PvP is fine as long as it's on a separate server, I cannot comprehend the PvE gets boring argument. I've always found plenty to do, but then I'm not the type who just blows through content to get to the top levels.
I was saddend to see a DC Universe video where a Dev stated that the primary focus would be PvP, completely killed my interest in it.
@imershon Sorry, that´s just not true. PvE and PvP allready ARE combined in some MMOs and it´s good and accepted. For example Dark Age of Camelot and World of Warcraft separate PvE-Areas and PvP-Battlegrounds. In PvE-Areas you allways have the choice wheather you turn on PvP (or accept a challenge) or not. It´s YOUR choice that makes it playable and enjoyable. Maybe it´s different in other MMOs, but there definitely IS a good combination with PvE and PvP!
The PvP in WoW - at least on the normal servers - isn't really PvP, it's optional, and the battlegrounds are really RvR, which is a much different beast . People don't mind that, there's nothing 'offensive' about arenas and RvR battlegrounds - if you don't want to participate, then you don't.
The "PvP" many of us don't like, is something much more heinous, it's the PvP as implemented in Darkfall, or in existing games like World of Kung Fu, where after you reach a specific level, you can be killed by anyone at any time while doing anything.
In WoKF I was killed while I was opening a chest as part of a quest, the guy was 25 levels above me, and I was the bare minimum level for being a PvP target, he ran past me, one-hit me, macro-spammed a 'haha' message, then ran away. Is that good gameplay? No.
PvP is fine as long as it's on a separate server, I cannot comprehend the PvE gets boring argument. I've always found plenty to do, but then I'm not the type who just blows through content to get to the top levels. I was saddend to see a DC Universe video where a Dev stated that the primary focus would be PvP, completely killed my interest in it.
I had the same reaction to that information about DC Universe. I still might give it a try, especially if things change between now and release of the game.
What Happened With SWG Went Down YEARS AGO! Please Try To Stop Whining About It In Every Thread I Read. Mourn It, And Finally MOVE ON With Your Lives! Thanks A Heap.
PvP is fine as long as it's on a separate server, I cannot comprehend the PvE gets boring argument. I've always found plenty to do, but then I'm not the type who just blows through content to get to the top levels. I was saddend to see a DC Universe video where a Dev stated that the primary focus would be PvP, completely killed my interest in it.
I had the same reaction to that information about DC Universe. I still might give it a try, especially if things change between now and release of the game.
My thinking (not being a PvP fan) was at least they have put the combat in a PvE context. If it was just FFA I would have ruled it out instantly, as it is, it might still be worth a try.
This was a great topic for me to moderate, because I think that all MMOs should have equal parts of both.
There is nothing better than sneaking up on an unsuspecting player and sniping them in the back or mowing them down with sheer strength... or standing firm healing yourself while they rail against your wards and drain all of their power. And then you nuke 'em good!
Oh. And questing is fun, too!
Actually I find that cowardly and will avoid doing that if I can as it seems somewhat "less than".
Other than that I love pvp competition and very large battles.
But ganking? Sorry, I'd rather log out and do anything else.
Lol, there's no such thing as chivarly in a mmo, gankers will be gankers. Who said just because someone ganks, they dont have mad skills anyways. You could be the most renound PVP'er in the land and still want to backstab someone given the opportunity. It's just like hunting dear, its not like you would go up to a dear and punch it in the face to invoke a fair fight, no, you shoot it while trying to remain unseen.
One may consider it "cowardly" But even if that is true, it can't be denied that it adds to the level of depth, these dynamics letting players choose how to play is what makes MMORPG's so great. Let the cowards shoot people in the backs. But just hope that if you survive, that the "Coward" isn't in fact able to own you straight up.
On the PVP vs PVE subject. I think PVP is much more rewarding when you have a strong PVE with it, because that really blends the two together. It would be boring to put people into a empty forest with no NPC's, no creatures, just flat land, and say "Go at it, kill eachtoher till you find another pvp game" No. Most PVP'ers would be interested in exploring, maybe go on a fun journey, kill some mobs, find a cave with some cool treasure and creatures. Then in the midst of fighting something, a player of another faction or race comes in and tries to kill you so you half to multitask your PVE enemy with you player enemy. This is truly the highlight of PVP/PVE interaction for me.
Or better yet when your enemy has a similar goal as you so they may come in and help you a little towards your goal, then look out because it may get dirty after you help eachother with your goals.
These are actually all reasons why I am sort of turned off by both Aion, and Darkfall. Aion says it has an amazing mix of PVE/PVP, with incentives to do large scale PVP battles in the middle of raiding a NPC faction. But it is so "Set up" That for end game content, it seems too superficial. There are no "Unexpectencies" because you are going in hoping that another faction is there to interrupt. It is too controlled and not allowing for many different scenaries in the world. It is almost as if being led to a quest "Expecting" an enemy ambush, because it is given incentive. While it is nice and does open up big potential to some mixed up PVP, it is overly implied, hence losing it's more worldly/meaningfullness. I guess I would describe it as more "Game mechanic guided" Then "Player situation driven"
With Darkfall, although I love the sandbox concepts, the PVE is amazingly shallow, time will only tell how I will see darkfall in the future, but as of now, I am waiting to see how it evolves.
I voted for a good mix of PVE and PVP. Down the middle.
Neither is more important than the other, both are vital functions of a robust dynamic MMORPG.
That being said, PvP without a PvE background is merely multiplayer. In an MMORPG, PvP without economy, market, crafting, rp, etc... is pointless. The people who don't necessarily like PvP that much are the people who build the community in which PvP becomes meaningful and fun.
Exactly, that said I would like to add that one needs to drive the other.
It's either the typical WoW clone or nothing out there imho.
In my last MMO, Warhammer Online, there was a bit to get started and push you towards endgame. But when you get there, zzzzzzz.
So I left and am in search of a decent MMO. Now Darkfall seems to be trying something different, yet I'll hold opinion until I get in.
I voted PvP focus with a little PvE because I truely think that PvP should push the world. Yet without some PvE then there can be no PvP.
So it's the seperating of the two that IS the problem of the modern MMO. Firstly you have PvP with all it's griefing and gets rid of your new players quickly. Yet by having the two areas interacting with each is yet to be seen or done well.
At the end of the day I see alot of people moving from game to game getting bored way too quickly. When you see a game that can achieve the best of both worlds, then the WoW's and War's will be looked back on like Pong, on the first bat is PvP and the Second PvE.
Who will win, when they make it three or four bats per game and you don't see MMO's as Black and White.
Neither is more important than the other, both are vital functions of a robust dynamic MMORPG. That being said, PvP without a PvE background is merely multiplayer. In an MMORPG, PvP without economy, market, crafting, rp, etc... is pointless. The people who don't necessarily like PvP that much are the people who build the community in which PvP becomes meaningful and fun.
Exactly, that said I would like to add that one needs to drive the other.
It's either the typical WoW clone or nothing out there imho.
In my last MMO, Warhammer Online, there was a bit to get started and push you towards endgame. But when you get there, zzzzzzz.
So I left and am in search of a decent MMO. Now Darkfall seems to be trying something different, yet I'll hold opinion until I get in.
I voted PvP focus with a little PvE because I truely think that PvP should push the world. Yet without some PvE then there can be no PvP.
So it's the seperating of the two that IS the problem of the modern MMO. Firstly you have PvP with all it's griefing and gets rid of your new players quickly. Yet by having the two areas interacting with each is yet to be seen or done well.
At the end of the day I see alot of people moving from game to game getting bored way too quickly. When you see a game that can achieve the best of both worlds, then the WoW's and War's will be looked back on like Pong, on the first bat is PvP and the Second PvE.
Who will win, when they make it three or four bats per game and you don't see MMO's as Black and White.
Comments
PvP is fine as long as it's on a separate server, I cannot comprehend the PvE gets boring argument. I've always found plenty to do, but then I'm not the type who just blows through content to get to the top levels.
I was saddend to see a DC Universe video where a Dev stated that the primary focus would be PvP, completely killed my interest in it.
The PvP in WoW - at least on the normal servers - isn't really PvP, it's optional, and the battlegrounds are really RvR, which is a much different beast . People don't mind that, there's nothing 'offensive' about arenas and RvR battlegrounds - if you don't want to participate, then you don't.
The "PvP" many of us don't like, is something much more heinous, it's the PvP as implemented in Darkfall, or in existing games like World of Kung Fu, where after you reach a specific level, you can be killed by anyone at any time while doing anything.
In WoKF I was killed while I was opening a chest as part of a quest, the guy was 25 levels above me, and I was the bare minimum level for being a PvP target, he ran past me, one-hit me, macro-spammed a 'haha' message, then ran away. Is that good gameplay? No.
I had the same reaction to that information about DC Universe. I still might give it a try, especially if things change between now and release of the game.
What Happened With SWG Went Down YEARS AGO! Please Try To Stop Whining About It In Every Thread I Read. Mourn It, And Finally MOVE ON With Your Lives! Thanks A Heap.
I had the same reaction to that information about DC Universe. I still might give it a try, especially if things change between now and release of the game.
My thinking (not being a PvP fan) was at least they have put the combat in a PvE context. If it was just FFA I would have ruled it out instantly, as it is, it might still be worth a try.
Actually I find that cowardly and will avoid doing that if I can as it seems somewhat "less than".
Other than that I love pvp competition and very large battles.
But ganking? Sorry, I'd rather log out and do anything else.
Lol, there's no such thing as chivarly in a mmo, gankers will be gankers. Who said just because someone ganks, they dont have mad skills anyways. You could be the most renound PVP'er in the land and still want to backstab someone given the opportunity. It's just like hunting dear, its not like you would go up to a dear and punch it in the face to invoke a fair fight, no, you shoot it while trying to remain unseen.
One may consider it "cowardly" But even if that is true, it can't be denied that it adds to the level of depth, these dynamics letting players choose how to play is what makes MMORPG's so great. Let the cowards shoot people in the backs. But just hope that if you survive, that the "Coward" isn't in fact able to own you straight up.
On the PVP vs PVE subject. I think PVP is much more rewarding when you have a strong PVE with it, because that really blends the two together. It would be boring to put people into a empty forest with no NPC's, no creatures, just flat land, and say "Go at it, kill eachtoher till you find another pvp game" No. Most PVP'ers would be interested in exploring, maybe go on a fun journey, kill some mobs, find a cave with some cool treasure and creatures. Then in the midst of fighting something, a player of another faction or race comes in and tries to kill you so you half to multitask your PVE enemy with you player enemy. This is truly the highlight of PVP/PVE interaction for me.
Or better yet when your enemy has a similar goal as you so they may come in and help you a little towards your goal, then look out because it may get dirty after you help eachother with your goals.
These are actually all reasons why I am sort of turned off by both Aion, and Darkfall. Aion says it has an amazing mix of PVE/PVP, with incentives to do large scale PVP battles in the middle of raiding a NPC faction. But it is so "Set up" That for end game content, it seems too superficial. There are no "Unexpectencies" because you are going in hoping that another faction is there to interrupt. It is too controlled and not allowing for many different scenaries in the world. It is almost as if being led to a quest "Expecting" an enemy ambush, because it is given incentive. While it is nice and does open up big potential to some mixed up PVP, it is overly implied, hence losing it's more worldly/meaningfullness. I guess I would describe it as more "Game mechanic guided" Then "Player situation driven"
With Darkfall, although I love the sandbox concepts, the PVE is amazingly shallow, time will only tell how I will see darkfall in the future, but as of now, I am waiting to see how it evolves.
I voted for a good mix of PVE and PVP. Down the middle.
Originally posted by dhayes68
Neither is more important than the other, both are vital functions of a robust dynamic MMORPG.
That being said, PvP without a PvE background is merely multiplayer. In an MMORPG, PvP without economy, market, crafting, rp, etc... is pointless. The people who don't necessarily like PvP that much are the people who build the community in which PvP becomes meaningful and fun.
Exactly, that said I would like to add that one needs to drive the other.
It's either the typical WoW clone or nothing out there imho.
In my last MMO, Warhammer Online, there was a bit to get started and push you towards endgame. But when you get there, zzzzzzz.
So I left and am in search of a decent MMO. Now Darkfall seems to be trying something different, yet I'll hold opinion until I get in.
I voted PvP focus with a little PvE because I truely think that PvP should push the world. Yet without some PvE then there can be no PvP.
So it's the seperating of the two that IS the problem of the modern MMO. Firstly you have PvP with all it's griefing and gets rid of your new players quickly. Yet by having the two areas interacting with each is yet to be seen or done well.
At the end of the day I see alot of people moving from game to game getting bored way too quickly. When you see a game that can achieve the best of both worlds, then the WoW's and War's will be looked back on like Pong, on the first bat is PvP and the Second PvE.
Who will win, when they make it three or four bats per game and you don't see MMO's as Black and White.
Now that I look forward to seeing
Exactly, that said I would like to add that one needs to drive the other.
It's either the typical WoW clone or nothing out there imho.
In my last MMO, Warhammer Online, there was a bit to get started and push you towards endgame. But when you get there, zzzzzzz.
So I left and am in search of a decent MMO. Now Darkfall seems to be trying something different, yet I'll hold opinion until I get in.
I voted PvP focus with a little PvE because I truely think that PvP should push the world. Yet without some PvE then there can be no PvP.
So it's the seperating of the two that IS the problem of the modern MMO. Firstly you have PvP with all it's griefing and gets rid of your new players quickly. Yet by having the two areas interacting with each is yet to be seen or done well.
At the end of the day I see alot of people moving from game to game getting bored way too quickly. When you see a game that can achieve the best of both worlds, then the WoW's and War's will be looked back on like Pong, on the first bat is PvP and the Second PvE.
Who will win, when they make it three or four bats per game and you don't see MMO's as Black and White.
Now that I look forward to seeing