Scroll to the bottom and see CMG is the parent company.
This is all current and fact according to the state of Nevada. If Firesky owns the License and CMG owns Firesky and Gary Whiting is the Director, President and Founder of CMG then I guess he owns that License, right?
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Agricola how can you explain the fact that Firesky is under CME when Firesky was made before CME, one article that decoy posted states that Firesky was made in 2005, while GW claimed it was made in 2007 or 2008.
Agricola how can you explain the fact that Firesky is under CME when Firesky was made before CME, one article that decoy posted states that Firesky was made in 2005, while GW claimed it was made in 2007 or 2008.
I'm not sure what you mean by "The Firesky Name is under CME". However CMG (Cheyenne Mountain Games, not Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment) is an umbrella corp that owns both Firesky and CME, Firesky was either created or acquired in 2007 by CMG (GW). I'm not certain which it was but Firesky did not exist in Nevada before that so maybe it was founded in another state? Perhaps if you could find the records in another state where it was founded you would be kind enough to post them with the information?
But the discussion is about who owns the SGW license, if Firesky does then it's firmly in the grip of Gary Whiting.
EDIT: Notice how CME and CMG were both registered on the same day (9/15/2005) only 30 minutes apart!
EDIT: Just for s***s and giggles heres MMOGULs also!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
It doesn't matter what the articles say... people can misremember, or even lie. The legal truth is in the corporate documentation.
For example, the FireSky website says that it is a subsidiary of CME, when the NV documents clearly show it as a subsidiary of CMG. I'm not saying people are lying--after all, there are so many CMx corps run by the same people that such specifics can be easily confused.
But you have to not take things at face value like "Steve Jobs: I'm healthy", "Bernie Madoff: I'm investing your money", etc. Critical listening/reading folks... you have to take everything said/written by people with vested interests with a grain of salt. Don't presume lying, but don't presume truth either.
Edit:
I just remembered an old (Reagan?) quote: "Trust, but verify". I think that's very appropriate to how one should view anything one reads and hears, whether that be from me, CME, TTH, the major TV networks, or President Obama.
Now here are fewof the links i have about everything "we" have found
http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=5115161&postcount=61 [QUOTE]"So, the short version is, three geeky Stargate fans got the bright idea of making a Stargate MMO, and pushed, prodded and probed until they actually made it happen. Yes, Dorthy, there is an Oz, if you bug enough people to let you make it. Once that ball was rolling, it was astounding how many in this industry really wanted this to happen, and how many doors opened to us." [/QUOTE] http://www.taetechnologies.com/clients.html Look at the News Page after that and I quote [QUOTE]25-January-2006
MGM Interactive and Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment formally announced their agreement to develop Stargate Worlds, an MMO-RPG based on the popular Stargate SG-1 and Stargate Atlantis franchise. View more information at http://www.cheyenneme.com. TAE president Todd Ellering is a founder of Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment.[/QUOTE] So how can GW be the founder if TAE President Todd Ellering founded it.
If you read the first link, it provides a timeline telling how Ellering et. al came up with the idea, then GW funded it. We are not saying that GW is a "founder". We are just saying that by providing the money, he now controls the companies that were set up.
There's nothing wrong or fishy about this: I think it's how all companies that are started with a venture capitalist works. If you provided all the money, wouldn't you want all the say? And like I've said, this is why developers are not their own masters. If they are told to release early, they have to--they've sold their souls to get the project off the ground.
EDIT: Notice how CME and CMG were both registered on the same day (9/15/2005) only 30 minutes apart! EDIT: Just for s***s and giggles heres MMOGULs also!
Hmm well CME got the license in July 05. CME was then formally announced until 25 January 2006. Thats from the people who worked to get the license, as you cn clearly see on www.taetechnologies.com/news.html but Firesky was up and runing by 2005. How is CME then Fireskys parent company if Firesky was made before CME?
Dated 4/17/2008, it says that FireSky was just formed. According to the NV state website, FireSky LLC was formed as a subsidiary of CMG on 10/29/2007, so other than announcing the formation about 6 months after it was legally set up, there's no inconsistency there.
Dated 4/3/2006, it tells the story of the company, though without dates. So everything is relative in time. It starts with Brown, Ellering, and Wofford creating the idea, then pitching it to MGM. Later, GW funded it, and then, it seems, CME was founded. It is unclear when MGM granted the license, but the would be stupid to do it before funding was secured.
Dated 4/17/2008, there's not a lot of detail about the "license" aspect. It clarifies that FireSky will be the publisher of SGW. Perhaps the license was transferred, it's hard to say. But still, as CMG and CME are still single-director (GW) corporations, there's little management difference here. It's probably all set up this way to firewall liabilities.
Note that they are using the term "SNAP" (Social Networks at Play). This is the core concept of MMOGULS iSNAP (incentivized ...). It goes on to say: "FireSky will publish the title as part of its banner of Social Networks at Play (SNAP), online gaming that combines social interaction, economies and game play." Economies? Is that game world economies, or real world? This seems to let slip that MMOGULS is a core concept.
Dated 5/7/2008: OK, I see in this one the mention that FireSky was formed in 2005. My feeling is that YBarra is glossing over the complicated corporate structure. As FireSky in some sense is the same as CME, it's easy to gloss it over.
Note that on http://firesky.com/ under the Press=>Press Releases tab, the 4/17/2008 entry uses the words "FireSky, a new video game publisher..." That would be odd if it had existed since 2005.
Dated 3/24/2008: Ybarra confirms that the company started in "July 2005". If you look at the NV website, you'll see a "name reservation" for CME dated in 7/2005, followed by the actual incorporation on 9/15/2005.
Here's an interesing quote: "And, it's my personal belief that it is ultimately where all the products go. Free-to-play, microtransaction business model, I think, is the winning solution, long-term."
Another quote: "So our original founders came up with the idea of calling it Cheyenne Mountain... Having said all that, our marketing team now is in the process of re-evaluating that, and we're contemplating coming up with a different name for our company." This might be why they are looking to de-emphasize CME for FIreSky.
So, I've gone through all these, and don't see anything that really raises any question about what I've pieced together so far about the corporate structure. In particular, I see only the one mention of FireSky being formed before 2007, but given all the other evidence to the contrary, I think I'll notch that up to YBarra looking to "rebrand".
I don't see why there's any question about what FireSky is. The CME website calls it a subsidiary, and the state of NV shows it as an LLC under the management of CMG. That's pretty solid to me. And since it's a subsidiary, it's under the control of the Board of Directors of CMG, and right now, the NV site shows GW as only director. There's a possibility that is outdated, I must admit, but I'd have to file forms and pay money, I think, to get the updated forms. I may
Originally posted by Agricola1 Originally posted by supremeaaron Agricola how can you explain the fact that Firesky is under CME when Firesky was made before CME, one article that decoy posted states that Firesky was made in 2005, while GW claimed it was made in 2007 or 2008.
I'm not sure what you mean by "The Firesky Name is under CME". However CMG (Cheyenne Mountain Games, not Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment) is an umbrella corp that owns both Firesky and CME, Firesky was either created or acquired in 2007 by CMG (GW). I'm not certain which it was but Firesky did not exist in Nevada before that so maybe it was founded in another state? Perhaps if you could find the records in another state where it was founded you would be kind enough to post them with the information? But the discussion is about who owns the SGW license, if Firesky does then it's firmly in the grip of Gary Whiting.
EDIT: Notice how CME and CMG were both registered on the same day (9/15/2005) only 30 minutes apart! EDIT: Just for s***s and giggles heres MMOGULs also!
Wow, well seeing as the address for MMOGULs is right by my house, I'm thinking about going over there to see WTF the deal is. I wonder if its just an empty office space or what.
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
Originally posted by Zhiroc In that case, you can go to http://www.mymmoguls.com/, and on the right side are the times and places to go and view the MMOGULS pitch! :-P Remember to wear your tinfoil hat though...
aww, all the pitches are in Arizona! I want to go the Henderson office with a tinfoil hat and a picket sign that says "Gary Whiting is a Goa'uld" to take a picture.
And by the way, has anyone notice our president looks a lot like Apophis? Obaphis is taking us over!!!!!!!
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
Comments
Dec0y what you post is not fact and doesn't amount to much in my opinion. I will counter your argument with my "facts",
CMG = Click
Scroll to the bottom and see the players names President and Director.Remember GW is the founder also.
Firesky = Click
Scroll to the bottom and see CMG is the parent company.
This is all current and fact according to the state of Nevada. If Firesky owns the License and CMG owns Firesky and Gary Whiting is the Director, President and Founder of CMG then I guess he owns that License, right?
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Agricola how can you explain the fact that Firesky is under CME when Firesky was made before CME, one article that decoy posted states that Firesky was made in 2005, while GW claimed it was made in 2007 or 2008.
I'm not sure what you mean by "The Firesky Name is under CME". However CMG (Cheyenne Mountain Games, not Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment) is an umbrella corp that owns both Firesky and CME, Firesky was either created or acquired in 2007 by CMG (GW). I'm not certain which it was but Firesky did not exist in Nevada before that so maybe it was founded in another state? Perhaps if you could find the records in another state where it was founded you would be kind enough to post them with the information?
But the discussion is about who owns the SGW license, if Firesky does then it's firmly in the grip of Gary Whiting.
EDIT: Notice how CME and CMG were both registered on the same day (9/15/2005) only 30 minutes apart!
EDIT: Just for s***s and giggles heres MMOGULs also!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
It doesn't matter what the articles say... people can misremember, or even lie. The legal truth is in the corporate documentation.
For example, the FireSky website says that it is a subsidiary of CME, when the NV documents clearly show it as a subsidiary of CMG. I'm not saying people are lying--after all, there are so many CMx corps run by the same people that such specifics can be easily confused.
But you have to not take things at face value like "Steve Jobs: I'm healthy", "Bernie Madoff: I'm investing your money", etc. Critical listening/reading folks... you have to take everything said/written by people with vested interests with a grain of salt. Don't presume lying, but don't presume truth either.
Edit:
I just remembered an old (Reagan?) quote: "Trust, but verify". I think that's very appropriate to how one should view anything one reads and hears, whether that be from me, CME, TTH, the major TV networks, or President Obama.
If you read the first link, it provides a timeline telling how Ellering et. al came up with the idea, then GW funded it. We are not saying that GW is a "founder". We are just saying that by providing the money, he now controls the companies that were set up.
There's nothing wrong or fishy about this: I think it's how all companies that are started with a venture capitalist works. If you provided all the money, wouldn't you want all the say? And like I've said, this is why developers are not their own masters. If they are told to release early, they have to--they've sold their souls to get the project off the ground.
CME in Arizona was also founded on 9/15/2005.
Hmm well CME got the license in July 05. CME was then formally announced until 25 January 2006. Thats from the people who worked to get the license, as you cn clearly see on www.taetechnologies.com/news.html but Firesky was up and runing by 2005. How is CME then Fireskys parent company if Firesky was made before CME?
OK, let's take all those posts in turn:
http://www.massively.com/2008/04/17/theres-a-fire-in-the-sky/
Dated 4/17/2008, it says that FireSky was just formed. According to the NV state website, FireSky LLC was formed as a subsidiary of CMG on 10/29/2007, so other than announcing the formation about 6 months after it was legally set up, there's no inconsistency there.
http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=5115161&postcount=61
Dated 4/3/2006, it tells the story of the company, though without dates. So everything is relative in time. It starts with Brown, Ellering, and Wofford creating the idea, then pitching it to MGM. Later, GW funded it, and then, it seems, CME was founded. It is unclear when MGM granted the license, but the would be stupid to do it before funding was secured.
http://www.taetechnologies.com/news.html
7/1/2005: MGM, Ellering, and Brown announce that SGW will be made. Note that no company names are in use.
(9/15/2005: CME and CMG legally formed in NV)
1/25/2006: MGM and CME formally announce the agreement to produce SGW
(BTW, note that ItzYourMall is listed as a client through the client link.)
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/30228/FireSky-snaps-up-Stargate-licence
Dated 4/17/2008, there's not a lot of detail about the "license" aspect. It clarifies that FireSky will be the publisher of SGW. Perhaps the license was transferred, it's hard to say. But still, as CMG and CME are still single-director (GW) corporations, there's little management difference here. It's probably all set up this way to firewall liabilities.
Note that they are using the term "SNAP" (Social Networks at Play). This is the core concept of MMOGULS iSNAP (incentivized ...). It goes on to say: "FireSky will publish the title as part of its banner of Social Networks at Play (SNAP), online gaming that combines social interaction, economies and game play." Economies? Is that game world economies, or real world? This seems to let slip that MMOGULS is a core concept.
http://209.85.129.132/search?q=cache:6MCohaVhrokJ:www.2008.loginconference.com/materials/Ybarra%2520-%2520Let%27s%2520Go%2520to%2520Hollywood.ppt+firesky+SGW+license&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk
Dated 5/7/2008: OK, I see in this one the mention that FireSky was formed in 2005. My feeling is that YBarra is glossing over the complicated corporate structure. As FireSky in some sense is the same as CME, it's easy to gloss it over.
Note that on http://firesky.com/ under the Press=>Press Releases tab, the 4/17/2008 entry uses the words "FireSky, a new video game publisher..." That would be odd if it had existed since 2005.
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3587/y_control_joe_ybarra_on_cheyenne_.php
Dated 3/24/2008: Ybarra confirms that the company started in "July 2005". If you look at the NV website, you'll see a "name reservation" for CME dated in 7/2005, followed by the actual incorporation on 9/15/2005.
Here's an interesing quote: "And, it's my personal belief that it is ultimately where all the products go. Free-to-play, microtransaction business model, I think, is the winning solution, long-term."
Another quote: "So our original founders came up with the idea of calling it Cheyenne Mountain... Having said all that, our marketing team now is in the process of re-evaluating that, and we're contemplating coming up with a different name for our company." This might be why they are looking to de-emphasize CME for FIreSky.
So, I've gone through all these, and don't see anything that really raises any question about what I've pieced together so far about the corporate structure. In particular, I see only the one mention of FireSky being formed before 2007, but given all the other evidence to the contrary, I think I'll notch that up to YBarra looking to "rebrand".
I don't see why there's any question about what FireSky is. The CME website calls it a subsidiary, and the state of NV shows it as an LLC under the management of CMG. That's pretty solid to me. And since it's a subsidiary, it's under the control of the Board of Directors of CMG, and right now, the NV site shows GW as only director. There's a possibility that is outdated, I must admit, but I'd have to file forms and pay money, I think, to get the updated forms. I may
Now, about MMOGULS: Go to http://www.mymmoguls.com/contact and note their street address:
4140 E. Baseline Road, Suite 101
Mesa, AZ 85206
Now go to CME's site: http://www.cheyenneme.com/contact/ and note their address:
4140 East Baseline Rd, Suite 208
Mesa, Arizona 85206
One floor up? You can't even claim plausible deniability with that and all the corporate structures that point to GW
I'm not sure what you mean by "The Firesky Name is under CME". However CMG (Cheyenne Mountain Games, not Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment) is an umbrella corp that owns both Firesky and CME, Firesky was either created or acquired in 2007 by CMG (GW). I'm not certain which it was but Firesky did not exist in Nevada before that so maybe it was founded in another state? Perhaps if you could find the records in another state where it was founded you would be kind enough to post them with the information?
But the discussion is about who owns the SGW license, if Firesky does then it's firmly in the grip of Gary Whiting.
EDIT: Notice how CME and CMG were both registered on the same day (9/15/2005) only 30 minutes apart!
EDIT: Just for s***s and giggles heres MMOGULs also!
Wow, well seeing as the address for MMOGULs is right by my house, I'm thinking about going over there to see WTF the deal is. I wonder if its just an empty office space or what.
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
In that case, you can go to http://www.mymmoguls.com/, and on the right side are the times and places to go and view the MMOGULS pitch! :-P
Remember to wear your tinfoil hat though...
aww, all the pitches are in Arizona! I want to go the Henderson office with a tinfoil hat and a picket sign that says "Gary Whiting is a Goa'uld" to take a picture.
And by the way, has anyone notice our president looks a lot like Apophis? Obaphis is taking us over!!!!!!!
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
Oh, sorry, I thought you meant you were near CME in AZ... Ah well.