Lineage 2? Really?

X-Porter · March 2009

For the longest time I've been looking at this game. The graphics look great, and it sounds like it has a lot of options, but I hear a lot of "Korean Grinder" and "Botters".

How is it, really?

My history is EQOA -> FFXI -> CoH/CoV -> WOW( I know, BOOO) -> DDO(Fail) -> EVE(Awesome!) -> WAR(Fail)

So how is it? Gankfest? Can I craft? I'm not big on PvP as in "OMG IMA PWNZ U LOL", but if it comes into play as in "I'm mining and someone attacked me" then it's go-time.

So what's the selling point? Tell me.

csides88 · March 2009

The game is a grinder, but it is very group oriented. There are raids starting from level 20+. There are bots but they don't bother anyone. Its not a gank fest because the downside to ganking is KILLER. If you gank someone and you kill them, you turn red and anyone can attack you. Then if you die, anyone can loot items from your dead body. That only happens if you gank someone though.

If you have never played, I would give it a shot. They just added a new update that made it less of a grinder and more user friendly. I am the game correspondent and I wrote an article on the expansion here:

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/46/feature/2784/Looking-at-Gracia.html

anakinsella · March 2009

Read my lvl 1-40 impressions of it on my blog: http://iwinbutton.com/2009/02/10/impressions-lineage-2-levels-1-40/

I had a blast leveling to ~40 with a few characters, but I guess I should note I stopped playing around 48. Why? The grind just got to me I guess.

It's a fantastic game with excellent visuals and an AMAZING (from who I met on Phoenix) community. I can say it look slike the grind would be worth it, as even I was having fun pre-50, despite the majority of the content being for lvl 62+ people.

If you can get a trial key, try it out. If you make it past 20 and are digging it, buy it.

xxxxiangxxxx · March 2009

It all depends on if you want to stay on one game for a long time. If that's the case, then you should definitely try Lineage 2.

The two types of players there usually are:

1. Those who quit in the first few weeks of gameplay.

2. Those who stays until the end of the time.

Suttonian · March 2009

> So how is it?

I agree with the above posters.

A good clan can make the difference between becoming bored in days or playing indefinitely.

>Gankfest?

If you are in a PVP clan expect on being ganked by your rivals (and expect to gank them).

If you are in a PVE clan or casual clan then you won't get ganked often.

>Can I craft?

All classes can craft a few items. But you really need to be a dwarf if you want to be a 'crafter' (craft weapons, armour, and various other things that other classes cannot craft).

>So what's the selling point?

The good community...(erf not all of it is good though).

The economy is interesting (including the RMT aspect of it even if you don't participate).

The PVP - it's always more exciting than games where there is no loss from dying.

The graphics, great character design, animation, modeling and texuring.

X-Porter · March 2009

Thanks for the responses.

I've been doing some more reading on it and it sounds pretty cool. The click-to-move interface would take some getting used to, tho.

I'll definately be checking it out when time allows.

csides88 · March 2009

You can use WASD also. You have to go to your options and check the box "Enter for text." If you don't then when you press "w" you will type a "w," but if you have the box checked you can walk with WASD.

Raven · March 2009

Originally posted by csides88

You can use WASD also. You have to go to your options and check the box "Enter for text." If you don't then when you press "w" you will type a "w," but if you have the box checked you can walk with WASD.

Lets not lie to ourselves the WASD controls in L2 are very unresponsive, you can use them, but they are so unresponsive they are pretty much deemed useless there is absolutely no benefit in using them.

Wizardry · March 2009

I played L2,i guess mainly because i heard it was on the unreal engine ,so that it couldn't be half bad.I was not impressed at all.The game is not at all brilliant when coems to looks,i found FFXI to be every bit as equal,so that is not saying a ton for graphics.The outside areas were bland as well ,nothing great there,walkways to the next areas with mobs on either side to kill.

I remember getting bored as a noob and decided to wander around a bit and explore.I watched at a distant a castle seige,and was surprised two players came from far away to try and attack me,i was not even involved and i even looked like a noob,so why bother with me?I thought lamers,i managed to out distance them,but they chased me a long way.I assumed i was in a certain distance of the siege ,so i was fair game,otherwise the players did not care about the RED,because they were obviously 50+ and i was like level 15 or so.

I found there was nothing in the game,that could set itself apart from anything i have done in other games,basically i played for a little over a month and finally got bored and quit.I never saw any groups in my whole time in the game,what i did encounter was some players duo boxing and that was about it.The server i was on seemed extremely dead,i actually saw more bots than actual players,and all the bots had names like "mivjehmaijerh"very easy to spot and yet remained in the game for the whole time i played,so NOBODY in NCSOFT cares about their product.

Raven · March 2009

Originally posted by Wizardry

I played L2,i guess mainly because i heard it was on the unreal engine ,so that it couldn't be half bad.I was not impressed at all.The game is not at all brilliant when coems to looks,i found FFXI to be every bit as equal,so that is not saying a ton for graphics.The outside areas were bland as well ,nothing great there,walkways to the next areas with mobs on either side to kill.
I remember getting bored as a noob and decided to wander around a bit and explore.I watched at a distant a castle seige,and was surprised two players came from far away to try and attack me,i was not even involved and i even looked like a noob,so why bother with me?I thought lamers,i managed to out distance them,but they chased me a long way.I assumed i was in a certain distance of the siege ,so i was fair game,otherwise the players did not care about the RED,because they were obviously 50+ and i was like level 15 or so.
I found there was nothing in the game,that could set itself apart from anything i have done in other games,basically i played for a little over a month and finally got bored and quit.I never saw any groups in my whole time in the game,what i did encounter was some players duo boxing and that was about it.The server i was on seemed extremely dead,i actually saw more bots than actual players,and all the bots had names like "mivjehmaijerh"very easy to spot and yet remained in the game for the whole time i played,so NOBODY in NCSOFT cares about their product.

Gfx wise I dont share the same opinion L2 still is the best looking game in the market for me, everything looks right environment is stunning all the way to end game. But L2 true potential is inter-clan relationships and politics, as of yet no other game has matched the feeling L2 had, about being on a massive war, alot of politics, sieges, enemy hunt parties, being hunted down, it is all very unique. L2 is truly a brutal world where the strongest rule the weak.

You wont see many ppl at low levels because the biggest part of the population is already in their 70+, 80+(for the most hardcore) even then there is still alot of action at lower levels specially raiding wise, ALOT of people do raid bosses at lower level, all you have to do is get into the community and get involved in these things, you will make alot of allies along the way that will help you and ask you to join them in events. Last and more importantly join an academy this is THE best way to get involved in the community, when you graduate from a clan academy the clan earns points they use to buy skills, level up and various other things, ANY clan will want ppl in their academy, this can also lead to an invite to the main clan after you graduate.

NCSOFT has started caring a bit more lately with botting from the reports I have been hearing from players they are at least doing something which is a good sign.

csides88 · March 2009

Originally posted by rav3n2

Originally posted by csides88

You can use WASD also. You have to go to your options and check the box "Enter for text." If you don't then when you press "w" you will type a "w," but if you have the box checked you can walk with WASD.

Lets not lie to ourselves the WASD controls in L2 are very unresponsive, you can use them, but they are so unresponsive they are pretty much deemed useless there is absolutely no benefit in using them.

I do agree with you in saying that they are not as good as other games that use WASD. You can use them and still move around freely. I think it should just be tweaked alittle bit.

Mikeha · March 2009

I been playing for 4 years and still dont plan on going anywhere. I have played all the other top mmos out and I still think Lineage 2 has the best graphics of them all. The game starts out slow but gets better as you advance. Now that they made free teleportation you can just go around and look and see what in the other towns. This game is far from dead. The best thing about Lineage 2 is that you get 2 free expansions a year so the game stays fresh and new.

Sovrath · March 2009

Originally posted by Wizardry

I played L2,i guess mainly because i heard it was on the unreal engine ,so that it couldn't be half bad.I was not impressed at all.The game is not at all brilliant when coems to looks,i found FFXI to be every bit as equal,so that is not saying a ton for graphics.The outside areas were bland as well ,nothing great there,walkways to the next areas with mobs on either side to kill.
I remember getting bored as a noob and decided to wander around a bit and explore.I watched at a distant a castle seige,and was surprised two players came from far away to try and attack me,i was not even involved and i even looked like a noob,so why bother with me?I thought lamers,i managed to out distance them,but they chased me a long way.I assumed i was in a certain distance of the siege ,so i was fair game,otherwise the players did not care about the RED,because they were obviously 50+ and i was like level 15 or so.
I found there was nothing in the game,that could set itself apart from anything i have done in other games,basically i played for a little over a month and finally got bored and quit.I never saw any groups in my whole time in the game,what i did encounter was some players duo boxing and that was about it.The server i was on seemed extremely dead,i actually saw more bots than actual players,and all the bots had names like "mivjehmaijerh"very easy to spot and yet remained in the game for the whole time i played,so NOBODY in NCSOFT cares about their product.

Well, I don't think you understand the game at all. Or, at least it's not your play style.
This game is heavily clan and alliance centered. And they are not just chat rooms to find groups. Especially in the earlier days when you could drop items on death, you would need people who have your back. People you could trust. Though there are pug's, there are not the same amount as in other games because you need to be grouping a lot with clannies.

Also, if you group with someone from a clan that is being warred you also risk yourself being dropped, especially if you party protect (meaning that if anyone attacks you in your party you attack them back).

As far as the siege goes, I would have tried to drop you as well. And would always drop you.
Why? Well, you could be a scout which is done so frequently that I can't begin to tell you. You could have been trying to get into place and then not cared if you died so that you would essentially have been a spy-cam for the enemy. No one knows, no one would believe you no matter what you said (as sometimes players try to get alts in enemy clans to spy so "spying" is done all the time).

L2 is all about the politics, all about player interaction.

This game does set itself apart as it has a completely different feel from other Asian grinders. I've tried several and this game just does what they do so much better.
Not that it doesn't have its problems. i can go on and on about the such as no coherent thought to the game design (essentially things are added every update no matter how they affect the larger game), so many bits and pieces that are added only to be useless, useless skills that are never needed or used, etc.
But if players want a very dynamic game, one that has a completely different feeling than games like LOTRO or WoW (more like eve I would imagine due to the politics) then L2 might be for them.

But if it doesn't grab you, if the game play is not your thing then it just won't.
I remember playing in the early days in LOTRO and then having to sign into L2 for a huge siege that was happening. When I signed in and realized that half the server was getting involved, all to kick us out of Aden Castle, it suddenly dawned on me that L2 was not like other games. Everything is connected and what you do in game and how you act matters.
You just don't raid. You go to raid and hopefully the enemy isn't there to take you out or that they don't decide to try to raid your same boss. And there are very few instances in L2 so no real place to hide. Large Alliances have, in the past, shut down such places as Cruma Tower so that only their people could level there, players will hold lower level towns hostage and not allow any lower level players to leave else they get pk'ed.

Heck, players in the early days of the game used to hold Talkng Island, the new player human area, hostage and people would come to the forums to beg for other high level players to come and just patrol the area so that they could level.
L2 is far more dynamic than many games out there. this is its selling point but also its greatest flaw because not everyone wants to play a game such as this.

SwampDragons · March 2009

nice one Sovrath, Ok now I have to go in and get that last 80% to Sgrade and my Draconicbow

But your post is very true, the main selling point in this game is that its actually the players that make the storyline.

Raven · March 2009

Very well put Indeed Sovrath, this game is all about politics, if your not involved with the community you will always feel that the game has nothing more to offer than just simply leveling. Too bad there is no company picking up on these concepts and creating something new with it, L2 is the last of its kind as far as I know, and its sad, hopefully NC can pickup L3 again and start developing.

Mikeha · March 2009

Sovrath that was excellent. You posted excactly what makes Lineage 2 different from other MMOs. Alot of people come to Lineage 2 expecting thempark gameplay like WoW and Lotro and get disappointed when they dont find it.

Sovrath · March 2009

Originally posted by Korvenus

Sovrath that was excellent. You posted excactly what makes Lineage 2 different from other MMOs. Alot of people come to Lineage 2 expecting thempark gameplay like WoW and Lotro and get disappointed when they dont find it.

Well thanks all!

but you all hit the nail on the head... people come to L2 and they expect that you will be guided to where you want to be.

Now granted, the game is a LOT easier now then when it first started. You no longer drop if you are white and a mob kills you. The vitality system has made things a bit easier for leveling, the free buffs up to the 60's now (so I hear) and the buff and healing herb drops, all contribute to a far more accessible game.

But in the end, players have to actually make it happen. They need to contact clans and alliances, get to know who is who and in the end realize that this is a pvp game. Though I used to give out quite a bit of money to new players that I would findin the new player zones (and eventually stopped as I realized that many of them seemed to quit relatively soon after) no one is really going to care that a new player has wandered into a siege. Especially since they wouldn't be believed anyways.

As a new player you either have to know how the world works ahead of time (and to this point, I read every review that came out prior to purchasing the game and had a very clear idea as to how the game worked. Heck, I was only going to spend 1 week tops but instead ended up staying over 4 years), you have to be willing to over look preconceptions of what mmo's are and learn how L2 works, or you have to not really care, have a tough skin and just make the game work for you.

And it's a shame that so many people just look at the graphics, maybe read an article or not and start asking "why can't I find many quests, am I doing something wrong" or "all there is to do is grind, that's boring, there's nothing to do".

Not realizing that A, this is not a quest based game and B, the grinding is only the manner that you level and has very little to do with the "why" you are playing the game.

But unless NC spells it out for people, they will continue wandering around lost.

I have no issues with games like WoW and LOTRO but in some ways, because of their popularity, they really do set a precedent of expectation that in the end confuses some people. Especially in the case of L2.

X-Porter · March 2009

Good to see all the different points of view here.

It sounds like Lineage 2 has a fair amount of what makes EVE so interesting to me. Only in this I can be a Dark Elf

WSIMike · March 2009

Originally posted by Wizardry

I remember getting bored as a noob and decided to wander around a bit and explore.I watched at a distant a castle seige,and was surprised two players came from far away to try and attack me,i was not even involved and i even looked like a noob,so why bother with me?I thought lamers,i managed to out distance them,but they chased me a long way.I assumed i was in a certain distance of the siege ,so i was fair game,otherwise the players did not care about the RED,because they were obviously 50+ and i was like level 15 or so.

Just a note on this...

They *might* have thought you were spying/scoping for a rival clan on an untagged lowbie toon. It's not uncommon. That could be a reason they chased you off.

Though your reason for being there is completely rational - I've done similar things (I lean heavily to the "explorer" side) - for the most part, you wouldn't find a lowbie character lingering near a castle siege; especially since you can watch them from the safety of a broadcast crystal in any town (though as a new player, you may not have known that - also understandable)

Edit: Read Sov's (excellent) post after posting this... so... sorry to be redundant. :-p

isurus · March 2009

If you love Eve then I highly recommend giving L2 an honest try. I feel like I've tried everything.... from big franchise western MMOs to obscure Asian F2Pers. After half a decade of MMOing, Eve and L2 are still the only two that keep bringing me back over and over again.

Beltamkor · March 2009

Originally posted by isurus

If you love Eve then I highly recommend giving L2 an honest try. I feel like I've tried everything.... from big franchise western MMOs to obscure Asian F2Pers. After half a decade of MMOing, Eve and L2 are still the only two that keep bringing me back over and over again.

I heard similar things from a friend long time ago who knew that I love EvE...got me all excited...found a trial key...enjoyed what I seen...then NCsoft didn't accept my CC

I live in another country for my studies. I have a cc from my home-country. Apparently, NCsoft checks to see if the ip of the player is from the country the cc is issued....mine didn't match of course. Bad luck.

Maybe, I'll try this game when I get back home

EmanueI · March 2009

Lineage 2 is not only about PvP/ PvE. It has many other entertaining features such as fishing (Fishing King Championship Tournament) which includes crafting and can be very beneficial for players with patience. The game also offers Pet raising where you have buy or earn(by quest) a pet. Personally I had fun lvl up mine and buying equipment for it and watching it evolve(some pets evolve only once others twice - depends on the pet). There are also monthly events(all of the are different from one another) provided by nc soft which enrich your game experience while farming.

Since you aren't a PvP fan I wont discuss the matter.

Give it a try.

Arthineas · March 2009

Originally posted by csides88

Originally posted by rav3n2

Originally posted by csides88

You can use WASD also. You have to go to your options and check the box "Enter for text." If you don't then when you press "w" you will type a "w," but if you have the box checked you can walk with WASD.

Lets not lie to ourselves the WASD controls in L2 are very unresponsive, you can use them, but they are so unresponsive they are pretty much deemed useless there is absolutely no benefit in using them.

I do agree with you in saying that they are not as good as other games that use WASD. You can use them and still move around freely. I think it should just be tweaked alittle bit.

Just one quick comment X-Porter. Do not worry about getting used to the click and move scheme. It is easier then you think. I had played for years on a game that used WASD, but yet I quickly got used to L2's controls. Plus click and move is what you want in a pvp environment. Its great to be able to pan around your character with the camera while you are running. I have very rarely had someone be able to surprise me when out hunting.

Mikeha · March 2009

I like Click and Move in my games. I like to just click a spot and be done rather holding a WASD key all the time.

squeakyBOOTS · March 2009

I have been playing L2 for 2 months straight now(i picked up again after playing out my trial key during C2) and there has been only one time that I can remember when I considered stopping and that was mid B grade(lvl 56ish). And this was only b/c the grind was starting to annoy me especially as it is hard to solo w/ my glad and get good xp at the same time. But as soon as I got over that hill and hit A grade the game has definately opened up new doors. I've been raiding ever since I could and I have a BD(bladedancer) now that does raids about everyday on Bartz server. And the glad is definately fun to play now. I lost my noob buffs which was depressing to an extent(I cant help it I've been raised on em and they were taken away like a baby's bottle lol) but it just means that I have more of a reason to go out w/ my clan and lvl. And trust me, going to TOI/antharas lair NEVER gets old. Most clans or ppl on servers have times and days set aside where the clan and friends will go raiding. That's what we did yesterday and we managed to kill about 8 raid bosses, took over a fortress(with only 18 people which I thought was impressive b/c we have no ally right now), and I hit lvl 65 woohoo!! A grade really brings out alot of the content, and even tho I am still too low of a lvl to go to certain places w/ small groups, my clan is still nice enough to let me at least come along to see what's still out there waiting for me.

X-Porter · March 2009

Thanks for the heads-up on the controls. I'll try to wrap my little peabrain around them.

I had a hard enough time going from FFXI on the PS2 to WASD games on PC and then trying to go back to FF with the keyboard controls. I'm still willing to give L2 a try, tho.

A question on servers. I hear Phoenix come up a lot. Is that the sever to roll on? Can you have more than one character per server?

(Ok, that was two questions. You caught me.)

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