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robertb
Member UncommonPosts: 684
Is it possible to have a true sandbox style mmo in an FFA PVP environment with no safe zones?
Why or why not?
Comments
maybe it would be a good start if you describe your idea of "sandbox"
My idea of a sandbox is actually irrelevant as I am asking for your opinion.
There needs to be SOME sort of restriction to prevent players from getting ganked the moment they load into the game, and to allow new players to become familiar with the controls, UI, and mechanics before being tossed out into the cold. Beyond that, I don't see why we can't have a FFA PvP sandbox. Sadly, it seems most developers use the label "sandbox" as an excuse to leave their world completely devoid of content.
Isn't that the ideal sandbox?
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
It is possible, but that's related to how the core mechanics are designed.
A few core mechanics that are important to work for a sandbox style with FFA PVP environment with no safe zones.
- Death Penalty system
- looting system
- combat system
- player regulation tool system (for player bounty, and how to regulate PvP'ers to create balance)
Also, sometimes there may need to be a design compromise such as limited safe zones so people who are non-combat characters will not be overwhelmed by the FFA PvP system.
Anyway, it is workable, but depends on how the systems are designed.
Current MMO: FFXIV:ARR
Past MMO: Way too many (P2P and F2P)
No in my opinion it's NOT possible to have a true sandbox style MMO, what is possible is like we see today to have certain sandbox aspects within a MMORPG game and sure that could be mixed with an FFA PVP enviroment. So far I do not know any true sandbox MMO's other then having MMO's that have certain sandbox feature's.
Isn't that the ideal sandbox?
"Content" doesn't have to mean tons of kill quests and assorted quest mobs everywhere. It's high time we distanced ourselves from the WoW wrought mentality of what "content" is and should be.
What you guys fail to understand and the reason why it is (not impossible) but really hard to create a game like that is one word.... EXPLOIT!
Your fantasy games that your brain imagine, looks great and so "free to do anything you like" in your head, but they just can't work in real, cause people WILL find a way to exploit cause of the freedom and gain the advantage in the game... and inevitably everyone will do the exact same.
If for example you gain a lot of things from player killing (looting, exp, honor system etc) people will just run around killing easy targets or worst huge raids will roam and killing everything in sight. Therefore, it won't be enjoyable for people that don't have 10-20 friends to defend themselves.
If there are ancient dragons roaming in the world (not instanced) appearing in different places throwing fear to adventurers, but dropping great artifacts (which sounds ultra cool in mind) ... people WILL track their movements and raids will wait in the possible spawing places/routes to kill them AS FAST AS possible! Therefore this epic feeling starts to wear off cause of that.
Huge unbalances can easily be created through a true sandbox, for example in a recent game, darkfall... groups of people already found a way to power level / gather gold to create the so called ships, now 0.1% of the population got what it takes to totally destroy other (more casual maybe) players cities, kinda ruining their enjoyment of the game.
It needs a really intelligent man to find the way to create thouse boundaries in the game that will, in the one hand protect the game from getting out of control, but in the other hand be invisible so the players can feel like they are free to do whatever they want in the game.
A true sandbox will have many different places where a clever answer must be made to overcome the difficulties, but lets think one of our own to see what we can do:
I guess everyone wants to be able to loot something from the player he just killed. What will you, the creator of the game, think to stop players from non-stopping chasing easy/low health targets or making groups of 5-10 people and roaming the world killing solo or small groups of friends?
One answer I can quick think of is a system where a player can choose a city where he is "known to live" so whenever someone kills him, he instantly drop his reputation to that city, slowly becoming hostile to the guards of the city and soon NPCs will give quests to bring that player's head for a healthy amount of gold! That way players will think twice before killing every random easy target they see in front of them!
(In fact this idea sounds really awesome in my mind! :P But I dont know if it could work well in real!)
Anyway... your ideas are welcomed!
It is possible, but that's related to how the core mechanics are designed.
A few core mechanics that are important to work for a sandbox style with FFA PVP environment with no safe zones.
- Death Penalty system
- looting system
- combat system
- player regulation tool system (for player bounty, and how to regulate PvP'ers to create balance)
Also, sometimes there may need to be a design compromise such as limited safe zones so people who are non-combat characters will not be overwhelmed by the FFA PvP system.
Anyway, it is workable, but depends on how the systems are designed.
So you are saying that it is, in fact, not possible to have a true sandbox style mmo in an FFA PVP environment with no safe zones.
In your mind, for a sandbox game to work, there needs to be some sort of protected area.
Did I read that correctly?
So if, in fact, such a game was created where there was sufficient content, in your opinion, would such a game work with no safe zones, say beyond restricting the griefing of brand new players?
It is possible, but that's related to how the core mechanics are designed.
A few core mechanics that are important to work for a sandbox style with FFA PVP environment with no safe zones.
- Death Penalty system
- looting system
- combat system
- player regulation tool system (for player bounty, and how to regulate PvP'ers to create balance)
Also, sometimes there may need to be a design compromise such as limited safe zones so people who are non-combat characters will not be overwhelmed by the FFA PvP system.
Anyway, it is workable, but depends on how the systems are designed.
So you are saying that it is, in fact, not possible to have a true sandbox style mmo in an FFA PVP environment with no safe zones.
In your mind, for a sandbox game to work, there needs to be some sort of protected area.
Did I read that correctly?
No, what I am saying is that it all depends on the way the system works. If the core system mechanics supports FFA PvP with no safe zone, then sure, it would work (the issue of how severe the death penalty is, the method of player regulating the PvP through tools, how item/gear intensive the combat is, places to log in/log out, etc... All need to be deal with from the core system).
It's easier to have limited safe zone, but it IS possible to have a game with no safe zone...
Current MMO: FFXIV:ARR
Past MMO: Way too many (P2P and F2P)
With no safe zones, there would be only a handful of people playing, and they probably have the nerves that would go into the Guinness World Record book.
Shadowbane did open world PvP pretty well with only 3 safe zones (quite small). The world map was divided into zones (not instanced zones, it's a seamless world) and one of the zones was always a hotzone where the loot percentage was raised much higher and there is always a reason for every player to go out to the hotzone because your toons needed runes that increased your attributes. So there basically were no empty hotzones. Also, the game was quite FFA since you could kill any player from any race. Heck, you could even kill your own guild members.
No, because people that would abuse a system like that and those that support them (basically killers and those that sell what they steal) would be unwilling to accept harsh punishments for their actions. Look at real life if you murder someone look at what happens to you same goes for people that deal in stolen goods.
In EVE there are no safe zones just varying degrees of safety in high sec space, you eventually do pay a price for your ganking but you have to ask yourself is it worth the effort.
So if, in fact, such a game was created where there was sufficient content, in your opinion, would such a game work with no safe zones, say beyond restricting the griefing of brand new players?
Absolutely. In my mind, I see a more dangerous version of the ruleset EVE uses. That is to say, the "safe" area is significantly smaller. Even then, you're not 100% safe in those areas. It's just really difficult and often counterproductive to gank someone in a safe zone.
So players would basically start out in a fairly safe, heavily policed city or region, but in order to get anything done in the game, they'd have to venture out into the lawless wilderness or less policed areas.
This all boils down very easily.
NO, most 'sandbox' people arnt asking for a sandbox game.
They are asking for a themepark game with sandbox elements. They cannot handle a TRUE sandbox game.
There is nothing wrong with this, oviously, but lets not pretend.
New term suggested... SANDPARK (meaning a themepark/ sandbox hybrid)
It might just clear up the confusion to all you guys that demand 'sandbox' but havent the nuts to play ATitD4 (or whatever number it's on) or whatever.