Darkfall: City Building (Article)

Paragus1 · March 2009

I have just published a new article that details my experiences with city building in the game so far. Hopefully it will show some insight into a part of the game not many players will get to see.

You can find it HERE.

Thanks.

asdar · March 2009

Another great article Paragus.

I'm not for holes everywhere around a city, but I kind of like that each city has a couple.

I always hate bashing on doors. A small area where you can put heavy defenses seems to promote heated battles.

atziluth · March 2009

Very good article and very well balanced between positives and negatives.

I personally do not like the city building system in DF. While I think it would be acceptible to limit where cities can be built, there should be more freedom over what is available to be built and how it is placed. The lack of gates and guard towers is very disconcerting considering the nature of the game.

A simple grid system would allow more freedom for creativity and a more satisfying experience to me. I still do not like the universal bank system, while it is convenient, it also supresses more realistic trade between cities that have special resources. What is the inherent risk of turning a profit between towns if you can just put the rare materials in one bank and access them 1/2 way around the world at another?

These are just my personal views and concerns about the game. TY for sharing aspects of city building I had heard about, but did not know the specific mechanics/costs.

TalRasha · March 2009

Nice article Paragus.

Could you also post some screenshots of the total hamlet? I would like to see the holes in the walls that you mentioned, if they really are a concern, or did you decide to not place the walls afterall?

DarthRaiden · March 2009

Informative , well written, thanks OP.

Mrbloodworth · March 2009

Nice article. However, what can you do with the housing? other than increasing the max number of binds to the stone. Can you decorate, set up venders, look the door, use it as storage, craft what function, other than increasing a set of numbers...can you do with them?

It reads like a less complete version of shadowbane.

steven1966 · March 2009

Q. How to build a city?

A. Find mobs that are bugged, and have your guild farm them for 24hrs

Only problem is that most of the guilds have already claimed all the spots within the first 2 days.

robertb · March 2009

Originally posted by steven1966

Q. How to build a city?
A. Find mobs that are bugged, and have your guild farm them for 24hrs
Only problem is that most of the guilds have already claimed all the spots within the first 2 days.

Sadly, this appears to have been the case for at least a few clans.

However, there are now many clans starting cities and hamlets that didn't actually cheat.

(A good thing about the game is that any initial advantages gained by certain unscrupulous players can, indeed, be eventually overcome.)

Paragus1 · March 2009

Originally posted by steven1966

Q. How to build a city?
A. Find mobs that are bugged, and have your guild farm them for 24hrs
Only problem is that most of the guilds have already claimed all the spots within the first 2 days.

I know that a lot of guilds milked that the first day. The preferred method for us was to get everyone together and some some repeatable quests to kill mobs. There is a quest as an example, that tells you to kill 10 of a certain mob in an hour, but rewards you with extra for every kill past 10. So you can get upwards of 300-400 gold alone from the reward, and if you can get 8 people to all do it together, that's almost 3000 gold total in an hour from the reward alone. This doesn;t count whatever you loot. There are plenty of legit ways to farm money, but there are definitely those who abused an early issue.

Paragus1 · March 2009

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Nice article. However, what can you do with the housing? other than increasing the max number of binds to the stone. Can you decorate, set up venders, look the door, use it as storage, craft what function, other than increasing a set of numbers...can you do with them?

It reads like a less complete version of shadowbane.

I'm not entirely sure. If I had to go out on a limb at this point, I would say probably not since the place seemed to be decorated already. It wasn't my city that I used for the article in terms of the housing, so I don't have first hand experience.

EDIT: I would assume the general store is where the crafting related functions would be, but neither of us have one built yet.

xzyax · March 2009

Originally posted by Paragus1

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Nice article. However, what can you do with the housing? other than increasing the max number of binds to the stone. Can you decorate, set up venders, look the door, use it as storage, craft what function, other than increasing a set of numbers...can you do with them?

It reads like a less complete version of shadowbane.

I'm not entirely sure. If I had to go out on a limb at this point, I would say probably not since the place seemed to be decorated already. It wasn't my city that I used for the article in terms of the housing, so I don't have first hand experience.

EDIT: I would assume the general store is where the crafting related functions would be, but neither of us have one built yet.

You mentioned choosing to build the wall pieces for your hamlet fairly early in the build -tree process.

Has the build order of the walls been changed since Beta?

I remember seeing quite a few clans upset about not being able to build up their defenses with walls and towers until they were quite far into the build-tree.

If that has indeed changed that would be a step in the right direction from Aventurine. In my opinion, the whole forced build order is out of whack for a "sandbox" MMO.

If they wanted to do some sort of compromise they could make it so that if you built the different buildings possible for your build site in the "preferred" order that it would be at a reduced module cost. However, if you wanted to build something "out of sequence" then you would still have that option but at a higher module cost.

Basically anything they can do to improve the "sandbox" feel of the city building process would be a good thing in my opinion. As it is it's very "UNsandboxy" with the pre-determined sites, pre-determined build order, and pre-determined location of the building.

The limited building sites part I could live with (As I do recognize that it is a benefit for the PvP aspect of the game); if they would just relax on the rest of the restrictions after that.

Paragus1 · March 2009

Originally posted by xzyax

You mentioned choosing to build the wall pieces for your hamlet fairly early in the build -tree process.
Has the build order of the walls been changed since Beta?
I remember seeing quite a few clans upset about not being able to build up their defenses with walls and towers until they were quite far into the build-tree.

If that has indeed changed that would be a step in the right direction from Aventurine. In my opinion, the whole forced build order is out of whack for a "sandbox" MMO.
If they wanted to do some sort of compromise they could make it so that if you built the different buildings possible for your build site in the "preferred" order that it would be at a reduced module cost. However, if you wanted to build something "out of sequence" then you would still have that option but at a higher module cost.

Basically anything they can do to improve the "sandbox" feel of the city building process would be a good thing in my opinion. As it is it's very "UNsandboxy" with the pre-determined sites, pre-determined build order, and pre-determined location of the building.
The limited building sites part I could live with (As I do recognize that it is a benefit for the PvP aspect of the game); if they would just relax on the rest of the restrictions after that.

I can't really compare the city building in release to the beta versions because I never had a chance to get far enough in beta to see it before launch. What I can tell you is that the build order we are doing at the moment started with the bank (mandatory), then all 13 wall segments. From what I have seen so far, we don't seem to have an option for any kind of towers. I'm thinking maybe those are reserved for only people who have cities and not hamlets. Other than that, it appears as if we we are free to build any of the things mentioned in the article in any order we want. We just went with walls first because of how we decided to prioritize.

xzyax · March 2009

Originally posted by Paragus1

Originally posted by xzyax

You mentioned choosing to build the wall pieces for your hamlet fairly early in the build -tree process.
Has the build order of the walls been changed since Beta?
I remember seeing quite a few clans upset about not being able to build up their defenses with walls and towers until they were quite far into the build-tree.

If that has indeed changed that would be a step in the right direction from Aventurine. In my opinion, the whole forced build order is out of whack for a "sandbox" MMO.
If they wanted to do some sort of compromise they could make it so that if you built the different buildings possible for your build site in the "preferred" order that it would be at a reduced module cost. However, if you wanted to build something "out of sequence" then you would still have that option but at a higher module cost.

Basically anything they can do to improve the "sandbox" feel of the city building process would be a good thing in my opinion. As it is it's very "UNsandboxy" with the pre-determined sites, pre-determined build order, and pre-determined location of the building.
The limited building sites part I could live with (As I do recognize that it is a benefit for the PvP aspect of the game); if they would just relax on the rest of the restrictions after that.

I can't really compare the city building in release to the beta versions because I never had a chance to get far enough in beta to see it before launch. What I can tell you is that the build order we are doing at the moment started with the bank (mandatory), then all 13 wall segments. From what I have seen so far, we don't seem to have an option for any kind of towers. I'm thinking maybe those are reserved for only people who have cities and not hamlets. Other than that, it appears as if we we are free to build any of the things mentioned in the article in any order we want. We just went with walls first because of how we decided to prioritize.

Thanks for the info Paragus

That sounds quite a bit better than what I had heard before. I'm glad to see that part at least is much more free-form.

Having to build the bank first is something that people can live with, as it helps in the transport time for modules anyway... so that is probably something almost everyone would choose to build first anyway. It would still be nice if they left it as an option... but again, not something worth arguing about.

You may be right on the towers only being an option for cities and not with hamlets. It might also be that you will get the option once you build some pre-requisite building(s) (perhaps siege workshop?).

I thought I had read in another article (can't remember if it was pre-Release or not though) about them having the option for a Gate to effectively "wall-off" their city. But, perhaps that was a city again, and not a hamlet. Or, it may have been something from Beta that didn't make it to Release yet.

Anyway, good luck on your hamlet, it sounds like you'll be busy for awhile.

Paragus1 · March 2009

Originally posted by xzyax

Originally posted by Paragus1

Originally posted by xzyax

You mentioned choosing to build the wall pieces for your hamlet fairly early in the build -tree process.
Has the build order of the walls been changed since Beta?
I remember seeing quite a few clans upset about not being able to build up their defenses with walls and towers until they were quite far into the build-tree.

If that has indeed changed that would be a step in the right direction from Aventurine. In my opinion, the whole forced build order is out of whack for a "sandbox" MMO.
If they wanted to do some sort of compromise they could make it so that if you built the different buildings possible for your build site in the "preferred" order that it would be at a reduced module cost. However, if you wanted to build something "out of sequence" then you would still have that option but at a higher module cost.

Basically anything they can do to improve the "sandbox" feel of the city building process would be a good thing in my opinion. As it is it's very "UNsandboxy" with the pre-determined sites, pre-determined build order, and pre-determined location of the building.
The limited building sites part I could live with (As I do recognize that it is a benefit for the PvP aspect of the game); if they would just relax on the rest of the restrictions after that.

I can't really compare the city building in release to the beta versions because I never had a chance to get far enough in beta to see it before launch. What I can tell you is that the build order we are doing at the moment started with the bank (mandatory), then all 13 wall segments. From what I have seen so far, we don't seem to have an option for any kind of towers. I'm thinking maybe those are reserved for only people who have cities and not hamlets. Other than that, it appears as if we we are free to build any of the things mentioned in the article in any order we want. We just went with walls first because of how we decided to prioritize.

Thanks for the info Paragus

That sounds quite a bit better than what I had heard before. I'm glad to see that part at least is much more free-form.

Having to build the bank first is something that people can live with, as it helps in the transport time for modules anyway... so that is probably something almost everyone would choose to build first anyway. It would still be nice if they left it as an option... but again, not something worth arguing about.

You may be right on the towers only being an option for cities and not with hamlets. It might also be that you will get the option once you build some pre-requisite building(s) (perhaps siege workshop?).

I thought I had read in another article (can't remember if it was pre-Release or not though) about them having the option for a Gate to effectively "wall-off" their city. But, perhaps that was a city again, and not a hamlet. Or, it may have been something from Beta that didn't make it to Release yet.

Anyway, good luck on your hamlet, it sounds like you'll be busy for awhile.

The main issue we are struggling with now is whether or not we are going to keep pressing forward aggressively on building it if we plan to transfer to NA servers. There is also the issue of whether or not that server transfers will allow you to bring items or if it is a naked transfer. We as a guild are trying to decide how to approach the entire situation.

javac · March 2009

another great article. kudos.

javac · March 2009

i think not having full walls around hamlets is fine but they should have access to other defensive options, like guard towers, or NPC guards/archers.

DF cities/hamlets require a lot of effort to build; they should be hard to take over.

Mr_Hand · March 2009

Originally posted by Paragus1

I have just published a new article that details my experiences with city building in the game so far. Hopefully it will show some insight into a part of the game not many players will get to see.
You can find it HERE.
Thanks.

Thank you for your review. But, were you expecting hamlets or Clanstones to actually be of any value as a private community..?

We already know that there are no swinging doors in any of the building within cities or PvE buildings during beta... and when people started questinging Aventurine on this, the topics were all locked and we were told these are "features" that were currently "turned off" during beta.

I believe, (like all of Tasos's lies), is that doors/gates don't work and there is no in-game code for gates or doors. Aventurine is hoping to figure it out before too much mass hystaria brews up. Just like they are trying to do with higher skill tree magery.

I highly doubt, with all the "other" stuff Aventurine has on their plate, that you will see gates or doors within a few months... if ever. Most all beta testers know how Aventurine operates when it comes to core mechanics within their code and it's the main reason why people have fled the community.

Aventurien is just not capable of implamenting all the stuff they lied about within time to compete with the many other MMORPG's comming out within just a few short months. Thus Darkfall = Failure ..!

Vince_G · March 2009

Originally posted by Mr_Hand

Originally posted by Paragus1

I have just published a new article that details my experiences with city building in the game so far. Hopefully it will show some insight into a part of the game not many players will get to see.
You can find it HERE.
Thanks.

Thank you for your review. But, were you expecting hamlets or Clanstones to actually be of any value as a private community..?

We already know that there are no swinging doors in any of the building within cities or PvE buildings during beta... and when people started questinging Aventurine on this, the topics were all locked and we were told these are "features" that were currently "turned off" during beta.

I believe, (like all of Tasos's lies), is that doors/gates don't work and there is no in-game code for gates or doors. Aventurine is hoping to figure it out before too much mass hystaria brews up. Just like they are trying to do with higher skill tree magery.

I highly doubt, with all the "other" stuff Aventurine has on their plate, that you will see gates or doors within a few months... if ever. Most all beta testers know how Aventurine operates when it comes to core mechanics within their code and it's the main reason why people have fled the community.

Aventurien is just not capable of implamenting all the stuff they lied about within time to compete with the many other MMORPG's comming out within just a few short months. Thus Darkfall = Failure ..!

Thank you for your highly thought out colorful response since somehow you seem to know the inner workings of Aventurine. You have inspired me to quit my guild and uninstall the game. Hmm actually I have a better Idea from me and the few thousand people ingame having the mmo time of our lives. learn to type .

Benthon · March 2009

Originally posted by Vince_G

Thank you for your highly thought out colorful response since somehow you seem to know the inner workings of Aventurine. You have inspired me to quit my guild and uninstall the game. Hmm actually I have a better Idea from me and the few thousand people ingame having the mmo time of our lives. learn to type .

I think your feelings for Darkfall can be described with one word:

Infatuation

Vince_G · March 2009

Excellent job, and a nice long word too. You spelled everything correct I'll have to tell everyone in game having fun that we all suffer from "Darkfall Infatuation".

Benthon · March 2009

I see your banana and raise you a .

Thanks for spreading the message.

Einstein-DF · March 2009

Good stuff over here Paragus, as usual.

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Darkfall: City Building (Article)

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