Ok the relpy i posted here was removed from this thread,I dont understand why but when I login here it seem I got 1 new message but if I check my messages it is empty.Well I dont understand why the reply was deletet but maby the moderators are getting payed from blizzard for deleting posts that are not wow friendly,I'm gona paste my original reply here and I bet that will get me perma banned from these forums, and in that case I dont care. It seem to me that you are wellcome to troll and talk shit about some games but if you say you dont like another game the threads are deletet and you get banned.I wish to find a good mmorpg forum that are not bought by blizzard or any other developer so you are allowed to say what you want about any game you wish to love ore hate. Here is what I wrote and this harmeless words were removed from here just becouse mmorpg. com seem to get payed by blizzard. "I must say that I love wow,dont missunderstand me I dont like to play that game at all but it keeps most of the arrogant childish gamers from real mmorpg's and therfore most other mmo games have a great comunity free of those kids whoms parents pay wow's monthly fee just to get rid of their kids."
Well now befor I push the reply buttom Ill copy this for later use.
That's hilarious that you don't understand why it was taken down.
You didn't criticize the game, you criticized the people who play a game......oh what am I explaining for - you can't possibly understand.
I very much understand why im getting banned , that is becouse I did say something about blizzards game and wow's comunity, those same words spoken about darkfall or EQ" would not have resultet in same.
I hear they have coded messages in your Alphabits cereal too.
Have to agree with the OP, I just want a good game that caters to my tastes. If there's ever to be a WOW killer it will have to cater to the casual gaming crowd just like WOW does, therefore it probably won't appeal to me. (for long anyways)
WOW is what it is, nothing I really concern myself over for quite some time.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Ok the relpy i posted here was removed from this thread,I dont understand why but when I login here it seem I got 1 new message but if I check my messages it is empty.Well I dont understand why the reply was deletet but maby the moderators are getting payed from blizzard for deleting posts that are not wow friendly,I'm gona paste my original reply here and I bet that will get me perma banned from these forums, and in that case I dont care. It seem to me that you are wellcome to troll and talk shit about some games but if you say you dont like another game the threads are deletet and you get banned.I wish to find a good mmorpg forum that are not bought by blizzard or any other developer so you are allowed to say what you want about any game you wish to love ore hate. Here is what I wrote and this harmeless words were removed from here just becouse mmorpg. com seem to get payed by blizzard. "I must say that I love wow,dont missunderstand me I dont like to play that game at all but it keeps most of the arrogant childish gamers from real mmorpg's and therfore most other mmo games have a great comunity free of those kids whoms parents pay wow's monthly fee just to get rid of their kids."
Well now befor I push the reply buttom Ill copy this for later use.
That's hilarious that you don't understand why it was taken down.
You didn't criticize the game, you criticized the people who play a game......oh what am I explaining for - you can't possibly understand.
I very much understand why im getting banned , that is becouse I did say something about blizzards game and wow's comunity, those same words spoken about darkfall or EQ" would not have resultet in same.
I hear they have coded messages in your Alphabits cereal too.
Om du bara viste hur djävla dum du är, du tror att du är bäst i världen pressis som alla andra amerikanare, så fatttar inte du att det finns andra språk än engelska och just därför är du pressis lika dum som dina landsman som tror att amerika gränsar mot texas i söder.
Ilvaldyr has already said pretty much everything I was going to in this thread. (I agree with you 100% dude.)
All I want is a game that is as good as wow without being so horribly monotonous. A game where finding groups isn't such a grueling task (in other words, it doesn't take 2 hours to find a group for something) and where you can actually do some solo stuff at the end.
Once they come out with an MMO that is as good as wow without being as boring, I'll be hooked.
You do not want a game that can compete with WoW. if you like WoW, then you're happy with the MMROPG market right now, and you can go play WoW. if you don't like WoW, you're trolling forums like this one, reading about MMORPGs and looking for something good to releasee. you're disappointed by the latest releases like AoC, WAR, Darkfall, etc. And some of you are wondering when WoW will finally fall as the King of the MMORPG hill, when some game that is newer and better than WoW will finally come out to knock WoW off the top of the hill. Why? Who cares really? When you think about it, any game that beats WoW will be like WoW. It will be a casual, solo friendly game for the masses. If I wanted that, I'd just go play WoW right now. I'm looking for something different. So it won't matter to me when some game beats WoW, because I won't like it, and neither will you. What you want is a game that is successful enough to stay in business, 100 to 200K subs, and caters to the niche game design you are looking for. That's not going to be a WoW killer, so why ask for one?
I'm sorry to say this but you could not be more wrong. What I want and I honestly believed what most people want desperately is another wow killer. I do know a small group of people absolutely hated wow and another group who don't like it very much. However, there are still a majority of us who been playing wow for quite some time and one of the main reason why we quit is not because it is bad or take a turn for the worse. Many of us quit mainly because of the been there done that syndrome. No matter how good a game is, a player attention span can only stay in that game for so long before trying to look for a greener pasture. Sadly for us, there isn't really one out there we can really look forward to. (with the exception of blizzard new mmo that wouldn't be here for while some time)
I am a heart a very hardcore player and I burn through content like a fat man at a buffet bar. Furthermore, people keep missing the MM in the MMORPG. For that reason alone we want the game to be a massive success, a wow killer, a game where it caster to the newbie, the casual, yet deep enough that even the very best veteran have trouble mastering. This concept remind me very much of a Chinese game called Go. The game is so simple in term of rule and anyone from the age of 6 to 60 can grasp the concept of the game and play within the very first hour, yet it is so complex in term of strategy and manuvering that even the best computer in the world can can't an average pro. So I guess you might be curious on why I a person like me would want a game that I play to be tained with the casual, the newbie, and content that even a child can beat. The main reason behind this is because although I am a hardcore player, and many of my friends are. There still alot more people I know that aren't and I would love it very much for me to be able to play a game with them also. Furthermore, even me sometime would like to shut off my mind and go do some simple solo content where I don't require to interact with another anyone at all.
By making a game that is both casual friendly with enough side content for a person not only to solo but also to break the monotomy of having to force grouping one instance after another. Not everything have to be hard with powerful reward and required a group of at least 5 people to quest through. Sometime I would simple want to set sail on a boat out to sea and go fishing (Vanguard). Fly around the beautiful and lush world of one of my 50 epic mounts to enjoy the sceanery (WoW). Pull out a simple instrument and play some clasical music or make trying to jam to the beat of I'm too Sexy for my shirt (Lotro). And sometime, I simple want to kill some simple crustation to get the ingredient for my crab kabob (FFXI). Variety is the key, by having ton and ton so solo content combind with solo group content. It will not only ensure that you have a game that everyone can enjoy, but it also make it all the much harder for you to get bored.
Time and time again, I don't understand why people constantly discounting WoW. Out of all the game I've played so far, none have come close to the level of skill and complexity required for a person to beat a raid content that wow have to offer. I have to dodge aoe poision, I have to manage mobs for the caster to aoe, I have to run in a specific order, I have to be mindful of my debuff, I have to push damage, I have to beat the clock, I have to do all kind of stuff and jump through all kind of hoops in order to down most raid boss in WoW. Those kind of things takes skills, pratice and good team coordiation to achieve and even when you do manage to kill him. Try to do it again in heroic mode and see just how much harder it can be. Now that you do beat him the boss in heroic mode, try to do some of those raid achievement to prove not only are you good enough to beat those raid boss, you are good enough to beat them in some of them most unfavorable situation. People alway complain about how much wow lack in content, yet they don't give them enough credit on how well design those content are. To this day, you still see people who log online everyone to play De_Dust in counter strike or play Defense of the Ancient in Warcraft III or doing Baal run in Diablo III. These content so old yet because it is so well design that you can still see people playing today. Quality matter, quantity alone wont cut it.
Like I say earlier, by catering a game to both the hardcore and the casual and keep the spec low enough that it could be run on most gaming pc makes you game available to a much wider audience such as my girlfriend who hate grouping but enjoy crafting and soloing so much, or my bestfriend who have a computer that old enough to have a driving permit (okay I might have exagerate the computer thing a little bit, but you get my point). It gives me the hardcore player that much more incentive to play the game now that I have people close and dear to me playing it. Furthermore, if they happen to love the game and where it going, it make it that much harder for people like me to quit the game.
Last but not least, more player mean more income for the developer which ultimately translate to giving them more incentive to improve the game. By simple having enough for subscription for the game to be viable, it would simple mean that the developer will only do enough to keep it viable. Once again look at WoW, if you were to look that the amount of people working on that MMO compare to game like EQ2, Darkfall, or Lotro. The disparity between the two is staggering. If one game only make enough income to afford to hire a group of let say 20 developer and coder compater to the other who have over 200. Which of the two do you think would be able to pump out more content at higher quality with less bug? To have a team of that many developer, designer, and coder like the later, a subscription of two or three hundred thousand simply won't cut it.
Seriously people, I honestly don't know why I keep seeing so much hate and animosity toward WoW and the casual game in the forum to the point that I really do think people want developer to make a game so hard and convoluted to the point where it prevent all casual gamer all together from playing. Stop setteling for less and alway ask for more. More content for both the casual and hardcore. More extensive yet simple UI. More thing to do that are both fun and chalenging. More joke and humor and other totally unrealated to game progression. More vibrant world yet still still low enough in spec most pc can handle. More class, more skills, more diversity, more everything. If you settle for less, you get less. It is simple as that.
Honestly, World of Warcraft may be the best selling, but it doesn't mean the best. It is basically Everquest made over with the small difference of two major opposing factions. What really matters with MMORPGs is what each person likes, if the story line is good(and maybe unique) and can have a unique model. I believe all such games have their place. For my part, the ideal model should have a good and unique story line, more unique races(one reason I prefer Everquest/Everquest II and Dungeons and Dragons Online to World of Warcraft), and a balanced approach to solo and party play. I like to solo alot but get stuck at certain points where party play is required. Also, I think a good idea would be to allow people to select two races to create a hybrid. And would it kill them to introduce a playable vampire race. That would be frickin sweet.
All of this talk about a game being the "best" pointless. It is completely a matter of one's personal opinion. A game designer is never going to go around looking at the individual opinions of everyone, they want to know what they can do to cater to the desires of the majority. They want to know what they can do to get the highest numbers of subscriptions. A few things have been apparent in this respect. Casual-friendly games get more subscription counts than hard-core games. Solo-focused games get more subscription counts than group-focused games. Whatever game offers the greatest reward for the least amount of effort (depending on your definition of reward, and effort, for that matter).
I quit WoW and refuse to go back to it because I know that it will never be any less monotonous than it already is and I know that finding groups will never be any easier than it already is. If a game is created that lacks these problems and doesn't introduce any new problems which WoW doesn't already have, then I will play that.
One reason I like City of Heroes/Villains. It sometimes get's a bit monotonous but the learning curve is easy and groups are fairly easy to find, though I tend to be groupaphobic, though close to level 10 you get your first group mission. DC Universe should be interesting, though I think the best upcoming games as far as playability will be Star Trek Online(seriously, getting your own ship and crew is a pretty nice idea) and, if it ever launches, Stargate Worlds. Star Wars: The Old Republic might also turn out to be a gem, and Aion is worth consideration due to the movements dynamics being unique, in spite of flight in games having already been present. If these upcoming games deliver or not I have no idea. I am still behind on Lord of the Rings Online due to technical issues.
Originally posted by IlvaldyrI'm gonna weigh in on this particular point; since the much-repeated "popular doesn't mean good!" argument is one that is flung around far too often on these forums.
Oh ok, in the MMOG world popular does mean good? Right because there's a rulebook on this type of thing and it's not logical to presume MMOs are products just like anything else and sales numbers don't necessarily mean a product is the best. Wow...how can you be so ignorant and assume so many things?
Ignorance is defined as the condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed. I'm rarely any of those things. The reason that I specified the MMOG industry was because there are often comparisons made like "WoW is McDonalds, <insert game here> is prime steak!", and clearly there are variations in the price and availability of those two products, (which isn't true in the MMOG world), and hence the comparison is completely inaccurate.
Music is a better one, so I've no problem with you using that as a comparison reference.
The same rule applies to mainstream music, to blockbuster movies, to mainstream artforms of anykind, to sports, etc. SALES NUMBERS DO NOT MEAN SOMETHING IS BETTER OR WORSE. Sure there can be a correlation. But is Justin Timberlake any better than Josh Groban? (assuming you know who both of them are and if you don't they're both singers). I don't think so. Sure Justin Timberlake has sold a lot more records, made a ton more money than Josh Groban, but I own more Josh Groban albums than I do Justin Timberlake albums. It's just my preference.
Bingo. Preference and Bingo not better or worse.
The issue is whether popular means good, not whether it means the best.
Whether you like Justin Timberlake or Josh Groban, it doesn't matter.
There mere fact that both are still successfully plying their music means that, despite presumably appealing to different markets, both can be considered good at what they do. The MMOG market is no different.
"...we all have different likes and dislikes where MMOGs are concerned, but it's unreasonable to operate on the princliple that every game that you like is "good" and that every game that you dislike is "bad"" Excuse me, but when did I ever say anything like that? How can you say that from the quote you pulled in your message? And I don't believe that I've said WoW sucks or is a bad game, I simply have stated that I don't like it and I prefer a different type of MMO.
You've got some serious issues with disrespecting people and I don't appreciate you completely making up or assuming things that you think I would say. I think I've been very logical and fair with my argument and all you do is come on here and make stupid generalizations and rude remarks with no grouds for doing so.
Oh yeah by the way. Everything is very available to everyone now because of the INTERNET. So how does availability and subscription fees have anything to do with anything?
Ok, re-read the quoted part of my previous post that I've left above and you'll clearly see that my post was a general response to the "Popular does not mean good!" sound-bite, and try to stop taking things so damn personally.
Your responses to Josher and I in this thread have been more emotional/adversarial than they have been logical because you're debating on a false assumption, neither Josher or I are saying that WoW is the best, merely that it is a good game.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Popular just simply means that something has a fan base and is well marketed. It is like in the entertainment industry. The best made movies and the most talented actors are not necessarily the ones who will be the most marketable. Popularity is a function of public perception and publicity/marketing. I consider the best video games, likewise, being the ones that are most superior artistically and functionally with the best story line. If you follow the masses and do not take time to consider the artistry of it, you are missing the point and failing to appreciate what the designers did. Video game design is a form of art after all. Don't get me wrong, World of Warcraft is in my line up as well, but it can become quite monotonous, and I do have to cycle through the ones that get boring to keep from getting bored.
Oh, for the record, I am involved in the entertainment industry, so my understanding of how branding works does carry some weight.
I disagree with the idea that only games that are similar to WoW can beat WoW.
Besides, it all depends on the focus of the game that's being made really. If the focus is to beat WoW in the same gameplay style, then of course, you will get a game that resemble WoW but done a bit better. But if the focus is to create something with the WoW effect (i.e. bringing more people to MMORPG genre, showing that these type of games can become), then such game does not have to be similar to WoW in terms of gameplay styles.
Basically, depend on beating WoW in WHAT AREA, the game will differ in different areas (Sandbox, PvP, etc...). Unless you want a game to beat WoW at its own turf (PvE, massive appeal), then you may get a game that may achieve it, but not likely.
Forcan, I couldn't have said it better myself. I personally felt the Everquest series tended to be more dynamic and original, but Blizzard does have more marketing money to go around, so they quickly edged out Sony Online Entertainment's Everquest and Everquest II for the top spot. Hardcore Warcrack Addicts will never admit to something being better in any part of the game. Casual players tend to cycle through multiple games giving them a better point of comparison. So far, the most unique MMO I have played, even briefly, was The Matrix Online. Never much understood what the object was, but the uniqueness did have a special draw. My first MMO was the first MMO, Lineage(the original one), very fun game.........after that it wasn't much longer until Everquest was released. I cycle through about 6 different games on a regular basis(and have a bit of overstock of one MMORPG I was planning to resale but The Lich King got in the way.....d**n Blizzard). To me, there are three essential elements to a successful MMO: visually and artistically stunning, a unique and well designed storyline, and playability(user interface). Also, for the record, Lord of the Rings Online is standing on equal footing with World of Warcraft at the moment.
Ok the relpy i posted here was removed from this thread,I dont understand why but when I login here it seem I got 1 new message but if I check my messages it is empty.Well I dont understand why the reply was deletet but maby the moderators are getting payed from blizzard for deleting posts that are not wow friendly,I'm gona paste my original reply here and I bet that will get me perma banned from these forums, and in that case I dont care. It seem to me that you are wellcome to troll and talk shit about some games but if you say you dont like another game the threads are deletet and you get banned.I wish to find a good mmorpg forum that are not bought by blizzard or any other developer so you are allowed to say what you want about any game you wish to love ore hate. Here is what I wrote and this harmeless words were removed from here just becouse mmorpg. com seem to get payed by blizzard. "I must say that I love wow,dont missunderstand me I dont like to play that game at all but it keeps most of the arrogant childish gamers from real mmorpg's and therfore most other mmo games have a great comunity free of those kids whoms parents pay wow's monthly fee just to get rid of their kids."
Well now befor I push the reply buttom Ill copy this for later use.
That's hilarious that you don't understand why it was taken down.
You didn't criticize the game, you criticized the people who play a game......oh what am I explaining for - you can't possibly understand.
I very much understand why im getting banned , that is becouse I did say something about blizzards game and wow's comunity, those same words spoken about darkfall or EQ" would not have resultet in same.
I hear they have coded messages in your Alphabits cereal too.
Om du bara viste hur djävla dum du är, du tror att du är bäst i världen pressis som alla andra amerikanare, så fatttar inte du att det finns andra språk än engelska och just därför är du pressis lika dum som dina landsman som tror att amerika gränsar mot texas i söder.
Je suis desole, mais, je ne comprends pas. Peut etre, si vous ecrivez en anglai eu en francais.....chacun a son gout.
You do not want a game that can compete with WoW. if you like WoW, then you're happy with the MMROPG market right now, and you can go play WoW. if you don't like WoW, you're trolling forums like this one, reading about MMORPGs and looking for something good to releasee. you're disappointed by the latest releases like AoC, WAR, Darkfall, etc. And some of you are wondering when WoW will finally fall as the King of the MMORPG hill, when some game that is newer and better than WoW will finally come out to knock WoW off the top of the hill. Why? Who cares really? When you think about it, any game that beats WoW will be like WoW. It will be a casual, solo friendly game for the masses. If I wanted that, I'd just go play WoW right now. I'm looking for something different. So it won't matter to me when some game beats WoW, because I won't like it, and neither will you. What you want is a game that is successful enough to stay in business, 100 to 200K subs, and caters to the niche game design you are looking for. That's not going to be a WoW killer, so why ask for one?
Mmmmmm I'm not sure about this, but I think you have it wrong.
The people who want an MMO that caters to their wants are people who never really enjoyed WoW or they aren't "WoW noobs". They don't care if WoW sticks around or not, they just want an MMO they can play with 100-200k subs and have fun. The people who scream for a WoW killer are mostly WoW noobs who are tired of WoW. Here you're mixing them up and saying that people are asking for both, which I don't think is the case.
Forcan, I couldn't have said it better myself. I personally felt the Everquest series tended to be more dynamic and original, but Blizzard does have more marketing money to go around, so they quickly edged out Sony Online Entertainment's Everquest and Everquest II for the top spot. Hardcore Warcrack Addicts will never admit to something being better in any part of the game. Casual players tend to cycle through multiple games giving them a better point of comparison. So far, the most unique MMO I have played, even briefly, was The Matrix Online. Never much understood what the object was, but the uniqueness did have a special draw. My first MMO was the first MMO, Lineage(the original one), very fun game.........after that it wasn't much longer until Everquest was released. I cycle through about 6 different games on a regular basis(and have a bit of overstock of one MMORPG I was planning to resale but The Lich King got in the way.....d**n Blizzard). To me, there are three essential elements to a successful MMO: visually and artistically stunning, a unique and well designed storyline, and playability(user interface). Also, for the record, Lord of the Rings Online is standing on equal footing with World of Warcraft at the moment.
Lineage was not the first mmo lineage came out in 1998, UO came out in 1997, and UO wasnt even the first MMO.
Sic semper tyrannis "Democracy broke down, not when the Union ceased to be agreeable to all its constituent States, but when it was upheld, like any other Empire, by force of arms."
Then they advertised themselves incorrectly. I clearly remember Lineage as being advertised as the first. Though it is possible that a foreign version may have been released prior to the American version.
I absolutely want a game just like WoW that isn't WoW. I love the Matrix trilogy too but likewise I'd be very happy if something as good but different came along. We've had some glimmers along the way LotRO, AoC, VG, EQ2, WAR fantasy wise but none of them really implemented the entire 'WoW factor'.
I beta a lot of MMOs and frankly I don't see a whole lot coming down the fantasy pipe to knock WoW off the top for the 'can play one game forever' crowd. But man I wish there was a current technology, casual friendly, woohoo combat, quest driven MMO out there. Most of the WoW competition fails at the same thing for me... woohoo combat. My rogue in WoW had that kaboom factor for stealth attacks, warrior has the charge, paly has his nah nah ne nah nah bubbles. Competition really is missing that. They got the world thing down, quests check, casual check... but combat is a bit dry in comparison. Ie I'm not sure that without a quest requiring combat, that I would plant myself in one camp for fight for levels. In WoW I could for hours on end without getting bored.
CoX also nails the combat thing, being able to choose what you want to fight within a level range helps a lot here too.
Problem is all Fantasy RPGs follow the format of the old Dungeons and Dragons games, which was based of the Lord of the Rings books but made different. Dungeons and Dragons gave way to Final Fantasy in the 80s and from there on, it was pretty much built around that model for the next 20 odd years with few true innovations. When someone breaks from that formula is when we will see true innovation.
Comments
That's hilarious that you don't understand why it was taken down.
You didn't criticize the game, you criticized the people who play a game......oh what am I explaining for - you can't possibly understand.
I very much understand why im getting banned , that is becouse I did say something about blizzards game and wow's comunity, those same words spoken about darkfall or EQ" would not have resultet in same.
I hear they have coded messages in your Alphabits cereal too.
Have to agree with the OP, I just want a good game that caters to my tastes. If there's ever to be a WOW killer it will have to cater to the casual gaming crowd just like WOW does, therefore it probably won't appeal to me. (for long anyways)
WOW is what it is, nothing I really concern myself over for quite some time.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
WoW isn't casual why can't you people understand this~~~~~~~
That's hilarious that you don't understand why it was taken down.
You didn't criticize the game, you criticized the people who play a game......oh what am I explaining for - you can't possibly understand.
I very much understand why im getting banned , that is becouse I did say something about blizzards game and wow's comunity, those same words spoken about darkfall or EQ" would not have resultet in same.
I hear they have coded messages in your Alphabits cereal too.
Om du bara viste hur djävla dum du är, du tror att du är bäst i världen pressis som alla andra amerikanare, så fatttar inte du att det finns andra språk än engelska och just därför är du pressis lika dum som dina landsman som tror att amerika gränsar mot texas i söder.
Ilvaldyr has already said pretty much everything I was going to in this thread. (I agree with you 100% dude.)
All I want is a game that is as good as wow without being so horribly monotonous. A game where finding groups isn't such a grueling task (in other words, it doesn't take 2 hours to find a group for something) and where you can actually do some solo stuff at the end.
Once they come out with an MMO that is as good as wow without being as boring, I'll be hooked.
I'm sorry to say this but you could not be more wrong. What I want and I honestly believed what most people want desperately is another wow killer. I do know a small group of people absolutely hated wow and another group who don't like it very much. However, there are still a majority of us who been playing wow for quite some time and one of the main reason why we quit is not because it is bad or take a turn for the worse. Many of us quit mainly because of the been there done that syndrome. No matter how good a game is, a player attention span can only stay in that game for so long before trying to look for a greener pasture. Sadly for us, there isn't really one out there we can really look forward to. (with the exception of blizzard new mmo that wouldn't be here for while some time)
I am a heart a very hardcore player and I burn through content like a fat man at a buffet bar. Furthermore, people keep missing the MM in the MMORPG. For that reason alone we want the game to be a massive success, a wow killer, a game where it caster to the newbie, the casual, yet deep enough that even the very best veteran have trouble mastering. This concept remind me very much of a Chinese game called Go. The game is so simple in term of rule and anyone from the age of 6 to 60 can grasp the concept of the game and play within the very first hour, yet it is so complex in term of strategy and manuvering that even the best computer in the world can can't an average pro. So I guess you might be curious on why I a person like me would want a game that I play to be tained with the casual, the newbie, and content that even a child can beat. The main reason behind this is because although I am a hardcore player, and many of my friends are. There still alot more people I know that aren't and I would love it very much for me to be able to play a game with them also. Furthermore, even me sometime would like to shut off my mind and go do some simple solo content where I don't require to interact with another anyone at all.
By making a game that is both casual friendly with enough side content for a person not only to solo but also to break the monotomy of having to force grouping one instance after another. Not everything have to be hard with powerful reward and required a group of at least 5 people to quest through. Sometime I would simple want to set sail on a boat out to sea and go fishing (Vanguard). Fly around the beautiful and lush world of one of my 50 epic mounts to enjoy the sceanery (WoW). Pull out a simple instrument and play some clasical music or make trying to jam to the beat of I'm too Sexy for my shirt (Lotro). And sometime, I simple want to kill some simple crustation to get the ingredient for my crab kabob (FFXI). Variety is the key, by having ton and ton so solo content combind with solo group content. It will not only ensure that you have a game that everyone can enjoy, but it also make it all the much harder for you to get bored.
Time and time again, I don't understand why people constantly discounting WoW. Out of all the game I've played so far, none have come close to the level of skill and complexity required for a person to beat a raid content that wow have to offer. I have to dodge aoe poision, I have to manage mobs for the caster to aoe, I have to run in a specific order, I have to be mindful of my debuff, I have to push damage, I have to beat the clock, I have to do all kind of stuff and jump through all kind of hoops in order to down most raid boss in WoW. Those kind of things takes skills, pratice and good team coordiation to achieve and even when you do manage to kill him. Try to do it again in heroic mode and see just how much harder it can be. Now that you do beat him the boss in heroic mode, try to do some of those raid achievement to prove not only are you good enough to beat those raid boss, you are good enough to beat them in some of them most unfavorable situation. People alway complain about how much wow lack in content, yet they don't give them enough credit on how well design those content are. To this day, you still see people who log online everyone to play De_Dust in counter strike or play Defense of the Ancient in Warcraft III or doing Baal run in Diablo III. These content so old yet because it is so well design that you can still see people playing today. Quality matter, quantity alone wont cut it.
Like I say earlier, by catering a game to both the hardcore and the casual and keep the spec low enough that it could be run on most gaming pc makes you game available to a much wider audience such as my girlfriend who hate grouping but enjoy crafting and soloing so much, or my bestfriend who have a computer that old enough to have a driving permit (okay I might have exagerate the computer thing a little bit, but you get my point). It gives me the hardcore player that much more incentive to play the game now that I have people close and dear to me playing it. Furthermore, if they happen to love the game and where it going, it make it that much harder for people like me to quit the game.
Last but not least, more player mean more income for the developer which ultimately translate to giving them more incentive to improve the game. By simple having enough for subscription for the game to be viable, it would simple mean that the developer will only do enough to keep it viable. Once again look at WoW, if you were to look that the amount of people working on that MMO compare to game like EQ2, Darkfall, or Lotro. The disparity between the two is staggering. If one game only make enough income to afford to hire a group of let say 20 developer and coder compater to the other who have over 200. Which of the two do you think would be able to pump out more content at higher quality with less bug? To have a team of that many developer, designer, and coder like the later, a subscription of two or three hundred thousand simply won't cut it.
Seriously people, I honestly don't know why I keep seeing so much hate and animosity toward WoW and the casual game in the forum to the point that I really do think people want developer to make a game so hard and convoluted to the point where it prevent all casual gamer all together from playing. Stop setteling for less and alway ask for more. More content for both the casual and hardcore. More extensive yet simple UI. More thing to do that are both fun and chalenging. More joke and humor and other totally unrealated to game progression. More vibrant world yet still still low enough in spec most pc can handle. More class, more skills, more diversity, more everything. If you settle for less, you get less. It is simple as that.
Honestly, World of Warcraft may be the best selling, but it doesn't mean the best. It is basically Everquest made over with the small difference of two major opposing factions. What really matters with MMORPGs is what each person likes, if the story line is good(and maybe unique) and can have a unique model. I believe all such games have their place. For my part, the ideal model should have a good and unique story line, more unique races(one reason I prefer Everquest/Everquest II and Dungeons and Dragons Online to World of Warcraft), and a balanced approach to solo and party play. I like to solo alot but get stuck at certain points where party play is required. Also, I think a good idea would be to allow people to select two races to create a hybrid. And would it kill them to introduce a playable vampire race. That would be frickin sweet.
All of this talk about a game being the "best" pointless. It is completely a matter of one's personal opinion. A game designer is never going to go around looking at the individual opinions of everyone, they want to know what they can do to cater to the desires of the majority. They want to know what they can do to get the highest numbers of subscriptions. A few things have been apparent in this respect. Casual-friendly games get more subscription counts than hard-core games. Solo-focused games get more subscription counts than group-focused games. Whatever game offers the greatest reward for the least amount of effort (depending on your definition of reward, and effort, for that matter).
I quit WoW and refuse to go back to it because I know that it will never be any less monotonous than it already is and I know that finding groups will never be any easier than it already is. If a game is created that lacks these problems and doesn't introduce any new problems which WoW doesn't already have, then I will play that.
One reason I like City of Heroes/Villains. It sometimes get's a bit monotonous but the learning curve is easy and groups are fairly easy to find, though I tend to be groupaphobic, though close to level 10 you get your first group mission. DC Universe should be interesting, though I think the best upcoming games as far as playability will be Star Trek Online(seriously, getting your own ship and crew is a pretty nice idea) and, if it ever launches, Stargate Worlds. Star Wars: The Old Republic might also turn out to be a gem, and Aion is worth consideration due to the movements dynamics being unique, in spite of flight in games having already been present. If these upcoming games deliver or not I have no idea. I am still behind on Lord of the Rings Online due to technical issues.
Oh ok, in the MMOG world popular does mean good? Right because there's a rulebook on this type of thing and it's not logical to presume MMOs are products just like anything else and sales numbers don't necessarily mean a product is the best. Wow...how can you be so ignorant and assume so many things?
Ignorance is defined as the condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed. I'm rarely any of those things. The reason that I specified the MMOG industry was because there are often comparisons made like "WoW is McDonalds, <insert game here> is prime steak!", and clearly there are variations in the price and availability of those two products, (which isn't true in the MMOG world), and hence the comparison is completely inaccurate.
Music is a better one, so I've no problem with you using that as a comparison reference.
The same rule applies to mainstream music, to blockbuster movies, to mainstream artforms of anykind, to sports, etc. SALES NUMBERS DO NOT MEAN SOMETHING IS BETTER OR WORSE. Sure there can be a correlation. But is Justin Timberlake any better than Josh Groban? (assuming you know who both of them are and if you don't they're both singers). I don't think so. Sure Justin Timberlake has sold a lot more records, made a ton more money than Josh Groban, but I own more Josh Groban albums than I do Justin Timberlake albums. It's just my preference.
Bingo. Preference and Bingo not better or worse.
The issue is whether popular means good, not whether it means the best.
Whether you like Justin Timberlake or Josh Groban, it doesn't matter.
There mere fact that both are still successfully plying their music means that, despite presumably appealing to different markets, both can be considered good at what they do. The MMOG market is no different.
"...we all have different likes and dislikes where MMOGs are concerned, but it's unreasonable to operate on the princliple that every game that you like is "good" and that every game that you dislike is "bad"" Excuse me, but when did I ever say anything like that? How can you say that from the quote you pulled in your message? And I don't believe that I've said WoW sucks or is a bad game, I simply have stated that I don't like it and I prefer a different type of MMO.
You've got some serious issues with disrespecting people and I don't appreciate you completely making up or assuming things that you think I would say. I think I've been very logical and fair with my argument and all you do is come on here and make stupid generalizations and rude remarks with no grouds for doing so.
Oh yeah by the way. Everything is very available to everyone now because of the INTERNET. So how does availability and subscription fees have anything to do with anything?
Ok, re-read the quoted part of my previous post that I've left above and you'll clearly see that my post was a general response to the "Popular does not mean good!" sound-bite, and try to stop taking things so damn personally.
Your responses to Josher and I in this thread have been more emotional/adversarial than they have been logical because you're debating on a false assumption, neither Josher or I are saying that WoW is the best, merely that it is a good game.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Popular just simply means that something has a fan base and is well marketed. It is like in the entertainment industry. The best made movies and the most talented actors are not necessarily the ones who will be the most marketable. Popularity is a function of public perception and publicity/marketing. I consider the best video games, likewise, being the ones that are most superior artistically and functionally with the best story line. If you follow the masses and do not take time to consider the artistry of it, you are missing the point and failing to appreciate what the designers did. Video game design is a form of art after all. Don't get me wrong, World of Warcraft is in my line up as well, but it can become quite monotonous, and I do have to cycle through the ones that get boring to keep from getting bored.
Oh, for the record, I am involved in the entertainment industry, so my understanding of how branding works does carry some weight.
There is already simple solution ... everyone who wants WoW Killer should take target on Aion ( it's only possible title on MMO horizont)
Everyone else who is just waiting for something "different" ...Blade & Soul and T.E.R.A won't dissapoint u - just a bit longer...
Life - Subtelnie Cie Pierdole
Already have Aion on reserve. September 09......WooHoo.
I disagree with the idea that only games that are similar to WoW can beat WoW.
Besides, it all depends on the focus of the game that's being made really. If the focus is to beat WoW in the same gameplay style, then of course, you will get a game that resemble WoW but done a bit better. But if the focus is to create something with the WoW effect (i.e. bringing more people to MMORPG genre, showing that these type of games can become), then such game does not have to be similar to WoW in terms of gameplay styles.
Basically, depend on beating WoW in WHAT AREA, the game will differ in different areas (Sandbox, PvP, etc...). Unless you want a game to beat WoW at its own turf (PvE, massive appeal), then you may get a game that may achieve it, but not likely.
Current MMO: FFXIV:ARR
Past MMO: Way too many (P2P and F2P)
Forcan, I couldn't have said it better myself. I personally felt the Everquest series tended to be more dynamic and original, but Blizzard does have more marketing money to go around, so they quickly edged out Sony Online Entertainment's Everquest and Everquest II for the top spot. Hardcore Warcrack Addicts will never admit to something being better in any part of the game. Casual players tend to cycle through multiple games giving them a better point of comparison. So far, the most unique MMO I have played, even briefly, was The Matrix Online. Never much understood what the object was, but the uniqueness did have a special draw. My first MMO was the first MMO, Lineage(the original one), very fun game.........after that it wasn't much longer until Everquest was released. I cycle through about 6 different games on a regular basis(and have a bit of overstock of one MMORPG I was planning to resale but The Lich King got in the way.....d**n Blizzard). To me, there are three essential elements to a successful MMO: visually and artistically stunning, a unique and well designed storyline, and playability(user interface). Also, for the record, Lord of the Rings Online is standing on equal footing with World of Warcraft at the moment.
That's hilarious that you don't understand why it was taken down.
You didn't criticize the game, you criticized the people who play a game......oh what am I explaining for - you can't possibly understand.
I very much understand why im getting banned , that is becouse I did say something about blizzards game and wow's comunity, those same words spoken about darkfall or EQ" would not have resultet in same.
I hear they have coded messages in your Alphabits cereal too.
Om du bara viste hur djävla dum du är, du tror att du är bäst i världen pressis som alla andra amerikanare, så fatttar inte du att det finns andra språk än engelska och just därför är du pressis lika dum som dina landsman som tror att amerika gränsar mot texas i söder.
Je suis desole, mais, je ne comprends pas. Peut etre, si vous ecrivez en anglai eu en francais.....chacun a son gout.
Mmmmmm I'm not sure about this, but I think you have it wrong.
The people who want an MMO that caters to their wants are people who never really enjoyed WoW or they aren't "WoW noobs". They don't care if WoW sticks around or not, they just want an MMO they can play with 100-200k subs and have fun. The people who scream for a WoW killer are mostly WoW noobs who are tired of WoW. Here you're mixing them up and saying that people are asking for both, which I don't think is the case.
Lineage was not the first mmo lineage came out in 1998, UO came out in 1997, and UO wasnt even the first MMO.
Sic semper tyrannis "Democracy broke down, not when the Union
ceased to be agreeable to all its constituent States, but when it was upheld, like any other Empire, by force of arms."
Then they advertised themselves incorrectly. I clearly remember Lineage as being advertised as the first. Though it is possible that a foreign version may have been released prior to the American version.
I absolutely want a game just like WoW that isn't WoW. I love the Matrix trilogy too but likewise I'd be very happy if something as good but different came along. We've had some glimmers along the way LotRO, AoC, VG, EQ2, WAR fantasy wise but none of them really implemented the entire 'WoW factor'.
I beta a lot of MMOs and frankly I don't see a whole lot coming down the fantasy pipe to knock WoW off the top for the 'can play one game forever' crowd. But man I wish there was a current technology, casual friendly, woohoo combat, quest driven MMO out there. Most of the WoW competition fails at the same thing for me... woohoo combat. My rogue in WoW had that kaboom factor for stealth attacks, warrior has the charge, paly has his nah nah ne nah nah bubbles. Competition really is missing that. They got the world thing down, quests check, casual check... but combat is a bit dry in comparison. Ie I'm not sure that without a quest requiring combat, that I would plant myself in one camp for fight for levels. In WoW I could for hours on end without getting bored.
CoX also nails the combat thing, being able to choose what you want to fight within a level range helps a lot here too.
Problem is all Fantasy RPGs follow the format of the old Dungeons and Dragons games, which was based of the Lord of the Rings books but made different. Dungeons and Dragons gave way to Final Fantasy in the 80s and from there on, it was pretty much built around that model for the next 20 odd years with few true innovations. When someone breaks from that formula is when we will see true innovation.