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Should MMO's that shutdown give refunds?
MidniteHowl
Member UncommonPosts: 149
The MMO's I'm speaking of for refunds upon a complete and permanent shutdown are the ones that are store bought where you actually paid $30 - $50 for the game discs. I've been thinking about this ever since the announcement of the shutdown of Tabula Rasa. I mean if you look at any other entertainment products such as music, movies, or other video games besides MMO's, once purchased they are yours to use as much as you want for life. So my question is why do we have to pay an initial price for most of the top MMO's out there just to have them closed down at some point (which, by the way, even WoW will someday close)? What good would the game discs do us that we purchased?
I'm sure all these MMO developers and publishers cover their butts from this kind of thing in the user agreements that we all check "I Agree" to, but it just doesn't seem fair to charge any fee in the stores since we have to pay a subscription on top of it. Now I don't want to hear about the free-to-play games. I've tried many of them. Some are o.k., some are crap, but they do not compare in quality, in my opinion, to the standard subscription-based games. So I think these mainstream MMO's should just start handing out their games for free via downloads from their sites then have a mandatory subscription to play it. That way if they shut down, all I lost is the money I payed to play the game....I basically was renting, and I wouldn't have a $50 games disc as a coaster for my drinks! I also think that if developers knew they had to put their game out for free initially and had to rely on subscriptions for their income to pay the bills, they would probably be putting out much higher quality games than the ones of recent that rush to get it out the door and patch it later.
Comments
I think a lot depends on the circumstances. If you buy a game, play it for a year, quit, and then it shuts down five years later, I don't think you're owed any sort of compensation by the company. If you pay $50 to buy a box and it shuts down a week later without warning, then yeah, they owe you a refund. One could ask where the line should be drawn. Perhaps one way to guarantee that players at least get something for buying the box is to go the Tabula Rasa approach and give players an amount of time that they can play for free that at the monthly fee price would have been at least what they paid for the box.
MMOs (usually) shut down because they run out of money. It doesn't make much sense to refund anything other than what's already been paid for, such as 6-month subs when the game will only be online for another two - the money would have to come from somewhere that simply doesn't exist.
I think rather than a refund, the server software should be released to the people who bought the game, so they can run their own.
The EULA that you agree to in each MMO states that they have the right to shut down the service. It often also states what kind of timeframe or notice they will give.
You paid for the material and license to use the client software for a service. You own the CD, not the game. This is true of every game you purchase. You do know this, right?
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big fat YES
MCO, AA and EnB did that as well.
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If they let you return the game if you disagree with the license agreement, then yes that argument is valid. However, you cant read the license agreement without opening the game, so therefore they can piss on the LA.
If they let you return the game if you disagree with the license agreement, then yes that argument is valid. However, you cant read the license agreement without opening the game, so therefore they can piss on the LA.
Name one publisher ( NOT reseller) that will not do that.
Just one.
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Yes, I know that, but I also know that if you look at that from a console or non-mmo point-of-view, owning the cd means I can play the game for as long as I wish. If I own say Oblivion on my Xbox 360, I can play it as often and as long as I wish, and being that the game is "owned" by Bethesda they still can't come in my home and take it away. So, in a sense, I do own the games I purchase. See purchased = owned. That's how it works. If you buy a car, do you own the car, or does the manufacturer?
I also mentioned that I was aware that the devs are probably covered in the EULA ( I just didn't call it EULA), so I'm aware of that, but still doesn't seem right in comparison to anything else we purchase and can keep for life. Why do you think record producers and movie producers can't stop the copying of their material? It is our right to have back-up copies to ensure we can keep these things for life. I know people abuse that and sell copies for money, but that's a whole other topic there.
Yes, I know that, but I also know that if you look at that from a console or non-mmo point-of-view, owning the cd means I can play the game for as long as I wish. If I own say Oblivion on my Xbox 360, I can play it as often and as long as I wish, and being that the game is "owned" by Bethesda they still can't come in my home and take it away. So, in a sense, I do own the games I purchase. See purchased = owned. That's how it works. If you buy a car, do you own the car, or does the manufacturer?
I also mentioned that I was aware that the devs are probably covered in the EULA ( I just didn't call it EULA), so I'm aware of that, but still doesn't seem right in comparison to anything else we purchase and can keep for life. Why do you think record producers and movie producers can't stop the copying of their material? It is our right to have back-up copies to ensure we can keep these things for life. I know people abuse that and sell copies for money, but that's a whole other topic there.
Owning a car or a single-player game is completely different from and mmorpg/online game.
Now, if a game release dn then shuts down about a month later - maybe then get some kinda refund - but other than that I don't see too many company giving money back.
I see some have said that most of these games give you free time near the end that would usually add up to be what the box price is. I feel that is a pretty good solution, and I didn't realize that they were doing this. I have not played a MMO till it's end, but this was a thought of mine being that there are many mmo's that have been shut down and considering I'm currently playing Vanguard which is good but can't seem to get the subscription numbers up. So as long as they are giving players the free time at the end, I guess the only thing I would be able to complain about is the disc I have to throw away, but the free time is the same as a refund to me. Now, I guess I have to go play a MMO to play till they shut it down LOL....
I think I understand the point being made. With any other non-MMO or internet based game, once its purchased it is yours to enjoy as long as you like. If I buy Madden 2009 for my PC or console, I play as much as I like. Even if EA closes shop, I can still pop in the CD and play. The game may not be supported further with updates or the like, but I can still play. A MMO on the other hand, once the company shuts it down, it is useless. I think the original point being made is not that a refund should be made available. I think the point made is that MMO's should be free to download and pay to play that way you're not out your money for the game purchase if the game company shuts down. To some degree I agree with that. However, game developers spend years developing and maintaing games of this size and they should get something for it. Besides, not everyone wants to sit and download a 3 GB file to play. A hard copy would be nice. Perhaps, lowering the initial purchase price to 15 dollars or so for a MMO, to cover costs of manufacturing and such. my two cents
Now lets look at this from another perspective. First off let say a game cost 50 dollars and offer a 15 dollars a month for subscription. Since buying the box guarantee give you a month subscription, that lowered the price of the game down to 35 dollar just so you can play them. As with any product and services out there, people who get product as it just came out will most definately have to pay the early adopter fee. Those product ranging anywhere from computer, car, to just about anything. As time went on, the item itself will depreciate in value till it is either become totally worthless or years later and become a collector item. You pay the big buck so you can have the hottest shinest thing in town before anyone. Now that shiney could be either diamond in the rough or a polish ball of turd it doesn't matter. It wil eventually depreciate in value later on. If you don't want to throw down the big buck to test drive the brand new KOTOR or what ever it is you are looking forward in the horrizon. There are plenty of other older more tested game you can dig your claw into that is not only a safer bet that it will stick around for some time to come but also cost you nothing more than a subscription and maybe an extra 5 or 10 dollars.
Depends, but some kind of partial refund in the form of free time or something, absolutely.
The "box" fee is there for people to make money. Now we have more digital downloading, so a disk is becoming obsolete. It is just a marketing strategy no different from pricing something at $99 instead of $100. Some game companies do allow things like "trial" upgrades and free downloads but not many. Once a game is canceled, I doubt they have the money to issue refunds to everyone who bought the box to support their game in the first place. Just make sure you don't keep paying for an MMO after you find out it will be canceled.
I think MMORPGs should all offer a free trial considering you may not like it or you might not like the community etc.
Well if the MMO was planning on being shut down yet boxes are still being sold in stores you should be able to get a refund for the box.; as well as if you pay the full sub fee but the game closes three days later. Besides that I don't really see a good reason for a refund. It's almost a standard that they announce at least 3 months ahead of time when they are shutting the game down.
Although there are cases where the company tries to hide the fact that they are going out of business to milk the subs for as much as possible but in those cases the best you can hope for is that the bank might help you out.
And its always a risk buying a lifetime membership, you shouldn't get refunded if the game closes down in six months or so since it's only based on the services lifetime.
Make games you want to play.
http://www.youtube.com/user/RavikAztar
You still have the rigth to use the client side software you have brought. You however pay for the server (and it ssoftware) though a montly payment (for TR atleast) and you agreed to the EULA when signing up for that. Now it is true that the client side software is clearly not usable anymore, but it is still working.
also
"By way of compensation to Tabula Rasa fans, the company has gifted all active users with three free months of City of Heroes and Lineage II, Aion beta access and one free month of Aion when it comes out. "
Now true it might have been better to give them a free game of choice from the current selection. This compensation is still "worth" more then the 50 euro's you payed and seems to be a pretty royal compensation as a lot of companies would have not done that.
Although i tend to agree i think in this instance it is wrong to look at a MMOG as a product you are suppose to use for a lifetime.
There are plenty of products on the market that has a life expectancy. Cologne, consumable goods, toilet paper the list is nearly endless.
There are enough issues to grab on to besides this one. What about buying a product that is never really yours. You can get banned leaving your CD's useless because the game companies has the sole right over your game account and your only access to the game. You are buying a product and paying full price for it when in reality you are just renting it. those are certainly interesting issues i believe should be dealt with with some clear laws that doesn't exist at the moment. Technology advances faster than lawmakers can keep up with. I am all for protecting intellectual rights but consumers should have rights too.
I think the only way to deal with those issues is either avoid playing MMOs or accept that you will never really own what you bought. As a consumer you can avoid paying for something if you feel you don't have any rights. The problem is once you have bitten by tyhe MMOG bug then single player games just doesn't cut it anymore. So we give up some rights just to have some fun
Could anybody explain this sentence for me? Either I'm dumb which could certainly be the case or this make 0 sense.
How is something working that you can no longer use?. How do you define working here. That you can install files on your computer and click an .exe file that leads to nowhere?. I'm pretty sure everything the CD's contain in terms of a MMORPG is no longer accesible. Sure WoW has private servers which is highly illegal btw since it's a clear copy right infrigment so let's not go into an illegal aspect of this argument. Feel free to explain this to me like I'm a 5 year old
50 bucks to the right to install the game and 15 a month for the right to play? I don't buy into the whole CDs vs the right to use a server. The game is the server..no server no game.
That's like selling you a car and then take away the engine..oh but you still have a "car". please
To make it even funnier. There are shops that still sell some boxed MMOs that got canceled (or got free client - free to play)
Wonder what happens if you buy boxed Ryzom , or Anarchy Online...
Or even let sat Tabula Rasa ?
If you really wanted to play it. Wouldnt there be private servers up for it. They can't do anything legally unless they made money off of it right? I wonder if there are any private servers for these games.
Edit: I guess not all games are easily to make a private server. Anyway, I check earth and beyond because it was a game I always wanted to try out. They been working on one off and on for few years. =/ I guess they should release the source code for servers for private games. I mean you should be able to play the game itself by yourself.
I wonder if a lawyer could comment on what legal way you can go to make the companys to release server code or make it stand alone.
I never bought a game that closed down yet. So I never really got pissed at a company for closing it doors.
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"Any free people have the right to choose how it wants to be govern thats the essence of democracy. It's sad when America has chosen for the stability and consistency of a dictatorship and doing it democratically" -utnow
Releasing the source code would be a bad idea specially for a gaming company who built the engine from the ground up. Such an engine is still worth a lot of money and can be sold.
Releasing the source code would be a bad idea specially for a gaming company who built the engine from the ground up. Such an engine is still worth a lot of money and can be sold.
The server code though.
--
"Any free people have the right to choose how it wants to be govern thats the essence of democracy. It's sad when America has chosen for the stability and consistency of a dictatorship and doing it democratically" -utnow
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?