So, what you're looking for is an overpowered class...
LOL WoW hybrids are pretty wild tbh, they do everything. The pally, DK, Druid and Shaman as so far out there I would almost call it bad Class design. It basically proves that WoW is a pve game, not pvp dev team in their right mind would make classes like that for balance reasons.
I'm getting frustrated as well. I started an Engineer on Ostemark (the Roleplaying server) and in the last three night, I've only been able to find nine people for RvR on the Order side. We did well and it was fun, but eventually the "horde" of chaos players descends upon us and wipes us out. Two nights ago we had eight and a group of chaos, so large I couldn't count them all, massacred us. There must have been at least 24 people. Immediately half the people in our group had other things they needed to do and RvR ceased, other than me and two others running around trying to capture points before the chaos came after us. Tiresome to say the least.
I like Warhammer, but the RvR sucks for me so far. I don't know why they would have a server merger and leave one side so imbalanced. I've only played Tier 1 so far, but I don't really have the desire to play any higher. I really wish I hadn't bought the game. Right now I'm counting the days til I can turn on another game. I kept reading how the population died, but I didn't think it was this bad.
You can say QQ, which I'm sure some moron who doesn't believe people have the right to state their grievances will, but these issues will need to be addressed in order for the game to succed.
Do you think I'd enjoy it more if I just rerolled order on the other RP server and made Ostemark my chaos server or is it more of the same, as in you have to search for people to PvP against?
If you're reading this, you probably need to get some sun.
If you don't mind a bad image you could try kitting out a DoK/WP for damage-dealing, as suggested above. Though you should be prepared to take some cussing from people when you lose one of the many battles you could have won if you had healed people.
A two hander tank dps specced is nice, becuase you have a nice balance of survivability and dps. I have a two hander and a 1 hander BO, and I just love both. As a two hander dps tank, you won't be able to tank as much as a tank specced tank, and you won't be able to dps as much as a dps class, but you get a good median of being able to take hits and do damage. Unlike real dps classes, you can take more than 2-3 hits and then die. You can actually take a good beating with heavy armor and more toughness/wounds than a normal dps, and you will acually be able to kill things decently fast, or have good AOE attacks, nothing near the dps class, but more than a pure tank.
I'm not going to sugar coat this because it's gamers like you that are ruining the industry. You want classes to have everything and not really be limited by much.
The class you want to play is probably going to be an SM. Go with a two-hander because SM's these days actually work best with a two-hander from what I've seen. SM's do the highest damage of any of the tanks, but with their balance mechanic you have to think ahead a little. If you really think that they're wearing a dress then that says a lot about you, but I'll choose not to go into that here. At the higher tier of their armor you wont notice anything.
White lions right now suck, don't bother with them
SW's suck, don't bother with them.
Witch hunters are freaking awesome and have plenty of survivability if you're playing them right. They require planning and thinking ahead, but if you're looking for an ez-moad class like paladin/DK in WoW then you wont find one in WAR. See while WAR had a rocky start, Mythic actually does have at least half an idea of how to design classes in a team environment. Where WoW is now Blizz might as well just make every class able to spec to tank/dps, dps/heal, tank/heal or be able to change specs to do all three like with Paladins and Druids.
I played a thane back in DAOC. The class was awesome. I got mine to ML 4 or 5 then quit. DAOC had a lot of classes that you will never see again. Devs either dont have the imagination or skill to do it these days. I have never seen another class like bonedancers or theurgists. I have never seen another Warden or zerker. The chances are we never will again and with any luck we will never see unbalanced, poorly designed classes like those in WoW ever again.
Oh and the WAR devs have said themselves that designing a game to balance it around solo PvE (solo questing, mob grind, etc.) is a terrible idea. I agree with them.
Originally posted by Lord_Ixigan I'm not going to sugar coat this because it's gamers like you that are ruining the industry. You want classes to have everything and not really be limited by much. The class you want to play is probably going to be an SM. Go with a two-hander because SM's these days actually work best with a two-hander from what I've seen. SM's do the highest damage of any of the tanks, but with their balance mechanic you have to think ahead a little. If you really think that they're wearing a dress then that says a lot about you, but I'll choose not to go into that here. At the higher tier of their armor you wont notice anything. White lions right now suck, don't bother with them SW's suck, don't bother with them. Witch hunters are freaking awesome and have plenty of survivability if you're playing them right. They require planning and thinking ahead, but if you're looking for an ez-moad class like paladin/DK in WoW then you wont find one in WAR. See while WAR had a rocky start, Mythic actually does have at least half an idea of how to design classes in a team environment. Where WoW is now Blizz might as well just make every class able to spec to tank/dps, dps/heal, tank/heal or be able to change specs to do all three like with Paladins and Druids. I played a thane back in DAOC. The class was awesome. I got mine to ML 4 or 5 then quit. DAOC had a lot of classes that you will never see again. Devs either dont have the imagination or skill to do it these days. I have never seen another class like bonedancers or theurgists. I have never seen another Warden or zerker. The chances are we never will again and with any luck we will never see unbalanced, poorly designed classes like those in WoW ever again. Oh and the WAR devs have said themselves that designing a game to balance it around solo PvE (solo questing, mob grind, etc.) is a terrible idea. I agree with them.
One word, BALANCE. Also, like has been mentioned, WaR is a team game and its not really made to be soloed. Surely thats the point in MMO's though, is interact with other people. I know thats what I play for and WaR is one of the greatest team experiences I've ever had because class's aren't mage tanks and we need each other to survive (just like people ).
If you want an insane overpowered class play a single player RPG.
The problem is that in rvr/scenerios the classes are unbalanced so no matter what class you role other than the Choppa or Slayer your character is not going to reach its full potential like it should. The best thing to do is just roll a class you like to play and stick with it because more changes to classes are coming. Other than liking the way Chaos Chosen/Marauder look there hasn't been a class I'm really into at the moment. If they really don't fix these balance issues soon I can see more unhappy people leaving.
I love my WP. Lots of survivability so far. I have a tactic set for solo-questing and a tactic set for healing, which I use in keep-taking and SC's, when needed. There has been a few times when I get singled out in a SC and my enemy gets tired of not being able to wear me down and moves on. If you have patience, I recommend leveling up a Warrior Priest.
I'm not going to sugar coat this because it's gamers like you that are ruining the industry. You want classes to have everything and not really be limited by much. I'm not going to sugar coat this, because it's people like you who make coming to these forums such a pain in the ass. For instance, if you read the entire thread, some of your comments wouldn't of been made, unless you like being redundant. Now to explain this Barney style to you, just because a class can heal, dps, take damage, and have utility does not make it OPed. It depends on what degree they can do each thing in. It all must be balanced of course, but it can and has been done before. So what I'm asking for isn't irrational or unpopular or wrong. What I ask for isn't hurting the genre. Just because a class can do all of those things, doesn't mean they can do them as good as another class. In fact, the more the hybrid can do, the less effective they should be at it. You've seen yourself that hybrids can coexist without being OPed. The class you want to play is probably going to be an SM. Go with a two-hander because SM's these days actually work best with a two-hander from what I've seen. SM's do the highest damage of any of the tanks, but with their balance mechanic you have to think ahead a little. If you really think that they're wearing a dress then that says a lot about you, but I'll choose not to go into that here. At the higher tier of their armor you wont notice anything. The fact that you cannot read an entire thread without posting, which shows your impatience and level of wisdom shows what kind of person you are. So once again, if you cannot be bothered to read the thread to see if your points have already been addressed, then don't bother pointing fingers. White lions right now suck, don't bother with them SW's suck, don't bother with them. Witch hunters are freaking awesome and have plenty of survivability if you're playing them right. They require planning and thinking ahead, but if you're looking for an ez-moad class like paladin/DK in WoW then you wont find one in WAR. See while WAR had a rocky start, Mythic actually does have at least half an idea of how to design classes in a team environment. Where WoW is now Blizz might as well just make every class able to spec to tank/dps, dps/heal, tank/heal or be able to change specs to do all three like with Paladins and Druids. I played a thane back in DAOC. The class was awesome. I got mine to ML 4 or 5 then quit. DAOC had a lot of classes that you will never see again. Devs either dont have the imagination or skill to do it these days. I have never seen another class like bonedancers or theurgists. I have never seen another Warden or zerker. The chances are we never will again and with any luck we will never see unbalanced, poorly designed classes like those in WoW ever again. Oh and the WAR devs have said themselves that designing a game to balance it around solo PvE (solo questing, mob grind, etc.) is a terrible idea. I agree with them. This is irrellevant, because I've already stated that all I do is PvP. One thing you haven't addressed objectively is that Mythic cannot force people to roll Destruction or Order, nor can they force people to play a particular class. So making classes that depend on others works well in theory, but in actual practice it doesn't work at all. The reason being is because one side may or may not have the classes needed to compete. Should everyone then just log off? How long do expect people to put up with that before they quit the game? How long do you expect a game to exist if people are quitting? So what kind of people are hurting the genre again? People that like hybrids, or people who are so set in their ways, that they'd rather lash out against those that are different, rather than having a logical and rational discussion?
Play a KoTBS. You do not have to "twist" to be viable. You especially do not have to "twist" like a EQ Bard. Give it a try. From your description it is the class for you.
White lions right now suck, don't bother with them SW's suck, don't bother with them. <<snip>> See while WAR had a rocky start, Mythic actually does have at least half an idea of how to design classes in a team environment.
I am not entirely sure I follow you here.
The general concensus that I am hearing is that mythic is stuggling with balance in the game and I agree with that. Which is part of the reason why, as you also stated, some classes suck. Mythic has a reputation for wild swings in any direction when they do their balancing passes and so far this looks to be more of the same.
There is a big difference between having a clue and being able to deliver on that.
I just want to ask, Is it a bad thing to create a game with group focus pvp in mind?
Should a healer be able to Heal forever, Dps and have amazing survivability/utility?
Why is it so bad to have to rely on other players in a MMO?
The OP says this doesnt work in practice but I believe it does.
People that solo all day and refuse to make friends/allys in this game will struggle. This imo is a good thing.
Some people say the WL suxs or the Marauder sux but to be honest in a group situation I havent seen any evidence of this.
I've gotten killed and killed every class on order side they seem to full fill their roles.
To the OP you wont find a easy OP solo monster class in this game, the whole idea on class design in WAR is that we all need eachother.
To you this is a flaw, to me it reminds me of the old days in EQ or DAoC where classes weren't jack of all trades.
When I first started WAR i liked that I had to run from Melee Dps as a Sorc or my Marauder couldnt just rush into a pack of Order and flail away without getting insta gibbed.
You need to think and play to your strengths and the oppositions weaknesses.
I'm alot better in Pvp now in WAR. Im patient with my Marauder. I wait for Dps to attack my healers/casters and I protect them, I go after Casters and Ranged DPS before Tanks and Melee Dps, I try nto to stay to close to the rest of my teammates if i see a few BWs hanging in the back spamming AOE.
I personally feel that this is how classes are supposed to be played, Every class isnt supposed to have tank survivability, high Dps and CC out the ying yang.
If thats what you're looking for this game isn't for you.
I just want to ask, Is it a bad thing to create a game with group focus pvp in mind? Should a healer be able to Heal forever, Dps and have amazing survivability/utility? Why is it so bad to have to rely on other players in a MMO? The OP says this doesnt work in practice but I believe it does. People that solo all day and refuse to make friends/allys in this game will struggle. This imo is a good thing. Some people say the WL suxs or the Marauder sux but to be honest in a group situation I havent seen any evidence of this. I've gotten killed and killed every class on order side they seem to full fill their roles. To the OP you wont find a easy OP solo monster class in this game, the whole idea on class design in WAR is that we all need eachother. To you this is a flaw, to me it reminds me of the old days in EQ or DAoC where classes weren't jack of all trades. When I first started WAR i liked that I had to run from Melee Dps as a Sorc or my Marauder couldnt just rush into a pack of Order and flail away without getting insta gibbed. You need to think and play to your strengths and the oppositions weaknesses. I'm alot better in Pvp now in WAR. Im patient with my Marauder. I wait for Dps to attack my healers/casters and I protect them, I go after Casters and Ranged DPS before Tanks and Melee Dps, I try nto to stay to close to the rest of my teammates if i see a few BWs hanging in the back spamming AOE. I personally feel that this is how classes are supposed to be played, Every class isnt supposed to have tank survivability, high Dps and CC out the ying yang. If thats what you're looking for this game isn't for you.
When people complain about a class being bad it isn't always about whether or not it's a jack of all trades, but instead is frustration that there is no role their class fills that another class can't fill better.
I agree people are impatient and often won't learn how to play a class in a way that suits them or try to play it the same way someone else does, when I played WAR I had a WH and they can be paper thin, but I learned to keep moving, cycle through targets and use the burst damage I could do to finish off weak targets instead of going toe to toe with anyone. Before that I died alot.
The archetype system fails and has never worked because it just makes the classes feel generic and watered down and just not fun to play. You spend your whole time going through the starter areas again and again until you realise you like none of the classes so you just go with one and then you just become down on the game cause you're not having fun with the class or any class.
The WoW class system where each class is very different from eachother is the best and I like how each class can play 3 total different roles. I've never had more fun with any class than my Druid on WoW.
I just want to ask, Is it a bad thing to create a game with group focus pvp in mind? Should a healer be able to Heal forever, Dps and have amazing survivability/utility? Why is it so bad to have to rely on other players in a MMO? The OP says this doesnt work in practice but I believe it does. People that solo all day and refuse to make friends/allys in this game will struggle. This imo is a good thing. Some people say the WL suxs or the Marauder sux but to be honest in a group situation I havent seen any evidence of this. I've gotten killed and killed every class on order side they seem to full fill their roles. To the OP you wont find a easy OP solo monster class in this game, the whole idea on class design in WAR is that we all need eachother. To you this is a flaw, to me it reminds me of the old days in EQ or DAoC where classes weren't jack of all trades. When I first started WAR i liked that I had to run from Melee Dps as a Sorc or my Marauder couldnt just rush into a pack of Order and flail away without getting insta gibbed. You need to think and play to your strengths and the oppositions weaknesses. I'm alot better in Pvp now in WAR. Im patient with my Marauder. I wait for Dps to attack my healers/casters and I protect them, I go after Casters and Ranged DPS before Tanks and Melee Dps, I try nto to stay to close to the rest of my teammates if i see a few BWs hanging in the back spamming AOE. I personally feel that this is how classes are supposed to be played, Every class isnt supposed to have tank survivability, high Dps and CC out the ying yang. If thats what you're looking for this game isn't for you.
In DAoC, you had classes like the ones I like. If you read my f'ing post you'd realize that. Thane and Reaver come to mind.
There is nothing wrong with team based play as long as every class has something to offer to the team.
Personally I think it is much easier to hide flaws in balance in a team based game, because you don't get to individually examine how everything works if the team is doing well. It isn't until you get extremes that certain things come to light. Like when your team had a decent balance of tanks/dps/heal, but the dps was primarily shadow warriors and engineers winning was clearly harder than if the dps was heavy on bright wizards and witch hunters. I'm referring to how things were at the games release, not now.
Class balance is still important. If one class fills a role on the team leaps and bounds better than others, then there really isn't much reason to have anything but that class.
There is nothing wrong with team based play as long as every class has something to offer to the team. Personally I think it is much easier to hide flaws in balance in a team based game, because you don't get to individually examine how everything works if the team is doing well. It isn't until you get extremes that certain things come to light. Like when your team had a decent balance of tanks/dps/heal, but the dps was primarily shadow warriors and engineers winning was clearly harder than if the dps was heavy on bright wizards and witch hunters. I'm referring to how things were at the games release, not now.
Class balance is still important. If one class fills a role on the team leaps and bounds better than others, then there really isn't much reason to have anything but that class.
That is a dillema, but a dillema that most don't get to face in ORvR. The reason why is because you cannot control what class people play or how they play it. A team based balance system isn't good, because it's assuming you have a certain amount of tanks, healers, and dps on the field vs. a certain amount of the enemies tanks, healers, and dps. The fact is that on the battlefield, you don't have the proper mix of classes on both sides, so team balance isn't worth a shit. People arguing for team balance usually have a premade up their sleaves and can give a shit less about other people. The game is designed for random strangers to meet up and PvP. Look at the PQ system, the Rally Call system, the Join All (SC) system. Joining battles are easy and anyone can do it. So people all over, and different class make ups will join. There's no telling what mix of classes you have and if the game is balanced to where you need a certain number of tanks, MDPS, RDPS, and Healers, then you've already set the winner before the people even started fighting. Of course this doesn't take into acount player skill and team work, but the game is balanced on ideal team based play.
I'm currently playing a Swordmaster and honestly, they do rock. I would point out that, as in most games, defense doesn't seem to do that much in RvR situations, so unless you got a 1-hander that does more than your 2-hander, go 2-hander. The nice thing about SMs is they get a damage absorber, which even though it isn't "OMG Awesome" as you kids might say, it still helps out. I also would recommend that in a few years, when you've been playing MMOs for awhile, you might begin to appreciate just how well the classes are balanced in Warhammer. If you want an easy game to play, that really doesn't take a lot of forethought, then you should really head back to WoW. If you want to actually think and use a little strategy, not just running around someone in a circle praying they don't hit you, then stick around and you might get something from Warhammer.
The problem is that people don't accept games for what they are, but rather they complain because they aren't what they want them to be. I never wanted to adventure around Baldur's Gate when that game came out, but you know what, I accepted that's where it was set and enjoyed the game. If you want to decide everything that happens in a freaking game, go buy your own game company, otherwise suck it up and lose the sense of entitlement.
If you're reading this, you probably need to get some sun.
I'm currently playing a Swordmaster and honestly, they do rock. I would point out that, as in most games, defense doesn't seem to do that much in RvR situations, so unless you got a 1-hander that does more than your 2-hander, go 2-hander. The nice thing about SMs is they get a damage absorber, which even though it isn't "OMG Awesome" as you kids might say, it still helps out. I also would recommend that in a few years, when you've been playing MMOs for awhile, you might begin to appreciate just how well the classes are balanced in Warhammer. If you want an easy game to play, that really doesn't take a lot of forethought, then you should really head back to WoW. If you want to actually think and use a little strategy, not just running around someone in a circle praying they don't hit you, then stick around and you might get something from Warhammer. The problem is that people don't accept games for what they are, but rather they complain because they aren't what they want them to be. I never wanted to adventure around Baldur's Gate when that game came out, but you know what, I accepted that's where it was set and enjoyed the game. If you want to decide everything that happens in a freaking game, go buy your own game company, otherwise suck it up and lose the sense of entitlement.
May I ask who this post is directed to? Because first you started by assuming someone is a kid, and assuming is an immature reaction. Instead of assuming, one should gather all the facts, then make a decision. Next, you made the mistake of telling other people what they should do, which you have no right to do. Everyone deserves respect and if you want it, you should start showing it. Lastly, you made the mistake of assuming a persons game experience. Just as point 1 says, before you assume, do the mature and rational thing, which is gather all of the facts.
Thanks.
P.S.- I prefer sword and board in RvR on my SM, and there's a noticable difference on how long I stay up compared to if I used a 2-hander. The longer I can stay up, the more of an annoyance I am to the enemy. But that's just my preference.
I dont think he was assuming you are a kid...read the post again..
He said ""OMG Awesome" as you kids might say". Implying that he is not up to date with the latest interwebz slang...there is no need to get all defensive about it.
You do seem very defensive, and I can see why, as some people make some assumptions, but it does you no favours by acting as they assume you will.
My friends in their 50s call me a kid, and I am far beyond that age...
Anyway, back on topic..how far did you try WP til?
They suck early on, sure, but once you get Divine assault and run round doing as much dmg as you do healing, and taking on champions + adds without dropping below 90% health, then its a lot more fun...hell, I even tanked a PQ hero due to the other people being WH and falling over all the time
My main problem with WAR is that I love the game, but I cant settle on a class...or a realm, the amount of times I have deleted and swapped realms is insane
atm playing a WP, RP and AM, but being pulled back to Zealot and Magus...so may be deleting all over again
The archetype system fails and has never worked because it just makes the classes feel generic and watered down and just not fun to play. You spend your whole time going through the starter areas again and again until you realise you like none of the classes so you just go with one and then you just become down on the game cause you're not having fun with the class or any class. The WoW class system where each class is very different from eachother is the best and I like how each class can play 3 total different roles. I've never had more fun with any class than my Druid on WoW.
The WoW class system - lol. The WoW classes were terrible and as generic as they come. I suppose you're talking about the talent trees. Big deal.
DAoC had so many unique classes it puts WoW to shame. And you obvious never got passed level 5 in CoH/CoV if you didn't enjoy the system. You could customize so much and basically hardly any people were the same at the end. WoW classes are the definition of cookie cutter.
I dont think he was assuming you are a kid...read the post again..
He said ""OMG Awesome" as you kids might say". Implying that he is not up to date with the latest interwebz slang...there is no need to get all defensive about it. You do seem very defensive, and I can see why, as some people make some assumptions, but it does you no favours by acting as they assume you will. My friends in their 50s call me a kid, and I am far beyond that age...
This ^
If you weren't on here acting like some 12 year old kid, maybe people would treat you with more respect and actually help you. As others have stated, this game probably isn't for you.
Comments
So, what you're looking for is an overpowered class...
LOL WoW hybrids are pretty wild tbh, they do everything. The pally, DK, Druid and Shaman as so far out there I would almost call it bad Class design. It basically proves that WoW is a pve game, not pvp dev team in their right mind would make classes like that for balance reasons.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
I'm getting frustrated as well. I started an Engineer on Ostemark (the Roleplaying server) and in the last three night, I've only been able to find nine people for RvR on the Order side. We did well and it was fun, but eventually the "horde" of chaos players descends upon us and wipes us out. Two nights ago we had eight and a group of chaos, so large I couldn't count them all, massacred us. There must have been at least 24 people. Immediately half the people in our group had other things they needed to do and RvR ceased, other than me and two others running around trying to capture points before the chaos came after us. Tiresome to say the least.
I like Warhammer, but the RvR sucks for me so far. I don't know why they would have a server merger and leave one side so imbalanced. I've only played Tier 1 so far, but I don't really have the desire to play any higher. I really wish I hadn't bought the game. Right now I'm counting the days til I can turn on another game. I kept reading how the population died, but I didn't think it was this bad.
You can say QQ, which I'm sure some moron who doesn't believe people have the right to state their grievances will, but these issues will need to be addressed in order for the game to succed.
Do you think I'd enjoy it more if I just rerolled order on the other RP server and made Ostemark my chaos server or is it more of the same, as in you have to search for people to PvP against?
If you're reading this, you probably need to get some sun.
If you don't mind a bad image you could try kitting out a DoK/WP for damage-dealing, as suggested above. Though you should be prepared to take some cussing from people when you lose one of the many battles you could have won if you had healed people.
A two hander tank dps specced is nice, becuase you have a nice balance of survivability and dps. I have a two hander and a 1 hander BO, and I just love both. As a two hander dps tank, you won't be able to tank as much as a tank specced tank, and you won't be able to dps as much as a dps class, but you get a good median of being able to take hits and do damage. Unlike real dps classes, you can take more than 2-3 hits and then die. You can actually take a good beating with heavy armor and more toughness/wounds than a normal dps, and you will acually be able to kill things decently fast, or have good AOE attacks, nothing near the dps class, but more than a pure tank.
I'm not going to sugar coat this because it's gamers like you that are ruining the industry. You want classes to have everything and not really be limited by much.
The class you want to play is probably going to be an SM. Go with a two-hander because SM's these days actually work best with a two-hander from what I've seen. SM's do the highest damage of any of the tanks, but with their balance mechanic you have to think ahead a little. If you really think that they're wearing a dress then that says a lot about you, but I'll choose not to go into that here. At the higher tier of their armor you wont notice anything.
White lions right now suck, don't bother with them
SW's suck, don't bother with them.
Witch hunters are freaking awesome and have plenty of survivability if you're playing them right. They require planning and thinking ahead, but if you're looking for an ez-moad class like paladin/DK in WoW then you wont find one in WAR. See while WAR had a rocky start, Mythic actually does have at least half an idea of how to design classes in a team environment. Where WoW is now Blizz might as well just make every class able to spec to tank/dps, dps/heal, tank/heal or be able to change specs to do all three like with Paladins and Druids.
I played a thane back in DAOC. The class was awesome. I got mine to ML 4 or 5 then quit. DAOC had a lot of classes that you will never see again. Devs either dont have the imagination or skill to do it these days. I have never seen another class like bonedancers or theurgists. I have never seen another Warden or zerker. The chances are we never will again and with any luck we will never see unbalanced, poorly designed classes like those in WoW ever again.
Oh and the WAR devs have said themselves that designing a game to balance it around solo PvE (solo questing, mob grind, etc.) is a terrible idea. I agree with them.
This part was clever and I did laugh, lol.
"TO MICHAEL!"
One word, BALANCE. Also, like has been mentioned, WaR is a team game and its not really made to be soloed. Surely thats the point in MMO's though, is interact with other people. I know thats what I play for and WaR is one of the greatest team experiences I've ever had because class's aren't mage tanks and we need each other to survive (just like people
).
If you want an insane overpowered class play a single player RPG.
The problem is that in rvr/scenerios the classes are unbalanced so no matter what class you role other than the Choppa or Slayer your character is not going to reach its full potential like it should. The best thing to do is just roll a class you like to play and stick with it because more changes to classes are coming. Other than liking the way Chaos Chosen/Marauder look there hasn't been a class I'm really into at the moment. If they really don't fix these balance issues soon I can see more unhappy people leaving.
I love my WP. Lots of survivability so far. I have a tactic set for solo-questing and a tactic set for healing, which I use in keep-taking and SC's, when needed. There has been a few times when I get singled out in a SC and my enemy gets tired of not being able to wear me down and moves on. If you have patience, I recommend leveling up a Warrior Priest.
Play a KoTBS. You do not have to "twist" to be viable. You especially do not have to "twist" like a EQ Bard. Give it a try. From your description it is the class for you.
I am not entirely sure I follow you here.
The general concensus that I am hearing is that mythic is stuggling with balance in the game and I agree with that. Which is part of the reason why, as you also stated, some classes suck. Mythic has a reputation for wild swings in any direction when they do their balancing passes and so far this looks to be more of the same.
There is a big difference between having a clue and being able to deliver on that.
I just want to ask, Is it a bad thing to create a game with group focus pvp in mind?
Should a healer be able to Heal forever, Dps and have amazing survivability/utility?
Why is it so bad to have to rely on other players in a MMO?
The OP says this doesnt work in practice but I believe it does.
People that solo all day and refuse to make friends/allys in this game will struggle. This imo is a good thing.
Some people say the WL suxs or the Marauder sux but to be honest in a group situation I havent seen any evidence of this.
I've gotten killed and killed every class on order side they seem to full fill their roles.
To the OP you wont find a easy OP solo monster class in this game, the whole idea on class design in WAR is that we all need eachother.
To you this is a flaw, to me it reminds me of the old days in EQ or DAoC where classes weren't jack of all trades.
When I first started WAR i liked that I had to run from Melee Dps as a Sorc or my Marauder couldnt just rush into a pack of Order and flail away without getting insta gibbed.
You need to think and play to your strengths and the oppositions weaknesses.
I'm alot better in Pvp now in WAR. Im patient with my Marauder. I wait for Dps to attack my healers/casters and I protect them, I go after Casters and Ranged DPS before Tanks and Melee Dps, I try nto to stay to close to the rest of my teammates if i see a few BWs hanging in the back spamming AOE.
I personally feel that this is how classes are supposed to be played, Every class isnt supposed to have tank survivability, high Dps and CC out the ying yang.
If thats what you're looking for this game isn't for you.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
When people complain about a class being bad it isn't always about whether or not it's a jack of all trades, but instead is frustration that there is no role their class fills that another class can't fill better.
I agree people are impatient and often won't learn how to play a class in a way that suits them or try to play it the same way someone else does, when I played WAR I had a WH and they can be paper thin, but I learned to keep moving, cycle through targets and use the burst damage I could do to finish off weak targets instead of going toe to toe with anyone. Before that I died alot.
The archetype system fails and has never worked because it just makes the classes feel generic and watered down and just not fun to play. You spend your whole time going through the starter areas again and again until you realise you like none of the classes so you just go with one and then you just become down on the game cause you're not having fun with the class or any class.
The WoW class system where each class is very different from eachother is the best and I like how each class can play 3 total different roles. I've never had more fun with any class than my Druid on WoW.
In DAoC, you had classes like the ones I like. If you read my f'ing post you'd realize that. Thane and Reaver come to mind.
There is nothing wrong with team based play as long as every class has something to offer to the team.
Personally I think it is much easier to hide flaws in balance in a team based game, because you don't get to individually examine how everything works if the team is doing well. It isn't until you get extremes that certain things come to light. Like when your team had a decent balance of tanks/dps/heal, but the dps was primarily shadow warriors and engineers winning was clearly harder than if the dps was heavy on bright wizards and witch hunters. I'm referring to how things were at the games release, not now.
Class balance is still important. If one class fills a role on the team leaps and bounds better than others, then there really isn't much reason to have anything but that class.
That is a dillema, but a dillema that most don't get to face in ORvR. The reason why is because you cannot control what class people play or how they play it. A team based balance system isn't good, because it's assuming you have a certain amount of tanks, healers, and dps on the field vs. a certain amount of the enemies tanks, healers, and dps. The fact is that on the battlefield, you don't have the proper mix of classes on both sides, so team balance isn't worth a shit. People arguing for team balance usually have a premade up their sleaves and can give a shit less about other people. The game is designed for random strangers to meet up and PvP. Look at the PQ system, the Rally Call system, the Join All (SC) system. Joining battles are easy and anyone can do it. So people all over, and different class make ups will join. There's no telling what mix of classes you have and if the game is balanced to where you need a certain number of tanks, MDPS, RDPS, and Healers, then you've already set the winner before the people even started fighting. Of course this doesn't take into acount player skill and team work, but the game is balanced on ideal team based play.
I'm currently playing a Swordmaster and honestly, they do rock. I would point out that, as in most games, defense doesn't seem to do that much in RvR situations, so unless you got a 1-hander that does more than your 2-hander, go 2-hander. The nice thing about SMs is they get a damage absorber, which even though it isn't "OMG Awesome" as you kids might say, it still helps out. I also would recommend that in a few years, when you've been playing MMOs for awhile, you might begin to appreciate just how well the classes are balanced in Warhammer. If you want an easy game to play, that really doesn't take a lot of forethought, then you should really head back to WoW. If you want to actually think and use a little strategy, not just running around someone in a circle praying they don't hit you, then stick around and you might get something from Warhammer.
The problem is that people don't accept games for what they are, but rather they complain because they aren't what they want them to be. I never wanted to adventure around Baldur's Gate when that game came out, but you know what, I accepted that's where it was set and enjoyed the game. If you want to decide everything that happens in a freaking game, go buy your own game company, otherwise suck it up and lose the sense of entitlement.
If you're reading this, you probably need to get some sun.
May I ask who this post is directed to? Because first you started by assuming someone is a kid, and assuming is an immature reaction. Instead of assuming, one should gather all the facts, then make a decision. Next, you made the mistake of telling other people what they should do, which you have no right to do. Everyone deserves respect and if you want it, you should start showing it. Lastly, you made the mistake of assuming a persons game experience. Just as point 1 says, before you assume, do the mature and rational thing, which is gather all of the facts.
Thanks.
P.S.- I prefer sword and board in RvR on my SM, and there's a noticable difference on how long I stay up compared to if I used a 2-hander. The longer I can stay up, the more of an annoyance I am to the enemy. But that's just my preference.
I dont think he was assuming you are a kid...read the post again..
He said ""OMG Awesome" as you kids might say". Implying that he is not up to date with the latest interwebz slang...there is no need to get all defensive about it.
You do seem very defensive, and I can see why, as some people make some assumptions, but it does you no favours by acting as they assume you will.
My friends in their 50s call me a kid, and I am far beyond that age...
Anyway, back on topic..how far did you try WP til?
They suck early on, sure, but once you get Divine assault and run round doing as much dmg as you do healing, and taking on champions + adds without dropping below 90% health, then its a lot more fun...hell, I even tanked a PQ hero due to the other people being WH and falling over all the time
My main problem with WAR is that I love the game, but I cant settle on a class...or a realm, the amount of times I have deleted and swapped realms is insane
atm playing a WP, RP and AM, but being pulled back to Zealot and Magus...so may be deleting all over again
The WoW class system - lol. The WoW classes were terrible and as generic as they come. I suppose you're talking about the talent trees. Big deal.
DAoC had so many unique classes it puts WoW to shame. And you obvious never got passed level 5 in CoH/CoV if you didn't enjoy the system. You could customize so much and basically hardly any people were the same at the end. WoW classes are the definition of cookie cutter.
This game doesn't have a Jack of all trades heavy armor class that can melt peoples faces away.
Now go away!
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
This ^
If you weren't on here acting like some 12 year old kid, maybe people would treat you with more respect and actually help you. As others have stated, this game probably isn't for you.
Go to WoW, play a death knight.