the devs have planned out for you along with everyone else in exactly the same way as everyone else. Until this changes we will never see a true roleplaying computer game.
Oh and as for Darkfall as far as I know they removed the option to have your own npc guards I'm afraid (as far as I know anyway). Basicly you can make things and kill players and monsters. Thats all.
Are you completely new to mmos or perhaps just a bit mental?
We currently have virtually no mmos built around PvP. Nearly all of them for the past 10 or more years have revolved around playing against the computer......so what the hell are you talking about?
Its about time we are starting to see mmos finally take advantage of the whole "being online with thousands of people" aspect that generally comes from playing games on the internet. The more PvP games we get to see the better because it means more choice for people rather than being stuck with the stale PvE games we have been seeing for so long. I want to log into a game and face a human opponent in a persistant online world.......not just play against the computer which is no different to a single player game in multiplayer mode.
As for roleplaying.......no there are no mmos which "focus" on roleplaying. There are however LOTS of games which focus on telling you linear stories, killing things and going up levels.......unless you count typing emotes and stories into the chat channel as roleplaying in which case you can "roleplay" in any game. Just take your pick......WoW, LotRO, Vanguard, EQ2, WAR, AoC.......you could even roleplay in Battlefield 2142, Counterstrike, COD4 or any game which has a chat channel. Just log in, type "I am Lord Vordak of the Empire of Landorien. Care for a beverage?" and you are roleplaying lol
I realize it the "cool" thing to do on this site is to come on here and be a jerk to people, but I would just rather you get your jollies at someone else's expense.
Just about ALL [read: ALL] of the mmos I've ever even heard of have PvP in abundance. They have special [epic even] PvP gear that you can only get by [guess how!] PvP'ing! There are sometimes even nerfs that happen to an entire game simply to balance PvP. There are PvP tournaments, cash prizes, "1337" titles, epic PvP mounts, etc.. That all shows a focus towards Player-Versus-Player combat that the gamerz enjoy so much. Now, I understand that some of the games didn't start off with such an emphasis on PvP back in the original designs and that's lead to balance problems, but that's all meaningless. The past couple of years almost all of the mmos are going in a PvP-centric direction. And I get it, many people don't like the PvP options they're given. But that doesn't mean that there are "no mmos built around PvP". It just means there aren't many that the players like/respect/are comfortable with/whatever. They are there.
What there are NOT, are many mmos [read: Any?] with an emphasis on Role-Playing. Not a term you're familiar with, that's okay. Not many people are, these days. The short version is: Role-Playing is what gives the devs ideas for the worlds you're PvP'ing in.
Sorry, I have to cut this short. Real life is calling. We now return you to your regularly schedualed thread.
Sorry about the aggressive tone of my previous post. Its just that I see far too many anti-PvP posts on these forums which always strikes me as silly. Most people just assume that because it hasnt been too successful in mmos so far that it will always be that way.
I agree with what you say though. I would actually love to see a real roleplaying mmo. So far all of them seem to be about killing things and grinding levels and the only option for roleplaying is to pretend you are doing something by typing it into the chat channel......which obviously is a completely seperate activity from the actual game iteself. It would be great to play an mmo where I can create a character and actually roleplay with my actions in the game and have those actions effect things in the game too. For example a game that recognises and reacts to the actions of a druid who has decided to defend the wildlife rather than slay everything simply because the game story says that I should. Ah well one day maybe.
Well, from my brief time on this site it seems to me like most people are very into PvP. All for different reasons, I'm sure. But they're into it or at least looking for a better version of it from somewhere. Hell, that's why Darkfall got people so rabid for it. [And/Or against it] And that's fine. I don't want to deny other people the type of gaming experiences they want. I would just also want a good gaming experience for me.
It drives me nuts whenever people start whining for them to go in a more PvP-"Friendly" direction with Champions Online. I mean, Champions is a ROLE-PLAYING GAME, can't the role-players have that? Just that one? A lot of people who aren't role-players have never even heard of Champions until the mmo was announced. So, they're just looking to play it for a couple of months and then move on like they always do. It would just be nice if maybe the mmos based on role-playing games could be more role-playing oriented. Like the example you gave. That just gets under my skin when I'm playing a Druid in WoW and they give me some idiotic quest to slay 10 bears, or something. I know, I can choose not to do the quests. And depending on how I'm feeling at the time, I give it a judgement call. If the quest give some kind of good "lewt". I may do it. Sure, I feel like a whore for a while afterword, but I'll live. Role-playing is often about compromise, anyway.
I would really love an mmo where they have more "class-based" quests. That doesn't mean I want the mechanics class-based. Just a lot of the quests. For instance: Say you're a Fighter-Type. Then maybe you'll get the opportunity to join the King's Guards. And have a quest-line given specifically from the king himself. Or maybe you'll get hired to stop a rampaging beast from destroying a town. Or a stealthy character to be hired to steal something important. Or they could be hired to infiltrate "the enemy" and get them to trust you. So then you have to do quests for "the enemy", and once they begin to trust you you can do more important quest-lines and then you sabotage their operation! Something that'd make a real impact. Or as the Druid from our previous examples, imagine if all of the druids [characters and npcs] in WoW turned against both factions? The Horde are constantly using deforestation tactics. The Undead are poisoning everything they come across. The Dwarves of the Alliance are constantly mining, and tearing up the land wherever they go all in the name of "progress". Why would the Druids stand for it? They should try and sabotage them all. Sure, they can't expect to win in a straight-up war. But they'd know that. And they'd use gorilla-tactics. And I think the rest of the Night Elves would join them. That'd make things more interesting!
I'd simply LOVE a game like that. A dynamic game that closer mirrors my pencil & paper role-playing games. I wouldn't care what setting. It could be a sword & sorcery game, or a super hero game. I don't care, as long as it's good. That's why I am so looking forward to Champions Online. I know nothing about World of Darkness Online, but I am certainly looking forward to that as well!
I would say nearly all of the games that are coming out will have significant PvP aspects to them. And I'm betting a few will even be able to come up with improvements and innovations to the way things are done. And that's great. I am one of the people looking forward to Darkfall. And I wish it success. I haven't been drinking any Kool-Aid, I know damn well that game isn't for me. And that's fine. I hope it does well for the gamers who have been looking forward to it. I don't mind the existance of games that are full-on PvP free-for-alls. And ever since learning of it being possible to hire guards and outfit them as if they're characters and have them escort you around and just playing a merchant. That idea intrigued me. So, maybe some time after the game comes out and find its legs, I might try that. [If I read on here that it is indeed "do-able"] If it's too hard that way, maybe with the guard AI not being up to snuff or whatever. Then I'll leave it. No cries for "nerfs". No "good-bye" threads. No bashing the game on the internet. I'll just stop playing the game if it's not meant for me. I did the same thing with Ever Quest 2, The Matrix Online and Star Wars Galaxies. And never once did I ever come on here and bash those games. People like those games. That's great. And I kinda had fun in all of them, they just weren't for me. Just like I hope games like Darkfall succeed. I just also want one or two games out there more suited to my tastes. I feel my $15 is just as good as anybody elses'.
Those are some very good points. I like the way you think sir. However I get the impression from what you typed that you seem to view PvP as a seperate activity to roleplaying which doesnt make any sense to me.......thats assuming I read it correctly.
You mentioned Champions Online. I actually went on a mega rant in a thread on its forum recently. Basicly its a game about superheroes fighting supervillains and yet people are complaining about the fact that it has PvP in it. WTF?!! Heroes and villains always battle against each other so why would anyone NOT want to be able to do that? Utterly crazy!!! How is it possible for people to roleplay properly if the game doesnt allow the players to fight each other? You cant have a proper roleplaying game if silly restrictions are put in place simply to protect peoples over sensitive feelings. "Controlled" PvP is a required component of a true roleplaying game.......otherwise your actions are completely meaningless and you are nothing more than a bystander in someone elses story.
In any game which allows a player to play the part of a good or bad guy, they have to have the freedom to make decisions and roleplay them out with their actions. If the game prevents them from doing this then we are back to square one where people are forced to resort to "pretending" that they are doing things (typing made up nonsense in the chat channel) as opposed to "actually" doing things. If the game I am playing tells me that I cannot do something simply because the game mechanics are not in place to allow it to happen then that is a restriction which stops me from roleplaying my character. That really sucks.
Its because of all of these restrictions in mmos that I gave up roleplaying in online games ages ago. I still slip into a bit of character banter sometimes but thats as far as it goes. Anything else is a complete waste of time as it has nothing to do with the game itself. It might be fun for someone to pretend to be doing something which they clearly arent doing......but......if I pay money for a game then I like to actually play that game and if it doesnt cater to what a person truly wants then why pretend that it does? It makes more sense to me to just accept the fact that the game doesnt cater to proper roleplaying. Its all very well typing the words "I sneak into the stables and steal Lord Volmors horse" but if it doesnt actually happen in the game then it simply doesnt happen full stop. That player isnt actually playing the game they paid for.
When I talk about PvP by the way I am not simply referring to a giant free-for-all where everyone just runs around killing each other with no consequences. A good roleplaying game would allow its players to do anything that they're character should realistically be able to do but would also have real serious consequences for their actions.......and I dont just mean a silly hit to a faction rating or some useless temporary negative effect. This would require a lot of hard work though for the devs which is why we have not really seen it in any mmos yet.......but its totally possible. It would however require the death of the linear storylines we have been seeing in games because as long as games tell people stories then the players will never be able to tell their own stories through their roleplaying actions. What would work though would be if a game was broken up into LOTS of interconnected story sections which effected each other dynamicly.
So for example you have an area of forest in a game which can be in various "states" and a different theme unfolds dependant on that state. If lots of the wildlife gets repeatedly killed in the forest due to certain quests being undertaken and players just generally hunting them for skins or sport then the quests in the area will change to reflect that. Evil creatures might rise up to corrupt the forest and a group of npc druids deep in the forest will ask players to defeat them. Opposing players who have accepted quests from elsewhere to slay the wildlife would also become enemy targets too for players who are protecting the forest. In this way PvP would get implemented into a game in a meaningful and realistic way. Once enough evil creatures or opposing players in the area have been defeated then eventually a "switch" will be flicked and the "state" of the forest will change to a healthier state. Maybe the npc druids will gain the power to protect the forest, the evil creatures would go back into hiding and the opposing players quest to kill the animals in the forest will change to a "failure state" in which they have to return to the quest giver and report they're failure (an alternate ending to the quest). Eventually some other actions will cause the forest to "flip back" into this state again.
In this way players will be constantly changing the state of the game world by flicking invisible "switches" that alter the "states" of each area.......which in turn changes the quests in each area and elsewhere. You end up with a dynamic changing world and a TRUE roleplaying game where you're actions really do count for something. Also the game will always be different each time you play. Goodbye rigid linear story. Goodbye boring static gameworld.
Currently all we have ever seen is games which tell us stories which are static and unchangeable. The story is the same for every single person who plays it. Nothing ever changes and the actions of the players dont mean anything at all. These are not roleplaying games as you cannot choose to do anything other than follow the script that the devs have decided for you. It doesnt matter if you want to be a kind druid, an evil necromancer or an uncaring rogue. You will simply do what the devs have planned out for you along with everyone else in exactly the same way as everyone else. Until this changes we will never see a true roleplaying computer game.
Oh and as for Darkfall as far as I know they removed the option to have your own npc guards I'm afraid (as far as I know anyway). Basicly you can make things and kill players and monsters. Thats all.
Right from the beginning of your post, you miss the point of role-playing games. Role-playing games really ARE about peoples' overly sensitive feelings! True Role-playing is about characters and characterization. And hell, that's also what comic books are about! That's why they have the inner monologues in the comics, so you get a better "feel" for the character. In true role-playing games, it's a characters personality that makes him or her different than a character of a similar style. In Dungeons & Dragons, for instance, [class based stuff is just easier to use for examples] the way you can tell two mages apart aside from who's playing the character are their personalities. In Champions, it's not about 'See the villain, punch the villain in the face'! It's about interaction. The way the characters on a super team interact with one another. Does one character brood when he's not out fighting crime, or does he hang out with his teammates and try to bond with them? Do the teammates even know each others "secret identities"? Do the hero and villain know each other? They might have been former lovers, now on opposite sides of the law. Or perhaps they're father and son on differing sides of a political war? Or hell, maybe they were both part of The Weapon X program? Every nuance can change the dynamic of the story and the interaction between the characters. And that's where the fun comes in.
And all role-playing games have a person who runs the game. They're called the "Dungeon Master", or the "Game Master" or the "Referee". It doesn't matter what they're called, the point is, they come up with the story. Essentially, you start out as a "bystander in some else's story". They make up the story, so you don't have to. You can focus on playing your character. And it's your job -- your job as the character -- to breathe life into it, and make the character something more. Then you work WITH the person running the game [and the other players] to create dynamic situations and exciting scenes.
I have more to say, but life seems to come calling every time I go to sit down at the computer. So, I'll just post this, for now.
What Happened With SWG Went Down YEARS AGO! Please Try To Stop Whining About It In Every Thread I Read. Mourn It, And Finally MOVE ON With Your Lives! Thanks A Heap.
Are you completely new to mmos or perhaps just a bit mental?
We currently have virtually no mmos built around PvP. Nearly all of them for the past 10 or more years have revolved around playing against the computer......so what the hell are you talking about?
Its about time we are starting to see mmos finally take advantage of the whole "being online with thousands of people" aspect that generally comes from playing games on the internet. The more PvP games we get to see the better because it means more choice for people rather than being stuck with the stale PvE games we have been seeing for so long. I want to log into a game and face a human opponent in a persistant online world.......not just play against the computer which is no different to a single player game in multiplayer mode.
As for roleplaying.......no there are no mmos which "focus" on roleplaying. There are however LOTS of games which focus on telling you linear stories, killing things and going up levels.......unless you count typing emotes and stories into the chat channel as roleplaying in which case you can "roleplay" in any game. Just take your pick......WoW, LotRO, Vanguard, EQ2, WAR, AoC.......you could even roleplay in Battlefield 2142, Counterstrike, COD4 or any game which has a chat channel. Just log in, type "I am Lord Vordak of the Empire of Landorien. Care for a beverage?" and you are roleplaying lol
I realize it the "cool" thing to do on this site is to come on here and be a jerk to people, but I would just rather you get your jollies at someone else's expense.
Just about ALL [read: ALL] of the mmos I've ever even heard of have PvP in abundance. They have special [epic even] PvP gear that you can only get by [guess how!] PvP'ing! There are sometimes even nerfs that happen to an entire game simply to balance PvP. There are PvP tournaments, cash prizes, "1337" titles, epic PvP mounts, etc.. That all shows a focus towards Player-Versus-Player combat that the gamerz enjoy so much. Now, I understand that some of the games didn't start off with such an emphasis on PvP back in the original designs and that's lead to balance problems, but that's all meaningless. The past couple of years almost all of the mmos are going in a PvP-centric direction. And I get it, many people don't like the PvP options they're given. But that doesn't mean that there are "no mmos built around PvP". It just means there aren't many that the players like/respect/are comfortable with/whatever. They are there.
What there are NOT, are many mmos [read: Any?] with an emphasis on Role-Playing. Not a term you're familiar with, that's okay. Not many people are, these days. The short version is: Role-Playing is what gives the devs ideas for the worlds you're PvP'ing in.
Sorry, I have to cut this short. Real life is calling. We now return you to your regularly schedualed thread.
Sorry about the aggressive tone of my previous post. Its just that I see far too many anti-PvP posts on these forums which always strikes me as silly. Most people just assume that because it hasnt been too successful in mmos so far that it will always be that way.
I agree with what you say though. I would actually love to see a real roleplaying mmo. So far all of them seem to be about killing things and grinding levels and the only option for roleplaying is to pretend you are doing something by typing it into the chat channel......which obviously is a completely seperate activity from the actual game iteself. It would be great to play an mmo where I can create a character and actually roleplay with my actions in the game and have those actions effect things in the game too. For example a game that recognises and reacts to the actions of a druid who has decided to defend the wildlife rather than slay everything simply because the game story says that I should. Ah well one day maybe.
Well, from my brief time on this site it seems to me like most people are very into PvP. All for different reasons, I'm sure. But they're into it or at least looking for a better version of it from somewhere. Hell, that's why Darkfall got people so rabid for it. [And/Or against it] And that's fine. I don't want to deny other people the type of gaming experiences they want. I would just also want a good gaming experience for me.
It drives me nuts whenever people start whining for them to go in a more PvP-"Friendly" direction with Champions Online. I mean, Champions is a ROLE-PLAYING GAME, can't the role-players have that? Just that one? A lot of people who aren't role-players have never even heard of Champions until the mmo was announced. So, they're just looking to play it for a couple of months and then move on like they always do. It would just be nice if maybe the mmos based on role-playing games could be more role-playing oriented. Like the example you gave. That just gets under my skin when I'm playing a Druid in WoW and they give me some idiotic quest to slay 10 bears, or something. I know, I can choose not to do the quests. And depending on how I'm feeling at the time, I give it a judgement call. If the quest give some kind of good "lewt". I may do it. Sure, I feel like a whore for a while afterword, but I'll live. Role-playing is often about compromise, anyway.
I would really love an mmo where they have more "class-based" quests. That doesn't mean I want the mechanics class-based. Just a lot of the quests. For instance: Say you're a Fighter-Type. Then maybe you'll get the opportunity to join the King's Guards. And have a quest-line given specifically from the king himself. Or maybe you'll get hired to stop a rampaging beast from destroying a town. Or a stealthy character to be hired to steal something important. Or they could be hired to infiltrate "the enemy" and get them to trust you. So then you have to do quests for "the enemy", and once they begin to trust you you can do more important quest-lines and then you sabotage their operation! Something that'd make a real impact. Or as the Druid from our previous examples, imagine if all of the druids [characters and npcs] in WoW turned against both factions? The Horde are constantly using deforestation tactics. The Undead are poisoning everything they come across. The Dwarves of the Alliance are constantly mining, and tearing up the land wherever they go all in the name of "progress". Why would the Druids stand for it? They should try and sabotage them all. Sure, they can't expect to win in a straight-up war. But they'd know that. And they'd use gorilla-tactics. And I think the rest of the Night Elves would join them. That'd make things more interesting!
I'd simply LOVE a game like that. A dynamic game that closer mirrors my pencil & paper role-playing games. I wouldn't care what setting. It could be a sword & sorcery game, or a super hero game. I don't care, as long as it's good. That's why I am so looking forward to Champions Online. I know nothing about World of Darkness Online, but I am certainly looking forward to that as well!
I would say nearly all of the games that are coming out will have significant PvP aspects to them. And I'm betting a few will even be able to come up with improvements and innovations to the way things are done. And that's great. I am one of the people looking forward to Darkfall. And I wish it success. I haven't been drinking any Kool-Aid, I know damn well that game isn't for me. And that's fine. I hope it does well for the gamers who have been looking forward to it. I don't mind the existance of games that are full-on PvP free-for-alls. And ever since learning of it being possible to hire guards and outfit them as if they're characters and have them escort you around and just playing a merchant. That idea intrigued me. So, maybe some time after the game comes out and find its legs, I might try that. [If I read on here that it is indeed "do-able"] If it's too hard that way, maybe with the guard AI not being up to snuff or whatever. Then I'll leave it. No cries for "nerfs". No "good-bye" threads. No bashing the game on the internet. I'll just stop playing the game if it's not meant for me. I did the same thing with Ever Quest 2, The Matrix Online and Star Wars Galaxies. And never once did I ever come on here and bash those games. People like those games. That's great. And I kinda had fun in all of them, they just weren't for me. Just like I hope games like Darkfall succeed. I just also want one or two games out there more suited to my tastes. I feel my $15 is just as good as anybody elses'.
Those are some very good points. I like the way you think sir. However I get the impression from what you typed that you seem to view PvP as a seperate activity to roleplaying which doesnt make any sense to me.......thats assuming I read it correctly.
You mentioned Champions Online. I actually went on a mega rant in a thread on its forum recently. Basicly its a game about superheroes fighting supervillains and yet people are complaining about the fact that it has PvP in it. WTF?!! Heroes and villains always battle against each other so why would anyone NOT want to be able to do that? Utterly crazy!!! How is it possible for people to roleplay properly if the game doesnt allow the players to fight each other? You cant have a proper roleplaying game if silly restrictions are put in place simply to protect peoples over sensitive feelings. "Controlled" PvP is a required component of a true roleplaying game.......otherwise your actions are completely meaningless and you are nothing more than a bystander in someone elses story.
In any game which allows a player to play the part of a good or bad guy, they have to have the freedom to make decisions and roleplay them out with their actions. If the game prevents them from doing this then we are back to square one where people are forced to resort to "pretending" that they are doing things (typing made up nonsense in the chat channel) as opposed to "actually" doing things. If the game I am playing tells me that I cannot do something simply because the game mechanics are not in place to allow it to happen then that is a restriction which stops me from roleplaying my character. That really sucks.
Its because of all of these restrictions in mmos that I gave up roleplaying in online games ages ago. I still slip into a bit of character banter sometimes but thats as far as it goes. Anything else is a complete waste of time as it has nothing to do with the game itself. It might be fun for someone to pretend to be doing something which they clearly arent doing......but......if I pay money for a game then I like to actually play that game and if it doesnt cater to what a person truly wants then why pretend that it does? It makes more sense to me to just accept the fact that the game doesnt cater to proper roleplaying. Its all very well typing the words "I sneak into the stables and steal Lord Volmors horse" but if it doesnt actually happen in the game then it simply doesnt happen full stop. That player isnt actually playing the game they paid for.
When I talk about PvP by the way I am not simply referring to a giant free-for-all where everyone just runs around killing each other with no consequences. A good roleplaying game would allow its players to do anything that they're character should realistically be able to do but would also have real serious consequences for their actions.......and I dont just mean a silly hit to a faction rating or some useless temporary negative effect. This would require a lot of hard work though for the devs which is why we have not really seen it in any mmos yet.......but its totally possible. It would however require the death of the linear storylines we have been seeing in games because as long as games tell people stories then the players will never be able to tell their own stories through their roleplaying actions. What would work though would be if a game was broken up into LOTS of interconnected story sections which effected each other dynamicly.
So for example you have an area of forest in a game which can be in various "states" and a different theme unfolds dependant on that state. If lots of the wildlife gets repeatedly killed in the forest due to certain quests being undertaken and players just generally hunting them for skins or sport then the quests in the area will change to reflect that. Evil creatures might rise up to corrupt the forest and a group of npc druids deep in the forest will ask players to defeat them. Opposing players who have accepted quests from elsewhere to slay the wildlife would also become enemy targets too for players who are protecting the forest. In this way PvP would get implemented into a game in a meaningful and realistic way. Once enough evil creatures or opposing players in the area have been defeated then eventually a "switch" will be flicked and the "state" of the forest will change to a healthier state. Maybe the npc druids will gain the power to protect the forest, the evil creatures would go back into hiding and the opposing players quest to kill the animals in the forest will change to a "failure state" in which they have to return to the quest giver and report they're failure (an alternate ending to the quest). Eventually some other actions will cause the forest to "flip back" into this state again.
In this way players will be constantly changing the state of the game world by flicking invisible "switches" that alter the "states" of each area.......which in turn changes the quests in each area and elsewhere. You end up with a dynamic changing world and a TRUE roleplaying game where you're actions really do count for something. Also the game will always be different each time you play. Goodbye rigid linear story. Goodbye boring static gameworld.
Currently all we have ever seen is games which tell us stories which are static and unchangeable. The story is the same for every single person who plays it. Nothing ever changes and the actions of the players dont mean anything at all. These are not roleplaying games as you cannot choose to do anything other than follow the script that the devs have decided for you. It doesnt matter if you want to be a kind druid, an evil necromancer or an uncaring rogue. You will simply do what the devs have planned out for you along with everyone else in exactly the same way as everyone else. Until this changes we will never see a true roleplaying computer game.
Oh and as for Darkfall as far as I know they removed the option to have your own npc guards I'm afraid (as far as I know anyway). Basicly you can make things and kill players and monsters. Thats all.
Right from the beginning of your post, you miss the point of role-playing games. Role-playing games really ARE about peoples' overly sensitive feelings! True Role-playing is about characters and characterization. And hell, that's also what comic books are about! That's why they have the inner monologues in the comics, so you get a better "feel" for the character. In true role-playing games, it's a characters personality that makes him or her different than a character of a similar style. In Dungeons & Dragons, for instance, [class based stuff is just easier to use for examples] the way you can tell two mages apart aside from who's playing the character are their personalities. In Champions, it's not about 'See the villain, punch the villain in the face'! It's about interaction. The way the characters on a super team interact with one another. Does one character brood when he's not out fighting crime, or does he hang out with his teammates and try to bond with them? Do the teammates even know each others "secret identities"? Do the hero and villain know each other? They might have been former lovers, now on opposite sides of the law. Or perhaps they're father and son on differing sides of a political war? Or hell, maybe they were both part of The Weapon X program? Every nuance can change the dynamic of the story and the interaction between the characters. And that's where the fun comes in.
And all role-playing games have a person who runs the game. They're called the "Dungeon Master", or the "Game Master" or the "Referee". It doesn't matter what they're called, the point is, they come up with the story. Essentially, you start out as a "bystander in some else's story". They make up the story, so you don't have to. You can focus on playing your character. And it's your job -- your job as the character -- to breathe life into it, and make the character something more. Then you work WITH the person running the game [and the other players] to create dynamic situations and exciting scenes.
I have more to say, but life seems to come calling every time I go to sit down at the computer. So, I'll just post this, for now.
No I DONT miss the point of roleplaying games at all. I have played enough roleplaying games to be well aware of what they are about.......and I mean the old pen & paper dice rolling types of roleplaying games. I used to enjoy creating detailed characters with their own backstories and then interacting with the other players who also had their own character backgrounds. You can do this in any mmo too and having the option to attack an "enemy" player does not negate this in any way. However in an mmo you are severely restricted with what you can do because there is no GM to facilitate your actions. Being a grouchy person, or an honourable person or having some thing that happened in your characters past doesnt mean anything in an mmo because the story is set in stone and doesnt recognise any form of creativity on the players part. Only the other players can ackowlede this but as the players have no choice but to follow the story set out for them then its all kind of irrelevant.
A multiplayer computer game is NOT the same as the old dice rolling roleplaying games as there is never going to be a GM who oversees and vets everyones actions and therefore the players are NEVER going to become active participants in the games story - they will ALWAYS be bystanders from start to finish. An mmo has to cater to thousands of individual players each of which has their own objectives in the game. Its really not the same as a genuine pen & paper roleplaying game where the GM can listen to the players decisions and make the game react to them accordingly. Also in a computer game there is no character death. The player never dies and everyone is immortal.
If an mmo wants to become anything like a genuine roleplaying game then the players need to be allowed to alter the game world with their actions and this means there can be no "set in stone" story........and of course that means that by altering things in the game world their actions will bring them into conflict with other players who want different things to occur. Because of the sheer number of players in an mmo, conflict of interests in innevitable. This is a GOOD thing though not a bad thing. Afterall in a proper roleplaying game I do actually have the option of attacking or effecting another player if it made sense for my character to do so. This virtually never occurs in a roleplaying game of course because it will always be a small group of friends vs the GM and his world full of monsters and characters. This option should also be in an mmo as well......depending on the game of course. Afterall if I was playing a real roleplaying game with thousands of other players then we are not all going to get along are we.
It might not be appropriate in an mmo if all the players are supposed to be on the same side but in most mmos this is not the case. In most mmos you actually have to choose between a "good" or "evil" race. Its pretty obvious that if you are playing a character from a good race and you meet another player who is opposed to your race then you should be able to play out the conflict. There are no invisible boundaries in roleplaying games so these invisible boundaries should not really exist in an mmo either. By allowing player conflict in mmos it gets closer to the genuine freedom you get in a proper roleplaying game because you are no long simply doing what the story tells you. Instead you are becoming an active participant in it by changing it with your actions. The players are not only playing the parts of the "players" but are also the "monsters" of the opposing players. This is the advantage that mmos have over pen & paper roleplaying games. I think mmo developers are beginning to wake up to this fact.