The death penalty should be changed to include something beyond just a repair bill. Lotro had only a repair bill and a 10min "reduced health" penalty, but it wasn't enough to really make you scared of dying. People routinely used it to "fast travel" across a zone to the death circle. Some sort of cargo loss, corpse run, seems appropriate. Especially if people do cargo up then fly into astroids just to make the trip quick, lol.
PvP, always a tough one. Full PvP in an MMORPG can be quite lame (probably why many companies don't do it) as compared to a true FPS because of balance issues, likely partly due to the fact that with no cap on guild members, the largest guild can hold control. Power through numbers. Requires forced guilding, hurts solo players, etc....
I think having a mixed PvE and PvP world is an awesome idea. The game is going to both attract PvE players AND PvP players, and you know that at some point the PvE players will venture out into PvP space. It's not like PvP space would just be a "battleground" where you go to fight. I thought it was going to be full of quests and loot as well. Hopefully that's how it is. I mean, it should just be an extension of PvE space but without guards or whatever mechanism protects PvE space.
One thing this game doesn't need to be is breeding ground for all the losers from UO, EvE, and Dark Fall to come and unleash their anger for how much they suck at real life.
Why release a game similar to other shitty games that other companies have released? There isn't really any sandbox type game with full looting especially sci-fi. the only one that currently support freedom, full pvp, looting, and semi piracy is eve-online; if Netdevil wants to compete with eve than they need to step up their game and stop bullshitting their loyal fanbase that've been following jumpgate for a while. Netdevil appealing to the majority fanbase is saling out... Jumpgate evolution is basically an upgraded version of the original but it most likely wont suceed.
Well there is NO space sci-fi game catered to PvE and the casual crowd. This is EXACTLY the direction to go to distinguish themselves from Eve.
Why should a game dev cater to a community that has been playing an antiquated game; they have a byus view about how it should be and are not really a big target for the market. So change is enevitable and just because you think you know how to make the game the most fun doesn't mean you do. The devs have addressed pirating and said this will be added later and the other things that people are upset about are really minor, they are not reason for concern but some have gone off on tangents and offered wild worst case scenarios when they have not even played the game. Hang tight, beta will be sweet.
Well maybe because that community will make up the majority of JG:E's core fan base. The one's that will play the game for years, the ones that have been playing the original for years and been loyal supporters of ND, promote the game unofficially, help generate hype for it.
Who do you think they should cater to? People who have never heard of the game? People who play WoW or WAR?
I never played the original and have only been following the game for a short while but i share some of the same concerns as this "biased community".
You say they are minor yet a lot of us think they are major points so i could say you are being biased as well.
The fact is the devs have done a poor job of communicating with their fan base up until now about the direction they are taking the game in and have let the community debate and form their own opinion of what it would be like. So when they released some solid info this close to release that seemed to be the opposite of what people had been expecting then of course there will be an uproar.
I hope they release a good game even if i have some concerns now. Only time will tell.
Mykell, this reminds me of the time Achron's Call 2 was released, a lot of people emigrated from AC1 to play it then realized it was nothing like the original and it sucked, partly because of preconceived notions on how it would be like.
After tonights Dev chat on irc we found out the following.
No Death Penalty other than a Repair Bill
Even wow punished you by making you run back to your corpse, in jumpgate when you die you get teleported back to the station with all your loot and cargo. No Loss of cargo on death
Players will be able to loot stuff, then to save time just crash into something so that they have a fast way home, note to gold farmers, speed up gold production my mining stuff then crash to get home and sell the ore faster. No PVP Servers
This is a PVP GAME, twitch based pvp combat and yet the dev's feel that its not important to have a PVP server, instead they will have a server with half the map pve ie no pvp flagged, and the other will be open to pvp. half the map missing depending on what type of play you like. No mixed nation squads/guilds
This is something thats changed we were supposed to be able to go what ever nation we wanted and still be in the same squad, not any more. now were being forced to be a specific nation to be in a squad.
The list of horrible news continues there is a full log of the chat on the jumpgate forums. All I can say is please take a second and sign the petition linked above, and try and help us to wake up Net Devil before they goto launch with this product.
Looks like they dropped the ball trying to make a WoW clone.
We'll see how it goes, but Im extremly pessimistic for this game now.
The rules of Debate are really simple; once you have to stoop to insults instead of facts, logic, or reason to try and win your argument, you've lost.
After tonights Dev chat on irc we found out the following.
No Death Penalty other than a Repair Bill
Even wow punished you by making you run back to your corpse, in jumpgate when you die you get teleported back to the station with all your loot and cargo. No Loss of cargo on death
Players will be able to loot stuff, then to save time just crash into something so that they have a fast way home, note to gold farmers, speed up gold production my mining stuff then crash to get home and sell the ore faster. No PVP Servers
This is a PVP GAME, twitch based pvp combat and yet the dev's feel that its not important to have a PVP server, instead they will have a server with half the map pve ie no pvp flagged, and the other will be open to pvp. half the map missing depending on what type of play you like. No mixed nation squads/guilds
This is something thats changed we were supposed to be able to go what ever nation we wanted and still be in the same squad, not any more. now were being forced to be a specific nation to be in a squad.
The list of horrible news continues there is a full log of the chat on the jumpgate forums. All I can say is please take a second and sign the petition linked above, and try and help us to wake up Net Devil before they goto launch with this product.
1. This is an action based game. Small death penalty means more action. This does not mean that in PvP battles ETC there will not be a timer slowing your re spawn rate. Also, you still have to fly back to where ever you are.
2. You are assuming too much with this one.
3. No PvP servers are needed, as the world already has PvP (open) in all shards. Over react much? Eve dosn't have a PvP server ether.
4. Its a factional game. Big deal, race means little to nothing in the game, only starting point and avatar look and lore. Big deal.
Over all, you are a chicken little.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
actually eve is full pvp, even in hi sec you can pvp (corp wars, suicide gankers, fleets - i saw a fleet wipe out a concord the other day)
That was my point.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
First off, some of you forget we are CAPITALIST. In order for game devs to make games they have to make something that sells. If they cater to the 100 hardcore whiners on this website that spend all thier time at work posting on these forums about how games "arnt hard core" enough are they going to make a profit? no they are not. Somehow I doubt that the people at ND want to get jobs hanging drywall or selling car insurance. Why should they make a game only a few people are going to play? Bottom line, its a GAME used for ENTERTAINMENT. this is not a way of life. you want hardcore so bad, why not join the USMC?
Second, as a player of JGC for along time I can say that the lack of dedicated PVP/PVE servers does not matter all that much. In fact, as a non PVPer, there was a time i made huge profits delivering supplies to PVP squads that couldnt go to factional space for one reason or another. I guess I was into the economics of PVP with out the need to prove what a man i was by PVPing all the time.
It was very rare that i got ganked by blood thirsty PVP junkies, it happend from time to time but it was never the end of the world. Over all I would say its because of the jerkwad PVP mentality that games can not be made they way you want. You kill some defensless miner over & over because you can, not because there is skill involed. the miner says "screw it" stops playing, commodies dont get delivered to stations, equipment doesnt get made, pretty soon the only ones left are the PVPers.
sounds like a fun game? Some players like to mine, some like to be space truckers, some like to be police, some like to be pirates. it takes all types to make this game work. and it takes all types to make this game fun. I guess waiting to see how it turns out is to much to ask. So lets all just continue reading what we want & ignoring what we dont want so we only see half the picture & get all bent out of shape over what ifs & what nots. Seems to be what alot of you do best.
Personally I look forward to our new Net Devil overloards & look forward to loosing sleep because of this game.
anyway, I best get back to selling drywall to car insurance hangers.
Well maybe because that community will make up the majority of JG:E's core fan base. The one's that will play the game for years, the ones that have been playing the original for years and been loyal supporters of ND, promote the game unofficially, help generate hype for it.
Who do you think they should cater to? People who have never heard of the game? People who play WoW or WAR?
I never played the original and have only been following the game for a short while but i share some of the same concerns as this "biased community".
You say they are minor yet a lot of us think they are major points so i could say you are being biased as well.
The fact is the devs have done a poor job of communicating with their fan base up until now about the direction they are taking the game in and have let the community debate and form their own opinion of what it would be like. So when they released some solid info this close to release that seemed to be the opposite of what people had been expecting then of course there will be an uproar.
I hope they release a good game even if i have some concerns now. Only time will tell.
How big in the community ? A few hundred vocal fans? A few thousand? Given the size of the market MMO needs to shoot for (at least hundred of thousands range), a few hundred hardcore fans don't matter at all. Given the size of the market, it is silly not trying to attract a larger audience.
Plus, there is NO PvE focus, solo-enable and casual friendly SPACE FIGHTER MMO game out there. It is their chance to grab that market.
Plus, i highly doubt they will actually lose all the JGC fans. Sure, they will lose some vocal hard core players but as WOW has demonstrated succinctly, the market is not about them anymore.
In my experience high death loss & a few vocal egotistic PvP kids tend to ruin mmorpg's for the majority that just want to play for fun & some personal career progression.
After all not everyone can be the best at PVP so someone has to lose.
If what the devs have said is true it means that the game should have a much wider general appeal.
Comments
The death penalty should be changed to include something beyond just a repair bill. Lotro had only a repair bill and a 10min "reduced health" penalty, but it wasn't enough to really make you scared of dying. People routinely used it to "fast travel" across a zone to the death circle. Some sort of cargo loss, corpse run, seems appropriate. Especially if people do cargo up then fly into astroids just to make the trip quick, lol.
PvP, always a tough one. Full PvP in an MMORPG can be quite lame (probably why many companies don't do it) as compared to a true FPS because of balance issues, likely partly due to the fact that with no cap on guild members, the largest guild can hold control. Power through numbers. Requires forced guilding, hurts solo players, etc....
I think having a mixed PvE and PvP world is an awesome idea. The game is going to both attract PvE players AND PvP players, and you know that at some point the PvE players will venture out into PvP space. It's not like PvP space would just be a "battleground" where you go to fight. I thought it was going to be full of quests and loot as well. Hopefully that's how it is. I mean, it should just be an extension of PvE space but without guards or whatever mechanism protects PvE space.
One thing this game doesn't need to be is breeding ground for all the losers from UO, EvE, and Dark Fall to come and unleash their anger for how much they suck at real life.
Why release a game similar to other shitty games that other companies have released? There isn't really any sandbox type game with full looting especially sci-fi. the only one that currently support freedom, full pvp, looting, and semi piracy is eve-online; if Netdevil wants to compete with eve than they need to step up their game and stop bullshitting their loyal fanbase that've been following jumpgate for a while. Netdevil appealing to the majority fanbase is saling out... Jumpgate evolution is basically an upgraded version of the original but it most likely wont suceed.
Well there is NO space sci-fi game catered to PvE and the casual crowd. This is EXACTLY the direction to go to distinguish themselves from Eve.
Well maybe because that community will make up the majority of JG:E's core fan base. The one's that will play the game for years, the ones that have been playing the original for years and been loyal supporters of ND, promote the game unofficially, help generate hype for it.
Who do you think they should cater to? People who have never heard of the game? People who play WoW or WAR?
I never played the original and have only been following the game for a short while but i share some of the same concerns as this "biased community".
You say they are minor yet a lot of us think they are major points so i could say you are being biased as well.
The fact is the devs have done a poor job of communicating with their fan base up until now about the direction they are taking the game in and have let the community debate and form their own opinion of what it would be like. So when they released some solid info this close to release that seemed to be the opposite of what people had been expecting then of course there will be an uproar.
I hope they release a good game even if i have some concerns now. Only time will tell.
Mykell, this reminds me of the time Achron's Call 2 was released, a lot of people emigrated from AC1 to play it then realized it was nothing like the original and it sucked, partly because of preconceived notions on how it would be like.
TBJ
Looks like they dropped the ball trying to make a WoW clone.
We'll see how it goes, but Im extremly pessimistic for this game now.
The rules of Debate are really simple; once you have to stoop to insults instead of facts, logic, or reason to try and win your argument, you've lost.
1. This is an action based game. Small death penalty means more action. This does not mean that in PvP battles ETC there will not be a timer slowing your re spawn rate. Also, you still have to fly back to where ever you are.
2. You are assuming too much with this one.
3. No PvP servers are needed, as the world already has PvP (open) in all shards. Over react much? Eve dosn't have a PvP server ether.
4. Its a factional game. Big deal, race means little to nothing in the game, only starting point and avatar look and lore. Big deal.
Over all, you are a chicken little.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
actually eve is full pvp, even in hi sec you can pvp (corp wars, suicide gankers, fleets - i saw a fleet wipe out a concord the other day)
That was my point.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
It's their product.
If you don't like it, don't buy it. Speak with your wallet, not forum whining.
Sounds good to me.
I think you are playing chicken little a bit.
================
Red5x5
Rift Guild:
http://defiantelders.guildportal.com
First off, some of you forget we are CAPITALIST. In order for game devs to make games they have to make something that sells. If they cater to the 100 hardcore whiners on this website that spend all thier time at work posting on these forums about how games "arnt hard core" enough are they going to make a profit? no they are not. Somehow I doubt that the people at ND want to get jobs hanging drywall or selling car insurance. Why should they make a game only a few people are going to play? Bottom line, its a GAME used for ENTERTAINMENT. this is not a way of life. you want hardcore so bad, why not join the USMC?
Second, as a player of JGC for along time I can say that the lack of dedicated PVP/PVE servers does not matter all that much. In fact, as a non PVPer, there was a time i made huge profits delivering supplies to PVP squads that couldnt go to factional space for one reason or another. I guess I was into the economics of PVP with out the need to prove what a man i was by PVPing all the time.
It was very rare that i got ganked by blood thirsty PVP junkies, it happend from time to time but it was never the end of the world. Over all I would say its because of the jerkwad PVP mentality that games can not be made they way you want. You kill some defensless miner over & over because you can, not because there is skill involed. the miner says "screw it" stops playing, commodies dont get delivered to stations, equipment doesnt get made, pretty soon the only ones left are the PVPers.
sounds like a fun game? Some players like to mine, some like to be space truckers, some like to be police, some like to be pirates. it takes all types to make this game work. and it takes all types to make this game fun. I guess waiting to see how it turns out is to much to ask. So lets all just continue reading what we want & ignoring what we dont want so we only see half the picture & get all bent out of shape over what ifs & what nots. Seems to be what alot of you do best.
Personally I look forward to our new Net Devil overloards & look forward to loosing sleep because of this game.
anyway, I best get back to selling drywall to car insurance hangers.
Well maybe because that community will make up the majority of JG:E's core fan base. The one's that will play the game for years, the ones that have been playing the original for years and been loyal supporters of ND, promote the game unofficially, help generate hype for it.
Who do you think they should cater to? People who have never heard of the game? People who play WoW or WAR?
I never played the original and have only been following the game for a short while but i share some of the same concerns as this "biased community".
You say they are minor yet a lot of us think they are major points so i could say you are being biased as well.
The fact is the devs have done a poor job of communicating with their fan base up until now about the direction they are taking the game in and have let the community debate and form their own opinion of what it would be like. So when they released some solid info this close to release that seemed to be the opposite of what people had been expecting then of course there will be an uproar.
I hope they release a good game even if i have some concerns now. Only time will tell.
How big in the community ? A few hundred vocal fans? A few thousand? Given the size of the market MMO needs to shoot for (at least hundred of thousands range), a few hundred hardcore fans don't matter at all. Given the size of the market, it is silly not trying to attract a larger audience.
Plus, there is NO PvE focus, solo-enable and casual friendly SPACE FIGHTER MMO game out there. It is their chance to grab that market.
Plus, i highly doubt they will actually lose all the JGC fans. Sure, they will lose some vocal hard core players but as WOW has demonstrated succinctly, the market is not about them anymore.
In my experience high death loss & a few vocal egotistic PvP kids tend to ruin mmorpg's for the majority that just want to play for fun & some personal career progression.
After all not everyone can be the best at PVP so someone has to lose.
If what the devs have said is true it means that the game should have a much wider general appeal.