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Raid Content?
Shorun
Member UncommonPosts: 247
Heyo Community,
I think of trying Vanguard again. But I have got a question: Is there much raid content?
I LOVE raiding, It's the most important thing in an MMO for me. So - does Vanguard have much to offer for a "Raider"? I mean, a little bit more than WoW. Something like EQ2. And - are Raid - Items equal / better than crafted items? I don't like it when crafted items are better than raid items...
And a question aside - are scouts solo-able (this game is a lot like EQ1+2, where scouts are very hard to solo)
Comments
Sorry I cannot help but notice the games you are "waiting" for, one of them being out, and I believe NONE of them will have raid content at all. Just strange you love raiding so much yet the 3 games you are looking forward to are not really about raiding at all. (Not positive on Agency but from what I watched in videos...)
There is one raid dungeon with a new one releasing very soon (hopefully). There is also a ton of overland mob raids, a couple raid zones (takes a well armed and good group to do). The raid dungeon itself is a great raid, I like it a lot better than most other games. That might not seem like much to be honest but it is. There literally is a lot of overland raid mobs and they are fun to go against to. They just released another raid dungeon that I have not been to yet, its a raid encounter in a place called the Bridge of Destiny. I really can't wait to try this one, plus if you don't have a character at 50 yet to jump right into the action its going to take awhile before you can get to the raid content. By that time the level increase and new dungeons will be out by then. Which will add a ton of new content and more raid content too.
Those Games are 3 MMOFPS and without Level-System.
I like playing 2 Games: 1 for PvE (which would be Vanguard) and 1 for PvP which would be one of the shooters. But I have to say - yes, it's annoying.
Here's a rundown of raid content in VG.
Dungeons:
Ancient Port Warehouse
Overland Mobs:
Tier 1
Jagund the Wavebreaker
Prime Warden of Nusibe
Nerksawl
Magicborn Abomination
Initiate Nenly
Dresla The Wyvern Queen
Si'lmr-Li The Harbinger
Tier 2
Summoner Physik
Summoner Rinipin
Summoner Yerkj
Fengrot Foulbreath
Guar the Earthen Destroyer
Summoner Nimaa
Varking the Accursed
Karax Woefather
That's all your raid content after 2 years. Nenly was recently added to the middle of Bridge of Destiny to serve as an easy mob for 24 man content for the guilds that can't hit the bigger targets. Most T1 mobs are figured out fairly quick and are farmed day in day out. The Summoners were added at the time of Bridge of Destiny/Isle of G launch. They are not the best encounters but are different but the loot is lackluster. Varking and Karax were both broken a while back and are unkillable in their current state.
So that's your raid content, if you're looking for something to the amount/level of EQ2, it won't be happening. And its an honest opinion since I test most raid content.
Rift: Storm Legion Raid Progression Tracker
There's a lot of raid content. Unless someone is in the most hard-core type of guild, there are very, very few that have gotten through all of it. For example, we have a middle-sized guild with a fairly dedicated raiding approach and we are just now to the point of killing the Dragon in APW.
Raid mechanics-wise, I think Vanguard has the best content. We've got a number of ex-WoW and ex-EQ2 players who have come to Vanguard for the raiding experience.
APW is kinda understated. I mean omg there is only one raid dungeon in the game that sucks. Well what isn't apparent is that the 1 raid dungeon is bigger then any raid dungeon in other games. I believe it has something like 28 raid bosses in multiple areas that can each be taken independently or as you get flagged for them. So if you evaluate it based on total number of raid targets then it has a very large amount of end tier raid content.
---
Ethion
APW is kinda understated. I mean omg there is only one raid dungeon in the game that sucks. Well what isn't apparent is that the 1 raid dungeon is bigger then any raid dungeon in other games. I believe it has something like 28 raid bosses in multiple areas that can each be taken independently or as you get flagged for them. So if you evaluate it based on total number of raid targets then it has a very large amount of end tier raid content.
Agreed, Ancient Port Warehouse is utterly massive with it's own lore, crafting diplomacy and quests. A non-hardcore guild would take about a year to get through it all.
APW is kinda understated. I mean omg there is only one raid dungeon in the game that sucks. Well what isn't apparent is that the 1 raid dungeon is bigger then any raid dungeon in other games. I believe it has something like 28 raid bosses in multiple areas that can each be taken independently or as you get flagged for them. So if you evaluate it based on total number of raid targets then it has a very large amount of end tier raid content.
Bigger than any other raid dungeon in other games? APW has
Entrance Wing
X77
X83
Vicus
Archon
Zaraax
Silliusaurus
Library Wing
Librarian
Palpenipe
Athriss
Malazath
Demetrius
Admiral
Marina Wing
Vercel
Shylosia
Vault Wing
Shiver
Exalted
Core
Basement Wing
Zaygius
Kotasoth
Looks like 19 bosses not 28. And most average guilds knock out the first 3 wings with in 2-3 weeks. Its not a large amount of raid content considering the game has been out for 2 years. And just because they stuffed them in one dungeon doesn't make it huge, it just means it saves resources so they don't have to make multiple dungeons.
Rift: Storm Legion Raid Progression Tracker
didn't all this new raid content come out in the last year? i think they have a lot more they are planning to add this year?
---
Ethion
APW is kinda understated. I mean omg there is only one raid dungeon in the game that sucks. Well what isn't apparent is that the 1 raid dungeon is bigger then any raid dungeon in other games. I believe it has something like 28 raid bosses in multiple areas that can each be taken independently or as you get flagged for them. So if you evaluate it based on total number of raid targets then it has a very large amount of end tier raid content.
Bigger than any other raid dungeon in other games? APW has
Entrance Wing
X77
X83
Vicus
Archon
Zaraax
Silliusaurus
Library Wing
Librarian
Palpenipe
Athriss
Malazath
Demetrius
Admiral
Marina Wing
Vercel
Shylosia
Vault Wing
Shiver
Exalted
Core
Basement Wing
Zaygius
Kotasoth
Looks like 19 bosses not 28. And most average guilds knock out the first 3 wings with in 2-3 weeks. Its not a large amount of raid content considering the game has been out for 2 years. And just because they stuffed them in one dungeon doesn't make it huge, it just means it saves resources so they don't have to make multiple dungeons.
Beats running naxx 25 once a week thats forsure.
Thanks for this great info!
I will give it a try...sounds like real Core-Gamer-Experience not like the Burger King-Raids in WoW - get in, get loot, get out.
The number of bosses depends on wether you count the sub-bosses. The sub-bosses seemed pretty tough to me
I have to say I am a very causual raider having raided less than a 1/2 dozen times, so I dont want to reflect badly on my guild which I think has got most of APW covered.
Here is a nice link to a list of the bosses:
http://www.tkagiro.com/wiki/index.php?title=Category:Ancient_Port_Warehouse
OK, this quote actually did start me laughing in my office. I true LOL I guess you could call it.
I am in a medium size, fairly average guild....although I like to think we've got some of the very best people on the server. Here is the timing of events with regard to APW for us.
When we found out APW was going to be released and heard how hard the content was on test, we formed an alliance with another guild and began preparing for APW by gearing up via diffferent armor and weapon quests and practicing operating as a 18-man force instead of a 6-man group.
APW was released in December of 2007. Shortly thereafter we took a full raid into the entrance wing and found we could not get by the very first trash mob. We went back to the drawing board and continued to gear up, particular with the Swamp Armor quests.
This is all before our raid tracker was created but I'd say we got our first x77 kill around March of 2008. Lotta wipes just trying to get to him. Within a few weeks we had General Vicus and Travix down. But it took us until about May of 2009 to get Zaraax down. So from release to conquering the Entrance Wing it took about 5 months of hard work.
We started right in with the Library Wing. At this time our raiding alliance was no more, both guilds had grown to a size to raid by themselves... so there was some readjusting and restarting. It took us a month to kill Athriss and Palpenipe consistently, even though we were still struggling with Zaraax. Then we moved onto the Cartheon Three (the Dreadlord, the Senator and the Admiral). The Admiral presented quite a challenge and he died for the first time in August of 2008. So the Library and Cartheon Wing took us about 4 months.
While we were working on the Cartheon Wing we started to push into the Marina. We took down Shylosia before we got Admiral and took down Vercel in August as well. Meanwhile, Zaraax, Admiral, Jagund, Prime Warden and Dresla (the latter 3 are overland mobs) continue to give us fits. Nerksawl fell sometime in the summer of 2008.
Shiver fell in September 2009 and we spent ALOT of time gearing up on the previous wings and with the Library constructs etc. because we couldn't even get to Exalted without wiping. Exalted died November 2008 and we immediately began working on cracking the Core. The Core is a wild and complex fight, we finally defeated it on January 3, 2009. During this time we had Entrance, Library, Vault and Cartheon on farm status. All in all, it took us about 4 full months to finish the Vault Wing.
Now, into the Basement Wing. By this time the guild has grown to the point where we can run simultaneous raids in different parts of the dungeon. Entrance for newer raiders, Vault and Basement for our progressive raiders. We are pretty darn good raiders at this point and one of a 20 or so guilds that have even gotten to the basement. The basement is just a nasty place to crawl, but we got to, and killed, Zaygius at the end of January 2009.
Right now we are working our strategy attempts on Kotasoth, the dungeon dragon and last mob in Ancient Port Warehouse. We've come close and could drop her any day now. So assuming she's dead before months end that will mean it took us 4 months to clear the Basement Wing and the Dragon's Lair.
So in the end, it will have taken us 1 year and 1 month (the wings mention overlap)to finish Ancient Port Warehouse. When we do, we will be one of only NINE guilds to accomplish this feat on our server. Maybe we are average, maybe a bit better than average as a raiding guild, but to say that the "most average guilds knock out the first 3 wings with in 2-3 weeks" is laughable.
APW by itself is a tremendous amount of raid content that most guilds will never be able to finish. Furthermore, by focusing on killing Kotasoth, we've fallen behind on the Overland Bosses. Still need to kill Dresla, never fought Fengrot, fought and died horribly to Guar once and I couldn't even tell you the names of the other bosses. IN ADDITION, we have not even stepped foot on the Bridge of Destiny or the Isle of Gazamut to tangle with all those raid mobs.
OK, this quote actually did start me laughing in my office. I true LOL I guess you could call it.
I am in a medium size, fairly average guild....although I like to think we've got some of the very best people on the server. Here is the timing of events with regard to APW for us.
When we found out APW was going to be released and heard how hard the content was on test, we formed an alliance with another guild and began preparing for APW by gearing up via diffferent armor and weapon quests and practicing operating as a 18-man force instead of a 6-man group.
APW was released in December of 2007. Shortly thereafter we took a full raid into the entrance wing and found we could not get by the very first trash mob. We went back to the drawing board and continued to gear up, particular with the Swamp Armor quests.
This is all before our raid tracker was created but I'd say we got our first x77 kill around March of 2008. Lotta wipes just trying to get to him. Within a few weeks we had General Vicus and Travix down. But it took us until about May of 2009 to get Zaraax down. So from release to conquering the Entrance Wing it took about 5 months of hard work.
We started right in with the Library Wing. At this time our raiding alliance was no more, both guilds had grown to a size to raid by themselves... so there was some readjusting and restarting. It took us a month to kill Athriss and Palpenipe consistently, even though we were still struggling with Zaraax. Then we moved onto the Cartheon Three (the Dreadlord, the Senator and the Admiral). The Admiral presented quite a challenge and he died for the first time in August of 2008. So the Library and Cartheon Wing took us about 4 months.
While we were working on the Cartheon Wing we started to push into the Marina. We took down Shylosia before we got Admiral and took down Vercel in August as well. Meanwhile, Zaraax, Admiral, Jagund, Prime Warden and Dresla (the latter 3 are overland mobs) continue to give us fits. Nerksawl fell sometime in the summer of 2008.
Shiver fell in September 2009 and we spent ALOT of time gearing up on the previous wings and with the Library constructs etc. because we couldn't even get to Exalted without wiping. Exalted died November 2008 and we immediately began working on cracking the Core. The Core is a wild and complex fight, we finally defeated it on January 3, 2009. During this time we had Entrance, Library, Vault and Cartheon on farm status. All in all, it took us about 4 full months to finish the Vault Wing.
Now, into the Basement Wing. By this time the guild has grown to the point where we can run simultaneous raids in different parts of the dungeon. Entrance for newer raiders, Vault and Basement for our progressive raiders. We are pretty darn good raiders at this point and one of a 20 or so guilds that have even gotten to the basement. The basement is just a nasty place to crawl, but we got to, and killed, Zaygius at the end of January 2009.
Right now we are working our strategy attempts on Kotasoth, the dungeon dragon and last mob in Ancient Port Warehouse. We've come close and could drop her any day now. So assuming she's dead before months end that will mean it took us 4 months to clear the Basement Wing and the Dragon's Lair.
So in the end, it will have taken us 1 year and 1 month (the wings mention overlap)to finish Ancient Port Warehouse. When we do, we will be one of only NINE guilds to accomplish this feat on our server. Maybe we are average, maybe a bit better than average as a raiding guild, but to say that the "most average guilds knock out the first 3 wings with in 2-3 weeks" is laughable.
APW by itself is a tremendous amount of raid content that most guilds will never be able to finish. Furthermore, by focusing on killing Kotasoth, we've fallen behind on the Overland Bosses. Still need to kill Dresla, never fought Fengrot, fought and died horribly to Guar once and I couldn't even tell you the names of the other bosses. IN ADDITION, we have not even stepped foot on the Bridge of Destiny or the Isle of Gazamut to tangle with all those raid mobs.
Well I guess you could say this quote made me LoL at the office as well. Your average raid guild couldn't kill a trash mob in entrance? *shrugs*. I highly doubt your average raid guild went through that. Your high end guilds dropped kotasoth in 2 months from launch. Your next tier guilds took 4-5 months. Your average guilds took 7-8 months. Check the progression lists.
Asides I don't know what guild you are in but when you mentioned you could run multiple raids in your guild at the same time, already told me what kind of guild it is.
Don't get me wrong APW is a good dungeon. Howevera year and a half later, its past its time.
Rift: Storm Legion Raid Progression Tracker
First you stated, and I quote, "most average guilds knock out the first 3 wings with in 2-3 weeks". THEN you stated the average guild took 7-9 months to drop Kotasoth. How can the "average guild" clear 3 wings in 2 to 3 weeks and then take 7-8 more months to finish the remaining 2 wings?
I used the information directly from the progression threads to state my argument. There are a grand total of 9 guilds that have killed Kotasoth and 3 of those are recent and 2 of those still can't do it on a regular basis. Compare that to the 26 guilds that are serious enough about completing APW to official post their progression and the dozens others that are just starting to work the Entrance now or have been for the past 6 months when the game populations really started to rise.
Furthermore, the guild that cleared APW from start to finish in 3 months was also the guild that tested the dungeon on Test. They are a very hard-core raid guild that had a head-start on strategy with their experience on test. There is no other guild in that category.
I'm not ashamed that the first couple times we walked into APW that we wiped to the first trash mob. Almost everyone else has too. Even the trash mobs have certain tricks up their sleeves. As far as running simultaneous raids, that a outcome of newer raider leveling up and wanting to raid. We can get 30+ people signed up for a raid, when that happens we split some off to work on entry content instead of just saying, 'sorry, no room'.
The point of this has been dispelling your "most average guilds knock out the first 3 wings with in 2-3 weeks". That is extremely mis-leading. For the VAST majority of guilds, APW has keep them busy since it was released over a year ago. If someone likes to raid, there is a massive amount of content in Vanguard. Especially with the addition of the Overland mobs, Bridge of Destiny and Isle of Gazamut. I think there is ONE guild through that.
The first wings can and have been accomplished in 2-3 weeks. Why it takes longer for the last 2 wings? Turnover rate. Larger difficulty in the mobs. Core Processor needing to be flagged by most people. The executiton needed for Kotasoth (of course him being changed of course). I can tell you when we killed kotasoth for the first time last january, I can tell you exactly why it took longer than the first 2-3 wings.
Oh and not to mention the farming necessary.
Rift: Storm Legion Raid Progression Tracker
I'm curious why it takes a guild so long to beat a few bosses in one wing. Is it due to the difficulty, "casual" raid schedule or did contested content play a role? 4-5 months seems like an extremely long time for so few encounters. Working on one dungeon for 17 months?
I've been in a lot of guilds in a lot of games over the last 10 years with more mediocre people than I care to remember, but can't think of any game being that much of a roadblock.
Please don't take this as a slight, because it is an honest question. I'm really interested to hear what the story is.
Its due to 3 things, 18 man encounters, lockout mechanic, and turnover rate.
1 - All guilds were built for 24 man encounters. So having 18 man encounters meaning rotating and having to gear more players. Of course this is the longest part.
2 - Lockout mechanic, 6 day lockout. Can only do mobs once a week.
3 - Turnover rate for VG is high for raiding guilds. People are changing guilds or quitting the game.
This is from my guild's experience and we have every killable mob in game down and on farm. Its very difficult to keep players motivating in game.
Rift: Storm Legion Raid Progression Tracker
The place is huge. There are 19 major bosses and 13 smaller bosses. If a guild isn't hard core and only goes to APW 2-3 times a week then yes, it is going to take quite awhile. And the fact that only 9 guilds on my server have done it is a testament to that fact. I've played a number of other MMOs, raiding is very well done in Vanguard and is very challenging. This aren't instances either, if you wipe and no one is left to ressurect then you are done for the night unless another guild happens to stumble over your corpses.
I can't imagine why it would take 17 months to clear one raid zone if you are going 2-3 times a week as casual and the guild was at least half decent. If one mistake ends the entire raid for the night then that explains more about the long drawn out times than anything else.
I just can't imagine one raid zone being enough content to say something like "more content than you can possibly handle unless you are hardcore" for 17+ months. Something doesn't add up.
This morning, we become just the 10th guild on our server to slay Kotasoth!! Kotasoth's head is now proudly mounted and on display in our guild hall.
Did the credits scroll across the screen after you killed him?
Seriously, congrats. Impressive looking dragon.