Ya know, I recently returned to EQ1 within the last couple weeks. A LOT has changed since my last real time playing (8 Years ago). I have to admit I am actually enjoying it again. My cleric has gained 12 levels in basically a week. 47 to 59. 4 of those levels were just last night. So I have to say they have definatly upped the exp you get per kill (especially if your in one of the hot zones). Mercs are great. It makes it so that some of those classes that couldnt solo worth a dime, can now solo with their merc. I really do like some of the changes they added but in a way I feel they also have "sold out" to the mainstream with a lot of the changes. It took my mage a solid week of fighting to gain 1 level post 50 back then. My cleric solo with my merc can gain 1-2 levels a night post 50. Maybe they made it give to much exp. POK always seems to have many people in it, but the old zones have almost none. its sad for very many reasons.
I hate to say it, but the system they have now, may be the closest compromise of the old and new MMO's. Its not without its flaws. the graphics and animations are horrible compared to todays games but the game play is still mostly the same. I do not like the new starting zones, they are definatly way to "new mmoish" for me. I liked the fact that you had to explore the world and figure out what the key phrases were to actually get a quest and then once you got it, you had to figure out where to go. Although I think I would have liked a little more help in that area, but its still way better in terms of using your brain than todays mmo's are. My two biggest issues with going back to eq! I cant get none of my friends to go back and play and I am giving money to sony in the form of monthly fees. I dont mind monthly fees at all, playing 4 games right now and 3 of them are pay to play but I just feel dirty giving money to sony again after all the trivial trash they have brought out since eq. Personally I am just waiting and hoping that star trek comes out soon and doesn't suck! I could see myself playing that game a good long while if it doesn't suck (of course it probably will though).
A very good summary of where things stand. In truth, I suspect that there are dozens of 1% communities out there waiting for a game that they could play with great enthusiasm. A perhaps obvious question is whether or not the games industry can figure out how to target content for that size audience.
Games are for fun to enjoy free time life but people make it their life, play MMO like zombies burn out after playing every single title, then come to forums to cry and moan about how much this genre sucks. Fault is with people who have nothing better to do then spending whole day in front of computer.
On the other hand there are people like me who get one to two hours a max a day soemtimes only weekends. I still have to get bored because of overplaying. Fault is with young MMO crowd with way too much free time on hands and not MMOs itself.
I'll agree, the mainstreaming of MMO's and modern technology (voice coms) has dramatically changed the MMORPG gaming experience. The thing is, OP didn't change. I understand this, I miss the challenge (ok, call them timesinks) that the older games had at times, but then again, not having to rest for 2-3 minutes after a strong fight has a certain appeal to it which is why most games take this path now. Sure, during that downtime we used to do other things, chat with our group mates, read a book, level another character, but I'm not sure I'd really appreciate those "features" in a game anymore. Why do I say this? Because those features are still available in the older games, and just like the OP, I'm not playing them. Sure, OP can say thats because no one else is there, but we know that's not true. You can still play EQ 1 and find many other folks playing, so OP could go back if he wanted to. But he doesn't want to. He wants a new game built after the old model, (so do I ) but realistically, not likely to happen, nor would many players accept it if it did. (much criticism was directed at VG because they incorportated old school concepts like death penalties, corpse runs and long travel times) Face it, most of us who've been playing these games have come to appreciate some of the modern conveniences, and we're not likely to go back.
this simply isnt true. You ask any TRUE fan of the old everquest to go back and see what it is today and he might faint. The old memories we have of that game are golden and that game is a steaming pile of crap right now. I tried going back to it due to the fact im tired of paying for WoW version 1,2,3,4,etc. Its dead...nobody plays it anymore and so many stupid ideas have been added into it its disgusting. Even some of the lame newer mmo standards have been poorly slapped onto it. Give me old everquest with the same experience and i would go back to it in a heartbeat.
Im not just looking for the new everquest though, im open to something new. The same crap over and over again though isnt anything new. Its just run into town find a big symbol over a guys head. Bring him 10 daisies then go back out again and bring back 15 deer droppings. After your finished with that he tells you where you can find the next guy with a big symbol over his head. Repeat this until you get to max level and then you can start raiding where everything is scripted now. Stand here at 50%, do this at 20%, get ready for his breath attack at 10%. For a while it was nice having these unique fights, but i hate how every raid encounter goes exactly the same way every single time.
You can have my stuff from: UO, EQ, DAOC, EQ2, Eve, Wow, Ryzom, Vanguard, Darkfall because I think I'm giving up on this Genre for the foreseeable future. As I write this I'm asking myself: Why am I bothering to write this.....and ultimately its for my own closure. I have no expectations from this community. However, I must say that I have enjoyed , and proabably will continue to enjoy, the threads on mmorpg.com. I came here from EQ2's failure to rekindle the cooler aspects of Eq1.....as I watched Vanguard go from pre alpha to where it is today (I still say Vanguard is a better sequel to Eq1 than EQ2 and you should play Vanguard if you like old EQ......its not perfect but its the best out there imho).
This genre started out as an extension of PnP DnD with THACOs and AC's and dungeons. Some of my most memorable experiences in an mmo come from Dungeon Shame, Dungeon Deceit, Mistmoore Castle, The Estate of Unrest, and one of my favs ever - The Tower of Frozen Shadow.
Back then it was all about freedom. I could go to these places and risk death and the reward was exploration. I remember how emmersive it was to be in the basement of unrest and hearing the footsteps of the ghouls on the floor above. I remember the being charmed in TOFS and running around training the mobs and feeling something from the experience. I for one thought the Pok books were really, really cool. I was a relative latecomer to EQ1 but having those books where I could "fly" up to EQ's version of Olympus and then re-decend back down to material planes.....and The Grey....what a place. Despite the name I rarely did quests in EQ and UO had none back in the day. Task driven content is something new and something many of you seem to enjoy. I for one hate being dragged by the nose around the world.
I'm a pretty smart guy and I have done some analysis as to why the current crop of mmos do nothing to rekindle the feelings of old. Its actaully a complex answer that is not attributed to a single factor. However, I am able to summarize why this genre fails me in 2009. -The commercialization of MMO's has turned out to be horrible for the genre.....period. These mmos are obviously a business and their aims are to attract as many players as possible. The problem is my gaming style is obsolete. I don 't do vent, I don't have time to group for the entireity of my gaming session to enjoy the best the game has to offer. I need to go afk to change the Dora DVD or make sure my kid has his homework done right or whatever. This genre appeals to a younger crowd or to men /boys who dont have / bother with / family responsibilities. (Sorry females no offense but you are clearly the minority). I enjoy text chatting and I am capable of reading it in all forms. I HATE hearing a lvl 50 Warrior sound like a kid who hasn't hit puberty yet.....sorry. - The Rosetta stone of MMO gaming that has made WoW so much money is something all developers now follow. The very fact there is a model is part of the creative problem. Every game has a con system that lets you see if a mob is suposed to be group or solo. Every mmo has task driven drivel for the solo gamer and all "dungeon content" is geared towards groups. I can't tell you how many times I headed to SolB to do my own thing and then encounter other lone wolfs doing the same. This used to be HOW i met new people in game. Now you do not even set foot in the dungeon without having your Healer/DPS/Tank combo set up.
-The mmorpg lingo discuists me. I hate how every cliche phrase that originates from wow enters into mainstream internet lingo. It makes me puke a little bit each time when I see the stupid trendy catch phrases appear all over the place. I have always been the type of person that does NOT watch MTV, or CNN and popular cutlure generally makes me ill. I now have more fun watching Carl Sagan DVD's then I do reading Barrens Chat....by a factor of a gooelplex. -I don't seem to share the same opinions as many of you, clearly. Look at WoW and the other AAA or even AA titles out there. This genre and I have grown apart because I do not seem to fit into the defacto status quo. So rather then look for games that meet my partially meet my interests I think I'm just going to give up outright, I'm done chasing the rainbow of the next big release. I have never really ever had any problems balancing my real life responsibilities with my gaming recreation (except maybe in the very beginning). So I don't consider myself a problem gamer but since this genre fails to entertain me its time to find something else do to like model airplanes or something. -I'm tired. I'm tired of being told that what I want is the 'first kiss' cliches. Its simply untrue. What I want is a massive multiplayer onling ROLEPLAYING game where there is some semblance of dnd style extra world feel. The words themepark and sandbox are both misnomers and have lead us all astray. So, to all of you cool folks on the forums best of luck I hope you enjoy your games. To all you self centered, egotistical, narrow minded morons....thanks for being entertaining with your total lack of intelligence. - There used to be a unique relationship between monlthy subscriber and the devleoper because tehy knew that in order to keep you paying your monthly fee they had to give you something special. Look at Adventurine as an example for how thats being handled now. Your time doesn't mean jack shit to these assholes....remember that. They don't care about you or your time or your experience. -The lack of creativitiy and innovation (go look up the word innovation) is solely on the backs of developers and publishers (as a collective). They choose to continue to develop C++ applications built on a template rather then trying something new. - I hate the cliche pvp crowd. I believe they are a conceputal extension of competitive players but anonymous and unaccountable. In hockey you got the penality box, in Basketball you got fouls. I do not think that pvp has a place necessairly in MY definiion of a MMORPG because human beings tend to do things in games for no other reason other then can and developers have failed to balance this since long term murder counts. Some people just really enjoy being assholes because they need to make up for some other shortcoming in their life. They are always the ones griefing the character template DESIGNED to be fodder and are always the ones denying it. The modern notion of pvp will always overshadows any "honest" pvp battle.
Now that i have done that I guess I feel better. If i have any advice to anyone who may be less experienced than I in this genre my final bit of advice to you is: dont settle and dont pay developers to rip you off. If you do find a game and a style that you like, support it. Never buy a game without a trial. Never buy a game without a trial. Never buy a game without a trial. Camp check, Train to zone ,Fly safe, GG , fade to black......at least for now, lfg no more.
There are quite a few of us who feel exactly the same way you do bro.
Check my signature. Its a website / forum more or less dedicated to those of us just sick and tired of the standard drivel and seeking alternatives.
Yeah, I'm with ya too, OP. Although I never liked the EQ type of game from the start. I loved UO except for the out of control PKing. The simulated world that you could do things in and to. The more open socialness of a game without wide divisions by levels, where you'd get to know other players because you saw them all the time, did business with them, chatted with them at local events, saw them at dungeon entrances or deeper inside. The diversity of options, not just of things to do, but of completely different play type options. A true world simulation, not just a game of this or that with a backdrop.
Ahh, well, I keep a lazy eye open anymore, but no expectations.
I am only 25, but started with MUDs and RP chatrooms and moved on to UO in 97. Games now, I do not find the same fun in. They are too linear and do little to let players create an actual community. MMORPGs now have lost the RP aspect due to saturation of the masses which leads to a less mature player base (with that, I find many mature non rpers who play on rp servers, their reason: "to play with a more mature crowd").
I play newer MMOs and something happens that I didn't use to feel. I hit a wall of advancement, gotten the best gear through pve dungeons, have a high pvp ranking and done this with many alts. I feel like I have beaten the game, and to me, a MMO should be continuous without this feeling.
Sure, games gain new content with expansions or live updates, but lately such things have been a one time view and move on in coordinance with how progression in the game is set up.
Now, there isn't to say that nostalgia doesn't weigh in towards, but that can not be used as a total escuse for the feelings towards current mmos.
Comments
Ya know, I recently returned to EQ1 within the last couple weeks. A LOT has changed since my last real time playing (8 Years ago). I have to admit I am actually enjoying it again. My cleric has gained 12 levels in basically a week. 47 to 59. 4 of those levels were just last night. So I have to say they have definatly upped the exp you get per kill (especially if your in one of the hot zones). Mercs are great. It makes it so that some of those classes that couldnt solo worth a dime, can now solo with their merc. I really do like some of the changes they added but in a way I feel they also have "sold out" to the mainstream with a lot of the changes. It took my mage a solid week of fighting to gain 1 level post 50 back then. My cleric solo with my merc can gain 1-2 levels a night post 50. Maybe they made it give to much exp. POK always seems to have many people in it, but the old zones have almost none. its sad for very many reasons.
I hate to say it, but the system they have now, may be the closest compromise of the old and new MMO's. Its not without its flaws. the graphics and animations are horrible compared to todays games but the game play is still mostly the same. I do not like the new starting zones, they are definatly way to "new mmoish" for me. I liked the fact that you had to explore the world and figure out what the key phrases were to actually get a quest and then once you got it, you had to figure out where to go. Although I think I would have liked a little more help in that area, but its still way better in terms of using your brain than todays mmo's are. My two biggest issues with going back to eq! I cant get none of my friends to go back and play and I am giving money to sony in the form of monthly fees. I dont mind monthly fees at all, playing 4 games right now and 3 of them are pay to play but I just feel dirty giving money to sony again after all the trivial trash they have brought out since eq. Personally I am just waiting and hoping that star trek comes out soon and doesn't suck! I could see myself playing that game a good long while if it doesn't suck (of course it probably will though).
A very good summary of where things stand. In truth, I suspect that there are dozens of 1% communities out there waiting for a game that they could play with great enthusiasm. A perhaps obvious question is whether or not the games industry can figure out how to target content for that size audience.
Games are for fun to enjoy free time life but people make it their life, play MMO like zombies burn out after playing every single title, then come to forums to cry and moan about how much this genre sucks. Fault is with people who have nothing better to do then spending whole day in front of computer.
On the other hand there are people like me who get one to two hours a max a day soemtimes only weekends. I still have to get bored because of overplaying. Fault is with young MMO crowd with way too much free time on hands and not MMOs itself.
this simply isnt true. You ask any TRUE fan of the old everquest to go back and see what it is today and he might faint. The old memories we have of that game are golden and that game is a steaming pile of crap right now. I tried going back to it due to the fact im tired of paying for WoW version 1,2,3,4,etc. Its dead...nobody plays it anymore and so many stupid ideas have been added into it its disgusting. Even some of the lame newer mmo standards have been poorly slapped onto it. Give me old everquest with the same experience and i would go back to it in a heartbeat.
Im not just looking for the new everquest though, im open to something new. The same crap over and over again though isnt anything new. Its just run into town find a big symbol over a guys head. Bring him 10 daisies then go back out again and bring back 15 deer droppings. After your finished with that he tells you where you can find the next guy with a big symbol over his head. Repeat this until you get to max level and then you can start raiding where everything is scripted now. Stand here at 50%, do this at 20%, get ready for his breath attack at 10%. For a while it was nice having these unique fights, but i hate how every raid encounter goes exactly the same way every single time.
There are quite a few of us who feel exactly the same way you do bro.
Check my signature. Its a website / forum more or less dedicated to those of us just sick and tired of the standard drivel and seeking alternatives.
Yeah, I'm with ya too, OP. Although I never liked the EQ type of game from the start. I loved UO except for the out of control PKing. The simulated world that you could do things in and to. The more open socialness of a game without wide divisions by levels, where you'd get to know other players because you saw them all the time, did business with them, chatted with them at local events, saw them at dungeon entrances or deeper inside. The diversity of options, not just of things to do, but of completely different play type options. A true world simulation, not just a game of this or that with a backdrop.
Ahh, well, I keep a lazy eye open anymore, but no expectations.
Once upon a time....
I totally agree with the OP.
I am only 25, but started with MUDs and RP chatrooms and moved on to UO in 97. Games now, I do not find the same fun in. They are too linear and do little to let players create an actual community. MMORPGs now have lost the RP aspect due to saturation of the masses which leads to a less mature player base (with that, I find many mature non rpers who play on rp servers, their reason: "to play with a more mature crowd").
I play newer MMOs and something happens that I didn't use to feel. I hit a wall of advancement, gotten the best gear through pve dungeons, have a high pvp ranking and done this with many alts. I feel like I have beaten the game, and to me, a MMO should be continuous without this feeling.
Sure, games gain new content with expansions or live updates, but lately such things have been a one time view and move on in coordinance with how progression in the game is set up.
Now, there isn't to say that nostalgia doesn't weigh in towards, but that can not be used as a total escuse for the feelings towards current mmos.
The original Septimus circa 1995
Your post made me want to go listen to Rosetta Stone. Amazing old Darkwavish band from the 90's.. check them out!