Originally posted by bverji .however my previouse statement was what other then crafting and PVP does COH not have that other games do?
If you go back and read, I've stated a lot of things this game doesn't have that others do. There's even a thread where I use some weak examples from SWG. The two most important things that CoH is lacking is: 1. Something to do besides fight. I don't consider a costume contest something to do, and I can Role-Play on any MMO so that's not valid either. In SWG if you don't want to fight, AND you don't want to craft, you can fish, you can gamble, you can decorate your house, you can plan and execute a wedding/party and the list goes on and on. 2. A reason to have other people online with you. That one is pretty self explainatory. You don't NEED anyone else like you do is SWG.
Yes I do have some aggressive statements, but I get sick of people saying how revolutionary this game is. They haven't done ANYTHING that Diablo II hasn't done, except you have to pay monthly for this version of it.
Games inside a MMORPG, seem pointless to me. Unless they are done really well and involve you in a skilful way what is the point? If I wanted to fish I would buy Super Fly Fishing 2004, if I wanted to gamble I would buy a casino game or do an online version.
If the games in MMORPGs were as good as that then they are worth playing as an add on to MMORPG game. Otherwise a game should stick to content developing the core game not side games.
I dont expect any game to be a sort of Jack of all Trades. Do what is important really well thats all. Also I dont expect to pay my monthly fee and have my entire entertainment for the month sorted for me. I dont expect to play it for 24 hours a day every day of the month and not want to do something else.
Where are those darn movie premieres and MP3 downloads on CoH anyway? :-)
I guess you just don't get it...you don't need anyone else in SWG. You choose do socialise with people in SWG...just like you choose to in COH. The only reason you might need someone in SWG is if your a crafter to buy your stuff. However, if your buying stuff the fact that someone made instead of it being an NPC has litte/no value. also, the only thing you can do in SWG other then fight that you can't do in COH is craft, which has a very limited appeal.
And as I said when I responded to posts about the lack of "content" what can you do other the crafting (which I find for many to be pointless) and PVP which is coming. You just keep using circular logic. Ok, we get it your a SWG fanboi and like to craft. Obviously COH won't be for you or people lkike you with that same mind set. However those people are a very small minority.
Originally posted by MaceGriffin I got bored real qwik.Dont get me wrong the game has a ton of potential but it is just not realized fully.Let me list its good and bad points. 1.Great graphics.The game looks good on a par with anything out there atm. 2.Nice system for tweaking out your powers.Its not too difficult to figure out how to make your powers better. 3.Unique character creation system.Although it seems everyone is named dark something. 4.Side kick system is a standout feature for me. 5.The xp debt is better than losing a level i suppose. Now for the bad. 1.What happened to "shortly after launch we will be patching in a PvP arena"?This would have kept me playing to be honest but it seems that cryptic takes their time with new updates. 2.The 1st update was for the players at high levels.Here they are pushing a game for "casual players"and the only new content for anyone below level 20 is costume changes?Wooopededoooooo!!!! 3.What about the public kiosks that worked in beta?Its as if they forgot to enable them at launch. im sure there is more but this is really all i could think of(im about to come out of warp in eveonline anyways). For a 1st mmo this one is defitnitley geared towards the 1st time mmo experience.Good game at launch but needs a lot more content to keep a longtime mmo player interested.I truly tried to play this game and WANTED to stick with it but i was just bored with it.I dont mean to insult the game that a few of you may be addicted to but ive played more offline rpg's with waaaayy more content than this one has. If you are playing CoH as your 1st mmo do yourself a favor and go try some free trials and you will understand that CoH has a bit more work to do.
(throws 2 points of influence at the CoH forums)
first try and understand I have played allmost every other game on the market and htis one is simply the best how about you understand the fun of playing a game and not having another fulltime Job(aka crafting crap)and there is also badges and alot of other stuff coming out for lower people to enjoy. Also PVP ok DAOC prime example LAG LAG LAG LAG and then lag some more what fun even witht he updates you lag more than you fight. If u have noticed COh has less lag than any other game out which makesit more than worth the waitr for it to get better. Remember Anarchy Oline was really bad at first and now it has a huge Following let the game develop it hasnt been out a year!! Or go play Evercrap the blackhole of the MMROPG universe!
Originally posted by bverji I guess you just don't get it...you don't need anyone else in SWG. You choose do socialise with people in SWG...just like you choose to in COH. The only reason you might need someone in SWG is if your a crafter to buy your stuff. However, if your buying stuff the fact that someone made instead of it being an NPC has litte/no value. also, the only thing you can do in SWG other then fight that you can't do in COH is craft, which has a very limited appeal. And as I said when I responded to posts about the lack of "content" what can you do other the crafting (which I find for many to be pointless) and PVP which is coming. You just keep using circular logic. Ok, we get it your a SWG fanboi and like to craft. Obviously COH won't be for you or people lkike you with that same mind set. However those people are a very small minority.
Wow do you even read my posts? I've listed a bunch of stuff that has nothing to do with crafting and yet that's still all you come back to. Please if you're going to argue with me, at least read my side.
Haven't we had the "you don't need anyone is SWG" argument before? I think it was you, maybe not, so I'll say it again: You CANNOT be a medic and an entertainer and a weaponsmith and an armorsmith and a combat class. You can't, and even if you could, you can't also be a tailor to make the parts that an armorsmith needs, or a scout to get the organics that an armorsmith needs, and still be a master artisan to get the parts that the weaponsmith needs. It is impossible you only have 250 skill points and you can only master a few professions. You NEED other people in SWG even if you NEVER touch a crafting tool. You NEED them there to do more than just talk.
You call me an SWG fanboi, and fine go ahead, but you're wrong, I do see all the problems it has, but it is the ONLY game on the market today that has what I think an MMO needs: A reason to be played online. A reason for there to be 10 thousand other people running around.
now I challenge you: Name one thing you can do in CoH that I can't do in Freedom Force? I won't even exclude anything like you did with crafting and PvP.
Scot, I am a big fan of side games in MMO's. If all I wanted to do was fight I would play a single player game.
Jodokai what you need is CoH the Crafting addition!
Yes we will let you sew your own costumes, smith your own tin suit and clean your own gun! :-)
This stuff is boring, play a proper management game like Civ, or EVE. You must agree that these things were put in by MMORPG developers to use up player time, they were not put in to be something interesting to do on a par with the main game. Thank the comic book gods CoH has nothing like that.
Though I have heard rumours we will get crafting. Bottom line is that some people like you check a game has this before they will buy, so Cryptic will tarnish its superhero comic feel game play to rake in more customers.
Ok what does CoH have that is better than FF? This is comparing a MMORPG to a stand alone game but ok. It is not first person or 3rd person like CoH can be. Graphics of CoH are much better. Enormously larger playing area. Better feel e.g when flying in CoH you really feel much more thats what your doing. Far more people to game with. You will notice that many of my arguments could be applied to why any MMORPG is better than FF, but much the same could be said if you compared Morrowind to EQII. Btw FF is one of my favourite games if you cant play CoH for some reason buy it!
Originally posted by Scot Jodokai what you need is CoH the Crafting addition! Yes we will let you sew your own costumes, smith your own tin suit and clean your own gun! :-) This stuff is boring, play a proper management game like Civ, or EVE. You must agree that these things were put in by MMORPG developers to use up player time, they were not put in to be something interesting to do on a par with the main game. Thank the comic book gods CoH has nothing like that. Though I have heard rumours we will get crafting. Bottom line is that some people like you check a game has this before they will buy, so Cryptic will tarnish its superhero comic feel game play to rake in more customers. Ok what does CoH have that is better than FF? This is comparing a MMORPG to a stand alone game but ok. It is not first person or 3rd person like CoH can be. Graphics of CoH are much better. Enormously larger playing area. Better feel e.g when flying in CoH you really feel much more thats what your doing. Far more people to game with. You will notice that many of my arguments could be applied to why any MMORPG is better than FF, but much the same could be said if you compared Morrowind to EQII. Btw FF is one of my favourite games if you cant play CoH for some reason buy it!
OK, first of all I am a current subscriber to CoH and I love it. But I also agree with Jodokai that the game DOES need crafting or another time-killer other than killing (arresting) enemies.
Crafting may be boring to you, but to state that it is boring like it was a fact is just plain incorrect. I also played SWG for around 6 months and, much like Jodokai, the only reason i stayed in SWG was because of the awesome crafting. I don't know where you're pulling this management stuff from, but I don't think anyone stated anything about management (unless you consider crafting "management"). Anyways, that's my two cents on this whole issue
P.S. I heard that CoH is going to have crafting with the release of CoH. Saw a thread about it on the official forums once a long time ago.
________________________________ MMORPG's Im currently playing: The Sims Online, Second Life, Asherons Call 2, EVE, and City of Heroes
MMORPG's I've played: Star Wars Galaxies, Anarchy Online DAOC, EQ, WW2 Online, and Knight Online
I agree with most of what everyone is saying on the "good" and "bad" points of CoH, but I have faith in NCSoft and Cryptic Studios to better the game. With the upcoming release of "Issue 3", I hope the new content will hold us over until CoV is released or maybe "Issue 4". I am going to stay with the game as it is, IMHO, one of the best MMORPG's out there.
i just hate being forced to craft in other games like daoc and ac i just l want to go hang out and kil stuff with freinds like CoH which is the perfect game for me I just dont have time for other mindless tortures. I love star wars but that game to me is just not fun sorry i hate bashing other games especially anything with a star wars title. I just think for my playstyle CoH is the best!!
Scot, Not only is most of what you said inherant of most other MMO's it is all essentially graphics. If they updated the FF graphics engine, they could be exactly the same game. Actually FF might be a little better due to the fact you could feel like you effect the enviornment.
I will be the first to admit that, though while some of my comments get harsh, CoH has a great foundation. There is little to no lag even in the most crowded areas, the graphics are top notch, the stories are pretty good (TF missions need some work). This is a great place to start. If CoH adds some other things to do besides fight, I'm there, I'll turn into one of the biggest supporters of this game, until then, I can get the same out of a free Single Player game.
I also want to retract something I said in my earlier post. I said that SWG offers something no other MMO has on the market, a reason to have other people online with you. I haven't played a lot of the MMO's on the market so I don't know if there's another game that makes you dependant on others. I do know that you don't need other people in AC2, CoH, EQ, EQ2, WoW, or Horizions (and so far in the Matrix Beta you don't either)
Jodokai what is your highest level character in EQ? After level 40 most classes are completely group dependent. Even around level 30, if you are not an uber twink soloing is difficult for most classes. The difficulty soloing is one of the most common complaints I hear about EQ.
Originally posted by JCR1973 this is the best MMROPG ever 1. has least lag 2. great graphics 3. very young game runs very smoothly future looks bright except for the evil marvel crap. 4. updates so far have been really fun 5. equal opportunity for casual and hard core gamer 6. what does this game not have and yes you will have to spell it out to me.
I agree with every one of your points and i will answer your question on number 6.
First of all, I like this game a lot and to me it is the best MMORPG to date. The only thing it DOES need is something to pass the time when you feel like you don't wanna kill baddies. Sure you could go badge collecting but most of them you STILL have to kill bad guys to get them. Don't get me wrong I love the combat and all, but when i get sick of fighting, I just log off. When I played SWG, when i was sick of fighting I moved onto crafting. My point is is that CoH needs something else to do then fight. Crafting, PvP (which i know is coming soon so please don't say it again lol), or any other thing like that.
Crafting would hold players attention for longer and would attract crafting lovers (like me) to the game.
I hope I got my point across to you!
P.S. I am currently a subscriber to CoH and have no intention of leaving
________________________________ MMORPG's Im currently playing: The Sims Online, Second Life, Asherons Call 2, EVE, and City of Heroes
MMORPG's I've played: Star Wars Galaxies, Anarchy Online DAOC, EQ, WW2 Online, and Knight Online
Originally posted by Imije Jodokai what is your highest level character in EQ? After level 40 most classes are completely group dependent. Even around level 30, if you are not an uber twink soloing is difficult for most classes. The difficulty soloing is one of the most common complaints I hear about EQ.
While technically correct, you need a group to fight harder mobs that's not really what I mean. You could go to max level just fighting creatures one or two levels lower than you just fine. In SWG it would be impossible to max out say Bounty Hunter no matter if you were fighting weak creatures or not. You need people to heal you (mind and body) and make your gear. I don't consider the need to group to fight harder mobs really needing other players.
At level 35 I had all the skills that interested me. I had already done a "respec" mission. I had almost 4 million influence and all the SO's that I required. I realized I had nothing more to play for. My friend made 35 around the same time I did and came to the same conclusion. Had alot of fun with this game, but without anything to spend your influence on besides some "cool effects" and a few new costumes, there just wasn't any motivation to continue.
My friend and I both agree'd that maybe they could offer some "uber" enhancements that cost say.. 1 million each..or more, that would justify not giving your influence to noobs.
One day I logged on, called out to the zone "giving away 99,999 influence to anyone who opens a trade window with me". I was in Steel Canyon where that amount still meant something... I looked like I was feeding pigeons. A large crowd collected around me. I should have snagged a screen shot. Eventually I ran out of influence and logged off. It was like leaving a girlfriend you loved but just couldn't be with anymore.
Someday a game like City of Heroes will come out with all the fun, and enough content to keep you interested. I am currently playing EQ2, and I haven't a clue whats going on. I mine, gather, chop wood..kill. I get butterflies, tin clusters, canine saliva, parsley and coffee beans. I would save all this crap until I learn what to do with it but with only 8 slots in my bank and no ability to store loot in my "apartment" I am forced to delete most of it as I go.
Wow do you even read my posts? I've listed a bunch of stuff that has nothing to do with crafting and yet that's
Yes which we have already established that there really isn't anything in SWG that you can't do in COH and you never responded to (I as well as other already talked about dancing, fisheing gambling and how you can do these in COH as well) which you keep coming back to crafting, which I admit COH doesn't have and stated it for all to read from the get go. I admit if crafting is your thing COH isn't for you. Yet you keep posting about how SWG has other content that COH doesn't have which I keep debunking and when faced with a counter argument you respond with how great the crafting in SWG is. That's not a discussion that's running away hoping you can't be commited to anything you say. I addressed crafting in my previous post as a precurser to you switching your position again, but you instead use it as a lead in to continue disscussing about crafting.
Haven't we had the "you don't need anyone is SWG" argument before? I think it was you, maybe not, so I'll say it again: You CANNOT be a medic and an entertainer and a weaponsmith and an armorsmith and a combat class. You can't, and even if you could, you can't also be a tailor to make the parts that an armorsmith needs, or a scout to get the organics that an armorsmith needs, and still be a master artisan to get the parts that the weaponsmith needs.
While you are right that you can't be everything at the same time you can be enough that you don't need someone else. All you need is novice medic which is only 15 points you can be a combat class and a crafter and still have points to spend. All crafters can harvest. Any items you need (as I have said before, which you havn't addressed) you can make your armor/wepons store up plenty then drop the class or buy from an NPC vendor/bazzar. Which many people do. Also, any raw/crafted materials you can buy on the bazzaar or from venders ie you don't need anyone else. As "I" already established you choose to associate with other people and the fact that some one else collected these items in stead of the fact that they were generated by the game system add little if not nothing to the game. You can and many do aquire any item that can be harvested or crafted and never speak to another person. How hard is it to understand if that is the case...that you chose to interact with people when you aquire thses items? It would seem to be self evident and this is the third time I have made this assertion that you have yet to address, but keep posting that some how SWG crafting makes you relient on others in away that causes people to interact. This is far less encouragement to interact then ouns for grouping, a supportive theme/genre for grouping or content that requires grouping to expierence.
You call me an SWG fanboi, and fine go ahead, but you're wrong, I do see all the problems it has, but it is the ONLY game on the market today that has what I think an MMO needs: A reason to be played online. A reason for there to be 10 thousand other people running around.
And that reason for you is crafting...I disagree that it makes people interact and don't think crafting is a big draw to a game for most people.
You were saying that COH wasn't as good because it doesn't have as much content as games such as SWG (which sometime means crafting and sometimes other things as well dependent on where we are in the discussion) and you defend your assertion by continually modifing your stance. That's why I called you a fanboi.
I have already adddressed that there isn't any thing in SWG to encourge people to play togther anymore then COH several times already and you continue to ignore my responses
ow I challenge you: Name one thing you can do in CoH that I can't do in Freedom Force? I won't even exclude anything like you did with crafting and PvP.
Sure a more dynamic fighting system, more control over your choses, interaction with other players, ability to talk/commuicate, emotes, more interlocking complex story lines, more challenges, an open ended game, new content, more freedom to interact with the world, exploration of said world, a more personalised feeling for the game I'm sure others could think of more. Granted as you have stated to someone else most of these are inherent to MMORG, but also to reverse the question there are stand alone games in which you can explore, craft gamble ect. as you do in SWG as well. There is nothing inherenty unigue about MMORG except the fact that you can interact with real people while playing...which is my point that there isn't anything particularly unique about game content and that it is just percieved. You essential ask a qustion that supports the problem I have with people who complain about game content.
I'm fine with you disagreeing and you are entitled to your opinion, but you're not being honest about it. You keep ignoring my response an just restating the same two issue over and over rotating them. As soon as I address that there isnothing unique about SWG you talk about how engaging the crafting system is and it promotes interaction. And, when I address that you just begin talking about how unigue SWG content is again, which I have already addressed. That is not an intellectually fair way to discuss the matter and is just being avoident of my responses. YOu are using an argumentative fallacy called bait and switch.
Wow do you even read my posts? I've listed a bunch of stuff that has nothing to do with crafting and yet that's
Yes which we have already established that there really isn't anything in SWG that you can't do in COH and you never responded to (I as well as other already talked about dancing, fisheing gambling and how you can do these in COH as well) which you keep coming back to crafting, which I admit COH doesn't have and stated it for all to read from the get go. I admit if crafting is your thing COH isn't for you. Yet you keep posting about how SWG has other content that COH doesn't have which I keep debunking and when faced with a counter argument you respond with how great the crafting in SWG is. That's not a discussion that's running away hoping you can't be commited to anything you say. I addressed crafting in my previous post as a precurser to you switching your position again.
Haven't we had the "you don't need anyone is SWG" argument before? I think it was you, maybe not, so I'll say it again: You CANNOT be a medic and an entertainer and a weaponsmith and an armorsmith and a combat class. You can't, and even if you could, you can't also be a tailor to make the parts that an armorsmith needs, or a scout to get the organics that an armorsmith needs, and still be a master artisan to get the parts that the weaponsmith needs.
While you are right that you can't be everything at the same time you can be enough that you don't need someone else. All you need is novice medic which is only 15 points you can be a combat class and a crafter and still have points to spend. All crafters can harvest. Any items you need (as I have said before, which you havn't addressed) you can make your armor/wepons store up plenty then drop the class or buy from an NPC vendor/bazzar. Which many people do. Also, any raw/crafted materials you can buy on the bazzaar or from venders ie you don't need anyone else. As "I" already established you choose to associate with other people and the fact that some one else collected these items in stead of the fact that they were generated by the game system add little if not nothing to the game. You can and many do aquire any item that can be harvested or crafted and never speak to another person. How hard is it to understand if that is the case...that you chose to interact with people when you aquire thses items? It would seem to be self evident and this is the third time I have made this assertion that you have yet to address, but keep posting that some how SWG crafting makes you relient on others.
You call me an SWG fanboi, and fine go ahead, but you're wrong, I do see all the problems it has, but it is the ONLY game on the market today that has what I think an MMO needs: A reason to be played online. A reason for there to be 10 thousand other people running around.
And that reason for you is crafting...I disagree that it makes people interact and don't think crafting is a big draw to a game for most people.
You were saying that COH wasn't as good because it doesn't have as much content as games such as SWG (which sometime means crafting and sometimes other things as well dependent on where we are in the discussion) and you defend your assertion by continually modifing your stance. That's why I called you a fanboi.
I have already adddressed that there isn't any thing in SWG to encourge people to play togther anymore then COH several times already and you continue to ignore my responses
ow I challenge you: Name one thing you can do in CoH that I can't do in Freedom Force? I won't even exclude anything like you did with crafting and PvP.
Sure a more dynamic fighting system, more control over your choses, interaction with other players, ability to talk/commuicate, emotes, more interlocking complex story lines, more challenges, an open ended game, new content, more freedom to interact with the world, exploration of said world, a more personalised feeling for the game I'm sure others could think of more. Granted as you have stated to someone else most of these are inherent to MMORG, but also to reverse the question there are stand alone games in which you can explore, craft gamble ect. as you do in SWG as well. There is nothing inherenty unigue about MMORG except the fact that you can interact with real people while playing...which is my point that there isn't anything particularly unique about game content and that it is just percieved. You essential ask a qustion that supports the problem I have with people who complain about game content.
I'm fine with you disagreeing and you are entitled to your opinion, but you're not being honest about it. You keep ignoring my response an just restating the same two issue over and over rotating them. As soon as I address that there isnothing unique about SWG you talk about how engaging the crafting system is and it promotes interaction. And, when I address that you just begin talking about how unigue SWG content is again, which I have already addressed. That is not an intellectually fair way to discuss the matter and is just being avoident of my responses. YOu are using an argumentative fallacy called bait and switch.
First of all....sorry for the long quote
Next, I've been looking at these boards for over a month. I used to say to myself when Jodokai posting things about nothing to do besides fight, I thought "I won't ever be sick of combat in CoH so why would i need anything else. Now 1 month and 22 lvls later, I agree with him.
The combat does get repetitive and since the only thing you CAN do is fight i find myself playing less and less each day.
I also agree with another of Jodokai's points: There ARE many crafters and it IS an important part of any game. The only reason I got and played SWG was because of the crafting. Also, if crafting is irrelevant to the game, how come so many games have it. Horizons and SWG have excellent crafting systems.
Anyways, that's my two cents on this whole argument!
________________________________ MMORPG's Im currently playing: The Sims Online, Second Life, Asherons Call 2, EVE, and City of Heroes
MMORPG's I've played: Star Wars Galaxies, Anarchy Online DAOC, EQ, WW2 Online, and Knight Online
The combat does get repetitive and since the only thing you CAN do is fight i find myself playing less and less each day.
I think that has a lot to do with were COH is right now in it's stage of development. A lot of games become repetitive after about 6 months even SWG did with all it's "content." It's been long enogh that people have gotten tired of it reptivness (which i'm not arguing that COH isn't repetitive just not any more so then other MMORG), but not long enough to have enough content added for a new influx of people. That's a problem with all MMORG and one of the major factors they have only a solid tier commuinty for about 2-3 years: is that they ar always playing catch up for their oldest members...If you are a new player the cotent become more submersive for longer but as an older player you get excited about new content and it doesn't become to long for it to be old content because all you were doing was expeincing the new comtent for 2-3 weeks that took the developers 4 months to develope. But, if you are a newer player it only adds to the content you haven't experience yet.
if crafting is irrelevant to the game, how come so many games have it. Horizons and SWG have excellent crafting systems.
Like I said I don't think crafting is fun for most people (I have met very few people who think the process of making things itelf, particularly in SWG, is fun after the first few times. If this wasn't true crafting macros wouldn't be a staple of SWG), but most people like having it in the game because it adds to the submersion of the game experience... economics is a huge aspect of games based upon LOOT/Items. Collecting Gold is a foundation of the fantasy genre and the more you can do with that gold adds to the submersion of the game (pointing out however, that buying stuff is not content). I'm actually very glad you pointed this out milhoan6 because it allows me to come full circle with what I originally stated.
Few I have discussed with believe that items is appropriate for a super hero genre game. Most believe that looting or or items dependency (for most super heroes) doesn't embody what being a super hero is about. That being the case obviously "crafting" really isn't an addition, but a distraction to the submersion of the game.
Which leads back to my original statement that many people just aren't enamored with the genre as much as they thought they would be. That playing a Superhero in a modern city doesn't have the same appeal as they though it was going to. And that's fair. It's just I don't think that is what many realize (not suggesting it's your position) is the reason for there disconnect with COH.
it's a rather involved idea and I realise people want to simplify their reasons for not being happy with a product, but it's not fair to potential consumers who are looking for honest feedback about the game. who honestly would enjoy the game, to be told there is a lack of content when in comparison to the MMORG market that's not really an accurate assement.
This is what I have said from the beginning that has gotten lost somewhat as I have verbally uncovered Jodokai's agenda to inflate SWG's effectiviness as an enjoyable MMORG
The combat does get repetitive and since the only thing you CAN do is fight i find myself playing less and less each day.
I think that has a lot to do with were COH is right now in it's stage of development. A lot of games become repetitive after about 6 months even SWG did with all it's "content." It's been long enogh that people have gotten tired of it reptivness (which i'm not arguing that COH isn't repetitive just not any more so then other MMORG), but not long enough to have enough content added for a new influx of people. That's a problem with all MMORG and one of the major factors they have only a solid tier commuinty for about 2-3 years: is that they ar always playing catch up for their oldest members...If you are a new player the cotent become more submersive for longer but as an older player you get excited about new content and it doesn't become to long for it to be old content because all you were doing was expeincing the new comtent for 2-3 weeks that took the developers 4 months to develope. But, if you are a newer player it only adds to the content you haven't experience yet.
if crafting is irrelevant to the game, how come so many games have it. Horizons and SWG have excellent crafting systems.
Like I said I don't think crafting is fun for most people (I have met very few people who think the process of making things itelf, particularly in SWG, is fun after the first few times. If this wasn't true crafting macros wouldn't be a staple of SWG), but most people like having it in the game because it adds to the submersion of the game experience... economics is a huge aspect of games based upon LOOT/Items. Collecting Gold is a foundation of the fantasy genre and the more you can do with that gold adds to the submersion of the game (pointing out however, that buying stuff is not content). I'm actually very glad you pointed this out milhoan6 because it allows me to come full circle with what I originally stated.
Few I have discussed with believe that items is appropriate for a super hero genre game. Most believe that looting or or items dependency (for most super heroes) doesn't embody what being a super hero is about. That being the case obviously "crafting" really isn't an addition, but a distraction to the submersion of the game.
Which leads back to my original statement that many people just aren't enamored with the genre as much as they thought they would be. That playing a Superhero in a modern city doesn't have the same appeal as they though it was going to. And that's fair. It's just I don't think that is what many realize (not suggesting it's your position) is the reason for there disconnect with COH.
it's a rather involved idea and I realise people want to simplify their reasons for not being happy with a product, but it's not fair to potential consumers who are looking for honest feedback about the game. who honestly would enjoy the game, to be told there is a lack of content when in comparison to the MMORG market that's not really an accurate assement.
This is what I have said from the beginning that has gotten lost somewhat as I have verbally uncovered Jodokai's agenda to inflate SWG's effectiviness as an enjoyable MMORG
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I think you might've gotten the wrong impression from this post. I DO enjoy CoH and no time soon will I be cancelling my account, I just wish that the game had something else to do besides fight. I am very excited for the PvP arena coming soon (hopefully). I want something that when i get sick of fighting, I don't log off and play a different game (WoW, for example) and that I think will keep players playing longer.
I totally agree with you about the loot, it has NO place in a super-hero game. However, I would like to see crafting along the lines of: crafting different and more powerful enhancements, customized weapons, and other player-created equipment. I would also like to see a player-driver economy, where all these items real people have made other real people can purchase and use them.
These are the things I think would just make a great game near perfect!
________________________________ MMORPG's Im currently playing: The Sims Online, Second Life, Asherons Call 2, EVE, and City of Heroes
MMORPG's I've played: Star Wars Galaxies, Anarchy Online DAOC, EQ, WW2 Online, and Knight Online
Yes which we have already established that there really isn't anything in SWG that you can't do in COH and you never responded to (I as well as other already talked about dancing, fisheing gambling and how you can do these in COH as well)
Really? Tell me how to go fishing in CoH. I must have missed that. Tell me how to have a band play at your wedding in CoH missed that too. Now here's the real challenge: Tell me how to decorate your house in CoH. As far as the gambling, sure two people can get together and say "I'll be you..." but if the other doesn't pay you can't do anything about it. So if there is no risk is it really gambling? See and not once did I mention crafting.
which you keep coming back to crafting, which I admit COH doesn't have and stated it for all to read from the get go. I admit if crafting is your thing COH isn't for you. Yet you keep posting about how SWG has other content that COH doesn't have which I keep debunking and when faced with a counter argument you respond with how great the crafting in SWG is.
You haven't "debunked" one single argument. Not one. You are the one asking what you can do in SWG you can't do in CoH, I name a whole bunch of stuff and you can't say anything. In CoH the O N L Y thing to do is fight if you want to advance your character. Can you advance your character by dancing? Nope. Can you have player events that amount to more than useless dancing or a costume contest? Nope. Can you in SWG? Yep. There that is two things you can do in SWG that have nothing to do with crafting.
That's not a discussion that's running away hoping you can't be commited to anything you say. I addressed crafting in my previous post as a precurser to you switching your position again, but you instead use it as a lead in to continue disscussing about crafting.
Huh? I have no idea what you're saying, but please remember you're not the only one posting, so everything I say isn't always directed at you.
While you are right that you can't be everything at the same time you can be enough that you don't need someone else. All you need is novice medic which is only 15 points you can be a combat class and a crafter and still have points to spend. All crafters can harvest. Any items you need (as I have said before, which you havn't addressed) you can make your armor/wepons store up plenty then drop the class or buy from an NPC vendor/bazzar. Which many people do. Also, any raw/crafted materials you can buy on the bazzaar or from venders ie you don't need anyone else. As "I" already established you choose to associate with other people and the fact that some one else collected these items in stead of the fact that they were generated by the game system add little if not nothing to the game. You can and many do aquire any item that can be harvested or crafted and never speak to another person. How hard is it to understand if that is the case...that you chose to interact with people when you aquire thses items? It would seem to be self evident and this is the third time I have made this assertion that you have yet to address, but keep posting that some how SWG crafting makes you relient on others in away that causes people to interact. This is far less encouragement to interact then ouns for grouping, a supportive theme/genre for grouping or content that requires grouping to expierence.
Get real. Do you honestly believe this is a feasable solution? Please. So what are you going to do when a better material spawns for your weapons or armor. Drop everything so you can harvest it and grind to master armor or weaponsmith again make more of the updated stuff then drop it and re-grind your combat again? Please. Unless you buy into this rediculous logic, you NEED other people in SWG (you also missed the point of before you grind armorsmtih you have to grind tailor to make all the parts the armorsmith needs, then drop Tailor etc. etc.). Even the fact that you could, in theory, do this it shows another aspect that you can't do in CoH. Get to level 30 and don't like being a scrapper? Re-Roll and start from scratch. In SWG you can pick up and slowly drop skills as you need them. I mean let's do some math: When I go out fighting I need mind buffs, and I need body buffs as well as my armor and weapons. So that means I need to be Master Dancer/Master Musican which is 182 Skill points. Then I need to be Master Doctor which is another 140 skill points, so now I've used 322 of my 250 skill points. That means I have -72 to get a combat class...err doesn't work so well does it?
And that reason for you is crafting...I disagree that it makes people interact and don't think crafting is a big draw to a game for most people.
I think you're the only one who's going to buy the swtiching from armorsmith/weaponsmith argument, so I actually need other people to collect hide, heal my wounds (mind wounds and body wounds) and to buff me. So again unless you actually think it's possible to be everything at once you need other people online with you. In CoH you don't
You were saying that COH wasn't as good because it doesn't have as much content as games such as SWG (which sometime means crafting and sometimes other things as well dependent on where we are in the discussion) and you defend your assertion by continually modifing your stance. That's why I called you a fanboi.
Again, I never said it didn't have content, I said there was nothing to do but fight. I don't modify my stance, I answer questions. Someone asked what SWG had that CoH doesn't I listed that. You said, what does it have besides Crafting and PvP and I answered that. In the future I will be sure to answer posts exactly like I am now, so everyone is clear what question I am answering.
I have already adddressed that there isn't any thing in SWG to encourge people to play togther anymore then COH several times already and you continue to ignore my responses
ow I challenge you: Name one thing you can do in CoH that I can't do in Freedom Force? I won't even exclude anything like you did with crafting and PvP.
Sure a more dynamic fighting system, more control over your choses, interaction with other players I can interact with other players in FF in multiplayer mode, ability to talk/commuicate, again multiplayer mode. emotes, more interlocking complex story lines, I disagree with this. The storylines were much better in FF. If I succeeded in a mission there were benefits that I saw. If I failed there were consequences. more challenges Not really, if you fail a mission and nothing happens, how is that challenging., an open ended game, new content, more freedom to interact with the world, exploration of said world You can explore the world in FF too., a more personalised feeling for the game I'm sure others could think of more. Wow this is totally worng. In FF I can make my characters look EXACTLY like I want to. I can re-skin any of them with no limits. I can also modify the way a power looks. There are definately more ways to customize in FF than in CoH. Granted as you have stated to someone else most of these are inherent to MMORG, but also to reverse the question there are stand alone games in which you can explore, craft gamble ect. as you do in SWG as well. There is nothing inherenty unigue about MMORG except the fact that you can interact with real people while playing...which is my point that there isn't anything particularly unique about game content and that it is just percieved. You essential ask a qustion that supports the problem I have with people who complain about game content.
I'm not complaining about game content. CoH has more missions than probably any game MMO out there. It HAS to because it doesn't have anything else to do. SWG has something CoH doesn't. Whether you want to believe it or not, you need other people online...or at least I do. I don't like being an entertainer, so I need them to buff and heal my mind, and I don't want a doctor so I need them too.
I'm fine with you disagreeing and you are entitled to your opinion, but you're not being honest about it. You keep ignoring my response an just restating the same two issue over and over rotating them. As soon as I address that there isnothing unique about SWG you talk about how engaging the crafting system is and it promotes interaction. And, when I address that you just begin talking about how unigue SWG content is again, which I have already addressed. That is not an intellectually fair way to discuss the matter and is just being avoident of my responses. YOu are using an argumentative fallacy called bait and switch.
You aren't reading. You asked for something besides Crafting. I give you dancing, gambling, fishing, Player events like the Smuggler's Run event I described, wedding planning and executing with bands of player characters that can play different instuments and do different dances. You dismiss all of that by saying "Oh we've already talked about that" and somehow saying that we've already talked about negates the validity of the argument. These are things that have nothing to do with crafting that you can do in SWG that you CANNOT do in CoH.
The only real problem here is we have to many critics without a game to play. Jodokai why have you not started up EQ2 yet, crafters heaven?
Have you heard of Second Life? Crafting, houses, decorating, games, fishing etc. Another one I think you would enjoy. CoH does not waste time on these side games.
The only reason I spare the time from playing the supposedly ''boring'' CoH is so that people who check out this forum to see if its worth playing get a balanced view.
Can you elaborate for us these ''events'' in SWG which we cant do on CoH? Apart from fishing and sewing (sorry crafting) circles.
We need to have other people in CoH for teaming. Even if we did not, lets say that in CoH you dont need anyone at all. So what? I find no less socialising and roleplay than AO, a game with loads of crafting and player interdependency. (I take the point you may not have intended us to think this was the case) The reason to play a online game is not that you need other people to press keys to help you in crafting, it is to interact with them!
We move on to FF and find that a offline game has a better storyline and more visible game consequences than CoH or for that matter any MMORPG, wow Sherlock don't they all
To come back time after time after time moaning about CoH shows an agenda on your part to my mind. If the game is mediocre why keep coming back to tell us again and again and again, is it really worth your time?
Finally Jodokai we are taking you away form your fishing in SWG, dont let us keep you.
after playin many MMORPGs, specially in betas, I found myself 2 basic kinds, the ones good to go and the betas... 2 examples at hand: WoW and CoH... ive played both closed betas and i can tell that WoW took longer than CoH basically because of the will to release a game with content to keep players busy until the first important patch (not intended to come out so soon)... in CoH many of the updates comin out r all stuff that we asked a long time ago. in my second week of beta i asked about the temporary powers, they r cool, but just pull players to think that their chars can never b as complete as they wanted to, most of players in CoH started playin because they wanted to b a superman, batman, spawn or something... a superman without cape, without laserbeams comin out of his eyes, without super agility and movement speed... all stuff that r comin out in the patches now.
now check out wow, ppl asked for more stuff to interact with the enviroment (example: get this bottle, go to palce X, fill the bottle with Y substance, go to place Z, thrown the bottle on the object W, sit down and enjoy the show, take the fragments of W, get back to the quest master, collect ur reawrd b it money, items and ur XP bonus), capes, more stuff to "craft", racial traits, more kinds of transports, more kinds of enemies with different ability and weakness, they delayed the release to make up for that and many other changes.
i remember when i first saw CoH, no more than an improved Freedom Force, like 1 year later a totally different game, better graphics and interface, but also lost a lot of the content planned untill the 1st version.
i see u guys r talkin a lot about hamidon... man when hamidon first appeared they told us where and when... about 40-50 heroes all lvl38+ came to attend the call, patrollin the sky i saw something comin real fast, warned the guys but not fast enough to avoid some casual deaths... a stupid plan came out from a kcidhead, but yet there isnt much to do about hamidon, not the kind of mega-cosmic threat we wanted...
about onyxia (WoW ubber monster)... about 40 guys lvl 55+ came to raid it and i tell u, only discipline and strategy or 100 guys can beat it... i wont describe... just see for urself... the Onyxia Attempt
P.S.: Just one more lil thing... this one im still laughin since first suggested... some guy asked this "Hey! When the Rikti and other world events appeared didnt the main heroes appear to help in the battle? So where the heck is Statesman when we need him?!? Watchin the show and havin some food?". LoL. Its like the nazis invadin america and captain america is somewhere else doin god knows what. ;P
The only real problem here is we have to many critics without a game to play. Jodokai why have you not started up EQ2 yet, crafters heaven?
I have started playing EQ2 and so far I enjoy it.
Have you heard of Second Life? Crafting, houses, decorating, games, fishing etc. Another one I think you would enjoy. CoH does not waste time on these side games.
I have heard of it but don't know too much about it. You call it wasting time, I call it something to do besides fight.
The only reason I spare the time from playing the supposedly ''boring'' CoH is so that people who check out this forum to see if its worth playing get a balanced view.
I do the same thing. I come here (to answer the second part of you question asked later) to debate. I like hearing other people's opinion on something and since that's what these forums are here for, I figure this is the best place to do it. I don't go to the CoH website and start bashing the game, I don't always post constructivly and feel it would be bad form to go there and bash away, but here at MMORPG.com I feel that's what these forums are for.
Can you elaborate for us these ''events'' in SWG which we cant do on CoH? Apart from fishing and sewing (sorry crafting) circles.
I beleive if you look earlier in this thread, I described Smuggler's Run event, but in case it was in a different thread I'll describe it again: Basically someone went to the SWG website and went to the Server Forum and posted a story. He was a rebel sympathizer and needed to get a secret weapon to the rebels and wanted to hire smugglers to do it. He had broken the weapon up into parts so if one smuggler didn't make it, not much was lost. They were to pick up the parts at one place and then go through some checkpoints to figure out the final destination. A little way into it, there was a traitor in the orginization and the names of the smugglers were leaked to the empire who then hired Bounty Hunters to go after the smugglers. If a BH found a smuggler he would send the smuggler a private message with a code word so the smuggler would know that the BH was really part of the event, then the smuggler had to accept the challenge of the dual. He could run but he had to accept the challenge. It was a blast, and this is just one of the minor events that is the easiest to describe. They have gotten quite elaborate.
We need to have other people in CoH for teaming. Even if we did not, lets say that in CoH you dont need anyone at all. So what? I find no less socialising and roleplay than AO, a game with loads of crafting and player interdependency. (I take the point you may not have intended us to think this was the case) The reason to play a online game is not that you need other people to press keys to help you in crafting, it is to interact with them!
I can interact with other people in a multiplayer game. I play Counterstrike and interact with people throughout the whole game, why do I need to pay $15 a month for that? I reason I pay to play, is becasue I can't play the game by myself. I'm paying for a reason to have other people online with me.
We move on to FF and find that a offline game has a better storyline and more visible game consequences than CoH or for that matter any MMORPG, wow Sherlock don't they all
Okay that's great you can take a sentence out of context to make a point Sherlock. Now try putting everything back together so it sounds like what I had intended.
To come back time after time after time moaning about CoH shows an agenda on your part to my mind. If the game is mediocre why keep coming back to tell us again and again and again, is it really worth your time?
I don't come here moaning. I have no delusions anymore. I know what this game is and what it isn't. You ask me questions then wonder why I come back to answer them?
Finally Jodokai we are taking you away form your fishing in SWG, dont let us keep you.
Actually you are keeping me from a game that has substance and a reason to be $180 a year. I'm glad I'm not doing the same to you.
Comments
If you go back and read, I've stated a lot of things this game doesn't have that others do. There's even a thread where I use some weak examples from SWG. The two most important things that CoH is lacking is:
1. Something to do besides fight. I don't consider a costume contest something to do, and I can Role-Play on any MMO so that's not valid either. In SWG if you don't want to fight, AND you don't want to craft, you can fish, you can gamble, you can decorate your house, you can plan and execute a wedding/party and the list goes on and on.
2. A reason to have other people online with you. That one is pretty self explainatory. You don't NEED anyone else like you do is SWG.
Yes I do have some aggressive statements, but I get sick of people saying how revolutionary this game is. They haven't done ANYTHING that Diablo II hasn't done, except you have to pay monthly for this version of it.
If the games in MMORPGs were as good as that then they are worth playing as an add on to MMORPG game. Otherwise a game should stick to content developing the core game not side games.
I dont expect any game to be a sort of Jack of all Trades. Do what is important really well thats all. Also I dont expect to pay my monthly fee and have my entire entertainment for the month sorted for me. I dont expect to play it for 24 hours a day every day of the month and not want to do something else.
Where are those darn movie premieres and MP3 downloads on CoH anyway? :-)I guess you just don't get it...you don't need anyone else in SWG. You choose do socialise with people in SWG...just like you choose to in COH. The only reason you might need someone in SWG is if your a crafter to buy your stuff. However, if your buying stuff the fact that someone made instead of it being an NPC has litte/no value. also, the only thing you can do in SWG other then fight that you can't do in COH is craft, which has a very limited appeal.
And as I said when I responded to posts about the lack of "content" what can you do other the crafting (which I find for many to be pointless) and PVP which is coming. You just keep using circular logic. Ok, we get it your a SWG fanboi and like to craft. Obviously COH won't be for you or people lkike you with that same mind set. However those people are a very small minority.
hey bet you nvr even weent to HAmidon and the games is gettin better you Poozer!!!
first try and understand I have played allmost every other game on the market and htis one is simply the best how about you understand the fun of playing a game and not having another fulltime Job(aka crafting crap)and there is also badges and alot of other stuff coming out for lower people to enjoy. Also PVP ok DAOC prime example LAG LAG LAG LAG and then lag some more what fun even witht he updates you lag more than you fight. If u have noticed COh has less lag than any other game out which makesit more than worth the waitr for it to get better. Remember Anarchy Oline was really bad at first and now it has a huge Following let the game develop it hasnt been out a year!! Or go play Evercrap the blackhole of the MMROPG universe!
Haven't we had the "you don't need anyone is SWG" argument before? I think it was you, maybe not, so I'll say it again:
You CANNOT be a medic and an entertainer and a weaponsmith and an armorsmith and a combat class. You can't, and even if you could, you can't also be a tailor to make the parts that an armorsmith needs, or a scout to get the organics that an armorsmith needs, and still be a master artisan to get the parts that the weaponsmith needs. It is impossible you only have 250 skill points and you can only master a few professions. You NEED other people in SWG even if you NEVER touch a crafting tool. You NEED them there to do more than just talk.
You call me an SWG fanboi, and fine go ahead, but you're wrong, I do see all the problems it has, but it is the ONLY game on the market today that has what I think an MMO needs: A reason to be played online. A reason for there to be 10 thousand other people running around.
now I challenge you: Name one thing you can do in CoH that I can't do in Freedom Force? I won't even exclude anything like you did with crafting and PvP.
Scot,
I am a big fan of side games in MMO's. If all I wanted to do was fight I would play a single player game.
Jodokai what you need is CoH the Crafting addition!
Yes we will let you sew your own costumes, smith your own tin suit and clean your own gun! :-)
This stuff is boring, play a proper management game like Civ, or EVE. You must agree that these things were put in by MMORPG developers to use up player time, they were not put in to be something interesting to do on a par with the main game. Thank the comic book gods CoH has nothing like that.
Though I have heard rumours we will get crafting. Bottom line is that some people like you check a game has this before they will buy, so Cryptic will tarnish its superhero comic feel game play to rake in more customers.
Ok what does CoH have that is better than FF? This is comparing a MMORPG to a stand alone game but ok. It is not first person or 3rd person like CoH can be. Graphics of CoH are much better. Enormously larger playing area. Better feel e.g when flying in CoH you really feel much more thats what your doing. Far more people to game with. You will notice that many of my arguments could be applied to why any MMORPG is better than FF, but much the same could be said if you compared Morrowind to EQII. Btw FF is one of my favourite games if you cant play CoH for some reason buy it!
OK, first of all I am a current subscriber to CoH and I love it. But I also agree with Jodokai that the game DOES need crafting or another time-killer other than killing (arresting) enemies.
Crafting may be boring to you, but to state that it is boring like it was a fact is just plain incorrect. I also played SWG for around 6 months and, much like Jodokai, the only reason i stayed in SWG was because of the awesome crafting. I don't know where you're pulling this management stuff from, but I don't think anyone stated anything about management (unless you consider crafting "management"). Anyways, that's my two cents on this whole issue
P.S. I heard that CoH is going to have crafting with the release of CoH. Saw a thread about it on the official forums once a long time ago.
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MMORPG's Im currently playing: The Sims Online, Second Life, Asherons Call 2, EVE, and City of Heroes
MMORPG's I've played: Star Wars Galaxies, Anarchy Online DAOC, EQ, WW2 Online, and Knight Online
Scot,
Not only is most of what you said inherant of most other MMO's it is all essentially graphics. If they updated the FF graphics engine, they could be exactly the same game. Actually FF might be a little better due to the fact you could feel like you effect the enviornment.
I will be the first to admit that, though while some of my comments get harsh, CoH has a great foundation. There is little to no lag even in the most crowded areas, the graphics are top notch, the stories are pretty good (TF missions need some work). This is a great place to start. If CoH adds some other things to do besides fight, I'm there, I'll turn into one of the biggest supporters of this game, until then, I can get the same out of a free Single Player game.
I also want to retract something I said in my earlier post. I said that SWG offers something no other MMO has on the market, a reason to have other people online with you. I haven't played a lot of the MMO's on the market so I don't know if there's another game that makes you dependant on others. I do know that you don't need other people in AC2, CoH, EQ, EQ2, WoW, or Horizions (and so far in the Matrix Beta you don't either)
this is the best MMROPG ever
1. has least lag
2. great graphics
3. very young game runs very smoothly future looks bright except for the evil marvel crap.
4. updates so far have been really fun
5. equal opportunity for casual and hard core gamer
6. what does this game not have and yes you will have to spell it out to me.
I agree with every one of your points and i will answer your question on number 6.
First of all, I like this game a lot and to me it is the best MMORPG to date. The only thing it DOES need is something to pass the time when you feel like you don't wanna kill baddies. Sure you could go badge collecting but most of them you STILL have to kill bad guys to get them. Don't get me wrong I love the combat and all, but when i get sick of fighting, I just log off. When I played SWG, when i was sick of fighting I moved onto crafting. My point is is that CoH needs something else to do then fight. Crafting, PvP (which i know is coming soon so please don't say it again lol), or any other thing like that.
Crafting would hold players attention for longer and would attract crafting lovers (like me) to the game.
I hope I got my point across to you!
P.S. I am currently a subscriber to CoH and have no intention of leaving
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MMORPG's Im currently playing: The Sims Online, Second Life, Asherons Call 2, EVE, and City of Heroes
MMORPG's I've played: Star Wars Galaxies, Anarchy Online DAOC, EQ, WW2 Online, and Knight Online
I already have numerous times in this thread. All you have to do is read it.
At level 35 I had all the skills that interested me. I had already done a "respec" mission. I had almost 4 million influence and all the SO's that I required. I realized I had nothing more to play for. My friend made 35 around the same time I did and came to the same conclusion. Had alot of fun with this game, but without anything to spend your influence on besides some "cool effects" and a few new costumes, there just wasn't any motivation to continue.
My friend and I both agree'd that maybe they could offer some "uber" enhancements that cost say.. 1 million each..or more, that would justify not giving your influence to noobs.
One day I logged on, called out to the zone "giving away 99,999 influence to anyone who opens a trade window with me". I was in Steel Canyon where that amount still meant something... I looked like I was feeding pigeons. A large crowd collected around me. I should have snagged a screen shot. Eventually I ran out of influence and logged off. It was like leaving a girlfriend you loved but just couldn't be with anymore.
Someday a game like City of Heroes will come out with all the fun, and enough content to keep you interested. I am currently playing EQ2, and I haven't a clue whats going on. I mine, gather, chop wood..kill. I get butterflies, tin clusters, canine saliva, parsley and coffee beans. I would save all this crap until I learn what to do with it but with only 8 slots in my bank and no ability to store loot in my "apartment" I am forced to delete most of it as I go.
I miss Ultima Online.
I have seen the Arctic Circle... And it is round.
Wow do you even read my posts? I've listed a bunch of stuff that has nothing to do with crafting and yet that's
Yes which we have already established that there really isn't anything in SWG that you can't do in COH and you never responded to (I as well as other already talked about dancing, fisheing gambling and how you can do these in COH as well) which you keep coming back to crafting, which I admit COH doesn't have and stated it for all to read from the get go. I admit if crafting is your thing COH isn't for you. Yet you keep posting about how SWG has other content that COH doesn't have which I keep debunking and when faced with a counter argument you respond with how great the crafting in SWG is. That's not a discussion that's running away hoping you can't be commited to anything you say. I addressed crafting in my previous post as a precurser to you switching your position again.
Haven't we had the "you don't need anyone is SWG" argument before? I think it was you, maybe not, so I'll say it again:
You CANNOT be a medic and an entertainer and a weaponsmith and an armorsmith and a combat class. You can't, and even if you could, you can't also be a tailor to make the parts that an armorsmith needs, or a scout to get the organics that an armorsmith needs, and still be a master artisan to get the parts that the weaponsmith needs.
While you are right that you can't be everything at the same time you can be enough that you don't need someone else. All you need is novice medic which is only 15 points you can be a combat class and a crafter and still have points to spend. All crafters can harvest. Any items you need (as I have said before, which you havn't addressed) you can make your armor/wepons store up plenty then drop the class or buy from an NPC vendor/bazzar. Which many people do. Also, any raw/crafted materials you can buy on the bazzaar or from venders ie you don't need anyone else. As "I" already established you choose to associate with other people and the fact that some one else collected these items in stead of the fact that they were generated by the game system add little if not nothing to the game. You can and many do aquire any item that can be harvested or crafted and never speak to another person. How hard is it to understand if that is the case...that you chose to interact with people when you aquire thses items? It would seem to be self evident and this is the third time I have made this assertion that you have yet to address, but keep posting that some how SWG crafting makes you relient on others.
You call me an SWG fanboi, and fine go ahead, but you're wrong, I do see all the problems it has, but it is the ONLY game on the market today that has what I think an MMO needs: A reason to be played online. A reason for there to be 10 thousand other people running around.
And that reason for you is crafting...I disagree that it makes people interact and don't think crafting is a big draw to a game for most people.
You were saying that COH wasn't as good because it doesn't have as much content as games such as SWG (which sometime means crafting and sometimes other things as well dependent on where we are in the discussion) and you defend your assertion by continually modifing your stance. That's why I called you a fanboi.
I have already adddressed that there isn't any thing in SWG to encourge people to play togther anymore then COH several times already and you continue to ignore my responses
ow I challenge you: Name one thing you can do in CoH that I can't do in Freedom Force? I won't even exclude anything like you did with crafting and PvP.
Sure a more dynamic fighting system, more control over your choses, interaction with other players, ability to talk/commuicate, emotes, more interlocking complex story lines, more challenges, an open ended game, new content, more freedom to interact with the world, exploration of said world, a more personalised feeling for the game I'm sure others could think of more. Granted as you have stated to someone else most of these are inherent to MMORG, but also to reverse the question there are stand alone games in which you can explore, craft gamble ect. as you do in SWG as well. There is nothing inherenty unigue about MMORG except the fact that you can interact with real people while playing...which is my point that there isn't anything particularly unique about game content and that it is just percieved. You essential ask a qustion that supports the problem I have with people who complain about game content.
I'm fine with you disagreeing and you are entitled to your opinion, but you're not being honest about it. You keep ignoring my response an just restating the same two issue over and over rotating them. As soon as I address that there isnothing unique about SWG you talk about how engaging the crafting system is and it promotes interaction. And, when I address that you just begin talking about how unigue SWG content is again, which I have already addressed. That is not an intellectually fair way to discuss the matter and is just being avoident of my responses. YOu are using an argumentative fallacy called bait and switch.
First of all....sorry for the long quote
Next, I've been looking at these boards for over a month. I used to say to myself when Jodokai posting things about nothing to do besides fight, I thought "I won't ever be sick of combat in CoH so why would i need anything else. Now 1 month and 22 lvls later, I agree with him.
The combat does get repetitive and since the only thing you CAN do is fight i find myself playing less and less each day.
I also agree with another of Jodokai's points: There ARE many crafters and it IS an important part of any game. The only reason I got and played SWG was because of the crafting. Also, if crafting is irrelevant to the game, how come so many games have it. Horizons and SWG have excellent crafting systems.
Anyways, that's my two cents on this whole argument!
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MMORPG's Im currently playing: The Sims Online, Second Life, Asherons Call 2, EVE, and City of Heroes
MMORPG's I've played: Star Wars Galaxies, Anarchy Online DAOC, EQ, WW2 Online, and Knight Online
The combat does get repetitive and since the only thing you CAN do is fight i find myself playing less and less each day.
I think that has a lot to do with were COH is right now in it's stage of development. A lot of games become repetitive after about 6 months even SWG did with all it's "content." It's been long enogh that people have gotten tired of it reptivness (which i'm not arguing that COH isn't repetitive just not any more so then other MMORG), but not long enough to have enough content added for a new influx of people. That's a problem with all MMORG and one of the major factors they have only a solid tier commuinty for about 2-3 years: is that they ar always playing catch up for their oldest members...If you are a new player the cotent become more submersive for longer but as an older player you get excited about new content and it doesn't become to long for it to be old content because all you were doing was expeincing the new comtent for 2-3 weeks that took the developers 4 months to develope. But, if you are a newer player it only adds to the content you haven't experience yet.
if crafting is irrelevant to the game, how come so many games have it. Horizons and SWG have excellent crafting systems.
Like I said I don't think crafting is fun for most people (I have met very few people who think the process of making things itelf, particularly in SWG, is fun after the first few times. If this wasn't true crafting macros wouldn't be a staple of SWG), but most people like having it in the game because it adds to the submersion of the game experience... economics is a huge aspect of games based upon LOOT/Items. Collecting Gold is a foundation of the fantasy genre and the more you can do with that gold adds to the submersion of the game (pointing out however, that buying stuff is not content). I'm actually very glad you pointed this out milhoan6 because it allows me to come full circle with what I originally stated.
Few I have discussed with believe that items is appropriate for a super hero genre game. Most believe that looting or or items dependency (for most super heroes) doesn't embody what being a super hero is about. That being the case obviously "crafting" really isn't an addition, but a distraction to the submersion of the game.
Which leads back to my original statement that many people just aren't enamored with the genre as much as they thought they would be. That playing a Superhero in a modern city doesn't have the same appeal as they though it was going to. And that's fair. It's just I don't think that is what many realize (not suggesting it's your position) is the reason for there disconnect with COH.
it's a rather involved idea and I realise people want to simplify their reasons for not being happy with a product, but it's not fair to potential consumers who are looking for honest feedback about the game. who honestly would enjoy the game, to be told there is a lack of content when in comparison to the MMORG market that's not really an accurate assement.
This is what I have said from the beginning that has gotten lost somewhat as I have verbally uncovered Jodokai's agenda to inflate SWG's effectiviness as an enjoyable MMORG
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The combat does get repetitive and since the only thing you CAN do is fight i find myself playing less and less each day.
I think that has a lot to do with were COH is right now in it's stage of development. A lot of games become repetitive after about 6 months even SWG did with all it's "content." It's been long enogh that people have gotten tired of it reptivness (which i'm not arguing that COH isn't repetitive just not any more so then other MMORG), but not long enough to have enough content added for a new influx of people. That's a problem with all MMORG and one of the major factors they have only a solid tier commuinty for about 2-3 years: is that they ar always playing catch up for their oldest members...If you are a new player the cotent become more submersive for longer but as an older player you get excited about new content and it doesn't become to long for it to be old content because all you were doing was expeincing the new comtent for 2-3 weeks that took the developers 4 months to develope. But, if you are a newer player it only adds to the content you haven't experience yet.
if crafting is irrelevant to the game, how come so many games have it. Horizons and SWG have excellent crafting systems.
Like I said I don't think crafting is fun for most people (I have met very few people who think the process of making things itelf, particularly in SWG, is fun after the first few times. If this wasn't true crafting macros wouldn't be a staple of SWG), but most people like having it in the game because it adds to the submersion of the game experience... economics is a huge aspect of games based upon LOOT/Items. Collecting Gold is a foundation of the fantasy genre and the more you can do with that gold adds to the submersion of the game (pointing out however, that buying stuff is not content). I'm actually very glad you pointed this out milhoan6 because it allows me to come full circle with what I originally stated.
Few I have discussed with believe that items is appropriate for a super hero genre game. Most believe that looting or or items dependency (for most super heroes) doesn't embody what being a super hero is about. That being the case obviously "crafting" really isn't an addition, but a distraction to the submersion of the game.
Which leads back to my original statement that many people just aren't enamored with the genre as much as they thought they would be. That playing a Superhero in a modern city doesn't have the same appeal as they though it was going to. And that's fair. It's just I don't think that is what many realize (not suggesting it's your position) is the reason for there disconnect with COH.
it's a rather involved idea and I realise people want to simplify their reasons for not being happy with a product, but it's not fair to potential consumers who are looking for honest feedback about the game. who honestly would enjoy the game, to be told there is a lack of content when in comparison to the MMORG market that's not really an accurate assement.
This is what I have said from the beginning that has gotten lost somewhat as I have verbally uncovered Jodokai's agenda to inflate SWG's effectiviness as an enjoyable MMORG
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I think you might've gotten the wrong impression from this post. I DO enjoy CoH and no time soon will I be cancelling my account, I just wish that the game had something else to do besides fight. I am very excited for the PvP arena coming soon (hopefully). I want something that when i get sick of fighting, I don't log off and play a different game (WoW, for example) and that I think will keep players playing longer
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I totally agree with you about the loot, it has NO place in a super-hero game. However, I would like to see crafting along the lines of: crafting different and more powerful enhancements, customized weapons, and other player-created equipment. I would also like to see a player-driver economy, where all these items real people have made other real people can purchase and use them.
These are the things I think would just make a great game near perfect!
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MMORPG's Im currently playing: The Sims Online, Second Life, Asherons Call 2, EVE, and City of Heroes
MMORPG's I've played: Star Wars Galaxies, Anarchy Online DAOC, EQ, WW2 Online, and Knight Online
The only real problem here is we have to many critics without a game to play. Jodokai why have you not started up EQ2 yet, crafters heaven?
Have you heard of Second Life? Crafting, houses, decorating, games, fishing etc. Another one I think you would enjoy. CoH does not waste time on these side games.
The only reason I spare the time from playing the supposedly ''boring'' CoH is so that people who check out this forum to see if its worth playing get a balanced view.
Can you elaborate for us these ''events'' in SWG which we cant do on CoH? Apart from fishing and sewing (sorry crafting) circles.
We need to have other people in CoH for teaming. Even if we did not, lets say that in CoH you dont need anyone at all. So what? I find no less socialising and roleplay than AO, a game with loads of crafting and player interdependency. (I take the point you may not have intended us to think this was the case) The reason to play a online game is not that you need other people to press keys to help you in crafting, it is to interact with them!
We move on to FF and find that a offline game has a better storyline and more visible game consequences than CoH or for that matter any MMORPG, wow Sherlock don't they all
To come back time after time after time moaning about CoH shows an agenda on your part to my mind. If the game is mediocre why keep coming back to tell us again and again and again, is it really worth your time?
Finally Jodokai we are taking you away form your fishing in SWG, dont let us keep you.
after playin many MMORPGs, specially in betas, I found myself 2 basic kinds, the ones good to go and the betas... 2 examples at hand: WoW and CoH... ive played both closed betas and i can tell that WoW took longer than CoH basically because of the will to release a game with content to keep players busy until the first important patch (not intended to come out so soon)... in CoH many of the updates comin out r all stuff that we asked a long time ago. in my second week of beta i asked about the temporary powers, they r cool, but just pull players to think that their chars can never b as complete as they wanted to, most of players in CoH started playin because they wanted to b a superman, batman, spawn or something... a superman without cape, without laserbeams comin out of his eyes, without super agility and movement speed... all stuff that r comin out in the patches now.
now check out wow, ppl asked for more stuff to interact with the enviroment (example: get this bottle, go to palce X, fill the bottle with Y substance, go to place Z, thrown the bottle on the object W, sit down and enjoy the show, take the fragments of W, get back to the quest master, collect ur reawrd b it money, items and ur XP bonus), capes, more stuff to "craft", racial traits, more kinds of transports, more kinds of enemies with different ability and weakness, they delayed the release to make up for that and many other changes.
i remember when i first saw CoH, no more than an improved Freedom Force, like 1 year later a totally different game, better graphics and interface, but also lost a lot of the content planned untill the 1st version.
i see u guys r talkin a lot about hamidon... man when hamidon first appeared they told us where and when... about 40-50 heroes all lvl38+ came to attend the call, patrollin the sky i saw something comin real fast, warned the guys but not fast enough to avoid some casual deaths... a stupid plan came out from a kcidhead, but yet there isnt much to do about hamidon, not the kind of mega-cosmic threat we wanted...
about onyxia (WoW ubber monster)... about 40 guys lvl 55+ came to raid it and i tell u, only discipline and strategy or 100 guys can beat it... i wont describe... just see for urself... the Onyxia Attempt
P.S.: Just one more lil thing... this one im still laughin since first suggested... some guy asked this "Hey! When the Rikti and other world events appeared didnt the main heroes appear to help in the battle? So where the heck is Statesman when we need him?!? Watchin the show and havin some food?". LoL. Its like the nazis invadin america and captain america is somewhere else doin god knows what. ;P