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Eve devs not the only cheats
Lordmonkus
Member Posts: 808
in EVE Online
Looks like WoW devs or gms have been caught giving unfair advantage. www.wowinsider.com/2009/04/29/player-receives-developer-item-in-the-mail-one-shots-ulduar/
Finally it comes to light that this happens in other games and Eves cheating was not a one off in the MMO industry. Maybe now people realize this happens ALOT in every game. It's just if it is caught and how much exposure the incident gets.
Comments
While I normally don't give a crap what developers do.
I find this kind of funny.
Thanks for the link.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
Yeah normally I wouldn't post something like this but because of all the heat CCP got and still does over a dev cheating I thought this was appropriate.
Ehhh the WoW devs have always shown favoritism toward the large bleeding edge raid guilds.
I always found it funny that noone ever gave a crap that the top guilds all got to practice Blizzards raid content during special closed Betas so they had an advantage over normal guilds when the content finally released.
But devs giving guilds a hand is ok in WoW right? lol.... this is why I never cared about the CCP news when shit like that went down it happens in every game.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
It doesn't matter in WoW for two reasons:
EVE is one world, WoW is not.
EVE is PVP focused, WoW is not.
Some guild finishing a raid first or getting better gear has little effect on the game as a whole. I do understand how some egos might be bruised, but who cares?
WoW is an achievement based game, you are rewarded based on your achievements, not anyone elses.
Did you play WoW? those bleeding edge guilds were like rock stars to the WoW community.
Of course it mattered.
Competition to get that first boss kill is fierce and while It may not be pvp focused that means something to those players.... or atleast used to before LOL arenas.
Edit: anyway it doesnt really matter, a Dev cheating is a Dev cheating Pve or pvp game devs need to chill with giving guilds advantages
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
Well EvE devs have bigger testicals cause they finally onwed up to there boo-boo and said it was there game and would run it how they saw fit. May not have been right but took balls to say so.
MAGA
Actually it's a much bigger deal in WoW. The bleeding edge progression guilds are sponsored to play so there is real world money to be made. What if a top competition arena team some dev/gm help ? They win money and prizes for that.
I am not trying to say this makes what CCP did right, I am only saying that CCP is not the only company that has, does have or ever will have the problem of a cheating dev or gm.
Meh, its nothing new, and I'm sure every game has suffered from it at one time or another.
Fortunately for me, I've not really been impacted by such actions, but I imagine those who were (like those trying to be first through raids and stuff) would be pretty upset.
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Actually it's a much bigger deal in WoW. The bleeding edge progression guilds are sponsored to play so there is real world money to be made. What if a top competition arena team some dev/gm help ? They win money and prizes for that.
I am not trying to say this makes what CCP did right, I am only saying that CCP is not the only company that has, does have or ever will have the problem of a cheating dev or gm.
Well say they did an internal investigation and the person who did this (and they were sure it wasn't a mistake somehow) had worked for CCP before they worked for Blizzard...
(yes that's my odd sense of humor)
Before I joined the UO Interest Team I had been a "smurf". I remember meeting this really nice GM on our IRC chat one day by the name of: GM Darwin.
GM Darwin was later fired for using GM tools to place houses and sell them on ebay...
So yes things happen regardless of company and its not always lending "assistance" to a player.
Interesting. Thanks for posting the link. Though I can see where competitive WoW players would be annoyed, especially if real money were won, I think the cheating in EvE is worse. Cheating in EvE affects everyone. In the case of the t20 scandal, this was at a time when T2 technology was only available through a certain amount of seeded bpo's. T20 giving them to his alliance unfairly meant that he was depriving someone else of acquiring these bpo's legitimately through the lottery. Considering that people can make losses in EvE that took years to build up, to me it makes a huge difference that CCP cheated as opposed to Blizz. That's not to say that Blizz should be abllowed to cheat, I'm not excusing them at all. THey should have an internal investigation too and hopefully fire the dev in question rather than do what CCP did was to slap t20 on the wrist and let him keep his job.
Back in EvE. Started with BatMUD. Main MMOs have been EvE and DAoC.
Yea i kind of agree, its a shame that Icelands employment laws wouldnt allow him to be fired.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
The decision to fire or not fire would be up to CCP. I would also imagine like most decent workplaces if T20 had a clean record of employment then it wouldn't be proper to fire him, people do deserve second chances. Remove his GM roles obviously but move him to another division in the company. Now of course if he had a previous track record of problems then by all means fire his ass.
With all due respect I dont see how this incident in Blizzard/WOW barely compares to what happened with CCP/Eve. What happened in WOW is obviously an accident. The guild this character that cheated was in was not some "Bleeding Edge" raid guild by all accounts based on the WOWInsider article. The guild did not have the gear or raid experience of any of the top raiding guilds in WOW. Obviously some clerk at Blizz sent him the wrong item/code and this player decided to take it upon himself and abuse this mistake instead of reporting it to a GM.
As it has already been stated, the effects cheating of this kind would have in WOW in no way compares to a full-on PVP game like EVE. One guilds accomplishments DOES NOT take away from another guild. In EVE when one Corp has a definitive advantage over another Corp they can do alot of harm to that corp and the economy as a whole. Also the whole "ONE" shard world of EVE compounds this issue making cheating an even bigger deal since it can affect everyone in the entire game, not just a server that is one of many.
Sorry, but EVEs cheating scandal still stands on its on and another games mistake does not deter from that fact. There is simply too much to lose in EVE including years of hardwork and training. This is not the case in WOW where a decently organized raid guild can blow thru content in a matter of months. As you can see I play both games and have experienced both worlds.
Current Games: WOW, EVE Online
With all due respect I dont see how this incident in Blizzard/WOW barely compares to what happened with CCP/Eve. What happened in WOW is obviously an accident. The guild this character that cheated was in was not some "Bleeding Edge" raid guild by all accounts based on the WOWInsider article. The guild did not have the gear or raid experience of any of the top raiding guilds in WOW. Obviously some clerk at Blizz sent him the wrong item/code and this player decided to take it upon himself and abuse this mistake instead of reporting it to a GM.
As it has already been stated, the effects cheating of this kind would have in WOW in no way compares to a full-on PVP game like EVE. One guilds accomplishments DOES NOT take away from another guild. In EVE when one Corp has a definitive advantage over another Corp they can do alot of harm to that corp and the economy as a whole. Also the whole "ONE" shard world of EVE compounds this issue making cheating an even bigger deal since it can affect everyone in the entire game, not just a server that is one of many.
Sorry, but EVEs cheating scandal still stands on its on and another games mistake does not deter from that fact. There is simply too much to lose in EVE including years of hardwork and training. This is not the case in WOW where a decently organized raid guild can blow thru content in a matter of months. As you can see I play both games and have experienced both worlds.
Oh clearly an accident, it's so obvious. Ok man whatever you wanna think.
Yes the specific Eve incident was more of an impact on the game world than WoWs incident. But WoWs incident did effect more than one single player. It had an effect on his entire guild getting loot they would normally would not have.
Either way the simple fact remains dev cheating happens in every game and no one cheat is worse than the other. They are all equally bad. There is nothing we can do about it except punish those caught doing it or not play online games at all because there is cheating in every online game whether you notice it or not it is there.
Given the history of this topic on these forums I was surprised when this thread didn't take off, and I am still amazed it hasn't turned into a massive flame war.
As for what happened in EVE, I think people overlook CCP's humble beginnings and how hard they had to work to make EVE a unique and profitable game. That being the case, I've never really seen this issue as major. If it had changed the development of the game in a major way or if the game had failed, it would have been different, then I would have thought the company was weak and the incident was just a sign of things to come.
Now I just see a mistake that came from struggling to be different and successful. As for WOW it was just a mistake too, one that probably resulted from difficulties in policing such a large game.
Dude WoW posters don't really come to the eve forums.
This is the one MMO forum were WoW players have no ground to stand on when they say Wow is a superior game.
Everyone knows how good Eve is even if they dont like the setting or CCPs choice of Rts hybrid combat.
If this was posted in the WoW forums it would be 200+ posts large.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
With all due respect I dont see how this incident in Blizzard/WOW barely compares to what happened with CCP/Eve. What happened in WOW is obviously an accident. The guild this character that cheated was in was not some "Bleeding Edge" raid guild by all accounts based on the WOWInsider article. The guild did not have the gear or raid experience of any of the top raiding guilds in WOW. Obviously some clerk at Blizz sent him the wrong item/code and this player decided to take it upon himself and abuse this mistake instead of reporting it to a GM.
As it has already been stated, the effects cheating of this kind would have in WOW in no way compares to a full-on PVP game like EVE. One guilds accomplishments DOES NOT take away from another guild. In EVE when one Corp has a definitive advantage over another Corp they can do alot of harm to that corp and the economy as a whole. Also the whole "ONE" shard world of EVE compounds this issue making cheating an even bigger deal since it can affect everyone in the entire game, not just a server that is one of many.
Sorry, but EVEs cheating scandal still stands on its on and another games mistake does not deter from that fact. There is simply too much to lose in EVE including years of hardwork and training. This is not the case in WOW where a decently organized raid guild can blow thru content in a matter of months. As you can see I play both games and have experienced both worlds.
Oh clearly an accident, it's so obvious. Ok man whatever you wanna think.
Yes the specific Eve incident was more of an impact on the game world than WoWs incident. But WoWs incident did effect more than one single player. It had an effect on his entire guild getting loot they would normally would not have.
Either way the simple fact remains dev cheating happens in every game and no one cheat is worse than the other. They are all equally bad. There is nothing we can do about it except punish those caught doing it or not play online games at all because there is cheating in every online game whether you notice it or not it is there.
Sorry, but unless there is defnitive proof that a DEV cheated in Blizzard I am not buying your argument. As of right now there is no proof only speculation. EVE admitted to the cheating issue, so there was no doubt that cheating took place.
Current Games: WOW, EVE Online
Don't know how what happened in EVE, but why those GM items aren't limited for use of GMs only? Stupid desing? Can't be too hard to add one check which would cover this one. Would prevent also those one in billion cases of bits turning around and so on...
Give enough people power over something and eventually someone will come along and try to exploit it. This is far from exclusive to Blizzard or CCP. It's unfair to cry that the entire company is full of cheaters based off the actions of one. The only thing that should be called into question is how each company responds within their ability to do so. It's been going on since the earliest days of the virtual world, and these latest incidents are far from the last.
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Well in Eves case it wasn't some GM item. It was some blueprint originals, couple of ship ones and a bunch of missile ones. While tghis is cheating and does have an impact on the Eve world it is hardly as game breaking as some people would make it out to be. These were not one of a kind uber powered items that destroy bosses in 1 blow. Really in the overall scheeme of things both incidents had very little impact on the gameworld in either game but of course cheating is cheating and doesn't matter which is worse.
Oh clearly an accident, it's so obvious. Ok man whatever you wanna think.
Yes the specific Eve incident was more of an impact on the game world than WoWs incident. But WoWs incident did effect more than one single player. It had an effect on his entire guild getting loot they would normally would not have.
Either way the simple fact remains dev cheating happens in every game and no one cheat is worse than the other. They are all equally bad. There is nothing we can do about it except punish those caught doing it or not play online games at all because there is cheating in every online game whether you notice it or not it is there.
Sorry, but unless there is defnitive proof that a DEV cheated in Blizzard I am not buying your argument. As of right now there is no proof only speculation. EVE admitted to the cheating issue, so there was no doubt that cheating took place.
While there may not be any published direct proof of a dev cheating there is plenty of evidence the player himself cheated. He became a cheat the monent he decided to use the item again after discovering what it was and did. You can't really belive that this item was meant to be kept even if it was sent to him by an accidetn which again I really doubt Blizzards GM tools are so clumsy and hard to use that an item mixup like this could happen.
The only argument at all if if a Blizz dev knowingly and willingly cheat. That is unknown by either of us at this point and just down to opinion. You prefer to believe it was an accident where I don't. Oh well i'm not gonna debate it, just have to wait and see if we ever find out anymore agter this at all.
Yea i kind of agree, its a shame that Icelands employment laws wouldnt allow him to be fired.
Do you know what these laws are? I'm curious. They're not part of the EU, so I wasn't aware that Iceland had more stringent employment laws than most of the EU.
Back in EvE. Started with BatMUD. Main MMOs have been EvE and DAoC.
Well in Eves case it wasn't some GM item. It was some blueprint originals, couple of ship ones and a bunch of missile ones. While tghis is cheating and does have an impact on the Eve world it is hardly as game breaking as some people would make it out to be. These were not one of a kind uber powered items that destroy bosses in 1 blow. Really in the overall scheeme of things both incidents had very little impact on the gameworld in either game but of course cheating is cheating and doesn't matter which is worse.
I can't disagree with you more about EvE's case. As I explained in my previous post, these seeded bpo's being given through favouritism to a specific player alliance (the one that just so happened to be on top of the game and involved in many many wars) and used for their benefit not only deprived other player manufacturers from being able to obtain them legitimately through the lottery system but it also probably did affect the outcome of any wars the alliance was involved in. Even if the T2 stuff in question was just used to generate capital for the alliance, that has a big effect. After all, BoB's main defense was that it was able to raise way more capital and way more quickly than its enemies. But the largest effect this scandal had, and yes this has a huge effect on the game itself, is that CCP's image got tarnished. A lot of players see CCP in a different light all together. I am one of them. I don't entirely trust the company now to do the right thing when it comes into questions about player politics and PvP. The devs should imo not be involved at all... period ... not in a game like EvE.
Back in EvE. Started with BatMUD. Main MMOs have been EvE and DAoC.
I do agree that the cheating hurt CCPs name far more but I will respectfully disagree that those BPs given were that much of an impact on the game world as a whole. Those BPs did nothing to help BoB gain the power it got. It did nothing to help them hold and the amount of money those BPs may have brought them was probably very very small compared to all the money being made from moon mining and rent from all the smaller alliances in their space.
What was that list of BPOs again anyways ?
About your comment about Eve devs shouldnt be involved playing the game.
This is a double edged sword. On one hand when devs play the game that their customers play there is a great risk of cheating and dev misconduct. But on the other hand if you remove the devs from playing the game then you got people designing and working on a game they really don't know how it all works when actually playing live on a full server.
Just me personally but I will take a game with the devs playing and knowing how the game really works rather than how it works on paper and just listening to forum trolls and whores to balance and add new stuff to the game.
And once again CCPs cheat and WoWs cheat were both equally bad and shouldn't happen in game but did and more than likely will again at some point in time.
Well in Eves case it wasn't some GM item. It was some blueprint originals, couple of ship ones and a bunch of missile ones. While tghis is cheating and does have an impact on the Eve world it is hardly as game breaking as some people would make it out to be. These were not one of a kind uber powered items that destroy bosses in 1 blow. Really in the overall scheeme of things both incidents had very little impact on the gameworld in either game but of course cheating is cheating and doesn't matter which is worse.
I don't entirely trust the company now to do the right thing when it comes into questions about player politics and PvP. The devs should imo not be involved at all... period ... not in a game like EvE.
And you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but all companies strive to do "the right thing" or they will soon be out of business. I think it's very important that the company, that creates a game, has a complete and first hand knowledge of their creation. Especially in a game like EVE that is so player driven. You want to see angry distrustful people, turn CCP into another Sony.