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Captain's Councils/National Policy
olddaddy
Member Posts: 3,356
The one area of this game I don't see dicussed is the strategy area. Each nation should have some sort of leadership, either through Captain's Councils, or, really more preferrably, a National Council of Societie Leadership.
Though I know I will get digs for discussing France, I like France. Of the three nations, France perpetually has difficulties attracting new players (they definately cannot compete with the sign up rate the Brits and Rats enjoy). So, France must play smarter to compete.
If you look at the French position on the map, their major shipbuilding port (Cayo) is right near the major Spanish shipbuilding port (Havana). Since each can place both in a red circle, perhaps it's time for France and Spain to talk. As part of the talks, France should consider that they have a monopoly on common wine, a key ingrediant to ship's provisions, one which the Spanish would kill for....literally.
So, to protect Biloxi/Tampa also, maybe the French should consider agreeing to provide Spain with common wine. Let the negotiators earn their money, and haggle over the price and quantity. Now, if an agreement is reached, France and Spain are free of each other for a bit, and Spain gets it's wine. No wine, Biloxi falls, maybe even Tampa. Now Spain is free to follow those lovely currents and winds along the coast of Central and South America, and go mess with the Brits. France can go mess with the Rats. Win/win scenario. Happiness.
So, now that France has taken the incentive for Spain to immediately go after them away, they have to cut a deal with the Brits. The Brits are far away from Biloxi/Tampa, a long way to be bothered. But they would need common wine also, more so then they know, as France has just freed Spain up to go after them. So France cuts a similiar deal with French freetraders. Since we limited your profits with Spain, we want you to sail all the way down to the British corner with your holds bulging with common wine and sell for whatever the market will reasonably bear. Probably no more than a 25% markup, the Brits have alot of players, deeper pockets, go for it. Now Spain has a struggle. France enjoys more freedom.
If successful, France has just engineered a war of attrition between Spain and England, relieving the strain on the French economy, while at the same time profiteering off that war.
This is just an example of an aspect of the game that I see overlooked in most discussions, the possibilities of the mind games that can be played. It's not all about logging on, forming a posse, and mindless grinding a port into contention. It's not about PvP driving the economy. It's like a wargame, it's about thinking, and using the economy as a weapon to drive RvR.
Comments
This is the main aspect of the game that Potbs lacks due to the fact that some selfish immature players with giant egos only like to boast about themselves or their own uberness & make fun of other players or other nations. The forum is full of childish lolabrit posts etc.
This is a very important aspect of the game-play where better forum moderation would help a lot as they should have the power to promote a better community instead of encouraging the scalawags that try to bring it down.
There is much more that FLS should do to encourage a better community based on respect where players co-operate with each other both in game & out but it has sadly proved that some of this undesirable community element appears to be coming from FLS themselves.
There are some rare larger societies that do play the way you describe but as you point out the game has fragmented or been dragged down to the point that on some servers there are no longer the populations to do it & the majority of Potbs PvP players left only want Movs for themselves or do not want to co-operate across nations.
This is the main aspect of the game that Potbs lacks due to the fact that some selfish immature players with giant egos only like to boast about themselves or their own uberness & make fun of other players or other nations. The forum is full of childish lolabrit posts etc.
This is a very important aspect of the game-play where better forum moderation would help a lot as they should have the power to promote a better community instead of encouraging the scalawags that try to bring it down.
There is much more that FLS should do to encourage a better community based on respect where players co-operate with each other both in game & out but it has sadly proved that some of this undesirable community element appears to be coming from FLS themselves.
There are some rare larger societies that do play the way you describe but as you point out the game has fragmented or been dragged down to the point that on some servers there are no longer the populations to do it & the majority of Potbs PvP players left only want Movs for themselves or do not want to co-operate across nations.
Agreed.
On Rackham the Spanish just went after Biloxi. That is why I wrote this, had France not been asleep, Spain never would have had a political reason to go after Biloxi. They would be sailing for the British.
So, a new player asks on Nation chat what is the market for bandages, he's looking for a niche. I suggest ship's provisions, with an emphasis on wine. A French wine maker speaks up, as well as others, and we get to talking about Biloxi. I suggested they check the market and see if the Brits need common wine for provisioning, that way the Brits can build more ships, and hopefully take the Spanish off our backs in the Gulf of Mexico.
Then we talk about shaking some common wine loose every once in a while and selling it for about a 10% markup on the Havana market. Enough so the Spanish don't feel the need to go after Biloxi again (if we win). We make money, we conserve and build up our strength.
So, like, we're on nation chat talking about what we all produce, and who is driving which ships. It's a start to community.
It's the players that make the community, and thereby the game. You can have a marginal game, with a great community, and people will play because they're having fun.
Or you can have a great game, with a community of assholes, and people will walk away.
GB's animosity toward PotBS's forum admins aside (
lub u GB ), he's right in that there are A LOT of egotistical players in that game. One downfall of PotBS is that there's no game mechanic in place to facilitate or encourage groups of societies working together or making pacts with groups on the other side. I understand why there are no means of making deals with the enemy, but I think PotBS would benefit from some sort of formal alliance system. But since there isn't one, small socs don't want to merge and lose their "name" and larger socs all tend to think they should be "top dawg". Makes it tough to get folks to work together, but I'm sure you've seen plenty of examples of that by now.
Even so, there are "national councils" on some servers. Blackbeard Britain and Blackbeard Spain have an external forum and shared ventrilo - I'm not privy to what goes on on those forums (I'm an Antigua pirate and only a recent addition to Blackbeard Spain) but given that BritBeard's got map wins and BritSpain recently pulled it off I assume that they're organized and working together nicely. Whether France has their own out-of-game forum or not, I have no idea... but if they don't, one of the leaders of the prominent societies should consider getting a free one from guildlaunch or something and passing it out to the leaders of the other socs even if it feels like herding cats at times - somebody has to make the first move, and that person always gets flack... until it starts working.
On a semi-related note, I don't know if you're talking about BB or Rackham, BUT I can tell you that there's been an agreement made on Blackbeard where the primary Spanish RvR societies have agreed to let BB France rebuild, so the bulk of Spain won't be flipping any Frog ports or interfering with French trying to flip Brit ports (though I think once ports are fully flipped, normal red zone PvP isn't covered by this). You may get random Dons who don't listen and don't care trying to flip French ports, but it won't be the Dons' RvR Superstars. At least, not until some clash of egos happens between France and Spain (saw it happen on Antigua, human nature plus what GB said about egotistical jerks). Anyways, for however long it lasts, I hope it helps BB France get back on their feet.
And whichever France you're talking about (be it Blackbeard of Rackham) good luck with getting some real economy going for them. I know people on Blackbeard like Ulot Ooma who have no qualms about trading and facilitating trade across national lines - if you're on BB, consider getting in touch with him if you haven't already. His forum handle is Ulot and in-game I'm pretty sure he always has diplo.
What is needed is an actual Naval Ranking System (as opposed to the system that is in place now where all Level 50 NOs become Admirals).
A system that assigns command positions on the map and assigns Port Commodores, local Rear Admirals, Regional Admirals, Fleet Admirals and Grand Admirals.
A system that fits in with the existing game.
A system that allows players to command - but does not force unwilling players to follow.
A system that rewards those that do follow.
And a system which interacts with Port Governors (Should they ever get in game?)
Such a system IS possible. What's more - I believe it is possible now - and with minimium programming work.
http://www.burningsea.com/forums/showpost.php?p=161860&postcount=11
That system should work in parallel to the system of Port Governance.
At times the two systems would be working to a common goal - at times they would be at odds.
(Governors being self serving at times and the Navy taking orders from the King and Admiralty)
And along side that again could be Merchant Guilds - again pushing their own agenda.
Much of this could be done now - with less work than the AvCom upgrade took... BUT, FLS clearly have their own vision here and different priorities.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Of course Gyrus you are absolutely right but as long as FLS have a boarding party leader that thinks that kicking giant inflatable balls is more fun It's sadly not likely to happen.
If the game design responsibility was given to some of Sega's Empire Total War devs it would be a different story.
Nice link but I am not convinced that anything can make POTBS RvR/PvP work to a reasoanble level. Quite simply I think this is the question of initial poor design and lack of balance.
I would love to be proven wrong and that breings me to the next point. Namely I cannot fathom FLS bright bulbs implementing such a deep change.
Nice discussion point though.
Where, in the post above or in the post on the FLS boards, do I say this will in any way help to make RvR or PvP work?
In the post on the FLS boards I said "It will help get all players established in the RvR game."
But, I went on to say "This system simply deals with a Naval Ranking System – it does NOT address any other issue such as population or population imbalance."
Dealing with the problems of PvP and RvR are much deeper than what I am suggesting here. This could be a very small part of the solution? But, only a very very small part.
And it's not even a very 'deep change'. It is very superficial - but does allow for more detailed building on it later as part of other systems.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
I don't know if anyone answered this, but the French on Blackbeard do have their own forums used for map strategy and such. It has been and still a useful tool for us.
LULZ
Mackenna!
Yup Ulot always has diplo, but he's currently serving a ban on the POTBS forums, whoops!
As to the thread, the evil in me thought "Or the Spanish could always take Biloxi" I had my experience with treaties this past map. They are impossible to manage on a nationwide level, so now I just no longer care. Your best bet at influencing such an agreement, get in touch with the major econ ****** of those Spanish, set something up. That way, they will make sure that when a port attack is called, they will reject those calls for attack, since the risks outweigh the benefits. Sure, with Biloxi under Spanish hands he could have acess to near tax free wine, but good luck finding someone to setup shop out there for him.