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Sandbox / classless / skill-based MMOs - what are the options right now?
anakinsella
Member UncommonPosts: 228
All the Darkfall hype (and whining) has made me remember why I loved Star Wars Galaxies so much in it's glory days (pre CU/NGE) - the freedom to be whatever you want, to mix and match different professions/classes, and to not have a "level" system shoehorning you through the game like all the theme park MMOs that WoW has set the standard for.
Don't get me wrong, WoW perfected this theme-park MMO formula and there is a time and place for that with me. It's just not jiving me right now.
The only games that come to my mind are UO, EVE Online, Darkfall, and Mortal Online.
UO is just *too* old for me to go back and play at this point. Been there, done that.
EVE Online has always interested me and I've had some fun in trial acconts, but I'm waiting for the box release / new new-player experience that comes with it to try EVE again. I'm excited, but that's not till March 10th or so.
Darkfall - I'm not even bothering to play it until the fiasco and drama has passed that surrounds the launch.
Mortal Online - I'm following it daily, but a ways off from beta/launch.
What else is out there that utilizes skill-based mechanics, is classless, and leveless?
Comments
Runescape, sort of a joke in the MMO community but it is indeed a sandbox. Eternal Lands is also pretty sandboxy but the graphics are subpar and it has a pretty small player base (at least when I played it did).
Oh and I almost forgot about Wurm Online, you'll have to check that one out for yourself because I don't really don't know much about it other than that it has sandbox elements.
Wow, horrible games they are too, but choices are very scarce
. I' ve always said that more MMORPGs need to be skill-based like UO.
I think Runes of Magic is skill-based, but I'm not 100% on that. It's been a while since I've played.
Graphics don't matter to me so I'm still happy with my Ultima Online account. No other game rivals it IMO... not even the one 9 million people seem to have one massive unified orgasm over! I'll stick to a 2D game with way more skills and skill-based advancement rather than go onto a "pretty" 3D game with slim pickings for class development, a cluttered GUI and experience points.
So, I think you know my vote. lol
I can't remember... was EQ Classic skill-based? If so, add that to my suggestions too.
Im with you. I am all about a more modern UO.
SWG used to be that, but isnt now. Darkfall was promising but looks to be one hell of a mess now. Dont know much about Mortal, but those are pretty much it.
EQ was to class based game what UO was to Skill based. Too bad WoW became so popular that every developer felt the need to emulate it to compete with apples to apples and were not smart enough to give us our oranges.
I'd like to play such game too. Will certainly check Darkfall in future. But if you won't find anything and you liked SWG gamestyle, try D&D Online. Very big number of former SWG players play now DDO. Maybe it uses classes and levels, but you still have probably the best freedom and effectiveness of character creation. There's quite a lot classes, and each of them plays almost entirely different. More so, you can have up three classes for one character - you start with one, but can add any one or two more when you level up. And get their combined benefits without any penalty.
I wish DDO was pure sandbox, but it isn't. Still, I can't find any better game where skill / activity of player is so important. DDO has more interaction with environment than any other MMORPG, though maybe not Darkfall - but I must compare it myself. Nonetheless, quests are beautyful, hand crafted, with mechanical / magical traps, hidden passages, ladders, full 3D environment like in a good 3D action game.
Great for roleplaying, for character building (altaholics! :P), for fun and interaction with environment + community.
Maybe WoW has masses of players running around like ants, but every of their characters is hardly any different to each other. To the point that Mage is played similar to Warrior or Rogue (from DDO player's perspective). In DDO you're often not so "UBER" looking, with lights and discoballs flying around your head, but every character is most probably very different built. Even the same classes.
In short, while WoW (which I respect for some things, played it long) is like a mass factory... DDO is like a good craftsman or artist. Just choose what you prefer.
And of course DDO is beautiful graphically, and makes good use of EAX effects for sound. Maybe AoC has better graphics, but I never played it. No free trial was a bad idea for that game.
PS: I'm not saying DDO community is small. Especially that we have influx of players from some time. It's hard not to run into someone anywhere you go now. Just keep in mind quests / explorable areas are instanced,
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Agreed. No develpers take risks anymore - instead just make level based, class based, theme park MMOs like WoW. Sad thing is, no one will ever do it better than WoW, so it just inflates the genre with totally mediocre games.
I've tried DDO, and while I was impressed by the improvements they've made and the depth of character customization and stats - I just don't think it was a game *for me*. I'm not familiar with D&D (despite being a self proclaimed internet nerd) and I just felt totally overwhelmed, like I do when I paly any D&D rpg (NWN, baldurs gate, etc).
I'm getting more and more excited to pick up EVE Online: Apocrypha retail box March 10th, and it seems like it will just be a combination of WAR, WoW, and EVE till Mortal Online is the next real sandbox MMO to drop.
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Agreed. No develpers take risks anymore - instead just make level based, class based, theme park MMOs like WoW. Sad thing is, no one will ever do it better than WoW, so it just inflates the genre with totally mediocre games.
I've tried DDO, and while I was impressed by the improvements they've made and the depth of character customization and stats - I just don't think it was a game *for me*. I'm not familiar with D&D (despite being a self proclaimed internet nerd) and I just felt totally overwhelmed, like I do when I paly any D&D rpg (NWN, baldurs gate, etc).
I'm getting more and more excited to pick up EVE Online: Apocrypha retail box March 10th, and it seems like it will just be a combination of WAR, WoW, and EVE till Mortal Online is the next real sandbox MMO to drop.
Ah, that's sad to read, because DDO's devs are unique exactly in that they take risks and doesn't copy WoW for sure. That's why I love Turbine, especially DDO branch (didn't play much LotrO).
So it would look like a good fit, but D&D stats scared you off
. Maybe try again when Mod 9 comes live (most likely sometime this month). The game get even more accesible. Though there's pleny of players who didn't play any D&D.
Either way, good luck on your search!
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I'm surprised nobody has mentioned A Tale in the Desert..
haven't played it myself but from what I've heard very much a sandbox mmo
It is a sandbox MMO, but it doesn't get much play because it's all crafting /=
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Agreed. No game can currently rival UO sandbox wise.
You can also try to get into the LinkRealms beta. That's the closest you'll get to sandbox without playing UO.
Also, on the Sandbox, Classless, Skill-based, don't forget Saga of Ryzom, very much so in all three of those categories, just remains to be seen what the new owners do with it to keep it scootin along.
:
Fallen Earth and Earthrise are both skill based sandbox games that slated to launch this year. If they do, along with Mortal Online, this could be the year of the sandbox. Hopefully at least one of the four will launch smoothly (I guess one of the 3 now as DF didn't launch smoothly) and at least one of them will be stable over time.
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Earthrise looks to have potential. I still need to be sold more on Fallen Earth though and see why I shouldn't just go play Fallout 3 instead.
Oh and I looked up LinkREALMS - looks alright, but honestly looks like a glorified chat room
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Sounds like you're after a similar style of game to me - I started with Asheron's Call, then migrated to WOW and tried Warhammer - both theme park stuff.
Asheron's Call offers a 14-day free trial, so definitely give this a go. While the graphics are dated, the skill/stat based character development rather than class and level, combined with absolute freedom of exploration in a massive world area makes this a game I wish I could play again.
A large number of players trying it though, are unable to connect to the game due to the antiquated server technology that Turbine use for the game. I definitely recommend to try the trial - if it doesn't work, hey, you've lost an hour of download and install. If it does work, I will be insanely jealous as you roam around with your new fireball-throwing, dagger-stabbing, plate-wearing dude!
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After SWG went the way of the NGE, I took refuge in ancient Caledonia.
Sandbox and historically authentic... I especially appreciate that it is not fantasy, there are no elves and there is no magic. But the development moves at a snail's pace, and too many features are still noticably missing. Few players are left, but it places more emphasis on the individual, and roleplaying comes naturally to the community. The free trial should be implemented in the upcoming months, for anyone interested but understandably skeptical....
Earthrise looks to have potential. I still need to be sold more on Fallen Earth though and see why I shouldn't just go play Fallout 3 instead.
Oh and I looked up LinkREALMS - looks alright, but honestly looks like a glorified chat room
Linkrealms is anything but a chat room. It's dungeons and overall gameplay is astounding. Check out the general forums and poke around. You'll be amazed by what you find. Also check out this thread I explained it in.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2699913/thread/226669#2699913
-edited for spelling that hurt the eyes.
'and to not have a "level" system shoehorning you through the game like all the theme park MMOs that WoW has set the standard for'
just so you know the level trend came from pen and paper rpgs. then it went into singleplayer action rpgs and then ofcourse into mmos. loads of mmos before wow had level system.
examples? laods of them.... i dunno... dark age of camelot.
conclusion: everything you think about wow - was done before in other games.
WoW copied EQ, so it's really EQ that set the standart.
no it didnt copy any particular mmo. its just mix of lots of other mmos.
they did some things better than in originals, some things worse.
however - they didnt create anything new.
You know I come from pen and paper RPG's, the first RPG I played was D&D I think 2nd edition, not AD&D but the original D&D. I used to love that game but I always thought it was lacking, I mean you could if the GM let you walk into a bar and punch anyone you wanted and start a bar fight. The GM of course would bend the story to work with your characters, and the more you got to know the GM the more the game was built to your particular style. I did however come to loath the fact that we had to make decisions that when we did some things, like drink 42 Ales what saving throw should we use, or if I wanted to do a backflip for no reason just stood up on the bar and backflipped off for no reason drunk as a skunk what do I roll under? There really was no skill system in the original D&D and that is what I didn't like about it.
Then about a year after starting in the RPG world I was introduced to an interesting game, Robotech. I was amazed by the skill system that paladium had set up, and although I had to stay within limits when I created the character I could pretty much choose any skills I wanted. Not to mention my attributes which all played a part in my starting skill level. Now I had the ability to do the following;
Player : I want to drink 42 Beers in the local bar.
GM: Ok you have to save vs poison and if you fail you pass out
Player: Rolls dice and succeeds. Now get up on the bar and backflip off it, I have a 85% in Acrobatic - backflip
GM: Well your drunk so you have a -60% on that so you have to roll under 25% and if you fail you will take damage.
Player: Rolls 55% and fail
GM: Rolls some D6's and says, "You take 30 damage directly to your HP and you have a concussion, all skills will be at -20% for 2 game days."
The ability to do the above scenario kept me playing Robotech/Rifts/Heros Unlimited for years untill I found my first MMORPG, Asherons Call. Since this game resembled the RPG's of old that is what became my favorite MMO game of all time, and to this day NO games have matched it.
Since then I have played almost every major MMO release but still go back to AC every time. I am playing EVE right now but I even find that very limiting, I think it is because the exploration sucks in EVE. I mean its, warp to a gate, jump through, warp to another gate jump through, just empty space after empty space. The combat is ok, nothing to write home about, the skill system is ok, but real time skill training is a stupid thing. Having the option of learning EVERY skill in the game to max potential even if it takes 10 years to do is stupid as well. Limits even on Sandbox games have to exist otherwise you will end up with second life.
To myself I would like to see a game that takes on the same structure as AC or Paladium RPG's. I would like to see a game where you do have levels but they don't mean much just a number showing your experiance and nothing more. You should an attribute and skill system similar to AC where you can take your experiance and put it into each attribute, or each skill in order to become better at that skill. It should not be easy to untrain skills, AC has a dungeon that you go to and you retrieve a skill gemstone and when you use it that skill is removed and you have a wait untill you can remove your next skill, I am not sure how long that wait is but I know it hurts to wait. It is hard to do the "flavor of the month" character with that system. Next the world has to be open and seemless, AC's land mass was big enough it would take you at least an hour or 2 to get from the southern most tip to the north most tip of the land mass. That is of course fi you didn't see anything that interested you on the run and you didn't use any portals.
Well this turned out to be a longer post then I was planning but to me AC is the only real option for a sandbox MMO, that is skill based and really has no classes. Also the game makes exploring fun, and your character design is unique. I have heard UO was the same way but I didn't get into that one back in the day as well. Although old and the graphics are outdated to me AC is still the only option.
yeah, no wonder this thread has died silently. It got completely off topic.
This was supposed to be about sandbox/classless games and wound up being a discussion on World of Warcraft (a game that is anything but sandbox), and nerd gaming roots and short personal histories.
Thanks for killing an interesting thread with the completely mundane.
Way to go.
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The only 3 games ive enjoyed: Runescape, The saga of Ryzom, Wurm online.
Linkrealms is anything but a chat room. It's dungeons and overall gameplay is astounding. Check out the general forums and poke around. You'll be amazed by what you find. Also check out this thread I explained it in.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2699913/thread/226669#2699913
-edited for spelling that hurt the eyes.
Agreed! Linkrealms is no chat room. Its actually really good once you break the ice on it (which can be overwhelming at first). If I were interested in a UO-like experience then Linkrealms is what I'd play.
Its still pretty rough though so people that are easily overwhelmed with game mechanics might want to wait at least until they have a tutorial.
Another classless game coming out soon is Champions Online. If you're into being unique and having lots of character customization then CO will be the game for you. With the cell shading turned off, the graphics are amazing too.
Linkrealms is anything but a chat room. It's dungeons and overall gameplay is astounding. Check out the general forums and poke around. You'll be amazed by what you find. Also check out this thread I explained it in.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2699913/thread/226669#2699913
-edited for spelling that hurt the eyes.
Agreed! Linkrealms is no chat room. Its actually really good once you break the ice on it (which can be overwhelming at first). If I were interested in a UO-like experience then Linkrealms is what I'd play.
Its still pretty rough though so people that are easily overwhelmed with game mechanics might want to wait at least until they have a tutorial.
Another classless game coming out soon is Champions Online. If you're into being unique and having lots of character customization then CO will be the game for you. With the cell shading turned off, the graphics are amazing too.
Are there not classes in Champions Online? I think there's a limit on the number of powers you have (in a true classless system you'd be able to take on every power and advance them to where you see fit, maybe choosing to specialize in 2 or three more than others). I'm pretty sure you can't be all Archer/Ranged/blaster AND Warrior/Melee/Scrapper AND Mage/DPS/Controller. "Archetypes" are classes as far as I can tell.
But I am looking forward to Champions very much. Just not too convinced it belongs in this "Sandbox / classless / skill-based " thread.