Originally posted by GiveMePvP If the numbers are GOOD, they will release the numbers because it helps the stock price, investors are happy and everyone is happy. If the numbers are BAD, they won't release the numbers because.. well, it has the opposite effect.
You would not reveal even good numbers if you think it might go down in the near future. If you start releasing numbers people expect you to continue, and once you stop they will assume that the numbers are bad.
Thus you only release numbers at the very start to keep the pre-launch hype on the marketing and sales channels going for as long as you can. You stop releasing numbers - no, not when the subscription numbers go down - when the acquisition numbers show that the hype effect is now over, which will happen before the numbers drop. Your focus after that is 90% retention and 10% acquisition, thus marketing by numbers is pretty much useless.
The smart way of doing numbers after that is the way I suspect they did with WAR; state positive single day or single week numbers, ignoring that they do not represent the trend.
- "We had way more players online today than the same day last week", while the same day last week was the evening of the Superbowl and thus really low.
- "I checked the subscriber numbers just now, and they're most definitely up from yesterday", when yesterday was a day after a billing cycle meaning yesterday they dropped a lot and today those who forgot to renew have come back.
Majority of companies will not release any kind of numbers, not subscribers, not profits, not losses. They don't want people to incorrectly interpret such numbers and leave the game because of it.
As much as I dislike AoC, not releasing sub numbers means absolutly nothing at all.
I don't get it. After launch Funcom was yelling their subscription numbers in every interview. Then they suddenly went silent. That was of course because they lost about 90% of players and they tired to hide that fact but now we all know it happened so why the need to hide it? We all know about the mass exodus and the fact that AoC's lowpoint before Christmas was about 50k subscriptions. Most people estimate AoC has about 100k subscriptions and it's was kind of confirmed be Craig in an interview (he said it by mistake). Why can't Funcom be honest and release the numbers? Then we could all see if AoC is really growing. Or maybe it is not growing? My explanation is that the "growth" is generated by the trial people, most of whom won't subscribe after trial. That is the only reasonable explanation. If AoC was growing, why not show proof and get even more players to resubscribe?
I sm not really sure why the majority of MMO companies withhold subscription numbers. WoW for example reports a subscription number but it appears to be a total number of subscirbers WoW has had since release not the current active subscribers.
I assume that the real number of MMO subscribers is some type of trade secret or something.
Thank you for this business lesson Mr. Forum Expert. If only they had taught me these real life wisdoms when I was doing my MBA. There is a problem with your theory though. Funcom was never the "top dog" yet they DID release their subscription numbers. Weird huh? Maybe it is time for you to wake up and see that your favorite game is not doing that well? Yes, I know it hurts..
Wait. You have an MBA and this is still hard for you to grasp?
This has nothing to do with anyone's personal affinity or hatred for a game, rather a simple matter of basic understanding of marketing.
In what industries do anyone but the top companies advertise their numbers?
Why give ammo to the competition to fire back at you?
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
I don't get it. After launch Funcom was yelling their subscription numbers in every interview. Then they suddenly went silent. That was of course because they lost about 90% of players and they tired to hide that fact but now we all know it happened so why the need to hide it? We all know about the mass exodus and the fact that AoC's lowpoint before Christmas was about 50k subscriptions. Most people estimate AoC has about 100k subscriptions and it's was kind of confirmed be Craig in an interview (he said it by mistake). Why can't Funcom be honest and release the numbers? Then we could all see if AoC is really growing. Or maybe it is not growing? My explanation is that the "growth" is generated by the trial people, most of whom won't subscribe after trial. That is the only reasonable explanation. If AoC was growing, why not show proof and get even more players to resubscribe?
I sm not really sure why the majority of MMO companies withhold subscription numbers. WoW for example reports a subscription number but it appears to be a total number of subscirbers WoW has had since release not the current active subscribers.
I assume that the real number of MMO subscribers is some type of trade secret or something.
It's no trade secret. It's quite simple really.
If an MMO has a lot of subscriptions and is growing, it's in company's best interest to let to public know. If on the other hand subscriptions are staying where they are or going down, it might be better to keep quit because all negative news makes the stock go down and even more players might quit.
My theory is that trials didn't generate as much new subscriptions as Funcom hoped. Negative word-of-mouth has made thousands of players not to buy AoC. On this forum you can read a lot of positive things about AoC but most gamers know ex-AoC players in REAL LIFE and those players usually say AoC sucks.
Funcom is just keeping quit to avoid further failure.
If an MMO has a lot of subscriptions and is growing, it's in company's best interest to let to public know. If on the other hand subscriptions are staying where they are or going down, it might be better to keep quit because all negative news makes the stock go down and even more players might quit.
My theory is that trials didn't generate as much new subscriptions as Funcom hoped. Negative word-of-mouth has made thousands of players not to buy AoC. On this forum you can read a lot of positive things about AoC but most gamers know ex-AoC players in REAL LIFE and those players usually say AoC sucks.
Funcom is just keeping quit to avoid further failure.
Not all of these companies are ever publicly traded companies so I don't believe it has anything to do with stock. I think most companies prefer to keep all their business information to themselves, and really as players we shouldn't care. Try an MMO if you feel there are not enough players in the world, try a different one. But saying there's 150,000 or 300,000 players won't really affect your in-game experience
Thank you for this business lesson Mr. Forum Expert. If only they had taught me these real life wisdoms when I was doing my MBA. There is a problem with your theory though. Funcom was never the "top dog" yet they DID release their subscription numbers. Weird huh? Maybe it is time for you to wake up and see that your favorite game is not doing that well? Yes, I know it hurts..
You’re very welcome, Captain intentionally-manipulating-words, or Madam argumentative-even-though-she-knows-she’s-been-proven-wrong-at-least-5-times.
I think you have a completely diluted and warped sense of reality if you think any company would go father then “we’re disappointed w/ “X”…” when relating to how their business model is doing. Which Craig and many other FC people have admitted. While they haven’t coddled to the frothing, rabid animals that demand death to their families, they have stated on several occasions (through “PR crap”) that they are disappointed with the launch. And well it should be. They eff’d shit up at launch. Lied, released broken, had gapping, glaring holes in content, and basically sold the shell of a game. As far as when they did talk about numbers, that was when? At launch, when they were initially rocking the market?
What you’re missing here… and please, take it one word at a time. Sound it out, and read it fully before you start to respond… they don’t have to release a damn thing b/c you “want” them to. They don’t need your, mine, or any other Joe-diddly-do-dad’s approval or justification. You, as an individual, are not important to Funcom, as a corporation. Whining, bitching, throwing the preverbal forum tantrum means jack shit to them. They’ve been blitzing the media lately, b/c the game has evolved to a place where a lot of the people that left (and aren’t jaded, or unwilling to give another look) can come back and potentially be interested by a very fleshed out, polished and fun game. The last of that is my personal opinion, and likely that of FC. But, that’s their thinking behind the trials, and the soon-to-come vet return offer.
If it’s 1 million, 1 hundred thousand, or 1 damn person, it makes little difference. They don’t have to inform you of it. So, demanding information, and calling them out for not running their company the way you want, makes you look about inept as a Judge Judy defendant. It’s ok though. Anyone with an iota of common sense sees right through your agenda mongering garbage, so carry on.
Not all of these companies are ever publicly traded companies so I don't believe it has anything to do with stock. I think most companies prefer to keep all their business information to themselves, and really as players we shouldn't care. Try an MMO if you feel there are not enough players in the world, try a different one. But saying there's 150,000 or 300,000 players won't really affect your in-game experience
This is true but subscription numbers might affect the future of AoC. Funcom still has A LOT of debt and it needs to be paid off somehow. If subscriptions drop way below 100k, Funcom is in DEEP trouble. They are going to have to fire even more people and this will make patches and expansions even less frequent.
It would really suck to current players who spent all that time leveling up characters only to hear that Funcom is going to shut down servers next month. I don't think it will happen next month but who knows, it COULD happen in the near future.
I see no harm in talking about subscription numbers since they are a very important aspect of MMO's.
I'm not sure why people say 'most' companies don't release their numbers
WOW does very frequently
EVE does all the time
Warhammer did recently (325k as of Dec 31st).
Being a publicly traded company has nothing to do with it. Warhammer and WOW are both owned by publicly traded companies, and both released numbers.
And if people think 'who cares how many people play it' then take a look at how long patches are on the test server because there is no inhouse QA, think about all the broken stuff that comes with every patch, and how long it takes to get fixed. And most importantly, look at how little content is in our patches, and how far they are apart.
AOC is on a downward spiral and soon to be free2play like AO... They are focusing their efforts on The Secret World.
I'm not sure why people say 'most' companies don't release their numbers WOW does very frequently
EVE does all the time
Warhammer did recently (325k as of Dec 31st). Being a publicly traded company has nothing to do with it. Warhammer and WOW are both owned by publicly traded companies, and both released numbers.
How many MMO's are out there? WoW and EVE makes only 2 MMO's out of how many? Enough said.
WAR's sub numbers as of Dec. 31th are not known as EA still hasn't released their Q4 2008 report and even posponed it again to May 12th.
The only real numbers were announced in the Q3 2008 report last year that their numbers were down at 350k in Early october from 700k registered in September (wich is still suggestive about if it's number registered or paying subscribers or combination of both (I believe the last)).
After that announcement Mark Jacobs has gone dead silent about subscription numbers.
So that leaves us with WoW and EVE Online.
And about publicly traded or not. SOE and NcSoft don't release subscription numbers of any of their games either and have never done so. Only the total amount of cash flow.
And those are the two largest P2P MMO development and publisher companies on the Western Market.
I'm not sure why people say 'most' companies don't release their numbers WOW does very frequently
EVE does all the time
Warhammer did recently (325k as of Dec 31st). Being a publicly traded company has nothing to do with it. Warhammer and WOW are both owned by publicly traded companies, and both released numbers. And if people think 'who cares how many people play it' then take a look at how long patches are on the test server because there is no inhouse QA, think about all the broken stuff that comes with every patch, and how long it takes to get fixed. And most importantly, look at how little content is in our patches, and how far they are apart. AOC is on a downward spiral and soon to be free2play like AO... They are focusing their efforts on The Secret World.
I'm not sure why people say 'most' companies don't release their numbers WOW does very frequently
EVE does all the time
Warhammer did recently (325k as of Dec 31st). Being a publicly traded company has nothing to do with it. Warhammer and WOW are both owned by publicly traded companies, and both released numbers.
How many MMO's are out there? WoW and EVE makes only 2 MMO's out of how many? Enough said.
WAR's sub numbers as of Dec. 31th are not known as EA still hasn't released their Q4 2008 report and even posponed it again to May 12th.
The only real numbers were announced in the Q3 2008 report last year that their numbers were down at 350k in Early october from 700k registered in September (wich is still suggestive about if it's number registered or paying subscribers or combination of both (I believe the last)).
After that announcement Mark Jacobs has gone dead silent about subscription numbers.
So that leaves us with WoW and EVE Online.
And about publicly traded or not. SOE and NcSoft don't release subscription numbers of any of their games either and have never done so. Only the total amount of cash flow.
And those are the two largest P2P MMO development and publisher companies on the Western Market.
Cheers
well said Guillermo197
Originally posted by BishopB:
Are a lot of the trolls just angry kids with old gaming hardware?
Not all of these companies are ever publicly traded companies so I don't believe it has anything to do with stock. I think most companies prefer to keep all their business information to themselves, and really as players we shouldn't care. Try an MMO if you feel there are not enough players in the world, try a different one. But saying there's 150,000 or 300,000 players won't really affect your in-game experience
This is true but subscription numbers might affect the future of AoC. Funcom still has A LOT of debt and it needs to be paid off somehow. If subscriptions drop way below 100k, Funcom is in DEEP trouble. They are going to have to fire even more people and this will make patches and expansions even less frequent.
It would really suck to current players who spent all that time leveling up characters only to hear that Funcom is going to shut down servers next month. I don't think it will happen next month but who knows, it COULD happen in the near future.
I see no harm in talking about subscription numbers since they are a very important aspect of MMO's.
oh, man,. you just keep lying.
Funcom has more cash than debt. Please check your facts. Go read fincancial statemems at www.ose.no
Originally posted by BishopB:
Are a lot of the trolls just angry kids with old gaming hardware?
I'm not sure why people say 'most' companies don't release their numbers WOW does very frequently
EVE does all the time
Warhammer did recently (325k as of Dec 31st). Being a publicly traded company has nothing to do with it. Warhammer and WOW are both owned by publicly traded companies, and both released numbers. And if people think 'who cares how many people play it' then take a look at how long patches are on the test server because there is no inhouse QA, think about all the broken stuff that comes with every patch, and how long it takes to get fixed. And most importantly, look at how little content is in our patches, and how far they are apart. AOC is on a downward spiral and soon to be free2play like AO... They are focusing their efforts on The Secret World.
Age of Conan launch fails -> players quit -> AoC goes F2P
Secret World launch fails? ...
You think Secret World will bomb? I mean after Anarchy Online and Age of Conan BOTH failed miserably at launch, who in their right mind will preorder The Secret World? Not me for one.
I'm not sure why people say 'most' companies don't release their numbers WOW does very frequently
EVE does all the time
Warhammer did recently (325k as of Dec 31st). Being a publicly traded company has nothing to do with it. Warhammer and WOW are both owned by publicly traded companies, and both released numbers.
How many MMO's are out there? WoW and EVE makes only 2 MMO's out of how many? Enough said.
WAR's sub numbers as of Dec. 31th are not known as EA still hasn't released their Q4 2008 report and even posponed it again to May 12th.
The only real numbers were announced in the Q3 2008 report last year that their numbers were down at 350k in Early october from 700k registered in September (wich is still suggestive about if it's number registered or paying subscribers or combination of both (I believe the last)).
After that announcement Mark Jacobs has gone dead silent about subscription numbers.
So that leaves us with WoW and EVE Online.
And about publicly traded or not. SOE and NcSoft don't release subscription numbers of any of their games either and have never done so. Only the total amount of cash flow.
And those are the two largest P2P MMO development and publisher companies on the Western Market.
Cheers
My bad (kinda). EA uses a weird calendar year. Their 4th quarter is actually the (jan-mar) quarter. Their 3rd quarter ends on Dec 31st (which most companies call the 4th quarter).
In any event, on February 3rd.. EA announced their '3rd quarter' report which covered up until dec 31st, and in that report they announced Warhammer had 350k subscribers as of Dec 31st.
Just in the name of clarity, AO does have a free account program, but it only gives access to the basic, original launch game plus the first booseter pack (notum wars), but if you wanna play the expansions you have to both buy them and pay 15$ a month or a lower fee if you just want to use a number of the expansions (5$ a month each of the 3).
The free accounts program works also as a trial, most of the people i knew in the game started as "froobs" and later upgraded their acocunts tot he 15/month subscription, me included.
The problem is that too many ppl expect new mmorpg to reach 1 millions subscriber.Because of WoW.Well WoW it's was a PHENOMENON.
and it's false.A lot of ppl are resubbing.Myself i did and i keep seing newcomer.Not on trial but true newbies.The game getting better and better.Most MMORPG did not reach peak after 2-3 years.
The problem is that too many ppl expect new mmorpg to reach 1 millions subscriber.Because of WoW.Well WoW it's was a PHENOMENON.
You make it sound like it's somehow IMPOSSIBLE to get 1 million subscribers right from the start. It's not impossible. Age of Conan had something like 800k just after launch but the problem was that the game SECKED and everyone quit. Had it been good, AoC would have easily reached the 1 million subscriber mark.
Sure WoW is the big dog but there are also a lot of players looking for that alternative to WoW. According to all the hype AoC was supposed to be that alternative but now we know the different. Age of Conan has so many fundamental problems that it will never again reach those big numbers it had at launch.
My theory is that most current of the AoC players are not having that much fun with the game. They are just so desperate in finding that WoW alternative that anything goes really.
Probally because they dont have 7 million gold farmers playing like that game that does release subscrition numbers. Really who cares how many people play. 95 % of the people I run into in mmos I never want to run into again anyways.
Not all of these companies are ever publicly traded companies so I don't believe it has anything to do with stock. I think most companies prefer to keep all their business information to themselves, and really as players we shouldn't care. Try an MMO if you feel there are not enough players in the world, try a different one. But saying there's 150,000 or 300,000 players won't really affect your in-game experience
This is true but subscription numbers might affect the future of AoC. Funcom still has A LOT of debt and it needs to be paid off somehow. If subscriptions drop way below 100k, Funcom is in DEEP trouble. They are going to have to fire even more people and this will make patches and expansions even less frequent.
It would really suck to current players who spent all that time leveling up characters only to hear that Funcom is going to shut down servers next month. I don't think it will happen next month but who knows, it COULD happen in the near future.
I see no harm in talking about subscription numbers since they are a very important aspect of MMO's.
oh, man,. you just keep lying.
Funcom has more cash than debt. Please check your facts. Go read fincancial statemems at www.ose.no
The trolls and haters don't use facts and thus they ignore posts like yours like the plague.
Not all of these companies are ever publicly traded companies so I don't believe it has anything to do with stock. I think most companies prefer to keep all their business information to themselves, and really as players we shouldn't care. Try an MMO if you feel there are not enough players in the world, try a different one. But saying there's 150,000 or 300,000 players won't really affect your in-game experience
This is true but subscription numbers might affect the future of AoC. Funcom still has A LOT of debt and it needs to be paid off somehow. If subscriptions drop way below 100k, Funcom is in DEEP trouble. They are going to have to fire even more people and this will make patches and expansions even less frequent.
It would really suck to current players who spent all that time leveling up characters only to hear that Funcom is going to shut down servers next month. I don't think it will happen next month but who knows, it COULD happen in the near future.
I see no harm in talking about subscription numbers since they are a very important aspect of MMO's.
oh, man,. you just keep lying.
Funcom has more cash than debt. Please check your facts. Go read fincancial statemems at www.ose.no
The trolls and haters don't use facts and thus they ignore posts like yours like the plague.
And that is also a fact.
Or maybe pages written in Norwegian don't really help so much on forums with an English speaking majority? I'm betting that is a fact.
Most MMOs don't release sub numbers. Only a few I've played give you a total number of players that are logged on and most use the same vague general descriptions like "medium". Did Funcom ever fix all the servers saying medium, or do they still lie about even the server load?
I'm no Funcom fan, but I can't kill them for hiding sub numbers, unless WAR releases their Q1 sub numbers. I know EA/Mythic released their somewhat unflattering '08 Q4 numbers, which is more than Funcom did.
Not all of these companies are ever publicly traded companies so I don't believe it has anything to do with stock. I think most companies prefer to keep all their business information to themselves, and really as players we shouldn't care. Try an MMO if you feel there are not enough players in the world, try a different one. But saying there's 150,000 or 300,000 players won't really affect your in-game experience
This is true but subscription numbers might affect the future of AoC. Funcom still has A LOT of debt and it needs to be paid off somehow. If subscriptions drop way below 100k, Funcom is in DEEP trouble. They are going to have to fire even more people and this will make patches and expansions even less frequent.
It would really suck to current players who spent all that time leveling up characters only to hear that Funcom is going to shut down servers next month. I don't think it will happen next month but who knows, it COULD happen in the near future.
I see no harm in talking about subscription numbers since they are a very important aspect of MMO's.
oh, man,. you just keep lying.
Funcom has more cash than debt. Please check your facts. Go read fincancial statemems at www.ose.no
The trolls and haters don't use facts and thus they ignore posts like yours like the plague.
And that is also a fact.
Or maybe pages written in Norwegian don't really help so much on forums with an English speaking majority? I'm betting that is a fact.
click on the small UK flag in the top right corner. Gives you the same site in english.
Originally posted by BishopB:
Are a lot of the trolls just angry kids with old gaming hardware?
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by Aceundor
Originally posted by WisebutCruel
Originally posted by Guillermo197
Originally posted by Aceundor
Originally posted by GiveMePvP
Originally posted by AllNewMMOSuk
Not all of these companies are ever publicly traded companies so I don't believe it has anything to do with stock. I think most companies prefer to keep all their business information to themselves, and really as players we shouldn't care. Try an MMO if you feel there are not enough players in the world, try a different one. But saying there's 150,000 or 300,000 players won't really affect your in-game experience
This is true but subscription numbers might affect the future of AoC. Funcom still has A LOT of debt and it needs to be paid off somehow. If subscriptions drop way below 100k, Funcom is in DEEP trouble. They are going to have to fire even more people and this will make patches and expansions even less frequent.
It would really suck to current players who spent all that time leveling up characters only to hear that Funcom is going to shut down servers next month. I don't think it will happen next month but who knows, it COULD happen in the near future.
I see no harm in talking about subscription numbers since they are a very important aspect of MMO's.
oh, man,. you just keep lying.
Funcom has more cash than debt. Please check your facts. Go read fincancial statemems at www.ose.no
The trolls and haters don't use facts and thus they ignore posts like yours like the plague.
And that is also a fact.
Or maybe pages written in Norwegian don't really help so much on forums with an English speaking majority? I'm betting that is a fact.
click on the small UK flag in the top right corner. Gives you the same site in english.
Can anyone say why LOTRO, a well received overall game, that could quite very well be classed as successful, doesn't release sub numbers? Especially with all those good scores and a nice expac up it's sleeve. Oh and all the people that got laid off too? anyone bitch about that?
Comments
You would not reveal even good numbers if you think it might go down in the near future. If you start releasing numbers people expect you to continue, and once you stop they will assume that the numbers are bad.
Thus you only release numbers at the very start to keep the pre-launch hype on the marketing and sales channels going for as long as you can. You stop releasing numbers - no, not when the subscription numbers go down - when the acquisition numbers show that the hype effect is now over, which will happen before the numbers drop. Your focus after that is 90% retention and 10% acquisition, thus marketing by numbers is pretty much useless.
The smart way of doing numbers after that is the way I suspect they did with WAR; state positive single day or single week numbers, ignoring that they do not represent the trend.
- "We had way more players online today than the same day last week", while the same day last week was the evening of the Superbowl and thus really low.
- "I checked the subscriber numbers just now, and they're most definitely up from yesterday", when yesterday was a day after a billing cycle meaning yesterday they dropped a lot and today those who forgot to renew have come back.
Majority of companies will not release any kind of numbers, not subscribers, not profits, not losses. They don't want people to incorrectly interpret such numbers and leave the game because of it.
As much as I dislike AoC, not releasing sub numbers means absolutly nothing at all.
I sm not really sure why the majority of MMO companies withhold subscription numbers. WoW for example reports a subscription number but it appears to be a total number of subscirbers WoW has had since release not the current active subscribers.
I assume that the real number of MMO subscribers is some type of trade secret or something.
Wait. You have an MBA and this is still hard for you to grasp?
This has nothing to do with anyone's personal affinity or hatred for a game, rather a simple matter of basic understanding of marketing.
In what industries do anyone but the top companies advertise their numbers?
Why give ammo to the competition to fire back at you?
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
I sm not really sure why the majority of MMO companies withhold subscription numbers. WoW for example reports a subscription number but it appears to be a total number of subscirbers WoW has had since release not the current active subscribers.
I assume that the real number of MMO subscribers is some type of trade secret or something.
It's no trade secret. It's quite simple really.
If an MMO has a lot of subscriptions and is growing, it's in company's best interest to let to public know. If on the other hand subscriptions are staying where they are or going down, it might be better to keep quit because all negative news makes the stock go down and even more players might quit.
My theory is that trials didn't generate as much new subscriptions as Funcom hoped. Negative word-of-mouth has made thousands of players not to buy AoC. On this forum you can read a lot of positive things about AoC but most gamers know ex-AoC players in REAL LIFE and those players usually say AoC sucks.
Funcom is just keeping quit to avoid further failure.
It's no trade secret. It's quite simple really.
If an MMO has a lot of subscriptions and is growing, it's in company's best interest to let to public know. If on the other hand subscriptions are staying where they are or going down, it might be better to keep quit because all negative news makes the stock go down and even more players might quit.
My theory is that trials didn't generate as much new subscriptions as Funcom hoped. Negative word-of-mouth has made thousands of players not to buy AoC. On this forum you can read a lot of positive things about AoC but most gamers know ex-AoC players in REAL LIFE and those players usually say AoC sucks.
Funcom is just keeping quit to avoid further failure.
Not all of these companies are ever publicly traded companies so I don't believe it has anything to do with stock. I think most companies prefer to keep all their business information to themselves, and really as players we shouldn't care. Try an MMO if you feel there are not enough players in the world, try a different one. But saying there's 150,000 or 300,000 players won't really affect your in-game experience
You’re very welcome, Captain intentionally-manipulating-words, or Madam argumentative-even-though-she-knows-she’s-been-proven-wrong-at-least-5-times.
I think you have a completely diluted and warped sense of reality if you think any company would go father then “we’re disappointed w/ “X”…” when relating to how their business model is doing. Which Craig and many other FC people have admitted. While they haven’t coddled to the frothing, rabid animals that demand death to their families, they have stated on several occasions (through “PR crap”) that they are disappointed with the launch. And well it should be. They eff’d shit up at launch. Lied, released broken, had gapping, glaring holes in content, and basically sold the shell of a game. As far as when they did talk about numbers, that was when? At launch, when they were initially rocking the market?
What you’re missing here… and please, take it one word at a time. Sound it out, and read it fully before you start to respond… they don’t have to release a damn thing b/c you “want” them to. They don’t need your, mine, or any other Joe-diddly-do-dad’s approval or justification. You, as an individual, are not important to Funcom, as a corporation. Whining, bitching, throwing the preverbal forum tantrum means jack shit to them. They’ve been blitzing the media lately, b/c the game has evolved to a place where a lot of the people that left (and aren’t jaded, or unwilling to give another look) can come back and potentially be interested by a very fleshed out, polished and fun game. The last of that is my personal opinion, and likely that of FC. But, that’s their thinking behind the trials, and the soon-to-come vet return offer.
If it’s 1 million, 1 hundred thousand, or 1 damn person, it makes little difference. They don’t have to inform you of it. So, demanding information, and calling them out for not running their company the way you want, makes you look about inept as a Judge Judy defendant. It’s ok though. Anyone with an iota of common sense sees right through your agenda mongering garbage, so carry on.
Not all of these companies are ever publicly traded companies so I don't believe it has anything to do with stock. I think most companies prefer to keep all their business information to themselves, and really as players we shouldn't care. Try an MMO if you feel there are not enough players in the world, try a different one. But saying there's 150,000 or 300,000 players won't really affect your in-game experience
This is true but subscription numbers might affect the future of AoC. Funcom still has A LOT of debt and it needs to be paid off somehow. If subscriptions drop way below 100k, Funcom is in DEEP trouble. They are going to have to fire even more people and this will make patches and expansions even less frequent.
It would really suck to current players who spent all that time leveling up characters only to hear that Funcom is going to shut down servers next month. I don't think it will happen next month but who knows, it COULD happen in the near future.
I see no harm in talking about subscription numbers since they are a very important aspect of MMO's.
Why?
Well $40 Million USD in development costs for AoC is probably why.
It will be many years before FC turns a profit from AoC, if ever.
Not exactly information a publicaly held (penny stock) company would be smart to advertise.
I'm not sure why people say 'most' companies don't release their numbers
WOW does very frequently
EVE does all the time
Warhammer did recently (325k as of Dec 31st).
Being a publicly traded company has nothing to do with it. Warhammer and WOW are both owned by publicly traded companies, and both released numbers.
And if people think 'who cares how many people play it' then take a look at how long patches are on the test server because there is no inhouse QA, think about all the broken stuff that comes with every patch, and how long it takes to get fixed. And most importantly, look at how little content is in our patches, and how far they are apart.
AOC is on a downward spiral and soon to be free2play like AO... They are focusing their efforts on The Secret World.
How many MMO's are out there? WoW and EVE makes only 2 MMO's out of how many? Enough said.
WAR's sub numbers as of Dec. 31th are not known as EA still hasn't released their Q4 2008 report and even posponed it again to May 12th.
The only real numbers were announced in the Q3 2008 report last year that their numbers were down at 350k in Early october from 700k registered in September (wich is still suggestive about if it's number registered or paying subscribers or combination of both (I believe the last)).
After that announcement Mark Jacobs has gone dead silent about subscription numbers.
So that leaves us with WoW and EVE Online.
And about publicly traded or not. SOE and NcSoft don't release subscription numbers of any of their games either and have never done so. Only the total amount of cash flow.
And those are the two largest P2P MMO development and publisher companies on the Western Market.
Cheers
Well said.
How many MMO's are out there? WoW and EVE makes only 2 MMO's out of how many? Enough said.
WAR's sub numbers as of Dec. 31th are not known as EA still hasn't released their Q4 2008 report and even posponed it again to May 12th.
The only real numbers were announced in the Q3 2008 report last year that their numbers were down at 350k in Early october from 700k registered in September (wich is still suggestive about if it's number registered or paying subscribers or combination of both (I believe the last)).
After that announcement Mark Jacobs has gone dead silent about subscription numbers.
So that leaves us with WoW and EVE Online.
And about publicly traded or not. SOE and NcSoft don't release subscription numbers of any of their games either and have never done so. Only the total amount of cash flow.
And those are the two largest P2P MMO development and publisher companies on the Western Market.
Cheers
well said Guillermo197
Originally posted by BishopB:
Are a lot of the trolls just angry kids with old gaming hardware?
Not all of these companies are ever publicly traded companies so I don't believe it has anything to do with stock. I think most companies prefer to keep all their business information to themselves, and really as players we shouldn't care. Try an MMO if you feel there are not enough players in the world, try a different one. But saying there's 150,000 or 300,000 players won't really affect your in-game experience
This is true but subscription numbers might affect the future of AoC. Funcom still has A LOT of debt and it needs to be paid off somehow. If subscriptions drop way below 100k, Funcom is in DEEP trouble. They are going to have to fire even more people and this will make patches and expansions even less frequent.
It would really suck to current players who spent all that time leveling up characters only to hear that Funcom is going to shut down servers next month. I don't think it will happen next month but who knows, it COULD happen in the near future.
I see no harm in talking about subscription numbers since they are a very important aspect of MMO's.
oh, man,. you just keep lying.
Funcom has more cash than debt. Please check your facts. Go read fincancial statemems at www.ose.no
Originally posted by BishopB:
Are a lot of the trolls just angry kids with old gaming hardware?
I see a pattern with Funcom's products.
Anarchy Online launch fails -> players quit -> AO goes F2P
Age of Conan launch fails -> players quit -> AoC goes F2P
Secret World launch fails? ...
You think Secret World will bomb? I mean after Anarchy Online and Age of Conan BOTH failed miserably at launch, who in their right mind will preorder The Secret World? Not me for one.
How many MMO's are out there? WoW and EVE makes only 2 MMO's out of how many? Enough said.
WAR's sub numbers as of Dec. 31th are not known as EA still hasn't released their Q4 2008 report and even posponed it again to May 12th.
The only real numbers were announced in the Q3 2008 report last year that their numbers were down at 350k in Early october from 700k registered in September (wich is still suggestive about if it's number registered or paying subscribers or combination of both (I believe the last)).
After that announcement Mark Jacobs has gone dead silent about subscription numbers.
So that leaves us with WoW and EVE Online.
And about publicly traded or not. SOE and NcSoft don't release subscription numbers of any of their games either and have never done so. Only the total amount of cash flow.
And those are the two largest P2P MMO development and publisher companies on the Western Market.
Cheers
My bad (kinda). EA uses a weird calendar year. Their 4th quarter is actually the (jan-mar) quarter. Their 3rd quarter ends on Dec 31st (which most companies call the 4th quarter).
In any event, on February 3rd.. EA announced their '3rd quarter' report which covered up until dec 31st, and in that report they announced Warhammer had 350k subscribers as of Dec 31st.
if anyone wants to read something funny ( a bit ot).. here is the article where one of the PR people from Warhammer predicted that warhammer would have 3M subscribers in it's first year http://www.massively.com/2008/09/17/warhammer-online-director-expects-three-million-subscribers/
Just in the name of clarity, AO does have a free account program, but it only gives access to the basic, original launch game plus the first booseter pack (notum wars), but if you wanna play the expansions you have to both buy them and pay 15$ a month or a lower fee if you just want to use a number of the expansions (5$ a month each of the 3).
The free accounts program works also as a trial, most of the people i knew in the game started as "froobs" and later upgraded their acocunts tot he 15/month subscription, me included.
The problem is that too many ppl expect new mmorpg to reach 1 millions subscriber.Because of WoW.Well WoW it's was a PHENOMENON.
and it's false.A lot of ppl are resubbing.Myself i did and i keep seing newcomer.Not on trial but true newbies.The game getting better and better.Most MMORPG did not reach peak after 2-3 years.
You make it sound like it's somehow IMPOSSIBLE to get 1 million subscribers right from the start. It's not impossible. Age of Conan had something like 800k just after launch but the problem was that the game SECKED and everyone quit. Had it been good, AoC would have easily reached the 1 million subscriber mark.
Sure WoW is the big dog but there are also a lot of players looking for that alternative to WoW. According to all the hype AoC was supposed to be that alternative but now we know the different. Age of Conan has so many fundamental problems that it will never again reach those big numbers it had at launch.
My theory is that most current of the AoC players are not having that much fun with the game. They are just so desperate in finding that WoW alternative that anything goes really.
Probally because they dont have 7 million gold farmers playing like that game that does release subscrition numbers. Really who cares how many people play. 95 % of the people I run into in mmos I never want to run into again anyways.
Not all of these companies are ever publicly traded companies so I don't believe it has anything to do with stock. I think most companies prefer to keep all their business information to themselves, and really as players we shouldn't care. Try an MMO if you feel there are not enough players in the world, try a different one. But saying there's 150,000 or 300,000 players won't really affect your in-game experience
This is true but subscription numbers might affect the future of AoC. Funcom still has A LOT of debt and it needs to be paid off somehow. If subscriptions drop way below 100k, Funcom is in DEEP trouble. They are going to have to fire even more people and this will make patches and expansions even less frequent.
It would really suck to current players who spent all that time leveling up characters only to hear that Funcom is going to shut down servers next month. I don't think it will happen next month but who knows, it COULD happen in the near future.
I see no harm in talking about subscription numbers since they are a very important aspect of MMO's.
oh, man,. you just keep lying.
Funcom has more cash than debt. Please check your facts. Go read fincancial statemems at www.ose.no
The trolls and haters don't use facts and thus they ignore posts like yours like the plague.
And that is also a fact.
Not all of these companies are ever publicly traded companies so I don't believe it has anything to do with stock. I think most companies prefer to keep all their business information to themselves, and really as players we shouldn't care. Try an MMO if you feel there are not enough players in the world, try a different one. But saying there's 150,000 or 300,000 players won't really affect your in-game experience
This is true but subscription numbers might affect the future of AoC. Funcom still has A LOT of debt and it needs to be paid off somehow. If subscriptions drop way below 100k, Funcom is in DEEP trouble. They are going to have to fire even more people and this will make patches and expansions even less frequent.
It would really suck to current players who spent all that time leveling up characters only to hear that Funcom is going to shut down servers next month. I don't think it will happen next month but who knows, it COULD happen in the near future.
I see no harm in talking about subscription numbers since they are a very important aspect of MMO's.
oh, man,. you just keep lying.
Funcom has more cash than debt. Please check your facts. Go read fincancial statemems at www.ose.no
The trolls and haters don't use facts and thus they ignore posts like yours like the plague.
And that is also a fact.
Or maybe pages written in Norwegian don't really help so much on forums with an English speaking majority? I'm betting that is a fact.
Most MMOs don't release sub numbers. Only a few I've played give you a total number of players that are logged on and most use the same vague general descriptions like "medium". Did Funcom ever fix all the servers saying medium, or do they still lie about even the server load?
I'm no Funcom fan, but I can't kill them for hiding sub numbers, unless WAR releases their Q1 sub numbers. I know EA/Mythic released their somewhat unflattering '08 Q4 numbers, which is more than Funcom did.
Not all of these companies are ever publicly traded companies so I don't believe it has anything to do with stock. I think most companies prefer to keep all their business information to themselves, and really as players we shouldn't care. Try an MMO if you feel there are not enough players in the world, try a different one. But saying there's 150,000 or 300,000 players won't really affect your in-game experience
This is true but subscription numbers might affect the future of AoC. Funcom still has A LOT of debt and it needs to be paid off somehow. If subscriptions drop way below 100k, Funcom is in DEEP trouble. They are going to have to fire even more people and this will make patches and expansions even less frequent.
It would really suck to current players who spent all that time leveling up characters only to hear that Funcom is going to shut down servers next month. I don't think it will happen next month but who knows, it COULD happen in the near future.
I see no harm in talking about subscription numbers since they are a very important aspect of MMO's.
oh, man,. you just keep lying.
Funcom has more cash than debt. Please check your facts. Go read fincancial statemems at www.ose.no
The trolls and haters don't use facts and thus they ignore posts like yours like the plague.
And that is also a fact.
Or maybe pages written in Norwegian don't really help so much on forums with an English speaking majority? I'm betting that is a fact.
click on the small UK flag in the top right corner. Gives you the same site in english.
Originally posted by BishopB:
Are a lot of the trolls just angry kids with old gaming hardware?
Not all of these companies are ever publicly traded companies so I don't believe it has anything to do with stock. I think most companies prefer to keep all their business information to themselves, and really as players we shouldn't care. Try an MMO if you feel there are not enough players in the world, try a different one. But saying there's 150,000 or 300,000 players won't really affect your in-game experience
This is true but subscription numbers might affect the future of AoC. Funcom still has A LOT of debt and it needs to be paid off somehow. If subscriptions drop way below 100k, Funcom is in DEEP trouble. They are going to have to fire even more people and this will make patches and expansions even less frequent.
It would really suck to current players who spent all that time leveling up characters only to hear that Funcom is going to shut down servers next month. I don't think it will happen next month but who knows, it COULD happen in the near future.
I see no harm in talking about subscription numbers since they are a very important aspect of MMO's.
oh, man,. you just keep lying.
Funcom has more cash than debt. Please check your facts. Go read fincancial statemems at www.ose.no
The trolls and haters don't use facts and thus they ignore posts like yours like the plague.
And that is also a fact.
Or maybe pages written in Norwegian don't really help so much on forums with an English speaking majority? I'm betting that is a fact.
click on the small UK flag in the top right corner. Gives you the same site in english.
Can anyone say why LOTRO, a well received overall game, that could quite very well be classed as successful, doesn't release sub numbers? Especially with all those good scores and a nice expac up it's sleeve. Oh and all the people that got laid off too? anyone bitch about that?
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