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Buffett speaks: The economy has fallen off a cliff
deviliscious
Member UncommonPosts: 4,359
Will Obama listen to reason now?!
"Buffett speaks: The economy has fallen off a cliff
Warren Buffett spoke today, and the world's richest man didn't cheer anyone. Not the Obama administration, not the Republicans, not Wall Street and not unions.
The CEO of conglomerate Berkshire Hathaway told CNBC today that he thought the economy had fallen off a cliff. "
Buffett said President Barack Obama needs to scale back his agenda, and congressional Democrats need to temporarily give up pet projects and stop actions that inflame the minority.
"The tradeoff: Obama and the Democratic Party should not use the crisis to "roll" the Republicans and pass contentious measures."
"The uncertainty coming out of the administration is one reason why the stock market has fallen substantially since Obama took off. The Dow is off about 21% since Jan. 16, the last trading day before Barack Obama was sworn in as president.
Buffett also said he opposes the Obama-backed Employee Free Choice Act (or "card check" bill), which would make it easier for workers to form unions by eliminating employer mandated secret ballot elections."
Comments
If I was in charge I could fix everything in one snap of my fingers (it would take me 300 days to make one snap BTW) I bet I could beat Bush, no way he could do it in 300 days. So like, how many days are we up to now for Obama? 100 yet? He's 50/50 chance I could beat him.
lol .. under normal circumstances the economy fluctuates with elections ... these are not normal circumstances. There is nothing normal about what is going on now. I could fix the economy much faster than that .. start cutting government programs , abolish most laws on businesses, nerf the tax system and implement a flat tax .. problem solved.
You would think that the president has done everything he can but really he hasn't. People say their opinions on what should be done for the economic crisis, but really everything has been tried; all has failed.
Join in everyone of you! How would you fix the economy? xD
Obama should suck it up and just let Ron Paul handle the economy lol.
lol .. under normal circumstances the economy fluctuates with elections ... these are not normal circumstances. There is nothing normal about what is going on now. I could fix the economy much faster than that .. start cutting government programs , abolish most laws on businesses, nerf the tax system and implement a flat tax .. problem solved.
They need to also - fix tort law and legalize marijuana.
lol .. under normal circumstances the economy fluctuates with elections ... these are not normal circumstances. There is nothing normal about what is going on now. I could fix the economy much faster than that .. start cutting government programs , abolish most laws on businesses, nerf the tax system and implement a flat tax .. problem solved.
They need to also - need to fix tort law and legalize marijuana.
I agree! I don't smoke weed but I think alcohol does 100 times more damage and in many more ways than Marijuana could ever do. Let’s tax the crap out of it. The squinty eyed guy won’t hurt ya, he’s stonned! xD
They need to also - need to fix tort law and legalize marijuana.
Actually they would have to fix the economy and find alternate funding for the judicial system before they could even consider legalization of marijuana. That would have to take a back seat for the time being in order to create a new financial structure for the judicial system to support that, otherwise it would collapse without the funding. They currently take way more in in fines than they would in taxation.
Id take a page from the republicans fantasy world and put a Republican in the presidency and put congress at 100% republican controll. Then id get them to buy some magic fairy dust and sprinkle it at wall street and magically fix the stock markets, because as every republican knows the reason Obama is failing is not just because he is a Commie but also because he doesant belive in some magic dust that can make the stock markets fix themselves .
At least thats what most republicans believe should be done it seems. So all you worried Americans out there clap your hands and say "I believe", and if you believe hard enough a republican will come into the presidency and magically the stock markets will fix themselves and any stimulas package will work imediatly.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
Id take a page from the republicans fantasy world and put a Republican in the presidency and put congress at 100% republican controll. Then id get them to buy some magic fairy dust and sprinkle it at wall street and magically fix the stock markets, because as every republican knows the reason Obama is failing is not just because he is a Commie but also because he doesant belive in some magic dust that can make the stock markets fix themselves .
At least thats what most republicans believe should be done it seems. So all you worried Americans out there clap your hands and say "I believe", and if you believe hard enough a republican will come into the presidency and magically the stock markets will fix themselves and any stimulas package will work imediatly.
I do not think that modern democrats or modern republicans could fix this problem. I have no idea why you guys always have to make it about democrat this republican that all the time and just think for yourself about individuals. WHy is that so hard to do? There are a few good people on both sides but the majority of them are not. Especially the people in charge. Obama is the one relying on " hope " to power the economy when it really needs a release from the shackles that bind it. Look at history, look at other countries, look at what truely works and what has been proven to drive economies into the ground. What our country does need are sound economic principles and freedom.
This is not a cheerleading contest, it is not about "winning" it is about the future of our country, our people our childrens futures. There should be no " stimulus package" there is no magic fix to reinflate the bubble, the bubble needs to collapse. Allow it to fall, while at the same time release business and the people from the financial shackles that too much government has put us all in. Free the people and you will free the economy.
I have faith, and confidence, in the American economy.
The economy will come back. Right now, I think we have a tremendous buying opportunity not only in terms of securities such as stock but tangible assets such as real estate and precious metals and agriculture. Edit: not advice to go out and buy, but I am seeing great buying opportunities in MY view. I just cannot "time," no one can, when at what point in time is the best to buy/sell.
The problem is that the bankers have cut-off capital to the free market. The other problem, or perhaps the "REAL" crisis, is that when the government unleashes its spending and the bankers unleash their credit is inflation. If there are not substantial reductions in government spending, we will experience extraordinary inflation that will be more devastating than any crisis we have experienced.
The bankers have NOT cut off credit to the free market, that is false. I happen to know bankers are swamped with loans... Here is what is has happened: The lenders that were actually doing the government mandated subprime quotas have collapsed, the remaining banks refused to bend their standards for subprime loans, they require higher standards and that was the only reason they did not collapse. They are not doing " subprime loans" . You have to meet the minimum qualifications, which should have never been dictated by the government in the first place. Their meddling is what caused the bubble in the first place. The banks SHOULD NOT LOWER their standards or it will just make the mess bigger than it already is. There are no evil banks causing a problem here, that is a lie. That is all propaganda BS used as a scapegoat to cover up what the government is actually doing .
The reason why the market is dropping and the economy is getting worse is EVERYONE who can tell their head from their ass in this country is EXTREMLY concerned about the increased overhead and profit loss that will be applied to our businesses due to OBAMAs budget. If he does not cut business owners some slack here, and reduce his spending this will get much much worse.
Surely you are not suggesting that the banks lower their standards to make bad loans to companies that have repeatedly not paid them back? That would just make this situation worse. The worst offenders are these chains you see popping up in every neighborhood.. the Circuit city's for example. They over extended themselves, they over built to the point of inasnity. No banks should NOT extend their credit . Those businesses need to keep themselves in check and it is obvious they mismanaged themselves into the hole, not some evil banker.
Even though there is more money from fines that taxing drugs, there is a much bigger cost in policing illegal drug trafficking and imprisonment. 2/3rds of prisoners in the US are there because of drug charges. If we were to unilaterally legalize all drugs with restrictions on age or quantity. It would reduce a heavy burden on the US's legal system, put drugs in the hands of pharmecuticals instead of cartels, and we would make money from taxation.
I think the biggest problem with the economy right now is what deviliscious got at. The government is putting in too much control on the market and its falling apart. We started to feel the effects of the housing bubble collapsing in early 2008. If we just let it ride the economy would have already rebounded. Instead we put $2.1 trillion at the problem and we are going to be in this mess for years now. Ontop of it, the value of the dollar has significantly decreased.
Big government right now is what is standing in the way of economic growth. I can assure you if the government dropped spending to $1.2 trillion and completely got rid of income and capital gains taxes. The economy would be fine in weeks.
Buffet is right on the money (excuse the pun) on this.
The economy is falling off a cliff because all you hear coming out of the politicians is the typical doom and gloom "be afraid, be very afraid" as they rape the American taxpayer to pay for impotant things like studies of pig feces in Iowa. And when I say "impotent", I mean impotent, not important.
It's the same old, same old, smoke and mirrors "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" mentality they always pull to pay off their political cronies that got them into office in the first place. It's nice to see that the "change" Obama was talking about was starting the rape on the day of the inaugeration, rather than waiting a day like most politicians usually do.
Unemployment is not yet that bad, give them another 6 months of "be afraid, be very afraid" and it will be.
Look, once credit markets regain stability there is absolutely no friggin reason people should hold off on buying a house, or a new car. You want to buy a $200,000 house now for $150,000, or wait til it goes up in price? You want to wait and buy a new car after the economy has rebounded and the incentives have dried up? You want to make your long term stock market investments when the DOW is at 12000, or at 6000?
You want to be a fwightened wittle bunny wabbit afwaid to come out of his/her hole because the big bad Elmer Fudd says "be afwaid, be very afwaid"?
The American people need to get a grip.....
Buffet is right on the money (excuse the pun) on this.
The economy is falling off a cliff because all you hear coming out of the politicians is the typical doom and gloom "be afraid, be very afraid" as they rape the American taxpayer to pay for impotant things like studies of pig feces in Iowa. And when I say "impotent", I mean impotent, not important.
It's the same old, same old, smoke and mirrors "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" mentality they always pull to pay off their political cronies that got them into office in the first place. It's nice to see that the "change" Obama was talking about was starting the rape on the day of the inaugeration, rather than waiting a day like most politicians usually do.
Unemployment is not yet that bad, give them another 6 months of "be afraid, be very afraid" and it will be.
Look, once credit markets regain stability there is absolutely no friggin reason people should hold off on buying a house, or a new car. You want to buy a $200,000 house now for $150,000, or wait til it goes up in price? You want to wait and buy a new car after the economy has rebounded and the incentives have dried up? You want to make your long term stock market investments when the DOW is at 12000, or at 6000?
You want to be a fwightened wittle bunny wabbit afwaid to come out of his/her hole because the big bad Elmer Fudd says "be afwaid, be very afwaid"?
The American people need to get a grip.....
The truth of the matter is that the credit is flowing .. the bad credit is not.. that is gone and isn't comming back any time soon. Right now I can take out as many loans as I wish ... I have good credit, I do not over extend. The bad credit should not "flow " again simply because that is what caused the mess in the first place. I strongly disagree that the government should force banks to give bad credit, that would just make it worse in the long run. People have to fix their credit scores on their own and clear up the garbage they have allowed to pile up over time, which they have not been doing and that is the reason they cannot get the credit they need now. Many people and businesses were allowed to take out loans that did not qualify for those loans and then they did not pay them back and are whining now because they cannot get the money they need now. That is why it is important for people to take care of their obligations. If you do not have the collateral do not expect something for nothing , because that is not how it works. The banks being forced to do that in the first place IS what caused this mess.
Id take a page from the liberals fantasy world and put a Liberal Marxist in the presidency and put congress at 100% libeal controll. Then id get them to buy some magic fairy dust and sprinkle it at wall street and magically fix the stock markets, because as every liberal knows the reason Bush is failing is not just because he is an idiot but also because he doesant belive in some magic dust that can make the stock markets fix themselves .
At least thats what most liberals believe should be done it seems. So all you worried Americans out there clap your hands and say "I believe", and if you believe hard enough a liberals will come into the presidency and magically the stock markets will fix themselves and any stimulas package will work imediatly.
Hmmm I used my magical fairy dust and rolled us back a few years.
"Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness". No one can stop anyone from pursuing happiness, but life and liberty are said to only exist if they are deliberately sought and paid for".
The truth of the matter is that the credit is flowing .. the bad credit is not.. that is gone and isn't comming back any time soon. Right now I can take out as many loans as I wish ... I have good credit, I do not over extend. The bad credit should not "flow " again simply because that is what caused the mess in the first place. I strongly disagree that the government should force banks to give bad credit, that would just make it worse in the long run. People have to fix their credit scores on their own and clear up the garbage they have allowed to pile up over time, which they have not been doing and that is the reason they cannot get the credit they need now. Many people and businesses were allowed to take out loans that did not qualify for those loans and then they did not pay them back and are whining now because they cannot get the money they need now. That is why it is important for people to take care of their obligations. If you do not have the collateral do not expect something for nothing , because that is not how it works. The banks being forced to do that in the first place IS what caused this mess.
The banks were never forced to provide subprime mortgages. The banks LOVED subprime mortgages and created them and packaged them of their own volition because they were making massive profits on them.
And because of this overextension of credit there was a false economy created. Many of these people who artificially increased their standard of living will be removed from the economic machine in a very substantial way. And because America doesn't produce anything, the net outflow of dollars out of the country inevitably signals one thing: a lower standard of living for Americans. Or really, all developed nations that are not producers are going to be put in their place. Sorry America.
Good God...lol.
Free market deregulated capitalism with no social safety nets and no rules led to the bubble. You want the booms of a capitalist market you had better be willing to accept the busts.
And as for the comment of "just get rid of taxes...haw haw"...well, I can only imagine what type of national suicide that would be. Don't get me wrong, no government would ever do it...because most people don't like to destroy their nation. Lol. Some of you people are truly dense.
Good God...lol.
Free market deregulated capitalism with no social safety nets and no rules led to the bubble. You want the booms of a capitalist market you had better be willing to accept the busts.
And as for the comment of "just get rid of taxes...haw haw"...well, I can only imagine what type of national suicide that would be. Don't get me wrong, no government would ever do it...because most people don't like to destroy their nation. Lol. Some of you people are truly dense.
False. The bubble had nothing to do with deregulated capitalism, but had its origin in the easy money policies of the Fed, as well as government REGULATIONS that encouraged bad loans. It wasn't the packaging of bad loans that was the problem, or the selling of them as securities, it was the making of those loans in the first place.
That was encouraged by Federal Policy all the way.
That wasn't what CAUSED the bubble, but it did direct where the bubble would occur. What caused the bubble was bad monetary policy.
Capitalism doesn't cause booms and busts. Every boom we have ever had can be traced back to government and its actions.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Good God...lol.
Free market deregulated capitalism with no social safety nets and no rules led to the bubble. You want the booms of a capitalist market you had better be willing to accept the busts.
And as for the comment of "just get rid of taxes...haw haw"...well, I can only imagine what type of national suicide that would be. Don't get me wrong, no government would ever do it...because most people don't like to destroy their nation. Lol. Some of you people are truly dense.
False. The bubble had nothing to do with deregulated capitalism, but had its origin in the easy money policies of the Fed, as well as government REGULATIONS that encouraged bad loans. It wasn't the packaging of bad loans that was the problem, or the selling of them as securities, it was the making of those loans in the first place.
That was encouraged by Federal Policy all the way.
That wasn't what CAUSED the bubble, but it did direct where the bubble would occur. What caused the bubble was bad monetary policy.
Capitalism doesn't cause booms and busts. Every boom we have ever had can be traced back to government and its actions.
It is not false. Of all people you, Fishermage, should not be posting on this. I thoroughly explained this to you half a year ago or so and all I received back was static.
Let's analyze what you said though:
#1: This had nothing to do with deregulated capitalism but had everything to do with easy money policies. Ahem. So you are trying to say that banks having access to money created the problem? Or that interest rates were too low? Please explain yourself.
#2: This mantra that it was government legislation that caused it is universally untrue. The legislation that existed that removed redlining annoyed the banks for a year or two until they realized, VIA DEREGULATION, how profitable it was to loan to marginal customers. They were not forced...they did it happily. They made billions of dollars off of those customers.
#3: And I think it is hilarious that you think that packaging them up was not part of the problem. You package these esoteric combinations of mortgage loans together, built with financial instruments that no modest economist would ever agree to, and sell them on the open market, and you think that isn't part of the problem?
Here is a hint: banks should not be allowed to invent mortgage terms because they will do anything to entice the consumer. And the lure of real estate inflation will always draw these quarterly profit motivated corporations to squeeze every cent they can every quarter (at the expense of future quarters or predicated on certain market conditions).
The boom was absolutely the product of deregulation on many fronts. To expect consumers to make sound financial decisions about their lives is leading your country to disaster. To blame it on government regulation flies in the face of what any sane economist would ever say.
Good God...lol.
Free market deregulated capitalism with no social safety nets and no rules led to the bubble. You want the booms of a capitalist market you had better be willing to accept the busts.
And as for the comment of "just get rid of taxes...haw haw"...well, I can only imagine what type of national suicide that would be. Don't get me wrong, no government would ever do it...because most people don't like to destroy their nation. Lol. Some of you people are truly dense.
False. The bubble had nothing to do with deregulated capitalism, but had its origin in the easy money policies of the Fed, as well as government REGULATIONS that encouraged bad loans. It wasn't the packaging of bad loans that was the problem, or the selling of them as securities, it was the making of those loans in the first place.
That was encouraged by Federal Policy all the way.
That wasn't what CAUSED the bubble, but it did direct where the bubble would occur. What caused the bubble was bad monetary policy.
Capitalism doesn't cause booms and busts. Every boom we have ever had can be traced back to government and its actions.
It is not false. Of all people you, Fishermage, should not be posting on this. I thoroughly explained this to you half a year ago or so and all I received back was static.
Let's analyze what you said though:
#1: This had nothing to do with deregulated capitalism but had everything to do with easy money policies. Ahem. So you are trying to say that banks having access to money created the problem? Or that interest rates were too low? Please explain yourself.
#2: This mantra that it was government legislation that caused it is universally untrue. The legislation that existed that removed redlining annoyed the banks for a year or two until they realized, VIA DEREGULATION, how profitable it was to loan to marginal customers. They were not forced...they did it happily. They made billions of dollars off of those customers.
#3: And I think it is hilarious that you think that packaging them up was not part of the problem. You package these esoteric combinations of mortgage loans together, built with financial instruments that no modest economist would ever agree to, and sell them on the open market, and you think that isn't part of the problem?
Here is a hint: banks should not be allowed to invent mortgage terms because they will do anything to entice the consumer. And the lure of real estate inflation will always draw these quarterly profit motivated corporations to squeeze every cent they can every quarter (at the expense of future quarters or predicated on certain market conditions).
The boom was absolutely the product of deregulation on many fronts. To expect consumers to make sound financial decisions about their lives is leading your country to disaster. To blame it on government regulation flies in the face of what any sane economist would ever say.
I don't remember you. Would you please show me the post?
Sorry, you are flat out wrong when you say that deregulation caused it. Over regulation caused it.
Banks will only "Invent terms" if the government backs their risk. Without that government regulation, market discipline would stop them.
That's government regulation (in this case government guarantees of the loans) causing the problem, not deregulation.
What you are implying is that bureaucrats and governments make sounder decisions with other people's money than individuals can make with their own. This has been shown to be false time and again. Where do you get such faith in government?
fishermage.blogspot.com
The Housing Bubble in Four easy Steps:
mises.org/story/3130
fishermage.blogspot.com
Since interesting articles educate more than pissing matches, here's another one:
online.wsj.com/article/SB123491436689503909.html
fishermage.blogspot.com
The truth of the matter is that the credit is flowing .. the bad credit is not.. that is gone and isn't comming back any time soon. Right now I can take out as many loans as I wish ... I have good credit, I do not over extend. The bad credit should not "flow " again simply because that is what caused the mess in the first place. I strongly disagree that the government should force banks to give bad credit, that would just make it worse in the long run. People have to fix their credit scores on their own and clear up the garbage they have allowed to pile up over time, which they have not been doing and that is the reason they cannot get the credit they need now. Many people and businesses were allowed to take out loans that did not qualify for those loans and then they did not pay them back and are whining now because they cannot get the money they need now. That is why it is important for people to take care of their obligations. If you do not have the collateral do not expect something for nothing , because that is not how it works. The banks being forced to do that in the first place IS what caused this mess.
The banks were never forced to provide subprime mortgages. The banks LOVED subprime mortgages and created them and packaged them of their own volition because they were making massive profits on them.
And because of this overextension of credit there was a false economy created. Many of these people who artificially increased their standard of living will be removed from the economic machine in a very substantial way. And because America doesn't produce anything, the net outflow of dollars out of the country inevitably signals one thing: a lower standard of living for Americans. Or really, all developed nations that are not producers are going to be put in their place. Sorry America.
That is not true, the banks that failed LOVED subprime loans. DID you not watch the testimony given during the freddie and fannie hearings on cspan? THey already testified that clintons own administration called lenders and told them to make more subprime loans. Banks faced harsh penalties for not making enough subprime loans and our very own president sued a bank for not making these loans. You are incorrect sir, the banks that survived had much higher standards, and I know for a fact Bank of America did not want subprime loans.
Good God...lol.
Free market deregulated capitalism with no social safety nets and no rules led to the bubble. You want the booms of a capitalist market you had better be willing to accept the busts.
And as for the comment of "just get rid of taxes...haw haw"...well, I can only imagine what type of national suicide that would be. Don't get me wrong, no government would ever do it...because most people don't like to destroy their nation. Lol. Some of you people are truly dense.
Not getting rid of taxes, replacing the current tax system with the one that made Hong Kong so successful. a flat tax rather than punishing businesses for providing incomes, bonuses, benefits, paid vacations as they currently are doing in this country.