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Any one else feel dungeon crawling for loot is an important part of an mmorpg?
Sneakers05
Member Posts: 316
I feel like it adds to a goal that even though people think the guy with the biggest weapon or the biggest shiney armor is just a guy that shows off his E-Peen, i feel like ever since diablo 2, that when I item grind or going for loot wether its by myself or with a small group of 5-6 players i feel like theres more fun there, more anticipation, more replayablity etc.
I think a mmorpg with out a rare equipment off mobs system just feels like another FPS. Its wierd. thats what really killed LOTOR for me or any game where crafting gives you the best gear because i feel like its taking away from the replayability or something that has always been common in an mmorpg.
http://helpourfuture.blogspot.com/
save our future.
Comments
Grinding mobs on the off chance that one of them will drop some really good gear for you is a nuisance. If the dungeon itself is interesting, there's no need to put great loot there to get people to do it. If the dungeon is boring, essential loot doesn't make it less boring. It only makes it simultaneously boring and mandatory. That's a toxic recipe for an awful grinding game.
but tons of people play diablo for this exact reason
http://helpourfuture.blogspot.com/
save our future.
Finding good loot is always an improtant part of any mmo. We all want the best gear and weapons for our characters. Though this is coming from a Diablo player.
but tons of people play diablo for this exact reason
Pretty sure that 95%+ of the Diablo players during its prime (and perhaps even today) do NOT play for that reason. A relatively small percent of the population really wants to grind mindlessly for loot. Diablo also benefits from pretty nice gameplay, which helps it a lot and goes back to Quizzical's point.
Now, I do think there is a point to loot, but that point doesn't have to be done with loot. People like to have proof of their accomplishments. Some sense that things are different. That can be done by giving them loot, unique abilities, changing the game world, opening up more content, or many othe things. Loot is far from essential for this.
Agreed. The ability for the players to choose their sides, control territory and engage in meaningful diplomacy/negotations is far more important to me than grinding the same mob for hours in search of rare drops.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
I don't know about everyone else but I got tired of running the exact same dungeon 54,243,693 times for a shot at some rare drop years ago.
That's not saying I don't enjoy a good old-fashioned dungeon stomp, but I'd rather do it in a single-player game where you only have to do it once, or in a game like Diablo where the dungeon is different enough every time so that it never really gets old.
In MMOs I'd rather have the game revolve around more dynamic, player-controlled actions than running static dungeons or pvp scenarios.
There's no better feeling that teaming up with your e-buddies and go good ol' dungeon crawling, killing tough monsters, beating their boss senseless and getting XP and loot then calling it a day. It's the core part of all rpgs from D&D to MMOs. it's not just loot, its fun dungeon crawling, it's a thing all by itself that includes exploration, farming, leveling etc.
Unfortunately, there have been no good PvE games released since WoW (some will say lotro) since its all about PvP non-sense and looking at the past with rose tinted glasses and "oh how good it once was back then". Pfff, if companies concentrated in making a good pve game, I bet they would sell more than all recent releases.
All games that have come out in recent years or coming soon are pvp based afaik and they tend to neglect dungeon crawling... but you can't have a good mmo with no solid, rewarding PvE and that's why they fail (imo-afaik players whine in WAR and DF for lack of better pve to pass time).
I'd love to play a pure PvE game again, where arenas, warbands and the like do not dictate balance. But that ain't happening any time soon.
...
/flamesuit on
Edit: I just realized people always make a connection between dungeon crawling and "omg hardcore farming for that purple that won't F drop!" situations. That's the diablo model for loot, but games can have sweet pve without being chores (i.e. not just a gear treadmill). PvE games deserve one more chance.
but tons of people play diablo for this exact reason
Pretty sure that 95%+ of the Diablo players during its prime (and perhaps even today) do NOT play for that reason. A relatively small percent of the population really wants to grind mindlessly for loot. Diablo also benefits from pretty nice gameplay, which helps it a lot and goes back to Quizzical's point.
Now, I do think there is a point to loot, but that point doesn't have to be done with loot. People like to have proof of their accomplishments. Some sense that things are different. That can be done by giving them loot, unique abilities, changing the game world, opening up more content, or many othe things. Loot is far from essential for this.
The entire point of Diablo was loot.
That statement is the same thing as dungeon crawlers. You're just crawling for different loot. I LOVE it when crafting is an essential part of a game. It gives the game a more player powered experience. The loot crawling is just for ore or whatnot. Which definitely does not take away from the game dynamic.
Furthermore, the mobs just replace the chests that were there in dungeon crawlers. Think about it. The room with the big loot is usually guarded by some BAMF wizard, warlock, werewolf, dragon, <insert big powerful "ima rape yur face" monster>.
I hear vanguard has some of the best dungeon crawling out there
Played and enjoyed: EQ1, DAoC, WoW
Played and disliked: Guild Wars, WAR
Currently playing: Nothing
Waiting for: Mortal Online
If you've got some good basic gameplay and then want to sprinkle some loot in, that's fine. If the basic gameplay is boring, no matter what you do with loot, that won't save the game.
The problem with loot is when it becomes really grindy. You want some particular drop so clear a dungeon 20 times trying to get the boss to drop it.
Not into loot grinding at all.
Which is why I like CoX. You can grind if you want, now that they have crafted enhancements, and recipes of different rarities. And could go for the all purple enhancement set, but you don't really need it.
I played a MUD for years that was full loot pvp. No need to grind their either, just PK. People would PvE to get the best gear, then you just take it from them. Then they just take it from someone else.
So no, I was never into it.
but tons of people play diablo for this exact reason
Pretty sure that 95%+ of the Diablo players during its prime (and perhaps even today) do NOT play for that reason. A relatively small percent of the population really wants to grind mindlessly for loot. Diablo also benefits from pretty nice gameplay, which helps it a lot and goes back to Quizzical's point.
Now, I do think there is a point to loot, but that point doesn't have to be done with loot. People like to have proof of their accomplishments. Some sense that things are different. That can be done by giving them loot, unique abilities, changing the game world, opening up more content, or many othe things. Loot is far from essential for this.
The entire point of Diablo was loot.
I don't know anyone who played Diablo to get loot. I know people who enjoyed getting loot in Diablo, but that is NOT why they played. People played it because it had very good gameplay. It also had a pretty good storyline. Thinking that people played it only to get loot is not at all accurate.
The first form of fantasy-based MMO was the MUD or Multi-User Dungeon. You can probably guess as to why. Dungeons are an integral part of most MMORPG gameplay. I love having new dungeons to go to though I prefer the older ones where a lot of people can go in and mobs are more challenging than the mobs outside the dungeon. Just going into dungeons for loot though is not why I go in. I like having the options of getting better loot yes, but also having more challenging gameplay, and better xp than if I was wandering around hunting. Dungeons also need to have cool rooms in them and places to explore. When I was new to DAoC, exploring the Tomte caverns was great fun. I didn't know what was in there, I didn't know what loot dropped, and there was very real danger in playing in it as a level 8 Shaman. My groupmates and I penetrated down fairly far before being killed by bad pulls of angry little Santas. It was amazing fun! I get less feeling of fun from the more controlled instanced dungeons of WoW or LotRO.
Back in EvE. Started with BatMUD. Main MMOs have been EvE and DAoC.
Agreed completely. Dungeons are fun a couple of times, but after that they old and repetative.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
I disaggree, going into a dungeon only for loot is the most boring part in EQ2 for me. And I prefer wide open dungeons over instanced crap. Instanced crap is always always always exactly the same when you go in
No. And yes.
Theoretically, dungeon crawling is not an important part of an mmo. It's the dramaturgical elements it consists of that are important and they could be found in a host of other activities. Except the dev's don't put them in a host of other activities, they use dungeon crawling.
I think the idea of getting new and better gear is always a nice motivator to do certain things, and it's nice to get a new piece of something. My problem is with the raid dungeon idea of doing things where they have to be run multiple times to get what you need. And I mean tons of times. Sooner or later a new mmo is going to break the mold of what happens at the level cap, since people are becoming more and more tired of the raid grind.
I love dungeons because it provides awesome content and the opportunity to work with others. I do however think this is a very poor and underdeveloped way of doing it and i can see room for improvement.
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
I luv getting some folks together for a Dungeon romp. Guk and Unrest being probably my 2 favorite of all time.
Fighting off the tough pulls, and giving congratz to members of the grp as they upgrade their items/get that important drop.
TO me that is what MMOs are about...working together for big rewards, while enjoying some laughs.
Whoever thinks loot isnt important can keep thinking so...the majority of folks will tell ya they like getting nice upgrades.
I suppose that is why a tradeskill based economy isnt wanted in PVE games. It is viable in PVP where folks dont hold onto things for long.
In PVE games the folks like to adventure/quest for their gear....dungeon delves being a big part of it.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Loot has always been important in a mmorpg. Im waiting for an old fashion mmorpg that is actually fun, and stuff. A mmorpg that doesn't require hours of grinding, and work to reach level 80, and then hours of work to grind gear or months to fully cap/Enhance everything to 100% of its possible.
MMOFPS games generally are fun because it doesn't require a bunch of skill up's and crap
MMORPG like wow, are all based on gear.
Darkfall failed.
Now its just to see what comes in the future or the next 4-8 months from now.
I dont know if I would say Darkfall failed, as it was launched as a niche title.
There is a segment of folks that are luving the game play(FFA PVP). If they can get the trader game going as well as fixing things up with main gamestyle, it may yet rise from the failure of this limited launch.
As a fellow gamer, I hope it works out for these folks.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
i personally do.. its a role playing game, come on!
MyBrute = addicting mini online game!
What's the point in crafting if everything you craft is crap compared to what you get by bashing something over the head? To me epic loot is a bad idea no matter where it comes from but trophy loot is a good thing .As far as dungeon crawls go, yeah but not every MMO needs to have the same things either.
That is exactly the point....
A tradeskill driven economy doesnt belong in an adventure/loot(PvE) based game. They belong with the PvP/sandbox crowd.
Whomever made that decision on traders in LoTRO had an epic brain fart IMO. Although with as casual as they were gunning for, perhaps they felt it was best?
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Agree completely. There is no reason why the crafted items cannot be as good as looted items. Just make the rest of the game fun. People will still go threw the dungeons as long as they are fun to do as a group. For the adventure n exploration.
Loot n loot grinding is just the simple way to keep people in a game. Rather than making the game interesting n fun and new areas to play...just throw in some uber loot in the same areas to keep em goin.