I'd have to say, in the heat of battle, 1st person is far more immersive. In Age of Chiv mod, theres nothing quite like cracking skulls with a crushing overhead hammer strike. From a "role playing" perspective, 3rd is probably better. From a character progression standpoint, 3rd is probablty better too because you can see the phat loots, new moves and shinies your toon gets. My next point is so important, I'm gunna use a new paragraph and colours!
The absolute most important thing for MortalOnline: They have to make compelling melee combat. If its just a Counterstrike circle strafing knifefight with healing pots, then this game will fail. 1st or 3rd person, IMO it really doesnt matter. Just get the melee combat right dammit!
(quick edit. I mentioned Age of Chiv mod. But I expect MO combat to be better than this, more depth ramble rant etc.....)
Once again, for YOU it immerses you in the game or combat, where as for OTHERS it does the opposite. There are players whom can't stomach 3rd person, and there are those whom can't stomach first person. The PROBLEM that MO's devs are forcing on their players is to ONLY play in first person. Many of my friends whom I've played pvp oriented MMO's for years will not play MO unless they can enjoy their experience in third person and NOT be forced into FPV only.
The problem I see here is that YOU are crying over a design decision made for a game NO ONE is forcing YOU to play, so why are you whining?
first off what kills when I hear ppl whine about fpv, if you ask a majority of the ppl over 30 years of age, we don't give a sh-t what our toon looks like, why does everyone care so much about the thing that means the least in any mmo, jesus give it a rest, should be looking at gameplay, originality, graphics should pull up 3rd, lag stuff like that, give the how cool is my armor crap a rest. In todays world of give me now, even if you get that cool new piece of armor like a sugar cube it only excites you for about 20 mins then you get all depressed again and need to take a pill.
Full control in combat = need for 1st person view. Try and pop an arrow in someones back in 3rd person without auto aiming. You can't.
Realism: in 3rd person you can spot someone sneaking up to you from behind without you hearing him. Most races we know, in and out of game, don't have eyes in the back of their heads.
Immersion: Having a smaller field of view and the natural perspective of 1st person view, brings more excitement and realism to combat situation; it is not easy mode anymore to assess a situation from the maximum zoomed, rts perspective which most mmorpgs allow. You are actually 'in there' and have to look around occasionaly to see what the hell is going on.
TPV have ruin FPV in all other MMO games. Having TPV makes FPV into a disadvantage. Its about time there comes a FPV only MMO.
MO is about a free world with no restriction. TPV isnt realistic and dont create a sens that you are the player. The MMO market is full with TPV games, so go play them instead.
I don't understand why people are arguing first person view as the most immersive. I remember reading someone's post where they said they prefer third person, and so do I. I remember the only time I felt "immersed" in a world was on a roleplaying server on Neverwinter Nights, and that's third person. I don't need to see just as I do offline to be immersed in a world. Being immersed is a matter of opinion. Look at the folks who are totally in love with EVE (Gosh, I wish I could be one of them). They only see their ship, and that's third person. Yet they're quite deep into it. So first person view may be more immersive to some of you, but third person is for some others.
I'd love to try the game if the combat is fun, but only with a third person view. I have my shooters for first person games, and that satisfies me enough for first person.
It could probably not give an advantage to third person players if there were no free camera, that you have to turn around to look around. I wouldn't see a problem with that. I just like to see the character pull off slick maneuvers, and not just his hands.
Third person view is really the most immersive, it can never be otherwise. Every game is limiting your view distance and peripheral vision, and in 1st person view it becomes even smaller. With peripheral vision radius lowered, you should at least be able to see what's going on behind your back and not turn around every 2 seconds like an idiot
If you are used to it from the shooters, it's fine, you always have the option to turn it on in EVERY game. But to restrict players... pfffft... it only gives away the developers' helplessness and inability to make a decent game.
Well, I wouldn't say it'll be a bad game, per se. But I'm sure I will not enjoy it, even if I do decide to try it (I probably won't, because it doesn't allow third person). I generally give all MMORPGs a fair shot. Even bought Warhammer knowing I'd hate it, tried it, hated it. Even renewed my subscription in February to try since I'm sure it had some fix ups since launch, and still hated it.
But without third person view, I just won't enjoy any RPG. There's nothing fun to me about seeing the 1-2 swing animation.
I still wonder why all TPV lovers argue why TPV games have bring better immersion, when they didn't even touch FPV games (not FPS games). Seems they are talking about other type of "immersion" than FPV games players.
Anyway, FPV won't be changed to TPV due to couple well known facts.
-- /thread
Remember, your advantage lies in your opponent's weakness (J)
Really, if theres a choice between first person and third person view, almost no one would use first person view, simply because it would put you at a disadvantage. If you can't see behind you but others can, you really are at a disadvantage.
Also i think it will be weird trying to hit the 10 different hitboxes in TPV.
Tried playing any of those third person view games in first person? And actually done well in pvp? I doubt that you have.
And if you don't like what the game has to offer, theres an easy solution to that, simply don't play it
The OP has a good argument here, some people like 1st person, some people like 3rd person, but what you have to think about is that a 3rd person view might not work at all with the game mechanics that the developers have in mind. Except if you want them to change everything and make a game that is 3rd person view friednly. Which I doubt.
There is a reason why the game is only in fpv. The element of suprize. your not going to see a WoW rogue class that suddenly vanishes into thin air to ambush. Here they want to limit what you can see around you which does make the game more immersive.
Ill explain. When i tried morrowind when it came out yeah i saw my char in the char creation screen then i was tossed into the game in 1st person view. As i was walking around . suddenly i get hit by an arrow and i quicly turn around looking where the shot came from. I was surpized. Now i switched to 3rd person view and now i can see much more on what around me. NEVER again i felt the same think i felt at 1st when i was in first person. It killed the element of suprize. I could pan the camara in ways were i could catch a glimse of what may attack me.
When i played Oblivion i decided to play it fully in FPV It was an awsome experience.
The main reason why some people will be turned off by First person view and prefer 3rd person is to manipulate the camara, never to be supriszed..
FPV all the time will make this game stand out. You see someone and your behind him lurking in the shadows knowing he cannot see you. You dont have to worry about getting close and bam he saw you becase he was in 3rd person and watched you approach from behind.
I would love to pluck an arrow and watch him go in wtf mode looking around where the attacker could be. Games in 3rd person view do not allow that. Heck infact WOW is a prime example why both views should never be together. Try pvping in wow in 1st person view against people who use the regular 3rd person view. Anyone can be a rogue vs you since you cannot see other than whats in front of you. You will have a serious disadvantage. This is one of the main reasons why you cannot have both and props to the company for sticking with 1 view only.
Watching Fanbois drop their soap in a prison full of desperate men.
With melee combat I prefer to have the possibility to move my camera just behind the toon. In a computer game you have a far narrower viewing angle in first person then in real life. In most fps games it doesnt matter that much, because your opponents either come with a lot of noise from a distance (PVE) or stay at a distance because its mainly ranged fighting (PvP).
In a game where melee combat is important, you lack the possibility to sense movement in the corner of your eye, or a quick glance around, so a camera just behind your toon works way better to be aware of your immediate surroundings. First person view would be NOT immersive for me. Its as if you are looking through cupped hands all the time.
With melee combat I prefer to have the possibility to move my camera just behind the toon. In a computer game you have a far narrower viewing angle in first person then in real life. In most fps games it doesnt matter that much, because your opponents either come with a lot of noise from a distance (PVE) or stay at a distance because its mainly ranged fighting (PvP). In a game where melee combat is important, you lack the possibility to sense movement in the corner of your eye, or a quick glance around, so a camera just behind your toon works way better to be aware of your immediate surroundings. First person view would be NOT immersive for me. Its as if you are looking through cupped hands all the time.
FPV forces you to be more aware of your surroundings instead of watching somebody sneak up behind you and backstab you. That's the point; you don't SEE somebody backstab you! You'll be able to look at your character through your inventory screen, and probably some other places as well. Personally, I find it more immersive than TPV, but that's purely subjective.
This isn't a fatal flaw; the game clearly has an intelligent, mature following with whom the developers listen and resopnd to. If FPV breaks the game for you...sorry; it's a set-in-stone decision.
Here's a question for the drooling masses. How is FPV only an innovation? WoW's got FPV. So does Warhammer. LotRO. Hell most MMOs have FPV if you zoom in enough so this is in no way original. And forcing the option in no way makes it more original. It's just restrictive.
I've read a number of these posts and it seems like a lot of users are just using the word "immersion" as just something they say to explain their personal visual perference. Immersion or, being immersed is roughly defined as being brought into a visual 3D world that surrounds the player and pulls you into the game.
As you visually are immersed in your own life and surroundings as should be visually in a three dimensional world. I believe it would make you feel more like you are there and experiencing the game and events when you aren't hovering 5 feet behind yourself.
That being said, and as some others have said, you can't successfully mesh a 3rd person view and 1st person view without one view having an unfair advantage. That being said I personally have no preference as I'm not just an MMORPG gamer, but an overall gamer, and just because something is in 1st person instead of 3rd person... or 2D instead of 3D will not be a deciding factor for me whether the game is good or not. Even if, no -- especially -- , if I haven't played it yet.
Here's a question for the drooling masses. How is FPV only an innovation? WoW's got FPV. So does Warhammer. LotRO. Hell most MMOs have FPV if you zoom in enough so this is in no way original. And forcing the option in no way makes it more original. It's just restrictive.
that post had to be a joke
you do relize that thoughs game's are mad for TPV not FPV dont you. thats like saying
"Well Halo, portal, half life, COD are all FPV game's and thay work vary well why cant WOW be more like that. I mean forceing use to use the game's targeting systom is just crazy, why cant i just aim and swing, dosnt matter to me that WOW dosnt have Hit box's on the charicters... BLA BLA BLA"
its like your expacting MO combat to be just like every othere MMO, if that was the case I wold be all for TPV but its not, you have to aim and such.
for EX: you can go Prone in MO, going Prone is almost useless if some one is in TPV as thay will be able to see right over the wall were your on your belly.
I only use third-person view in most MMOs because they were very obviously designed around it.
Restriction is necessary. Most other MMOs should have been restricted to third-person, because first-person was pathetic and useless in them. Turn that on its head for once and don't bother with the view the game isn't optimized for.
I'm all for Mortal being first-person only. I'd prefer it over anything else.
Favorites: EQ, EVE | Playing: None. Mostly VR and strategy | Anticipating: CU, Pantheon
Oh don't forget some people can get motion sickness in FPV. Imagine, spinning the screen like crazy when you're in combat is not fun at all. One of the reasons that I quit Darkfall is because I got motion sickness so bad when fighting others. If no TPV, I will not play it. This is MMO not FPS game, why limited it to FPV only? You will probably play this game almost everyday for months or even years, and just seeing 2 hands of your character? You'll get bored to death.
lol way to sugarcoat that one.. They play females cause they have issues. Or they are way to much intro roleplaying, maybe dabling in the crossdressing or soemhting.. weird to me but to each his pown.
Oh don't forget some people can get motion sickness in FPV. Imagine, spinning the screen like crazy when you're in combat is not fun at all. One of the reasons that I quit Darkfall is because I got motion sickness so bad when fighting others. If no TPV, I will not play it. This is MMO not FPS game, why limited it to FPV only? You will probably play this game almost everyday for months or even years, and just seeing 2 hands of your character? You'll get bored to death.
This is very true. I have serious motion sickness too when trying Quake and the like. BF is the limit beyond which any more "realistic" simulation will cease me to throw up fast into the game.
Oh don't forget some people can get motion sickness in FPV. Imagine, spinning the screen like crazy when you're in combat is not fun at all. One of the reasons that I quit Darkfall is because I got motion sickness so bad when fighting others. If no TPV, I will not play it. This is MMO not FPS game, why limited it to FPV only? You will probably play this game almost everyday for months or even years, and just seeing 2 hands of your character? You'll get bored to death.
So? There are also color blind people, but that doesn't mean all games should be changed in order for them to be more suitable for such people, especially if those changes will make the game worse for people who are not color blind.
If you get motion sickness from FPV games then clearly MO is not the game for you. You are welcome to choose any other MMO, since the vast majority of them have TPV.
Why try to force the developers to change a game that has attracted many people due to the very fact that it is FPV? It's going to be the only MMO that has been designed for FPV combat. Let us FPV fans have it and you can move on and wait for a MMO that is designed to be more suitable for your needs.
If I suddently realized that I can "zoom" out and watch myself run around from 10 feet away would be pretty scary.
Wait... you mean you CAN'T zoom out IRL? LOL WHAT A NOOB!
I've been living in TPV since I was like 2 years old. It's just easier, since I can see behind my back and thus lessen the chances of getting a surprise buttrape.
Comments
Once again, for YOU it immerses you in the game or combat, where as for OTHERS it does the opposite. There are players whom can't stomach 3rd person, and there are those whom can't stomach first person. The PROBLEM that MO's devs are forcing on their players is to ONLY play in first person. Many of my friends whom I've played pvp oriented MMO's for years will not play MO unless they can enjoy their experience in third person and NOT be forced into FPV only.
The problem I see here is that YOU are crying over a design decision made for a game NO ONE is forcing YOU to play, so why are you whining?
first off what kills when I hear ppl whine about fpv, if you ask a majority of the ppl over 30 years of age, we don't give a sh-t what our toon looks like, why does everyone care so much about the thing that means the least in any mmo, jesus give it a rest, should be looking at gameplay, originality, graphics should pull up 3rd, lag stuff like that, give the how cool is my armor crap a rest. In todays world of give me now, even if you get that cool new piece of armor like a sugar cube it only excites you for about 20 mins then you get all depressed again and need to take a pill.
Why 1st person view is better in some games:
Full control in combat = need for 1st person view. Try and pop an arrow in someones back in 3rd person without auto aiming. You can't.
Realism: in 3rd person you can spot someone sneaking up to you from behind without you hearing him. Most races we know, in and out of game, don't have eyes in the back of their heads.
Immersion: Having a smaller field of view and the natural perspective of 1st person view, brings more excitement and realism to combat situation; it is not easy mode anymore to assess a situation from the maximum zoomed, rts perspective which most mmorpgs allow. You are actually 'in there' and have to look around occasionaly to see what the hell is going on.
My brand new bloggity blog.
TPV have ruin FPV in all other MMO games. Having TPV makes FPV into a disadvantage. Its about time there comes a FPV only MMO.
MO is about a free world with no restriction. TPV isnt realistic and dont create a sens that you are the player. The MMO market is full with TPV games, so go play them instead.
I don't understand why people are arguing first person view as the most immersive. I remember reading someone's post where they said they prefer third person, and so do I. I remember the only time I felt "immersed" in a world was on a roleplaying server on Neverwinter Nights, and that's third person. I don't need to see just as I do offline to be immersed in a world. Being immersed is a matter of opinion. Look at the folks who are totally in love with EVE (Gosh, I wish I could be one of them). They only see their ship, and that's third person. Yet they're quite deep into it. So first person view may be more immersive to some of you, but third person is for some others.
I'd love to try the game if the combat is fun, but only with a third person view. I have my shooters for first person games, and that satisfies me enough for first person.
It could probably not give an advantage to third person players if there were no free camera, that you have to turn around to look around. I wouldn't see a problem with that. I just like to see the character pull off slick maneuvers, and not just his hands.
Third person view is really the most immersive, it can never be otherwise. Every game is limiting your view distance and peripheral vision, and in 1st person view it becomes even smaller. With peripheral vision radius lowered, you should at least be able to see what's going on behind your back and not turn around every 2 seconds like an idiot
If you are used to it from the shooters, it's fine, you always have the option to turn it on in EVERY game. But to restrict players... pfffft... it only gives away the developers' helplessness and inability to make a decent game.
Well, I wouldn't say it'll be a bad game, per se. But I'm sure I will not enjoy it, even if I do decide to try it (I probably won't, because it doesn't allow third person). I generally give all MMORPGs a fair shot. Even bought Warhammer knowing I'd hate it, tried it, hated it. Even renewed my subscription in February to try since I'm sure it had some fix ups since launch, and still hated it.
But without third person view, I just won't enjoy any RPG. There's nothing fun to me about seeing the 1-2 swing animation.
I still wonder why all TPV lovers argue why TPV games have bring better immersion, when they didn't even touch FPV games (not FPS games). Seems they are talking about other type of "immersion" than FPV games players.
Anyway, FPV won't be changed to TPV due to couple well known facts.
--
/thread
Remember, your advantage lies in your opponent's weakness (J)
Really, if theres a choice between first person and third person view, almost no one would use first person view, simply because it would put you at a disadvantage. If you can't see behind you but others can, you really are at a disadvantage.
Also i think it will be weird trying to hit the 10 different hitboxes in TPV.
Tried playing any of those third person view games in first person? And actually done well in pvp? I doubt that you have.
And if you don't like what the game has to offer, theres an easy solution to that, simply don't play it
The OP has a good argument here, some people like 1st person, some people like 3rd person, but what you have to think about is that a 3rd person view might not work at all with the game mechanics that the developers have in mind. Except if you want them to change everything and make a game that is 3rd person view friednly. Which I doubt.
I disagree with the op on this one.
There is a reason why the game is only in fpv. The element of suprize. your not going to see a WoW rogue class that suddenly vanishes into thin air to ambush. Here they want to limit what you can see around you which does make the game more immersive.
Ill explain. When i tried morrowind when it came out yeah i saw my char in the char creation screen then i was tossed into the game in 1st person view. As i was walking around . suddenly i get hit by an arrow and i quicly turn around looking where the shot came from. I was surpized. Now i switched to 3rd person view and now i can see much more on what around me. NEVER again i felt the same think i felt at 1st when i was in first person. It killed the element of suprize. I could pan the camara in ways were i could catch a glimse of what may attack me.
When i played Oblivion i decided to play it fully in FPV It was an awsome experience.
The main reason why some people will be turned off by First person view and prefer 3rd person is to manipulate the camara, never to be supriszed..
FPV all the time will make this game stand out. You see someone and your behind him lurking in the shadows knowing he cannot see you. You dont have to worry about getting close and bam he saw you becase he was in 3rd person and watched you approach from behind.
I would love to pluck an arrow and watch him go in wtf mode looking around where the attacker could be. Games in 3rd person view do not allow that. Heck infact WOW is a prime example why both views should never be together. Try pvping in wow in 1st person view against people who use the regular 3rd person view. Anyone can be a rogue vs you since you cannot see other than whats in front of you. You will have a serious disadvantage. This is one of the main reasons why you cannot have both and props to the company for sticking with 1 view only.
Watching Fanbois drop their soap in a prison full of desperate men.
With melee combat I prefer to have the possibility to move my camera just behind the toon. In a computer game you have a far narrower viewing angle in first person then in real life. In most fps games it doesnt matter that much, because your opponents either come with a lot of noise from a distance (PVE) or stay at a distance because its mainly ranged fighting (PvP).
In a game where melee combat is important, you lack the possibility to sense movement in the corner of your eye, or a quick glance around, so a camera just behind your toon works way better to be aware of your immediate surroundings. First person view would be NOT immersive for me. Its as if you are looking through cupped hands all the time.
You have a good point here.
FPV forces you to be more aware of your surroundings instead of watching somebody sneak up behind you and backstab you. That's the point; you don't SEE somebody backstab you! You'll be able to look at your character through your inventory screen, and probably some other places as well. Personally, I find it more immersive than TPV, but that's purely subjective.
This isn't a fatal flaw; the game clearly has an intelligent, mature following with whom the developers listen and resopnd to. If FPV breaks the game for you...sorry; it's a set-in-stone decision.
Here's a question for the drooling masses. How is FPV only an innovation? WoW's got FPV. So does Warhammer. LotRO. Hell most MMOs have FPV if you zoom in enough so this is in no way original. And forcing the option in no way makes it more original. It's just restrictive.
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
I've read a number of these posts and it seems like a lot of users are just using the word "immersion" as just something they say to explain their personal visual perference. Immersion or, being immersed is roughly defined as being brought into a visual 3D world that surrounds the player and pulls you into the game.
As you visually are immersed in your own life and surroundings as should be visually in a three dimensional world. I believe it would make you feel more like you are there and experiencing the game and events when you aren't hovering 5 feet behind yourself.
That being said, and as some others have said, you can't successfully mesh a 3rd person view and 1st person view without one view having an unfair advantage. That being said I personally have no preference as I'm not just an MMORPG gamer, but an overall gamer, and just because something is in 1st person instead of 3rd person... or 2D instead of 3D will not be a deciding factor for me whether the game is good or not. Even if, no -- especially -- , if I haven't played it yet.
that post had to be a joke
you do relize that thoughs game's are mad for TPV not FPV dont you. thats like saying
"Well Halo, portal, half life, COD are all FPV game's and thay work vary well why cant WOW be more like that. I mean forceing use to use the game's targeting systom is just crazy, why cant i just aim and swing, dosnt matter to me that WOW dosnt have Hit box's on the charicters... BLA BLA BLA"
its like your expacting MO combat to be just like every othere MMO, if that was the case I wold be all for TPV but its not, you have to aim and such.
for EX: you can go Prone in MO, going Prone is almost useless if some one is in TPV as thay will be able to see right over the wall were your on your belly.
thats not a problem for a game like WOW..
I only use third-person view in most MMOs because they were very obviously designed around it.
Restriction is necessary. Most other MMOs should have been restricted to third-person, because first-person was pathetic and useless in them. Turn that on its head for once and don't bother with the view the game isn't optimized for.
I'm all for Mortal being first-person only. I'd prefer it over anything else.
Oh don't forget some people can get motion sickness in FPV. Imagine, spinning the screen like crazy when you're in combat is not fun at all. One of the reasons that I quit Darkfall is because I got motion sickness so bad when fighting others. If no TPV, I will not play it. This is MMO not FPS game, why limited it to FPV only? You will probably play this game almost everyday for months or even years, and just seeing 2 hands of your character? You'll get bored to death.
lol way to sugarcoat that one.. They play females cause they have issues. Or they are way to much intro roleplaying, maybe dabling in the crossdressing or soemhting.. weird to me but to each his pown.
This is very true. I have serious motion sickness too when trying Quake and the like. BF is the limit beyond which any more "realistic" simulation will cease me to throw up fast into the game.
So? There are also color blind people, but that doesn't mean all games should be changed in order for them to be more suitable for such people, especially if those changes will make the game worse for people who are not color blind.
If you get motion sickness from FPV games then clearly MO is not the game for you. You are welcome to choose any other MMO, since the vast majority of them have TPV.
Why try to force the developers to change a game that has attracted many people due to the very fact that it is FPV? It's going to be the only MMO that has been designed for FPV combat. Let us FPV fans have it and you can move on and wait for a MMO that is designed to be more suitable for your needs.
I don't think being able to change between two different perspectives is immersive at all.
If I suddently realized that I can "zoom" out and watch myself run around from 10 feet away would be pretty scary.
Wait... you mean you CAN'T zoom out IRL? LOL WHAT A NOOB!
I've been living in TPV since I was like 2 years old. It's just easier, since I can see behind my back and thus lessen the chances of getting a surprise buttrape.