and how does that make the AI smart? hell throw a random path x time programming in there and the ai is no smarter, just changes path at random times....and yes in LOTRO i seen recently, humanoid npcs will run back to their pack if they can so others will join the attack
i agree, but i can not see, not matter how much time passes, this game ever filling 2 servers, in fact i dont think it will ever open a 2nd.
That is because you are not objective. You have never been objective. You have posted negative stuff about Darkfall constantly and you mostly focus on the trivial when you are doing that.
Anyone looking at Darkfall objectively can see that it's a no brainer they will open a second server. When they open that one, then you'll come back and say "Ok, they have two now, but I don't see them opening more than 10 servers", to give yourself more error room next time. The sheer amount of interest in this game, and the amounts still waiting to purchase and play should have been your first clues.
But you choose to ignore that simply because you just "can not see" it. Hopefully after they open their second server, you'll at least take one finger out of your ear, so some rational message can get through to you.
i agree, but i can not see, not matter how much time passes, this game ever filling 2 servers, in fact i dont think it will ever open a 2nd.
That is because you are not objective. You have never been objective. You have posted negative stuff about Darkfall constantly and you mostly focus on the trivial when you are doing that.
Anyone looking at Darkfall objectively can see that it's a no brainer they will open a second server. When they open that one, then you'll come back and say "Ok, they have two now, but I don't see them opening more than 10 servers", to give yourself more error room next time. The sheer amount of interest in this game, and the amounts still waiting to purchase and play should have been your first clues.
But you choose to ignore that simply because you just "can not see" it. Hopefully after they open their second server, you'll at least take one finger out of your ear, so some rational message can get through to you.
point me to one, other than the quality of graphics, where i have been negative about the GAME. Go ahead. Fine i dont like the graphical style of the avatars...but i almost never comment that the game SUCKS. I have had objective opinions, and there are things i like and dislike about the game, but never have i flat out dismissed the game. Aventurine....yes...its a turd company, but the concept and game could be great.
So last night i'm playing WoW with my wife and we were in an instance and i rush up to this mob when all of a sudden out of nowhere it roots me runs away and starts to cast spells at me
a little later in that same instance i am attacking a mob and suddenly it calls for help and nest thing i know 3 more mobs come rushing to its aid
then i was shocked when i was tying to kill a boss mob and boom the "helper mobs" stop attacking me and start to heal the boss
i was shocked it seems the WoW devs played darkfall and stole all the advanced AI and quietly snuck it into their game
i know i'll be told stfu and go back to wow and i'm okay with that see i have a choice play games i like better and toss off or play wow and get to sleep with my wife
well this again is not smart programming. What if say a goblin with a spear threw spears at you...then when got close enough to attack with its sword, did so, after a few seconds, it throws a net on you, runs back out of range, turns and starts lobbing spears at you again. when you broke out of your netting, you charge it again, the goblin throws spears at you until you are in close enough, then it switches swords. When it's health gets low, it runs back to where other goblins are hanging out in a ruins, so you better catch it before 3 more goblins are on you!
That AI seems a bit smarter....and its from a game which came out a year or 2 before DFO....and i was playing it 2 days ago. It's called LOTRO.
I use this as an example cause it's the most recent pve game i played.
and how does that make the AI smart? hell throw a random path x time programming in there and the ai is no smarter, just changes path at random times....and yes in LOTRO i seen recently, humanoid npcs will run back to their pack if they can so others will join the attack
I didnt comment on it being smart, I was just comparing the way they retreat. It seemed more fun to me to not have them take a straight path away. Some run back a bit and try to range you then back off more when you get close again.
It is just different, I dont care if its "Smarter" or not, it felt very different compared to what I am use to from other games and that made it fun.
well this again is not smart programming. What if say a goblin with a spear threw spears at you...then when got close enough to attack with its sword, did so, after a few seconds, it throws a net on you, runs back out of range, turns and starts lobbing spears at you again. when you broke out of your netting, you charge it again, the goblin throws spears at you until you are in close enough, then it switches swords. When it's health gets low, it runs back to where other goblins are hanging out in a ruins, so you better catch it before 3 more goblins are on you!
That AI seems a bit smarter....and its from a game which came out a year or 2 before DFO....and i was playing it 2 days ago. It's called LOTRO.
I use this as an example cause it's the most recent pve game i played.
The goblins act pretty much as you described, other than throwing nets. Instead of lobing spears, they use arrows.
When they get close they use either axes, short sword and shirld or clubs, depending on which type of goblin it is.
Meanwhile other Goblins stand at range and pepper you with arrows,or in the case of the Shamans, spells.
well this again is not smart programming. What if say a goblin with a spear threw spears at you...then when got close enough to attack with its sword, did so, after a few seconds, it throws a net on you, runs back out of range, turns and starts lobbing spears at you again. when you broke out of your netting, you charge it again, the goblin throws spears at you until you are in close enough, then it switches swords. When it's health gets low, it runs back to where other goblins are hanging out in a ruins, so you better catch it before 3 more goblins are on you!
That AI seems a bit smarter....and its from a game which came out a year or 2 before DFO....and i was playing it 2 days ago. It's called LOTRO.
I use this as an example cause it's the most recent pve game i played.
The goblins act pretty much as you described, other than throwing nets. Instead of lobing spears, they use arrows.
When they get close they use either axes, short sword and shirld or clubs, depending on which type of goblin it is.
Meanwhile other Goblins stand at range and pepper you with arrows,or in the case of the Shamans, spells.
...
Exactly, so it's AI is really no more advanced, other than the not running in straight lines. Granted it is nice to have decent AI, as it appears to be the case with both DFO and LOTRO (and other games). Makes PVE more challenging, which is always a bonus.
So last night i'm playing WoW with my wife and we were in an instance and i rush up to this mob when all of a sudden out of nowhere it roots me runs away and starts to cast spells at me
a little later in that same instance i am attacking a mob and suddenly it calls for help and nest thing i know 3 more mobs come rushing to its aid
then i was shocked when i was tying to kill a boss mob and boom the "helper mobs" stop attacking me and start to heal the boss i was shocked it seems the WoW devs played darkfall and stole all the advanced AI and quietly snuck it into their game
i know i'll be told stfu and go back to wow and i'm okay with that see i have a choice play games i like better and toss off or play wow and get to sleep with my wife so at least till i have another exwife wow it is
So last night i'm playing WoW with my wife and we were in an instance and i rush up to this mob when all of a sudden out of nowhere it roots me runs away and starts to cast spells at me
a little later in that same instance i am attacking a mob and suddenly it calls for help and nest thing i know 3 more mobs come rushing to its aid
then i was shocked when i was tying to kill a boss mob and boom the "helper mobs" stop attacking me and start to heal the boss i was shocked it seems the WoW devs played darkfall and stole all the advanced AI and quietly snuck it into their game
i know i'll be told stfu and go back to wow and i'm okay with that see i have a choice play games i like better and toss off or play wow and get to sleep with my wife so at least till i have another exwife wow it is
Does the Ai strife left and right while shooting at you? Does the AI try to Kite you?, Does the AI circle you around and zigzag you while its buddys are side stepping and shooting arrows or spells? I dont think so. In fact I dont think its possible to miss a mob in WoW it merely says Evaded over there head.
So last night i'm playing WoW with my wife and we were in an instance and i rush up to this mob when all of a sudden out of nowhere it roots me runs away and starts to cast spells at me
a little later in that same instance i am attacking a mob and suddenly it calls for help and nest thing i know 3 more mobs come rushing to its aid
then i was shocked when i was tying to kill a boss mob and boom the "helper mobs" stop attacking me and start to heal the boss i was shocked it seems the WoW devs played darkfall and stole all the advanced AI and quietly snuck it into their game
i know i'll be told stfu and go back to wow and i'm okay with that see i have a choice play games i like better and toss off or play wow and get to sleep with my wife so at least till i have another exwife wow it is
Does the Ai strife left and right while shooting at you? Does the AI try to Kite you?, Does the AI circle you around and zigzag you while its buddys are side stepping and shooting arrows or spells? I dont think so. In fact I dont think its possible to miss a mob in WoW it merely says Evaded over there head.
game mechanics =/= Smart AI. Course it wont physically dodge in a non FPS game, there is no point. But like i stated, just because it zig zags does not make it any smarter, that's just randomized pathing.
So last night i'm playing WoW with my wife and we were in an instance and i rush up to this mob when all of a sudden out of nowhere it roots me runs away and starts to cast spells at me
a little later in that same instance i am attacking a mob and suddenly it calls for help and nest thing i know 3 more mobs come rushing to its aid
then i was shocked when i was tying to kill a boss mob and boom the "helper mobs" stop attacking me and start to heal the boss i was shocked it seems the WoW devs played darkfall and stole all the advanced AI and quietly snuck it into their game
i know i'll be told stfu and go back to wow and i'm okay with that see i have a choice play games i like better and toss off or play wow and get to sleep with my wife so at least till i have another exwife wow it is
Does the Ai strife left and right while shooting at you? Does the AI try to Kite you?, Does the AI circle you around and zigzag you while its buddys are side stepping and shooting arrows or spells? I dont think so. In fact I dont think its possible to miss a mob in WoW it merely says Evaded over there head.
just to correct you from what i see you can miss get dodged be blocked and parried mobs mobs from what i gather and say "evaded" when they cant hit you back and since they dont want you to be able to kill mobs that dont fight back they evade
also if i recall the mobs in ddo kite you if they are not "melee" mobs
So last night i'm playing WoW with my wife and we were in an instance and i rush up to this mob when all of a sudden out of nowhere it roots me runs away and starts to cast spells at me
a little later in that same instance i am attacking a mob and suddenly it calls for help and nest thing i know 3 more mobs come rushing to its aid
then i was shocked when i was tying to kill a boss mob and boom the "helper mobs" stop attacking me and start to heal the boss i was shocked it seems the WoW devs played darkfall and stole all the advanced AI and quietly snuck it into their game
i know i'll be told stfu and go back to wow and i'm okay with that see i have a choice play games i like better and toss off or play wow and get to sleep with my wife so at least till i have another exwife wow it is
Does the Ai strife left and right while shooting at you? Does the AI try to Kite you?, Does the AI circle you around and zigzag you while its buddys are side stepping and shooting arrows or spells? I dont think so. In fact I dont think its possible to miss a mob in WoW it merely says Evaded over there head.
Oh leave em alone ......Cant you see he is busy with the wife now..................../chuckles....
not much of a forum troll but really... this game has been in production for 10 years or so with 1/10 of the mmos you guys are comparing here, its like comparing a minicooper with a monster truck, it might be fun.. maybe, theres no saying it cant be but to offer the things the devs are saying.. well its just hilarious how some people can believe them and as for the graphics... well reminds me a bit of Hexxen. If this game is not vaporware like Ive always called it (bit like duke nukem forever xcept here nobody gives a shit bout the IP) then it will be a poorly made low content game. But hey some people like those kinda games, look at mount and blade ex.
As for us rest, well we basicly float with the mainstream always finding something to whine and moan about
*as a side note how can one expect that with that tight budget to produce what many like to call a dream game, maybe it could be fun, but really a dream game? 10mil might sound much but thats only bout 1mil a year for production and should they succeed itl probably be the most well invested money of all time*
bad combat and retardedly bad AI (sorry fanbots,the AI in this game is dreadful)
care to elaborate on why you think the AI is bad? because it cuts and runs at low health? i don't know anyone can say DF NPC AI is bad with a straight face when the AI every other MMO is essentially "auto-attack until dead" with zero variation between mob types.
as for bad combat, well that's just too subjective. i don't think i could ever go back to any MMO with auto-targeted, auto-attacking combat again.
Yes,ill elaborate. The AI basically runs round in circles or zigzags at random intervals,which has no real tactic or reasoning. a lot of fanbois are declaring this to be advanced AI,but it really isnt.As for the cut and run at low health thing,this is in practically every MMO.Ive never played a game where I could auto attack stuff to death and mobs have no variation,but id be interested to know which games these are.
Heres an example,I was fighting these hawkmen at a large nesting area.I attacked one from range and it ran over to me to fight. It then ran around in a zigzag fashion in front of me,and then tore off in a direction toward some tents.It then ran back,cast a shield,and then ran off again back to its spawn point where it then proceeded to ignore me,even though i was stood in the same place. I fought 2 at once and barely took damage because they were just running around in a random pattern,not trying to attack,not trying to flee,just running.
Right near the centre of the map theres these kind of giant werewolves with 4 arms.I ran past one and got into its aggro range,and it started chasing me.It ran directly behind me for a way,then stopped and ran in a sort of circle.It then turned to face me,paused and then reset and ran back to its starter position.
The goblins do the same thing;perhaps use a few ranged attacks and then begin running in random zigzags,stop,shoot another arrow,zig zag.At times theyll engage in melee,and after a few hits,run a few feet from you,run in a circle and then run back.Thats basically it.
The aggro range is really long so stuff ends up attacking you from miles off.
As for the combat,its bad because its so totally unconnected.Its basically a game of swinging your weapon in one of 2 directions with no real consequence.If you miss,then you dont lose any momentum and you can just swing again.Theres very little impact on blows bar a red blood splatter and its hard to tell if someones actually hitting you unless you keep an eye on your healthbar.This is particularly noticable on blocking. Sprinting in combat with the standard control set up means that if you accidently touch your scroll wheel your hotbar will scroll up which is really annoying.
Casting isnt too bad,but the weapon switching bug and clunkiness makes it really akward.The way you have to press the hotkey,wait for it to load into the action slot and then activate it with left click makes it flow a lot less smooth than it should.
Archery is ok,but its very jittery and the bad animations on mobs and other players doesnt help with your aim.again,the weapon switch bugging out really fuggs it up.
The animations are stiff and jerky and blocking just seems utterly broken.Dodging in and out of combat isnt really very valid as everythings very slow,so it becomes hit and miss at best.if you have a sword and shield and your opponent a polearm,then its almost impossible.
The combat is like a slower,jerkier version of age of chivalry except without a decent defense system and having to weapon swap to use ranged skills.
well this again is not smart programming. What if say a goblin with a spear threw spears at you...then when got close enough to attack with its sword, did so, after a few seconds, it throws a net on you, runs back out of range, turns and starts lobbing spears at you again. when you broke out of your netting, you charge it again, the goblin throws spears at you until you are in close enough, then it switches swords. When it's health gets low, it runs back to where other goblins are hanging out in a ruins, so you better catch it before 3 more goblins are on you!
That AI seems a bit smarter....and its from a game which came out a year or 2 before DFO....and i was playing it 2 days ago. It's called LOTRO. I use this as an example cause it's the most recent pve game i played.
What I still cannot figure out, is why in a game that is and has been roundly touted for its Open Realm vs Realm play, that you consistently harp on .. pve mob pathing and behavior. It's like someone playing FFXI and QQing that the PvP stinks.
Darkfall has not once, that I have seen, touted how challenging their mob play was. Was this ever a point where people waiting for the game was wondering would be great? If so, those people were only deluding themselves. Adventurine should just leave the mobs as they are, smart or not, and continue to focus on the PvP Open Realm vs Realm aspects of its game. After all, that's the draw. That's what 90% of the people who signed up want to do. They are not into mob hunting as you seem to be. They would probably just prefer the mobs stay stupid, so they can farm them for mats to build weapons, their armor and their cities.
I really don't know why you want to turn the game into some kind of PvE critical game. Just play the PvP; that's what everyone else is doing. I really don't know why you haven't figured out Adventurine doesn't give two hoots about smart mobs. It's not central to the Darkfall scheme one bit.
And duh.. is it any wonder why the AI in LOTRO is smarter? It's a ... say it with me.. PvE game. Wouldn't be to bring to have dumb AI in a PvE based storygame, now would it? Also, with the money they spent on that IP, the AI had BETTER be smarter than Darkfalls, or I'd be deeply disappointed.
You should stop comparing apples/oranges and then claiming they are supposed to be the same fruit. One is a pvp Realm vs Realm game... one is a PvE raiding dungeon game.
well this again is not smart programming. What if say a goblin with a spear threw spears at you...then when got close enough to attack with its sword, did so, after a few seconds, it throws a net on you, runs back out of range, turns and starts lobbing spears at you again. when you broke out of your netting, you charge it again, the goblin throws spears at you until you are in close enough, then it switches swords. When it's health gets low, it runs back to where other goblins are hanging out in a ruins, so you better catch it before 3 more goblins are on you!
That AI seems a bit smarter....and its from a game which came out a year or 2 before DFO....and i was playing it 2 days ago. It's called LOTRO.
I use this as an example cause it's the most recent pve game i played.
What I still cannot figure out, is why in a game that is and has been roundly touted for its Open Realm vs Realm play, that you consistently harp on .. pve mob pathing and behavior. It's like someone playing FFXI and QQing that the PvP stinks.
Darkfall has not once, that I have seen, touted how challenging their mob play was. Was this ever a point where people waiting for the game was wondering would be great? If so, those people were only deluding themselves. Adventurine should just leave the mobs as they are, smart or not, and continue to focus on the PvP Open Realm vs Realm aspects of its game. After all, that's the draw. That's what 90% of the people who signed up want to do. They are not into mob hunting as you seem to be. They would probably just prefer the mobs stay stupid, so they can farm them for mats to build weapons, their armor and their cities.
I really don't know why you want to turn the game into some kind of PvE critical game. Just play the PvP; that's what everyone else is doing. I really don't know why you haven't figured out Adventurine doesn't give two hoots about smart mobs. It's not central to the Darkfall scheme one bit.
And duh.. is it any wonder why the AI in LOTRO is smarter? It's a ... say it with me.. PvE game. Wouldn't be to bring to have dumb AI in a PvE based storygame, now would it? Also, with the money they spent on that IP, the AI had BETTER be smarter than Darkfalls, or I'd be deeply disappointed.
You should stop comparing apples/oranges and then claiming they are supposed to be the same fruit. One is a pvp Realm vs Realm game... one is a PvE raiding dungeon game.
well this again is not smart programming. What if say a goblin with a spear threw spears at you...then when got close enough to attack with its sword, did so, after a few seconds, it throws a net on you, runs back out of range, turns and starts lobbing spears at you again. when you broke out of your netting, you charge it again, the goblin throws spears at you until you are in close enough, then it switches swords. When it's health gets low, it runs back to where other goblins are hanging out in a ruins, so you better catch it before 3 more goblins are on you!
That AI seems a bit smarter....and its from a game which came out a year or 2 before DFO....and i was playing it 2 days ago. It's called LOTRO.
I use this as an example cause it's the most recent pve game i played.
What I still cannot figure out, is why in a game that is and has been roundly touted for its Open Realm vs Realm play, that you consistently harp on .. pve mob pathing and behavior. It's like someone playing FFXI and QQing that the PvP stinks.
Darkfall has not once, that I have seen, touted how challenging their mob play was. Was this ever a point where people waiting for the game was wondering would be great? If so, those people were only deluding themselves. Adventurine should just leave the mobs as they are, smart or not, and continue to focus on the PvP Open Realm vs Realm aspects of its game. After all, that's the draw. That's what 90% of the people who signed up want to do. They are not into mob hunting as you seem to be. They would probably just prefer the mobs stay stupid, so they can farm them for mats to build weapons, their armor and their cities.
...
It's beta testers and players who both hyped and critiqued the "advanced mob AI", however, Tasos greatly emphasized early beta test comments by publishing them:
Old 11-18-2008, 12:10 PM
Tasos
Darkfall Developer
Join Date: Jan 2003
Default
AI
The AI has been reported very tough, even the newbie AI. When they’re very damaged they flee and are hard to catch up to. We’ve done some tweaking and as the players familiarize themselves with the game more, they seem to be enjoying the experience. Again these are not your run of the mill MMOG AI.
“The AI on the goblin scouts surprised me. They kept running from me when they were low on health and peppered me with arrows until I got exhausted from chasing them and died miserably.”
"Those little bastards are the bane of my existence with their strafing. I have never wanted to squash an NPC as bad as that before. I love it."
“Did some goblin hunting with [censored], explored for a bit and stumbled across a large cave system where we eventually found a nest of kobolds (ugly bastards). Eventually they got the better of us though.”
“The first mobs I found in dwarf area were hitting from extreme range and then did special attacks that were stamina draining. It was rather brutal for a starting area and I died several times to repeat the 5 minute run.”
“"When I engage a goblin in melee and he starts to run I quickly get my staff and nuke him from a distance, then when he is down I sprint to his buddies to engage them aswell. Its not easy but then again taking down 3-4 humanoid opponents at once 1 day from character creation should not be."
“Also the monster pathing is in need of tweaking and collisions of PCs and NPCs with environment or each other results in "bouncing" quite a bit.”
“The AI is very cool, and just needs some tweaking. You can get it trapped trying to run away from you in some cases, for example. Otherwise it presents a big challenge. One guy trying to take on 4 goblins is not simple - the goblins will melee you and then sprint away to kite you around while the other ones shoot you, and the second you go for them instead, the one that was running will pull out its own bow...”
“Intelligent AI? This is something I've not experienced until entering Df. It's as if fighting the mobs mirrored fighting other players. They actually work together attempting to kill you rather then serving as your training material.”
“Also, with regard to the AI. I found myself dumbfounded when fighting Ork Beastmasters who are mainly magic users in combat. I sat there staring at this Ork who was staring at me, waiting for me to fire another mana missile at it, anticipating where I was going to shoot and then firing back at me and hitting me! I was sure a dev had jumped into the body of the Ork and was playing a joke. It's like nothing I've played in an MMO.”
“I can take out goblins pretty easily by meleeing them until they run, and then playing LOS games using bow/magic. The spell is AE so shooting it at their feet works best. Arrows travel really fast and you should have no trouble hitting them most of the time when they're shooting at you too. Arrows don't really do enough damage though.”
“It's extremely entertaining to fight 2 or 3 goblins at once. Swings of my sword hit two or three at the same time, and part of the time I get to watch them kill each other from errant swings. Great stuff.”
“BTW [censored] got his freaking head chopped off by an Ork protector. I laughed so hard it hurt. Completely awesome though.”
“Starting in the game is rough, unlike most MMos where things are handed out to you on a plate at the beginning you need to work to get somewhere. The work you have to do in Darkfall is killing the newbie mobs in order to get resources to start off your in-game career, however, unlike other MMos these mobs aren't a joke. By the time you kill your first one you will probably be smiling to see the bastard dead infront of you and even happier if you actually get to loots the mobs corpse instead of being chased off by its friends.”
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart."
“AI is great, it provides a challenge, but im no idiot, the AI knows exactly where my cursor is pointing and it zigzags and responds to it lighting fast, im a old time quake 3 player, predicting movement and using
splash damage was a requisite to becoming a great quake 3 player, these mobs currently put the highest level of quake 3 bots (nightmare bots) to shame, they respond much too quickly to cursor (aim) position for ranged attacks, even utilizing splash/aiming at feet technique. Another AI behavior i'd like to address is...are mobs really ALL supposed to have range abilities? I'm sorry, that's silly, yes it cuts down on players just messing up melee specific mobs with range/magic, but its a tad bit repetitive when mobs start hitting you from 200 yards away, if ogres have the ability to use bows, they should realistically drop a [heavy] type bow or at least a different type of bow. Others may agree with the fact that all mobs have access to ranged abilities, but I may just be a different type of person, I know I won't be the only person that disagrees with ogres hitting me with arrows, boulders or rocks? Sure, but it comes down to always being hit from 200+ yards off by every monster under the sun, regardless of size, being humanoid, etc...”
“The goblins seems to have been toned down considerably and I can farm them VERY easy now with my starter sword. That is the way it feels for me atleast. I used to get 1 goblin hitting me with a sword while 2 or 3 of his pals walked in a half circle around me hitting me with arrows. Now I just kick their asses. Have I gotten that much better since last time I played or have they been toned down alot?”
“For anyone who has kited mobs in other MMOs... Goblins are a very cruel payback.”
“The thing I hope will change the most is mob spawns and town npc's. The world is beautiful but it feels like a deserted wasteland for the most part. I understand that this is only beta so I will not comment on this more for now in hope that it is one of the things that are about to change.”
“I do very much love the game so far but my other huge gripe is with the AI strafing and running around like lunatics. I understand there is supposed to be more of a challenge then just standing toe to toe (or twenty feet away with bows pointed at each other) but the way the mobs run/jump/strafe reminds me more of a Quake Deathmatch then a serious role playing game even if it is a roleplaying game with heavy FPS elements.”
“The AI on the goblins in the newbie areas definitely needs to be toned down. I would even send out patrols of one or two goblins farther away from the spawn area with the great A.I. But having 2-3 linked and calling in even more so quickly as it is now makes soloing virtually impossible. Unless you're really really good which new players aren't. In other words, the AI in the newbie areas is TOO good. I know it is good training, but I've been getting my butt handed to me all day and as a new player it would be very frustrating.”
"There was a good dialogue about this in global chat last night. The consensus was the AI for noobie mobs (the first ones you encounter after creating a character) are just way to difficult. There needs to be a gradual progression of difficulty in the game to allow new players to adapt to the interface and learn the combat mechanics. Where are the bunnies and deer and cows of UO? Or training dummies? Or if goblins are intended to be the first mobs then they need to be toned down considerably."
Next: Controls - Gameplay
__________________
Last edited by Tasos; 11-18-2008 at 12:14 PM..
By doing so, he implicitly touted the mob AI as a feature of the game and, right or wrong, players and potential players have been discussing it ever since.
not much of a forum troll but really... this game has been in production for 10 years or so...
Not sure if this guy is pro/con for Darkfall, but I stopped reading his opinion at this point.
I haven't been following DF, but even I know it hasn't been in production for 10 years.
Really?? Do a little research on a company called Razorwax and you will find that it is actually over 10 years. The started the design documents in the mid 90's.
Nice failboi troll but you loose like all the other sycophants.
Really?? Do a little research on a company called Razorwax and you will find that it is actually over 10 years. The started the design documents in the mid 90's. Nice failboi troll but you loose like all the other sycophants.
From another rant post, another thread:
Originally posted by phrank:
Can't wait for the sycophantic insane delusional failbois to start ripping on you for it.
And yet another rant post, another thread:
Originally posted by phrank:
When they follow DnL and go bankrupt with their small hardcore obsequious sycophantic delusional failboi fanbase as the only remaining players.
Looks like someone learned a new word in class today before school let out for the weekend. I am very glad to see that my tax dollars are working in the public school system.
Comments
and how does that make the AI smart? hell throw a random path x time programming in there and the ai is no smarter, just changes path at random times....and yes in LOTRO i seen recently, humanoid npcs will run back to their pack if they can so others will join the attack
That is because you are not objective. You have never been objective. You have posted negative stuff about Darkfall constantly and you mostly focus on the trivial when you are doing that.
Anyone looking at Darkfall objectively can see that it's a no brainer they will open a second server. When they open that one, then you'll come back and say "Ok, they have two now, but I don't see them opening more than 10 servers", to give yourself more error room next time. The sheer amount of interest in this game, and the amounts still waiting to purchase and play should have been your first clues.
But you choose to ignore that simply because you just "can not see" it. Hopefully after they open their second server, you'll at least take one finger out of your ear, so some rational message can get through to you.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Darkfall mobs kite you, lol...
That is because you are not objective. You have never been objective. You have posted negative stuff about Darkfall constantly and you mostly focus on the trivial when you are doing that.
Anyone looking at Darkfall objectively can see that it's a no brainer they will open a second server. When they open that one, then you'll come back and say "Ok, they have two now, but I don't see them opening more than 10 servers", to give yourself more error room next time. The sheer amount of interest in this game, and the amounts still waiting to purchase and play should have been your first clues.
But you choose to ignore that simply because you just "can not see" it. Hopefully after they open their second server, you'll at least take one finger out of your ear, so some rational message can get through to you.
point me to one, other than the quality of graphics, where i have been negative about the GAME. Go ahead. Fine i dont like the graphical style of the avatars...but i almost never comment that the game SUCKS. I have had objective opinions, and there are things i like and dislike about the game, but never have i flat out dismissed the game. Aventurine....yes...its a turd company, but the concept and game could be great.
So last night i'm playing WoW with my wife and we were in an instance and i rush up to this mob when all of a sudden out of nowhere it roots me runs away and starts to cast spells at me
a little later in that same instance i am attacking a mob and suddenly it calls for help and nest thing i know 3 more mobs come rushing to its aid
then i was shocked when i was tying to kill a boss mob and boom the "helper mobs" stop attacking me and start to heal the boss
i was shocked it seems the WoW devs played darkfall and stole all the advanced AI and quietly snuck it into their game
i know i'll be told stfu and go back to wow and i'm okay with that see i have a choice play games i like better and toss off or play wow and get to sleep with my wife
so at least till i have another exwife
wow it is
well this again is not smart programming. What if say a goblin with a spear threw spears at you...then when got close enough to attack with its sword, did so, after a few seconds, it throws a net on you, runs back out of range, turns and starts lobbing spears at you again. when you broke out of your netting, you charge it again, the goblin throws spears at you until you are in close enough, then it switches swords. When it's health gets low, it runs back to where other goblins are hanging out in a ruins, so you better catch it before 3 more goblins are on you!
That AI seems a bit smarter....and its from a game which came out a year or 2 before DFO....and i was playing it 2 days ago. It's called LOTRO.
I use this as an example cause it's the most recent pve game i played.
I didnt comment on it being smart, I was just comparing the way they retreat. It seemed more fun to me to not have them take a straight path away. Some run back a bit and try to range you then back off more when you get close again.
It is just different, I dont care if its "Smarter" or not, it felt very different compared to what I am use to from other games and that made it fun.
well this again is not smart programming. What if say a goblin with a spear threw spears at you...then when got close enough to attack with its sword, did so, after a few seconds, it throws a net on you, runs back out of range, turns and starts lobbing spears at you again. when you broke out of your netting, you charge it again, the goblin throws spears at you until you are in close enough, then it switches swords. When it's health gets low, it runs back to where other goblins are hanging out in a ruins, so you better catch it before 3 more goblins are on you!
That AI seems a bit smarter....and its from a game which came out a year or 2 before DFO....and i was playing it 2 days ago. It's called LOTRO.
I use this as an example cause it's the most recent pve game i played.
The goblins act pretty much as you described, other than throwing nets. Instead of lobing spears, they use arrows.
When they get close they use either axes, short sword and shirld or clubs, depending on which type of goblin it is.
Meanwhile other Goblins stand at range and pepper you with arrows,or in the case of the Shamans, spells.
...
well this again is not smart programming. What if say a goblin with a spear threw spears at you...then when got close enough to attack with its sword, did so, after a few seconds, it throws a net on you, runs back out of range, turns and starts lobbing spears at you again. when you broke out of your netting, you charge it again, the goblin throws spears at you until you are in close enough, then it switches swords. When it's health gets low, it runs back to where other goblins are hanging out in a ruins, so you better catch it before 3 more goblins are on you!
That AI seems a bit smarter....and its from a game which came out a year or 2 before DFO....and i was playing it 2 days ago. It's called LOTRO.
I use this as an example cause it's the most recent pve game i played.
The goblins act pretty much as you described, other than throwing nets. Instead of lobing spears, they use arrows.
When they get close they use either axes, short sword and shirld or clubs, depending on which type of goblin it is.
Meanwhile other Goblins stand at range and pepper you with arrows,or in the case of the Shamans, spells.
...
Exactly, so it's AI is really no more advanced, other than the not running in straight lines. Granted it is nice to have decent AI, as it appears to be the case with both DFO and LOTRO (and other games). Makes PVE more challenging, which is always a bonus.
LMFAO................
Does the Ai strife left and right while shooting at you? Does the AI try to Kite you?, Does the AI circle you around and zigzag you while its buddys are side stepping and shooting arrows or spells? I dont think so. In fact I dont think its possible to miss a mob in WoW it merely says Evaded over there head.
Website | Forum | Values | Join Us!
Im glad I could just throw out my first day experience and some people enjoyed my post.
Ill try the z key,
I guess i was thinking of AoC where u cant attack on left side of horse. I dunno.
Website | Forum | Values | Join Us!
Does the Ai strife left and right while shooting at you? Does the AI try to Kite you?, Does the AI circle you around and zigzag you while its buddys are side stepping and shooting arrows or spells? I dont think so. In fact I dont think its possible to miss a mob in WoW it merely says Evaded over there head.
game mechanics =/= Smart AI. Course it wont physically dodge in a non FPS game, there is no point. But like i stated, just because it zig zags does not make it any smarter, that's just randomized pathing.
Does the Ai strife left and right while shooting at you? Does the AI try to Kite you?, Does the AI circle you around and zigzag you while its buddys are side stepping and shooting arrows or spells? I dont think so. In fact I dont think its possible to miss a mob in WoW it merely says Evaded over there head.
just to correct you from what i see you can miss get dodged be blocked and parried mobs mobs from what i gather and say "evaded" when they cant hit you back and since they dont want you to be able to kill mobs that dont fight back they evade
also if i recall the mobs in ddo kite you if they are not "melee" mobs
Does the Ai strife left and right while shooting at you? Does the AI try to Kite you?, Does the AI circle you around and zigzag you while its buddys are side stepping and shooting arrows or spells? I dont think so. In fact I dont think its possible to miss a mob in WoW it merely says Evaded over there head.
Oh leave em alone ......Cant you see he is busy with the wife now..................../chuckles....
not much of a forum troll but really... this game has been in production for 10 years or so with 1/10 of the mmos you guys are comparing here, its like comparing a minicooper with a monster truck, it might be fun.. maybe, theres no saying it cant be but to offer the things the devs are saying.. well its just hilarious how some people can believe them and as for the graphics... well reminds me a bit of Hexxen. If this game is not vaporware like Ive always called it (bit like duke nukem forever xcept here nobody gives a shit bout the IP) then it will be a poorly made low content game. But hey some people like those kinda games, look at mount and blade ex.
As for us rest, well we basicly float with the mainstream always finding something to whine and moan about
*as a side note how can one expect that with that tight budget to produce what many like to call a dream game, maybe it could be fun, but really a dream game? 10mil might sound much but thats only bout 1mil a year for production and should they succeed itl probably be the most well invested money of all time*
care to elaborate on why you think the AI is bad? because it cuts and runs at low health? i don't know anyone can say DF NPC AI is bad with a straight face when the AI every other MMO is essentially "auto-attack until dead" with zero variation between mob types.
as for bad combat, well that's just too subjective. i don't think i could ever go back to any MMO with auto-targeted, auto-attacking combat again.
Yes,ill elaborate. The AI basically runs round in circles or zigzags at random intervals,which has no real tactic or reasoning. a lot of fanbois are declaring this to be advanced AI,but it really isnt.As for the cut and run at low health thing,this is in practically every MMO.Ive never played a game where I could auto attack stuff to death and mobs have no variation,but id be interested to know which games these are.
Heres an example,I was fighting these hawkmen at a large nesting area.I attacked one from range and it ran over to me to fight. It then ran around in a zigzag fashion in front of me,and then tore off in a direction toward some tents.It then ran back,cast a shield,and then ran off again back to its spawn point where it then proceeded to ignore me,even though i was stood in the same place. I fought 2 at once and barely took damage because they were just running around in a random pattern,not trying to attack,not trying to flee,just running.
Right near the centre of the map theres these kind of giant werewolves with 4 arms.I ran past one and got into its aggro range,and it started chasing me.It ran directly behind me for a way,then stopped and ran in a sort of circle.It then turned to face me,paused and then reset and ran back to its starter position.
The goblins do the same thing;perhaps use a few ranged attacks and then begin running in random zigzags,stop,shoot another arrow,zig zag.At times theyll engage in melee,and after a few hits,run a few feet from you,run in a circle and then run back.Thats basically it.
The aggro range is really long so stuff ends up attacking you from miles off.
As for the combat,its bad because its so totally unconnected.Its basically a game of swinging your weapon in one of 2 directions with no real consequence.If you miss,then you dont lose any momentum and you can just swing again.Theres very little impact on blows bar a red blood splatter and its hard to tell if someones actually hitting you unless you keep an eye on your healthbar.This is particularly noticable on blocking. Sprinting in combat with the standard control set up means that if you accidently touch your scroll wheel your hotbar will scroll up which is really annoying.
Casting isnt too bad,but the weapon switching bug and clunkiness makes it really akward.The way you have to press the hotkey,wait for it to load into the action slot and then activate it with left click makes it flow a lot less smooth than it should.
Archery is ok,but its very jittery and the bad animations on mobs and other players doesnt help with your aim.again,the weapon switch bugging out really fuggs it up.
The animations are stiff and jerky and blocking just seems utterly broken.Dodging in and out of combat isnt really very valid as everythings very slow,so it becomes hit and miss at best.if you have a sword and shield and your opponent a polearm,then its almost impossible.
The combat is like a slower,jerkier version of age of chivalry except without a decent defense system and having to weapon swap to use ranged skills.
What I still cannot figure out, is why in a game that is and has been roundly touted for its Open Realm vs Realm play, that you consistently harp on .. pve mob pathing and behavior. It's like someone playing FFXI and QQing that the PvP stinks.
Darkfall has not once, that I have seen, touted how challenging their mob play was. Was this ever a point where people waiting for the game was wondering would be great? If so, those people were only deluding themselves. Adventurine should just leave the mobs as they are, smart or not, and continue to focus on the PvP Open Realm vs Realm aspects of its game. After all, that's the draw. That's what 90% of the people who signed up want to do. They are not into mob hunting as you seem to be. They would probably just prefer the mobs stay stupid, so they can farm them for mats to build weapons, their armor and their cities.
I really don't know why you want to turn the game into some kind of PvE critical game. Just play the PvP; that's what everyone else is doing. I really don't know why you haven't figured out Adventurine doesn't give two hoots about smart mobs. It's not central to the Darkfall scheme one bit.
And duh.. is it any wonder why the AI in LOTRO is smarter? It's a ... say it with me.. PvE game. Wouldn't be to bring to have dumb AI in a PvE based storygame, now would it? Also, with the money they spent on that IP, the AI had BETTER be smarter than Darkfalls, or I'd be deeply disappointed.
You should stop comparing apples/oranges and then claiming they are supposed to be the same fruit. One is a pvp Realm vs Realm game... one is a PvE raiding dungeon game.
"TO MICHAEL!"
well this again is not smart programming. What if say a goblin with a spear threw spears at you...then when got close enough to attack with its sword, did so, after a few seconds, it throws a net on you, runs back out of range, turns and starts lobbing spears at you again. when you broke out of your netting, you charge it again, the goblin throws spears at you until you are in close enough, then it switches swords. When it's health gets low, it runs back to where other goblins are hanging out in a ruins, so you better catch it before 3 more goblins are on you!
That AI seems a bit smarter....and its from a game which came out a year or 2 before DFO....and i was playing it 2 days ago. It's called LOTRO.
I use this as an example cause it's the most recent pve game i played.
What I still cannot figure out, is why in a game that is and has been roundly touted for its Open Realm vs Realm play, that you consistently harp on .. pve mob pathing and behavior. It's like someone playing FFXI and QQing that the PvP stinks.
Darkfall has not once, that I have seen, touted how challenging their mob play was. Was this ever a point where people waiting for the game was wondering would be great? If so, those people were only deluding themselves. Adventurine should just leave the mobs as they are, smart or not, and continue to focus on the PvP Open Realm vs Realm aspects of its game. After all, that's the draw. That's what 90% of the people who signed up want to do. They are not into mob hunting as you seem to be. They would probably just prefer the mobs stay stupid, so they can farm them for mats to build weapons, their armor and their cities.
I really don't know why you want to turn the game into some kind of PvE critical game. Just play the PvP; that's what everyone else is doing. I really don't know why you haven't figured out Adventurine doesn't give two hoots about smart mobs. It's not central to the Darkfall scheme one bit.
And duh.. is it any wonder why the AI in LOTRO is smarter? It's a ... say it with me.. PvE game. Wouldn't be to bring to have dumb AI in a PvE based storygame, now would it? Also, with the money they spent on that IP, the AI had BETTER be smarter than Darkfalls, or I'd be deeply disappointed.
You should stop comparing apples/oranges and then claiming they are supposed to be the same fruit. One is a pvp Realm vs Realm game... one is a PvE raiding dungeon game.
Blame the fanbois.
Not sure if this guy is pro/con for Darkfall, but I stopped reading his opinion at this point.
I haven't been following DF, but even I know it hasn't been in production for 10 years.
"TO MICHAEL!"
For...? lol
"TO MICHAEL!"
For...? lol
........
yeah never mind.....
well this again is not smart programming. What if say a goblin with a spear threw spears at you...then when got close enough to attack with its sword, did so, after a few seconds, it throws a net on you, runs back out of range, turns and starts lobbing spears at you again. when you broke out of your netting, you charge it again, the goblin throws spears at you until you are in close enough, then it switches swords. When it's health gets low, it runs back to where other goblins are hanging out in a ruins, so you better catch it before 3 more goblins are on you!
That AI seems a bit smarter....and its from a game which came out a year or 2 before DFO....and i was playing it 2 days ago. It's called LOTRO.
I use this as an example cause it's the most recent pve game i played.
What I still cannot figure out, is why in a game that is and has been roundly touted for its Open Realm vs Realm play, that you consistently harp on .. pve mob pathing and behavior. It's like someone playing FFXI and QQing that the PvP stinks.
Darkfall has not once, that I have seen, touted how challenging their mob play was. Was this ever a point where people waiting for the game was wondering would be great? If so, those people were only deluding themselves. Adventurine should just leave the mobs as they are, smart or not, and continue to focus on the PvP Open Realm vs Realm aspects of its game. After all, that's the draw. That's what 90% of the people who signed up want to do. They are not into mob hunting as you seem to be. They would probably just prefer the mobs stay stupid, so they can farm them for mats to build weapons, their armor and their cities.
...
It's beta testers and players who both hyped and critiqued the "advanced mob AI", however, Tasos greatly emphasized early beta test comments by publishing them:
Old 11-18-2008, 12:10 PM
Tasos
Darkfall Developer
Join Date: Jan 2003
Default
AI
The AI has been reported very tough, even the newbie AI. When they’re very damaged they flee and are hard to catch up to. We’ve done some tweaking and as the players familiarize themselves with the game more, they seem to be enjoying the experience. Again these are not your run of the mill MMOG AI.
“The AI on the goblin scouts surprised me. They kept running from me when they were low on health and peppered me with arrows until I got exhausted from chasing them and died miserably.”
"Those little bastards are the bane of my existence with their strafing. I have never wanted to squash an NPC as bad as that before. I love it."
“Did some goblin hunting with [censored], explored for a bit and stumbled across a large cave system where we eventually found a nest of kobolds (ugly bastards). Eventually they got the better of us though.”
“The first mobs I found in dwarf area were hitting from extreme range and then did special attacks that were stamina draining. It was rather brutal for a starting area and I died several times to repeat the 5 minute run.”
“"When I engage a goblin in melee and he starts to run I quickly get my staff and nuke him from a distance, then when he is down I sprint to his buddies to engage them aswell. Its not easy but then again taking down 3-4 humanoid opponents at once 1 day from character creation should not be."
“Also the monster pathing is in need of tweaking and collisions of PCs and NPCs with environment or each other results in "bouncing" quite a bit.”
“The AI is very cool, and just needs some tweaking. You can get it trapped trying to run away from you in some cases, for example. Otherwise it presents a big challenge. One guy trying to take on 4 goblins is not simple - the goblins will melee you and then sprint away to kite you around while the other ones shoot you, and the second you go for them instead, the one that was running will pull out its own bow...”
“Intelligent AI? This is something I've not experienced until entering Df. It's as if fighting the mobs mirrored fighting other players. They actually work together attempting to kill you rather then serving as your training material.”
“Also, with regard to the AI. I found myself dumbfounded when fighting Ork Beastmasters who are mainly magic users in combat. I sat there staring at this Ork who was staring at me, waiting for me to fire another mana missile at it, anticipating where I was going to shoot and then firing back at me and hitting me! I was sure a dev had jumped into the body of the Ork and was playing a joke. It's like nothing I've played in an MMO.”
“I can take out goblins pretty easily by meleeing them until they run, and then playing LOS games using bow/magic. The spell is AE so shooting it at their feet works best. Arrows travel really fast and you should have no trouble hitting them most of the time when they're shooting at you too. Arrows don't really do enough damage though.”
“It's extremely entertaining to fight 2 or 3 goblins at once. Swings of my sword hit two or three at the same time, and part of the time I get to watch them kill each other from errant swings. Great stuff.”
“BTW [censored] got his freaking head chopped off by an Ork protector. I laughed so hard it hurt. Completely awesome though.”
“Starting in the game is rough, unlike most MMos where things are handed out to you on a plate at the beginning you need to work to get somewhere. The work you have to do in Darkfall is killing the newbie mobs in order to get resources to start off your in-game career, however, unlike other MMos these mobs aren't a joke. By the time you kill your first one you will probably be smiling to see the bastard dead infront of you and even happier if you actually get to loots the mobs corpse instead of being chased off by its friends.”
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart."
“AI is great, it provides a challenge, but im no idiot, the AI knows exactly where my cursor is pointing and it zigzags and responds to it lighting fast, im a old time quake 3 player, predicting movement and using
splash damage was a requisite to becoming a great quake 3 player, these mobs currently put the highest level of quake 3 bots (nightmare bots) to shame, they respond much too quickly to cursor (aim) position for ranged attacks, even utilizing splash/aiming at feet technique. Another AI behavior i'd like to address is...are mobs really ALL supposed to have range abilities? I'm sorry, that's silly, yes it cuts down on players just messing up melee specific mobs with range/magic, but its a tad bit repetitive when mobs start hitting you from 200 yards away, if ogres have the ability to use bows, they should realistically drop a [heavy] type bow or at least a different type of bow. Others may agree with the fact that all mobs have access to ranged abilities, but I may just be a different type of person, I know I won't be the only person that disagrees with ogres hitting me with arrows, boulders or rocks? Sure, but it comes down to always being hit from 200+ yards off by every monster under the sun, regardless of size, being humanoid, etc...”
“The goblins seems to have been toned down considerably and I can farm them VERY easy now with my starter sword. That is the way it feels for me atleast. I used to get 1 goblin hitting me with a sword while 2 or 3 of his pals walked in a half circle around me hitting me with arrows. Now I just kick their asses. Have I gotten that much better since last time I played or have they been toned down alot?”
“For anyone who has kited mobs in other MMOs... Goblins are a very cruel payback.”
“The thing I hope will change the most is mob spawns and town npc's. The world is beautiful but it feels like a deserted wasteland for the most part. I understand that this is only beta so I will not comment on this more for now in hope that it is one of the things that are about to change.”
“I do very much love the game so far but my other huge gripe is with the AI strafing and running around like lunatics. I understand there is supposed to be more of a challenge then just standing toe to toe (or twenty feet away with bows pointed at each other) but the way the mobs run/jump/strafe reminds me more of a Quake Deathmatch then a serious role playing game even if it is a roleplaying game with heavy FPS elements.”
“The AI on the goblins in the newbie areas definitely needs to be toned down. I would even send out patrols of one or two goblins farther away from the spawn area with the great A.I. But having 2-3 linked and calling in even more so quickly as it is now makes soloing virtually impossible. Unless you're really really good which new players aren't. In other words, the AI in the newbie areas is TOO good. I know it is good training, but I've been getting my butt handed to me all day and as a new player it would be very frustrating.”
"There was a good dialogue about this in global chat last night. The consensus was the AI for noobie mobs (the first ones you encounter after creating a character) are just way to difficult. There needs to be a gradual progression of difficulty in the game to allow new players to adapt to the interface and learn the combat mechanics. Where are the bunnies and deer and cows of UO? Or training dummies? Or if goblins are intended to be the first mobs then they need to be toned down considerably."
Next: Controls - Gameplay
__________________
Last edited by Tasos; 11-18-2008 at 12:14 PM..
By doing so, he implicitly touted the mob AI as a feature of the game and, right or wrong, players and potential players have been discussing it ever since.
~Ripper
Not sure if this guy is pro/con for Darkfall, but I stopped reading his opinion at this point.
I haven't been following DF, but even I know it hasn't been in production for 10 years.
Really?? Do a little research on a company called Razorwax and you will find that it is actually over 10 years. The started the design documents in the mid 90's.
Nice failboi troll but you loose like all the other sycophants.
From another rant post, another thread:
And yet another rant post, another thread:
Looks like someone learned a new word in class today before school let out for the weekend. I am very glad to see that my tax dollars are working in the public school system.
At least one child wasn't left behind.
"TO MICHAEL!"