*WARNING!!! This thread will require you to read everything and engage in deep thought and conversation. If you cannot do this, then you're wasting your time* To avoid responses concerning my experience in the genre, I've been playing any and all MMO's since 2001. So down to the topic at hand. What makes MMORPG's worth $15/mo when no other genre charges that amount? * It's not the quests, because single player games offer much more complex quests. Some games even offer the players the ability to change the game world with their decisions. * It's not the group play, because there are numerous examples of single player games allowing a Co-op mode for their games. * It's not the PvP, because there are numerous single player games offering the ability to PvP against others in a multiplayer mode. * It can't be the chat, since anyone can IM others or join chat rooms for free. What is it exactly about MMORPG's that hasn't been done for free, that makes it worth your money. Really think about this. Many people admit to doing large grinds whose only goal is to keep you subscribing. In my opinion, it's illogical to pay extra money to get the same gameplay you can get for free. If you have a logical reason why MMO's should charge a subscription, please reply with it. But before you do, ask yourself if that reason has been given for free elsewhere. In my opinion, the only distinguishing feature is that MMO's allow you to be a hamster. "Give me $15 and I'll let you jog on this treadmill for 30 days," says the MMO company. Keep in mind that while quality may justify a product having more value than something of lesser quality, a game mechanic of good quality alone doesn't justify a subsciption if someone else offers it for free.
What about the IP? What about the combination of everything you listed on there? It's also the fact that MMOs offer a "world" that is never offline ( besides updates, crashes, etc) in which the player can just jump in. No single player game can offer that. It basically means, if you want to play the game, you HAVE to play online; single players give you a choice. Most MMO worlds are also seemingly large compared to multiplayer modes of single player games where it's usually based on "joining a server" or a "room" or something along those lines. Note that I said seemingly, because most MMOs are basically an illusion of large worlds, even though most of the action takes places in intances (not all games though mind you), and player hubs are just large chat rooms basically. But we live in a world of illusions and people are happier when things seem "tied together" when they're actually not.
You've basically reinforced my point, possibly without meaning to. Logically, there is no reason to subscribe to a game based off the factors you provided, because it doesn't matter if the game is offline or online when you're not playing it. It only matters that the game is online when you are playing it, which a single player game with co-op guarantees, since your or a friend controls that server. Game world size can be bigger in single player games, because they don't have to support 10k people you don't play with or care about. I haven't personally measured single player maps to MMO maps, but I doubt you have either, so the size can be argued either way. I could say single player maps are larger than MMO's, since you can't prove me wrong.
As you said, it's the illusion of this or that, which is illogical. So logically, nothing really justifies the monthly fee.
I don't think you understand the meaning of something being "logical". If you agree that the premise of an illusion is a reason why people pay the $15 fee, then the justification is valid.
You also seem to misunderstand by what I say when I mean a "large world". It's not about the physical size of the maps, it's about the active parts of the world. Single player games narrow the scope down to your player only, it doesn't matter what happens on the other side of the map. However, MMOs offer a fully interactive world in which there are players everywhere, and the things THEY do can effect how you play. That is your "world".
Let me ask you something, if I could give you the choice to live in a world with only the people who are close to you, would you?
*WARNING!!! This thread will require you to read everything and engage in deep thought and conversation. If you cannot do this, then you're wasting your time* To avoid responses concerning my experience in the genre, I've been playing any and all MMO's since 2001. So down to the topic at hand. What makes MMORPG's worth $15/mo when no other genre charges that amount? * It's not the quests, because single player games offer much more complex quests. Some games even offer the players the ability to change the game world with their decisions. * It's not the group play, because there are numerous examples of single player games allowing a Co-op mode for their games. * It's not the PvP, because there are numerous single player games offering the ability to PvP against others in a multiplayer mode. * It can't be the chat, since anyone can IM others or join chat rooms for free. What is it exactly about MMORPG's that hasn't been done for free, that makes it worth your money. Really think about this. Many people admit to doing large grinds whose only goal is to keep you subscribing. In my opinion, it's illogical to pay extra money to get the same gameplay you can get for free. If you have a logical reason why MMO's should charge a subscription, please reply with it. But before you do, ask yourself if that reason has been given for free elsewhere. In my opinion, the only distinguishing feature is that MMO's allow you to be a hamster. "Give me $15 and I'll let you jog on this treadmill for 30 days," says the MMO company. Keep in mind that while quality may justify a product having more value than something of lesser quality, a game mechanic of good quality alone doesn't justify a subsciption if someone else offers it for free.
I think honestly that its that MMO's take all those things and put them all together.
I think that also its the thought of us doing all these things in a seamless world with thousands of other players.
I think that those two things really draw most people into the MMO field IMO.
The United States is a nation of laws: badly written and randomly enforced.- Frank Zappa
They make you pay the 15 dollars because unlike a single player game it's ever-evolving and they must continue to pay the staff even after release. Plus the server upkeep fees.
I play MMORPG's (hences paying the fee) because I get the quests, co-op, PvP, and an awesome world that I can explore with others. When I get awesome armor, or a ship, I can show off and brag about it. Not to mention MMORPGs usually offer more freedom, no setting you in a direct path. Currently I'm actually just waiting for my Vanguard sub to run out, then I'll resub to EVE, LOTRO, and WAR. The three MMORPGs I personally like the most and put the most time into in the shortest amount of time (if that makes sense). Otherwise, I'll be playing Mass Effect.
ADDITION: I also play MMOs because I hate retarded AI. Like when you're playing a 'team-based' shooter and you just want to blow the heads off every team member. In MMOs that's either a tenfold feeling, or it completely disappears.
____________________________ Telthalion Rohircil - Guardian - Elemandir - Lord of The Rings Online --- == RIP == Torey - Commando - Orion - Tabula Rasa == RIP == --- Jordaniel Torey - Navy Megathron, Active Armor Tank - Tranquility - EVE Online --- Torey Scott - Rifleman - Fallen Earth ____________________________
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but I know World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein
*WARNING!!! This thread will require you to read everything and engage in deep thought and conversation. If you cannot do this, then you're wasting your time* To avoid responses concerning my experience in the genre, I've been playing any and all MMO's since 2001. So down to the topic at hand. What makes MMORPG's worth $15/mo when no other genre charges that amount? * It's not the quests, because single player games offer much more complex quests. Some games even offer the players the ability to change the game world with their decisions. * It's not the group play, because there are numerous examples of single player games allowing a Co-op mode for their games. * It's not the PvP, because there are numerous single player games offering the ability to PvP against others in a multiplayer mode. * It can't be the chat, since anyone can IM others or join chat rooms for free. What is it exactly about MMORPG's that hasn't been done for free, that makes it worth your money. Really think about this. Many people admit to doing large grinds whose only goal is to keep you subscribing. In my opinion, it's illogical to pay extra money to get the same gameplay you can get for free. If you have a logical reason why MMO's should charge a subscription, please reply with it. But before you do, ask yourself if that reason has been given for free elsewhere. In my opinion, the only distinguishing feature is that MMO's allow you to be a hamster. "Give me $15 and I'll let you jog on this treadmill for 30 days," says the MMO company. Keep in mind that while quality may justify a product having more value than something of lesser quality, a game mechanic of good quality alone doesn't justify a subsciption if someone else offers it for free.
What about the IP? What about the combination of everything you listed on there? It's also the fact that MMOs offer a "world" that is never offline ( besides updates, crashes, etc) in which the player can just jump in. No single player game can offer that. It basically means, if you want to play the game, you HAVE to play online; single players give you a choice. Most MMO worlds are also seemingly large compared to multiplayer modes of single player games where it's usually based on "joining a server" or a "room" or something along those lines. Note that I said seemingly, because most MMOs are basically an illusion of large worlds, even though most of the action takes places in intances (not all games though mind you), and player hubs are just large chat rooms basically. But we live in a world of illusions and people are happier when things seem "tied together" when they're actually not.
You've basically reinforced my point, possibly without meaning to. Logically, there is no reason to subscribe to a game based off the factors you provided, because it doesn't matter if the game is offline or online when you're not playing it. It only matters that the game is online when you are playing it, which a single player game with co-op guarantees, since your or a friend controls that server. Game world size can be bigger in single player games, because they don't have to support 10k people you don't play with or care about. I haven't personally measured single player maps to MMO maps, but I doubt you have either, so the size can be argued either way. I could say single player maps are larger than MMO's, since you can't prove me wrong.
As you said, it's the illusion of this or that, which is illogical. So logically, nothing really justifies the monthly fee.
I don't think you understand the meaning of something being "logical". If you agree that the premise of an illusion is a reason why people pay the $15 fee, then the justification is valid.
You also seem to misunderstand by what I say when I mean a "large world". It's not about the physical size of the maps, it's about the active parts of the world. Single player games narrow the scope down to your player only, it doesn't matter what happens on the other side of the map. However, MMOs offer a fully interactive world in which there are players everywhere, and the things THEY do can effect how you play. That is your "world".
Let me ask you something, if I could give you the choice to live in a world with only the people who are close to you, would you?
But in reality, players on the other side of the map don't effect you at all. Only people close to you could arguably effect you, and that's because they are competing for the same spawn, assiting you kill a mob, or are trying to kill you or you them.
As for your last question, I'd prefer that, but that is too simple of an answer to a complex question. It takes millions of people to support one family (ie. create and sell clothes, food, housing, water, entertainment), whereas way back when one family could survive on their own and do fine. If the people I knew and cared about had the ability to help each other survive, then yes I'd like to live in a world with just us. There are some really good people in the world that I don't know and would like to know, probably, but there are many times more bad people. In a MMORPG, it's even worse. The likely-hood of running into a random person that gives a shit about you is close to nil. In modern MMO's, getting two people to even exchange words in-passing is almost nil as well. So like I said, what people do in a MMO doesn't matter, since the majority of people don't care, and those that claim to care, don't ever actually try to communicate with those outside of their little circle.
Simple short answer, because people will pay it. I remember when UO was only 9.99 or whatever and then they were going up to 12.99 or was it .95 dont remember I about flipped shits and vowed to quit and actually did, then I moved to SWG and how much was that, prices are what they are and we will continue to pay them.
Interesting played list.You seem to send 2-3 months playing a game then sack it off :P
It all boils to to the fun factor. If you're playing the game on average 1 hour a night, and having fun ... thats 30hours hours of fun at 50p an hour (assuming £15 a month subs).
For alot of people, they're not actually paying to play the game, they're paying to have fun with their friends. Some people have more fun doing a raid together with people they've met face to face than paying 20 bucks to go bowling or whatever.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
I'm disappointed OP. Your warning at the top lead me to believe you would use scientific reasoning to form an educated guess on why people pay monthly fees for a game. Your post of insignificant stature leads me to believe youre only in it for postcount +1. Shame on you.
We pay a monthly fee because we enjoy the games enough to put dinner on the developers' table. End of story.
im so tired of wasting money on mmos now ive canceld everything and just waiting for swtor and aion and maybe mortal online if they have a beta or free trial at least for it
Absolutely nothing makes these mmos worth paying a monthly fee. Virtually all of them are just single player games in a permanent multiplayer mode that have been plonked on the internet. I can hardly think of any online games which charge a monthly fee that allow its players to do anything interesting or unique that really changes the game world or has any lasting impact on anything at all.........and if we arent getting anything that a single player game can already do then what are we paying for? In fact mmos dont really take full advantage of being online at all really. On top of this the gameplay in mmos is extremely weak when compared to a single player game.
I think mmo games developers are just taking the piss out of its players. Its great for the games companies because they dont have to worry about coding clever and detailed AI, inventing great game mechanics and gameplay or working on making new and interesting content........basicly because people have become so used to the low standards of mmos that they now expect and demand it.
Look at a game like Crysis where the computer controlled opponents react to what you do by trying to hunt for you if you kill some of their troops, or flank you or try and flush you out with grenades when they see the opportunity. You can shoot a tree and it might fall onto and kill an opponent. You can steal vehicles and drive them around and inflict damage on them and have them destroyed. If you take cover in a wooden shack then it can be dismantled around you, forcing you to seek better cover. Look at the Halflife games where you can interact with the terrain to your advantage, lure enemies into fighting with each other, use different weapons for different situations. These games rely on exciting and involving gameplay which makes you feel immersed in their worlds. They also tell you very involving stories through the actions that occur and the gameplay of the game itself. In contrast mmos have none of this interesting gameplay. Instead they tend to rely on large amounts of text files (usually poorly written) to tell the players stories to compensate for the fact that there really isnt anything for the player to actually do or get involved in. Why cant mmos immerse its players with good gameplay instead of shitty text files? This level of interaction with the game world never seems to happen in an mmo and on the few occasions when games developers hint at the possibility of including reaction/skill based game mechanics in an mmo then people moan about it and say that this isnt what an rpg should be about.......as though they actually WANT mmos to be limited, simple and boring.
Of course thats not to say they dont put any effort in at all but its certainly not really much more effort than what you would see in a single player game and certainly isnt something they should charge a monthly fee for. The content in mmos generally favours quantity over quality. The games developers need to give a reason for charging the players more money so they type up lots of stories as this is a lot easier than actually making real game content with real gameplay. People fall for this very easily as it gives the impression of a vast world with lots of depth when actually its the complete opposite of that - its a shallow and repetitive static world that is loaded with lots of stuff to read.
Mmos are designed to make the player feel comfortable by getting them into a rhythm. Think about how a mentally disturbed or particularly distressed person might sometimes fall into a rocking motion to give themselves a feeling of comfort. Mmos work on the same priniciple. They make the player get into the habit of performing repetitive actions and they will gradually begin to associate a feeling of well being by playing these online games. They then connect certain actions with certain false rewards. In most mmos you get rewarded for what is nothing more than clicking on a few buttons......and what is this reward anyway? A weapon or piece of armour that doesnt change the way the game is played at all. Its just a copy of what the player already has but its dressed up differently with a different name, a different stat boost and if you're lucky it might look different too. Its clearly just a way of fostering a feeling of addiction. Thousands of players will spend hours, days, weeks, months and years repeating the same set of actions simply because they are addicted and not because the games are actually good. Hell they get me hooked even though I know that the games I am playing are total shit. Does any of this warrant a monthly fee? I dont think so.
Imagine playing WoW without the level progression and all the items. Would anyone play it just for fun? Compare that to the games I mentioned above (Crysis and Halflife). Those games are actually fun to play. They dont need to reward its players by showering them with exp points and "shinies" as this is nothing more than a reward for enduring piss poor gameplay and mind melting boredom. The gameplay should be the reward in itself but in mmos it just isnt.
All of this is deliberately set up to keep the player paying and playing with the vague promise that things will get better later on in the game when they reach the mythical end game content......which oddly enough isnt any better than what you would get in the multiplayer aspect of a single player game anyway.
Unfortunately it has now become acceptable to charge a monthly fee for an mmo. In most of them the players are just playing a very basic and badly made co-op game with the features of a chat room added. No wonder there are so many piss poor mmos being made lately. The games companies have an open opportunity to rip people off and rake in shit loads of money so they are taking that opportunity. In fact it has even become acceptable to release games that are nowhere near being complete and then get the players to pay for the privelege of play testing them while the games companies spend the following years finsihing them.
Guildwars got it right by not charging a monthly fee and oddly enough their product was better than most others on the market. I really hope other games companies follow their example but sadly we all know that it isnt going to happen. Of course roughly £10 a month is not a lot of money to pay so many people dont mind this extra fee and again the games companies know that people think this way. They know that lots of people really enjoy the prospect of playing a game online as it feels more involving when other people are involved.......even when the game itself is limited and poor.......so for this reason they will continue to charge a monthly fee even though it clearly is not deserved.
Simple short answer, because people will pay it. I remember when UO was only 9.99 or whatever and then they were going up to 12.99 or was it .95 dont remember I about flipped shits and vowed to quit and actually did, then I moved to SWG and how much was that, prices are what they are and we will continue to pay them.
BTW, I ended up going back to UO for awhile! I miss that game and what it used to be to me... oh well!
They make you pay the 15 dollars because unlike a single player game it's ever-evolving and they must continue to pay the staff even after release. Plus the server upkeep fees. I play MMORPG's (hences paying the fee) because I get the quests, co-op, PvP, and an awesome world that I can explore with others. When I get awesome armor, or a ship, I can show off and brag about it. Not to mention MMORPGs usually offer more freedom, no setting you in a direct path. Currently I'm actually just waiting for my Vanguard sub to run out, then I'll resub to EVE, LOTRO, and WAR. The three MMORPGs I personally like the most and put the most time into in the shortest amount of time (if that makes sense). Otherwise, I'll be playing Mass Effect.
ADDITION: I also play MMOs because I hate retarded AI. Like when you're playing a 'team-based' shooter and you just want to blow the heads off every team member. In MMOs that's either a tenfold feeling, or it completely disappears.
Can you give examples of how a MMO evolves? I'll pick a game that you played and you tell me how it evolved in the month of January. How did WAR evolve in January? I don't think MMO's evolve, because the quests you do will still be there after you're gone. The quests don't actually change the game world. PvP never amounts to anything. So really, nothing ever revolves. So it's not true that MMO's are ever-evolving. If they were, I wouldn't have created this thread. Instead I'd be playing that game.
Anyhow, I think I've addressed every response a person could possibly bring up. So in conclusion, I still don't think MMO's offer anything unique that other games don't offer for free, that justifies their monthly fee. Does that mean I'll never play a MMO again? No it doesn't. When I see a MMORPG that's interesting to me, I'll subscribe and play it, knowing that the monthly fee isn't justified comparitively, because $15/mo isn't much for entertainment. So in the end, the only way to determine if a game is worth the money is to ask yourself if it offers something more than what's already available for free and if you have the money to pay it. For me, no game out there is worth the money, except maybe EvE, but I don't like EvE. I think SW:ToR will be worth my money and I plan to play it. Mainly because I'm a Star Wars fanatic and will play anything where I can be a Jedi.
So I guess it's like another person said for me. I'll play a game when I see an IP I like being turned into a MMORPG or when I see a combination of features I like that aren't offered anywhere else.
If you factor in the costs to create, maintain and provide a service, it is perfectly reasonable for a $15.00 fee per month. As far as trying to use logic for why people would play one game or another and if the cost is worth it, not factoring in the previous costs I mention, it is pointless because people play a game for enjoyment, fun. Logic and emotion do not mix well.
You (OP) mentioned that eve is worth it for the monthly fee. Personally I do not think so. I spend less than I do on single players games for a longer time. I remember being in a good group camping out lguk in EQ for hours on end. I had a blast. It was very fun, killing waves of mobs and bosses and getting drops while chatting with my group. Some people call that a grind, I call it fun. That is why I played EQ for several years and other games like daoc. Interacting with hundreds of players in a relic raid, trying to survive and kill off enemies was exhilarating.
I would pay more for a game if it could hold my attention as long as EQ and daoc did. As it is, it is only 50 cents a day or less. Heck, I went the other weekend with a friend to play miniature golf for a few hours and it cost me $17.00. I spend even more going to a baseball game.
Enjoyment is subjective and only each person can say whether the cost is worth it. $15.00 a month? Hah, thats nothing for what I get in return. And if you think about it logically, that isn't much more than the costs that are put into and used to maintain it.
Absolutely nothing makes these mmos worth paying a monthly fee. Virtually all of them are just single player games in a permanent multiplayer mode that have been plonked on the internet. I can hardly think of any online games which charge a monthly fee that allow its players to do anything interesting or unique that really changes the game world or has any lasting impact on anything at all.........and if we arent getting anything that a single player game can already do then what are we paying for? In fact mmos dont really take full advantage of being online at all really. On top of this the gameplay in mmos is extremely weak when compared to a single player game. I think mmo games developers are just taking the piss out of its players. Its great for the games companies because they dont have to worry about coding clever and detailed AI, inventing great game mechanics and gameplay or working on making new and interesting content........basicly because people have become so used to the low standards of mmos that they now expect and demand it. Look at a game like Crysis where the computer controlled opponents react to what you do by trying to hunt for you if you kill some of their troops, or flank you or try and flush you out with grenades when they see the opportunity. You can shoot a tree and it might fall onto and kill an opponent. You can steal vehicles and drive them around and inflict damage on them and have them destroyed. If you take cover in a wooden shack then it can be dismantled around you, forcing you to seek better cover. Look at the Halflife games where you can interact with the terrain to your advantage, lure enemies into fighting with each other, use different weapons for different situations. These games rely on exciting and involving gameplay which makes you feel immersed in their worlds. They also tell you very involving stories through the actions that occur and the gameplay of the game itself. In contrast mmos have none of this interesting gameplay. Instead they tend to rely on large amounts of text files (usually poorly written) to tell the players stories to compensate for the fact that there really isnt anything for the player to actually do or get involved in. Why cant mmos immerse its players with good gameplay instead of shitty text files? This level of interaction with the game world never seems to happen in an mmo and on the few occasions when games developers hint at the possibility of including reaction/skill based game mechanics in an mmo then people moan about it and say that this isnt what an rpg should be about.......as though they actually WANT mmos to be limited, simple and boring. Of course thats not to say they dont put any effort in at all but its certainly not really much more effort than what you would see in a single player game and certainly isnt something they should charge a monthly fee for. The content in mmos generally favours quantity over quality. The games developers need to give a reason for charging the players more money so they type up lots of stories as this is a lot easier than actually making real game content with real gameplay. People fall for this very easily as it gives the impression of a vast world with lots of depth when actually its the complete opposite of that - its a shallow and repetitive static world that is loaded with lots of stuff to read. Mmos are designed to make the player feel comfortable by getting them into a rhythm. Think about how a mentally disturbed or particularly distressed person might sometimes fall into a rocking motion to give themselves a feeling of comfort. Mmos work on the same priniciple. They make the player get into the habit of performing repetitive actions and they will gradually begin to associate a feeling of well being by playing these online games. They then connect certain actions with certain false rewards. In most mmos you get rewarded for what is nothing more than clicking on a few buttons......and what is this reward anyway? A weapon or piece of armour that doesnt change the way the game is played at all. Its just a copy of what the player already has but its dressed up differently with a different name, a different stat boost and if you're lucky it might look different too. Its clearly just a way of fostering a feeling of addiction. Thousands of players will spend hours, days, weeks, months and years repeating the same set of actions simply because they are addicted and not because the games are actually good. Hell they get me hooked even though I know that the games I am playing are total shit. Does any of this warrant a monthly fee? I dont think so. Imagine playing WoW without the level progression and all the items. Would anyone play it just for fun? Compare that to the games I mentioned above (Crysis and Halflife). Those games are actually fun to play. They dont need to reward its players by showering them with exp points and "shinies" as this is nothing more than a reward for enduring piss poor gameplay and mind melting boredom. The gameplay should be the reward in itself but in mmos it just isnt. All of this is deliberately set up to keep the player paying and playing with the vague promise that things will get better later on in the game when they reach the mythical end game content......which oddly enough isnt any better than what you would get in the multiplayer aspect of a single player game anyway. Unfortunately it has now become acceptable to charge a monthly fee for an mmo. In most of them the players are just playing a very basic and badly made co-op game with the features of a chat room added. No wonder there are so many piss poor mmos being made lately. The games companies have an open opportunity to rip people off and rake in shit loads of money so they are taking that opportunity. In fact it has even become acceptable to release games that are nowhere near being complete and then get the players to pay for the privelege of play testing them while the games companies spend the following years finsihing them. Guildwars got it right by not charging a monthly fee and oddly enough their product was better than most others on the market. I really hope other games companies follow their example but sadly we all know that it isnt going to happen. Of course roughly £10 a month is not a lot of money to pay so many people dont mind this extra fee and again the games companies know that people think this way. They know that lots of people really enjoy the prospect of playing a game online as it feels more involving when other people are involved.......even when the game itself is limited and poor.......so for this reason they will continue to charge a monthly fee even though it clearly is not deserved.
First off you sound like a Jaded ex MMO player. Second. I pay to play an MMO because I enjoy it and it is worth my entertainment dollars. Just like going out to a movie or going to the bar with your friends.
The games you talked about are not free, they cost 49.99 to buy and how long do you play them? till you beat them and maybe a few times afterwards and some how you think that is better then a month fee for a game that I play everyday for a month?
I do not understand yoru logic because it has know logic.
Game companies charge a month fee to make a profit, just like every other company on the face of the earth wants to make a profit. They do not do it to rip off hte players, they do it to make money and be able to support the game.
You have ever right to your opinion but your post makes it sound like any one willing to pay a monthy fee to play an MMORPG is stupid and is getting ripped off. Which is not the case.
I am happy to pay the small monthy fee for the fact that the game I am playing currently keeps me entertained and I feel that $15 a month is a fair fee for the entertainment value I personally get out of the game.
Ill tell you that I would rather pay $15 /month then $100 every weekend going out to the bars. An MMO can save you $385 or at least for me(Wife and me). On occasion I have to go out I can't just sit here and play, but I still pay.
Unfortunately the requirement has become simplified to adding end game content.
Either Developers are lazy and choose to target one area or they have no clue.If you want a game to keep growing and keep the interest for new players ,then you need to re work ALL the game,every last inch not just end game.If anyone has paid attention over the years ,they would have noticed that pretty much 99% of the gamersd go back and play the game again under a different class/job/role.So a developer should take that money and keep the ENTIRE subscription base happy ,NOT just the end game fanatics.
Adding new classes to a game keeps intrigue and adding in some new abilities and spells also does the trick.I expect a developer to also add fresh new content and add more to the database of other content such as craftings/boss fights/NM's.
Personally i have not liked the way developers add new content with our sub money,they ALL do it exactly the same,by adding some new continent in some far away warp zone.That ruins the immersion of the game with new players and totally separates thew entire player base,just a brutal approach IMO.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Absolutely nothing makes these mmos worth paying a monthly fee. Virtually all of them are just single player games in a permanent multiplayer mode that have been plonked on the internet. I can hardly think of any online games which charge a monthly fee that allow its players to do anything interesting or unique that really changes the game world or has any lasting impact on anything at all.........and if we arent getting anything that a single player game can already do then what are we paying for? In fact mmos dont really take full advantage of being online at all really. On top of this the gameplay in mmos is extremely weak when compared to a single player game.
I snipped your post for organization purposes, but I read the whole thing and it was worth it. No offense to others on this forum, but neonwire hit the nail on the head. He explained exactly the train of thought that lead me to creating this thread. There's really nothing a person can say to refute what he said, because it's true. Those choosing to play MMO's are doing so for addictive reasons, or for some other non-game related reason.
Neonwire,
As soon as I got to the point where I said I won't level up another character (ie. job on the treadmill), I realized that there isn't anything else to do. Any gameplay actually worth being apart of doesn't exist in a MMO or is already present in a free MMO, such as Guild Wars, as you mentioned. In fact, guild wars campaigns actually evolve as you complete the story, which is nice. It's still not up to par with single player games, but it's as close as it comes right now. The fact that Guild Wars offers a compelling story, strategic gameplay, arena pvp, and the ability to do this with others all for free makes the game worth the initial investment and is a direct slap in the face for anyone trying to justify a monthly fee for other MMO's.
The good thing about this though, is that people don't have to justify anything to me, to you, or to anyone. People will instead choose to point this out, give a lame excuse why they are sheep, and continue clicking their way through life, wasting the precious short life they have. Luckily for me, this addiction makes competition less fierce for jobs in the real world, as I have extra time to be ambitious, now that I'm not letting "leveling" consume my life.
I happily pay monthly fees because I want an evolving game. Actually, I coughed up $199 for the LoTRO Lifetime deal but I'd been paying monthly fees on other games for years before LOTRO.
I pay because I want a world that is ever changing. A game that has NO END in sight. I suppose I could play free games but I want new content added every 2 or 3 months and the P2P games are better at that. And I want breathtaking graphics and rich ambient sounds and the F2P just don't cut it- for me anyways!
And $15 a month is nothing! It gives me @ 100 hours of enjoyment a month. I pay $60 a month to use my cell phone for 10 minutes per month LOL! I pay $60 a month for Direct TV to watch 3 TV shows a week- so 10 hours of fun a month for $60!!
I found CoX fun to play and not a grind for years. It was worth the fee. It didn't click for everyone but it really did click for a small group of people.
So it could be that the game is just actually fun.
*WARNING!!! This thread will require you to read everything and engage in deep thought and conversation. If you cannot do this, then you're wasting your time* To avoid responses concerning my experience in the genre, I've been playing any and all MMO's since 2001. So down to the topic at hand. What makes MMORPG's worth $15/mo when no other genre charges that amount? * It's not the quests, because single player games offer much more complex quests. Some games even offer the players the ability to change the game world with their decisions. * It's not the group play, because there are numerous examples of single player games allowing a Co-op mode for their games. * It's not the PvP, because there are numerous single player games offering the ability to PvP against others in a multiplayer mode. * It can't be the chat, since anyone can IM others or join chat rooms for free. What is it exactly about MMORPG's that hasn't been done for free, that makes it worth your money. Really think about this. Many people admit to doing large grinds whose only goal is to keep you subscribing. In my opinion, it's illogical to pay extra money to get the same gameplay you can get for free. If you have a logical reason why MMO's should charge a subscription, please reply with it. But before you do, ask yourself if that reason has been given for free elsewhere. In my opinion, the only distinguishing feature is that MMO's allow you to be a hamster. "Give me $15 and I'll let you jog on this treadmill for 30 days," says the MMO company. Keep in mind that while quality may justify a product having more value than something of lesser quality, a game mechanic of good quality alone doesn't justify a subsciption if someone else offers it for free.
What about the IP? What about the combination of everything you listed on there? It's also the fact that MMOs offer a "world" that is never offline ( besides updates, crashes, etc) in which the player can just jump in. No single player game can offer that. It basically means, if you want to play the game, you HAVE to play online; single players give you a choice. Most MMO worlds are also seemingly large compared to multiplayer modes of single player games where it's usually based on "joining a server" or a "room" or something along those lines. Note that I said seemingly, because most MMOs are basically an illusion of large worlds, even though most of the action takes places in intances (not all games though mind you), and player hubs are just large chat rooms basically. But we live in a world of illusions and people are happier when things seem "tied together" when they're actually not.
At first I was going to disagree with what you said but once I had read all of it I actually totally agree. Its all about the illusion that these mmos create. But then the answer to the question "Is an mmo worth paying a monthly fee for?" clearly becomes a great big NO. The games companies are just tricking the player into thinking they are getting something more for their money when in fact all the developers are really doing is sacrificing quality for quantity. However these developers know that they can get away with this because the players occupy each other and help to distract each other from the low quality of the games.
Make a basic low quality single player game. Put it on a server. Let multiple people play it at the same time. Add a chat channel. Ta da! You have an mmo and a monthly income.
If you factor in the costs to create, maintain and provide a service, it is perfectly reasonable for a $15.00 fee per month. As far as trying to use logic for why people would play one game or another and if the cost is worth it, not factoring in the previous costs I mention, it is pointless because people play a game for enjoyment, fun. Logic and emotion do not mix well. You (OP) mentioned that eve is worth it for the monthly fee. Personally I do not think so. I spend less than I do on single players games for a longer time. I remember being in a good group camping out lguk in EQ for hours on end. I had a blast. It was very fun, killing waves of mobs and bosses and getting drops while chatting with my group. Some people call that a grind, I call it fun. That is why I played EQ for several years and other games like daoc. Interacting with hundreds of players in a relic raid, trying to survive and kill off enemies was exhilarating. I would pay more for a game if it could hold my attention as long as EQ and daoc did. As it is, it is only 50 cents a day or less. Heck, I went the other weekend with a friend to play miniature golf for a few hours and it cost me $17.00. I spend even more going to a baseball game. Enjoyment is subjective and only each person can say whether the cost is worth it. $15.00 a month? Hah, thats nothing for what I get in return. And if you think about it logically, that isn't much more than the costs that are put into and used to maintain it.
Well, I agree with you on the older MMORPG's. MMORPG's back then offered a new experience not found in the world really yet, so charging a fee for that experience made more sense. Fast forward to the copies of those early games and you end up asking yourself why you keep paying a fee. What justifies that fee, other than fun.
But to each their own I guess. I can't argue with fun, because fun is subjective and I am no one to tell a person how they can or can't have fun. Although I admit to being perplexed at how a person can have fun in these low quality worlds developers are pushing out these days. When I say low quality, I'm talking about the quality of gameplay and content, not the quality of their hardware or coding skills.
Ill tell you that I would rather pay $15 /month then $100 every weekend going out to the bars. An MMO can save you $385 or at least for me(Wife and me). On occasion I have to go out I can't just sit here and play, but I still pay.
To each their own. I'd rather spend $100 per weekend and have face to face interaction with real people, and enjoy real drinks, and real music, and then real sex afterwards, than to have impersonal interaction with teenagers over the internet, drink internet booze, listen to the same game music over and over, and cyber with sick men playing female toons (plus wife would kill me).
Back when MMO's were played by predominately adult mature gamers, I agreed with you on this. Now that I'm several times more likely to run into a teenager, young adult, or a gamer who takes the game too seriously, I'm left only with what the game itself offers, which is a low quality product compared to other forms of entertainment.
To me, a game that is fun and engaging, making me come back day after day is what i want. The fee in my eyes is to pay for a support team that fixes issues as they come up, keep the hampsters running and interacting with their client base in order to get good feedback so they can make the game better.
Unfortunately the requirement has become simplified to adding end game content. Either Developers are lazy and choose to target one area or they have no clue.If you want a game to keep growing and keep the interest for new players ,then you need to re work ALL the game,every last inch not just end game.If anyone has paid attention over the years ,they would have noticed that pretty much 99% of the gamersd go back and play the game again under a different class/job/role.So a developer should take that money and keep the ENTIRE subscription base happy ,NOT just the end game fanatics. Adding new classes to a game keeps intrigue and adding in some new abilities and spells also does the trick.I expect a developer to also add fresh new content and add more to the database of other content such as craftings/boss fights/NM's. Personally i have not liked the way developers add new content with our sub money,they ALL do it exactly the same,by adding some new continent in some far away warp zone.That ruins the immersion of the game with new players and totally separates thew entire player base,just a brutal approach IMO.
That would be worth the fee every month to me. I hate quests in MMORPG's, because their more like chores and you have to do those chores over and over again every time you create a new character. As new updates and expansions come out, they're usually geared for higher level players and not for the rerollers, new players, or disenchanted players looking to start over. Repeating content is never fun, especially when it's dull for anyone with a brain. Now if developers made rerolling fun and leveling up different from the last time you did it, then maybe I'd think the game is worth subbing to. That may be why I feel sandbox games are worth subbing to, because you aren't lead by the hand everywhere and you are more free to explore, build player cities, and actually build a second life in the game.
Comments
What about the IP? What about the combination of everything you listed on there? It's also the fact that MMOs offer a "world" that is never offline ( besides updates, crashes, etc) in which the player can just jump in. No single player game can offer that. It basically means, if you want to play the game, you HAVE to play online; single players give you a choice. Most MMO worlds are also seemingly large compared to multiplayer modes of single player games where it's usually based on "joining a server" or a "room" or something along those lines. Note that I said seemingly, because most MMOs are basically an illusion of large worlds, even though most of the action takes places in intances (not all games though mind you), and player hubs are just large chat rooms basically. But we live in a world of illusions and people are happier when things seem "tied together" when they're actually not.
You've basically reinforced my point, possibly without meaning to. Logically, there is no reason to subscribe to a game based off the factors you provided, because it doesn't matter if the game is offline or online when you're not playing it. It only matters that the game is online when you are playing it, which a single player game with co-op guarantees, since your or a friend controls that server. Game world size can be bigger in single player games, because they don't have to support 10k people you don't play with or care about. I haven't personally measured single player maps to MMO maps, but I doubt you have either, so the size can be argued either way. I could say single player maps are larger than MMO's, since you can't prove me wrong.
As you said, it's the illusion of this or that, which is illogical. So logically, nothing really justifies the monthly fee.
I don't think you understand the meaning of something being "logical". If you agree that the premise of an illusion is a reason why people pay the $15 fee, then the justification is valid.
You also seem to misunderstand by what I say when I mean a "large world". It's not about the physical size of the maps, it's about the active parts of the world. Single player games narrow the scope down to your player only, it doesn't matter what happens on the other side of the map. However, MMOs offer a fully interactive world in which there are players everywhere, and the things THEY do can effect how you play. That is your "world".
Let me ask you something, if I could give you the choice to live in a world with only the people who are close to you, would you?
I think honestly that its that MMO's take all those things and put them all together.
I think that also its the thought of us doing all these things in a seamless world with thousands of other players.
I think that those two things really draw most people into the MMO field IMO.
The United States is a nation of laws: badly written and randomly enforced.-
Frank Zappa
They make you pay the 15 dollars because unlike a single player game it's ever-evolving and they must continue to pay the staff even after release. Plus the server upkeep fees.
I play MMORPG's (hences paying the fee) because I get the quests, co-op, PvP, and an awesome world that I can explore with others. When I get awesome armor, or a ship, I can show off and brag about it. Not to mention MMORPGs usually offer more freedom, no setting you in a direct path. Currently I'm actually just waiting for my Vanguard sub to run out, then I'll resub to EVE, LOTRO, and WAR. The three MMORPGs I personally like the most and put the most time into in the shortest amount of time (if that makes sense). Otherwise, I'll be playing Mass Effect.
ADDITION: I also play MMOs because I hate retarded AI. Like when you're playing a 'team-based' shooter and you just want to blow the heads off every team member. In MMOs that's either a tenfold feeling, or it completely disappears.
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Telthalion Rohircil - Guardian - Elemandir - Lord of The Rings Online
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== RIP == Torey - Commando - Orion - Tabula Rasa == RIP ==
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Jordaniel Torey - Navy Megathron, Active Armor Tank - Tranquility - EVE Online
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Torey Scott - Rifleman - Fallen Earth
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"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but I know World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein
What about the IP? What about the combination of everything you listed on there? It's also the fact that MMOs offer a "world" that is never offline ( besides updates, crashes, etc) in which the player can just jump in. No single player game can offer that. It basically means, if you want to play the game, you HAVE to play online; single players give you a choice. Most MMO worlds are also seemingly large compared to multiplayer modes of single player games where it's usually based on "joining a server" or a "room" or something along those lines. Note that I said seemingly, because most MMOs are basically an illusion of large worlds, even though most of the action takes places in intances (not all games though mind you), and player hubs are just large chat rooms basically. But we live in a world of illusions and people are happier when things seem "tied together" when they're actually not.
You've basically reinforced my point, possibly without meaning to. Logically, there is no reason to subscribe to a game based off the factors you provided, because it doesn't matter if the game is offline or online when you're not playing it. It only matters that the game is online when you are playing it, which a single player game with co-op guarantees, since your or a friend controls that server. Game world size can be bigger in single player games, because they don't have to support 10k people you don't play with or care about. I haven't personally measured single player maps to MMO maps, but I doubt you have either, so the size can be argued either way. I could say single player maps are larger than MMO's, since you can't prove me wrong.
As you said, it's the illusion of this or that, which is illogical. So logically, nothing really justifies the monthly fee.
I don't think you understand the meaning of something being "logical". If you agree that the premise of an illusion is a reason why people pay the $15 fee, then the justification is valid.
You also seem to misunderstand by what I say when I mean a "large world". It's not about the physical size of the maps, it's about the active parts of the world. Single player games narrow the scope down to your player only, it doesn't matter what happens on the other side of the map. However, MMOs offer a fully interactive world in which there are players everywhere, and the things THEY do can effect how you play. That is your "world".
Let me ask you something, if I could give you the choice to live in a world with only the people who are close to you, would you?
But in reality, players on the other side of the map don't effect you at all. Only people close to you could arguably effect you, and that's because they are competing for the same spawn, assiting you kill a mob, or are trying to kill you or you them.
As for your last question, I'd prefer that, but that is too simple of an answer to a complex question. It takes millions of people to support one family (ie. create and sell clothes, food, housing, water, entertainment), whereas way back when one family could survive on their own and do fine. If the people I knew and cared about had the ability to help each other survive, then yes I'd like to live in a world with just us. There are some really good people in the world that I don't know and would like to know, probably, but there are many times more bad people. In a MMORPG, it's even worse. The likely-hood of running into a random person that gives a shit about you is close to nil. In modern MMO's, getting two people to even exchange words in-passing is almost nil as well. So like I said, what people do in a MMO doesn't matter, since the majority of people don't care, and those that claim to care, don't ever actually try to communicate with those outside of their little circle.
Simple short answer, because people will pay it. I remember when UO was only 9.99 or whatever and then they were going up to 12.99 or was it .95 dont remember I about flipped shits and vowed to quit and actually did, then I moved to SWG and how much was that, prices are what they are and we will continue to pay them.
Interesting played list.You seem to send 2-3 months playing a game then sack it off :P
It all boils to to the fun factor. If you're playing the game on average 1 hour a night, and having fun ... thats 30hours hours of fun at 50p an hour (assuming £15 a month subs).
Personally, I dont think thats bad at all.
For alot of people, they're not actually paying to play the game, they're paying to have fun with their friends. Some people have more fun doing a raid together with people they've met face to face than paying 20 bucks to go bowling or whatever.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
I'm disappointed OP. Your warning at the top lead me to believe you would use scientific reasoning to form an educated guess on why people pay monthly fees for a game. Your post of insignificant stature leads me to believe youre only in it for postcount +1. Shame on you.
We pay a monthly fee because we enjoy the games enough to put dinner on the developers' table. End of story.
im so tired of wasting money on mmos now ive canceld everything and just waiting for swtor and aion and maybe mortal online if they have a beta or free trial at least for it
Absolutely nothing makes these mmos worth paying a monthly fee. Virtually all of them are just single player games in a permanent multiplayer mode that have been plonked on the internet. I can hardly think of any online games which charge a monthly fee that allow its players to do anything interesting or unique that really changes the game world or has any lasting impact on anything at all.........and if we arent getting anything that a single player game can already do then what are we paying for? In fact mmos dont really take full advantage of being online at all really. On top of this the gameplay in mmos is extremely weak when compared to a single player game.
I think mmo games developers are just taking the piss out of its players. Its great for the games companies because they dont have to worry about coding clever and detailed AI, inventing great game mechanics and gameplay or working on making new and interesting content........basicly because people have become so used to the low standards of mmos that they now expect and demand it.
Look at a game like Crysis where the computer controlled opponents react to what you do by trying to hunt for you if you kill some of their troops, or flank you or try and flush you out with grenades when they see the opportunity. You can shoot a tree and it might fall onto and kill an opponent. You can steal vehicles and drive them around and inflict damage on them and have them destroyed. If you take cover in a wooden shack then it can be dismantled around you, forcing you to seek better cover. Look at the Halflife games where you can interact with the terrain to your advantage, lure enemies into fighting with each other, use different weapons for different situations. These games rely on exciting and involving gameplay which makes you feel immersed in their worlds. They also tell you very involving stories through the actions that occur and the gameplay of the game itself. In contrast mmos have none of this interesting gameplay. Instead they tend to rely on large amounts of text files (usually poorly written) to tell the players stories to compensate for the fact that there really isnt anything for the player to actually do or get involved in. Why cant mmos immerse its players with good gameplay instead of shitty text files? This level of interaction with the game world never seems to happen in an mmo and on the few occasions when games developers hint at the possibility of including reaction/skill based game mechanics in an mmo then people moan about it and say that this isnt what an rpg should be about.......as though they actually WANT mmos to be limited, simple and boring.
Of course thats not to say they dont put any effort in at all but its certainly not really much more effort than what you would see in a single player game and certainly isnt something they should charge a monthly fee for. The content in mmos generally favours quantity over quality. The games developers need to give a reason for charging the players more money so they type up lots of stories as this is a lot easier than actually making real game content with real gameplay. People fall for this very easily as it gives the impression of a vast world with lots of depth when actually its the complete opposite of that - its a shallow and repetitive static world that is loaded with lots of stuff to read.
Mmos are designed to make the player feel comfortable by getting them into a rhythm. Think about how a mentally disturbed or particularly distressed person might sometimes fall into a rocking motion to give themselves a feeling of comfort. Mmos work on the same priniciple. They make the player get into the habit of performing repetitive actions and they will gradually begin to associate a feeling of well being by playing these online games. They then connect certain actions with certain false rewards. In most mmos you get rewarded for what is nothing more than clicking on a few buttons......and what is this reward anyway? A weapon or piece of armour that doesnt change the way the game is played at all. Its just a copy of what the player already has but its dressed up differently with a different name, a different stat boost and if you're lucky it might look different too. Its clearly just a way of fostering a feeling of addiction. Thousands of players will spend hours, days, weeks, months and years repeating the same set of actions simply because they are addicted and not because the games are actually good. Hell they get me hooked even though I know that the games I am playing are total shit. Does any of this warrant a monthly fee? I dont think so.
Imagine playing WoW without the level progression and all the items. Would anyone play it just for fun? Compare that to the games I mentioned above (Crysis and Halflife). Those games are actually fun to play. They dont need to reward its players by showering them with exp points and "shinies" as this is nothing more than a reward for enduring piss poor gameplay and mind melting boredom. The gameplay should be the reward in itself but in mmos it just isnt.
All of this is deliberately set up to keep the player paying and playing with the vague promise that things will get better later on in the game when they reach the mythical end game content......which oddly enough isnt any better than what you would get in the multiplayer aspect of a single player game anyway.
Unfortunately it has now become acceptable to charge a monthly fee for an mmo. In most of them the players are just playing a very basic and badly made co-op game with the features of a chat room added. No wonder there are so many piss poor mmos being made lately. The games companies have an open opportunity to rip people off and rake in shit loads of money so they are taking that opportunity. In fact it has even become acceptable to release games that are nowhere near being complete and then get the players to pay for the privelege of play testing them while the games companies spend the following years finsihing them.
Guildwars got it right by not charging a monthly fee and oddly enough their product was better than most others on the market. I really hope other games companies follow their example but sadly we all know that it isnt going to happen. Of course roughly £10 a month is not a lot of money to pay so many people dont mind this extra fee and again the games companies know that people think this way. They know that lots of people really enjoy the prospect of playing a game online as it feels more involving when other people are involved.......even when the game itself is limited and poor.......so for this reason they will continue to charge a monthly fee even though it clearly is not deserved.
BTW, I ended up going back to UO for awhile! I miss that game and what it used to be to me... oh well!
Can you give examples of how a MMO evolves? I'll pick a game that you played and you tell me how it evolved in the month of January. How did WAR evolve in January? I don't think MMO's evolve, because the quests you do will still be there after you're gone. The quests don't actually change the game world. PvP never amounts to anything. So really, nothing ever revolves. So it's not true that MMO's are ever-evolving. If they were, I wouldn't have created this thread. Instead I'd be playing that game.
Anyhow, I think I've addressed every response a person could possibly bring up. So in conclusion, I still don't think MMO's offer anything unique that other games don't offer for free, that justifies their monthly fee. Does that mean I'll never play a MMO again? No it doesn't. When I see a MMORPG that's interesting to me, I'll subscribe and play it, knowing that the monthly fee isn't justified comparitively, because $15/mo isn't much for entertainment. So in the end, the only way to determine if a game is worth the money is to ask yourself if it offers something more than what's already available for free and if you have the money to pay it. For me, no game out there is worth the money, except maybe EvE, but I don't like EvE. I think SW:ToR will be worth my money and I plan to play it. Mainly because I'm a Star Wars fanatic and will play anything where I can be a Jedi.
So I guess it's like another person said for me. I'll play a game when I see an IP I like being turned into a MMORPG or when I see a combination of features I like that aren't offered anywhere else.
If you factor in the costs to create, maintain and provide a service, it is perfectly reasonable for a $15.00 fee per month. As far as trying to use logic for why people would play one game or another and if the cost is worth it, not factoring in the previous costs I mention, it is pointless because people play a game for enjoyment, fun. Logic and emotion do not mix well.
You (OP) mentioned that eve is worth it for the monthly fee. Personally I do not think so. I spend less than I do on single players games for a longer time. I remember being in a good group camping out lguk in EQ for hours on end. I had a blast. It was very fun, killing waves of mobs and bosses and getting drops while chatting with my group. Some people call that a grind, I call it fun. That is why I played EQ for several years and other games like daoc. Interacting with hundreds of players in a relic raid, trying to survive and kill off enemies was exhilarating.
I would pay more for a game if it could hold my attention as long as EQ and daoc did. As it is, it is only 50 cents a day or less. Heck, I went the other weekend with a friend to play miniature golf for a few hours and it cost me $17.00. I spend even more going to a baseball game.
Enjoyment is subjective and only each person can say whether the cost is worth it. $15.00 a month? Hah, thats nothing for what I get in return. And if you think about it logically, that isn't much more than the costs that are put into and used to maintain it.
First off you sound like a Jaded ex MMO player. Second. I pay to play an MMO because I enjoy it and it is worth my entertainment dollars. Just like going out to a movie or going to the bar with your friends.
The games you talked about are not free, they cost 49.99 to buy and how long do you play them? till you beat them and maybe a few times afterwards and some how you think that is better then a month fee for a game that I play everyday for a month?
I do not understand yoru logic because it has know logic.
Game companies charge a month fee to make a profit, just like every other company on the face of the earth wants to make a profit. They do not do it to rip off hte players, they do it to make money and be able to support the game.
You have ever right to your opinion but your post makes it sound like any one willing to pay a monthy fee to play an MMORPG is stupid and is getting ripped off. Which is not the case.
I am happy to pay the small monthy fee for the fact that the game I am playing currently keeps me entertained and I feel that $15 a month is a fair fee for the entertainment value I personally get out of the game.
Sooner or Later
Ill tell you that I would rather pay $15 /month then $100 every weekend going out to the bars. An MMO can save you $385 or at least for me(Wife and me). On occasion I have to go out I can't just sit here and play, but I still pay.
FUN ... simple.
It is ILLOGICAL to assume what you know all other people like.
It is FUN for many to raid the same content again and again because people want to hack-n-slash and feel powerful. Very logical to me.
If it is not fun TO THEM, people won't pay $15 for it. The logic is simple.
Unfortunately the requirement has become simplified to adding end game content.
Either Developers are lazy and choose to target one area or they have no clue.If you want a game to keep growing and keep the interest for new players ,then you need to re work ALL the game,every last inch not just end game.If anyone has paid attention over the years ,they would have noticed that pretty much 99% of the gamersd go back and play the game again under a different class/job/role.So a developer should take that money and keep the ENTIRE subscription base happy ,NOT just the end game fanatics.
Adding new classes to a game keeps intrigue and adding in some new abilities and spells also does the trick.I expect a developer to also add fresh new content and add more to the database of other content such as craftings/boss fights/NM's.
Personally i have not liked the way developers add new content with our sub money,they ALL do it exactly the same,by adding some new continent in some far away warp zone.That ruins the immersion of the game with new players and totally separates thew entire player base,just a brutal approach IMO.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I snipped your post for organization purposes, but I read the whole thing and it was worth it. No offense to others on this forum, but neonwire hit the nail on the head. He explained exactly the train of thought that lead me to creating this thread. There's really nothing a person can say to refute what he said, because it's true. Those choosing to play MMO's are doing so for addictive reasons, or for some other non-game related reason.
Neonwire,
As soon as I got to the point where I said I won't level up another character (ie. job on the treadmill), I realized that there isn't anything else to do. Any gameplay actually worth being apart of doesn't exist in a MMO or is already present in a free MMO, such as Guild Wars, as you mentioned. In fact, guild wars campaigns actually evolve as you complete the story, which is nice. It's still not up to par with single player games, but it's as close as it comes right now. The fact that Guild Wars offers a compelling story, strategic gameplay, arena pvp, and the ability to do this with others all for free makes the game worth the initial investment and is a direct slap in the face for anyone trying to justify a monthly fee for other MMO's.
The good thing about this though, is that people don't have to justify anything to me, to you, or to anyone. People will instead choose to point this out, give a lame excuse why they are sheep, and continue clicking their way through life, wasting the precious short life they have. Luckily for me, this addiction makes competition less fierce for jobs in the real world, as I have extra time to be ambitious, now that I'm not letting "leveling" consume my life.
I happily pay monthly fees because I want an evolving game. Actually, I coughed up $199 for the LoTRO Lifetime deal but I'd been paying monthly fees on other games for years before LOTRO.
I pay because I want a world that is ever changing. A game that has NO END in sight. I suppose I could play free games but I want new content added every 2 or 3 months and the P2P games are better at that. And I want breathtaking graphics and rich ambient sounds and the F2P just don't cut it- for me anyways!
And $15 a month is nothing! It gives me @ 100 hours of enjoyment a month. I pay $60 a month to use my cell phone for 10 minutes per month LOL! I pay $60 a month for Direct TV to watch 3 TV shows a week- so 10 hours of fun a month for $60!!
Lori
I found CoX fun to play and not a grind for years. It was worth the fee. It didn't click for everyone but it really did click for a small group of people.
So it could be that the game is just actually fun.
What about the IP? What about the combination of everything you listed on there? It's also the fact that MMOs offer a "world" that is never offline ( besides updates, crashes, etc) in which the player can just jump in. No single player game can offer that. It basically means, if you want to play the game, you HAVE to play online; single players give you a choice. Most MMO worlds are also seemingly large compared to multiplayer modes of single player games where it's usually based on "joining a server" or a "room" or something along those lines. Note that I said seemingly, because most MMOs are basically an illusion of large worlds, even though most of the action takes places in intances (not all games though mind you), and player hubs are just large chat rooms basically. But we live in a world of illusions and people are happier when things seem "tied together" when they're actually not.
At first I was going to disagree with what you said but once I had read all of it I actually totally agree. Its all about the illusion that these mmos create. But then the answer to the question "Is an mmo worth paying a monthly fee for?" clearly becomes a great big NO. The games companies are just tricking the player into thinking they are getting something more for their money when in fact all the developers are really doing is sacrificing quality for quantity. However these developers know that they can get away with this because the players occupy each other and help to distract each other from the low quality of the games.
Make a basic low quality single player game. Put it on a server. Let multiple people play it at the same time. Add a chat channel. Ta da! You have an mmo and a monthly income.
Well, I agree with you on the older MMORPG's. MMORPG's back then offered a new experience not found in the world really yet, so charging a fee for that experience made more sense. Fast forward to the copies of those early games and you end up asking yourself why you keep paying a fee. What justifies that fee, other than fun.
But to each their own I guess. I can't argue with fun, because fun is subjective and I am no one to tell a person how they can or can't have fun. Although I admit to being perplexed at how a person can have fun in these low quality worlds developers are pushing out these days. When I say low quality, I'm talking about the quality of gameplay and content, not the quality of their hardware or coding skills.
To each their own. I'd rather spend $100 per weekend and have face to face interaction with real people, and enjoy real drinks, and real music, and then real sex afterwards, than to have impersonal interaction with teenagers over the internet, drink internet booze, listen to the same game music over and over, and cyber with sick men playing female toons (plus wife would kill me).
Back when MMO's were played by predominately adult mature gamers, I agreed with you on this. Now that I'm several times more likely to run into a teenager, young adult, or a gamer who takes the game too seriously, I'm left only with what the game itself offers, which is a low quality product compared to other forms of entertainment.
To me, a game that is fun and engaging, making me come back day after day is what i want. The fee in my eyes is to pay for a support team that fixes issues as they come up, keep the hampsters running and interacting with their client base in order to get good feedback so they can make the game better.
That would be worth the fee every month to me. I hate quests in MMORPG's, because their more like chores and you have to do those chores over and over again every time you create a new character. As new updates and expansions come out, they're usually geared for higher level players and not for the rerollers, new players, or disenchanted players looking to start over. Repeating content is never fun, especially when it's dull for anyone with a brain. Now if developers made rerolling fun and leveling up different from the last time you did it, then maybe I'd think the game is worth subbing to. That may be why I feel sandbox games are worth subbing to, because you aren't lead by the hand everywhere and you are more free to explore, build player cities, and actually build a second life in the game.