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Is windower illegal?
Teganx
Member Posts: 401
Id like to use it but not at the risk of being banned.
playing: darkfall
waiting: earthrise
Comments
This topic will be remove soon, however, i will tell you.
Yes, any use of third party softwares not offical by SE for use are illegal.
However, i still haven't yet met anyone getting ban using it. Unless you use some "botting" similar features on it.
Just so you know, FFXI has been using a "memory" scan (which violate the user in reality but they won't admit it) on playonline's program.
Windower seem block that scan so they do know you use it.
Alot people here will get very extreme saying it is cheating, i on the other hand can't even run FFXI if i don't use it. (as my virus scan will pop the game out every 5 min + minor crashes every 10 min even without virus scan)
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I wouldn't say so if you only use it as a windower and enhance the view distance and graphics. I used it and I like how quickly you can Alt+Tab with it. I also increase the viewing distance you can see so it feels like you're in a large world instead of the inside of a box thats slowly drawing itself as u move. Its an old game and still looks nice, but some small enhancements since Square refuses to do them; make it even more fun!
Mind you this doesn't increase the viewing distance you can see enemies as many consider that as cheating. All other options I leave turned off.
I can't wait for the hammer to come down on windower.
As the other have said any third party tool is considered illegal. The only legit reason there is for using windower is allowing you to play in a windowable mode. SE has given into the requests of the player and had made FFXI windowable without any third party tool. Since the only legit reason for using it is off the board the only reason otherwise is to use it for third party hacks of the game. Party TP, recast timers, seeing though walls :: cheat, cheat, cheat. I'm sure there are others too, but this is the only crap I know about basically by looking at other peoples screen caps. Everything you need to play the game is right there for you. For anyone that needs to use these cheats WoW is {Over There} and they allow you to mod you game. The worst tool I use while playing is a pen and paper to write crap down.
I want to see SE give a warning out saying that after X day anyone found using windower will be temp banned then if they do it again perma ban. Say they are going to do it, show they are serious, then take out the people who are cheating. Very fair way of doing it.
And you can't alt tab with FFXI's windowabilty? I have never tried, i just ... use my mouse.
So let me get this straight. You're anti-windower I can tell. S-E is worthless at fixing / adding certain things to this game. It's very neglected. Like someone already said, bringing your draw distance up to 200, adding some cosmetic touches to enhance what the game looks like. While I love the game and how it looks, I'd NEVER play with normal draw distance and a lack of tinkering with the registry. Some things are just icing on the cake, and are not considered "Cheating".
You mention TParty. So you like all your melee randomly popping their sweet macros with <call1>s showing their TP? Yeah, me too, I love it! And on macros, do you do endgame? With gear swapping macros? You're telling me you use the standard 6 line macros for your gear swaps? Come on.
The windower enhances the game in ways S-E will not do. They added their own windower... woop-de-doo. When they add in all these other features that the windower plugins do, then I'll gladly stop using the windower. Just like the other 90% of the population. S-E won't ban the windower, because they would most likely kill their playerbase.
Currently Playing: - lolol
Waiting For: Final Fantasy XIV
TParty: Yup I like talking to people. The idea of the game is interacting with other people. Kinda like how you don't know who has a quest for you or not until you ask. It is supposed to simulate real life, that is the point of ALL of Final Fantasy. Normal people put into a world of extrodinary things. Speaking as a BLM here ... the game was better back in the day when people would worry about TP and try and skill chain b/c it was more fun for me. Skill Chaining is a lot art (at least on Asura) coridinating attack is something that no one does with or without the plug in.
And yes I do endgame. I honestly forget if you were around for beta or how long you were in the game your first time through. Chances are I was doing endgame long before you; remember I'm the old shit. And yes ... all my macros have 6 or less lines in them. (EDIT: come to think of it the most I might have is 5)
The thing you are missing about the whole plug in thing isn't that SE won't put these enhancements in. It is they aren't supposed to be there in the first place. That is why it is cheating. "No really poker would be so much better with 8 Aces. That is why I put 4 others up my sleeve. That isn't cheating" "Baseball would great if eveyone was hitting a homerun so lets juice. That isn't cheating" "Honey you are on the rag this week, and i'm honry so I hooked up with my ex for the night. That isn't cheating" ... get the idea or do I have to come up with more anaolgies to prove my point? If they wanted to add them they would have added them.
Let me see if I got this right. Draw distance. This will increase distance out that your game will see things. So things like buildings, mobs, npcs, players etc that would normally not be seen by me because they are too far away would be seen by you if you are standing right next to me. That's correct right?
Personally I'm proud to do the shit that I can do or the shit that I have done without something assisting me to do so. Quite frankly it starts to boarder on pathetic to need to rely on a a third party tool to play a game.
And just to state the obvious here. PS2/3 and Xbox do not get these plugins. Anything that enhanses the game mechanics to give one person an advantage over another is cheating. A person using windower knows another party members TP or can swap 10 pieces of gear at once, or can look through a wall to see a mob thus it is cheating. If you disagree you are wrong.
Wait, youre saying I can alt+tab ffxi? Or at least play in windowed mode and minimize the screen? When did they inplement this? This is all I wanted windower for but if its a feature now thats awesome!
playing: darkfall
waiting: earthrise
The windower feature is quite nice(the one built into the game) and it allows you to navigate from the game and do as you wish.
Before the FFXI windower came into affect, I will admit that I used Azari's windower. I just wanted to be able to check FFXIah.com and the FFXI wiki, I didnt care about the add-ons. Never used them. After the official windower came out, I used only that.
I agree that certain aspects of the Azaril windower are considered cheating, such as the TParty tool, but I do not think that it is that bad of a cheat. It just allows for more fluid partying. But as was said, actually SCing by party communication was one of the things that made the community better, and let you make damn sure that you knew what you were doing.
Ex-SWG Correspondent
Currently playing: FFXI, SWTOR
Awaiting: FFXIV 2.0
Wait, youre saying I can alt+tab ffxi? Or at least play in windowed mode and minimize the screen? When did they inplement this? This is all I wanted windower for but if its a feature now thats awesome!
They added it maybe a year and a half ago ... You need to go into the config tool.
Close down FFXI and Playonline. Then go to Start > Programs > Play Online > Final Fantasy XI > Final Fantasy XI Config. That program is used to configure the overall look of FFXI. On the first tab you will see a check box called something like Run in Windowed mode. Click that, then apply/save, start you game, then bob's your uncle windowability. I would also suggest putting on Hardware cursor. I find it works better with window mode.
Here is where you can change your resoultion and crap ... ya know all that stuff you can do when you change your registry. Everything is there. The only advantage to changing your registry woudl be you can double the resolution of your max setting in the configure tool. Personal I'd never touch my registry and I keep it on the highest the config tool can do.
I am not sure if you can Alt + Tab between windows if FFXI is your top window. I never tried, that is what I was asking Khrymson. I will try when I get home today though. You can use your mouse to click to other open windows though.
If you ever find that you have trouble nagivating windows (usually happens to me when I maximize the window for the first time when logging in) just mash escape til you get out of all your menus then left click the mouse a few times. Then hit Escape again and the cursor shoudl go away. The is the only real problem I end up having with it.
Thank you.
It is the only legit reason I saw to using windower was the ability to switch between windows. And since it was the only legit reason that was the only part of it that SE implemented. The reason the game wasn't windowable from the start was a deterant to using third party tools. You couldn't start up your lot bot if you can't alt+tab to it and you if you alt+tab you D/C yourself. Then some jack off makes windower to which you say "okay so now we can check quest info" then the hacks start and we are where we are in the argument.
"and let you make damn sure that you knew what you were doing."
Amen
Wait, youre saying I can alt+tab ffxi? Or at least play in windowed mode and minimize the screen? When did they inplement this? This is all I wanted windower for but if its a feature now thats awesome!
They added it maybe a year and a half ago ... You need to go into the config tool.
Close down FFXI and Playonline. Then go to Start > Programs > Play Online > Final Fantasy XI > Final Fantasy XI Config. That program is used to configure the overall look of FFXI. On the first tab you will see a check box called something like Run in Windowed mode. Click that, then apply/save, start you game, then bob's your uncle windowability. I would also suggest putting on Hardware cursor. I find it works better with window mode.
Here is where you can change your resoultion and crap ... ya know all that stuff you can do when you change your registry. Everything is there. The only advantage to changing your registry woudl be you can double the resolution of your max setting in the configure tool. Personal I'd never touch my registry and I keep it on the highest the config tool can do.
I am not sure if you can Alt + Tab between windows if FFXI is your top window. I never tried, that is what I was asking Khrymson. I will try when I get home today though. You can use your mouse to click to other open windows though.
If you ever find that you have trouble nagivating windows (usually happens to me when I maximize the window for the first time when logging in) just mash escape til you get out of all your menus then left click the mouse a few times. Then hit Escape again and the cursor shoudl go away. The is the only real problem I end up having with it.
Awesome! Thank you!
playing: darkfall
waiting: earthrise
From what I've gathered playing around with drawdistance myself, I've found it really only increases the visible distance of scenery. The Xbox360 version, if I remember, has increased draw distance. The Windower plugin simply brings the PC version to that level. This works for background scenery because the entire zone is already loaded onto your computer when you enter it. Really, the only thing the DrawDistance plugin is good for is pretty screenshots.
Your "analogies" are far from actual analogies. The windower itself is not cheating. The reason S-E kept the windower features out of the game for the first 5+ years was to stop players from starting 3rd party software to cheat, dupe, etc. Due to the overwhelming amount of people who actually USED the windower, they decided to put their own windower in, and yes it has attracted its fair share of users.
Back on track with the quote, you're actually considering cheating in poker, etc. with seeing the TP of YOUR party? What if the game didn't allow you to see the actual HP and MP of your party? Duping is cheating. And that's why 500+ people were banned.
Draw Distance: The draw distance that S-E has built in is absolutely pathetic. It doesn't allow you to see NPCs far away, PCs, anything like that. The only thing it allows you to see is the scenery at farther distances, making the game itself much more attractive.
Personally, I'll gladly use my third party software to get an advantage over someone less willing to use it. If it enhances my ability to play the game within the standards of not being considered "cheating" , then I'll gladly do it. If people are too stubborn to realize that the windower absolutely 100% helps you in many many ways that S-E has neglected to do, then that's their own personal fault.
And yes, I have been around probably as long as you. NA release here. Own the game for PS2, Xbox, and PC. Gladly take PC over any of them for the graphical enhancements and windower plugins.
I must be wrong, because I totally disagree. Man, being wrong sucks. Now I know how Uwe Boll feels.
Currently Playing: - lolol
Waiting For: Final Fantasy XIV
As long as the Windower continues to provide the tools that PC gamers want and SE denies to give them, there will be people who use it.
Luckily, for those with a sense of self-righteousness, they even created the Windower LITE. Windower LITE offers no plugin support, and it allows you to tab out of the game without closing it down(something the FFXIConfig tool does not allow you to do).
DrawDistance, TParty etc, are all plugins, so if you want those, you need to download the regular ol' windower.
SE knows people use it, but they also recognize the flaws of their own design. Not being able to do anything else on a PC while playing a video game is a serious hindrance to most. As long as you use it to tab out, or multi-task with your PC, SE won't really do anything to you. They'll step in when you use third party tools to bot, or gain an edge over other players.
The windower can be a good thing. People with PS2s and on an XBOX usually also own a PC(if this is not the case, I'll be a monkey's uncle and dance a jig). If they can look up strategies, or FFXIAH, while playing why shouldn't PC users have that luxury?
If SE implemented at the very least the ability to alt-tab from the game, and a drawdistance setting to the FFXIConfig tool, there'd be thousands less players.
The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.
reminds me of the good ol' EQ1 days when they frowned upon people using the software for windowing and subsequently, coded into the game
I believe that SE's official stance on Windower is that they will not actively pursue Windower users, but allegedly people who have been banned for using it, so my guess is that you only get banned for using it if you say you're using it and someone rats you out or something. That, or they were using Windower as well as some other kind of actual cheating tool and are simply hiding the fact.
I used windower back when i was playing FFXI, it was honestly no big deal (just played in a window and had buff / debuff timers .. thats it !
If SE was to ban me for using that silly piece of software (that should have been impplemented in ithe game), then good riddance of the game altogether [one might say ^^]
Played: Earth'n'Beyond-WoW-EvE-EQ2-LoTRo-PotBS-CoV-Vanguard-FFXI-DDO-L2
Honestly, SE doesn't give a crap about windower and are too busy with RMT and stuff like speed hackers anyway. They mostly just do it because their protocol is to not allow third-party applications. They can't detect it as far as I know because it just hooks into the exe's memory.
I played PS2 version and curently using PC version due to PS2 being busted and PS3 not backwards compatible. Now i have never used windower and never will because its modifying the game and that is pretty much cheating. Now if it only windowed your game then i would say by all means use it but adding stuff to modify it I say no.
Now SE added a windowed mode (which is what people whined about) yet those people are most likely still using windower. You who are using it say its no cheat but being able to see farther then those who can't thus most likely being able to claim an NM if it does in fact show monsters further then people without then yes it is cheating.
So for me i say its cheating and i would'nt recommend using it but its up to you really.
I would never openly recommend anyone use any third party tools, as they are against the game's ToS.
It's interesting. People that oppose the windower use other third-party programs themselves, such as the model viewer. The model viewer allows for easy manipulation of DAT files. That's also against the rules. Whether or not you use it for that purpose, you are breaking the rules by using it at all. The same applies to the windower. Not everyone uses it to "cheat." Still, it's against the rules to even have it.
The reason people still use it is because there's no point in using the standard FFXI windowed mode, as it does not allow you to alt-tab. What the hell is the point in having your game in a window if you can't switch to other windows?
DrawDistance does not allow you to see mobs before anyone else, either. Most of the plugins available for the Windower are either harmless or redundant. They do things you can already achieve through game commands.
TParty? Just ask your party members what their TP is currently at. Recast? A recast macro can echo the cooldowns for all your abilities easily. Status timers? Most people already know how long their spells last, and it even says in the chat log when it wears off.
What irks me the most about FFXI's community is their poor grasp on the concept of cheating. Like the people who argued all the recently-banned dupers were not cheating.
So, if I have that straight:
-Duping items = clever use of game mechanics?
-Tabbing out of the game = cheating?
Please.
FYI, only recently you could tab out of FFXI without using the windower. Just sayin'.
-Edit-
As a side note, where do people want to draw the line on the whole third-party debate? Either all third-party applications are okay, or none of them are(including the seemingly harmless modelviewer).
The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.
Ummm i can play the game and browse the internet i dont need to alt tab the game windowed mode is the size of your internet browser when maximized. So your able to have the game open and check your ffxi wiki or whatever else.
You can alt + tab in window mode when FFXI is the top window. I did it last night to test it out. Are you sure you are running in window mode? You need to go into FFXI Config, click the "Run in window mode" and then apply and restart POL and FFXI. Plus if you couldn't you use your mouse to move to another window just fine. I know I have said you can basically unplug your mouse when playing FFXI, but I don't expect anyone to seriously do it. That is still a tool to use.
And again, if all windower did was allow you to play in a window I would not have a problem with it. It is the addition of all the other plug-ins that are the problem. There is only one legit use for windower and that is to run in windowed mode. That is why SE only implemented their own window mode, because it was the only legit reason. You could have someone on a PS2 be on a computer or a laptop checking quest information while you have a PC player have their box tried up and can't. The window mode quite frankly levels the playing field for the PC user, becuase the console user had the advantage in that aspect.
They did not implement the other plug-ins because they are not supposed to be in the game. You are not supposed to see TP unless you ask someone to tell you. You are not supposed to know the exact distance to stand to use a range attack unless you do it enough that you do it instinctively.
As for the model viewer. I have used it, not in the last what 2 years now? Not to change the .dat files, but to view the .dat files to make my sigs and such some backgrounds. I started by trying to move my character in just the right way and snapping a screen shot quickly. Was quite challeging. Changing the .dat file is against the ToS, I don't think viewing is, but I could be wrong there. I would agree though that .dat editing/swaping is against ToS and .dat removal is cheating, but if you can ever get your buddy's PC, it is funny as hell to see his/her reaction when you swap Colibri dats for Vrtra dats
So draw distance has no effect on mobs? I hear one person say scenery I hear another person say objects. I can't fathom being able to see NPCs sooner and not being able to see the mob standing next to the NPC.
And you don't have it straight. Duping items = exploiting a bug in the game. No one intended for that kinda thing to happen. Presumably it was an clever attempt to save the normal person from falling victum to a greedy leader. The leader could have seen a drop they wanted and just booted everyone that tried to lot. This would have allowed them to keep the pool.
I don't think that being able to see mobs before other players is even possible because you only see what the server tells you is there. YOUR player model is client-side, but mobs, NPCs, and players are all server. That's why it takes a second or two for them to appear when you zone in, and why they sometimes move less smoothly than you do. The server is set to tell you what is where at certain distances, and that's not something you can really change.
The actual zone, however, is all completely loaded onto your computer when you zone in.
That being said, I never really used plugins for Windower other than that because it makes the game actually look decent for being six(?) years old. Also, the official windower has a bad habit of mucking up game performance, while the normal windower, for whatever reason, makes the game run as well as if it was fullscreen.
I don't think Windower is illegal itself, since windower exist for almost 5 years by now. SE never banned it nor said anything to the "maker" about it.
SE can't ban this software because there are quite a number of people using it.
Personally, i use windower not only to avoid crashing, but also for global IME feature which allow me to talk with japanese players. I have to say translation function is SO bad, that it is off 90% of the time.
TP party is Nice, but it is NEVER correct. In some senses, most of the plug-in are not 100% working either.
Anyway, we all know you are a "Windower" hater icon.
Windower does offer other plug-in like that "cancel" effect thing or better macros tab. So you can change all your armor when you cast a certain spell instead of limiting 3-4 lines.
I never felt it is a cheat, it is just more a support side thing. If you want to argue about cheating seriously, just go on WoW forum and talk about CTraid.
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I am not a windower hater as much as a fair play advicator.
Anywho ... if you see how much I rip Windower you should see how much I rip WoW. For the time when I was playing that I didn't use any kind of add-on or plug-in there either (/shock) and they allow it. I rip hard into my friends that play it and use all these add-ons, it is brutal trust me.
Just to sum up everything: If you want to play the game, PLAY THE FUCKING GAME! Not the game that you think it should be because for some reason you think you designed it better, the game that is actually there. The one that the people you pay money to on a monthly basis to play. If you really fel like moding a game go download a ROM and Super Mario Brothers and mob it so instead of a plumber jumping on mushrooms it is a hooker jumping on dildos. I don't really care. When you start to mess with a game that others are also playing simultaniously with you and making it so your experience is better than the guy to your left you are wrong. Ask yourself this: If you didn't have windower at your disposal would you still be playing FFXI? If they took it away from you would you stop playing? If they took your Konami Code away, would you have ever played Contra?
and by the way ... that poker anaology was damn near perfect. A game in which you inject more tools for you and only you designed to better your enjoyment over others at the expense of the integrity of the game you are defacing.
And to answer brandon's question: If they didn't show HP/MP ... tough shit. It is the game they give you so play it. And you really really need to check rhetoric:
"If people are too stubborn to realize that the windower absolutely 100% helps you in many many ways that S-E has neglected to do, then that's their own personal fault."
That sounds an aweful lot like: "SE should have fixed the bug that allowed me to dupe items. It is there fault I did this and so it is not cheating" Which is the bullshit that most of those ban people were spewing about in their defense. A dellusionsal responce to an action that they did that attempts to place the blame on other. Kinda like that parent whose child does something wrong placeing blame on a victum because their child is flawless and perfect: "It's your hunbands fault . He should not have been in bed asleep when my child broke into your house and stabbed him to death" (I know ... this is an off-the-wall anaology, but I have heard equally as bad one).
I'll say it again. It isn't that they are neglecting to put something into the game. It is the fact that it is not supposed to be there in the first place.
You realize WoW promotes addons right? The game installs with an addon folder. In fact, blizzard has fancied addons so much that they take ideas and implement them into development. WoW would never have scrolling combat text or a threat meter, or even an in game voice system, had it not been for their pro-addon attitude.
Addons never add unfair advantage, they just compile information that any normal user has access to.
You shouldn't talk about things you don't understand.