Hmm - dynamic quest generator sounds disturbingly alike to the Freelancer - go to point X and kill baddie Y for money. The guild space stations sounds interesting - but I'm wondering if the space stations themselves can be PvP'ed - doesn't take a lot of imagination to see one powerful guild destroying all challengers and then restricting growth if you're not part of their gang. I'll definitely keep an eye on it though
I know other games have done this, but SWG stands out the most for me. SWG had a dynamic mission generating system. Most people didn't read the stories before accepting them though, so they were highly underrated. People just picked them up and followed the waypoint. While the story was great, the actual "doing" of the mission was a copy and paste pretty much of similar type missions and they were all simplistic and boring.
BP is developing a game several years in the future and doesn't have to worry about player ran cities being able to be made all of the place, so they should have a much more interesting implementation of the mission system.
It sounds a bit like EvE with an experience point-based levelling system. How is it that different from EvE?
Yeah it sounds a "bit" like EVE because its in space and you fly spaceships. Yeah its just like EVE because EVE has levels too doesnt it....oh no....it doesnt.
What a stupid thing to say. I suppose you think Black Prophecy is like Star Wars Battlefront as well because its a fast paced action game and its online and all fantasy mmos are like WoW because you kill monsters and farm loot
The graphics are just astounding. Considering EVE, which is considered the benchmark for all Sci-Fi and has recently had a major revamp in graphics is not up to this standard says a lot.
I wonder if its twitch like Jumpgate or more click and point like EVE.
Nothing to really get me excited about. A game cant survive on graphics alone. still putting all my eggs in the http://www.infinity-universe.com/Infinity/ basket. Really hopeing developement speeds up this year.
Yeah infinity could be the best Sci-fi space MMO. But before that it have to be developed. And end of development is far far away.
Ok first of all, to the developers of Black Prophecy congrats on your upcoming title.
Second, I wouldn't worry about copycatting a successful business model like Eve online, there's an Eve an it cant be copied, and noone wants a copy of it lol, honestly ( not a bash to Eve which I love to play and am activly subscribed btw ). It'll be what it'll be and wont take much to beat thier particular model in several ways.
1. Do your thing, there aren't so many sci fi titles out that you cant go off the chain and have fun with your creativity, your originality will pay off, sci fi is all about different, that should be your aim, and should be for everyone creating a sci fi mmo model.
2. Your skill system, it's good to have "missioning for progression" but basing the whole system off of it for any mmorpg developer is not bringing a next gen title, it's been done, it's here now, and isn't going anywhere anytime soon.. once again explore, just don't make a guy wait on a two or three week timer to fly ships Just imagine how many people wont play Eve because of that.
3. Now I'm not too familiar with Michael Marrak's work ( I'll read up Mike I promise as long as it's not writen in German ) but your already off to a good start in getting someone who has an original idea and style to the sci fi genre, so when you take a writer like this, your fans expect his style of writing and they expect more, for instance if you have salvatore writing, then we expect salavatore quality dont fall short there and you'll be fine, storyline-wise assuming Mike does well for an mmo.
On your business model.
The going rate pretty much and as we all know is about 14-15 bucks, unless you go free to play, or wanna take a hit and go lower than the norm, but why do that? Set your model upfront and go with it, there is no reason in the world people should have to ask, "What is your business model?" and if you wanna sell something, when people ask you a price, the worst thing to do is say " we don't know yet".
OK now and this...
"With the term next generation action MMO we are combining a number of approaches to offer a completely new game experience. Key features of this new game experience include the use of a state-of-the-art graphics engine and a fast and exciting real-time combat system that makes it possible for the player to enjoy an as intense as possible gaming experience."
Your not saying much here guys. Every new mmo that comes out is a shot at new graphics, and what people are going for is to make their game available to everyone, both low and high end. So dont sell me on high end graphics, sell me on high end gameplay and replayability. Real time doesnt say much for ya either to the guy sitting behind the pc, it's all real time.
And last your going to pit various leveled players against eachother? Thats fine with me, but you may wanna look at how people react to that gameplay, lower skilled players do not appreciate getting one shotted by high skill players, and yup it happens as long as it's allowed .
Last I wish you guys the best with your new mmorpg, and look forward to playing it. Hey by the way, do us all a favor and let people actually run around inside their ships will ya? and some ground content would hurt either.
It sounds a bit like EvE with an experience point-based levelling system. How is it that different from EvE?
Yeah it sounds a "bit" like EVE because its in space and you fly spaceships. Yeah its just like EVE because EVE has levels too doesnt it....oh no....it doesnt.
What a stupid thing to say. I suppose you think Black Prophecy is like Star Wars Battlefront as well because its a fast paced action game and its online and all fantasy mmos are like WoW because you kill monsters and farm loot
You're missing my point entirely, which is that it needs something BIG to stand out from EvE. Just putting in a levelling system won't do it. Get it?
Back in EvE. Started with BatMUD. Main MMOs have been EvE and DAoC.
I might start by saying ,i for one do not believe that EVE is a successful model to judge a sci fi game by.It seems to be on the front here,that this game is a copy of EVE,witch is a fail in my books.How can you have a space exploration game and not be able to explore anything.As in EVE how can you make a massive MMO universe and again not be able to explore anything? You can explore in EvE, but it is all survey-based stuff and exceedingly expensive both time-wise and ISK-wise. It's not like in Mass Effect where you can go down to planets and look for ore and stuff, or board abandoned ships. I would love to have a game like that that incorporates what you can do in EvE with what you can do in Mass Effect.
Basically as in EVE the whole game takes place in your tiny ship or a space station,not much actual play space as far as i am concerned.I would not call moving around in an empty space playing,i could create a game world like that in a matte of one day,by making a huge box ,put in some static planets/stars,pfft pretty boring. You're being unfair here... the EvE galaxy is huuuge and you don't just have planets and stars in each system: you got plexes, dynamic exploration sites, different roid belts, stations, etc. If you've ever checked out the descriptions of the celestial bodies, they're all different from one another. Some poor schmuk had to change all of those descriptions... I just wish these space games would get it right.I know it is a massive undertaking to create content on each and every planet,but if this is the genre you are going to go after,then you need to step up,EVE fails BIG time,in delivering the proper content and this game i fear will as well.Creating a database to include ship items or improvements is again a very lacklustre way of including content and takes very little effort to implement.Sure i know everyone wants that fancy ship and have lots of stuff to add to it,but that should just be the VERY basic structure of the game,that would not be the content as far as i am concerned. EvE is what it is and that's just fine in my view. Perhaps it's a niche game, but a growing number of players think the same way as me. The industry could use a game that you're describing, but it would be absolutely massive. The closest thing was SWG after JTL was released, but then you only had a tiny set of planets you could land on i.e. the ones already present in the game world at release + ones that were added in xpacs. The fact that SoE almost forced SWG to fail is tragic. I could be wrong,but i also feel the PVE content wil lbe nothing more than the missions,witch is warp or fly here/there and return,again lacklustre game play and pretty boring. You want to impress the MAJORITY of the public ???here is how>>>>EXPLORATION CONTENT.Without it ,you might as well be making a cheap console game. Like Mass Effect Online? That would be amazing!
Back in EvE. Started with BatMUD. Main MMOs have been EvE and DAoC.
Originally posted by Wizardry Basically as in EVE the whole game takes place in your tiny ship or a space station,not much actual play space as far as i am concerned.I would not call moving around in an empty space playing,i could create a game world like that in a matte of one day,by making a huge box ,put in some static planets/stars,pfft pretty boring. I just wish these space games would get it right.I know it is a massive undertaking to create content on each and every planet,but if this is the genre you are going to go after,then you need to step up,EVE fails BIG time,in delivering the proper content and this game i fear will as well.Creating a database to include ship items or improvements is again a very lacklustre way of including content and takes very little effort to implement.Sure i know everyone wants that fancy ship and have lots of stuff to add to it,but that should just be the VERY basic structure of the game,that would not be the content as far as i am concerned.
So, what would you add to eve to make it good in your eyes?
From the Black Prophecy Site FAQ: 3. Will it be possible to exit your ship and walk around on space stations or planets? This feature will not be part of the release version but is not necessarily ruled out for any further expansions of Black Prophecy.
And this is why I will initially ignore this MMO. Will I engage my enemies in combat? No. My ship will engage enemies in combat. Blah. Will I get to board enemy ships and try to capture them? No. Either the enemy ship is outright destroyed, or it is merely *assumed* I boarded it and the step is skipped. BS. Will there be planetside PvP? No. Those big balls of rock are just decoration. No thanks. A ship is not an avatar. It's an impersonal pile of pixels with weapons systems.
"In contrast to competing games, we are focussing on exciting PvE and PvP game content that players can experience without investing excessive amounts of time."
Sounds like Easy-EvE. Aiming for all the players who thought EvE was too hard. Which admittedly is a large group.
The graphics are sertainly stunning! I am just concerned about this so called dynamic mission system. If it turns out to be just like EVE Online's or City of Heroes type of so called dynamic mission system, just with more fancy quest text... well then meh. BORING! These so called dynamic mission systems is basically just lazyness and a cheap way to create infinitive content in a cheap and easy way. The big big downside of that is that it becomes boring really fast! Aka EVE Online aka City of Heroes. Another dissapointment is that they go for the themepark aka leveling system route. Wich is a shame. But as they haven't really reveiled yet how this leveling system looks. If it's just like giving out Skill points you can spend freely. Then it would be okay I guess. But if you are forced into linear class type paths again.... meh. But I keep an eye on how it all evolves nonetheless.
It's not that I don't agree with you, it's just that I don't think you're the target audience here. You don't sound like a casual gamer, because casual gamers aren't bothered with those things, because you don't "grind" missions like hardcore players do. Casual players are more concerned with an enjoyable play experience for the hour or so they are on each day. A game that promises a great story in a different setting than we're used to will do exactly that, even if it is the same old MMO model we're used to in fantasy games.
I think this game will bore the hell out of most hardcore players, but I really haven't met a casual player that was bothered with the mission system if it had some good text attached to it.
I'm a casual player and I play WAR. WAR is a perfect game for casual players that enjoy PvP. I log in for about 15min-1 hour and I may PvP the whole time, or get some influence from PQ's, but none of it bores me, because I don't play long enough for it to bore me. When WAR first came out, I played it hardcore and I bored really fast of it. This tought me that casual players really do experience games differently than the hardcore. There are exceptions, but anything you do for a long period of time gets boring fast. That's because humans enjoy variety by their very nature. Casual players get variety through doing other things in real life, while hardcore gamers get their variety with a deeper more involved game, or by playing several shallower games.
How do you know I am not the target audience?
The average aka casual player isn't the person that only plays 15 minutes a day. Get a clue.
The average player, wich is referred to as casual player, plays about 2 hours per game session. Doesn't mean he / she does it every day.
You cannot play an MMO for just 15 mins or just 30 mins. You will never be able to enjoy it as you won't feel any progress you make.
It doesn't matter if it's level based or skill based. If you only have 15 to 30 minutes to play per session, then MMO's in general are not for you.
Everyone knows that MMO's aka RPG games are a bit more time consuming games compared to other type of games.
It doesn't mean you have to spend 5 to 10 hours per session, like some do. Or even more. But you easily spend 2 hours playing per session.
Even if we look at EVE Online. Wich should be THE perfect game for casual players due to the time based automatic skill training.
Yet, doing only one PVE mission a day, or a 15-30 min mining session a day... the game will get boring real fast as it will take ages for you to get any ISK together to advance. As your skills with outpace your ISK flow.
So by the time you are able to fly Battleships like an Ace, you are lucky to have enough ISK together to buy a cruiser.
So again. MMO's are time consuming. Period! And if you are a person that only has 15 to 30 mins a day average to play and looking for an MMO that will cater to you exclusively... then I am sorry, but you can wait till eternity! As you are not the casual player and thus the part of the majority audience.
The majority of MMO gamers or gamers in general spend around 2 hours a day / per session. Almost all MMO's to date target that kind of audience already (at least the western MMO's).
3. Will it be possible to exit your ship and walk around on space stations or planets?
This feature will not be part of the release version but is not necessarily ruled out for any further expansions of Black Prophecy.
And this is why I will initially ignore this MMO.
Will I engage my enemies in combat? No. My ship will engage enemies in combat. Blah.
Will I get to board enemy ships and try to capture them? No. Either the enemy ship is outright destroyed, or it is merely *assumed* I boarded it and the step is skipped. BS.
Will there be planetside PvP? No. Those big balls of rock are just decoration.
No thanks. A ship is not an avatar. It's an impersonal pile of pixels with weapons systems.
Its a game about flying around in spaceships. Of course you cant get out of your ship or run around inside it. No you cant watch your silly little humanoid avatar use the toilet or have a drink in the canteen. Its a space game.
Big balls of rock just decoration? What are all those trees, mountains, hills and rivers etc in other mmos then? Its ALL decoration.
A ship is not an avatar? Of course it bloody well is. An impersonal pile of pixels? You dont think your little dwarf in WoW is actually alive do you? Oh look at him laugh when I type the /laugh emote! Oh now I can make him dance and clap his hands! Oh what fun! Oh he has such personality! Oh now I feel immersed in the game because he seems soooooo life like.
I'm glad the ship is the avatar in this game. Then I wont have to watch retards jumping up and down on the heads of npcs, setting off dance emotes like its the funniest thing they've ever done and generally acting like complete and utter twats.
It doesnt matter if the avatar is a spaceship, a dwarf, a dragon or a cybernetic vacuum cleaner gone rogue. If it fits with what the game is trying to be then its fine. Its just a 3d model made in Maya or 3D Studio Max. This is a game about people flying spaceships around in outerspace so your avatar is a spaceship just like it is in any other FPS space shooter. If you can only play mmos where you dress up your little man in outfits and equip him him with swords and laser guns in a failed attempt at fooling yourself into thinking you are unique then there are plenty of them around for ya. Go and play one of them instead and stop moaning about a game simply because it doesnt fit into your limited short-sighted view of what a game should be.
It sounds a bit like EvE with an experience point-based levelling system. How is it that different from EvE?
Yeah it sounds a "bit" like EVE because its in space and you fly spaceships. Yeah its just like EVE because EVE has levels too doesnt it....oh no....it doesnt.
What a stupid thing to say. I suppose you think Black Prophecy is like Star Wars Battlefront as well because its a fast paced action game and its online and all fantasy mmos are like WoW because you kill monsters and farm loot
You're missing my point entirely, which is that it needs something BIG to stand out from EvE. Just putting in a levelling system won't do it. Get it?
Yes I get what you mean and no it doesnt need something BIG actually. Its pretty obvious from the article that the game isnt going to be or play like EvE. The only similarity is that it has spaceships in it. There are lots of mmos that have people running around on the ground killing monsters with swords but they dont need to be vastly different from each other to do well. Even if Black Prophecy was a direct rip-off of EVE (which it isnt) then it would still be vastly different to most other mmos.
Yes and people are complaining about just that in fantasy MMOs.
I'll say again, why should I leave my 2.5 year old EvE character to play something that is only vaguely different? I think a lot of EvE players would be faced with the same question. In other words, those who play EvE probably won't leave it for BP: those who love EvE have no cause to, those who are fence sitters and wish there was more variety in sci fi MMOs will not leave because this game doesn't really offer anything different except for a few mechanics, one that is not necessarily an improvement over EvE (aka the level-based system).
EvE is a niche game overall, albeit one that has grown quite a bit over the years. But, for those who wish there was something else in the sci fi genre, BP would simply have to be absolutely amazing, like more amazing than EvE and/or be so substantially different that it would appeal to more players. Otherwise they will just attract a niche of a niche.
Edit - Forgot to mention that I want to put special emphasis on the time I've put into my EvE character. I'm only middling old... there are some people who have invested far more time in their characters than I have in EvE. They're not going to jump ship, so to speak, that easily to a new spaceship MMO. I think that BP will only appeal to those who want a space game, but didn't like EvE. A lot of people have the wrong ideas about EvE's skill system for example. They think it's a problem without realising what an asset it actually is.
Back in EvE. Started with BatMUD. Main MMOs have been EvE and DAoC.
Yes and people are complaining about just that in fantasy MMOs.
I'll say again, why should I leave my 2.5 year old EvE character to play something that is only vaguely different? I think a lot of EvE players would be faced with the same question. In other words, those who play EvE probably won't leave it for BP: those who love EvE have no cause to, those who are fence sitters and wish there was more variety in sci fi MMOs will not leave because this game doesn't really offer anything different except for a few mechanics, one that is not necessarily an improvement over EvE (aka the level-based system).
EvE is a niche game overall, albeit one that has grown quite a bit over the years. But, for those who wish there was something else in the sci fi genre, BP would simply have to be absolutely amazing, like more amazing than EvE and/or be so substantially different that it would appeal to more players. Otherwise they will just attract a niche of a niche.
Edit - Forgot to mention that I want to put special emphasis on the time I've put into my EvE character. I'm only middling old... there are some people who have invested far more time in their characters than I have in EvE. They're not going to jump ship, so to speak, that easily to a new spaceship MMO. I think that BP will only appeal to those who want a space game, but didn't like EvE. A lot of people have the wrong ideas about EvE's skill system for example. They think it's a problem without realising what an asset it actually is.
I dont agree. People will try out a new game when it comes out if they like the look of it. It doesnt matter how similar to any other game it might be. People just like to have new games to explore and experience. You are saying that everyone who plays EVE has no reason to play any other mmo which has spaceships in it unless it is much better than EVE. Thats just ridiculous! Lots of people will play Black Prophecy because it will be a new setting to explore. It will have different ships, a different backstory and different game mechanics. The Q&A article specifically said they were trying to do something different to EVE and even if that turns out not to be totally true then plenty of people will still play it because it offers a bit of variety on the "space mmo" selection.
I have played Crysis. It was a great FPS game. Does that mean I cant enjoy any other FPS game because all games with guns and a first person view are going to be too similar? You personally may have invested a large chunk of your life into playing EVE but not everyone gets so emotionally attached to a game because its just a game. Some people who like EVE will stop playing it and will try out Black Prophecy. Others who dont like EVE will try it out. Some will stay with it. Some will go back to EVE. Some will go back to other games.
The simple fact that EVE is the only vaguely decent mmo set in space in which you can control spaceships means that BP will provide a good alternative place for players to visit. Besides you might be personally fine with spending several years playing ONE computer game but many people want more variety in their gaming experiences. I personally rarely play any mmo for longer than about 4 months before I get tired of repeating the same old stuff and get the urge to play something else.
Besides you dont really know enough about the game yet to claim that it is a copycat of EVE so you're not really making any valid points. Why should you leave EVE after playing it for over 2 years? Well.....isnt the fact that you have been playing it for over 2 years a good enough reason? But then if you can play a single game for such a long time then no there is no reason for you to stop playing it. Just carry on with what you were doing if thats what you enjoy doing. Other people might want to play something else though and as you dont know any of those people you cant really speak on their behalf can you.
Yes and people are complaining about just that in fantasy MMOs.
I'll say again, why should I leave my 2.5 year old EvE character to play something that is only vaguely different? I think a lot of EvE players would be faced with the same question. In other words, those who play EvE probably won't leave it for BP: those who love EvE have no cause to, those who are fence sitters and wish there was more variety in sci fi MMOs will not leave because this game doesn't really offer anything different except for a few mechanics, one that is not necessarily an improvement over EvE (aka the level-based system).
EvE is a niche game overall, albeit one that has grown quite a bit over the years. But, for those who wish there was something else in the sci fi genre, BP would simply have to be absolutely amazing, like more amazing than EvE and/or be so substantially different that it would appeal to more players. Otherwise they will just attract a niche of a niche.
Edit - Forgot to mention that I want to put special emphasis on the time I've put into my EvE character. I'm only middling old... there are some people who have invested far more time in their characters than I have in EvE. They're not going to jump ship, so to speak, that easily to a new spaceship MMO. I think that BP will only appeal to those who want a space game, but didn't like EvE. A lot of people have the wrong ideas about EvE's skill system for example. They think it's a problem without realising what an asset it actually is.
fast and active combat is a rather huge way to differentiate BP from EvE. I quit EvE because the only thing to do combat wise was to kill pirates, and combat involved in killing pirates wasn't that entertaining and defnitely wasn't fast paced. I also felt EvE was all about the ISK. Anything you wanted to do in the game required you to have so much ISK to enable yourself to be able to do it. Otherwise, you were stuck fighting the same type of NPC's, which are boring to begin with. You need ISK to buy anything that you'll ever need and lots of it.
People mention PvP, but you don't have a lot of choice of what you can do. As a new player, I can do what in EvE? Trap people? What if I'm a combat oriented type of person who wants to be the guy flying the X-Wings (visual example only). The learning curve is also steep, which many people would rather not have in a hobby if they spend relatively little time involved in that hobby and EvE overcomplicates things. Some people just want to roll up a ship the way they roll up other avatars, equip them simply and go out and kill things. Most people don't want to work the market, do some seriously repetitive and slow thing, like mining or killing pirates, and want to be on equal footing with everyone in the game or have at least the ability to catch up to the veterans. I know in EvE, a veteran can't fly more than one ship, but the strength is in the flexibility and time spent gaining ISK compared to a new (1 month old) guy when ISK is extremely important in the game.
I think EvE is a great game, I really do, but to assume no one will want to play BP is silly. BP sounds like they are aiming for the player types who like WoW styled gameplay ideas with a sci fi picture.
I dont agree. People will try out a new game when it comes out if they like the look of it. It doesnt matter how similar to any other game it might be. People just like to have new games to explore and experience. You are saying that everyone who plays EVE has no reason to play any other mmo which has spaceships in it unless it is much better than EVE. Thats just ridiculous! Lots of people will play Black Prophecy because it will be a new setting to explore. It will have different ships, a different backstory and different game mechanics. The Q&A article specifically said they were trying to do something different to EVE and even if that turns out not to be totally true then plenty of people will still play it because it offers a bit of variety on the "space mmo" selection. That depends entirely on how truly popular space ship MMOs are with players. So far, I haven't seen much evidence that they will ever be as popular as fantasy are or any first person types of games, like AO. Plus, this game will have to not only compete against EvE, it will also have to compete against Star Trek. That's again why I think it will be a niche of a niche.
I have played Crysis. It was a great FPS game. Does that mean I cant enjoy any other FPS game because all games with guns and a first person view are going to be too similar? You personally may have invested a large chunk of your life into playing EVE but not everyone gets so emotionally attached to a game because its just a game. Some people who like EVE will stop playing it and will try out Black Prophecy. Others who dont like EVE will try it out. Some will stay with it. Some will go back to EVE. Some will go back to other games. There you make the assumption that I don't treat EvE as a game. You are wrong about that. However, I see EvE as comfortably occupying a niche and there *are* lots of EvE players who are extremely die hard fans of the game. It would take a hell of a lot to entice people away: an EvE character is not like a character in most other games because not only does it take a lot longer to develope EvE characters but because of how EvE is organised, people who don't stay in NPC corps become very attached to the community. Plus, the rewards vs risk in EvE is addicting, much like gambling...
The simple fact that EVE is the only vaguely decent mmo set in space in which you can control spaceships means that BP will provide a good alternative place for players to visit. Besides you might be personally fine with spending several years playing ONE computer game but many people want more variety in their gaming experiences. I personally rarely play any mmo for longer than about 4 months before I get tired of repeating the same old stuff and get the urge to play something else. I'm an MMO nomad. EvE is about the only game I've played for several years with DAoC a distant second. I've played most MMOs on the block except for AoC which I won't touch with a 10 ft pole. I will probably try BP, but like with WAR, I probably won't stay. From what I've read about this game, it's the step in the wrong direction.
Besides you dont really know enough about the game yet to claim that it is a copycat of EVE so you're not really making any valid points. Why should you leave EVE after playing it for over 2 years? Well.....isnt the fact that you have been playing it for over 2 years a good enough reason? But then if you can play a single game for such a long time then no there is no reason for you to stop playing it. Just carry on with what you were doing if thats what you enjoy doing. Other people might want to play something else though and as you dont know any of those people you cant really speak on their behalf can you. You're trying to make me out as some boring loser who doesn't try any other games. You obviously haven't looked at my sig then. As I've said, I've tried almost all of the P2P MMOs out there except for AoC. I know what forms the EvE crowd after perusing the forums for so long and playing alongside these players. They don't budge much and if they do try out new games, they too, like me, come back to EvE. To break that cycle, it would have to be an amazing game. It would have to be a waaaay above average sci fi game to net even the fence sitters imo, because EvE at least is tried, true and blue. That's why I still claim this game will *probably* be a niche which appeals to those who want a spacegame but don't like EvE. As I mention in my first paragraph, this could be a much smaller amount of players than one might think. Just look at JTL: it should have made it huge... like WoW huge even because it was Star Wars and implemented the most exciting part of Star Wars. But it didn't. Just look at E&B. People I know who beta'ed it said it was pretty good, but it was canned in development. Now there is going to be STO, and Jumpgate Evolution... so BP won't just be competing with EvE... it will have to compete with them. And STO *does* have substantial content differences from EvE, at least as far as they've advertised.
Sure, they haven't said much in general. But the whole point of my original post was that so far, there isn't anything that sounds ground-breaking enough to make me think this game will do solidly well against EvE, which is for sure the benchmark in this genre as of right now.
Back in EvE. Started with BatMUD. Main MMOs have been EvE and DAoC.
fast and active combat is a rather huge way to differentiate BP from EvE. I quit EvE because the only thing to do combat wise was to kill pirates, and combat involved in killing pirates wasn't that entertaining and defnitely wasn't fast paced. I also felt EvE was all about the ISK. Anything you wanted to do in the game required you to have so much ISK to enable yourself to be able to do it. Otherwise, you were stuck fighting the same type of NPC's, which are boring to begin with. You need ISK to buy anything that you'll ever need and lots of it. BP will probably follow suit of the more typical MMOs in that not only will you have an 'ISK' grind, but you'll also have an xp grind. Perhaps they'll also add a ship module grind to emulate the typical loot whoring that goes on in most other MMOs and that there is less of in EvE outside of plexes. I can see where you're coming from though with respect to the pace of combat in EvE and killing rats. But is killing rats in EvE truly more boring than killing mobs in other MMOs? AI in MMOs is still not terribly 'smart'. I get bored with killing mobs in MMOs in general. We don't really know what the missions will be like in BP. They might be just as boring as EvE's.
People mention PvP, but you don't have a lot of choice of what you can do. As a new player, I can do what in EvE? Trap people? What if I'm a combat oriented type of person who wants to be the guy flying the X-Wings (visual example only). The learning curve is also steep, which many people would rather not have in a hobby if they spend relatively little time involved in that hobby and EvE overcomplicates things. Some people just want to roll up a ship the way they roll up other avatars, equip them simply and go out and kill things. Most people don't want to work the market, do some seriously repetitive and slow thing, like mining or killing pirates, and want to be on equal footing with everyone in the game or have at least the ability to catch up to the veterans. I know in EvE, a veteran can't fly more than one ship, but the strength is in the flexibility and time spent gaining ISK compared to a new (1 month old) guy when ISK is extremely important in the game. We don't know yet if BP will offer flexibility or an easy learning curve or not.
I think EvE is a great game, I really do, but to assume no one will want to play BP is silly. BP sounds like they are aiming for the player types who like WoW styled gameplay ideas with a sci fi picture. I didn't say that BP won't appeal to anyone. I said it would appeal mainly to those who disliked EvE that want to play a space ship game, but I think that there aren't that many people who fall into that category. A sci fi game would be popular, but but more like one in which you can see your avatar... a bit like AO but with a space ship component, or something like Mass Effect. A lot of the other games that had space ship components didn't do very well and now that STO is coming, I think it will be hard for an indep company to break through in the genre.
Back in EvE. Started with BatMUD. Main MMOs have been EvE and DAoC.
I dont agree. People will try out a new game when it comes out if they like the look of it. It doesnt matter how similar to any other game it might be. People just like to have new games to explore and experience. You are saying that everyone who plays EVE has no reason to play any other mmo which has spaceships in it unless it is much better than EVE. Thats just ridiculous! Lots of people will play Black Prophecy because it will be a new setting to explore. It will have different ships, a different backstory and different game mechanics. The Q&A article specifically said they were trying to do something different to EVE and even if that turns out not to be totally true then plenty of people will still play it because it offers a bit of variety on the "space mmo" selection. That depends entirely on how truly popular space ship MMOs are with players. So far, I haven't seen much evidence that they will ever be as popular as fantasy are or any first person types of games, like AO. Plus, this game will have to not only compete against EvE, it will also have to compete against Star Trek. That's again why I think it will be a niche of a niche.
Well we wont ever know how popular space ship mmos are until games companies start making more of them will we. Obviously you havent seen much evidence of people liking that kind of game because EVE is the only decent one of its kind and its not exactly the easist game to get into is it. How can you possibly talk about what is popular and what isnt when there is only ONE decent space ship mmo to judge by? Obviously we need more of them to be made available so people will have more choice. Black Prophecy will help with that and hopefully more variety on the space ship theme will follow.
I have played Crysis. It was a great FPS game. Does that mean I cant enjoy any other FPS game because all games with guns and a first person view are going to be too similar? You personally may have invested a large chunk of your life into playing EVE but not everyone gets so emotionally attached to a game because its just a game. Some people who like EVE will stop playing it and will try out Black Prophecy. Others who dont like EVE will try it out. Some will stay with it. Some will go back to EVE. Some will go back to other games. There you make the assumption that I don't treat EvE as a game. You are wrong about that. However, I see EvE as comfortably occupying a niche and there *are* lots of EvE players who are extremely die hard fans of the game. It would take a hell of a lot to entice people away: an EvE character is not like a character in most other games because not only does it take a lot longer to develope EvE characters but because of how EvE is organised, people who don't stay in NPC corps become very attached to the community. Plus, the rewards vs risk in EvE is addicting, much like gambling...
Yes you see it that way but that doesnt mean thats how it actually is. Thats just how it is for you. You seem to have a habit with making sweeping statements about very large numbers of people that you dont personally know. These "die hard fans" that you refer to.....do you know them all personally? Have you asked every single one of them the question "If another space ship mmo came out and it happened to be a good game would you consider subscribing to it?". No I didnt think so.
Yes EVE can be addictive. So can lots of mmos. WoW has 12 million people addicted to it and yet there is no risk vs reward at all. Even WAR which is a pretty terrible game has roughly 300k subscribers and again there is no risk vs reward. In fact if I was a narrow minded person incapable of seeing the bigger picture I would be really tempted to argue that games with any form of risk vs reward in them are extremely unpopular......but I wont because the only reason less people are playing games like that is because there are hardly any of them available so it would obviously be an unfair statement to make.
The simple fact that EVE is the only vaguely decent mmo set in space in which you can control spaceships means that BP will provide a good alternative place for players to visit. Besides you might be personally fine with spending several years playing ONE computer game but many people want more variety in their gaming experiences. I personally rarely play any mmo for longer than about 4 months before I get tired of repeating the same old stuff and get the urge to play something else. I'm an MMO nomad. EvE is about the only game I've played for several years with DAoC a distant second. I've played most MMOs on the block except for AoC which I won't touch with a 10 ft pole. I will probably try BP, but like with WAR, I probably won't stay. From what I've read about this game, it's the step in the wrong direction.
Thats fine. Some people will stay. Some people wont. Mmos dont need massive numbers of people to stay to make a profit. As long as the cost of staff wages, server maintenance and any other extra costs are covered then they are fine.......and at roughly £10 per month per subscriber even an epic failure of an mmo rakes in more than enough money.
Its not a step in the wrong direction. Its just another option for people to choose from. How can that be a bad thing?
Besides you dont really know enough about the game yet to claim that it is a copycat of EVE so you're not really making any valid points. Why should you leave EVE after playing it for over 2 years? Well.....isnt the fact that you have been playing it for over 2 years a good enough reason? But then if you can play a single game for such a long time then no there is no reason for you to stop playing it. Just carry on with what you were doing if thats what you enjoy doing. Other people might want to play something else though and as you dont know any of those people you cant really speak on their behalf can you. You're trying to make me out as some boring loser who doesn't try any other games. You obviously haven't looked at my sig then. As I've said, I've tried almost all of the P2P MMOs out there except for AoC. I know what forms the EvE crowd after perusing the forums for so long and playing alongside these players. They don't budge much and if they do try out new games, they too, like me, come back to EvE. To break that cycle, it would have to be an amazing game. It would have to be a waaaay above average sci fi game to net even the fence sitters imo, because EvE at least is tried, true and blue. That's why I still claim this game will *probably* be a niche which appeals to those who want a spacegame but don't like EvE. As I mention in my first paragraph, this could be a much smaller amount of players than one might think. Just look at JTL: it should have made it huge... like WoW huge even because it was Star Wars and implemented the most exciting part of Star Wars. But it didn't. Just look at E&B. People I know who beta'ed it said it was pretty good, but it was canned in development. Now there is going to be STO, and Jumpgate Evolution... so BP won't just be competing with EvE... it will have to compete with them. And STO *does* have substantial content differences from EvE, at least as far as they've advertised.
I wasnt trying to make you sound like a loser. Its just that you sound extremely certain about everything you say and yet like must of us you're just a person who plays games. You also make a lot of sweeping generalising statements about large numbers of people that you dont actually know as though its all a fact when actually its only your perception of things. You dont know how people will react to BP when it comes out so there really isnt any point in pretending that you do. You will just have to wait and see along with everyone else.
Sure, they haven't said much in general. But the whole point of my original post was that so far, there isn't anything that sounds ground-breaking enough to make me think this game will do solidly well against EvE, which is for sure the benchmark in this genre as of right now.
Of course EVE is the benchmark for that type of game. Its the ONLY game of its type around. Its nice to see BP and any other games of its type adding a bit of variety.
Besides what does "solidly well" mean anyway? Who cares if it has more or less subscribers than EVE? If it provides any number of people with something to play that they enjoy then who gives a shit if the EVE die hards fanatics carry on playing EVE? If I play BP and find myself liking and subscribing to it then I couldnt care less how well it is doing in relation to EVEs subscription numbers. I wont be thinking about EVE because I will be playing BP (shrugs).
I gotta admit, the graphics are nice. But, this interview brought nothing to the table.
Cue generic MMO interview number 376:
So, what makes it Next Gen?:
Well, we've got good graphics, realtime combat, a background story and ooo we have a mission generator! These are some of the features that we think makes BP innovative!.
Uh, ok, what makes it innovative?:
We have the best AI in the world, the graphics are outstanding and did I mention that we have a mission generator and someone writing the lore? We feel that this thrusts BP into the "Next Gen" category. <now go back to the first question>
I really hope that you guys succeed in BP's launch, but sadly this interview does nothing to promote the game.
Using "buzz words" and injecting no details to back them up is just a poor attempt at marketing, nothing more.
People look at it and say "Isn't this just another Jumpgate Evolution?"
And I'm even beginning to have my doubts about JGE being able to capture a persons interest longer than it takes to install it.
Originally posted by neonwire Originally posted by Crelm From the Black Prophecy Site FAQ: 3. Will it be possible to exit your ship and walk around on space stations or planets? This feature will not be part of the release version but is not necessarily ruled out for any further expansions of Black Prophecy.
And this is why I will initially ignore this MMO. Will I engage my enemies in combat? No. My ship will engage enemies in combat. Blah. Will I get to board enemy ships and try to capture them? No. Either the enemy ship is outright destroyed, or it is merely *assumed* I boarded it and the step is skipped. BS. Will there be planetside PvP? No. Those big balls of rock are just decoration. No thanks. A ship is not an avatar. It's an impersonal pile of pixels with weapons systems.
Its a game about flying around in spaceships. Of course you cant get out of your ship or run around inside it. No you cant watch your silly little humanoid avatar use the toilet or have a drink in the canteen. Its a space game. Big balls of rock just decoration? What are all those trees, mountains, hills and rivers etc in other mmos then? Its ALL decoration. A ship is not an avatar? Of course it bloody well is. An impersonal pile of pixels? You dont think your little dwarf in WoW is actually alive do you? Oh look at him laugh when I type the /laugh emote! Oh now I can make him dance and clap his hands! Oh what fun! Oh he has such personality! Oh now I feel immersed in the game because he seems soooooo life like. I'm glad the ship is the avatar in this game. Then I wont have to watch retards jumping up and down on the heads of npcs, setting off dance emotes like its the funniest thing they've ever done and generally acting like complete and utter twats. It doesnt matter if the avatar is a spaceship, a dwarf, a dragon or a cybernetic vacuum cleaner gone rogue. If it fits with what the game is trying to be then its fine. Its just a 3d model made in Maya or 3D Studio Max. This is a game about people flying spaceships around in outerspace so your avatar is a spaceship just like it is in any other FPS space shooter. If you can only play mmos where you dress up your little man in outfits and equip him him with swords and laser guns in a failed attempt at fooling yourself into thinking you are unique then there are plenty of them around for ya. Go and play one of them instead and stop moaning about a game simply because it doesnt fit into your limited short-sighted view of what a game should be.
as i quickly stated below this is EVE re dux, they arent bringing anything new to the mmo world with this game. its ships and space whoopdy do, EVE did that, and with there minimal impact on the massive MMO player base, you would think a new MMO would have actual avatars that walk around and do something other than being a thing in a gooey pod floating in your ship. that type of immersion in my opinion would absolutely dominate the market. I for 1 and so freaking tired of fantasy based MMOs, I tried TR and it was so blah. I say black prophecy needs to add humanoids, or aliens or whatever or get the hell out of the playground we dont want it. If EVE added humanoids I would actually play it, but other than that its frickin boring to fly around shoot stuff and harvest asteroids.
3. Will it be possible to exit your ship and walk around on space stations or planets?
This feature will not be part of the release version but is not necessarily ruled out for any further expansions of Black Prophecy.
And this is why I will initially ignore this MMO.
Will I engage my enemies in combat? No. My ship will engage enemies in combat. Blah.
Will I get to board enemy ships and try to capture them? No. Either the enemy ship is outright destroyed, or it is merely *assumed* I boarded it and the step is skipped. BS.
Will there be planetside PvP? No. Those big balls of rock are just decoration.
No thanks. A ship is not an avatar. It's an impersonal pile of pixels with weapons systems.
Its a game about flying around in spaceships. Of course you cant get out of your ship or run around inside it. No you cant watch your silly little humanoid avatar use the toilet or have a drink in the canteen. Its a space game.
Big balls of rock just decoration? What are all those trees, mountains, hills and rivers etc in other mmos then? Its ALL decoration.
A ship is not an avatar? Of course it bloody well is. An impersonal pile of pixels? You dont think your little dwarf in WoW is actually alive do you? Oh look at him laugh when I type the /laugh emote! Oh now I can make him dance and clap his hands! Oh what fun! Oh he has such personality! Oh now I feel immersed in the game because he seems soooooo life like.
I'm glad the ship is the avatar in this game. Then I wont have to watch retards jumping up and down on the heads of npcs, setting off dance emotes like its the funniest thing they've ever done and generally acting like complete and utter twats.
It doesnt matter if the avatar is a spaceship, a dwarf, a dragon or a cybernetic vacuum cleaner gone rogue. If it fits with what the game is trying to be then its fine. Its just a 3d model made in Maya or 3D Studio Max. This is a game about people flying spaceships around in outerspace so your avatar is a spaceship just like it is in any other FPS space shooter. If you can only play mmos where you dress up your little man in outfits and equip him him with swords and laser guns in a failed attempt at fooling yourself into thinking you are unique then there are plenty of them around for ya. Go and play one of them instead and stop moaning about a game simply because it doesnt fit into your limited short-sighted view of what a game should be.
as i quickly stated below this is EVE re dux, they arent bringing anything new to the mmo world with this game. its ships and space whoopdy do, EVE did that, and with there minimal impact on the massive MMO player base, you would think a new MMO would have actual avatars that walk around and do something other than being a thing in a gooey pod floating in your ship. that type of immersion in my opinion would absolutely dominate the market. I for 1 and so freaking tired of fantasy based MMOs, I tried TR and it was so blah. I say black prophecy needs to add humanoids, or aliens or whatever or get the hell out of the playground we dont want it. If EVE added humanoids I would actually play it, but other than that its frickin boring to fly around shoot stuff and harvest asteroids.
Comments
I know other games have done this, but SWG stands out the most for me. SWG had a dynamic mission generating system. Most people didn't read the stories before accepting them though, so they were highly underrated. People just picked them up and followed the waypoint. While the story was great, the actual "doing" of the mission was a copy and paste pretty much of similar type missions and they were all simplistic and boring.
BP is developing a game several years in the future and doesn't have to worry about player ran cities being able to be made all of the place, so they should have a much more interesting implementation of the mission system.
Yeah it sounds a "bit" like EVE because its in space and you fly spaceships. Yeah its just like EVE because EVE has levels too doesnt it....oh no....it doesnt.
What a stupid thing to say. I suppose you think Black Prophecy is like Star Wars Battlefront as well because its a fast paced action game and its online and all fantasy mmos are like WoW because you kill monsters and farm loot
The graphics are just astounding. Considering EVE, which is considered the benchmark for all Sci-Fi and has recently had a major revamp in graphics is not up to this standard says a lot.
I wonder if its twitch like Jumpgate or more click and point like EVE.
Yeah infinity could be the best Sci-fi space MMO. But before that it have to be developed. And end of development is far far away.
Ok first of all, to the developers of Black Prophecy congrats on your upcoming title.
Second, I wouldn't worry about copycatting a successful business model like Eve online, there's an Eve an it cant be copied, and noone wants a copy of it lol, honestly ( not a bash to Eve which I love to play and am activly subscribed btw ). It'll be what it'll be and wont take much to beat thier particular model in several ways.
1. Do your thing, there aren't so many sci fi titles out that you cant go off the chain and have fun with your creativity, your originality will pay off, sci fi is all about different, that should be your aim, and should be for everyone creating a sci fi mmo model.
2. Your skill system, it's good to have "missioning for progression" but basing the whole system off of it for any mmorpg developer is not bringing a next gen title, it's been done, it's here now, and isn't going anywhere anytime soon.. once again explore, just don't make a guy wait on a two or three week timer to fly ships
Just imagine how many people wont play Eve because of that.
3. Now I'm not too familiar with Michael Marrak's work ( I'll read up Mike I promise
as long as it's not writen in German ) but your already off to a good start in getting someone who has an original idea and style to the sci fi genre, so when you take a writer like this, your fans expect his style of writing and they expect more, for instance if you have salvatore writing, then we expect salavatore quality 
dont fall short there and you'll be fine, storyline-wise assuming Mike does well for an mmo.
On your business model.
The going rate pretty much and as we all know is about 14-15 bucks, unless you go free to play, or wanna take a hit and go lower than the norm, but why do that? Set your model upfront and go with it, there is no reason in the world people should have to ask, "What is your business model?" and if you wanna sell something, when people ask you a price, the worst thing to do is say " we don't know yet".
OK now and this...
"With the term next generation action MMO we are combining a number of approaches to offer a completely new game experience. Key features of this new game experience include the use of a state-of-the-art graphics engine and a fast and exciting real-time combat system that makes it possible for the player to enjoy an as intense as possible gaming experience."
Your not saying much here guys. Every new mmo that comes out is a shot at new graphics, and what people are going for is to make their game available to everyone, both low and high end. So dont sell me on high end graphics, sell me on high end gameplay and replayability. Real time doesnt say much for ya either
to the guy sitting behind the pc, it's all real time.
And last your going to pit various leveled players against eachother? Thats fine with me, but you may wanna look at how people react to that gameplay, lower skilled players do not appreciate getting one shotted by high skill players, and yup it happens as long as it's allowed
.
Last I wish you guys the best with your new mmorpg, and look forward to playing it. Hey by the way, do us all a favor and let people actually run around inside their ships will ya? and some ground content would hurt either.
Yeah it sounds a "bit" like EVE because its in space and you fly spaceships. Yeah its just like EVE because EVE has levels too doesnt it....oh no....it doesnt.
What a stupid thing to say. I suppose you think Black Prophecy is like Star Wars Battlefront as well because its a fast paced action game and its online and all fantasy mmos are like WoW because you kill monsters and farm loot
You're missing my point entirely, which is that it needs something BIG to stand out from EvE. Just putting in a levelling system won't do it. Get it?
Back in EvE. Started with BatMUD. Main MMOs have been EvE and DAoC.
Back in EvE. Started with BatMUD. Main MMOs have been EvE and DAoC.
So, what would you add to eve to make it good in your eyes?
From the Black Prophecy Site FAQ:
3. Will it be possible to exit your ship and walk around on space stations or planets?
This feature will not be part of the release version but is not necessarily ruled out for any further expansions of Black Prophecy.
And this is why I will initially ignore this MMO.
Will I engage my enemies in combat? No. My ship will engage enemies in combat. Blah.
Will I get to board enemy ships and try to capture them? No. Either the enemy ship is outright destroyed, or it is merely *assumed* I boarded it and the step is skipped. BS.
Will there be planetside PvP? No. Those big balls of rock are just decoration.
No thanks. A ship is not an avatar. It's an impersonal pile of pixels with weapons systems.
"In contrast to competing games, we are focussing on exciting PvE and PvP game content that players can experience without investing excessive amounts of time."
Sounds like Easy-EvE. Aiming for all the players who thought EvE was too hard. Which admittedly is a large group.
It's not that I don't agree with you, it's just that I don't think you're the target audience here. You don't sound like a casual gamer, because casual gamers aren't bothered with those things, because you don't "grind" missions like hardcore players do. Casual players are more concerned with an enjoyable play experience for the hour or so they are on each day. A game that promises a great story in a different setting than we're used to will do exactly that, even if it is the same old MMO model we're used to in fantasy games.
I think this game will bore the hell out of most hardcore players, but I really haven't met a casual player that was bothered with the mission system if it had some good text attached to it.
I'm a casual player and I play WAR. WAR is a perfect game for casual players that enjoy PvP. I log in for about 15min-1 hour and I may PvP the whole time, or get some influence from PQ's, but none of it bores me, because I don't play long enough for it to bore me. When WAR first came out, I played it hardcore and I bored really fast of it. This tought me that casual players really do experience games differently than the hardcore. There are exceptions, but anything you do for a long period of time gets boring fast. That's because humans enjoy variety by their very nature. Casual players get variety through doing other things in real life, while hardcore gamers get their variety with a deeper more involved game, or by playing several shallower games.
How do you know I am not the target audience?
The average aka casual player isn't the person that only plays 15 minutes a day. Get a clue.
The average player, wich is referred to as casual player, plays about 2 hours per game session. Doesn't mean he / she does it every day.
You cannot play an MMO for just 15 mins or just 30 mins. You will never be able to enjoy it as you won't feel any progress you make.
It doesn't matter if it's level based or skill based. If you only have 15 to 30 minutes to play per session, then MMO's in general are not for you.
Everyone knows that MMO's aka RPG games are a bit more time consuming games compared to other type of games.
It doesn't mean you have to spend 5 to 10 hours per session, like some do. Or even more. But you easily spend 2 hours playing per session.
Even if we look at EVE Online. Wich should be THE perfect game for casual players due to the time based automatic skill training.
Yet, doing only one PVE mission a day, or a 15-30 min mining session a day... the game will get boring real fast as it will take ages for you to get any ISK together to advance. As your skills with outpace your ISK flow.
So by the time you are able to fly Battleships like an Ace, you are lucky to have enough ISK together to buy a cruiser.
So again. MMO's are time consuming. Period! And if you are a person that only has 15 to 30 mins a day average to play and looking for an MMO that will cater to you exclusively... then I am sorry, but you can wait till eternity! As you are not the casual player and thus the part of the majority audience.
The majority of MMO gamers or gamers in general spend around 2 hours a day / per session. Almost all MMO's to date target that kind of audience already (at least the western MMO's).
Cheers
"...and a fast levelling curve, giving players access to all areas of the game with relatively little time invested."
Yay.. its a space WoW... wont be playing it now.
It looks interesting, and I love the graphics. I hope I get to play it one of these days.
Its a game about flying around in spaceships. Of course you cant get out of your ship or run around inside it. No you cant watch your silly little humanoid avatar use the toilet or have a drink in the canteen. Its a space game.
Big balls of rock just decoration? What are all those trees, mountains, hills and rivers etc in other mmos then? Its ALL decoration.
A ship is not an avatar? Of course it bloody well is. An impersonal pile of pixels? You dont think your little dwarf in WoW is actually alive do you? Oh look at him laugh when I type the /laugh emote! Oh now I can make him dance and clap his hands! Oh what fun! Oh he has such personality! Oh now I feel immersed in the game because he seems soooooo life like.
I'm glad the ship is the avatar in this game. Then I wont have to watch retards jumping up and down on the heads of npcs, setting off dance emotes like its the funniest thing they've ever done and generally acting like complete and utter twats.
It doesnt matter if the avatar is a spaceship, a dwarf, a dragon or a cybernetic vacuum cleaner gone rogue. If it fits with what the game is trying to be then its fine. Its just a 3d model made in Maya or 3D Studio Max. This is a game about people flying spaceships around in outerspace so your avatar is a spaceship just like it is in any other FPS space shooter. If you can only play mmos where you dress up your little man in outfits and equip him him with swords and laser guns in a failed attempt at fooling yourself into thinking you are unique then there are plenty of them around for ya. Go and play one of them instead and stop moaning about a game simply because it doesnt fit into your limited short-sighted view of what a game should be.
Yeah it sounds a "bit" like EVE because its in space and you fly spaceships. Yeah its just like EVE because EVE has levels too doesnt it....oh no....it doesnt.
What a stupid thing to say. I suppose you think Black Prophecy is like Star Wars Battlefront as well because its a fast paced action game and its online and all fantasy mmos are like WoW because you kill monsters and farm loot
You're missing my point entirely, which is that it needs something BIG to stand out from EvE. Just putting in a levelling system won't do it. Get it?
Yes I get what you mean and no it doesnt need something BIG actually. Its pretty obvious from the article that the game isnt going to be or play like EvE. The only similarity is that it has spaceships in it. There are lots of mmos that have people running around on the ground killing monsters with swords but they dont need to be vastly different from each other to do well. Even if Black Prophecy was a direct rip-off of EVE (which it isnt) then it would still be vastly different to most other mmos.
Yes and people are complaining about just that in fantasy MMOs.
I'll say again, why should I leave my 2.5 year old EvE character to play something that is only vaguely different? I think a lot of EvE players would be faced with the same question. In other words, those who play EvE probably won't leave it for BP: those who love EvE have no cause to, those who are fence sitters and wish there was more variety in sci fi MMOs will not leave because this game doesn't really offer anything different except for a few mechanics, one that is not necessarily an improvement over EvE (aka the level-based system).
EvE is a niche game overall, albeit one that has grown quite a bit over the years. But, for those who wish there was something else in the sci fi genre, BP would simply have to be absolutely amazing, like more amazing than EvE and/or be so substantially different that it would appeal to more players. Otherwise they will just attract a niche of a niche.
Edit - Forgot to mention that I want to put special emphasis on the time I've put into my EvE character. I'm only middling old... there are some people who have invested far more time in their characters than I have in EvE. They're not going to jump ship, so to speak, that easily to a new spaceship MMO. I think that BP will only appeal to those who want a space game, but didn't like EvE. A lot of people have the wrong ideas about EvE's skill system for example. They think it's a problem without realising what an asset it actually is.
Back in EvE. Started with BatMUD. Main MMOs have been EvE and DAoC.
I dont agree. People will try out a new game when it comes out if they like the look of it. It doesnt matter how similar to any other game it might be. People just like to have new games to explore and experience. You are saying that everyone who plays EVE has no reason to play any other mmo which has spaceships in it unless it is much better than EVE. Thats just ridiculous! Lots of people will play Black Prophecy because it will be a new setting to explore. It will have different ships, a different backstory and different game mechanics. The Q&A article specifically said they were trying to do something different to EVE and even if that turns out not to be totally true then plenty of people will still play it because it offers a bit of variety on the "space mmo" selection.
I have played Crysis. It was a great FPS game. Does that mean I cant enjoy any other FPS game because all games with guns and a first person view are going to be too similar? You personally may have invested a large chunk of your life into playing EVE but not everyone gets so emotionally attached to a game because its just a game. Some people who like EVE will stop playing it and will try out Black Prophecy. Others who dont like EVE will try it out. Some will stay with it. Some will go back to EVE. Some will go back to other games.
The simple fact that EVE is the only vaguely decent mmo set in space in which you can control spaceships means that BP will provide a good alternative place for players to visit. Besides you might be personally fine with spending several years playing ONE computer game but many people want more variety in their gaming experiences. I personally rarely play any mmo for longer than about 4 months before I get tired of repeating the same old stuff and get the urge to play something else.
Besides you dont really know enough about the game yet to claim that it is a copycat of EVE so you're not really making any valid points. Why should you leave EVE after playing it for over 2 years? Well.....isnt the fact that you have been playing it for over 2 years a good enough reason? But then if you can play a single game for such a long time then no there is no reason for you to stop playing it. Just carry on with what you were doing if thats what you enjoy doing. Other people might want to play something else though and as you dont know any of those people you cant really speak on their behalf can you.
fast and active combat is a rather huge way to differentiate BP from EvE. I quit EvE because the only thing to do combat wise was to kill pirates, and combat involved in killing pirates wasn't that entertaining and defnitely wasn't fast paced. I also felt EvE was all about the ISK. Anything you wanted to do in the game required you to have so much ISK to enable yourself to be able to do it. Otherwise, you were stuck fighting the same type of NPC's, which are boring to begin with. You need ISK to buy anything that you'll ever need and lots of it.
People mention PvP, but you don't have a lot of choice of what you can do. As a new player, I can do what in EvE? Trap people? What if I'm a combat oriented type of person who wants to be the guy flying the X-Wings (visual example only). The learning curve is also steep, which many people would rather not have in a hobby if they spend relatively little time involved in that hobby and EvE overcomplicates things. Some people just want to roll up a ship the way they roll up other avatars, equip them simply and go out and kill things. Most people don't want to work the market, do some seriously repetitive and slow thing, like mining or killing pirates, and want to be on equal footing with everyone in the game or have at least the ability to catch up to the veterans. I know in EvE, a veteran can't fly more than one ship, but the strength is in the flexibility and time spent gaining ISK compared to a new (1 month old) guy when ISK is extremely important in the game.
I think EvE is a great game, I really do, but to assume no one will want to play BP is silly. BP sounds like they are aiming for the player types who like WoW styled gameplay ideas with a sci fi picture.
I dont agree. People will try out a new game when it comes out if they like the look of it. It doesnt matter how similar to any other game it might be. People just like to have new games to explore and experience. You are saying that everyone who plays EVE has no reason to play any other mmo which has spaceships in it unless it is much better than EVE. Thats just ridiculous! Lots of people will play Black Prophecy because it will be a new setting to explore. It will have different ships, a different backstory and different game mechanics. The Q&A article specifically said they were trying to do something different to EVE and even if that turns out not to be totally true then plenty of people will still play it because it offers a bit of variety on the "space mmo" selection. That depends entirely on how truly popular space ship MMOs are with players. So far, I haven't seen much evidence that they will ever be as popular as fantasy are or any first person types of games, like AO. Plus, this game will have to not only compete against EvE, it will also have to compete against Star Trek. That's again why I think it will be a niche of a niche.
I have played Crysis. It was a great FPS game. Does that mean I cant enjoy any other FPS game because all games with guns and a first person view are going to be too similar? You personally may have invested a large chunk of your life into playing EVE but not everyone gets so emotionally attached to a game because its just a game. Some people who like EVE will stop playing it and will try out Black Prophecy. Others who dont like EVE will try it out. Some will stay with it. Some will go back to EVE. Some will go back to other games. There you make the assumption that I don't treat EvE as a game. You are wrong about that. However, I see EvE as comfortably occupying a niche and there *are* lots of EvE players who are extremely die hard fans of the game. It would take a hell of a lot to entice people away: an EvE character is not like a character in most other games because not only does it take a lot longer to develope EvE characters but because of how EvE is organised, people who don't stay in NPC corps become very attached to the community. Plus, the rewards vs risk in EvE is addicting, much like gambling...
The simple fact that EVE is the only vaguely decent mmo set in space in which you can control spaceships means that BP will provide a good alternative place for players to visit. Besides you might be personally fine with spending several years playing ONE computer game but many people want more variety in their gaming experiences. I personally rarely play any mmo for longer than about 4 months before I get tired of repeating the same old stuff and get the urge to play something else. I'm an MMO nomad. EvE is about the only game I've played for several years with DAoC a distant second. I've played most MMOs on the block except for AoC which I won't touch with a 10 ft pole. I will probably try BP, but like with WAR, I probably won't stay. From what I've read about this game, it's the step in the wrong direction.
Besides you dont really know enough about the game yet to claim that it is a copycat of EVE so you're not really making any valid points. Why should you leave EVE after playing it for over 2 years? Well.....isnt the fact that you have been playing it for over 2 years a good enough reason? But then if you can play a single game for such a long time then no there is no reason for you to stop playing it. Just carry on with what you were doing if thats what you enjoy doing. Other people might want to play something else though and as you dont know any of those people you cant really speak on their behalf can you. You're trying to make me out as some boring loser who doesn't try any other games. You obviously haven't looked at my sig then. As I've said, I've tried almost all of the P2P MMOs out there except for AoC. I know what forms the EvE crowd after perusing the forums for so long and playing alongside these players. They don't budge much and if they do try out new games, they too, like me, come back to EvE. To break that cycle, it would have to be an amazing game. It would have to be a waaaay above average sci fi game to net even the fence sitters imo, because EvE at least is tried, true and blue. That's why I still claim this game will *probably* be a niche which appeals to those who want a spacegame but don't like EvE. As I mention in my first paragraph, this could be a much smaller amount of players than one might think. Just look at JTL: it should have made it huge... like WoW huge even because it was Star Wars and implemented the most exciting part of Star Wars. But it didn't. Just look at E&B. People I know who beta'ed it said it was pretty good, but it was canned in development. Now there is going to be STO, and Jumpgate Evolution... so BP won't just be competing with EvE... it will have to compete with them. And STO *does* have substantial content differences from EvE, at least as far as they've advertised.
Sure, they haven't said much in general. But the whole point of my original post was that so far, there isn't anything that sounds ground-breaking enough to make me think this game will do solidly well against EvE, which is for sure the benchmark in this genre as of right now.
Back in EvE. Started with BatMUD. Main MMOs have been EvE and DAoC.
fast and active combat is a rather huge way to differentiate BP from EvE. I quit EvE because the only thing to do combat wise was to kill pirates, and combat involved in killing pirates wasn't that entertaining and defnitely wasn't fast paced. I also felt EvE was all about the ISK. Anything you wanted to do in the game required you to have so much ISK to enable yourself to be able to do it. Otherwise, you were stuck fighting the same type of NPC's, which are boring to begin with. You need ISK to buy anything that you'll ever need and lots of it. BP will probably follow suit of the more typical MMOs in that not only will you have an 'ISK' grind, but you'll also have an xp grind. Perhaps they'll also add a ship module grind to emulate the typical loot whoring that goes on in most other MMOs and that there is less of in EvE outside of plexes. I can see where you're coming from though with respect to the pace of combat in EvE and killing rats. But is killing rats in EvE truly more boring than killing mobs in other MMOs? AI in MMOs is still not terribly 'smart'. I get bored with killing mobs in MMOs in general. We don't really know what the missions will be like in BP. They might be just as boring as EvE's.
People mention PvP, but you don't have a lot of choice of what you can do. As a new player, I can do what in EvE? Trap people? What if I'm a combat oriented type of person who wants to be the guy flying the X-Wings (visual example only). The learning curve is also steep, which many people would rather not have in a hobby if they spend relatively little time involved in that hobby and EvE overcomplicates things. Some people just want to roll up a ship the way they roll up other avatars, equip them simply and go out and kill things. Most people don't want to work the market, do some seriously repetitive and slow thing, like mining or killing pirates, and want to be on equal footing with everyone in the game or have at least the ability to catch up to the veterans. I know in EvE, a veteran can't fly more than one ship, but the strength is in the flexibility and time spent gaining ISK compared to a new (1 month old) guy when ISK is extremely important in the game. We don't know yet if BP will offer flexibility or an easy learning curve or not.
I think EvE is a great game, I really do, but to assume no one will want to play BP is silly. BP sounds like they are aiming for the player types who like WoW styled gameplay ideas with a sci fi picture. I didn't say that BP won't appeal to anyone. I said it would appeal mainly to those who disliked EvE that want to play a space ship game, but I think that there aren't that many people who fall into that category. A sci fi game would be popular, but but more like one in which you can see your avatar... a bit like AO but with a space ship component, or something like Mass Effect. A lot of the other games that had space ship components didn't do very well and now that STO is coming, I think it will be hard for an indep company to break through in the genre.
Back in EvE. Started with BatMUD. Main MMOs have been EvE and DAoC.
I dont agree. People will try out a new game when it comes out if they like the look of it. It doesnt matter how similar to any other game it might be. People just like to have new games to explore and experience. You are saying that everyone who plays EVE has no reason to play any other mmo which has spaceships in it unless it is much better than EVE. Thats just ridiculous! Lots of people will play Black Prophecy because it will be a new setting to explore. It will have different ships, a different backstory and different game mechanics. The Q&A article specifically said they were trying to do something different to EVE and even if that turns out not to be totally true then plenty of people will still play it because it offers a bit of variety on the "space mmo" selection. That depends entirely on how truly popular space ship MMOs are with players. So far, I haven't seen much evidence that they will ever be as popular as fantasy are or any first person types of games, like AO. Plus, this game will have to not only compete against EvE, it will also have to compete against Star Trek. That's again why I think it will be a niche of a niche.
Well we wont ever know how popular space ship mmos are until games companies start making more of them will we. Obviously you havent seen much evidence of people liking that kind of game because EVE is the only decent one of its kind and its not exactly the easist game to get into is it. How can you possibly talk about what is popular and what isnt when there is only ONE decent space ship mmo to judge by? Obviously we need more of them to be made available so people will have more choice. Black Prophecy will help with that and hopefully more variety on the space ship theme will follow.
I have played Crysis. It was a great FPS game. Does that mean I cant enjoy any other FPS game because all games with guns and a first person view are going to be too similar? You personally may have invested a large chunk of your life into playing EVE but not everyone gets so emotionally attached to a game because its just a game. Some people who like EVE will stop playing it and will try out Black Prophecy. Others who dont like EVE will try it out. Some will stay with it. Some will go back to EVE. Some will go back to other games. There you make the assumption that I don't treat EvE as a game. You are wrong about that. However, I see EvE as comfortably occupying a niche and there *are* lots of EvE players who are extremely die hard fans of the game. It would take a hell of a lot to entice people away: an EvE character is not like a character in most other games because not only does it take a lot longer to develope EvE characters but because of how EvE is organised, people who don't stay in NPC corps become very attached to the community. Plus, the rewards vs risk in EvE is addicting, much like gambling...
Yes you see it that way but that doesnt mean thats how it actually is. Thats just how it is for you. You seem to have a habit with making sweeping statements about very large numbers of people that you dont personally know. These "die hard fans" that you refer to.....do you know them all personally? Have you asked every single one of them the question "If another space ship mmo came out and it happened to be a good game would you consider subscribing to it?". No I didnt think so.
Yes EVE can be addictive. So can lots of mmos. WoW has 12 million people addicted to it and yet there is no risk vs reward at all. Even WAR which is a pretty terrible game has roughly 300k subscribers and again there is no risk vs reward. In fact if I was a narrow minded person incapable of seeing the bigger picture I would be really tempted to argue that games with any form of risk vs reward in them are extremely unpopular......but I wont because the only reason less people are playing games like that is because there are hardly any of them available so it would obviously be an unfair statement to make.
The simple fact that EVE is the only vaguely decent mmo set in space in which you can control spaceships means that BP will provide a good alternative place for players to visit. Besides you might be personally fine with spending several years playing ONE computer game but many people want more variety in their gaming experiences. I personally rarely play any mmo for longer than about 4 months before I get tired of repeating the same old stuff and get the urge to play something else. I'm an MMO nomad. EvE is about the only game I've played for several years with DAoC a distant second. I've played most MMOs on the block except for AoC which I won't touch with a 10 ft pole. I will probably try BP, but like with WAR, I probably won't stay. From what I've read about this game, it's the step in the wrong direction.
Thats fine. Some people will stay. Some people wont. Mmos dont need massive numbers of people to stay to make a profit. As long as the cost of staff wages, server maintenance and any other extra costs are covered then they are fine.......and at roughly £10 per month per subscriber even an epic failure of an mmo rakes in more than enough money.
Its not a step in the wrong direction. Its just another option for people to choose from. How can that be a bad thing?
Besides you dont really know enough about the game yet to claim that it is a copycat of EVE so you're not really making any valid points. Why should you leave EVE after playing it for over 2 years? Well.....isnt the fact that you have been playing it for over 2 years a good enough reason? But then if you can play a single game for such a long time then no there is no reason for you to stop playing it. Just carry on with what you were doing if thats what you enjoy doing. Other people might want to play something else though and as you dont know any of those people you cant really speak on their behalf can you. You're trying to make me out as some boring loser who doesn't try any other games. You obviously haven't looked at my sig then. As I've said, I've tried almost all of the P2P MMOs out there except for AoC. I know what forms the EvE crowd after perusing the forums for so long and playing alongside these players. They don't budge much and if they do try out new games, they too, like me, come back to EvE. To break that cycle, it would have to be an amazing game. It would have to be a waaaay above average sci fi game to net even the fence sitters imo, because EvE at least is tried, true and blue. That's why I still claim this game will *probably* be a niche which appeals to those who want a spacegame but don't like EvE. As I mention in my first paragraph, this could be a much smaller amount of players than one might think. Just look at JTL: it should have made it huge... like WoW huge even because it was Star Wars and implemented the most exciting part of Star Wars. But it didn't. Just look at E&B. People I know who beta'ed it said it was pretty good, but it was canned in development. Now there is going to be STO, and Jumpgate Evolution... so BP won't just be competing with EvE... it will have to compete with them. And STO *does* have substantial content differences from EvE, at least as far as they've advertised.
I wasnt trying to make you sound like a loser. Its just that you sound extremely certain about everything you say and yet like must of us you're just a person who plays games. You also make a lot of sweeping generalising statements about large numbers of people that you dont actually know as though its all a fact when actually its only your perception of things. You dont know how people will react to BP when it comes out so there really isnt any point in pretending that you do. You will just have to wait and see along with everyone else.
Sure, they haven't said much in general. But the whole point of my original post was that so far, there isn't anything that sounds ground-breaking enough to make me think this game will do solidly well against EvE, which is for sure the benchmark in this genre as of right now.
Of course EVE is the benchmark for that type of game. Its the ONLY game of its type around. Its nice to see BP and any other games of its type adding a bit of variety.
Besides what does "solidly well" mean anyway? Who cares if it has more or less subscribers than EVE? If it provides any number of people with something to play that they enjoy then who gives a shit if the EVE die hards fanatics carry on playing EVE? If I play BP and find myself liking and subscribing to it then I couldnt care less how well it is doing in relation to EVEs subscription numbers. I wont be thinking about EVE because I will be playing BP (shrugs).
I gotta admit, the graphics are nice. But, this interview brought nothing to the table.
Cue generic MMO interview number 376:
So, what makes it Next Gen?:
Well, we've got good graphics, realtime combat, a background story and ooo we have a mission generator! These are some of the features that we think makes BP innovative!.
Uh, ok, what makes it innovative?:
We have the best AI in the world, the graphics are outstanding and did I mention that we have a mission generator and someone writing the lore? We feel that this thrusts BP into the "Next Gen" category. <now go back to the first question>
I really hope that you guys succeed in BP's launch, but sadly this interview does nothing to promote the game.
Using "buzz words" and injecting no details to back them up is just a poor attempt at marketing, nothing more.
People look at it and say "Isn't this just another Jumpgate Evolution?"
And I'm even beginning to have my doubts about JGE being able to capture a persons interest longer than it takes to install it.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
checked out there website and i didnt see any avatars, just ships, so its EVE online re dux.
Its a game about flying around in spaceships. Of course you cant get out of your ship or run around inside it. No you cant watch your silly little humanoid avatar use the toilet or have a drink in the canteen. Its a space game.
Big balls of rock just decoration? What are all those trees, mountains, hills and rivers etc in other mmos then? Its ALL decoration.
A ship is not an avatar? Of course it bloody well is. An impersonal pile of pixels? You dont think your little dwarf in WoW is actually alive do you? Oh look at him laugh when I type the /laugh emote! Oh now I can make him dance and clap his hands! Oh what fun! Oh he has such personality! Oh now I feel immersed in the game because he seems soooooo life like.
I'm glad the ship is the avatar in this game. Then I wont have to watch retards jumping up and down on the heads of npcs, setting off dance emotes like its the funniest thing they've ever done and generally acting like complete and utter twats.
It doesnt matter if the avatar is a spaceship, a dwarf, a dragon or a cybernetic vacuum cleaner gone rogue. If it fits with what the game is trying to be then its fine. Its just a 3d model made in Maya or 3D Studio Max. This is a game about people flying spaceships around in outerspace so your avatar is a spaceship just like it is in any other FPS space shooter. If you can only play mmos where you dress up your little man in outfits and equip him him with swords and laser guns in a failed attempt at fooling yourself into thinking you are unique then there are plenty of them around for ya. Go and play one of them instead and stop moaning about a game simply because it doesnt fit into your limited short-sighted view of what a game should be.
as i quickly stated below this is EVE re dux, they arent bringing anything new to the mmo world with this game. its ships and space whoopdy do, EVE did that, and with there minimal impact on the massive MMO player base, you would think a new MMO would have actual avatars that walk around and do something other than being a thing in a gooey pod floating in your ship. that type of immersion in my opinion would absolutely dominate the market. I for 1 and so freaking tired of fantasy based MMOs, I tried TR and it was so blah. I say black prophecy needs to add humanoids, or aliens or whatever or get the hell out of the playground we dont want it. If EVE added humanoids I would actually play it, but other than that its frickin boring to fly around shoot stuff and harvest asteroids.
Its a game about flying around in spaceships. Of course you cant get out of your ship or run around inside it. No you cant watch your silly little humanoid avatar use the toilet or have a drink in the canteen. Its a space game.
Big balls of rock just decoration? What are all those trees, mountains, hills and rivers etc in other mmos then? Its ALL decoration.
A ship is not an avatar? Of course it bloody well is. An impersonal pile of pixels? You dont think your little dwarf in WoW is actually alive do you? Oh look at him laugh when I type the /laugh emote! Oh now I can make him dance and clap his hands! Oh what fun! Oh he has such personality! Oh now I feel immersed in the game because he seems soooooo life like.
I'm glad the ship is the avatar in this game. Then I wont have to watch retards jumping up and down on the heads of npcs, setting off dance emotes like its the funniest thing they've ever done and generally acting like complete and utter twats.
It doesnt matter if the avatar is a spaceship, a dwarf, a dragon or a cybernetic vacuum cleaner gone rogue. If it fits with what the game is trying to be then its fine. Its just a 3d model made in Maya or 3D Studio Max. This is a game about people flying spaceships around in outerspace so your avatar is a spaceship just like it is in any other FPS space shooter. If you can only play mmos where you dress up your little man in outfits and equip him him with swords and laser guns in a failed attempt at fooling yourself into thinking you are unique then there are plenty of them around for ya. Go and play one of them instead and stop moaning about a game simply because it doesnt fit into your limited short-sighted view of what a game should be.
as i quickly stated below this is EVE re dux, they arent bringing anything new to the mmo world with this game. its ships and space whoopdy do, EVE did that, and with there minimal impact on the massive MMO player base, you would think a new MMO would have actual avatars that walk around and do something other than being a thing in a gooey pod floating in your ship. that type of immersion in my opinion would absolutely dominate the market. I for 1 and so freaking tired of fantasy based MMOs, I tried TR and it was so blah. I say black prophecy needs to add humanoids, or aliens or whatever or get the hell out of the playground we dont want it. If EVE added humanoids I would actually play it, but other than that its frickin boring to fly around shoot stuff and harvest asteroids.
Fall 2009 = Eve introduces Ambulation