If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. Samuel Adams
It should have been able to handle a small influx of ppl. Maybe they went a little overboard on the limited pre-order.
$_$ sign's will do it I guess.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
I just hope the negative stigma that goes along with the failed launch doesn't cripple Adventurine too much. Although, if they had just tested their systems ahead of time, and listened to players in beta that reported exploits that, as of yet, have not been commented on by Adventurine, alot of this could have been avoided.
I have to aggree, they have no excuses really. They decided to limit beta to family and friends whilst relying on "simulated" testers aka bots.
The fact that they decided to limit the amount of people that could play the game was a sign that they knew in their hearts this game should not be launching at this time. I
n my opinion they have demonstrated a complete lack of confidence in their own product. There was limited testing, limited information about the REAL state of the game during it's beta stages and a NDA in force until a few days before launch. Non of this says to me "look at our amazing product, see how proud of it we are".
These guys really have drawn on UO ethos by charging people to beta test. I do not wish them to fail, but they have no-one to blame other than themselves IF they do fail.
Just to let you in on it....beta ran amazing the last week of it. The problems they are facing right now is an older bug that was fixed in beta. It has nothing to do with the server capacity and everything that processes how the MOB server and Player server talk to each other. It is a bug not a stability issue.
Since I got in yesterday morning around 2:30 am est I have no experienced any crazy pings or fps issues in the game. That is even with 100+ players running around on my screen. The fps and ping remained the same. I ping the server between 80-120 and I live in the US. Without shadows on the game runs consistently at 125-150 fps. If I turn shadows on it dumps to about 60 however.
The problem with the servers came from not testing the last patch they put on. We as beta testers never even got a chance to test it before it hit live.
So yes it is still their fault that the servers aren't up and tested. You can't go around sreaming that they didn't stress test the server based on sync issues. It's just and old patch bug that came back.
I think a test server would be nice to have for testing these patches and future patches to come. But I don't see that happening. Bugs will aways pop up from time to time, but not fully testing a patch before giving it out to the public will only increase the chance for them in the future.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Just to let you in on it....beta ran amazing the last week of it. The problems they are facing right now is an older bug that was fixed in beta. It has nothing to do with the server capacity and everything that processes how the MOB server and Player server talk to each other. It is a bug not a stability issue. Since I got in yesterday morning around 2:30 am est I have no experienced any crazy pings or fps issues in the game. That is even with 100+ players running around on my screen. The fps and ping remained the same. I ping the server between 80-120 and I live in the US. Without shadows on the game runs consistently at 125-150 fps. If I turn shadows on it dumps to about 60 however. The problem with the servers came from not testing the last patch they put on. We as beta testers never even got a chance to test it before it hit live. So yes it is still their fault that the servers aren't up and tested. You can't go around sreaming that they didn't stress test the server based on sync issues. It's just and old patch bug that came back.
Did they put 10k+ players on the Beta server at one time?
I think that was the OP's point.
Everyone being honest from Beta was saying they had at max. 3k playing concurrently in Beta.
So, now at Release they try to add 3x the players and turn on features that weren't tested in Beta (i.e. max. graphics settings).
That's what the OP meant by not stress-testing.
One other thing. How is the human "black-hole" bug related to sync?
I think a test server would be nice to have for testing these patches and future patches to come. But I don't see that happening. Bugs will aways pop up from time to time, but not fully testing a patch before giving it out to the public will only increase the chance for them in the future.
Yes.
Every professional MMO eventually goes to a full-fledged test server. Once Funcom implemented their test server it helped cut down on a lot of issues.
A "quick-fix" doesn't do the players any favors if it crashes the server.
I think the 10k per server is just a "theory of wishful thinking". It has not been proven by them that they can pull it off. (removing NPC's so they can add more peeps don't help in that dept ) And can you really see 10k people farming on what little mobs there are. If they had to limit npc's then they are not going to add more mob's.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Its really easy to make an oversight. I've been in that stituation, but in Ave's case they were probably feeling the financial crunch to release... they did some hardware level stress testing and some player stress testing, but from the looks of it they had a lot more interest in the game than they were planning.
It happens a LOT, I accumulated over a month of free play time at WoW's launch because there was chains of days that WoW was unplayable... If Blizzard can make server mistakes, Id like to think a small indy company can be given a little slack.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
I think the 10k per server is just a "theory of wishful thinking". It has not been proven by them that they can pull it off. (removing NPC's so they can add more peeps don't help in that dept ) And can you really see 10k people farming on what little mobs there are. If they had to limit npc's then they are not going to add more mob's.
I fully agree.
I have been saying for a few weeks now that they will have to drastically cut their target goal of 10k+ per server. They have shown they can make 3k +/- work.
I think they should cap the server at 3k concurrent logins and implement queues until they get more servers online.
For one even Blizzard had to do this... and that seemed to work out o.k. for them.
Secondly, it is in line with what Tasos said they were going to do a couple weeks ago:
"We won’t try to support more users than we can guarantee a good gameplay experience for..." Tasos
Its really easy to make an oversight. I've been in that stituation, but in Ave's case they were probably feeling the financial crunch to release... they did some hardware level stress testing and some player stress testing, but from the looks of it they had a lot more interest in the game than they were planning. It happens a LOT, I accumulated over a month of free play time at WoW's launch because there was chains of days that WoW was unplayable... If Blizzard can make server mistakes, Id like to think a small indy company can be given a little slack.
I don't think that people are mad that the launch was so bad. What they are mad about is having no news updates. Everyone keeps saying "they don't have time to post updates, they are fixing stuff". Bah, it would take five minutes tops to post some sort of progress report on the site.
Don't waste the time posting updates in the forum so it can be lost in the droves of garbage, that's why they have a website.
It's a Jeep thing. . . _______ |___| \_______/ = |||||| = |X| \*........*/ |X| |X|_________|X| You wouldn't understand
It happens a LOT, I accumulated over a month of free play time at WoW's launch because there was chains of days that WoW was unplayable... If Blizzard can make server mistakes, Id like to think a small indy company can be given a little slack.
No way. You might have accumulated a month of free time in the past 4+ years, but not at launch. No server was down that much. I lost a total of 5 days max, (in two months) and I was on KT, one of the busiest in the game. (even now)
And even then, when my server was down, I just jumped on another. I had alts all over and ended up leveling to 60 on 3 different ones as a result.
While it did happen, you cannot compare it to what's going on with DF right now. (except maybe the loot lag issue, that was highly annoying, and took quite awhile to resolve)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Stop fearmongering a horrible 1 week after a mmo launch isn't out of the ordinary.
But yeah, Aventurine are the fools that don't stress test a server. All of the issues that will emerge in the following weeks are issues we all highlighted in beta, and we BEGGED for a delay, of atleast a month. But they launched and they deserve all the sh!t they are getting
Umm you know why right? Once they opened up the orders, I would day that 75% of the near 200 people I played beta with in an alliance stopped logging in. LAst 2 days, almost noone logged in Everyone figured, why continue grinding when the wipe is a few days away and I will have to grind all over.
Did they put 10k+ players on the Beta server at one time?
News flash, genius. You can load test a server with out having 10,000 people on a server.
News Flash!
Apparently the method that Aventurine tried.... DIDN'T WORK!
Yeah, there may be other methods to do it without actual players... however sometimes the simplest is the best. Hard to beat just plain ol' raw players loading up the server and watch where the server craps out.
It's worked for many MMOs since I started playing them back before UO was released.
Really it's not rocket science.
Perhaps you can expound upon the merits of Aventurine's methodology of server capacity testing?
I'm interested to hear what innovations they have brought to the genre on this matter.
How soon do you think we'll be seeing other MMOs try and emulate their server capactity testing?
I don't blame tester's, they did there job. The sooner they fix this the better. And they really need to get a few more servers on-line because having all your sub's on one server kinda suk's (if that server goes down for what ever reason all your paying peep's are left out in the cold). Spread it out and limit the damage.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Did they put 10k+ players on the Beta server at one time?
News flash, genius. You can load test a server with out having 10,000 people on a server.
News Flash!
Apparently the method that Aventurine tried.... DIDN'T WORK!
Yeah, there may be other methods to do it without actual players... however sometimes the simplest is the best. Hard to beat just plain ol' raw players loading up the server and watch where the server craps out.
It's worked for many MMOs since I started playing them back before UO was released.
Really it's not rocket science.
Perhaps you can expound upon the merits of Aventurine's methodology of server capacity testing?
I'm interested to hear what innovations they have brought to the genre on this matter.
How soon do you think we'll be seeing other MMOs try and emulate their server capactity testing?
I'll check back for answers.
It doesn't have anything to do with server capacity. The sync issues are (were during beta, and as far as I know) related to certain hardware configurations. Chances are that these configurations were missed in beta testing, considering that the sync issues were fixed in beta and reappeared in release.
You don't need 10,000 people logged onto a server to load test it. You can find the max amount of processor load/network load that a client puts on the server and simulate it. Don't know what I'm talking about? Google it.
Creating 10,000 accounts, having 10,000 people download the 9GB client, dealing with other issues they might face and having them all log on at the same time is NOT the simplest method to load test a server.
I'll say it again: the problem has nothing to do with how many players the server can hold.
I don't think that people are mad that the launch was so bad. What they are mad about is having no news updates. Everyone keeps saying "they don't have time to post updates, they are fixing stuff". Bah, it would take five minutes tops to post some sort of progress report on the site. Don't waste the time posting updates in the forum so it can be lost in the droves of garbage, that's why they have a website.
^^This. Not knowing if they're back up in 5 min, 5 hrs or 5 days for that matter is what annoys me.
Comments
These kind.
Im trying to think of a creative/witty answer, but all i can think of is... adventurine
hope this helps
Its hardcore!!!!!!!!!
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
Samuel Adams
The paying aside.. because they didnt test shit properly people have been exploiting now and i really doubt they will whipe
It should have been able to handle a small influx of ppl. Maybe they went a little overboard on the limited pre-order.
$_$ sign's will do it I guess.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
I feel almost bad for them, almost. But, they deserve most the bitching. We shouldn't have to pay to be stress testing.
I just hope the negative stigma that goes along with the failed launch doesn't cripple Adventurine too much. Although, if they had just tested their systems ahead of time, and listened to players in beta that reported exploits that, as of yet, have not been commented on by Adventurine, alot of this could have been avoided.
I have to aggree, they have no excuses really. They decided to limit beta to family and friends whilst relying on "simulated" testers aka bots.
The fact that they decided to limit the amount of people that could play the game was a sign that they knew in their hearts this game should not be launching at this time. I
n my opinion they have demonstrated a complete lack of confidence in their own product. There was limited testing, limited information about the REAL state of the game during it's beta stages and a NDA in force until a few days before launch. Non of this says to me "look at our amazing product, see how proud of it we are".
These guys really have drawn on UO ethos by charging people to beta test. I do not wish them to fail, but they have no-one to blame other than themselves IF they do fail.
Just to let you in on it....beta ran amazing the last week of it. The problems they are facing right now is an older bug that was fixed in beta. It has nothing to do with the server capacity and everything that processes how the MOB server and Player server talk to each other. It is a bug not a stability issue.
Since I got in yesterday morning around 2:30 am est I have no experienced any crazy pings or fps issues in the game. That is even with 100+ players running around on my screen. The fps and ping remained the same. I ping the server between 80-120 and I live in the US. Without shadows on the game runs consistently at 125-150 fps. If I turn shadows on it dumps to about 60 however.
The problem with the servers came from not testing the last patch they put on. We as beta testers never even got a chance to test it before it hit live.
So yes it is still their fault that the servers aren't up and tested. You can't go around sreaming that they didn't stress test the server based on sync issues. It's just and old patch bug that came back.
Arrogant, naïve morons? Did you think Aventurine was anything else?
I think a test server would be nice to have for testing these patches and future patches to come. But I don't see that happening. Bugs will aways pop up from time to time, but not fully testing a patch before giving it out to the public will only increase the chance for them in the future.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Did they put 10k+ players on the Beta server at one time?
I think that was the OP's point.
Everyone being honest from Beta was saying they had at max. 3k playing concurrently in Beta.
So, now at Release they try to add 3x the players and turn on features that weren't tested in Beta (i.e. max. graphics settings).
That's what the OP meant by not stress-testing.
One other thing. How is the human "black-hole" bug related to sync?
Yes.
Every professional MMO eventually goes to a full-fledged test server. Once Funcom implemented their test server it helped cut down on a lot of issues.
A "quick-fix" doesn't do the players any favors if it crashes the server.
I think the 10k per server is just a "theory of wishful thinking". It has not been proven by them that they can pull it off. (removing NPC's so they can add more peeps don't help in that dept ) And can you really see 10k people farming on what little mobs there are. If they had to limit npc's then they are not going to add more mob's.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Its really easy to make an oversight. I've been in that stituation, but in Ave's case they were probably feeling the financial crunch to release... they did some hardware level stress testing and some player stress testing, but from the looks of it they had a lot more interest in the game than they were planning.
It happens a LOT, I accumulated over a month of free play time at WoW's launch because there was chains of days that WoW was unplayable... If Blizzard can make server mistakes, Id like to think a small indy company can be given a little slack.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
I fully agree.
I have been saying for a few weeks now that they will have to drastically cut their target goal of 10k+ per server. They have shown they can make 3k +/- work.
I think they should cap the server at 3k concurrent logins and implement queues until they get more servers online.
For one even Blizzard had to do this... and that seemed to work out o.k. for them.
Secondly, it is in line with what Tasos said they were going to do a couple weeks ago:
"We won’t try to support more users than we can guarantee a good gameplay experience for..." Tasos
www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/4/feature/2708/Darkfall-Online-Interview.html
News flash, genius. You can load test a server with out having 10,000 people on a server.
I don't think that people are mad that the launch was so bad. What they are mad about is having no news updates. Everyone keeps saying "they don't have time to post updates, they are fixing stuff". Bah, it would take five minutes tops to post some sort of progress report on the site.
Don't waste the time posting updates in the forum so it can be lost in the droves of garbage, that's why they have a website.
_______
|___
\_______/
=
|X| \*........*/ |X|
|X|_________|X|
You wouldn't understand
No way. You might have accumulated a month of free time in the past 4+ years, but not at launch. No server was down that much. I lost a total of 5 days max, (in two months) and I was on KT, one of the busiest in the game. (even now)
And even then, when my server was down, I just jumped on another. I had alts all over and ended up leveling to 60 on 3 different ones as a result.
While it did happen, you cannot compare it to what's going on with DF right now. (except maybe the loot lag issue, that was highly annoying, and took quite awhile to resolve)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Stop fearmongering a horrible 1 week after a mmo launch isn't out of the ordinary.
But yeah, Aventurine are the fools that don't stress test a server. All of the issues that will emerge in the following weeks are issues we all highlighted in beta, and we BEGGED for a delay, of atleast a month. But they launched and they deserve all the sh!t they are getting
When I'm energetic I'm:
the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
When I'm at default I'm:
WHITE/BLUE
Lol according to this I'm bipolar :O
News flash, genius. You can load test a server with out having 10,000 people on a server.
News Flash!
Apparently the method that Aventurine tried.... DIDN'T WORK!
Yeah, there may be other methods to do it without actual players... however sometimes the simplest is the best. Hard to beat just plain ol' raw players loading up the server and watch where the server craps out.
It's worked for many MMOs since I started playing them back before UO was released.
Really it's not rocket science.
Perhaps you can expound upon the merits of Aventurine's methodology of server capacity testing?
I'm interested to hear what innovations they have brought to the genre on this matter.
How soon do you think we'll be seeing other MMOs try and emulate their server capactity testing?
I'll check back for answers.
I don't blame tester's, they did there job. The sooner they fix this the better. And they really need to get a few more servers on-line because having all your sub's on one server kinda suk's (if that server goes down for what ever reason all your paying peep's are left out in the cold). Spread it out and limit the damage.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
News flash, genius. You can load test a server with out having 10,000 people on a server.
News Flash!
Apparently the method that Aventurine tried.... DIDN'T WORK!
Yeah, there may be other methods to do it without actual players... however sometimes the simplest is the best. Hard to beat just plain ol' raw players loading up the server and watch where the server craps out.
It's worked for many MMOs since I started playing them back before UO was released.
Really it's not rocket science.
Perhaps you can expound upon the merits of Aventurine's methodology of server capacity testing?
I'm interested to hear what innovations they have brought to the genre on this matter.
How soon do you think we'll be seeing other MMOs try and emulate their server capactity testing?
I'll check back for answers.
It doesn't have anything to do with server capacity. The sync issues are (were during beta, and as far as I know) related to certain hardware configurations. Chances are that these configurations were missed in beta testing, considering that the sync issues were fixed in beta and reappeared in release.
You don't need 10,000 people logged onto a server to load test it. You can find the max amount of processor load/network load that a client puts on the server and simulate it. Don't know what I'm talking about? Google it.
Creating 10,000 accounts, having 10,000 people download the 9GB client, dealing with other issues they might face and having them all log on at the same time is NOT the simplest method to load test a server.
I'll say it again: the problem has nothing to do with how many players the server can hold.
^^This. Not knowing if they're back up in 5 min, 5 hrs or 5 days for that matter is what annoys me.