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Spellborn combat - good?

ethionethion Member UncommonPosts: 2,888
in The Chronicles of Spellborn

I'm still a noob and I'm sure it will show.  I've played a few hours.  I am playing on the pve server.

I'm trying to figure out why people think the combat system is good...

1. I've read about the skill deck and while it is a nice idea and building the best sequence is fun I'm not sure that makes the combat system good.  In the end don't you end up just clicking one button mindlessly to fight?

2. Dodging, I'm not sure what people are doing to dodge.  I tried jousting with mobs but found that they could attack me from quite a distance although it is hard to really be precise in the animations and attack damage are not totally in sync.  

3. I also tried straffing and that didn't work much better.  The speed of turning with my straffing isn't much different so I don't find straffing to be very effective.

4. I did find however I can run thorugh the mob getting behind it wait while it turns then back up through it and take a free attack.  This seems like an exploit as the mobs get all jerky when you do this kinda skittering around a bit.   Using this technique I can take almost no damage.

However none of this running around stuff really seems interesting it just makes doing combat more difficult....

I'm supposing at higher levels you can have multiple skill decks so you might have one for normal fighting, one for groups, maybe one for defensive, one for some special type of encounter?

Do you switch around a lot at higher levels or during a fight pretty much stick with one primary skill deck?

Right now other then messing with skill decks which is interesting, combat seems to be hitting one button and figuring out how to move to exploit the game creatures inability to attack you due to bad AI/Game design??

what am I missing?  BTW I'm playing a rogue.

So far in my opinion vanguard and even wow is much better.  Having to pick my skills dynamically based on the situation, skill ups, chains, weaknesses is even more dynamic playing out a set predefined sequence of combat arts.  This is kinda like EQ2 where people make a few macros that have multiple combat arts and just spam that one macro, esecially running through a set sequence of combat arts.

---
Ethion

Comments

  • paulrgodpaulrgod Member UncommonPosts: 240
    Originally posted by ethion


    I'm still a noob and I'm sure it will show.  I've played a few hours.  I am playing on the pve server.
    I'm trying to figure out why people think the combat system is good...
    1. I've read about the skill deck and while it is a nice idea and building the best sequence is fun I'm not sure that makes the combat system good.  In the end don't you end up just clicking one button mindlessly to fight?
    At Lower levels it might just seem a little mindless click fest but as you learn new skills, expand the skilldeck, learn combo openers and finishers it all becomes a lot more complex.  You have to understand how skills interact, how combos are formed etc.  Theres also the states system to think about - physique, morale and concentration (the 3 coloured bars below your HP.) also tied to the PeP system (levels in Pep will increase your states).
    Yellow - Physique - Movement Speed
    Purple - Morale - Damage Output
    Green - Concentration - Skill Deck rotation speed
    These can be reduced by your enemies and buffed by your own skills, the key to these is to build a skilldeck that allows you to increase these making you faster and stronger in battle, while being aware that your enemies are also trying to (and will) reduce them.


    2. Dodging, I'm not sure what people are doing to dodge.  I tried jousting with mobs but found that they could attack me from quite a distance although it is hard to really be precise in the animations and attack damage are not totally in sync.  
    Mindless dodging will get you no-where fast, you have to anticipate the monsters attacks with the animations and sounds they make.   If the attacks seem out of sync are you having lag issues?
    3. I also tried straffing and that didn't work much better.  The speed of turning with my straffing isn't much different so I don't find straffing to be very effective.
    Movement speed is directly associated with your Physique State.  To enable quicker movement speed, dodging ability etc, you need to buff your physique. You'll find some skills you have may increase this during combat.
    4. I did find however I can run thorugh the mob getting behind it wait while it turns then back up through it and take a free attack.  This seems like an exploit as the mobs get all jerky when you do this kinda skittering around a bit.   Using this technique I can take almost no damage.
    To stop this mobs inflict a critical hit on you if you run through them, this is not really noticable to begin with but later on, really hurts.
    However none of this running around stuff really seems interesting it just makes doing combat more difficult....
    When you understand the combat systems i have touched upon above, combat becomes a lot more interesting, it isnt just run around waving your sword around and casting a few spells, its thoughtful and calculated when you understand it all.
    I'm supposing at higher levels you can have multiple skill decks so you might have one for normal fighting, one for groups, maybe one for defensive, one for some special type of encounter?
    There's no way to save different 'builds' atm but i would like to see it implemented at some point as i'm always changing my skilldeck around.
    Do you switch around a lot at higher levels or during a fight pretty much stick with one primary skill deck?
    You will always be tweaking it, it will become an obsession.
    Right now other then messing with skill decks which is interesting, combat seems to be hitting one button and figuring out how to move to exploit the game creatures inability to attack you due to bad AI/Game design??
    See my answers above.
    Just to touch on the AI in the game, this game has some of the most impressive AI ever seen in an MMO, especially apparent in groups of humans, you'll see mages staying behind the ranks, the warriors defending them etc.  And the AI will actually Kite humans, i've seen many falling for it....impressive stuff.
    what am I missing?  BTW I'm playing a rogue.
    I dont think your missing anything, i just dont think you've read up on the combat system and dont fully understand all the layers of it yet. But thats to be expected at such lower levels it's not instantly apparent.
    I'm a Wrathguard (warrior) so am unable to offer any advice on Rogue classes but they've been fun to fight against :)
    Hope my Answers help you better understand and enjoy the game a little more.
    Cheers
    Paul
     

     

  • bmdevinebmdevine Member Posts: 429

    Personally, I don't know that TCoS will be my cup of tea, but I did enjoy the fact that combat took a little more work.  I believe I've seen a lot of people write about how they believe the combat system will level the playing field a bit for PvP so that being higher level will not necessarily mean an automatic win over lower levels. 

  • paulrgodpaulrgod Member UncommonPosts: 240
    Originally posted by bmdevine


    Personally, I don't know that TCoS will be my cup of tea, but I did enjoy the fact that combat took a little more work.  I believe I've seen a lot of people write about how they believe the combat system will level the playing field a bit for PvP so that being higher level will not necessarily mean an automatic win over lower levels. 

     

    Exactly - the PVP in this game is just amazing.

    I'm a lvl 24 Wrathguard atm and the other evening i was able to beat up a lvl 36 Void Seer.

    On the other hand, a few nights ago i was beaten by a lvl 9 Death Hand.

  • ethionethion Member UncommonPosts: 2,888
    Originally posted by paulrgod

    Originally posted by ethion


    I'm still a noob and I'm sure it will show.  I've played a few hours.  I am playing on the pve server.
    I'm trying to figure out why people think the combat system is good...
    1. I've read about the skill deck and while it is a nice idea and building the best sequence is fun I'm not sure that makes the combat system good.  In the end don't you end up just clicking one button mindlessly to fight?
    At Lower levels it might just seem a little mindless click fest but as you learn new skills, expand the skilldeck, learn combo openers and finishers it all becomes a lot more complex.  You have to understand how skills interact, how combos are formed etc.  Theres also the states system to think about - physique, morale and concentration (the 3 coloured bars below your HP.) also tied to the PeP system (levels in Pep will increase your states).
    Yellow - Physique - Movement Speed
    Purple - Morale - Damage Output
    Green - Concentration - Skill Deck rotation speed
    These can be reduced by your enemies and buffed by your own skills, the key to these is to build a skilldeck that allows you to increase these making you faster and stronger in battle, while being aware that your enemies are also trying to (and will) reduce them.


    2. Dodging, I'm not sure what people are doing to dodge.  I tried jousting with mobs but found that they could attack me from quite a distance although it is hard to really be precise in the animations and attack damage are not totally in sync.  
    Mindless dodging will get you no-where fast, you have to anticipate the monsters attacks with the animations and sounds they make.   If the attacks seem out of sync are you having lag issues?
    3. I also tried straffing and that didn't work much better.  The speed of turning with my straffing isn't much different so I don't find straffing to be very effective.
    Movement speed is directly associated with your Physique State.  To enable quicker movement speed, dodging ability etc, you need to buff your physique. You'll find some skills you have may increase this during combat.
    4. I did find however I can run thorugh the mob getting behind it wait while it turns then back up through it and take a free attack.  This seems like an exploit as the mobs get all jerky when you do this kinda skittering around a bit.   Using this technique I can take almost no damage.
    To stop this mobs inflict a critical hit on you if you run through them, this is not really noticable to begin with but later on, really hurts.
    However none of this running around stuff really seems interesting it just makes doing combat more difficult....
    When you understand the combat systems i have touched upon above, combat becomes a lot more interesting, it isnt just run around waving your sword around and casting a few spells, its thoughtful and calculated when you understand it all.
    I'm supposing at higher levels you can have multiple skill decks so you might have one for normal fighting, one for groups, maybe one for defensive, one for some special type of encounter?
    There's no way to save different 'builds' atm but i would like to see it implemented at some point as i'm always changing my skilldeck around.
    Do you switch around a lot at higher levels or during a fight pretty much stick with one primary skill deck?
    You will always be tweaking it, it will become an obsession.
    Right now other then messing with skill decks which is interesting, combat seems to be hitting one button and figuring out how to move to exploit the game creatures inability to attack you due to bad AI/Game design??
    See my answers above.
    Just to touch on the AI in the game, this game has some of the most impressive AI ever seen in an MMO, especially apparent in groups of humans, you'll see mages staying behind the ranks, the warriors defending them etc.  And the AI will actually Kite humans, i've seen many falling for it....impressive stuff.
    what am I missing?  BTW I'm playing a rogue.
    I dont think your missing anything, i just dont think you've read up on the combat system and dont fully understand all the layers of it yet. But thats to be expected at such lower levels it's not instantly apparent.
    I'm a Wrathguard (warrior) so am unable to offer any advice on Rogue classes but they've been fun to fight against :)
    Hope my Answers help you better understand and enjoy the game a little more.
    Cheers
    Paul
     

     

    Thanks for the detailed response!! 

    As I said I'm a noob and these are my initial thoughts.  I'll give the game a good 2 week run since it's free and form more solid opinions as I figure things out.

    One more question that I think wasn't clear because I don't have the terms down

    When I speak of skill deck I'm revering to one column of skills you put in the wheel.  So I think you can have a max of 5 different sequences of skills you can pick from by mousing up and down.  I understand how coming up with a sequence on the wheel will be important. 

    What I'm interested in however is about the interaction of these sequence between themselves.  That what I ment when I was refering to different decks.  To me that was one of the 5-6 sequences you cant setup.  So by default in the game you start with 2 decks (using my term for clarity), one that is melee and one that is ranged.  I pull with my ranged one then switch to melee.  When I have more skills I can imagine having more melee sets, ie one that is oriented on offence maybe trying to cripple a particular attribute, or one that is more defensive trying to keep me alive, maybe one that builds a certain attribute that is important to me stuff like that.  Perhaps one that is geared up for groups.  

    So my question is at higher levels do you take this approach where when you fight you decide ok this is gonna be an offensive fight lets pick that skill deck sequence and then go at it.  Or do you typically have multiples that you switch between in the fight? 

     

    ---
    Ethion

  • paulrgodpaulrgod Member UncommonPosts: 240

    Well usage of the skilldeck expands as you go through the levels, it expands both horizontally and extra tiers.

    When building the deck you have to consider lots of options - i always have my 5th column set up to use ranged attacks.

    But you've also got to taken into account colldown timers and combo starters finishers etc. You dont want to get into a situation where all skills on a row are in cooldown or will break your combo :)

    Remember you can only select a skill from the row your currently on, you cannot rotate the deck manually.

    My deck consists of useful skills on each row, but i also have 2 8 hit combo's planned in the deck for devestating effect.

    Bar the starters and finishers i've got flexibility to mix em up a little for different situations and effects.  And i've still to unlock the last 2 rows, which will give me even more options :)

    Hope this helps a bit!

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