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High Risk, High Reward MMO?
Najda
Member Posts: 2
What MMO's out there have a high risk vs high reward PVP system? I used to play Runescape until all the risk/reward was removed from the PvP in 2007 and am looking for a similar style PvP (Dueling/PvP areas).
Comments
None. People just run around naked to reduce all the risk. See Darkfall. And they got that strategy from original UO 10 years ago=) Even in Eve, many fly the cheapest ships in the greatest numbers to reduce any real risk.
Yep, every game I ever seen, people just work around the system.
There are plenty of evidence that people are risk averse.
You make a game high risks (does not matter high reward or not), then people will take to do nothing.
The CORRECT way to design a game is to have small penalties so that people will try different things. The reason why WOW works so well is that people are not afraid to go wipe after wipe just to learn the fights.
Eve Online is the first game I think of when I hear "risk vs. reward".
Eve, FFXI, Spellborn to a lesser degree
The design flaw is allowing people to reap rewards without risk.
In PVE, you have to level and improve stats and armor to successfully defeat tougher mobs with better rewards. Risk should always be a significant experience penalty which is a direct hit against your level and correlates well.
The problem with PVP is that individual skill in most cases determines who will win so tactics like naked fighting are utilized to remove risk. PVP should have level or skill range limits which would only allow players within the same level/skill range to engage each other which then forces players to invest time building and training their characters instead of just running around naked. Also, players with better armor should have a significant advantage in defense to make it virtually impossible for a naked player to overcome before being struck down. It's unrealistic otherwise. It's simply a matter of design but too many PvP designers think PvP should be fully open and 100% skill based which allows exploits.
Well for instance in runescape, when you died you lost everything you had with you at the time, but if you killed the other person you would get everything they had on them. What I'm more interested in is dueling with stakes though, like "I bet XX money I can beat you" kind of thing, but built into the game so the honor system isn't required.
Most MMOs have minimized the risks to PvP. Darkfall and UO are the only ones I know of where significant risk in PvP still occurs
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)
EVE Online
Lineage 2
Puzzle Pirates
Pirates of the Burning Sea
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
The only one i can speak for is EvE and it is a game where you can pretty much choose the level of risk you wish to play at. You can choose from flying cheap ships in high security space with full insurance and up to date clones which is virtually zero risk right the way down to flying your most expensive ship in zero security space with no insurance or clone which means the chance of losing almost everything if you lose a fight.
Been a while since i played, but the bounty system they had in place gave an objective risk vs reward system to work from if you decide to go down that route, but you can be pretty certain that those with a bounty won't be easy to take down
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
I've known people who will duel for money in WoW. If that's what you want to do then just do it, don't wait for some game to be designed around your whims.
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Let players choose their risk. ANY low risk game like WOW for example can be instantly turned to high risk. As a player who seeks this sort of play, you have plenty of tools at your disposal. So put up or shut up. Stop asking developers to purposely reduce the number of potential players when YOU, as a high risk person, can add all the risk you can imagine.
Drop gear. Drop Gold. Step away from the keyboard for an hour. Delete your character. Plenty of risk to go around. If you need the game to force it on you, then you're in fact NOT a person who wants to take risks. You need the game to hand hold you through those risks or shove it down your throat. True risk takers look for it. They don't wait for it to come to them.
Sound about right e-tough guys=)
Thats why most of ppls there just rush without any idea what they are doing. Just pissed off from ppls loosing my time...
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration
______\m/_____
LordOfDarkDesire
Why troll?
You know in Eve you still lose everything, and even a t1 ship fully fit with named and t2 fits could run 50 million + easy.
Also basic ship loss isnt the onlt risk in eve....... Just ask the guys in BoB.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
People don't work this way. most people will look for the least resistance when trying to achieve a certain goal.
Look what happend to UO, Once the devs put out Trammel everyone and their mom left so they wouldnt actually have to be bothered during macro and gear farming sessions.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
I've known people who will duel for money in WoW. If that's what you want to do then just do it, don't wait for some game to be designed around your whims.
I recall one 'duel' set up in EVE between two people who worked in the same office and played EVE.
They made an $800.00 USD bet that one could beat the other in a fight, and the loser actually paid when it was over.
They had over 100 spectators from both corporations watching to make sure the fight was fair and no one interferred.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The guild I'm in would often get adrenaline rushes from a 5 man party doing Moloch runs in Hellgate. Again, that's in hardcore mode. Nothing gets your blood pumping more than the risk of loosing your level 50 toon, all your money and all your stored Legendary and Unique items. But when we died, we had fun of getting back up to 50 again.
I guess we were all adrenaline junkies. Fun times ^_^
People don't work this way. most people will look for the least resistance when trying to achieve a certain goal.
Look what happend to UO, Once the devs put out Trammel everyone and their mom left so they wouldnt actually have to be bothered during macro and gear farming sessions.
No, people don't work that way. Thats why I called people out on it. Theres a certain subset of MMO gamers that want all this risk, yet they avoid it at all costs. They want risk for OTHERS!!! They want to force the risk on others. Not themselves. If it was just about them, they wouldn't need to ask for the risk, because like I said, its all there for the taking if you REALLY want it. Its called being a hypocrite and forums are LOADED with them.
Like UO showed there really isn't ny sort of significan't portion of players that want risk. Thats why everyone fled to Trammel. If the risk was fun, people would've stayed, but they didn't. It was proven 10 years ago and its human nature. Thats not to say that there are some people out there who need it. They're there. Just not enough to build a whole MMO around it.
Yes, Eve has a lot of risk, IF you choose it. There are ways to reduce it though, but it still comes to time. Hell, if you're willing to buy ISK, theres no risk at all. Lose a ship? Big deal. Buy another. Since your character doesn't lose skill training, wheres the risk.
People don't work this way. most people will look for the least resistance when trying to achieve a certain goal.
Look what happend to UO, Once the devs put out Trammel everyone and their mom left so they wouldnt actually have to be bothered during macro and gear farming sessions.
No, people don't work that way. Thats why I called people out on it. Theres a certain subset of MMO gamers that want all this risk, yet they avoid it at all costs. They want risk for OTHERS!!! They want to force the risk on others. Not themselves. If it was just about them, they wouldn't need to ask for the risk, because like I said, its all there for the taking if you REALLY want it. Its called being a hypocrite and forums are LOADED with them.
Like UO showed there really isn't ny sort of significan't portion of players that want risk. Thats why everyone fled to Trammel. If the risk was fun, people would've stayed, but they didn't. It was proven 10 years ago and its human nature. Thats not to say that there are some people out there who need it. They're there. Just not enough to build a whole MMO around it.
Yes, Eve has a lot of risk, IF you choose it. There are ways to reduce it though, but it still comes to time. Hell, if you're willing to buy ISK, theres no risk at all. Lose a ship? Big deal. Buy another. Since your character doesn't lose skill training, wheres the risk.
I enjoy risk in MMO because it makes the little things in game seem meaningful.
Its a challenge to play a game that at anytime I could lose everything, I understand most people don't enjoy that.
I think your wrong to say not enough people enjoy high risk to build a MMO around them.
Ill agree a MMO like UO or Eve will never reach mainstream status like WoW, i still think games like Darkfall, Earthrise, Mortal online and Fallen earth will have a decent sized community with a handful of servers that are active for a long time.
For me thats enough.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
I still firmly believe that Meridian 59 still has the highest risk reward of any MMORPG.
I have not seen the info Mortal or Fallen Earth website yet but I can guarantee you that Earthrise will have a pretty big population if it is good game.Why? Earthrise has insurance and safe zones.It has the harsh aspect of full looting with protect for new comers.The middle ground between Wow and Darkfall.Eve has the same aspects but playing eve at some points is as boring as watching a blank wall.