Originally posted by declaredemer The risk is well worth it, though.
It's really only worth it if they make money.
Once upon a time there was a company called Flagship. They made a game. It had some problems and the Dev that was the CEO of the company couldn't run a company. The company died and they lost their games that they built. Games that cost a lot of time and money. It was a risk and they lost it all. Granted they made lots of mistakes on the way, but if you can make money and not have to take that same risk then whats the reason to go forth with the risk (speaking from people who want to make money.)
Posts like these continue to spring up, but neglect a few sad truths. We are the minority. I don't mean those that want a better game, I mean every person on this forum. The majority of MMO players, the ones that spend the majority of the money, will never see these posts. The people have spoken, and WoW is what they want. Stop this mumbo jumbo garbage of "companies won't make money doing this or that..." They are making money; they are selling. You want something new, as do I. Hell, most of the people here want something new. We just don't know what. You say to bring back the 3 Cs, but how? If you can't quantify it, developers cannot put it into a game, it's as simple as that. Stop saying you want something better, and start saying EXACTLY what you want. Your heart and mind are in the right place, and I am with you. And just to add: I would LOVE to see dynamic questing and mob populations, something that actually responded to my impact on the game. That would draw me in, that would be a Creative aspect to incorporate into a next-gen MMO.
I think the MMO community (and I mean pretty much all players) is hungry for some real innovation. It does have to be the right kind though. If a really well-made and innovative game came along though, I think it could topple WoW without too much trouble. I think the burnout people can easily get from current MMOs and how almost all of them have very similar mechanics overall are both indicative of the hunger in the market. It's an open question when a company is going to be able to successfully tap into that hunger though.
I have to say I agree that the market is interested in something innovative, creative, and different. Something different in terms of going from text-based to 2D and from 2D to 3D.
My theory is that innovation needs to be in these areas:
Exploration
Customization
Player Tools
Do you have any ideas about where innovation should take place.
I am starting to think that the real innovation would be polish. Even mediocre games get outstanding reviews if they are polished - that is to say - complete, and for the most part, game-breaking glitch free. That's what I want. I am tired of gimmicks; give me polish.
Spend the coin, get what you have done right. Through that process I am sure that the deveolpers would stumble across something marvelous. Spending that much time and effort getting one thing so right that it hurts would surely lead to, "If we made this part as well as this one...they would work seemlessly together and offer a truely great gaming experience."
I would love to see a worthwhile exploration type innovation though, I agree with you there. Being rewarded for exploring beautiful landscapes is something I have not felt. I would like that, I must say. This brings up graphics though...because I would not like to explore WoW (quality) graphics. I used them as an example of low polygon count and low texture detail. I would explore vivid, life-full (opposed to lifeless) landscapes full of trees, shrubs, lighting effects, bugs, animals, and various creatures.
I would love to see a worthwhile exploration type innovation though, I agree with you there. Being rewarded for exploring beautiful landscapes is something I have not felt. I would like that, I must say. This brings up graphics though...because I would not like to explore WoW (quality) graphics. I used them as an example of low polygon count and low texture detail. I would explore vivid, life-full (opposed to lifeless) landscapes full of trees, shrubs, lighting effects, bugs, animals, and various creatures.
I think you point is literally, no pun intended, on the money. We want innovation in the realm of exploration. We want to explore bizarre and astonishing worlds. I think you are right that it is costly to do this, and especially risky if it does not work. The rewards, though, at least I think so, would be enormous.
Innovation in the area of exploration, however, would not be enough.
People want a new, different, innovative kind of MMORPG experience.
I would like to see an RTS, RPG, FPS type sci-fi mmo. RTS for city building, RPG for avatar, FPS for vehicle/ship. If they're not gonna come up with anything new, then at least combine what we have to push the industy forward some. I guess.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
I have to say I agree that the market is interested in something innovative, creative, and different. Something different in terms of going from text-based to 2D and from 2D to 3D.
My theory is that innovation needs to be in these areas:
Exploration Customization Player Tools
Do you have any ideas about where innovation should take place.
Perhaps you should check out lego universe. Seriously. Don't ask for creativity and than ignore possibilities just because you don't think the game is for you. And by you I don't mean the OP, I mean anyone.
Those three things you just listed basically define lego universe. And by the way this is the one big game in the future I am looking forward to. But I doubt many people on this forum will be open minded enough for a true sandbox experience. They say they want it but I think they fear it.
I think the OP has some good points. Furthermore, I don't think people (and by people I mean developers and subsequent investors) realize how desperate and the MMO crowd is. Honestly, 90% of the gamers out there will try a new MMO simply for the sake of trying it and seeing what it's like. I would say about half of them will like it. And of that half probably another half will resub.
I would love to see a worthwhile exploration type innovation though, I agree with you there. Being rewarded for exploring beautiful landscapes is something I have not felt. I would like that, I must say. This brings up graphics though...because I would not like to explore WoW (quality) graphics. I used them as an example of low polygon count and low texture detail. I would explore vivid, life-full (opposed to lifeless) landscapes full of trees, shrubs, lighting effects, bugs, animals, and various creatures.
I think you point is literally, no pun intended, on the money. We want innovation in the realm of exploration. We want to explore bizarre and astonishing worlds. I think you are right that it is costly to do this, and especially risky if it does not work. The rewards, though, at least I think so, would be enormous.
Innovation in the area of exploration, however, would not be enough.
People want a new, different, innovative kind of MMORPG experience.
I agree whole heartedly, but I too suffer from the common "I want something but can't quite explain exactly what it is" syndrome. I want more than anything to explain exactly what would make me want to play a game. Maybe some brainstorming would help...
Fluidity - Movements, actions, attacks, spells, and all effects should be fluid. Not just because it looks good, but because it immerses me.
Exploration - Make it worth while! Don't give me some crappy item on top of a mountain, or a "Tome Unlock." If I spent the last 30 minutes running, jumping, swimming, and climbing to get to this point, reward me for my time.
Mobs - Make them difficult to just stand and fight against. Make me move, make me try, not too hard, but hard enough to make it feel like I accomplished something. And don't punish me with long down times. Make mobs hard enough to where they could nearly kill me, but make it so that I can get back into the action quickly. Also, make them dynamic! Factions are nice, but I mean really dynamic. I wouldn't mind if they thinned out after being hunted so much, but grew stronger because they had been the one that survived, or potentially used more "pack-like" tendancies.
Questing - Look, I know it's easy to create a set of rules all objects abide by when programming. Break the mold. Make quests that have many interactable parts, where if I had to carry something, you could see me carry it. Quests that would impact the game! Make me feel important. I know there will be thousands of "mes," but it it worth it to you to make us feel like we are doing something to change the game. If I go to steal an item from an enemy encampment, have that item weaken the mobs for a duration, turn them hostile if they were friendly, perhaps even make them want to seek revenge and steal/interact with other nearby mobs or encampments.
There are a lot more things to be added, but these are what I can quanitfy right now.
I would love to see a worthwhile exploration type innovation though, I agree with you there. Being rewarded for exploring beautiful landscapes is something I have not felt. I would like that, I must say. This brings up graphics though...because I would not like to explore WoW (quality) graphics. I used them as an example of low polygon count and low texture detail. I would explore vivid, life-full (opposed to lifeless) landscapes full of trees, shrubs, lighting effects, bugs, animals, and various creatures.
I think you point is literally, no pun intended, on the money. We want innovation in the realm of exploration. We want to explore bizarre and astonishing worlds. I think you are right that it is costly to do this, and especially risky if it does not work. The rewards, though, at least I think so, would be enormous.
Innovation in the area of exploration, however, would not be enough.
People want a new, different, innovative kind of MMORPG experience.
I agree whole heartedly, but I too suffer from the common "I want something but can't quite explain exactly what it is" syndrome. I want more than anything to explain exactly what would make me want to play a game. Maybe some brainstorming would help...
Fluidity - Movements, actions, attacks, spells, and all effects should be fluid. Not just because it looks good, but because it immerses me.
Exploration - Make it worth while! Don't give me some crappy item on top of a mountain, or a "Tome Unlock." If I spent the last 30 minutes running, jumping, swimming, and climbing to get to this point, reward me for my time.
Mobs - Make them difficult to just stand and fight against. Make me move, make me try, not too hard, but hard enough to make it feel like I accomplished something. And don't punish me with long down times. Make mobs hard enough to where they could nearly kill me, but make it so that I can get back into the action quickly. Also, make them dynamic! Factions are nice, but I mean really dynamic. I wouldn't mind if they thinned out after being hunted so much, but grew stronger because they had been the one that survived, or potentially used more "pack-like" tendancies.
Questing - Look, I know it's easy to create a set of rules all objects abide by when programming. Break the mold. Make quests that have many interactable parts, where if I had to carry something, you could see me carry it. Quests that would impact the game! Make me feel important. I know there will be thousands of "mes," but it it worth it to you to make us feel like we are doing something to change the game. If I go to steal an item from an enemy encampment, have that item weaken the mobs for a duration, turn them hostile if they were friendly, perhaps even make them want to seek revenge and steal/interact with other nearby mobs or encampments.
There are a lot more things to be added, but these are what I can quanitfy right now.
As far as combat goes, what you are essentially reaching for is more realistic behaviors. Sure, it is a fantasy world, but that doesn't mean that if you are killing a guy 30 yards from his friend, then his friend will just sit there and do nothing. Or that if you attack lookout guards, they won't do their job and announce the attack. It would be great if you could approach an enemy encampment, and they whole encampment would respond realistically to your presense. If there are 30+ guys there and you have to take them out solo, then make it so that you can handle them all at once. Or make it so that you can realistically split them up (or that you have to group) so that you can handle them all at once. I am bored of the same insane stupidity in the npcs. This is not that hard to fix either, with some effort. (I'd also like to see a solid move away from the whole one person tanks everything dynamic for groups. Let's make it a bit more true to life, shall we?)
I'd like to see dynamically appearing/completing quests. Did you go out and kill a bandit leader on your own? Then if you show up in town and the local militia officer tries to give you the quest, you should be able to respond "Been there, done that." Sneak up on some bad guys plotting an attack or other evil? Then you should be able to get a quest right there when you overhear their plot. The quests shouldn't necessarily have just one solution either, but multiple ways to resolve letting you choose what path to take (maybe you decide to join up with the bandits, or maybe you stop them there, or maybe you go get some help from the local militia -- and other people can decide to help out if they are nearby, and if you decided to help the bandits, other people can get a dynamic quest to stop them AND you). Heck, I'd love to play a game where each time you leveled up, the quests you got were different. Not because you picked a different class or the like, but because the quests are dynamically generated by the game. This would not only greatly add to replayablity, but if you can stumble across quests or things to otherwise interact with, then you reward exploration (maybe you stumble across a grove where some evil spellcasters are raising an army of the dead, and you decide to put a stop to it). What would help this is truly massive worlds though, bigger than WoW, I think. Perhaps when you start out you just are placed in one of dozens of small villages, that are all similar in a number of ways, but you have unique local geography. I readily admit this would be far from easy to make, but it would be a massive leap in immersion if done reasonably well (and it would reward exploration tremendously).
I'm not too big on crafting systems (what I said above is much more important to me), but I'd like a crafting system when you decide what mats you are going to use and what item you are trying to make. Based on your skill, perhaps some techniques you've learned, the mats, and the item type you then generate an item. That said, I'd like to play an MMO that isn't anywhere near as gear-based as WoW is, but crafting or finding or retreiving a truly epic artifact should mean something. So some magical items matter, but they shouldn't entirely make or break your character, imho.
Anyhow, those are some of my thoughts. Oh, and I really loved how in FFXI your party could generate super-attacks -- each attack had an element associated with it, and by combining those elements in the right order, timed right, you did extra damage. That sort of thing is always cool and is a good way to encourage teamwork.
Perhaps we need innovation insofar that players have the opportunity to design areas of a world; certain players can design dungeons (and rewards); and even play as player-gods.
It would be required to work within certain boundaries, but I think it is
player-empowerment,
player-participation
in the content, direction, expansion, and development of MMORPGs that we need.
You know what cry me a damn river. That goes for anyone out there that thinks like th OP. Someone failed to entertain you!? Boo fricken Hoo. What a bunch of self entitled babies. Grow a set for crying out loud and do something you DO like to do.
You know what cry me a damn river. That goes for anyone out there that thinks like th OP. Someone failed to entertain you!? Boo fricken Hoo. What a bunch of self entitled babies. Grow a set for crying out loud and do something you DO like to do.
I admire your consistency, but I do not envy your deep angst (topics by the poster include "if you don't like the game, LEAVE," which is something I totally agree with because not leaving tells developers that you do like the game, or that you are at least dumb enough to keep subscribed to it).
On the contrary, no one is "crying." You are crying about our thinking, and communicating, about the lack of creativity, innovation, and "newness" in the MMORPG industry. We want, indeed expect, a new kind-of MMORPG experience. When we play a "new" MMORPG and the gameplay, content, features, and so forth are substantially similar to all MMORPGs --linear, predictable, no challenge, no community, no exciting content-- we are not "enteratained." We actually have, as self-described "immersion gamers," higher standards, greater expectations, and even more (not less) loyalty to this industry. You probably do not understand us, which is why you fear and are angry with us (telling us to cry a "damn river" and to "grow a set for crying out loud").
And, Sir, I have taken your advice: I have left those games that I dislike. I have not, however, totally abandoned the industry, which is something that I think you are saying . . . in your way of saying. And I do not plan to leave the industry for a very, very long time. I have hope. Until then, you are just stuck with me . . . and people like me that want something
new
innovative
deeper
different
challenging
But I think I speak for all of us when I say we make no apologies for it.
You know what cry me a damn river. That goes for anyone out there that thinks like th OP. Someone failed to entertain you!? Boo fricken Hoo. What a bunch of self entitled babies. Grow a set for crying out loud and do something you DO like to do.
This thread is for ideas - not mindless haters like yourself, that will suck up anything a company/dev will spoonfeed you. And bravo to the OP, for responding to this douchebag more maturely than I have lol.
Perhaps we need innovation insofar that players have the opportunity to design areas of a world; certain players can design dungeons (and rewards); and even play as player-gods.
It would be required to work within certain boundaries, but I think it is
player-empowerment, player-participation
in the content, direction, expansion, and development of MMORPGs that we need.
Think of all those networking sites that alert you to what all people on your friends list are doing...
Why not incorporate that into an MMO. Add filters, to select who and what you want to see. Enter an area with mobs roaming around...show other players in a pop up that are within that area, show if they have the same quests as you, as well as their progress on those quests, and if they are in/out of combat or looking for help, healing, etc, and offer an option to click the button to insta-group.
We see fragments of these systems in games now, WAR being the best example so far with open groups and a pop up to show group in the area. However, it should show individual players, closest to level, maybe even go so far as to show classes that would compliment your own. Make it seemless...make it AUTOMATIC. Smooth, polished, and automatic.
This would help bring people together. We want to play together, but don't like to have to spam for a group, go through menus, find eachother, wait for combat to end (in some games) then not know where we all are as far as progress on a quest. We just want to play together to accomplish a goal, so help us do that.
You know what cry me a damn river. That goes for anyone out there that thinks like th OP. Someone failed to entertain you!? Boo fricken Hoo. What a bunch of self entitled babies. Grow a set for crying out loud and do something you DO like to do.
I admire your consistency, but I do not envy your deep angst (topics by the poster include "if you don't like the game, LEAVE," which is something I totally agree with because not leaving tells developers that you do like the game, or that you are at least dumb enough to keep subscribed to it).
On the contrary, no one is "crying." You are crying about our thinking, and communicating, about the lack of creativity, innovation, and "newness" in the MMORPG industry. We want, indeed expect, a new kind-of MMORPG experience. When we play a "new" MMORPG and the gameplay, content, features, and so forth are substantially similar to all MMORPGs --linear, predictable, no challenge, no community, no exciting content-- we are not "enteratained." We actually have, as self-described "immersion gamers," higher standards, greater expectations, and even more (not less) loyalty to this industry. You probably do not understand us, which is why you fear and are angry with us (telling us to cry a "damn river" and to "grow a set for crying out loud").
And, Sir, I have taken your advice: I have left those games that I dislike. I have not, however, totally abandoned the industry, which is something that I think you are saying . . . in your way of saying. And I do not plan to leave the industry for a very, very long time. I have hope. Until then, you are just stuck with me . . . and people like me that want something
new
innovative
deeper
different
challenging
But I think I speak for all of us when I say we make no apologies for it.
Point well made. I was in a pretty bad mood yesterday and was reading alot of self entitled posts. I'll admit I skipped alot of reading on this one to just flare up because of other posts I was angry about. Sorry to be a black mark on this nice post. I didn't realize this wasn't a self entitlement post.
Regardless, I do like the exchange of ideas. I think what you are asking for is being given as best as possible by the companies trying to put out MMO's. I really don't think that it is for the lack of trying that we end up with what we do. Unfortunately alot of innovation is rejected and those games don't even live long enough to realize any kind of potential. Something like Auto Assault could have made it in the days when Anarchy Online came out. The same way that Anarchy Online wouldn't make it comming on the market today.
It seems the era to do new, inovative and creative games has kind of passed in favor of an era where games are easy to understand and can appeal to a broad audience. The days of the "immersion gamers" was a past thing because it had alot to with what exactly it was to be a PC gamer at the time. This is not to say it couldn't happen again, I am mearly pointing out that we did, in fact, have a time when we were the catered audience.
There is a great deal of people who discovered PC gaming through the avenue of World of Warcraft. So this is what this new breed of PC gamer now expects from the MMO genre. It is hard to see this changing soon and by the attempts made recently, such as Tabula Rasa, it doesn't seem like the genre is quite ready for a "new breed" of MMO to eclipse the old ways. Tabula Rasa only barely broke the mold, it was really quite similar to the mainstream MMO's today.
Comments
It's really only worth it if they make money.
Once upon a time there was a company called Flagship. They made a game. It had some problems and the Dev that was the CEO of the company couldn't run a company. The company died and they lost their games that they built. Games that cost a lot of time and money. It was a risk and they lost it all. Granted they made lots of mistakes on the way, but if you can make money and not have to take that same risk then whats the reason to go forth with the risk (speaking from people who want to make money.)
Make games you want to play.
http://www.youtube.com/user/RavikAztar
Flagship...Ex Warcraft Devs that made Hellgate London right? I was sad to see that die such a painful death
A dyslexic man walked into a bra.
I think the MMO community (and I mean pretty much all players) is hungry for some real innovation. It does have to be the right kind though. If a really well-made and innovative game came along though, I think it could topple WoW without too much trouble. I think the burnout people can easily get from current MMOs and how almost all of them have very similar mechanics overall are both indicative of the hunger in the market. It's an open question when a company is going to be able to successfully tap into that hunger though.
I have to say I agree that the market is interested in something innovative, creative, and different. Something different in terms of going from text-based to 2D and from 2D to 3D.
My theory is that innovation needs to be in these areas:
Do you have any ideas about where innovation should take place.
I am starting to think that the real innovation would be polish. Even mediocre games get outstanding reviews if they are polished - that is to say - complete, and for the most part, game-breaking glitch free. That's what I want. I am tired of gimmicks; give me polish.
Spend the coin, get what you have done right. Through that process I am sure that the deveolpers would stumble across something marvelous. Spending that much time and effort getting one thing so right that it hurts would surely lead to, "If we made this part as well as this one...they would work seemlessly together and offer a truely great gaming experience."
I would love to see a worthwhile exploration type innovation though, I agree with you there. Being rewarded for exploring beautiful landscapes is something I have not felt. I would like that, I must say. This brings up graphics though...because I would not like to explore WoW (quality) graphics. I used them as an example of low polygon count and low texture detail. I would explore vivid, life-full (opposed to lifeless) landscapes full of trees, shrubs, lighting effects, bugs, animals, and various creatures.
A dyslexic man walked into a bra.
I think you point is literally, no pun intended, on the money. We want innovation in the realm of exploration. We want to explore bizarre and astonishing worlds. I think you are right that it is costly to do this, and especially risky if it does not work. The rewards, though, at least I think so, would be enormous.
Innovation in the area of exploration, however, would not be enough.
People want a new, different, innovative kind of MMORPG experience.
I would like to see an RTS, RPG, FPS type sci-fi mmo. RTS for city building, RPG for avatar, FPS for vehicle/ship. If they're not gonna come up with anything new, then at least combine what we have to push the industy forward some. I guess.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Perhaps you should check out lego universe. Seriously. Don't ask for creativity and than ignore possibilities just because you don't think the game is for you. And by you I don't mean the OP, I mean anyone.
Those three things you just listed basically define lego universe. And by the way this is the one big game in the future I am looking forward to. But I doubt many people on this forum will be open minded enough for a true sandbox experience. They say they want it but I think they fear it.
I think the OP has some good points. Furthermore, I don't think people (and by people I mean developers and subsequent investors) realize how desperate and the MMO crowd is. Honestly, 90% of the gamers out there will try a new MMO simply for the sake of trying it and seeing what it's like. I would say about half of them will like it. And of that half probably another half will resub.
To end with a quote (albeit modified):
"If you develop it, they will come."
(thank you Field of Dreams)
I think you point is literally, no pun intended, on the money. We want innovation in the realm of exploration. We want to explore bizarre and astonishing worlds. I think you are right that it is costly to do this, and especially risky if it does not work. The rewards, though, at least I think so, would be enormous.
Innovation in the area of exploration, however, would not be enough.
People want a new, different, innovative kind of MMORPG experience.
I agree whole heartedly, but I too suffer from the common "I want something but can't quite explain exactly what it is" syndrome. I want more than anything to explain exactly what would make me want to play a game. Maybe some brainstorming would help...
Fluidity - Movements, actions, attacks, spells, and all effects should be fluid. Not just because it looks good, but because it immerses me.
Exploration - Make it worth while! Don't give me some crappy item on top of a mountain, or a "Tome Unlock." If I spent the last 30 minutes running, jumping, swimming, and climbing to get to this point, reward me for my time.
Mobs - Make them difficult to just stand and fight against. Make me move, make me try, not too hard, but hard enough to make it feel like I accomplished something. And don't punish me with long down times. Make mobs hard enough to where they could nearly kill me, but make it so that I can get back into the action quickly. Also, make them dynamic! Factions are nice, but I mean really dynamic. I wouldn't mind if they thinned out after being hunted so much, but grew stronger because they had been the one that survived, or potentially used more "pack-like" tendancies.
Questing - Look, I know it's easy to create a set of rules all objects abide by when programming. Break the mold. Make quests that have many interactable parts, where if I had to carry something, you could see me carry it. Quests that would impact the game! Make me feel important. I know there will be thousands of "mes," but it it worth it to you to make us feel like we are doing something to change the game. If I go to steal an item from an enemy encampment, have that item weaken the mobs for a duration, turn them hostile if they were friendly, perhaps even make them want to seek revenge and steal/interact with other nearby mobs or encampments.
There are a lot more things to be added, but these are what I can quanitfy right now.
A dyslexic man walked into a bra.
I think you point is literally, no pun intended, on the money. We want innovation in the realm of exploration. We want to explore bizarre and astonishing worlds. I think you are right that it is costly to do this, and especially risky if it does not work. The rewards, though, at least I think so, would be enormous.
Innovation in the area of exploration, however, would not be enough.
People want a new, different, innovative kind of MMORPG experience.
I agree whole heartedly, but I too suffer from the common "I want something but can't quite explain exactly what it is" syndrome. I want more than anything to explain exactly what would make me want to play a game. Maybe some brainstorming would help...
Fluidity - Movements, actions, attacks, spells, and all effects should be fluid. Not just because it looks good, but because it immerses me.
Exploration - Make it worth while! Don't give me some crappy item on top of a mountain, or a "Tome Unlock." If I spent the last 30 minutes running, jumping, swimming, and climbing to get to this point, reward me for my time.
Mobs - Make them difficult to just stand and fight against. Make me move, make me try, not too hard, but hard enough to make it feel like I accomplished something. And don't punish me with long down times. Make mobs hard enough to where they could nearly kill me, but make it so that I can get back into the action quickly. Also, make them dynamic! Factions are nice, but I mean really dynamic. I wouldn't mind if they thinned out after being hunted so much, but grew stronger because they had been the one that survived, or potentially used more "pack-like" tendancies.
Questing - Look, I know it's easy to create a set of rules all objects abide by when programming. Break the mold. Make quests that have many interactable parts, where if I had to carry something, you could see me carry it. Quests that would impact the game! Make me feel important. I know there will be thousands of "mes," but it it worth it to you to make us feel like we are doing something to change the game. If I go to steal an item from an enemy encampment, have that item weaken the mobs for a duration, turn them hostile if they were friendly, perhaps even make them want to seek revenge and steal/interact with other nearby mobs or encampments.
There are a lot more things to be added, but these are what I can quanitfy right now.
As far as combat goes, what you are essentially reaching for is more realistic behaviors. Sure, it is a fantasy world, but that doesn't mean that if you are killing a guy 30 yards from his friend, then his friend will just sit there and do nothing. Or that if you attack lookout guards, they won't do their job and announce the attack. It would be great if you could approach an enemy encampment, and they whole encampment would respond realistically to your presense. If there are 30+ guys there and you have to take them out solo, then make it so that you can handle them all at once. Or make it so that you can realistically split them up (or that you have to group) so that you can handle them all at once. I am bored of the same insane stupidity in the npcs. This is not that hard to fix either, with some effort. (I'd also like to see a solid move away from the whole one person tanks everything dynamic for groups. Let's make it a bit more true to life, shall we?)
I'd like to see dynamically appearing/completing quests. Did you go out and kill a bandit leader on your own? Then if you show up in town and the local militia officer tries to give you the quest, you should be able to respond "Been there, done that." Sneak up on some bad guys plotting an attack or other evil? Then you should be able to get a quest right there when you overhear their plot. The quests shouldn't necessarily have just one solution either, but multiple ways to resolve letting you choose what path to take (maybe you decide to join up with the bandits, or maybe you stop them there, or maybe you go get some help from the local militia -- and other people can decide to help out if they are nearby, and if you decided to help the bandits, other people can get a dynamic quest to stop them AND you). Heck, I'd love to play a game where each time you leveled up, the quests you got were different. Not because you picked a different class or the like, but because the quests are dynamically generated by the game. This would not only greatly add to replayablity, but if you can stumble across quests or things to otherwise interact with, then you reward exploration (maybe you stumble across a grove where some evil spellcasters are raising an army of the dead, and you decide to put a stop to it). What would help this is truly massive worlds though, bigger than WoW, I think. Perhaps when you start out you just are placed in one of dozens of small villages, that are all similar in a number of ways, but you have unique local geography. I readily admit this would be far from easy to make, but it would be a massive leap in immersion if done reasonably well (and it would reward exploration tremendously).
I'm not too big on crafting systems (what I said above is much more important to me), but I'd like a crafting system when you decide what mats you are going to use and what item you are trying to make. Based on your skill, perhaps some techniques you've learned, the mats, and the item type you then generate an item. That said, I'd like to play an MMO that isn't anywhere near as gear-based as WoW is, but crafting or finding or retreiving a truly epic artifact should mean something. So some magical items matter, but they shouldn't entirely make or break your character, imho.
Anyhow, those are some of my thoughts. Oh, and I really loved how in FFXI your party could generate super-attacks -- each attack had an element associated with it, and by combining those elements in the right order, timed right, you did extra damage. That sort of thing is always cool and is a good way to encourage teamwork.
Perhaps we need innovation insofar that players have the opportunity to design areas of a world; certain players can design dungeons (and rewards); and even play as player-gods.
It would be required to work within certain boundaries, but I think it is
in the content, direction, expansion, and development of MMORPGs that we need.
You know what cry me a damn river. That goes for anyone out there that thinks like th OP. Someone failed to entertain you!? Boo fricken Hoo. What a bunch of self entitled babies. Grow a set for crying out loud and do something you DO like to do.
I admire your consistency, but I do not envy your deep angst (topics by the poster include "if you don't like the game, LEAVE," which is something I totally agree with because not leaving tells developers that you do like the game, or that you are at least dumb enough to keep subscribed to it).
On the contrary, no one is "crying." You are crying about our thinking, and communicating, about the lack of creativity, innovation, and "newness" in the MMORPG industry. We want, indeed expect, a new kind-of MMORPG experience. When we play a "new" MMORPG and the gameplay, content, features, and so forth are substantially similar to all MMORPGs --linear, predictable, no challenge, no community, no exciting content-- we are not "enteratained." We actually have, as self-described "immersion gamers," higher standards, greater expectations, and even more (not less) loyalty to this industry. You probably do not understand us, which is why you fear and are angry with us (telling us to cry a "damn river" and to "grow a set for crying out loud").
And, Sir, I have taken your advice: I have left those games that I dislike. I have not, however, totally abandoned the industry, which is something that I think you are saying . . . in your way of saying. And I do not plan to leave the industry for a very, very long time. I have hope. Until then, you are just stuck with me . . . and people like me that want something
But I think I speak for all of us when I say we make no apologies for it.
This thread is for ideas - not mindless haters like yourself, that will suck up anything a company/dev will spoonfeed you. And bravo to the OP, for responding to this douchebag more maturely than I have lol.
Check out Lego Universe
I have another idea:
Think of all those networking sites that alert you to what all people on your friends list are doing...
Why not incorporate that into an MMO. Add filters, to select who and what you want to see. Enter an area with mobs roaming around...show other players in a pop up that are within that area, show if they have the same quests as you, as well as their progress on those quests, and if they are in/out of combat or looking for help, healing, etc, and offer an option to click the button to insta-group.
We see fragments of these systems in games now, WAR being the best example so far with open groups and a pop up to show group in the area. However, it should show individual players, closest to level, maybe even go so far as to show classes that would compliment your own. Make it seemless...make it AUTOMATIC. Smooth, polished, and automatic.
This would help bring people together. We want to play together, but don't like to have to spam for a group, go through menus, find eachother, wait for combat to end (in some games) then not know where we all are as far as progress on a quest. We just want to play together to accomplish a goal, so help us do that.
A dyslexic man walked into a bra.
I admire your consistency, but I do not envy your deep angst (topics by the poster include "if you don't like the game, LEAVE," which is something I totally agree with because not leaving tells developers that you do like the game, or that you are at least dumb enough to keep subscribed to it).
On the contrary, no one is "crying." You are crying about our thinking, and communicating, about the lack of creativity, innovation, and "newness" in the MMORPG industry. We want, indeed expect, a new kind-of MMORPG experience. When we play a "new" MMORPG and the gameplay, content, features, and so forth are substantially similar to all MMORPGs --linear, predictable, no challenge, no community, no exciting content-- we are not "enteratained." We actually have, as self-described "immersion gamers," higher standards, greater expectations, and even more (not less) loyalty to this industry. You probably do not understand us, which is why you fear and are angry with us (telling us to cry a "damn river" and to "grow a set for crying out loud").
And, Sir, I have taken your advice: I have left those games that I dislike. I have not, however, totally abandoned the industry, which is something that I think you are saying . . . in your way of saying. And I do not plan to leave the industry for a very, very long time. I have hope. Until then, you are just stuck with me . . . and people like me that want something
But I think I speak for all of us when I say we make no apologies for it.
Point well made. I was in a pretty bad mood yesterday and was reading alot of self entitled posts. I'll admit I skipped alot of reading on this one to just flare up because of other posts I was angry about. Sorry to be a black mark on this nice post. I didn't realize this wasn't a self entitlement post.
Regardless, I do like the exchange of ideas. I think what you are asking for is being given as best as possible by the companies trying to put out MMO's. I really don't think that it is for the lack of trying that we end up with what we do. Unfortunately alot of innovation is rejected and those games don't even live long enough to realize any kind of potential. Something like Auto Assault could have made it in the days when Anarchy Online came out. The same way that Anarchy Online wouldn't make it comming on the market today.
It seems the era to do new, inovative and creative games has kind of passed in favor of an era where games are easy to understand and can appeal to a broad audience. The days of the "immersion gamers" was a past thing because it had alot to with what exactly it was to be a PC gamer at the time. This is not to say it couldn't happen again, I am mearly pointing out that we did, in fact, have a time when we were the catered audience.
There is a great deal of people who discovered PC gaming through the avenue of World of Warcraft. So this is what this new breed of PC gamer now expects from the MMO genre. It is hard to see this changing soon and by the attempts made recently, such as Tabula Rasa, it doesn't seem like the genre is quite ready for a "new breed" of MMO to eclipse the old ways. Tabula Rasa only barely broke the mold, it was really quite similar to the mainstream MMO's today.