You are guys completly missed the OP's point. All he said was that if AoC can survive a god awful launch, certainly DF can do the same. As for the hating on AoC, whatever to each his one, but the game is pretty good in it own right. PvP means something now, at least on the PvP servers, with the implementation of War and PvP resources, but on a PvE server the QQers got it removed.
DF is also good on its own. Its a good starting point for growth of a great Sandbox MMO.
Yeah seriously. I'm not a HUGE fan of AoC, but it has a LOT better potential than other games INCLUDING DF. That whole full loot thing sounds great, until you realize it's kinda not. I mean no one is going to be roaming around with worthwhile gear, and money anyways, and no instancing means what? All worthwhile mobs will just be forever down basically. I don't see the thrill in that unless your "hardcore", and lack a life outside of gaming. I'd put my money on a game with cutting-edge graphics, tons of room to grow, and a solid player-base. But I digress, since I could really care less if either game survives. Just wanted to point out the utter failure of people trying to hype up DF. It COULD be good, but really, it needs to be in someone else's hands I think. Like ANYONE.
Its not a PVE game...when will people complaining about mob camping, loot and quests realize this. Yea it has monsters and it has some piddly quests but it is NOT a PVE game. Its PVP game you won't have super uber leet loot ilke WoW since the best loot is craftable only. The whole idea is you choose whether you are apart of your race's community, a guild community, or a rogue community. You can be esssentially whatever you want but the game is designed around guilds duking it out against their Faction's enemy or completely removing themselves from their faction and living on the fringe of society.
I'm not saying the game is great and there's nothing wrong with it. I'm just saying atleast get the idea of the game correct before posting about "no one will have anything on them" thats total BS...people used to carry money, expensive items, and plenty of crafting resources worth money on them all the time in UO and Shadowbane.
Personally is on the fence about Darkfall but atleast its idea is way more interesting than Age of Conan.
Disclaimer: I want to start off by saying I am a fan of both games and am rooting for much success for Funcom and Aventurine.
Darkfall's launch all of a sudden makes Age of Conan's original release look flawless! I resubscribed to Age of Conan just shortly before the server mergers. My jaw dropped at how much the game as improved for the better.
Their replacement of the Lead game Designer Gaute Godager with Craig Morrison was the best thing that ever happened to Age of Conan.
Bugs started getting fixed, communication between Funcom and players started happening, and player input started becoming a reality.
The recent reports of Funcom being around (or just under) 100k subs in the CFO article was a report from 3 months ago and based on Q4 08 information. More reasonable numbers estimated from that period were closer to 140k subs.
Age of Conan has seen a steady growth of almost 25% a month since that report data.
The bleeding started to stop when Gems got disabled and continued as bugs were getting fixed.
Craig Morrison added PvP XP / Gear, announced Server mergers, and released one of the greatest success of AoC since their launch: 1.04 Content patch.
Population increased from 100k-140k (estimates from DnB in the Maximum PC CFO resignation article on 23rd and other estimates from reputable sources/members ) to current numbers of 180k-200k subs in a matter of 3 months.
CURRENT activity on game monitoring sites has Conan # 9 out of all the MMOs online.
It has stayed in the top 50 of all games monitored for the past 60 days.
This is a HUGE jump compared to what we were seeing on the same sites in Oct./Nov 08.
What's the point? Aventurine can survive through a bad launch as well. Other games have done it however this is 2008 and 2009. People expect a SMOOTHER launch then what happened in 2003 and 2004 with other MMOs.
If you enjoy the concepts presented in Darkfall and have the patience to wait out all these growing pains you will get a good game with an active community that is going to increase in fun as time passes.
Did they fix crafting in AOC? and make siege battles any easier to start? and did they move the PVP area in PVE; it was pointless having that seperate area you'd have no reason to go to because it was completely out of your way and empty?
I thought the game had a lot of promise but damn the content started to get boring after lvl 20/30 and by 70 I was really struggling to keep any form of interest in the game.
Why should I or anyone else pay for a game company's alfa or beta testing. What is hyped or said is going to be in a game then if it is not at launch your money should be given back. Darkfall in my opion is not even in a beta state let along release state. Maybe alfa but not even beta. Funcom on the other hand flat out lied about what was gonna be in at release and continue to hype AOC, and still what almost going on a year now there are problems. Im not gonna pay for beta's or alfa any more.
" Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Those Who Would Threaten It " MAGA
Yeah seriously. I'm not a HUGE fan of AoC, but it has a LOT better potential than other games INCLUDING DF. That whole full loot thing sounds great, until you realize it's kinda not. I mean no one is going to be roaming around with worthwhile gear, and money anyways, and no instancing means what? All worthwhile mobs will just be forever down basically. I don't see the thrill in that unless your "hardcore", and lack a life outside of gaming. I'd put my money on a game with cutting-edge graphics, tons of room to grow, and a solid player-base. But I digress, since I could really care less if either game survives. Just wanted to point out the utter failure of people trying to hype up DF. It COULD be good, but really, it needs to be in someone else's hands I think. Like ANYONE.
Its not a PVE game...when will people complaining about mob camping, loot and quests realize this. Yea it has monsters and it has some piddly quests but it is NOT a PVE game. Its PVP game you won't have super uber leet loot ilke WoW since the best loot is craftable only. The whole idea is you choose whether you are apart of your race's community, a guild community, or a rogue community. You can be esssentially whatever you want but the game is designed around guilds duking it out against their Faction's enemy or completely removing themselves from their faction and living on the fringe of society.
I'm not saying the game is great and there's nothing wrong with it. I'm just saying atleast get the idea of the game correct before posting about "no one will have anything on them" thats total BS...people used to carry money, expensive items, and plenty of crafting resources worth money on them all the time in UO and Shadowbane.
Personally is on the fence about Darkfall but atleast its idea is way more interesting than Age of Conan.
Huge fan of the crafting concept in DF. That was one of the main points about AOC I hated; you spent so much time running around doing these stupid crafting quests/farming to lvl up your crafting ability hoping that by the end you'll be able to make something decent, but in the meantime everything you make is rubbish and you just throw out. If you can't make the best gear, or at least have a chance of making the best gear crafting, then its useless puting it in the game
Darkfall hardcore free for all pvp full loot no instance savezones sandbox game.
AoC themepark no risk free for all pvp in small maps with max 50 players limited freedom gear based lvl based carebear pvp.
Choice is easy if you are true pvper Darkfall, if your a carebear AoC.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
As ive said before in numerous threads like this one already. You cannot compare the two MMos. First, noone knows what darkfall is like yet...havnt been able to get an account, log into account of play viably yet
AoC was a fine game that had flaws. Those flaws were augmented disproportionatly by the Forum community. AoC would have done well no matter Darkfalls status. AoC is now in resurgance...good for it. Darkfall is having problems...bad for it
Disclaimer: I want to start off by saying I am a fan of both games and am rooting for much success for Funcom and Aventurine.
Darkfall's launch all of a sudden makes Age of Conan's original release look flawless! I resubscribed to Age of Conan just shortly before the server mergers. My jaw dropped at how much the game as improved for the better.
Their replacement of the Lead game Designer Gaute Godager with Craig Morrison was the best thing that ever happened to Age of Conan.
Bugs started getting fixed, communication between Funcom and players started happening, and player input started becoming a reality.
The recent reports of Funcom being around (or just under) 100k subs in the CFO article was a report from 3 months ago and based on Q4 08 information. More reasonable numbers estimated from that period were closer to 140k subs.
Age of Conan has seen a steady growth of almost 25% a month since that report data.
The bleeding started to stop when Gems got disabled and continued as bugs were getting fixed.
Craig Morrison added PvP XP / Gear, announced Server mergers, and released one of the greatest success of AoC since their launch: 1.04 Content patch.
Population increased from 100k-140k (estimates from DnB in the Maximum PC CFO resignation article on 23rd and other estimates from reputable sources/members ) to current numbers of 180k-200k subs in a matter of 3 months.
CURRENT activity on game monitoring sites has Conan # 9 out of all the MMOs online.
It has stayed in the top 50 of all games monitored for the past 60 days.
This is a HUGE jump compared to what we were seeing on the same sites in Oct./Nov 08.
What's the point? Aventurine can survive through a bad launch as well. Other games have done it however this is 2008 and 2009. People expect a SMOOTHER launch then what happened in 2003 and 2004 with other MMOs.
If you enjoy the concepts presented in Darkfall and have the patience to wait out all these growing pains you will get a good game with an active community that is going to increase in fun as time passes.
I thought this was going to be another thread flaming Darkfall (which is certainly expected after whats been going on with the launch) but you made some good points. Good post!
I don't think some people understood the main topic of this thread.
This could be my fault since the title I selected might have been misleading.
The point is that AoC's first 90 days had major problems and undoubtedly Darkfall will have some major problems within the first 90 days.
AoC's main issue being their Lead Game Designer refused to talk to the community or fix the problems in a timely fashion.
All of the issues started to fixed and addressed when he was replaced.
Craig Morrison took over and really did a MAJOR overhaul on the game.
AoC has not only stopped decreasing in players but are on track to hit close to 300k players by summer.
We all know that no MMO will ever be perfected and that AoC is continuing to improve their game even more.
We also already know the PROS and CONS from both games.
This is not the point however......
What I am hoping for is success on BOTH fronts.
I am hoping that the small, out of mainstream, and very PvP oriented player base which makes up Darkfall will see some similarities and have patience.
Aventurine WILL get these issues fixed.
Yes it will happen just as AoC WILL continue to grow and improve.
The question is will the players have the patience to understand this issue and stick with the game through the rough spots?
OR will the game need to be resurrected 6 months from now when all the promised features are in the game and it's more polished?
Some would say that Aventurine doesn't have the player base size or the money to faciliate a recovery that gets new players to buy it and old players to stay while it's struggling.
Remember that AoC had the luxury of having 800k semi-mainstream base to bleed from while they turned the train wreck around and made it into a success again.
Darkfall is dealing with 10k and that is where it concerns me.
Bad launch yes but it have not failed yet. Darkfall hardcore free for all pvp full loot no instance savezones sandbox game. AoC themepark no risk free for all pvp in small maps with max 50 players limited freedom gear based lvl based carebear pvp. Choice is easy if you are true pvper Darkfall, if your a carebear AoC.
I believe you missed the point. We're talking bugs, game and server stability, etc. not the very concept of the game. Of course AoC is a "themepark" and DF is a "sandbox" and they won't change. However the thing is, AoC is very playable right now while DF is incomplete piece of crap that's been down for 2 days since th launch.
Do I want DFO to succeed? Hell yeah! But you need to stop bashing other games which are in a much better state than Darkfall currently is.
The problem with AoC still remains, I too played at release, I also quit and returned around 1-2 months ago for a few days to check in on things. Yes the game runs better, yes not any major bugs left but what still gets me and caused me to just unsubscirbe after only a week of playing just a few hours is still the absolute worthlessness of pvp. You lose NOTHING for pvp and gain NOTHING. The pvp levels are a joke, I have a 80 ranger and this is what I would do - stealth and either kill someone in 2 shots or be killed in 2 shots, res, rinse and repeat. It was stupid it was just like 20 lvl 80's taking turns killing eachother over and over because there was no penalty for living or dyeing.
Enter darkfall - People actually need to think before repeatedly killing themselves in pvp, why? because they lose there equipment, on the flip side if I actually think out my pvp and play it careful I can make a living doing it in Darkfall, in AOC its all worthless.
with new pvp seasons comming ur supposed to get new and better gear each :P pvp level dummie and the next few patches are supposed to greatly increase how much stats on items actualy affect ur character.
Age of Conan's recently found success can easily turn around if they overdue the stats and the gear.
Right now gear is a small factor in the game but the game is as balanced as it's ever been.
Sure ToS and Assassins need tuned down a bit vs. some classes but for the most part it's good.
It can easily turn into Age of Oneshot again if they're not careful.
They also need to make sure gear impacts certain specific classes and builds like Reanimation Pet necromancers. Pet abilities and damage should increase and scale with better gear.
The fact that people are still talking about Age of Conan (mostly positive in recent weeks) is a good thing for Darkfall.
It shows that the game can rebound because the game is inherently good.
It was just launched a bit too early.
I think they would have been stable with a 1/10th of the population they threw into the game but at least this launch gives them some time to tune up some fundamental and critical errors in their netcode.
They saw this coming that's why they limited how many copies they would sell inititally.
If it was someone that just wanted to take the money and run it would be a different story.
Comments
You are guys completly missed the OP's point. All he said was that if AoC can survive a god awful launch, certainly DF can do the same. As for the hating on AoC, whatever to each his one, but the game is pretty good in it own right. PvP means something now, at least on the PvP servers, with the implementation of War and PvP resources, but on a PvE server the QQers got it removed.
DF is also good on its own. Its a good starting point for growth of a great Sandbox MMO.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
Its not a PVE game...when will people complaining about mob camping, loot and quests realize this. Yea it has monsters and it has some piddly quests but it is NOT a PVE game. Its PVP game you won't have super uber leet loot ilke WoW since the best loot is craftable only. The whole idea is you choose whether you are apart of your race's community, a guild community, or a rogue community. You can be esssentially whatever you want but the game is designed around guilds duking it out against their Faction's enemy or completely removing themselves from their faction and living on the fringe of society.
I'm not saying the game is great and there's nothing wrong with it. I'm just saying atleast get the idea of the game correct before posting about "no one will have anything on them" thats total BS...people used to carry money, expensive items, and plenty of crafting resources worth money on them all the time in UO and Shadowbane.
Personally is on the fence about Darkfall but atleast its idea is way more interesting than Age of Conan.
Did they fix crafting in AOC? and make siege battles any easier to start? and did they move the PVP area in PVE; it was pointless having that seperate area you'd have no reason to go to because it was completely out of your way and empty?
I thought the game had a lot of promise but damn the content started to get boring after lvl 20/30 and by 70 I was really struggling to keep any form of interest in the game.
Why should I or anyone else pay for a game company's alfa or beta testing. What is hyped or said is going to be in a game then if it is not at launch your money should be given back. Darkfall in my opion is not even in a beta state let along release state. Maybe alfa but not even beta. Funcom on the other hand flat out lied about what was gonna be in at release and continue to hype AOC, and still what almost going on a year now there are problems. Im not gonna pay for beta's or alfa any more.
MAGA
Its not a PVE game...when will people complaining about mob camping, loot and quests realize this. Yea it has monsters and it has some piddly quests but it is NOT a PVE game. Its PVP game you won't have super uber leet loot ilke WoW since the best loot is craftable only. The whole idea is you choose whether you are apart of your race's community, a guild community, or a rogue community. You can be esssentially whatever you want but the game is designed around guilds duking it out against their Faction's enemy or completely removing themselves from their faction and living on the fringe of society.
I'm not saying the game is great and there's nothing wrong with it. I'm just saying atleast get the idea of the game correct before posting about "no one will have anything on them" thats total BS...people used to carry money, expensive items, and plenty of crafting resources worth money on them all the time in UO and Shadowbane.
Personally is on the fence about Darkfall but atleast its idea is way more interesting than Age of Conan.
Huge fan of the crafting concept in DF. That was one of the main points about AOC I hated; you spent so much time running around doing these stupid crafting quests/farming to lvl up your crafting ability hoping that by the end you'll be able to make something decent, but in the meantime everything you make is rubbish and you just throw out. If you can't make the best gear, or at least have a chance of making the best gear crafting, then its useless puting it in the game
I'm going to ask you one question.
Has FC revamped the rest of the game to match the pure awesomeness of the first 1-20 section of the game?
Once They do that I will try the game again.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
Bad launch yes but it have not failed yet.
Darkfall hardcore free for all pvp full loot no instance savezones sandbox game.
AoC themepark no risk free for all pvp in small maps with max 50 players limited freedom gear based lvl based carebear pvp.
Choice is easy if you are true pvper Darkfall, if your a carebear AoC.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
As ive said before in numerous threads like this one already. You cannot compare the two MMos. First, noone knows what darkfall is like yet...havnt been able to get an account, log into account of play viably yet
AoC was a fine game that had flaws. Those flaws were augmented disproportionatly by the Forum community. AoC would have done well no matter Darkfalls status. AoC is now in resurgance...good for it. Darkfall is having problems...bad for it
MMORPG Characters immortalized!
LLyncu: Star Wars Galaxies (Chimaera)
Xiode: Age of Conan (Mannanan)
I thought this was going to be another thread flaming Darkfall (which is certainly expected after whats been going on with the launch) but you made some good points. Good post!
I don't think some people understood the main topic of this thread.
This could be my fault since the title I selected might have been misleading.
The point is that AoC's first 90 days had major problems and undoubtedly Darkfall will have some major problems within the first 90 days.
AoC's main issue being their Lead Game Designer refused to talk to the community or fix the problems in a timely fashion.
All of the issues started to fixed and addressed when he was replaced.
Craig Morrison took over and really did a MAJOR overhaul on the game.
AoC has not only stopped decreasing in players but are on track to hit close to 300k players by summer.
We all know that no MMO will ever be perfected and that AoC is continuing to improve their game even more.
We also already know the PROS and CONS from both games.
This is not the point however......
What I am hoping for is success on BOTH fronts.
I am hoping that the small, out of mainstream, and very PvP oriented player base which makes up Darkfall will see some similarities and have patience.
Aventurine WILL get these issues fixed.
Yes it will happen just as AoC WILL continue to grow and improve.
The question is will the players have the patience to understand this issue and stick with the game through the rough spots?
OR will the game need to be resurrected 6 months from now when all the promised features are in the game and it's more polished?
Some would say that Aventurine doesn't have the player base size or the money to faciliate a recovery that gets new players to buy it and old players to stay while it's struggling.
Remember that AoC had the luxury of having 800k semi-mainstream base to bleed from while they turned the train wreck around and made it into a success again.
Darkfall is dealing with 10k and that is where it concerns me.
Many MMO have bad release and went good after that ( Like AO ).
But the lake of communication is very bad.
Wait & see ...
Feed the toondb.com Characters Database, generate sigs.
I believe you missed the point. We're talking bugs, game and server stability, etc. not the very concept of the game. Of course AoC is a "themepark" and DF is a "sandbox" and they won't change. However the thing is, AoC is very playable right now while DF is incomplete piece of crap that's been down for 2 days since th launch.
Do I want DFO to succeed? Hell yeah! But you need to stop bashing other games which are in a much better state than Darkfall currently is.
Preorder Diablo III | Preorder Guild Wars II
with new pvp seasons comming ur supposed to get new and better gear each :P pvp level dummie and the next few patches are supposed to greatly increase how much stats on items actualy affect ur character.
Age of Conan's recently found success can easily turn around if they overdue the stats and the gear.
Right now gear is a small factor in the game but the game is as balanced as it's ever been.
Sure ToS and Assassins need tuned down a bit vs. some classes but for the most part it's good.
It can easily turn into Age of Oneshot again if they're not careful.
They also need to make sure gear impacts certain specific classes and builds like Reanimation Pet necromancers. Pet abilities and damage should increase and scale with better gear.
The fact that people are still talking about Age of Conan (mostly positive in recent weeks) is a good thing for Darkfall.
It shows that the game can rebound because the game is inherently good.
It was just launched a bit too early.
I think they would have been stable with a 1/10th of the population they threw into the game but at least this launch gives them some time to tune up some fundamental and critical errors in their netcode.
They saw this coming that's why they limited how many copies they would sell inititally.
If it was someone that just wanted to take the money and run it would be a different story.