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Darkfall: Etiquette Tips
Stradden
Managing EditorMember CommonPosts: 6,696
MMORPG.com Darkfall Correspondent Kelly Price writes this helful guide to the sometimes bizarre etiquette of the brutal sandbox PvP MMO, Darkfall Online
Well here we are again, folks, at the precipice of a new and exciting cliff known as Darkfall Online. But this cliff is a lot steeper and much scarier than previous ones we've encountered, not to mention the fact that you cannot see the end at all. This game is very different from any other MMO out there, which means new rules and new a new skill set for player survival. And so, before the vast multitudes of stampeding noobs take the plunge, I would like to take some time to talk about etiquette in the world of Agon.
;)
Read Etiquette Tips
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
Comments
I take it you solo and are a bit antisocial. That is ok, you can play the game anyway you want. But it might be helpful to start making some friends. Friends in this game are far more important than in others. People will not attack a group as readily as a single individual.
about right....as it should be in a real mmorpg.
This is less etiquette tips.
And more common sense on how not to get griefed.
Don't forget the #1 rule of etiquette for DFO: don't ever say anything negative about Tasos, Aventurine or DFO. Don't point out the bugs or false promises, don't even post constructive criticism like the leaders of the largest guilds did in an honest effort to make the game better not too long ago. Tasos' response is basically "screw you", so why bother.
Every post I've seen that Tasos has made to date has been rude, condescending, belligerent, even spiteful... how can you expect the player base, or the forum fanbois who are drawn to it, to be any different. Come on, seriously.
Darkfall is the best thing to happen to the MMO industry as far as I'm concerned. Now whenever I run into some mouthy tool who thinks he's the god of PvP I tell him about Darkfall Online and how I think he'd LOVE the game. It's a win-win for everyone!
Darkfall gets more players to gank and backstab each other to their hearts' content and the rest of the MMOs get cleaned out of all the garbage we don't want clogging our chat windows with stupidity ("pwned!!!!!!11!1!1! u suxors!") and unfounded arrogance (because obviously if you're not using THEIR strategy, you must be doing it wrong despite the fact you're alive and they're dead).
May DFO grow, succeed and prosper, I say! And in the mean time, send more fodder over to them from the rest of the MMOs out there.
Everybody's happy. Everybody wins.
In fairness I should probably state that I know not everybody in DFO is a tool. I've seen some well written and constructive comments on several forums from some of these folks... some even helpful (dare I say carebear?) to others in the community.
HOWEVER, the game is heavily geared toward the overly competitive, arrogant, self important, snide and usually mouthy punks that we find in any PvP environment. I have no problem sending the ones I come across over to DFO to either get schooled and shown they are NOT as good as they think they are, or to rule over the others who thought they were so great. Let's face it, the game has always been about smack talking, backstabbing, ambushing and ganking. A tool's paradise.
I have no problem with having skills (got a few of my own), but I can't stomach jackholes who talk a big game. They aren't big enough to be bullies in real life so they flex their virtual muscles to make themselves feel better about their own insignificant lives. When I kill someone I bow or salute instead of laugh, dance on the corpse, slap, or taunt the person I killed. Honor is clearly not a part of DFO on any level, from gameplay to design to even simple dev posts and announcements.
To each their own I guess.
I *AM* sincere in wanting DFO to succeed, as I said. As long as the game is alive, I'll keep sending people over.
Wow, I just can't imagine playing in a world like this and it being fun. I hope that other games of a sandbox nature come along that do not have this kind of PvP playstyle.
Not possible. If you can do whatever you want then there will be scumbags.
Good, nice refreshing change.
Not everyone is the Little Bo Peep Everquest old timer who cant take a licking, there's plenty of games for you guys.
aka: World of Warcraft
Good luck with it
condescending, maybe, the rest, no. i think your average gamer is so used to being fed a bunch of bullshit they feel affronted by simple, straightforward honesty from a developer.
condescending, maybe, the rest, no. i think your average gamer is so used to being fed a bunch of bullshit they feel affronted by simple, straightforward honesty from a developer.
Oh give me a break, Tasos can't even construe what straightforward honesty means, let alone attempt to communicate it.
The man is clearly all about deceit. His ability to skirt the truth is just amazing. And if you can't grasp the arrogant tone he exudes you are wearing blinders.
condescending, maybe, the rest, no. i think your average gamer is so used to being fed a bunch of bullshit they feel affronted by simple, straightforward honesty from a developer.
Oh give me a break, Tasos can't even construe what straightforward honesty means, let alone attempt to communicate it.
The man is clearly all about deceit. His ability to skirt the truth is just amazing. And if you can't grasp the arrogant tone he exudes you are wearing blinders.
Don't bother with Javac or whoever clowns who must pull WoW in for any discussions involving games. They must have some innate insecurity about a game others play.
As for the OP's argument, there is a flaw. If there are people who care to work long term relations and band together, like UO, yes OP's mentality might work. That is during the UO days, when UO is about the only game on earth, when EQ was not available. People need to band together, because they know they want to be online again tomorrow and have something to do. Being a rascal in UO = no more games, except staying as a rascal.
DFO does not attract those long term gamers. Those who goes to DFO look for instant big time. They gank, steal loot whatever they are not allowed to do in other MMOs and very few gives a damn about tomorrow. Fact is, DFO might not have much of a tomorrow, so many DFOers just pillage and rampage till the game dies.
Mr OP, you can try to be civil, but the animals around you won't. Imagine bringing your ideas to practice inside the tiger and lion cage of a zoo. They will eat you. To survive in DFO, just kill the other side no matter what. That explains all those cheaters and hackers. That reminds of me b.net during Diablo I days. Who is the other side you must kill? Practically everyone can be, and you never know who will kill you. At the end of a group tour, the group leader announces a 2 minute afk for everyone to go bio. Then he ambushes and kills all other members and loot/leave. That is the mentality of DFO.
I dont not think anyone would write about the DF etiquette here in MMORPG.com.
Why is it so hard for some to understand the PvP side of DF. Its like a Football tournamernt or something, or as in every other game example Monopoly! You will loose some and win some.
Hope this article will inform some people what kind of game DF is. If you are not prepared to win and loose, DF is not for you.
My text here under my join date is actually not a joke. It was a label that the DF community thought DF should have. Well....its kinda a joke.....noone would understand it at first. But now its slowly gaining "momentum" : )
Since you seems so civil, I risk dropping a reply. Its your kind of mentality that keeps me off the game, not wining or losing. You need to call ppl carebear to start talking, kinda means you are not fit for my idea of a community. We play chess everyday back then, always someone losing, but there is no need to call someone names.
If you do not understand why ppl shun your kind, and leave these little niche games to you, if you still want to dream on feeling that you are great b/c you own the game and few cares to join you, go ahead. The ffa pvp community has degenerated into name calling and self delusive grandeur. Feeling great or achievement in a digital game? Indeed that must be quite an achievement.
Enough said.
You happily lay out a nightmare scenario of a game where ganking is the norm, "oh...those silly gankers.... with their foul, potty mouths and obscene names....darn them), then purport that their is some kind of Rules Of The Road in this teen-boy mess. I'll leave this game to the hateful kiddies,and those who are older....with the minds of children.
I sing the songs that make the young girls cry.
Perhaps one thing that didn't come through from the article is that DF is basically a guild (clan) game if you want to see all its depth and enjoy it.
So, my main piece of etiquette would be: "Only trust your guildies" (ones you know that is
)
Other people and clans can and will betray you in the heat of battle/siege. You truly are never safe. And I mean: never.
It is excellent and has the kind of edge which will really appeal to older players like me who are bit tired of themeparks and itemcentric games.
All games attract BS from non-players or people who tried it and didn't like it. And I would bet that DF will attract even more BS because it does step out of the trend MMOs have been going in and anything that sticks its neck out will get swung at.
Massively has an article up atm about how much fun Gank group v Gank group engagement was. That is DF's bread and butter. If you are in a major warzone (and my guild and I are all the time), it is non-stop. Continuous ebb and flow of attack and counter-attack between PvP groups from 2 people to 200. You can't craft in peace, you can't harvest in peace. You can't even afk for 5 mins assuming you will not be looted and dead when you come back. But, trust me, balancing risks and playing clever means that you can really do well in this extremely harsh environment and have serious fun doing it.
If you have a close guild/group fo friends. If you want some 'edge' and are happy to learn from losses as well as enjoy successes. If you are able to be smart and not have your hand held in games - then DF maybe a game for you that is worth trying.
It feels like it did when I first came to online gaming
Its something I've sort of suspected, and reading this thread really started to crystalize it for me, and your post really drove the point home.
Despite what the Devs/fans have long said, DF is more a game about what you can't do, and not what you can. As long as you want to play the game the way you and the others do, with non-stop warfare at all times, then you are golden, DF is for you.
But if you want a true sandbox environment/world where all paths are possible, I don't see DF really being that game afte rall.
In fact, it seems DF is a better game at total war, than, well, WAR. Nothing wrong with that, as long as the user understands what sort of world they are joining.
It really is a place where your only friends are in your clan, and everyone, absolutely everyone should be treated as an enemy and not trusted. I've played games like that before, (and EVE is somewhat like that now) and it certainly requires players to understand the 'etiquette' of the game.
(though using the word etiquette with DF seems to be an oxymoron, rules of engagment seems more appropriate)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I never trust anyone, and If someone is foolish enough to trust me gets his gear stolen
wow....listen to all the people who have never played the game telling us all how it is.
None of you have any idea, yet you vent off at the mouth like you are some veteran player.
All you have is assumptions, based on the rantings of the biased trolls that infest this place.
What is Darkfall?? It is a simulated medieval world. All of the behavior that you would expect in a barbaric, primitive world is here.
It is not a magical phantasy world with marshmellows and rainbows. It is a barbaric environment. Yeah, you have some rampant PKs (Reds), but in any environment where people are allowed this degree of freedom, you are bound to have criminals. This doesn't mean that the whole populatin is like this, and it doesn't mean that you are getting killed every ten minutes....IF YOU ARE SMART.
I personally havn't died in a couple days now, and I sure as hell never have problems crafting in peace. I keep my eyes out when harvesting, traveling, farming mobs, etc, and I never turn my back on anyone. I never let myself get to low health or stamina...in short, be alert, and never let my guard down. Never present a position of weakness. I bank my stuff often, so that when I DO get killed, I don't lose much, and nothing I can't easily replace.
in Darkfall, you are expected to either adapt to the brutal environment, or leave. Whining is not tolerated.
Just look at this thread, and most others that pertain to this game on this site. What you see is a bunch of people whining at the very THOUGHT of a game that they've never even played.
And I'm sure that some of them are going to respond telling me that I'm "mean", or "insulting", etc. That's ok, it just re-enforces my point. They are thin-skinned and over-sensitive...and the very THOUGHT of playing in a "risk vs reward" atmosphere makes them take to the forums in....herds.
I suppose some people stay in the safer zones too. No game has total war everywhere, and I'm sure its avoidable like you've been doing as well.
But you are telling us stuff that most of us already know, right?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I suppose some people stay in the safer zones too. No game has total war everywhere, and I'm sure its avoidable like you've been doing as well.
But you are telling us stuff that most of us already know, right?
Pfft. I don't stay in the "safe" zones, I just keep my eyes open. It's really no different than being in a low-income area of a city in the late hours of the night. Use your head, and your fine.
As Kyleran has said we all know this, after all, ffa pvp is not new to us. Its actually the first major MMO ever UO. So we do not need to play it in order to understand it or talk about it. Many of us have been thru this 10 years+ ago.
Now that we know what DF is, and what DF is not, many of us choose not to play it, or in your word, leave it alone. We will talk about it casually, as a game of its sort, and what strength and weakness it will bring to the table. This is not whining, this is what this board is about.
Very well spotted Kyleran.
For me, the core of a sandbox game is about adding new and expanding existing content and giving people as many occupational options as possible (aka. game content). This is something that CCP has grasped fairly well, as they often add completely new content to their game with their expansions. The major trick is, that the new content in little to no way effect the possibility and enjoyment of already existing content. This is contrary to the way expansions in WoW dramatically decrease the value of old content when new is added.
Though, even in EVE we have many players who in their mindlessness believe that the way to go for balancing and "expanding" the game is through limitation and removal of content, especially when it is content they themselves do not dabble with, but somehow still feel give others an "unfair" advantage. Luckily CCP has a broader perspective than that.
In the case of Darkfall I simply do not see any possible playstyle outside of bashing in other peoples head, as fun as that might be. There might be a little game content not directly related to combat PvP, but the FFA combat aspect simply overrule everything else. That is not sandbox at all to me.
Very well spotted Kyleran.
For me, the core of a sandbox game is about adding new and expanding existing content and giving people as many occupational options as possible (aka. game content). This is something that CCP has grasped fairly well, as they often add completely new content to their game with their expansions. The major trick is, that the new content in little to no way effect the possibility and enjoyment of already existing content. This is contrary to the way expansions in WoW dramatically decrease the value of old content when new is added.
Though, even in EVE we have many players who in their mindlessness believe that the way to go for balancing and "expanding" the game is through limitation and removal of content, especially when it is content they themselves do not dabble with, but somehow still feel give others an "unfair" advantage. Luckily CCP has a broader perspective than that.
In the case of Darkfall I simply do not see any possible playstyle outside of bashing in other peoples head, as fun as that might be. There might be a little game content not directly related to combat PvP, but the FFA combat aspect simply overrule everything else. That is not sandbox at all to me.
In a broader sense, a direct extension of kyleran's observation, DF is more a game about who won't care for, than a game who will be attracted to. Those players who do not want nasty communities, cheap talks and self imposed "heroes" will simply turn away. Even the few unwary who stumbled upon it will flee very shortly. DF is not a game about attracting, but about turning away. Only those who took pride in being the nasty and behaving nasty will temporarily take refuge there, trying to wave a flag and feel big b/c for a while they feel they own a game to their own.
For the average rest, you cannot trust no one, not even your guildies, you can only trust those you would trust in RL. Why do I need to play an online game with people I know and trust online? and only them. I could meet them in the bar or central park, or bbq with them in my backyard.
For the average players, DF is a game in which you cannot do whatever you want to do, unless you got solid escort, and are free from ambushes and .... If it takes so much effort just to do the mundane things, its frustrating for most. Its a game, I wonder how many want to be turtored in a game to feel achievements? And what achievements? Just a pixel in an online game? For the same efforts in work I can get so much more. Do I want to go thru the same torture again after hours?
For the average players, you cannot just about play anything without the consent of the community. So you are at the whim of the community. In Eve, there is at least a reasonably coherent community to keep some form of games possible. In DF, you know who the players are, I need not say it again. You have to pay me twice my salary to keep me associated with them. For my fat salary, I can still choose to work with ppl miles ahead of the DF community, and I got paid.
Its like many nasty ffa pvp games. Unregulated ones. At the end of the day, there are just so many nasty guys willing to camp an empty zone and/or pk each other.
Hence why I despise it. If AV wanted to create an environment for all the people who want to be e-baddasses in a virtual world, then they've surely succeeded. When it comes to creating an actual game that brings entertainment(And not the kind that borders on masochism) and depth, then they've missed the mark by miles.
The rules of Debate are really simple; once you have to stoop to insults instead of facts, logic, or reason to try and win your argument, you've lost.
...
In the case of Darkfall I simply do not see any possible playstyle outside of bashing in other peoples head, as fun as that might be. There might be a little game content not directly related to combat PvP, but the FFA combat aspect simply overrule everything else. That is not sandbox at all to me.
This part is worth some discussion.
When the list of features of DF were first announced, the game is much more than that, well it seems. DF was marketed as a game with PVP and PVE, and allowing full loot ffa pvp. This about makes it simialr in style to a ffa pvp EQ server, with the game mechanics designed with a view to pleasing pvp more.
Now that DF is released, they have only implemented a rudimentary ffa pvp with full loot. They even have to remove en masse, the npcs, to allow enough free handles for a few thousand players. What that amounts to is, they basically release an empty box in which everyone has a stick and bash each other. Everything else is so trivial that the focus is perma-pvp.
If the game has a viable and survivable core of pve activities, some pvers will start working on those content and might integrate with the pvp community. Say SWG type of crafting, or whatever that floats the boat. A safe house in the wilderness, free from reckless pvper, will begin a totally different sting of activities. You can camp my house all you want, but if I can do some decent gaming inside my house, say weapon research and crafting, then pve exist, however primitive.
But no. AV has so little core developed, that the only core released is pvp. No one can do anything and there is nothing else you can do, unless pvp allows it. The contribution from the pve side is so marginal that the pvpers will no bother respect the pvers, and when the more modest gamers left the game, or never bother sub, all we have left is a community of players whose only activities is bashing each other non stop. Which, to me, is worse form of gaming than street fighter.
In a way, DF is just a street fighter game, with a bigger map, equally empty, but lacking the fluid flow of action of street fighter. And street fighter is 20 years old already.
Hence why I despise it. If AV wanted to create an environment for all the people who want to be e-baddasses in a virtual world, then they've surely succeeded. When it comes to creating an actual game that brings entertainment(And not the kind that borders on masochism) and depth, then they've missed the mark by miles.
That is why kyleran says, DF is a game about what you cannot do.
That is why I extend kyleran's word into, DF is a game about who won't want to try it out. Anyone seeking any form of entertainment other than going out nake and bashing each other silly with starter club, will go look for another game.
Can't say I despise it, but i will not take it as a job, meaning, even if I am paid twice my current salary (which is fat), I still won't play it. The DF community is much worse than the bad "clients" i run into in my daily business hours.