Ah OU the great clan warefare game. o wait it wasn't about clan warefare just about people ganking each other o lol and them having their own house? ah alright just a bunch of people wanting to play Mr rogar's neighborhood with magic and killing.
First off, it's UO and if you believe what you said you never learned to play the game or just never played it. Go back to WoW.
The care-bears alway use the term ganking to describe any gameplay that doesn't have the happy-happy-joy-joy outcome that they expect. Again, go back to WoW. You deserve each other.
EDIT: Removed top post to shorten.
AH HA you found me out. I didn't play UO at all I knew the OU hint would work. but this guy is just saying a bunch of crap.
and you are also.. lol me carebaer. and WoW.
You sir are nuts golden rosted with salt, but still pure nuts
*sigh* Another 12 year old who managed to squeak through the registration system...
*sigh* another confused indiviual that thinks they know what they are talking about but yet just dosn't understand that simply saying one true thing means they can spout as much bullshit after it as they want to make them feel better.
------------------------------------------------- Achiever 20.00%, Explorer 86.67%, Killer 60.00%, Socializer 33.33%
Originally posted by rogert4221 Sorry if I confused you. Yes, you are right. The way you described it is the way it is supposed to work on the live server. But the ones that are currently built in the beta were not 'built' by players. The players didn't gather raw materials and build up the city. The devs just popped in and 'auto finished' the city for a few guilds. I'm talking about what is currently in the game now, not what the devs have planned.
Well I have read about guilds collecting the mats themselves and saying things like "we haven't got that building we should have enough mats tomorrow to build it". I don't think the devs have just auto built structures. Can someone in the beta confirm this?
Never heard of it happening.
------------------------------------------------- Achiever 20.00%, Explorer 86.67%, Killer 60.00%, Socializer 33.33%
While the developers claim to want to make 'old school' UO. They have failed to learn any of the lessons of UO, and in some cases have gone backwards. The below list are ALL gamebreaking flaws with Darkfall, and are all things that UO 'fixed' very early on. There is no reason why the developers of Darkfall should be 'reinventing' the wheel. They will end up spending the next year implementing 'fixes' to things they should have fixed in their initial design. They should have learned from the mistakes of UO, rather than repeat them. 1. The rogue system - I've staed this before.. the BEST murderers in the game will never go red, they will be the ones who trick their targets into going grey to get a free kill. This is exactly what happened in UO. A player will step in front of an attack, and then his guild will gank the 'target'. The entire murder system will turn into being good at 'semi-exploiting' it. Why have an artificial system (going grey) when the main use of that system will end up being people abusing it? Just get rid of 'rogue status' and instead give the attacker a murder count if he kills the player. The entire 'going grey' thing never actually had a good purpose in UO.. the only thing it did was be abused by semi-exploiters. Darkfall is already backtracking on it with guard towers and the new 10 second rule. My guess is they will go through the exact same learning process that UO did, which is stupid.. they should have learned from UO BEFORE they implemented this system.
***********The rogue system was recently changed in order to allow 10 seconds of rogue to dissapear, if you attack again before that 10 seconds is up it goes up to 2 minutes. Leaves less time for griefing to occur, doesnt eliminate it but its a bandaid fix before they can revamp.*********** 2. Macroing - Having a skill system is great, but having a skill system with easy macroing is worse than having a leveling system. Which is better 'gameplay' to you.. Being forced to go into the woods and kill 1000 boars to grind up a level? Or running a macro while you are watching TV? Yes, you have a choice. You don't have to macro... but it is so rampant in the beta, and so openly talked about.. that if you do NOT macro, you will never catch up. Gathering raw materials? Forget about it. The amount of materials a macroer can gather will dwarf what you can do by hand. Gain skill or gather armor by fighting mobs? Forget it, that person who macro'd their skill to max will be plowing down mobs way faster than you. All of the benefits of a 'skill based' system are thrown out the window when macroers race past you. In UO, I would say about 75% of skills were macro'd. You didn't see players running around fighting mobs or each other with 37 in a skill. Instead, they simply macro'd the skill up to 100 and THEN started playing.
********You show me a player macroeing his attack skills and I will show you a player whom will get owned several times over by people with half their attack skill owning them cause they know how to use their character, once everyone gets off their naked starter weapon there is very little variance between the damage/armor (depending on what type)********* 3. Weapons/Armor - Even if you assume that nobody will macro.. the skill system in Darkfall is very 'basic'. There was about a 6 month period in UO's history where 90% of characters were mages who wore plate armor and carried a halbard. There was absolutely no character diversity. Darkfall is setting itself up to be exactly that. There is no real penalty for having plate armor, and their are no negatives to having certain weapons. Everyone will use a polearm (range), and everyone will wear plate armor. While the greatest part of a skill system is supposed to be player diversity... the weapon/armor system in Darkfall will throw that completely out the window. Everyone will have the same skills.
*****well looks like they're following UO now doesnt it ;-) there will be changes to the game, its ever evolving happens with all MMO's. ********* 4. Endgame Content - I called this in warhammer right before launch. Killing the same players repeatedly gets old very fast in a p2p game. Even if you discount macroing skills.. players are going to max out their skills very fast.. then what? Stand around the same area of the woods and fight the same players and reloot the same armor they looted off you 30 mins earlier. UO had player housing... Darkfall doesn't. There is nothing currently in the game that gives any longevity to gameplay. Will player cities be that? will they be implemented fast enough? Going by what I've seen in beta, player cities are probably a long way off, and again, because of macro's, they will either be absurdly easy for macroers, or near impossible for normal players. I know this is a semi- indictment against ' open world'.... but really there does need to be a 'goal' for players to play for other than 'kill the same players over and over'. At the moment, Darkfall doesn't have those type of things that UO had.
**********ITS BETA!!! there will be thousands more players and much more land to fight over since more players will be making places for you to crash down. UO has been going for 11 years. Darkfall has been developing for almost 8 (Off and on). Keep in mind even though they have some things to workon it will come in tme.************** UO made a lot of mistakes... but they also did a lot of things right over the years. It seems to me that Darkfall has gone too far back into UO's history and didn't pay attention to some of the problems it fixed along the way.
Good points OP, you have some valid complaints. Jezvin, quit typing, it clearly shows you haven't played the game and have only watched beta videos. And yes, I beleive the guild cities were auto'd up. If the betaleak site had not got infected with porn, I'd double check because if I recall there was a post there about it. I have some odd assumption this game is nothing more than a huge FFA quake map with bots. For awhile it might be fun, but after the first month, I hope it will keep me entertained. Oh well, moneys done spent, well will be on the 25th.
Originally posted by rogert4221 Sorry if I confused you. Yes, you are right. The way you described it is the way it is supposed to work on the live server. But the ones that are currently built in the beta were not 'built' by players. The players didn't gather raw materials and build up the city. The devs just popped in and 'auto finished' the city for a few guilds. I'm talking about what is currently in the game now, not what the devs have planned.
Well I have read about guilds collecting the mats themselves and saying things like "we haven't got that building we should have enough mats tomorrow to build it". I don't think the devs have just auto built structures. Can someone in the beta confirm this?
Never heard of it happening.
If it is possible that it happened, it would be STRICTLY because of the fact that it is beta and they werent able to create the proper GUI for it. I have not heard of this occuring either but its possible.
1. The rogue system is by no means as involved as the one in UO, in this game it practically doesnt matter after u leave the beginner zones. While we certainly might see Blue-PKers preying on beginners, UO -style, a person who has played the game past these areas will not really care about algnment anymore as it will not affect him in any way. The murder system doesn't matter? Darkfall has a red penalty. All there will be is 'blue-pks'. Here is exactly how it will play out. I come across you in the woods. You are fighting a mob. You have 3 choices. 1. you let the mob kill you and I loot you. 2. You continue to fight the mob and I just run in front of your attack and you go grey and I kill you. 3. I make you go grey, you kill me, then you get a murder count. You have no other options except run away. There is no point in having a red/grey system when it is soooo easily exploited.
2. Every MMO has macro/bot problems, the question is only what the devs will do to deal with it, and the answer is we have no idea yet. Fact remains that in THIS game macroers can be killed, and very little can be macroed without either starting with alot of regs in ur backpack or aquiering alot of resource materials while macroing, in other words macroers have backpacks full of stuff that other people will want. And THAT gives darkfall a leg up in the anti-macro department as opposed to the majority of MMOs out there. Just not true. You can't gain skills/levels in WOW, LOTRO, AOC or Warhammer by macroing. There are no other skill based systems on the market except UO and soon darkfall. Are you in the beta? Do you not see EVERYONE shooting missles in the air. Darkfall is exactly like UO... you could kill macroers and mages required regeants. People have already written programs to harvest raw materials while they are afk.
3. Speaking as a former hally-mage, Id have to disagree, the problem with UO was Magery was EVERYTHING, it was the only skill required to gain every spell in the game. Not so in Darkfall as a massive amount of spell schools will give us plenty of variation. Again? are you in beta? Darkfall has a massive amount of spell schools, but they are all nearly identical. It's the same as weapon skills. In UO, you could just pick magery and macro it up and get full benefit. In Darkfall, the only difference is you have to pick a school and macro it up and get full benefit. The 'variety' in the schools is cosmetic.
4. Out there there is a game called Shadowbane, in that game players are to this very day constructing towns and sieging each others cities, the political landscape of such a sandbox constantly shifting as alliances are broken and new ones are formed, in my opinion this is the ultimate Endgame. Everyone wants to be the legendary conqueror, few will achieve it, but most will try. Shadowbane is Free. Shadowbane has buildable cities. Darkfall will cost money (which is why I used the term p2p in my original post). DF doesn't have player housing or cities.
Basically what Darkfall is doing is taking back some of the original features of UO and say, hey u didnt have to remove that, it is possible to build a game around it.
Ug omiting my crazy babel which I do like doing more than this.
1. as soon as your out of the noob zone the alignment system dosn't matter there is no diffrence between being red or blue, and if you want to be blue just go kill some race foes or get a clanmate to leave clan so you can farm him up for some blueification.
2. new patch, you will be able to kill macroers I can't wait this will be pure joy, also for the MM macroers they have always been easy to kill.
3. yes I am in beta and every school of magic offers something diffrent...
4. Shadowbane was retarded.
so basicly darkfall was all like I'm awesome the trolls then were like AHHH IT BURNS QUICK LETS FLAME A DIFFRENT WAY BUT THEY STILLL SUCKED AT IT.
1. There is a big difference between being red or blue. Bind points? City access? Freely attackable without penalty? ring a bell?
2. Like I said.. you could easily kill macroers in UO too. But everyone macro'd almost every skill up to 100 before they even started playing. Again.. the entire point of my post is that DF learned nothing from UO. Players are still going to macro most skills up to 100.
3. No. Every school has a differently named main attack spell, but the main attack spell is exactly the same. Each school has a few different minor spells, but the 'corp por' spell will be the same with just a different name.
4. Someone else brought Shadowbane up as the 'proof' that mindless pvp was enough 'endgame'. I was simply pointing out that it was a free game that is barely played.
1. there is NO BIG difference between being red or blue, No noob bind points, NO noob cities, freely attackable just like anyone else. not to mention it is TRIVIAL TO TURN BACK BLUE FROM RED!
2. crafts harvests and MM are the only things that will be macroed everything else would be risky at best due to reagents and ease of killing you.
3. I am sorry I do not intend to level my magic for the "main attack spell" and Plan to use the utility much to my advantange. and Yes I have looked at many of the spells and talked to people (who yes most likly macroed) that have unlocked some of them.
4. its not mindless.
1. It is very easy to turn Blue again once red, just takes a bit of time and traveling.
2. Which makes this game great
3. Magic will have enough benefits to want you to grind it out to get the buffs and debuffs that comes with the magic.
4. Its epic.
From a beta player most of the text IN RED is altered to make it seem ALOT worse than it is, there are player built cities. Just some LARGE cities have been prebuilt in order for some clans to take over so that it gives another thing to continuously fight for. BUT AGAIN THERE ARE PLAYER BUILT CITIES.
Originally posted by rogert4221 Sorry if I confused you. Yes, you are right. The way you described it is the way it is supposed to work on the live server. But the ones that are currently built in the beta were not 'built' by players. The players didn't gather raw materials and build up the city. The devs just popped in and 'auto finished' the city for a few guilds. I'm talking about what is currently in the game now, not what the devs have planned.
Well I have read about guilds collecting the mats themselves and saying things like "we haven't got that building we should have enough mats tomorrow to build it". I don't think the devs have just auto built structures. Can someone in the beta confirm this?
Never heard of it happening.
If it is possible that it happened, it would be STRICTLY because of the fact that it is beta and they werent able to create the proper GUI for it. I have not heard of this occuring either but its possible.
But is it possible?
I also heard (can't find link - IIRC the N00B Review mentioned this too?) that the materials needed to build cities were not yet 'turned on' (debug mode...yada yada) and that the only cities that have been 'built' were built because the devs gave certain guilds the materials to do so.
That is to say... the players would NOT have been able to build the cities without direct Dev help.
Yes, the Clanstones might be in game - but so what?
It may as well be a "<TO DO>" marker?
If that is true then while building cities might be technically possible - you will NOT be able to do it in game.
No cities = no sieges and a big part of the reason for playing isn't there.
Also, if only a couple of cities exist then you can bet the siege warfare and city flip portion of the game has not been properly tested.
This all sounds remarkably like Age of Conan (AoC) at release:
Funcom>"Sieging works!"
Players>"No it doesn't! We can't do it!?"
Funcom>"You need a Tier 3 City."
Players>"But they are not enabled yet!!!"
Funcom>"Yes they are."
Players>"No they are not. We cannot build one!?"
Funcom>"Ah... that's because Tier 3 CRAFTING is NOT ENABLED yet. But City Sieges and Tier 3 Cities ARE IN GAME!"
Which just goes to prove players don't learn.
Can anyone - anywhere - confirm a player city has been built WITHOUT GM/Dev assistance?
1. The rogue system is by no means as involved as the one in UO, in this game it practically doesnt matter after u leave the beginner zones. While we certainly might see Blue-PKers preying on beginners, UO -style, a person who has played the game past these areas will not really care about algnment anymore as it will not affect him in any way. The murder system doesn't matter? Darkfall has a red penalty. All there will be is 'blue-pks'. Here is exactly how it will play out. I come across you in the woods. You are fighting a mob. You have 3 choices. 1. you let the mob kill you and I loot you. 2. You continue to fight the mob and I just run in front of your attack and you go grey and I kill you. 3. I make you go grey, you kill me, then you get a murder count. You have no other options except run away. There is no point in having a red/grey system when it is soooo easily exploited.
This is precisely what will happen at times.
It will not be game breaking though, meerly annoying for new players. But if you have bought a pvp gankfest game, this is what you have to expect. To expect WoW-style carebear levelling is naieve. For some players this will be a great wake-up call, give them a taste of the game to come. While im certain a lot will QQ and quit, as many will get the taste for it and stay and those are the kind of players this game is geared towards.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
Don't confuse magic quantity with quality. There my be a lot of different skills for magic but most do the exact same thing (copy/paste skills). It lessens your ability to create a unique char.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
1.) I agree the rogue system is stupid as is. However no matter how you design it, it'll be exploitable in one way or another.
2.) Name a MMO where players don't macro / afk something. Every game has this "problem" but at least in DF players are able to kill those players if they wish.
3.) Weapons / Armor, I agree that this should be fixed. With that said, every MMO has one template that is better than the rest at launch, and with most there always is one. Given some time I bet AV will balance things out more.
4.) I haven't played any mmo that has much for end-game content. Everything gets old after you've done it hundreds of times. However, I'd rather kill the same players over and over than the same scripted AI. Sure other MMOs have both, but they lack any meaning in the PvP aspect so I don't count that.
Don't get me wrong I'm unhappy with DF as it is, and feel let down by it. However, it's still more fun than any others out there atm.
Just get rid of 'rogue status' and instead give the attacker a murder count if he kills the player.
The current game I'm playing, Requiem, does just that. You kill someone on the PK server and you are flagged as a murderer. The act is also very deliberate -- you can't just click on another player and start killing. You must use a key-mouse comination. This avoids accidental PK scenarios. At that point several things happen:
1) You no longer can group or belong to a guild until you "work off" your murderer status. You do this by questing and dying at the hands of other players.
2) As soon as you are flagged as a murderer, others can attack you without PK penalties. In other words, you become fair game.
3) You are de-buffed in a few other aspects of the game until your murderer status is removed.
I think its a great system and I rarely see people going around on a killing spree. This is probably due to the fact that you can't participate in the areas that have good loot, because they are group areas and you are barred from grouping. If you choose to be a murderer most of the time, that's OK but your character's life will be very lonely.
I'm not playing the beta of DF yet, but I suspect the devs tried to implement more of a PK system as opposed to a PvP system (someone please correct me if I'm wrong -- I'm just speculating). PvP and PK are NOT the same. PvP is by design consentual in the sense that you choose to be in a PvP or non-PvP area on a server. On a purely PK server, you are killable whether you like it or not. The only way to avoid it is to log off.
So, to make a long post short , I agree that the rogue system could be replaced with a murderer penalty and everyone would be much happier (maybe)
Despite what people tell you, Darkfall *IS* a carebear game.
Why? Because the combat mechanics allows people to run. The game encourages people to chugg potions, eat foods and RUN from danger. Little if any mezzing in the game. I contend that games with mezzes are less carebear than Darkfall. Only the bad players will die and they are probably wearing crap too. I'll bet people will carry around hundreds of junk in their packs just to piss their killers off....drag drop...drag drop....
Despite what people tell you, Darkfall *IS* a carebear game. Why? Because the combat mechanics allows people to run. The game encourages people to chugg potions, eat foods and RUN from danger. Little if any mezzing in the game. I contend that games with mezzes are less carebear than Darkfall. Only the bad players will die and they are probably wearing crap too. I'll bet people will carry around hundreds of junk in their packs just to piss their killers off....drag drop...drag drop....
Yep, JUST like in UO. 68 bags of various colors spring to mind hehe.
Also potion tiemr is 45 seconds so thats been fixed pretty well, the running makes for dynamic combat, and is a necesity considering the rules of the game.
If u call that Carebear, as opposed to, "im dead, ding im alive, back to fighting" which is the norm then I shudder to think about what game u would want to play.
Originally Darkfall was supposed to have Perma-death, maybe that would be more ro ur liking.
Despite what people tell you, Darkfall *IS* a carebear game. Why? Because the combat mechanics allows people to run. The game encourages people to chugg potions, eat foods and RUN from danger. Little if any mezzing in the game. I contend that games with mezzes are less carebear than Darkfall. Only the bad players will die and they are probably wearing crap too. I'll bet people will carry around hundreds of junk in their packs just to piss their killers off....drag drop...drag drop....
Sorry but this must be one most stupid replys on whats carebear and hardcore is ever, you obvious have no clue what carebear means.
Go play wow arena or CS, Darkfall is is absolutly not for you nub.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Don't confuse magic quantity with quality. There my be a lot of different skills for magic but most do the exact same thing (copy/paste skills). It lessens your ability to create a unique char.
The fact that most spell schools have similar attack spells is there to make them balanced.
Pretty much all of the rest of the spells are unique in each school.
Despite what people tell you, Darkfall *IS* a carebear game. Why? Because the combat mechanics allows people to run. The game encourages people to chugg potions, eat foods and RUN from danger. Little if any mezzing in the game. I contend that games with mezzes are less carebear than Darkfall. Only the bad players will die and they are probably wearing crap too. I'll bet people will carry around hundreds of junk in their packs just to piss their killers off....drag drop...drag drop....
hehe nice trick, I plan on dying a lot so I will remember to do that
About the running, seems to be a bit stupid.. guys running for 10 minutes or more after someone in almost all the videos. Hope there is something else.
Originally posted by rogert4221 Really? in Darkfall you will be attacking player owned content? When is that going to be? Again, I'm talking about the game that is going to be launched in a week, not a game that is in the imagination of the developers. The players own NOTHING right now. The only thing there is to fight over is the gear that you drop. My post is about the game the way it will be the first few months after launch. Not the way you think it will be next year.
Clan cities are in the game, tested and working in beta. There are videos of it on youtube.
Why comment when you can't read. The 'cities' that are in the game were placed by the devs. They were not built from the ground up.
um... no. you have some serious wrong facts here.
My guild built a hamlet from the ground up.
The GMs placed nothing.
every city was built from the ground up by guild that harvested the mats themselves.
Without having played DF in beta I agree with the OP to a certain amount. I believe there are some lessons that could of been taken from UO that DF has failed to implement at this point. However, every game has a different formula and I have a hard time generalizing all of the positives of UO to DF and believing that it would work properly. Furthemore, the OP is making the mistake by generalizing that all players are playing for the same reasons. When I played UO I didn't view it as a gank fest that you had to struggle to compete with other players. I did my crafting and housing stuff and was usually left alone. I feel a lot of people will play DF for other reasons than PvP. Just because it is a skill based sandbox game doesn't mean the only thing to do in it is PvP. I love exploring and loot gathering with the real possibility of danger. I know when to call it quits and play it safe, those who don't are the ones who get frusterated.
Originally posted by rogert4221 Really? in Darkfall you will be attacking player owned content? When is that going to be? Again, I'm talking about the game that is going to be launched in a week, not a game that is in the imagination of the developers. The players own NOTHING right now. The only thing there is to fight over is the gear that you drop. My post is about the game the way it will be the first few months after launch. Not the way you think it will be next year.
Clan cities are in the game, tested and working in beta. There are videos of it on youtube.
Why comment when you can't read. The 'cities' that are in the game were placed by the devs. They were not built from the ground up.
omfg.
Really? And who exactly fed you this tripe?
I call it tripe because it is absolute BS, and you and the person who has informed you are completely moronic.
Christ.
Edit: for the ill-informed, in case you haven't already grasped it-- clans have been building up their own cities and hamlets in beta WITHOUT the assistance or intervention of the Devs.
_______________________________________________ Games looking forward to: Fallen Earth, Mortal Online
The noob formally not known as not being the formally not unkown known APEist; The Stone Cold Killer of Tarq.
Yes the OP is full of BS. I am also in beta and no guild has been "given" a city by the devs. Also the only place that I saw that macroing was a problem is with gathering skills which you will find in any game. As for magic the only macroing I have ever seen is with mana missle which is only macroing lesser magic and I havn't seen many people do it. Other then mana missle and heal self (the two starter spells) spells require rengrets which deturs alot of people from being able to macro anything other then lesser magic because they can not afford the rengrets.
Currently Playing:nothing Have Played: WoW GW LoTRO Last Chaos Maple story 2 Moons Lunia Perfect World Archlord Silkroad FFXI EQII Vanguard Age of Conan
While the developers claim to want to make 'old school' UO. They have failed to learn any of the lessons of UO, and in some cases have gone backwards. The below list are ALL gamebreaking flaws with Darkfall, and are all things that UO 'fixed' very early on. There is no reason why the developers of Darkfall should be 'reinventing' the wheel. They will end up spending the next year implementing 'fixes' to things they should have fixed in their initial design. They should have learned from the mistakes of UO, rather than repeat them. 1. The rogue system - I've staed this before.. the BEST murderers in the game will never go red, they will be the ones who trick their targets into going grey to get a free kill. This is exactly what happened in UO. A player will step in front of an attack, and then his guild will gank the 'target'. The entire murder system will turn into being good at 'semi-exploiting' it. Why have an artificial system (going grey) when the main use of that system will end up being people abusing it? Just get rid of 'rogue status' and instead give the attacker a murder count if he kills the player. The entire 'going grey' thing never actually had a good purpose in UO.. the only thing it did was be abused by semi-exploiters. Darkfall is already backtracking on it with guard towers and the new 10 second rule. My guess is they will go through the exact same learning process that UO did, which is stupid.. they should have learned from UO BEFORE they implemented this system. 2. Macroing - Having a skill system is great, but having a skill system with easy macroing is worse than having a leveling system. Which is better 'gameplay' to you.. Being forced to go into the woods and kill 1000 boars to grind up a level? Or running a macro while you are watching TV? Yes, you have a choice. You don't have to macro... but it is so rampant in the beta, and so openly talked about.. that if you do NOT macro, you will never catch up. Gathering raw materials? Forget about it. The amount of materials a macroer can gather will dwarf what you can do by hand. Gain skill or gather armor by fighting mobs? Forget it, that person who macro'd their skill to max will be plowing down mobs way faster than you. All of the benefits of a 'skill based' system are thrown out the window when macroers race past you. In UO, I would say about 75% of skills were macro'd. You didn't see players running around fighting mobs or each other with 37 in a skill. Instead, they simply macro'd the skill up to 100 and THEN started playing. 3. Weapons/Armor - Even if you assume that nobody will macro.. the skill system in Darkfall is very 'basic'. There was about a 6 month period in UO's history where 90% of characters were mages who wore plate armor and carried a halbard. There was absolutely no character diversity. Darkfall is setting itself up to be exactly that. There is no real penalty for having plate armor, and their are no negatives to having certain weapons. Everyone will use a polearm (range), and everyone will wear plate armor. While the greatest part of a skill system is supposed to be player diversity... the weapon/armor system in Darkfall will throw that completely out the window. Everyone will have the same skills. 4. Endgame Content - I called this in warhammer right before launch. Killing the same players repeatedly gets old very fast in a p2p game. Even if you discount macroing skills.. players are going to max out their skills very fast.. then what? Stand around the same area of the woods and fight the same players and reloot the same armor they looted off you 30 mins earlier. UO had player housing... Darkfall doesn't. There is nothing currently in the game that gives any longevity to gameplay. Will player cities be that? will they be implemented fast enough? Going by what I've seen in beta, player cities are probably a long way off, and again, because of macro's, they will either be absurdly easy for macroers, or near impossible for normal players. I know this is a semi- indictment against ' open world'.... but really there does need to be a 'goal' for players to play for other than 'kill the same players over and over'. At the moment, Darkfall doesn't have those type of things that UO had. UO made a lot of mistakes... but they also did a lot of things right over the years. It seems to me that Darkfall has gone too far back into UO's history and didn't pay attention to some of the problems it fixed along the way.
I m neither for or against this game, as I could care less to ever play it. That said if most of this is the case I could see people being extremly bored within a month or 2. The hardcore won t but alot of people thinking this game is something more then it actually is will be. I remember in the early days of DAOC it as an amazing game got a little repetitive, then DF was added, then SI was added(after that well it sucked) What i m getting at is DF added a huge reason to rvr, take control of keeps etc. SI added some great dungeons and encounters for loot . What the point is, no matter how much you love pk ing it will get boring if thats the main reason to log in. WAR itself is slowly adding stuff to counteract such things while improving it s ORVR. Hope the people looking forward to this game have what they want, but the majority, IMO will be bored fast if such things aren t implemented. Guild cities fighting over gets boring as well, SB proved this as usually 1-3 guilds owned the server.
Not all the Clan stones are in the game. Maxxing out your skills wont take days it will take months and months, They deteriotate over time so if you log out for a couple days to a week or so your skill lvl in that certain skill will diminish. Players can build houses but it has to be in your clan city. Like you said not all materials and ect are in the game. That is so people dont get ahead of other people and know where everything is already. Unfair advantage in a game like this.
This game wont get boring as it will take months to build your cities. It seems you want all your stuff handed down to you. If you want that join WoW. Im sick of games that hold your damn hands and you dont have to do jack squat.
The one thing I don't really like about DF is the macroing I'm reading about.
Since it would be extremely easy to code so that players couldn't macro, I have to assume that Aventurine Devs are well aware of the mechanic and in fact, encourage it.
As this is the case, I can't support the game.
Some folks say patches are coming to resolve the issue, if so I'll revisit playing the game.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The one thing I don't really like about DF is the macroing I'm reading about. Since it would be extremely easy to code so that players couldn't macro, I have to assume that Aventurine Devs are well aware of the mechanic and in fact, encourage it. As this is the case, I can't support the game. Some folks say patches are coming to resolve the issue, if so I'll revisit playing the game.
Won t happen no matter how much the fanbois claim it will. One of the best games I ever played AC was riddled with it. It s like a kid wanting to get booze underage, if they want it they ll get it somehow. Macroing will always be alive in this game. AV won t do anything about it, because they ll lose to many subs, which they can t afford.
Comments
Lets go again.
Ah OU the great clan warefare game. o wait it wasn't about clan warefare just about people ganking each other o lol and them having their own house? ah alright just a bunch of people wanting to play Mr rogar's neighborhood with magic and killing.
First off, it's UO and if you believe what you said you never learned to play the game or just never played it. Go back to WoW.
The care-bears alway use the term ganking to describe any gameplay that doesn't have the happy-happy-joy-joy outcome that they expect. Again, go back to WoW. You deserve each other.
EDIT: Removed top post to shorten.
AH HA you found me out. I didn't play UO at all I knew the OU hint would work. but this guy is just saying a bunch of crap.
and you are also.. lol me carebaer. and WoW.
You sir are nuts golden rosted with salt, but still pure nuts
*sigh* Another 12 year old who managed to squeak through the registration system...
*sigh* another confused indiviual that thinks they know what they are talking about but yet just dosn't understand that simply saying one true thing means they can spout as much bullshit after it as they want to make them feel better.
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Achiever 20.00%, Explorer 86.67%, Killer 60.00%, Socializer 33.33%
EKSA
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Well I have read about guilds collecting the mats themselves and saying things like "we haven't got that building we should have enough mats tomorrow to build it". I don't think the devs have just auto built structures. Can someone in the beta confirm this?
Never heard of it happening.
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Achiever 20.00%, Explorer 86.67%, Killer 60.00%, Socializer 33.33%
EKSA
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Good points OP, you have some valid complaints. Jezvin, quit typing, it clearly shows you haven't played the game and have only watched beta videos. And yes, I beleive the guild cities were auto'd up. If the betaleak site had not got infected with porn, I'd double check because if I recall there was a post there about it. I have some odd assumption this game is nothing more than a huge FFA quake map with bots. For awhile it might be fun, but after the first month, I hope it will keep me entertained. Oh well, moneys done spent, well will be on the 25th.
Well I have read about guilds collecting the mats themselves and saying things like "we haven't got that building we should have enough mats tomorrow to build it". I don't think the devs have just auto built structures. Can someone in the beta confirm this?
Never heard of it happening.
If it is possible that it happened, it would be STRICTLY because of the fact that it is beta and they werent able to create the proper GUI for it. I have not heard of this occuring either but its possible.
Ug omiting my crazy babel which I do like doing more than this.
1. as soon as your out of the noob zone the alignment system dosn't matter there is no diffrence between being red or blue, and if you want to be blue just go kill some race foes or get a clanmate to leave clan so you can farm him up for some blueification.
2. new patch, you will be able to kill macroers I can't wait this will be pure joy, also for the MM macroers they have always been easy to kill.
3. yes I am in beta and every school of magic offers something diffrent...
4. Shadowbane was retarded.
so basicly darkfall was all like I'm awesome the trolls then were like AHHH IT BURNS QUICK LETS FLAME A DIFFRENT WAY BUT THEY STILLL SUCKED AT IT.
1. There is a big difference between being red or blue. Bind points? City access? Freely attackable without penalty? ring a bell?
2. Like I said.. you could easily kill macroers in UO too. But everyone macro'd almost every skill up to 100 before they even started playing. Again.. the entire point of my post is that DF learned nothing from UO. Players are still going to macro most skills up to 100.
3. No. Every school has a differently named main attack spell, but the main attack spell is exactly the same. Each school has a few different minor spells, but the 'corp por' spell will be the same with just a different name.
4. Someone else brought Shadowbane up as the 'proof' that mindless pvp was enough 'endgame'. I was simply pointing out that it was a free game that is barely played.
1. there is NO BIG difference between being red or blue, No noob bind points, NO noob cities, freely attackable just like anyone else. not to mention it is TRIVIAL TO TURN BACK BLUE FROM RED!
2. crafts harvests and MM are the only things that will be macroed everything else would be risky at best due to reagents and ease of killing you.
3. I am sorry I do not intend to level my magic for the "main attack spell" and Plan to use the utility much to my advantange. and Yes I have looked at many of the spells and talked to people (who yes most likly macroed) that have unlocked some of them.
4. its not mindless.
1. It is very easy to turn Blue again once red, just takes a bit of time and traveling.
2. Which makes this game great
3. Magic will have enough benefits to want you to grind it out to get the buffs and debuffs that comes with the magic.
4. Its epic.
From a beta player most of the text IN RED is altered to make it seem ALOT worse than it is, there are player built cities. Just some LARGE cities have been prebuilt in order for some clans to take over so that it gives another thing to continuously fight for. BUT AGAIN THERE ARE PLAYER BUILT CITIES.
Well I have read about guilds collecting the mats themselves and saying things like "we haven't got that building we should have enough mats tomorrow to build it". I don't think the devs have just auto built structures. Can someone in the beta confirm this?
Never heard of it happening.
If it is possible that it happened, it would be STRICTLY because of the fact that it is beta and they werent able to create the proper GUI for it. I have not heard of this occuring either but its possible.
But is it possible?
I also heard (can't find link - IIRC the N00B Review mentioned this too?) that the materials needed to build cities were not yet 'turned on' (debug mode...yada yada) and that the only cities that have been 'built' were built because the devs gave certain guilds the materials to do so.
That is to say... the players would NOT have been able to build the cities without direct Dev help.
Yes, the Clanstones might be in game - but so what?
It may as well be a "<TO DO>" marker?
If that is true then while building cities might be technically possible - you will NOT be able to do it in game.
No cities = no sieges and a big part of the reason for playing isn't there.
Also, if only a couple of cities exist then you can bet the siege warfare and city flip portion of the game has not been properly tested.
This all sounds remarkably like Age of Conan (AoC) at release:
Funcom>"Sieging works!"
Players>"No it doesn't! We can't do it!?"
Funcom>"You need a Tier 3 City."
Players>"But they are not enabled yet!!!"
Funcom>"Yes they are."
Players>"No they are not. We cannot build one!?"
Funcom>"Ah... that's because Tier 3 CRAFTING is NOT ENABLED yet. But City Sieges and Tier 3 Cities ARE IN GAME!"
Which just goes to prove players don't learn.
Can anyone - anywhere - confirm a player city has been built WITHOUT GM/Dev assistance?
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
This is precisely what will happen at times.
It will not be game breaking though, meerly annoying for new players. But if you have bought a pvp gankfest game, this is what you have to expect. To expect WoW-style carebear levelling is naieve. For some players this will be a great wake-up call, give them a taste of the game to come. While im certain a lot will QQ and quit, as many will get the taste for it and stay and those are the kind of players this game is geared towards.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
Don't confuse magic quantity with quality. There my be a lot of different skills for magic but most do the exact same thing (copy/paste skills). It lessens your ability to create a unique char.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
1.) I agree the rogue system is stupid as is. However no matter how you design it, it'll be exploitable in one way or another.
2.) Name a MMO where players don't macro / afk something. Every game has this "problem" but at least in DF players are able to kill those players if they wish.
3.) Weapons / Armor, I agree that this should be fixed. With that said, every MMO has one template that is better than the rest at launch, and with most there always is one. Given some time I bet AV will balance things out more.
4.) I haven't played any mmo that has much for end-game content. Everything gets old after you've done it hundreds of times. However, I'd rather kill the same players over and over than the same scripted AI. Sure other MMOs have both, but they lack any meaning in the PvP aspect so I don't count that.
Don't get me wrong I'm unhappy with DF as it is, and feel let down by it. However, it's still more fun than any others out there atm.
The current game I'm playing, Requiem, does just that. You kill someone on the PK server and you are flagged as a murderer. The act is also very deliberate -- you can't just click on another player and start killing. You must use a key-mouse comination. This avoids accidental PK scenarios. At that point several things happen:
1) You no longer can group or belong to a guild until you "work off" your murderer status. You do this by questing and dying at the hands of other players.
2) As soon as you are flagged as a murderer, others can attack you without PK penalties. In other words, you become fair game.
3) You are de-buffed in a few other aspects of the game until your murderer status is removed.
I think its a great system and I rarely see people going around on a killing spree. This is probably due to the fact that you can't participate in the areas that have good loot, because they are group areas and you are barred from grouping. If you choose to be a murderer most of the time, that's OK but your character's life will be very lonely.
I'm not playing the beta of DF yet, but I suspect the devs tried to implement more of a PK system as opposed to a PvP system (someone please correct me if I'm wrong -- I'm just speculating). PvP and PK are NOT the same. PvP is by design consentual in the sense that you choose to be in a PvP or non-PvP area on a server. On a purely PK server, you are killable whether you like it or not. The only way to avoid it is to log off.
So, to make a long post short
, I agree that the rogue system could be replaced with a murderer penalty and everyone would be much happier (maybe) 
Despite what people tell you, Darkfall *IS* a carebear game.
Why? Because the combat mechanics allows people to run. The game encourages people to chugg potions, eat foods and RUN from danger. Little if any mezzing in the game. I contend that games with mezzes are less carebear than Darkfall. Only the bad players will die and they are probably wearing crap too. I'll bet people will carry around hundreds of junk in their packs just to piss their killers off....drag drop...drag drop....
Yep, JUST like in UO. 68 bags of various colors spring to mind hehe.
Also potion tiemr is 45 seconds so thats been fixed pretty well, the running makes for dynamic combat, and is a necesity considering the rules of the game.
If u call that Carebear, as opposed to, "im dead, ding im alive, back to fighting" which is the norm then I shudder to think about what game u would want to play.
Originally Darkfall was supposed to have Perma-death, maybe that would be more ro ur liking.
-Darkstar
Sorry but this must be one most stupid replys on whats carebear and hardcore is ever, you obvious have no clue what carebear means.
Go play wow arena or CS, Darkfall is is absolutly not for you nub.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
The fact that most spell schools have similar attack spells is there to make them balanced.
Pretty much all of the rest of the spells are unique in each school.
-Darkstar
you can make your own clan cities at a clan stone just not anywere you want i think people were mad about that i really hate the mod AI and ping
hehe nice trick, I plan on dying a lot so I will remember to do that
About the running, seems to be a bit stupid.. guys running for 10 minutes or more after someone in almost all the videos. Hope there is something else.
Clan cities are in the game, tested and working in beta. There are videos of it on youtube.
Why comment when you can't read. The 'cities' that are in the game were placed by the devs. They were not built from the ground up.
um... no. you have some serious wrong facts here.
My guild built a hamlet from the ground up.
The GMs placed nothing.
every city was built from the ground up by guild that harvested the mats themselves.
I am in beta.
You are spewing lies.
Without having played DF in beta I agree with the OP to a certain amount. I believe there are some lessons that could of been taken from UO that DF has failed to implement at this point. However, every game has a different formula and I have a hard time generalizing all of the positives of UO to DF and believing that it would work properly. Furthemore, the OP is making the mistake by generalizing that all players are playing for the same reasons. When I played UO I didn't view it as a gank fest that you had to struggle to compete with other players. I did my crafting and housing stuff and was usually left alone. I feel a lot of people will play DF for other reasons than PvP. Just because it is a skill based sandbox game doesn't mean the only thing to do in it is PvP. I love exploring and loot gathering with the real possibility of danger. I know when to call it quits and play it safe, those who don't are the ones who get frusterated.
Clan cities are in the game, tested and working in beta. There are videos of it on youtube.
Why comment when you can't read. The 'cities' that are in the game were placed by the devs. They were not built from the ground up.
omfg.
Really? And who exactly fed you this tripe?
I call it tripe because it is absolute BS, and you and the person who has informed you are completely moronic.
Christ.
Edit: for the ill-informed, in case you haven't already grasped it-- clans have been building up their own cities and hamlets in beta WITHOUT the assistance or intervention of the Devs.
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Games looking forward to: Fallen Earth, Mortal Online
The noob formally not known as not being the formally not unkown known APEist; The Stone Cold Killer of Tarq.
Yes the OP is full of BS. I am also in beta and no guild has been "given" a city by the devs. Also the only place that I saw that macroing was a problem is with gathering skills which you will find in any game. As for magic the only macroing I have ever seen is with mana missle which is only macroing lesser magic and I havn't seen many people do it. Other then mana missle and heal self (the two starter spells) spells require rengrets which deturs alot of people from being able to macro anything other then lesser magic because they can not afford the rengrets.
Currently Playing:nothing Have Played: WoW GW LoTRO Last Chaos Maple story 2 Moons Lunia Perfect World Archlord Silkroad FFXI EQII Vanguard Age of Conan
I m neither for or against this game, as I could care less to ever play it. That said if most of this is the case I could see people being extremly bored within a month or 2. The hardcore won t but alot of people thinking this game is something more then it actually is will be. I remember in the early days of DAOC it as an amazing game got a little repetitive, then DF was added, then SI was added(after that well it sucked) What i m getting at is DF added a huge reason to rvr, take control of keeps etc. SI added some great dungeons and encounters for loot . What the point is, no matter how much you love pk ing it will get boring if thats the main reason to log in. WAR itself is slowly adding stuff to counteract such things while improving it s ORVR. Hope the people looking forward to this game have what they want, but the majority, IMO will be bored fast if such things aren t implemented. Guild cities fighting over gets boring as well, SB proved this as usually 1-3 guilds owned the server.
Not all the Clan stones are in the game. Maxxing out your skills wont take days it will take months and months, They deteriotate over time so if you log out for a couple days to a week or so your skill lvl in that certain skill will diminish. Players can build houses but it has to be in your clan city. Like you said not all materials and ect are in the game. That is so people dont get ahead of other people and know where everything is already. Unfair advantage in a game like this.
This game wont get boring as it will take months to build your cities. It seems you want all your stuff handed down to you. If you want that join WoW. Im sick of games that hold your damn hands and you dont have to do jack squat.
Long live Darkfall!
The one thing I don't really like about DF is the macroing I'm reading about.
Since it would be extremely easy to code so that players couldn't macro, I have to assume that Aventurine Devs are well aware of the mechanic and in fact, encourage it.
As this is the case, I can't support the game.
Some folks say patches are coming to resolve the issue, if so I'll revisit playing the game.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Won t happen no matter how much the fanbois claim it will. One of the best games I ever played AC was riddled with it. It s like a kid wanting to get booze underage, if they want it they ll get it somehow. Macroing will always be alive in this game. AV won t do anything about it, because they ll lose to many subs, which they can t afford.