Nothing. Why should players be compensated because they waste time?
A group that forms quickly and gets into action in most games gets a lot more experience than solo players.
I do agree that a lot of time can be wasted finding a group. I think compensating players for this is a very poor solution and does not address the real issue.
The reason I don't like grouping alot of the time is because how long it takes to get a functioning group togeather. Also sometimes people take the game very serious in a group for some reason. Unless you do everything perfect and to there liking then you get smack talked to.
I loved grouping in COX, they did it perfect for me. It was fast to get a group, fast to get to the instance and we were all there just to kill mobs for xp and have fun instead of killing mobs for some stupid l33t trousers that if we didn't succeed then everything turned into a argument.
Players that want to solo complain that they just dont' have time to group, and "forced" grouping means they can't enjoy the game. And we see some of that in this thread.
However, is that really true?
It seems like what advocates of solo play are really saying, is "I have to be able to advance just as fast, or even FASTER that players in a group, or else I'm calling the game "forced grouping".
For example, is anyone here going to call WoW a "forced grouping game" for the early levels before you get to raiding? I don't think so.
But what if we made no other change whatsoever, but to add 10% xp for each person that joined your group, to WoW. We haven't changed the solo game at all, you can still solo all the way up to the level cap, just like you can now in WoW. But when you have two people grouped they get a 10% xp bonus, 3 peopge get 20%, 4 people get 30% bonus, and so on.
Is that a "forced grouping" game even though you can still solo?
Second. everyone should have skills or abilities that only unlock while grouped but don't work soloing. For example. Fighters get abilities that would allow them to lock them selves in place so no or limited knockdowns or tosses, Abilities for extra hits that they can't use while soloing. Rogues disarm or spot trap abilities while grouped that can't be used solo. Bards. Actually sing songs that can charm creatures while grouped, but not solo. Mage's that have abilities unlock arcane tomes which increase damage or power flow while grouped but not solo. Healers that can summon mystic beings to give benefits to the group or do extra damage that can't be summoned solo. ...
I think that the MMORPG genre is ready for some new ideas on group content and this is the way to go.
However, I wouldn't make these skills/spells toggle when the player is within a conventional group. That would still lead to the feeling of being forced into grouping in order to unlock these abilities.
In my opinion the whole group concept should be done away with and replaced with something more dynamic. Something along the following lines:
Everyone would have access to certain abilities that can only be targeted at other players, but would not require them to be in a conventional group with the caster/skill user. It doesn't matter if these abilities are assigned to classes or are acquired from a pool in a skill-based game.
These skills/spells would be like the ones isolor mentioned, allowing for a great range of beneficial and interesting effects like damage being distributed among linked players, heals effecting all those who are linked to the caster, certain abilities working together to produce greater effects if used in certain ways by members of a chain, etc.
This way you wouldn't need to find someone to group with, you'd just have to be in a place that has people. Which is a pretty simple matter in the average MMORPG.
Now I am aware that not all is perfect with this idea.
First of all, we've all had our share of unwanted people pestering us with group invites or simply "helping out" with a mob. This could be easily solved by methods already in use in most current MMORPGs. I am referring to auto-decline toggles. In most games you can auto-decline party requests, trade requests, tells, etc. There should also be a need for acceptance by the target before the link can be established. On this acceptance window there should be an option to decline all future requests from people, sort of like an ignore. This way unwanted people could be alienated (I know this sounds harsh, but as far as I'm concerned, it is necessary) and without the benefit of links, they'd find themselves at a serious disadvantage.
Another issue some might raise is the lack of a separate chat for the group. I do not think this is a problem because I am against the segregation of players by separate chat channels. But others who like to have separate channels would probably disagree.
If they are the majority, then an option would have to be added into the game allowing players to set up their own channels, with a button that invites all players who are linked to this player.
Freeing players in this way from the current, restrictive grouping concept would IMHO lead to a solution to the problem raised by the OP.
xp this and xp that, games are about fun. we should all have emotion feedback electrodes in our brains that fead data back to the server and we get more xp when having fun and less when not having fun. Thats my idea, patent pending.
xp this and xp that, games are about fun. we should all have emotion feedback electrodes in our brains that fead data back to the server and we get more xp when having fun and less when not having fun. Thats my idea, patent pending.
That is spot on my friend! One of the best post ive read on thoose forums, simple yet so accurate.
Second. everyone should have skills or abilities that only unlock while grouped but don't work soloing. For example. Fighters get abilities that would allow them to lock them selves in place so no or limited knockdowns or tosses, Abilities for extra hits that they can't use while soloing. Rogues disarm or spot trap abilities while grouped that can't be used solo. Bards. Actually sing songs that can charm creatures while grouped, but not solo. Mage's that have abilities unlock arcane tomes which increase damage or power flow while grouped but not solo. Healers that can summon mystic beings to give benefits to the group or do extra damage that can't be summoned solo. ...
I think that the MMORPG genre is ready for some new ideas on group content and this is the way to go.
However, I wouldn't make these skills/spells toggle when the player is within a conventional group. That would still lead to the feeling of being forced into grouping in order to unlock these abilities.
In my opinion the whole group concept should be done away with and replaced with something more dynamic. Something along the following lines:
Everyone would have access to certain abilities that can only be targeted at other players, but would not require them to be in a conventional group with the caster/skill user. It doesn't matter if these abilities are assigned to classes or are acquired from a pool in a skill-based game.
These skills/spells would be like the ones isolor mentioned, allowing for a great range of beneficial and interesting effects like damage being distributed among linked players, heals effecting all those who are linked to the caster, certain abilities working together to produce greater effects if used in certain ways by members of a chain, etc.
This way you wouldn't need to find someone to group with, you'd just have to be in a place that has people. Which is a pretty simple matter in the average MMORPG.
Now I am aware that not all is perfect with this idea.
First of all, we've all had our share of unwanted people pestering us with group invites or simply "helping out" with a mob. This could be easily solved by methods already in use in most current MMORPGs. I am referring to auto-decline toggles. In most games you can auto-decline party requests, trade requests, tells, etc. There should also be a need for acceptance by the target before the link can be established. On this acceptance window there should be an option to decline all future requests from people, sort of like an ignore. This way unwanted people could be alienated (I know this sounds harsh, but as far as I'm concerned, it is necessary) and without the benefit of links, they'd find themselves at a serious disadvantage.
Another issue some might raise is the lack of a separate chat for the group. I do not think this is a problem because I am against the segregation of players by separate chat channels. But others who like to have separate channels would probably disagree.
If they are the majority, then an option would have to be added into the game allowing players to set up their own channels, with a button that invites all players who are linked to this player.
Freeing players in this way from the current, restrictive grouping concept would IMHO lead to a solution to the problem raised by the OP.
I think these are both interesting suggestions.
One thing I'd like to keep about grouping is in a game like EQ or DAoC, is players coordinating their efforts when they group, not just zerging.
In otherwords, two fighters are stronger than one fighter. But no real coordination is needed. We both just whack the mobs, we dont' have to pay attention to each other or what each other is doing, or coordinate in any way.
That's very different from a tank making sure the healer doesn't get aggro, and the healer making sure the tank gets a heal at the right time, a lot more coordination.
I think kataipard is saying, add a bunch of powers that can only be used on other players. For example the fighter can "block" that is absorb damage to another player. It's useless if there are no other players around. The healer can of course heal other players with a group heal, which doens't do any good if you're solo. The nuke could have a spell that adds damage to others, but not himself, and so on.
And these would not be "buffs" not a spell you could put on someone and they run off and use it, but something that's used in combat.
And you wouldnt' even require people to "group" to use these powers, they just have to be near each other.
Players shouldn't need to plan each and every group, instead the group content should be ever present throughout the game, ready to be used by all willing participants.
Those who prefer complex strategies and planning can still plan ahead of time and use voip to coordinate their group and enhance their experience.
But this should by no means be mandatory in order to peruse the benefits of grouping.
Players shouldn't need to plan each and every group, instead the group content should be ever present throughout the game, ready to be used by all willing participants.
Those who prefer complex strategies and planning can still plan ahead of time and use voip to coordinate their group and enhance their experience.
But this should by no means be mandatory in order to peruse the benefits of grouping.
Players shouldn't need to plan each and every group, instead the group content should be ever present throughout the game, ready to be used by all willing participants.
Those who prefer complex strategies and planning can still plan ahead of time and use voip to coordinate their group and enhance their experience.
But this should by no means be mandatory in order to peruse the benefits of grouping.
How would you do XP and loot splits?
The XP reward should not be raised for those who peruse the benefits of group abilities. However, respawn rates would by all means have to be calibrated in a way that expects players to use them. Perhaps not to 100% efficiency, but using group abilities should be definitely taken as the norm. Group content should be considered as a vital, unalienable part of every MMORPG. Instead of rewarding those who use it, the whole game should be set up in a way that using it comes naturally.
Looting is a much harder nut to crack. Off the top of my head I'd say FFA would be best. Of course those who have dealt the most damage to the mob would have exclusive looting rights for a set amount of time (as seen in many current MMORPGs). These rights should be extended to those linked to this player. FFA looting would be a test of character for the players to be sure. But working together would probably develop a sense of comradeship among those who play as a team, diminishing the possibility of loot-stealing.
Plus, everyone should be able to see items being picked up by those linked to them so they can be immediately be aware of foul-play and put an end to their cooperation with the offender.
The system I proposed would quickly lead to the alienation of ninjas, loot-stealers and other various social rejects, effectively denying them access to group content. There might even be a system through which players could be evaluated by those they are linked to. Like how you can bump/bury posts on this site.
Better or faster rewards is the benefit. Being able to see content a soloer can't is the benefit. Social activity is the other benefit. Theres nothing wrong with the current system. If you don't want to group you don't. Just don't complain that you don't get the same advantages. Accept that your play style has its pros and cons. You get to pop in and play whenever you want, but your rewards are compensatory with your effort. Its only fair.
Most of the time I can't group since I have a family. When the opportunities arise I always make an effort to, since its more fun playing a MMO with other people. But I NEVER feel slighted when others get better rewards than me when they put in more effort. They deserve the extra rewards.
Frankly, I just do not see the point anymore of playing a MMORPG where I have to grind mobs purely for XP. XP should come naturally as you progress through content so when you complete enough content in an area you leveled enough to be ready for a new set of content. As such giving XP boosts for being in a grinding group seems kinda useless.
To me the purpose of grouping up is so you can do harder, more elaborate content where you have to use the strengths of your character to offset the weaknesses of another character and vice versa (ie a tank protects the healer so the helaer can keep the tank alive). As such the incentives should be structured so people want to group up for the content even if they already done it once. Some of the best non-instance groups I had involved people grouping up for one difficult quest and then going around the zone completing other group quests for our party members even though some of us have already completed those.
xp this and xp that, games are about fun. we should all have emotion feedback electrodes in our brains that fead data back to the server and we get more xp when having fun and less when not having fun. Thats my idea, patent pending.
You can add this to my patent. I want a game that will not work unless you clamp electrodes to your nipples. These electrodes will come with the game, and hook up to your computer via USB. Then, when ever you are killed in PvP, you will be shocked. Not enough to cause a heart attack, but just enough to make you swear.
An Xp bonus is appropiate- and I think WoW actually does that. The problem with WoW though is that grouping isn't seen as a valid activity while levelling up- more as a side distraction to complete the various group quests- and then move on.
I think to incent grouping, it needs to be a lower start time(which is very possible), there needs to be low barriers to grouping (aka those damn levels), those who like to group need to be incented to continue to do so(not just provide one quest and then side distraction over back to soloing).
Oh yeah another thing- stopping high lvls churning through low level content for a low level character. That person may otherwise have had to group.
Players that want to solo complain that they just dont' have time to group, and "forced" grouping means they can't enjoy the game. And we see some of that in this thread. However, is that really true? It seems like what advocates of solo play are really saying, is "I have to be able to advance just as fast, or even FASTER that players in a group, or else I'm calling the game "forced grouping".
Think of it more this way, you have a certain amount of time each day to be able to enjoy the MMO you are playing. However, instead of being able to enjoy the game as much as possible within that time frame, you now have to spend time in an outpost or city to look for people who are trying to reach the same goal(s) as you are. (Quest, mission, etc.) And forget about it if you have odd work hours and are only able to log on when everyone else is asleep. Arenanet looked at this situation and decided that it's much better to allow it's players to enjoy and get into the game faster and quicker rather than to force them into finding groups, even at odd hours of the night. When you think of it this way, I'd much rather have the ability to jump right into the game (even if it means that part of my team has to be AI controlled) rather than have to waste valuable time in an outpost screaming, "LFG!"
Just on a end note here, I'm surprised more of the p2p crowd hasn't asked for the same from their developers. They're paying each and every month and some end up wasting time in a similar fashion as mentioned above. I know that if I was paying for something with the expectation of enjoying it, I wouldn't be wasting time, just standing around. I'd want to get in on the action and have some fun! Wouldn't you?
I think grouping is its own reward. When you group, you tend to kill mobs quick, you tend to get more loot, and when well organized you can beat the snot out of people in pvp. Grouping, by its very basic design is of advantage, and not something that should be further rewarded.
I am in fierce disagreement with forced grouping, and thus the reason I quit WoW during the raiding days. I've said it over and over. Most people like to group. In fact, quite a few people like to raid. But very few people like to be forced to group (and in particular, raid) to progress.
As long as everyone in the group killing is atleast within eachothers level (atleast 5 levels from each other).
Everyone in the party should get the same Xp as if they were solo.
so basically a group of five would be killing five times as fast at the solo grinders xp rate plus they would have the benefits of group buffs from other players.
I always hated certain MMOs split the XP of a group.
When a game does that you would rather just solo, If you don't get Xp faster and you still have to share loot and coin why bother.
Players that want to solo complain that they just dont' have time to group, and "forced" grouping means they can't enjoy the game. And we see some of that in this thread. However, is that really true? It seems like what advocates of solo play are really saying, is "I have to be able to advance just as fast, or even FASTER that players in a group, or else I'm calling the game "forced grouping".
Think of it more this way, you have a certain amount of time each day to be able to enjoy the MMO you are playing. However, instead of being able to enjoy the game as much as possible within that time frame, you now have to spend time in an outpost or city to look for people who are trying to reach the same goal(s) as you are. (Quest, mission, etc.) And forget about it if you have odd work hours and are only able to log on when everyone else is asleep. Arenanet looked at this situation and decided that it's much better to allow it's players to enjoy and get into the game faster and quicker rather than to force them into finding groups, even at odd hours of the night. When you think of it this way, I'd much rather have the ability to jump right into the game (even if it means that part of my team has to be AI controlled) rather than have to waste valuable time in an outpost screaming, "LFG!"
Just on a end note here, I'm surprised more of the p2p crowd hasn't asked for the same from their developers. They're paying each and every month and some end up wasting time in a similar fashion as mentioned above. I know that if I was paying for something with the expectation of enjoying it, I wouldn't be wasting time, just standing around. I'd want to get in on the action and have some fun! Wouldn't you?
I only play a monthly fee so I can group with other players. Otherwise, I'll just get a single player game, like Fallout 3 which is a great game.
If i'm not in a group in an MMORPG, I'm wasting time. I have pretty much ZERO fun soloing the content in an MMORPG. Grinding mobs, grinding quests solo in an MMORPG? Waste of time.
Yes, you increase your character in levels or gear solo. But I'm not playing the game to increase my character in levels or gear, and the content in an MMORPG is horrible. The quests? Boring. Grinding mobs? Boring. The content in an MMORPG doesn't change the game world, so who cares if you do a quest or kill a mob solo? Not me.
Playing the the game with other people in a group? I think it's fun.
I think, since there are more people when your in a group and you are killing faster/more, that it pretty much evens out and there should not be a bonus.
Older games had a group bonus. Not too big but it was there.
Once again, evidence of how older games are better than the tripe we have now. You can solo fine, but for the people who take the effort to group, there was a reward. Don't like it? Then solo. This is an MMO people.
Sorry but in this Solo era of MMOs you have to give a bonus to grouping ... a nice bonus or else we will continue the trend to Massive solo online games. its either that or make where people would want to group do it like back in the day where regaining your health/power wouldn't be extremely quick. Maybe not like EQ where you sat for 15 minutes but like DAOC where it could take you a minute or two to regain your health after ONE fight. this way grouping is actually faster at gaining exp than soloing. thats why people grouped back in the day not because of some silly bonus. in daoc if you were lucky you could kill an even con mob and get ok exp. the draw back was the mob took you down to 25% health or so and to get back to full health it took a while. So people grouped up to fight higher con mobs. these mobs didnt have a bonus, they were about the same exp that you would get from an orange con mob. but you could kill them faster and you had no downtime.
Do you soloers want them to add downtime to the games again? if not xp/loot bonuses are the way to go . solo = 100%
duo = 70%
trio = 60% and so on and so forth.
oh and also dont give me this BS that because groups kill faster the exp is equal. that would work if there was an endless supply of grouped mobs with no respawn timers. Solo kills one mobs a group has to kill 6, not bad but a soloer kills 10 mobs (easily attainable) a group of 6 has to chain kill 60 mobs (not that easy to find).
As a player that solo'd alot during his time in group oriented games like EQ and DAOC i say Yes, i do want downtime added back into games again.
I always thought it was rediculous that soloers would complain that groups could get faster exp then them, or that groups could get different drops then them, or that raiders were the only ones who could get the Uber no drop items.
Solo should be an option in MMOs, but it should be a slower more hazardous option, with the potential of less rewards then grouping offers.
And yes, in EQ certain solo classes could actually out exp a group when you got to the higher levels. Quad kiting with my druid made for some pretty nice exp. But it was also much harder for me to find a group if i wanted to group because they would rather have a Cleric or Shaman then a Druid. It all worked out in the long run. (Except for the Rangers, poor poor Rangers)
As a player that solo'd alot during his time in group oriented games like EQ and DAOC i say Yes, i do want downtime added back into games again.
I always thought it was rediculous that soloers would complain that groups could get faster exp then them, or that groups could get different drops then them, or that raiders were the only ones who could get the Uber no drop items. Solo should be an option in MMOs, but it should be a slower more hazardous option, with the potential of less rewards then grouping offers. And yes, in EQ certain solo classes could actually out exp a group when you got to the higher levels. Quad kiting with my druid made for some pretty nice exp. But it was also much harder for me to find a group if i wanted to group because they would rather have a Cleric or Shaman then a Druid. It all worked out in the long run. (Except for the Rangers, poor poor Rangers)
I disagree. Why favour group, raid or solo? All 3 styles of play should have the similar opportunities to advance their toons.
I also disagree that solo classes could out xp groups in EQ. I played a druid and soloed a lot. In early days of EQ after you quad kited (killed 4 mobs) you then sat and meditated for 10 minutes to get your mana back while a nearby group was continuously pulling. I really doubt your xp was half that of the group. Jealous groups saw you kill the 4 mobs quickly, but did not see the long down time between fights. There was also class jealousy because some classes could not solo. Later in EQ xp for druids charming frogs was nearly as good as a good group in LDoN. I heard there were a couple of exploits that gave insane solo xp to enchanters before the exploit was fixed.
Where solo play in EQ shone, was if you played off peak like I do on Australian time. You could be out getting solo xp while waiting on a group invite. Dual boxing also helped with solo xp, as you could have an enchanter on another account to buff you to reduce downtime while soloing. Running 2 accounts was expensive and I would not play a game again where 2 boxing was common among off peak players just to get a viable team.
I think, since there are more people when your in a group and you are killing faster/more, that it pretty much evens out and there should not be a bonus.
But you have to split the loot and xp, so ultimately you aren't any better off - you're killing faster, but only getting a portion of the rewards. Why would I want to share the loot, when I can have it all to myself? Screw grouping. I pretty much gave up grouping with strangers about 7 or 8 years ago, because they're usually just a ball and chain around your ankle, gaming-wise.
If all that sounds rather cynical, when you've seen the 100th group implode because of someone's stupidity, or the 100th rant over splitting loot, or the 100th moron blaming the healer because he hadn't kept him alive, you just see no point in putting up with the hassle any more.
I also disagree that solo classes could out xp groups in EQ. I played a druid and soloed a lot. In early days of EQ after you quad kited (killed 4 mobs) you then sat and meditated for 10 minutes to get your mana back while a nearby group was continuously pulling.
Yes, I remember it well. That was in the early days, when you even had to sit staring at your spellbook whilst meditating to get mana back, and it did indeed ruin gameplay. They eventually changed it so that downtime was pretty minimal, and eventually they gave away so much xp in those mini-instances that normal play went out the window. It was ridiculous - my lvl 23 Priest went up 27 levels in 4 days because of the insane xp you could reap in a 10-minute instance. That's Sony for you - they ruin whatever they touch.
Comments
Nothing. Why should players be compensated because they waste time?
A group that forms quickly and gets into action in most games gets a lot more experience than solo players.
I do agree that a lot of time can be wasted finding a group. I think compensating players for this is a very poor solution and does not address the real issue.
The reason I don't like grouping alot of the time is because how long it takes to get a functioning group togeather. Also sometimes people take the game very serious in a group for some reason. Unless you do everything perfect and to there liking then you get smack talked to.
I loved grouping in COX, they did it perfect for me. It was fast to get a group, fast to get to the instance and we were all there just to kill mobs for xp and have fun instead of killing mobs for some stupid l33t trousers that if we didn't succeed then everything turned into a argument.
Players that want to solo complain that they just dont' have time to group, and "forced" grouping means they can't enjoy the game. And we see some of that in this thread.
However, is that really true?
It seems like what advocates of solo play are really saying, is "I have to be able to advance just as fast, or even FASTER that players in a group, or else I'm calling the game "forced grouping".
For example, is anyone here going to call WoW a "forced grouping game" for the early levels before you get to raiding? I don't think so.
But what if we made no other change whatsoever, but to add 10% xp for each person that joined your group, to WoW. We haven't changed the solo game at all, you can still solo all the way up to the level cap, just like you can now in WoW. But when you have two people grouped they get a 10% xp bonus, 3 peopge get 20%, 4 people get 30% bonus, and so on.
Is that a "forced grouping" game even though you can still solo?
I think that the MMORPG genre is ready for some new ideas on group content and this is the way to go.
However, I wouldn't make these skills/spells toggle when the player is within a conventional group. That would still lead to the feeling of being forced into grouping in order to unlock these abilities.
In my opinion the whole group concept should be done away with and replaced with something more dynamic. Something along the following lines:
Everyone would have access to certain abilities that can only be targeted at other players, but would not require them to be in a conventional group with the caster/skill user. It doesn't matter if these abilities are assigned to classes or are acquired from a pool in a skill-based game.
These skills/spells would be like the ones isolor mentioned, allowing for a great range of beneficial and interesting effects like damage being distributed among linked players, heals effecting all those who are linked to the caster, certain abilities working together to produce greater effects if used in certain ways by members of a chain, etc.
This way you wouldn't need to find someone to group with, you'd just have to be in a place that has people. Which is a pretty simple matter in the average MMORPG.
Now I am aware that not all is perfect with this idea.
First of all, we've all had our share of unwanted people pestering us with group invites or simply "helping out" with a mob. This could be easily solved by methods already in use in most current MMORPGs. I am referring to auto-decline toggles. In most games you can auto-decline party requests, trade requests, tells, etc. There should also be a need for acceptance by the target before the link can be established. On this acceptance window there should be an option to decline all future requests from people, sort of like an ignore. This way unwanted people could be alienated (I know this sounds harsh, but as far as I'm concerned, it is necessary) and without the benefit of links, they'd find themselves at a serious disadvantage.
Another issue some might raise is the lack of a separate chat for the group. I do not think this is a problem because I am against the segregation of players by separate chat channels. But others who like to have separate channels would probably disagree.
If they are the majority, then an option would have to be added into the game allowing players to set up their own channels, with a button that invites all players who are linked to this player.
Freeing players in this way from the current, restrictive grouping concept would IMHO lead to a solution to the problem raised by the OP.
xp this and xp that, games are about fun. we should all have emotion feedback electrodes in our brains that fead data back to the server and we get more xp when having fun and less when not having fun. Thats my idea, patent pending.
That is spot on my friend! One of the best post ive read on thoose forums, simple yet so accurate.
I think that the MMORPG genre is ready for some new ideas on group content and this is the way to go.
However, I wouldn't make these skills/spells toggle when the player is within a conventional group. That would still lead to the feeling of being forced into grouping in order to unlock these abilities.
In my opinion the whole group concept should be done away with and replaced with something more dynamic. Something along the following lines:
Everyone would have access to certain abilities that can only be targeted at other players, but would not require them to be in a conventional group with the caster/skill user. It doesn't matter if these abilities are assigned to classes or are acquired from a pool in a skill-based game.
These skills/spells would be like the ones isolor mentioned, allowing for a great range of beneficial and interesting effects like damage being distributed among linked players, heals effecting all those who are linked to the caster, certain abilities working together to produce greater effects if used in certain ways by members of a chain, etc.
This way you wouldn't need to find someone to group with, you'd just have to be in a place that has people. Which is a pretty simple matter in the average MMORPG.
Now I am aware that not all is perfect with this idea.
First of all, we've all had our share of unwanted people pestering us with group invites or simply "helping out" with a mob. This could be easily solved by methods already in use in most current MMORPGs. I am referring to auto-decline toggles. In most games you can auto-decline party requests, trade requests, tells, etc. There should also be a need for acceptance by the target before the link can be established. On this acceptance window there should be an option to decline all future requests from people, sort of like an ignore. This way unwanted people could be alienated (I know this sounds harsh, but as far as I'm concerned, it is necessary) and without the benefit of links, they'd find themselves at a serious disadvantage.
Another issue some might raise is the lack of a separate chat for the group. I do not think this is a problem because I am against the segregation of players by separate chat channels. But others who like to have separate channels would probably disagree.
If they are the majority, then an option would have to be added into the game allowing players to set up their own channels, with a button that invites all players who are linked to this player.
Freeing players in this way from the current, restrictive grouping concept would IMHO lead to a solution to the problem raised by the OP.
I think these are both interesting suggestions.
One thing I'd like to keep about grouping is in a game like EQ or DAoC, is players coordinating their efforts when they group, not just zerging.
In otherwords, two fighters are stronger than one fighter. But no real coordination is needed. We both just whack the mobs, we dont' have to pay attention to each other or what each other is doing, or coordinate in any way.
That's very different from a tank making sure the healer doesn't get aggro, and the healer making sure the tank gets a heal at the right time, a lot more coordination.
I think kataipard is saying, add a bunch of powers that can only be used on other players. For example the fighter can "block" that is absorb damage to another player. It's useless if there are no other players around. The healer can of course heal other players with a group heal, which doens't do any good if you're solo. The nuke could have a spell that adds damage to others, but not himself, and so on.
And these would not be "buffs" not a spell you could put on someone and they run off and use it, but something that's used in combat.
And you wouldnt' even require people to "group" to use these powers, they just have to be near each other.
Yes, that is exactly what I meant.
Players shouldn't need to plan each and every group, instead the group content should be ever present throughout the game, ready to be used by all willing participants.
Those who prefer complex strategies and planning can still plan ahead of time and use voip to coordinate their group and enhance their experience.
But this should by no means be mandatory in order to peruse the benefits of grouping.
How would you do XP and loot splits?
How would you do XP and loot splits?
The XP reward should not be raised for those who peruse the benefits of group abilities. However, respawn rates would by all means have to be calibrated in a way that expects players to use them. Perhaps not to 100% efficiency, but using group abilities should be definitely taken as the norm. Group content should be considered as a vital, unalienable part of every MMORPG. Instead of rewarding those who use it, the whole game should be set up in a way that using it comes naturally.
Looting is a much harder nut to crack. Off the top of my head I'd say FFA would be best. Of course those who have dealt the most damage to the mob would have exclusive looting rights for a set amount of time (as seen in many current MMORPGs). These rights should be extended to those linked to this player. FFA looting would be a test of character for the players to be sure. But working together would probably develop a sense of comradeship among those who play as a team, diminishing the possibility of loot-stealing.
Plus, everyone should be able to see items being picked up by those linked to them so they can be immediately be aware of foul-play and put an end to their cooperation with the offender.
The system I proposed would quickly lead to the alienation of ninjas, loot-stealers and other various social rejects, effectively denying them access to group content. There might even be a system through which players could be evaluated by those they are linked to. Like how you can bump/bury posts on this site.
Better or faster rewards is the benefit. Being able to see content a soloer can't is the benefit. Social activity is the other benefit. Theres nothing wrong with the current system. If you don't want to group you don't. Just don't complain that you don't get the same advantages. Accept that your play style has its pros and cons. You get to pop in and play whenever you want, but your rewards are compensatory with your effort. Its only fair.
Most of the time I can't group since I have a family. When the opportunities arise I always make an effort to, since its more fun playing a MMO with other people. But I NEVER feel slighted when others get better rewards than me when they put in more effort. They deserve the extra rewards.
Frankly, I just do not see the point anymore of playing a MMORPG where I have to grind mobs purely for XP. XP should come naturally as you progress through content so when you complete enough content in an area you leveled enough to be ready for a new set of content. As such giving XP boosts for being in a grinding group seems kinda useless.
To me the purpose of grouping up is so you can do harder, more elaborate content where you have to use the strengths of your character to offset the weaknesses of another character and vice versa (ie a tank protects the healer so the helaer can keep the tank alive). As such the incentives should be structured so people want to group up for the content even if they already done it once. Some of the best non-instance groups I had involved people grouping up for one difficult quest and then going around the zone completing other group quests for our party members even though some of us have already completed those.
You can add this to my patent. I want a game that will not work unless you clamp electrodes to your nipples. These electrodes will come with the game, and hook up to your computer via USB. Then, when ever you are killed in PvP, you will be shocked. Not enough to cause a heart attack, but just enough to make you swear.
Oh @)*&;%$!@$#%!!! Mother )&^%$@!!
An Xp bonus is appropiate- and I think WoW actually does that. The problem with WoW though is that grouping isn't seen as a valid activity while levelling up- more as a side distraction to complete the various group quests- and then move on.
I think to incent grouping, it needs to be a lower start time(which is very possible), there needs to be low barriers to grouping (aka those damn levels), those who like to group need to be incented to continue to do so(not just provide one quest and then side distraction over back to soloing).
Oh yeah another thing- stopping high lvls churning through low level content for a low level character. That person may otherwise have had to group.
Think of it more this way, you have a certain amount of time each day to be able to enjoy the MMO you are playing. However, instead of being able to enjoy the game as much as possible within that time frame, you now have to spend time in an outpost or city to look for people who are trying to reach the same goal(s) as you are. (Quest, mission, etc.) And forget about it if you have odd work hours and are only able to log on when everyone else is asleep. Arenanet looked at this situation and decided that it's much better to allow it's players to enjoy and get into the game faster and quicker rather than to force them into finding groups, even at odd hours of the night. When you think of it this way, I'd much rather have the ability to jump right into the game (even if it means that part of my team has to be AI controlled) rather than have to waste valuable time in an outpost screaming, "LFG!"
Just on a end note here, I'm surprised more of the p2p crowd hasn't asked for the same from their developers. They're paying each and every month and some end up wasting time in a similar fashion as mentioned above. I know that if I was paying for something with the expectation of enjoying it, I wouldn't be wasting time, just standing around. I'd want to get in on the action and have some fun! Wouldn't you?
I think grouping is its own reward. When you group, you tend to kill mobs quick, you tend to get more loot, and when well organized you can beat the snot out of people in pvp. Grouping, by its very basic design is of advantage, and not something that should be further rewarded.
I am in fierce disagreement with forced grouping, and thus the reason I quit WoW during the raiding days. I've said it over and over. Most people like to group. In fact, quite a few people like to raid. But very few people like to be forced to group (and in particular, raid) to progress.
As long as everyone in the group killing is atleast within eachothers level (atleast 5 levels from each other).
Everyone in the party should get the same Xp as if they were solo.
so basically a group of five would be killing five times as fast at the solo grinders xp rate plus they would have the benefits of group buffs from other players.
I always hated certain MMOs split the XP of a group.
When a game does that you would rather just solo, If you don't get Xp faster and you still have to share loot and coin why bother.
Playing: Nothing
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Think of it more this way, you have a certain amount of time each day to be able to enjoy the MMO you are playing. However, instead of being able to enjoy the game as much as possible within that time frame, you now have to spend time in an outpost or city to look for people who are trying to reach the same goal(s) as you are. (Quest, mission, etc.) And forget about it if you have odd work hours and are only able to log on when everyone else is asleep. Arenanet looked at this situation and decided that it's much better to allow it's players to enjoy and get into the game faster and quicker rather than to force them into finding groups, even at odd hours of the night. When you think of it this way, I'd much rather have the ability to jump right into the game (even if it means that part of my team has to be AI controlled) rather than have to waste valuable time in an outpost screaming, "LFG!"
Just on a end note here, I'm surprised more of the p2p crowd hasn't asked for the same from their developers. They're paying each and every month and some end up wasting time in a similar fashion as mentioned above. I know that if I was paying for something with the expectation of enjoying it, I wouldn't be wasting time, just standing around. I'd want to get in on the action and have some fun! Wouldn't you?
I only play a monthly fee so I can group with other players. Otherwise, I'll just get a single player game, like Fallout 3 which is a great game.
If i'm not in a group in an MMORPG, I'm wasting time. I have pretty much ZERO fun soloing the content in an MMORPG. Grinding mobs, grinding quests solo in an MMORPG? Waste of time.
Yes, you increase your character in levels or gear solo. But I'm not playing the game to increase my character in levels or gear, and the content in an MMORPG is horrible. The quests? Boring. Grinding mobs? Boring. The content in an MMORPG doesn't change the game world, so who cares if you do a quest or kill a mob solo? Not me.
Playing the the game with other people in a group? I think it's fun.
Older games had a group bonus. Not too big but it was there.
Once again, evidence of how older games are better than the tripe we have now. You can solo fine, but for the people who take the effort to group, there was a reward. Don't like it? Then solo. This is an MMO people.
Darkfall Travelogues!
As a player that solo'd alot during his time in group oriented games like EQ and DAOC i say Yes, i do want downtime added back into games again.
I always thought it was rediculous that soloers would complain that groups could get faster exp then them, or that groups could get different drops then them, or that raiders were the only ones who could get the Uber no drop items.
Solo should be an option in MMOs, but it should be a slower more hazardous option, with the potential of less rewards then grouping offers.
And yes, in EQ certain solo classes could actually out exp a group when you got to the higher levels. Quad kiting with my druid made for some pretty nice exp. But it was also much harder for me to find a group if i wanted to group because they would rather have a Cleric or Shaman then a Druid. It all worked out in the long run. (Except for the Rangers, poor poor Rangers)
I disagree. Why favour group, raid or solo? All 3 styles of play should have the similar opportunities to advance their toons.
I also disagree that solo classes could out xp groups in EQ. I played a druid and soloed a lot. In early days of EQ after you quad kited (killed 4 mobs) you then sat and meditated for 10 minutes to get your mana back while a nearby group was continuously pulling. I really doubt your xp was half that of the group. Jealous groups saw you kill the 4 mobs quickly, but did not see the long down time between fights. There was also class jealousy because some classes could not solo. Later in EQ xp for druids charming frogs was nearly as good as a good group in LDoN. I heard there were a couple of exploits that gave insane solo xp to enchanters before the exploit was fixed.
Where solo play in EQ shone, was if you played off peak like I do on Australian time. You could be out getting solo xp while waiting on a group invite. Dual boxing also helped with solo xp, as you could have an enchanter on another account to buff you to reduce downtime while soloing. Running 2 accounts was expensive and I would not play a game again where 2 boxing was common among off peak players just to get a viable team.
i dont think its consuming, instead, it helps players alot, espcially the newbie.
We need someone to help under some condition. the world is not only one
But you have to split the loot and xp, so ultimately you aren't any better off - you're killing faster, but only getting a portion of the rewards. Why would I want to share the loot, when I can have it all to myself? Screw grouping. I pretty much gave up grouping with strangers about 7 or 8 years ago, because they're usually just a ball and chain around your ankle, gaming-wise.
If all that sounds rather cynical, when you've seen the 100th group implode because of someone's stupidity, or the 100th rant over splitting loot, or the 100th moron blaming the healer because he hadn't kept him alive, you just see no point in putting up with the hassle any more.
Yes, I remember it well. That was in the early days, when you even had to sit staring at your spellbook whilst meditating to get mana back, and it did indeed ruin gameplay. They eventually changed it so that downtime was pretty minimal, and eventually they gave away so much xp in those mini-instances that normal play went out the window. It was ridiculous - my lvl 23 Priest went up 27 levels in 4 days because of the insane xp you could reap in a 10-minute instance. That's Sony for you - they ruin whatever they touch.