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The PvP system doesn't work...
Spaceweed10
Member Posts: 625
..in it's present incarnation.
My lvl 40 toon was passing through the Wild Lands today, when I was 'ganked' by a full group of lvl 25's. What recompense can I take against them? None.
Is this the way the syestem is going to stay, or is this joke going to be rectified? I've left this game once and recently come back to find a lot of improvements, but this has made me think again. PvP has gone full circle, from lowbies being 'ganked' unfairly by higher levels, to the complete opposite.
Which retard thought this was a better idea?
Edit: For those not able to read between the lines, or are not aware of the PvP system, this post relates to the current flagging/murder system, and how players that 'con' grey to higher level players cannot be attacked by said higher level player unless they turn red to them.
Comments
At last!
Llke it or not but I find it realistic that a few "peons" are able to kill a single well trained warrior.
I'm happy to see your "uber" levelyness does not everything and there's room for surprizes.
Guess you're most the D&D player and I'm more the RuneQuest one.
Yep the pvp system pretty much sucks. Plain and simple.
Why didn't you fight back? Once they attack they are fair game. Or you could bait them into attacking you and then have your group rush out to take them.
What you're referring to has always been in place when it comes to AoC, in that several lower level players have been able to work together to take down a higher level foe.
What I understood his post as was in taking issue with the current PvP murder mechanics; specifically its current implementation. What many groups and some specific guilds are doing lately, is abusing the PvP murder flag system.
Without going into specifics, the end result of this particular type of griefing (and only this situation) is defend yourself and be flagged as a murderer; or let yourself be killed by the players who are abusing the current system. Neither option is really acceptable really, and as terrible as a FFA system might be for some; it's leaps and bounds better than a system that currently does not work as intended or sets up arbitrary systems that the playerbase can abuse/be abused by.
I also preferred it when it was no-consequence FFA personally
Isn't tjhere a mechanisim that makes you able to fight back any character that attacked you without being tagged as a murder?
Isn't tjhere a mechanisim that makes you able to fight back any character that attacked you without being tagged as a murder?
There are 'holes' in the system that players can abuse to get around that. Like someone said.. if the group of players abuse the system (which is pretty common) the only option is to either get the murder count, or to let them kill you.
What you're referring to has always been in place when it comes to AoC, in that several lower level players have been able to work together to take down a higher level foe.
What I understood his post as was in taking issue with the current PvP murder mechanics; specifically its current implementation. What many groups and some specific guilds are doing lately, is abusing the PvP murder flag system.
Without going into specifics, the end result of this particular type of griefing (and only this situation) is defend yourself and be flagged as a murderer; or let yourself be killed by the players who are abusing the current system. Neither option is really acceptable really, and as terrible as a FFA system might be for some; it's leaps and bounds better than a system that currently does not work as intended or sets up arbitrary systems that the playerbase can abuse/be abused by.
That's exactly the point. Sometimes the lowbies turn red, sometimes they don't. By the time this process takes place, you're dead. Even if they do turn red, it doesn't last very long for retribution to take place.
In other words, they can gank with impunity. If I get ganked by a group of lowbies I can't do anything about it because of the current flag'murder system. Groups of lowbies are getting free PvP xp. It's broken, simple as that.
What you're referring to has always been in place when it comes to AoC, in that several lower level players have been able to work together to take down a higher level foe.
What I understood his post as was in taking issue with the current PvP murder mechanics; specifically its current implementation. What many groups and some specific guilds are doing lately, is abusing the PvP murder flag system.
Without going into specifics, the end result of this particular type of griefing (and only this situation) is defend yourself and be flagged as a murderer; or let yourself be killed by the players who are abusing the current system. Neither option is really acceptable really, and as terrible as a FFA system might be for some; it's leaps and bounds better than a system that currently does not work as intended or sets up arbitrary systems that the playerbase can abuse/be abused by.
That's exactly the point. Sometimes the lowbies turn red, sometimes they don't. By the time this process takes place, you're dead. Even if they do turn red, it doesn't last very long for retribution to take place.
In other words, they can gank with impunity. If I get ganked by a group of lowbies I can't do anything about it because of the current flag'murder system. Groups of lowbies are getting free PvP xp. It's broken, simple as that.
Now that's an issue.
What you're referring to has always been in place when it comes to AoC, in that several lower level players have been able to work together to take down a higher level foe.
What I understood his post as was in taking issue with the current PvP murder mechanics; specifically its current implementation. What many groups and some specific guilds are doing lately, is abusing the PvP murder flag system.
Without going into specifics, the end result of this particular type of griefing (and only this situation) is defend yourself and be flagged as a murderer; or let yourself be killed by the players who are abusing the current system. Neither option is really acceptable really, and as terrible as a FFA system might be for some; it's leaps and bounds better than a system that currently does not work as intended or sets up arbitrary systems that the playerbase can abuse/be abused by.
That's exactly the point. Sometimes the lowbies turn red, sometimes they don't. By the time this process takes place, you're dead. Even if they do turn red, it doesn't last very long for retribution to take place.
In other words, they can gank with impunity. If I get ganked by a group of lowbies I can't do anything about it because of the current flag'murder system. Groups of lowbies are getting free PvP xp. It's broken, simple as that.
Now that's an issue.
Man don't these guys ever learn? EQ2 had the same problems with its PvP flagging stuff and carnage flagging
This is a question I ask myself every time I login to Age of Conan. There are some design elements that are so unbeliavably dumb, that I would guess the person who came up with them have never played an MMO in his life.
Maybe Funcom has tons of trainees or other unexperienced employees or something. And the handful on people who do have experience, are sitting in endless meetings every day.
AoC has the worst pvp i have ever played in the game. Im playing on a pve server now and as a pve game is fun but if i wanted to get back into pvp i would never choose aoc ...there is little skill in the system and the murder system is a complete joke with people using exploits to get guards to kill you and gain pvp xp....
Failcom failed on pvp big time with this game.
It will never work
Worst PvP in any game? What PvP specific games have you played?
As for no skill involved in PvP combet in AoC, I suggest you have no idea what you are talking about, and had your ass handed to you on many occasions? A good player will beat an average player 9 times out of 10.
The murder system as it stands at the moment is broken as I originally pointed out. It needs re-working, but the PvP as a whole is far from a 'failure'.
Oh noz! I'm sorry, this is the way PvP should be, you should not be immune to lower level toons just because of your high level or gear, that's not PvP, that's simply lame.
This was always funcoms intention, that larger number of lower levels can take out a high level one. Unlike some other games, where it is simply pointless to even try, you simply cant do anything, but i guess some feel that being immune to attacks, and sweeping through lower levels ganking players is skill, or a challenge, and they are PvP gods because of it.
1 one 1, your going to win, one of 5, im sorry, its dirt nap time, unless you are simply better then they are.
I don't see an issue here.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Oh noz! I'm sorry, this is the way PvP should be, you should not be immune to lower level toons just because of your high level or gear, that's not PvP, that's simply lame.
This was always funcoms intention, that larger number of lower levels can take out a high level one. Unlike some other games, where it is simply pointless to even try, you simply cant do anything, but i guess some feel that being immune to attacks, and sweeping through lower levels ganking players is skill, or a challenge, and they are PvP gods because of it.
1 one 1, your going to win, one of 5, im sorry, its dirt nap time, unless you are simply better then they are.
I don't see an issue here.
I think he forgot to mention in his first post that the lowbies were unflagged for him when they attacked him.
You can lose murder points. MPs tipically only affect griefers and not the occasional situations where you have to attack first to defend yourself.
Oh noz! I'm sorry, this is the way PvP should be, you should not be immune to lower level toons just because of your high level or gear, that's not PvP, that's simply lame.
This was always funcoms intention, that larger number of lower levels can take out a high level one. Unlike some other games, where it is simply pointless to even try, you simply cant do anything, but i guess some feel that being immune to attacks, and sweeping through lower levels ganking players is skill, or a challenge, and they are PvP gods because of it.
1 one 1, your going to win, one of 5, im sorry, its dirt nap time, unless you are simply better then they are.
I don't see an issue here.
Your 'assessment' is wrong. Let me help you.
Murder points.
So? They attacked you first.
As the other guy said.
You can lose murder points. MPs typically only affect grievers and not the occasional situations where you have to attack first to defend yourself.
You have to really TRY to go murder, or have any downsides to the situation you encountered.
They also, attacked you first.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
i think you are missing the point. he does not want to become a murderer....so he would have to wait for the gang to attack first and turn red before he can retaliate....but the system is a little borked where they do not always turn red and he cannot defend himself without becomeing a murderer himself.....this is a broken gameplay mechanic. Nothing to do with being lvl 40 or pvp itself
I am not missing the point, he is over inflating the severity of the situation. Kill them.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
I am not missing the point, he is over inflating the severity of the situation. Kill them.
so he has to suffer cause the gameplay mechanic is broken? And this would then make him a murderer to be able to be attacked by any other person passing by? Sorry but your logic is flawed.
I am not missing the point, he is over inflating the severity of the situation. Kill them.
so he has to suffer cause the gameplay mechanic is broken? And this would then make him a murderer to be able to be attacked by any other person passing by? Sorry but your logic is flawed.
No, its not. What suffering? How is he going to instantly go murder from this? even if he did...20 minutes later...good to go. This mechanic (this one being SLIGHTLY different) has worked will for over 9 years in three other games.
Don't Roll PvP, is sounding more like the answer all the time.
Also:
Patch 1.04.4
PvP Teams should no longer receive murderpoints for killing a lower level player, if that player attacked the group first.
The game is currently at 1.04.7.
Nice edit on your OP, you said nothing originally about the murder system, only that your 40 got killed, and PvP happened.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
It sounds like the PVP system is broken ?
"after the time of dice came the day of mice "
To me, sounds more like many people don't know how the pvp system works in AoC.
I am not missing the point, he is over inflating the severity of the situation. Kill them.
so he has to suffer cause the gameplay mechanic is broken? And this would then make him a murderer to be able to be attacked by any other person passing by? Sorry but your logic is flawed.
No, its not. What suffering? How is he going to instantly go murder from this? even if he did...20 minutes later...good to go. This mechanic (this one being SLIGHTLY different) has worked will for over 9 years in three other games.
Don't Roll PvP, is sounding more like the answer all the time.
Also:
Patch 1.04.4
PvP Teams should no longer receive murderpoints for killing a lower level player, if that player attacked the group first.
The game is currently at 1.04.7.
Nice edit on your OP, you said nothing originally about the murder system, only that your 40 got killed, and PvP happened.
That's why I edited it.
Notice I put 'edit' above it?
{ Mod Edit }