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Indie MMO devs on the rise!
Duilyon
Member Posts: 326
Since most main stream MMO devs have taken the saftey route (excpet EVE) by just copying WOWs success its up to those little indie devs to innovate the genre. Games like Fallen Earth and the one man team of RealmLords are trying to bring the genre back to the challenging and innovative days of Asherons Calls, EQ, UO and AO.
I'm pretty excited seeing these small devs attempting to get into the pit with giants like SOE, Blizzard and Turbine. I can't wait to actually see how they do.
Do you guys think Indie devs have a chance to really affect the MMO industry and perhaps bring back the challenge and innovation to big named MMOs?
Comments
hear hear!
MyBrute = addicting mini online game!
You answered that question yourself when you mentioned EVE Online.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
mmorpgs are the most costly games to make, they are the hardest to maintain, and probably one of the biggest risks you take in the game industry. That said, not that many games are copying WoW believe it or not, but what they are doing is trying to hit that target audience that WoW currently holds. WoW has shown that there can be huge success in the genre, its also said a very difficult standard for other development studios. Releasing a good project is a curse as well as a great benefit. WoW caused more investors to be willing to invest much more money and attention into this great genre, but its all for naught if you cant meet the same level of quality of the cause. Many like to claim WoW is not quality, but its some of the highest quality found in the mmorpg genre, its solid in both design, content, and delivery.
Being completely innovative and different is difficult for developers to do, because its a risk that will ruin their careers if its not a success. The odds are in favor of major profit loss than in gain.
That said indy developers cannot really take that risk either, its very time consuming, very difficult, and it requires them to have a middle man, a legal team, and essentially a whole lot more required to maintain and deliver the game. Its a risk, and if they cant meet the same level of the AAA games, they are wasting their time.
Kids just getting into game development always think they will create the next greatest mmorpg, its usually the first thing they want to do. Oh they will learn the error of their ways, their fantasies will be crushed, their dreams shattered, when they realize its not that easy nor can you just sit down and make an mmorpg that people will play and pay to play.
So in answer to the OP, indy developers, the small man groups will essentially limit their time towards more rewarding projects rather than mmorpgs, however, concepts and test builds can be made by the indy developers only to get investors and or sell it to a bigger company. In a sense you can consider some companies like AV who made Darkfall indy, but then again, they had government backing as well as over 8 years to work on it.
(eve was an indie project. It turned out pretty okay, don't you think?)
Problem with indie developers some, like Darkfall, try to do too much too soon. Since they usually have a small team they need to focus on providing a sound foundation upon which to build on. That was Eve's success, the original game was not fancy or had much depth, but they built on it. That is the route Indie developers should aim for.
The big problem with MMO's is that the player population will exploit it every chance they get, so you have to build in non exploitable features from the start and you have to keep all the decision making code on the server.
mmorpgs are the most costly games to make, they are the hardest to maintain, and probably one of the biggest risks you take in the game industry.
No mmorpgs are NOT the most costly games to make. GTA4 cost $100 million.
The biggest risk someone could make in the game industry is tying their game down to one format, even the PC.
The only reason MMO's are profitable on the PC is that players have to log into the motherbrain before they can play. As much as I hate to see Bill Roper do well and to add another notch to the PC is dying debate, but I believe Champions Online will be successful and make gamedevs sit up and take notice.
A (casual yet fun?) MMO on the Xbox 360, PC, Wii and PS3, (maybe even DS) made by an indie dev could potentially dwarf the subscriber base of WoW.
Had to remove signature because of lame code of conduct...
mmorpgs are the most costly games to make, they are the hardest to maintain, and probably one of the biggest risks you take in the game industry.
No mmorpgs are NOT the most costly games to make. GTA4 cost $100 million.
The biggest risk someone could make in the game industry is tying their game down to one format, even the PC.
The only reason MMO's are profitable on the PC is that players have to log into the motherbrain before they can play. As much as I hate to see Bill Roper do well and to add another notch to the PC is dying debate, but I believe Champions Online will be successful and make gamedevs sit up and take notice.
A (casual yet fun?) MMO on the Xbox 360, PC, Wii and PS3, (maybe even DS) made by an indie dev could potentially dwarf the subscriber base of WoW.
MMORPGS are the most expensive to make, this logic is followed by the fact that certain conditions have to be met during their production. A game like GTA chose to be more expensive, it did not have to be in order to deliver the same gameplay. GTA spent millions alone just getting the rights to use songs from artists as well as overpriced live physics rendering middleware, and way too much spent on marketing. These were not necessary costs, they were fluff used only because they had a big budget to work with. MMORPGs are a bit different, they are like a habitat, you need to have the right conditions for them to function, and they can be costly. Its not a one time cost either, it has to be maintained.
Its also not completely true that platform exclusivity is a big risk. It really depends on the target audience, the hardware, and terms and or benefits of working with that console provider. Even Kojima (metal gear solid) made it quite clear at GDC 09, hardware can dictate what is possible for your project aka "mission". Depending on the mission or what the developer wants to accomplish, being platform exclusive will offer the most freedom to make that project the best it can be, where as with multiple consoles thats not always the case, as the lowest end console limits the entire project, as well as the conditions that are requested by the console makers themselves.
The reasons MMORPGs are successful and popular on PCs is due to the nature of the PC itself, the online freedom and inter connectivity found within PC gamers. All mmorpgs have to connect to an online server, regardless of being run on a console or PC. PCs will always offer user upgradability, modibility, more peripherals and greater control as well as quality of game to the gamer. The games are not restricted by the platform, where as on consoles, each game and many of its features as well as the cost to publish that game on them, are heavily controlled, and quite expensive in its own right. Why do you think Blizzard still develops for PCs?
Finally, dont put all your hopes in Champions online. A number of industry failures are working on that game, its targeted towards a casual audience and quite frankly its not even out yet. So far there is no assurance it will be a good title, especially with the likes of Bill Roper working on it. Its a failed X-Men online project, renamed, rebranded, and overhauled. It also has to contend with the more popular franchise DC universe online as well as Agency to name a few.
Consoles are becoming great online multiplayer platforms, but they still are very limited in their own right. The mmorpg has never truly been a genre for casuals, even though they demand it fall to their level.
"A (casual yet fun?) MMO on the Xbox 360, PC, Wii and PS3, (maybe even DS) made by an indie dev could potentially dwarf the subscriber base of WoW."
Who is going to pay for the server for an indy mmorpg? the cost of maintaining it? the marketing? bug fixes? no its not currently friendly for indy developers to made mmo's for consoles. You can have mmo games that are limited, but nothing on the scale of a mmorpg. It might be possible later down the line, but it would be set up in such a way that the console provider will have to maintain much and take much in the process.
I would agree that Indies are on the rise and with good reason. MMO development techniques, systems and tools have been refined and made more accessible over the years. Server Hardware and High Speed Network Connectivity expense have dropped considerably and will continue to do so.
It is has been proven that MMOs can be developed and maintained by very small teams, even by a single person. Sure a commercial MMO has a astronomical budget and expenses, but, so does commercial single player titles. I'm developing a MMORPFPS single-handedly on spare cash and time. I'm not competing against any particular deadline. I'm going to make the next WOW-killer, its gonna take me the next 10 years to do it - LOL.
I agree. The Torque kit, RealmCrafter, Explorations RPG and several other kits are available that are free or a few hundred dollars that provide a rounded solution for MMO game development. Add to that the countless game SDKs and graphics engines that are available now, production time and production costs are reduced greatly. The barrier to entry has been lowered to a siginificant degree.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
I think the indie devs have a great change to change this industry.
Mainly because right now it's a fact that we have about 300/600k real MMORPG gamers out there, the rest is more into just MMO's not so much MMORPG's
I feel games like Fallen Earth will atract the more MMORPG gamer but will not be the type of game the MMO player would be looking for. Most indie type games are innovative, yet lack the certain polish and look to creat mass-appeal.
But the A title company's will notice since they need to be happy gaining 200/500 subs they now might understand that it's a very good number of people to get into your game, they need to stop pursuing what Blizzard has done and need to put their forcus back into MMORPG, they don't need to stop making games that way cause lets face it everyone can have a different view on the games. So since company's if they deliver a more true MMORPG they should focus on keeping those 200/500k players happy and if they make a more MMORPG type of game they will see that with MMORPG it;'s about longterms and not instant gradification, once they figured that one out A title company's will copy what Indie's are creating but with better dollars and perhaps better polished/graphics.
On this forum, indy or conglomerate, you're going to get the shit ripped out of you. And if you are indy, not having a billion dollars to blow on the project is just one more reason to slag them off. The attitude of posters here has got worse and worse year on year and it wasn't great to start with.
If you are an indy dev releasing a game, god help you if you bother to advertise your game here.
-----
The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
mmorpgs are the most costly games to make, they are the hardest to maintain, and probably one of the biggest risks you take in the game industry.
No mmorpgs are NOT the most costly games to make. GTA4 cost $100 million.
The biggest risk someone could make in the game industry is tying their game down to one format, even the PC.
The only reason MMO's are profitable on the PC is that players have to log into the motherbrain before they can play. As much as I hate to see Bill Roper do well and to add another notch to the PC is dying debate, but I believe Champions Online will be successful and make gamedevs sit up and take notice.
A (casual yet fun?) MMO on the Xbox 360, PC, Wii and PS3, (maybe even DS) made by an indie dev could potentially dwarf the subscriber base of WoW.
MMORPGS are the most expensive to make, this logic is followed by the fact that certain conditions have to be met during their production. A game like GTA chose to be more expensive, it did not have to be in order to deliver the same gameplay. GTA spent millions alone just getting the rights to use songs from artists as well as overpriced live physics rendering middleware, and way too much spent on marketing. These were not necessary costs, they were fluff used only because they had a big budget to work with. MMORPGs are a bit different, they are like a habitat, you need to have the right conditions for them to function, and they can be costly. Its not a one time cost either, it has to be maintained.
Its also not completely true that platform exclusivity is a big risk. It really depends on the target audience, the hardware, and terms and or benefits of working with that console provider. Even Kojima (metal gear solid) made it quite clear at GDC 09, hardware can dictate what is possible for your project aka "mission". Depending on the mission or what the developer wants to accomplish, being platform exclusive will offer the most freedom to make that project the best it can be, where as with multiple consoles thats not always the case, as the lowest end console limits the entire project, as well as the conditions that are requested by the console makers themselves.
The reasons MMORPGs are successful and popular on PCs is due to the nature of the PC itself, the online freedom and inter connectivity found within PC gamers. All mmorpgs have to connect to an online server, regardless of being run on a console or PC. PCs will always offer user upgradability, modibility, more peripherals and greater control as well as quality of game to the gamer. The games are not restricted by the platform, where as on consoles, each game and many of its features as well as the cost to publish that game on them, are heavily controlled, and quite expensive in its own right. Why do you think Blizzard still develops for PCs?
Finally, dont put all your hopes in Champions online. A number of industry failures are working on that game, its targeted towards a casual audience and quite frankly its not even out yet. So far there is no assurance it will be a good title, especially with the likes of Bill Roper working on it. Its a failed X-Men online project, renamed, rebranded, and overhauled. It also has to contend with the more popular franchise DC universe online as well as Agency to name a few.
Consoles are becoming great online multiplayer platforms, but they still are very limited in their own right. The mmorpg has never truly been a genre for casuals, even though they demand it fall to their level.
"A (casual yet fun?) MMO on the Xbox 360, PC, Wii and PS3, (maybe even DS) made by an indie dev could potentially dwarf the subscriber base of WoW."
Who is going to pay for the server for an indy mmorpg? the cost of maintaining it? the marketing? bug fixes? no its not currently friendly for indy developers to made mmo's for consoles. You can have mmo games that are limited, but nothing on the scale of a mmorpg. It might be possible later down the line, but it would be set up in such a way that the console provider will have to maintain much and take much in the process.
Even Blizzard underestimated the number of casual players out there.
Had to remove signature because of lame code of conduct...
We're all care bears now. Pass the My Little Pony.
For every decent indie game out there theres a billion shitty ones, it;s not different than the corporate game industry. For every EvE, a game for which it took years to get decent and succesfful there's plenty of Roma Victors, Darkfalls DnLs etc.
I definitely support indie devs. However, I'm not sure whether it's important if the devs are "indie" or big corporations.
What we need are niche games, no matter who develops them.
There's a difference between "innovation" and catering to a niche. I don't really need innovation in my MMORPGs. I need something that's well made, relatively bug free, and caters to what I want in an MMORPG, not what sells to the WoW crowd, or other popular features.
MMORPG engines make it cheaper and faster to make games, which means it might become profitable to cater to niche gamers. Group based games instead of solo based, hard core PvP, RvR, role playing, and other niches like these have players waiting for good games, but devs are only making games for the masses atm.
It may be that it's not the indie devs that make these niche games, but companies like Blizzard or SOE may start up small subsidiary companies to go after these niche markets.
This happens in the movie industry, where large studios set up "indie" studios to make niche movies.