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General: Garriott Lawsuit Raises Questions

135

Comments

  • _Seeker_Seeker Member Posts: 175

    Love him or hate him Garriott represents what the industry is like.

  • ShreddiShreddi Member UncommonPosts: 320

    He resigned.  Most all companies that deal with software and intellectual property always release the resigning employee immediately once notice is given.   Its  a fact.  Companies do not want employees gathering more of their information to be taken with them elsewhere. 

    This post is intentionally written as to not make any sense what so ever. Thank You Very Much.

  • SouldrainerSouldrainer Member Posts: 1,857

    Would TR still have been abandoned if Garriot had not been fired?  Well, the abandonment happened sometime around launch.  So yeah, TR would have failed regardless of how this suit turns out.  I hate how executive contracts work here.  It's sheer stupidity.  He's saying that, even though he went AWOL on his game, they shouldn't have been able to fire him?  Or rather, he's saying that they fired him the wrong way?  WTF ever man.  He didn't seem too concerned about that when droves of negative feedback flowed in about TR and he ignored it all.  As far as I'm concerned, he's lucky they aren't suing him for damages related to making the game.  With any luck, they will.

    Error: 37. Signature not found. Please connect to my server for signature access.

  • Lord_MarshalLord_Marshal Member Posts: 58

    Garriot and NC are both responsible for the TR fiasco. It could have been a good game too. NC shot it out tried to recoup as much money as possible from selling boxes and aborted it like an unwanted fetus. This lawsuit just is another nail in the coffin of what was once a great career for Garriot. I no longer trust any game connected to either one.

  • JeroKaneJeroKane Member EpicPosts: 7,099

    Richard Garriott has become the biggest joke in the industry and can take a firm place next to Brad "Junky" McQuaid.

    I have been in Closed Beta of Tabula Rasa for a very long time till about 2 months after release.

    Even back then he was hardly around and more with his head into Space, then putting all his attention to the game and it's development.

    Remember that Garriott tried to trick NcSoft into funding his Space expedition, but luckily NcSoft CEO wasn't a fool.

    This was going on already, before the game was even released and still in a pretty much horrible state in Closed Beta.

    I think it was after that, that the CEO of NcSoft got fed up with the many millions that went into TR's development already and forced Garriott to release the damn thing. Wich pretty much sealed it's fate.

     

    Garriott screwed up and failed to deliver! Just like Brad McQuaid screwed up and failed to deliver!!

    He lost all his credit in the industry due to his stupid wet fantasy to get his ass into Space and put that fantasy above his focus and attention to the game Tabula Rasa in wich NCSoft paid him a shitload of money for.

    The only blame on NcSoft is that they were blind, bought into the hype around his name and let him go on for so long, sucking them dry of cash.

    At least Brad McQuaid went of the radar. It's about time Richard Garriott is going to do the same.

    Cheers

  • themiltonthemilton Member Posts: 353

    Why was Garriott so cryptic in his letter when it came to his departure as to what he would be doing next?

    ---

    ***snort***

    My apologies for the fluff comment, but this was the most interesting thing about the article for me. While I would feel badly for Mr. Garriott if he was indeed unfairly let go, I don't really care enough to stop playing CoX. I never played TR and I don't plan on playing Aion. Just hoping that the outcome of the case doesn't destroy Paragon City.

    -------------
    The less you expect, the more you'll be surprised. Hopefully, pleasantly so.

  • CediaCedia Member UncommonPosts: 21

    Just to nitpick, it's "McQuaid", and I absolutely agree with you.

    Though I despise McQuaid more because it's entirely his fault that all we have today are MMO's that follow the quest-level-getphatloot paradigm.

  • JeroKaneJeroKane Member EpicPosts: 7,099
    Originally posted by Cedia


    Just to nitpick, it's "McQuaid", and I absolutely agree with you.
    Though I despise McQuaid more because it's entirely his fault that all we have today are MMO's that follow the quest-level-getphatloot paradigm.

     

    Heh sorry about that. Fixed it :P

  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,726

    The problem with Richard Garriott, he thinks he is a great game designer, yet it was the people under him that were great in UO, he was just a figurehead by that time.  Not to say that he did not have good people under him at TR, he just evidently did not listen to them.

    I think that NCSoft will put him in his place.  You won't see anyone else offering him a contract after this, he is pretty much finished in this industry.  Knowledgible people will avoid any self financed projects he decides to do.

  • CyntheCynthe Member UncommonPosts: 1,414
    Originally posted by SaintViktor

    Originally posted by Cynthe

    Originally posted by Antarious


    I was as upset as anyone with what happened with TR...
     
    But some of the comments here just show a servere lack of intellegence (or at least appear to).
     
    We don't know what was going on at NCSoft... We don't know if the leave of absence was taken (yes to go into space) more due to escape something.. than because he thought it was the best thing to do at the time.
     
    Regardless if the claim is true that they fired him.. then reclassified it as voluntary (for their own good) I think there is probably some breach of contract law there.  I'm not a lawyer...
     
    So I'm more than happy to sit back and see what comes out.  I had made my conclusions when TR failed... and when I saw the headline I thought "wtf"... but when you read the complaint... it should at least get your mental gears in motion that there may be more here than we know about.
     
    In the end maybe Garriott is that big of an arse.. but to make that claim before we know "the facts" and what other things might have been going on.. at this point just seems stupid.

     

    It's clear NCsoft did breach their contract, now whether they can save face and have something to negate some of Richard's claims we'll have to see, but just from reading the claim it is sound if it's all provable on paper which it very well may be. (probably is)

    Of course NCsoft was trying to get rid of Tabula as soon as the game hit the market, they wanted to get rid of the whole of Destination Games in a fell swoop and restructure everything. I don't know why specifically, maybe it had to do with NC Austin's poor handling of Lineage 2 (were they responsible, I think so??)  I know there was a lot of grumbling about Tabula's development to the point of being unprofessional. Something crucial went missing about that game and my gut feeling tells me it was RG's attention and that's why he was told to go.

    I don't agree with how NCsoft dealt with it, NCsoft execs keep proving they are ruthless in that sense, but they are a big business.... You have to be an ass to get rid of an ass? /shrug.

    *puts head in hands* :(



     

    True enough and what do ypu think will happen if NcSoft gets guilty of being accused of foul play here. Will people want to go buy Aion and Guild Wars 2 knowing how the company does business ? I don't know what will happen but when you see millionaires argue over money and the "he said she said" deal there obviously has to be something bad going on here.

     

    Honestly I don't think it's going to have much of an impact. People buy products for the product itself not because of who makes it, generally, only a small portion of people really do boycott or support someone because they believe in them.

    Also if you look at it in an unbiased light, no one involved is a saint. You'd only be hurting yourself to decide to not play NCsoft games because you don't like how they handled one of their most prominent employees, or partners.

     

    (,,,)=^__^=(,,,)

  • TdogSkalTdogSkal Member UncommonPosts: 1,244
    Originally posted by Cedia


    Just to nitpick, it's "McQuaid", and I absolutely agree with you.
    Though I despise McQuaid more because it's entirely his fault that all we have today are MMO's that follow the quest-level-getphatloot paradigm.

     

    How is it Brad McQuaid's fault?  Last I check he had nothing to do with WoW which is the reason that all MMO's today follow the quest level grind paraadigm.

    Sooner or Later

  • xxxfistxxxxxxfistxxx Member Posts: 47

    I fully support Garriot and hope he takes NC to town, hopefully Garriot will hook up with Trion, or rebuild a resemblance of origin.

  • giggalgiggal Member UncommonPosts: 120

    i do know that after actually playing tabula rasa ill never touch anything gariott helps to "design" the game was a disaster it was like someone just threw ideas at the wall and whatever sticked they stuck in the game.

    as for suing the company for 24 million because he was "forced" to sell his stock early. well he has free will, he has a backbone if you dont use either then i dont think that should be suable.

    Gariott went into space for his own choice i didnt see pictures of him kicking and screaming while they locked him in his space suit.

    I think the astronaughts should counter sue for being stuck with him in orbit for so long without the option to space the egotistical maniac.

  • CherishedCherished Member Posts: 9

    did a write up on this issue that covers some of the legal questions.

    Under Development

  • googajoob7googajoob7 Member Posts: 866

    so essentially garriott instead of doing his job . ( with tabula rasa ) decides to go into space .and now wants ncsoft reimburse him for his trip into the final frontier . this guys so finnished he should wair a red shirt . :P 

  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148Member CommonPosts: 6,690
    Originally posted by Cynthe

    Originally posted by SaintViktor

    Originally posted by Cynthe

    Originally posted by Antarious


    I was as upset as anyone with what happened with TR...
     
    But some of the comments here just show a servere lack of intellegence (or at least appear to).
     
    We don't know what was going on at NCSoft... We don't know if the leave of absence was taken (yes to go into space) more due to escape something.. than because he thought it was the best thing to do at the time.
     
    Regardless if the claim is true that they fired him.. then reclassified it as voluntary (for their own good) I think there is probably some breach of contract law there.  I'm not a lawyer...
     
    So I'm more than happy to sit back and see what comes out.  I had made my conclusions when TR failed... and when I saw the headline I thought "wtf"... but when you read the complaint... it should at least get your mental gears in motion that there may be more here than we know about.
     
    In the end maybe Garriott is that big of an arse.. but to make that claim before we know "the facts" and what other things might have been going on.. at this point just seems stupid.

     

    It's clear NCsoft did breach their contract, now whether they can save face and have something to negate some of Richard's claims we'll have to see, but just from reading the claim it is sound if it's all provable on paper which it very well may be. (probably is)

    Of course NCsoft was trying to get rid of Tabula as soon as the game hit the market, they wanted to get rid of the whole of Destination Games in a fell swoop and restructure everything. I don't know why specifically, maybe it had to do with NC Austin's poor handling of Lineage 2 (were they responsible, I think so??)  I know there was a lot of grumbling about Tabula's development to the point of being unprofessional. Something crucial went missing about that game and my gut feeling tells me it was RG's attention and that's why he was told to go.

    I don't agree with how NCsoft dealt with it, NCsoft execs keep proving they are ruthless in that sense, but they are a big business.... You have to be an ass to get rid of an ass? /shrug.

    *puts head in hands* :(



     

    True enough and what do ypu think will happen if NcSoft gets guilty of being accused of foul play here. Will people want to go buy Aion and Guild Wars 2 knowing how the company does business ? I don't know what will happen but when you see millionaires argue over money and the "he said she said" deal there obviously has to be something bad going on here.

     

    Honestly I don't think it's going to have much of an impact. People buy products for the product itself not because of who makes it, generally, only a small portion of people really do boycott or support someone because they believe in them.

    Also if you look at it in an unbiased light, no one involved is a saint. You'd only be hurting yourself to decide to not play NCsoft games because you don't like how they handled one of their most prominent employees, or partners.

     



     

    I'm a Saint, I think.....

    Perhaps most would overlook on how NCsoft does business because they like Aion but you have to admit that NCsoft  has really looked bad since the Worlds.com scandel and now Mr Spaceman's claims. I guess when someone costs you millions you would forge a note too! LOL!

    30
  • GennadiosGennadios Member Posts: 209
    Originally posted by SaintViktor

    I'm a Saint, I think.....
    Perhaps most would overlook on how NCsoft does business because they like Aion but you have to admit that NCsoft  has really looked bad since the Worlds.com scandel and now Mr Spaceman's claims. I guess when someone costs you millions you would forge a note too! LOL!

     

    What worlds.com scanadal? Worlds.com is a failed MMO platform that's trying to get some attention by suing a company vastly more successful than itself.

    Either way the suit will likely be dismissed under prior art and the locusts will move on to WoW or FunCom or whoever else is in the business of running an MMO with a chat client.

  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148Member CommonPosts: 6,690
    Originally posted by Gennadios

    Originally posted by SaintViktor

    I'm a Saint, I think.....
    Perhaps most would overlook on how NCsoft does business because they like Aion but you have to admit that NCsoft  has really looked bad since the Worlds.com scandel and now Mr Spaceman's claims. I guess when someone costs you millions you would forge a note too! LOL!

     

    What worlds.com scanadal? Worlds.com is a failed MMO platform that's trying to get some attention by suing a company vastly more successful than itself.

    Either way the suit will likely be dismissed under prior art and the locusts will move on to WoW or FunCom or whoever else is in the business of running an MMO with a chat client.



     

    True but I wouldn't just quckly dismiss Garriot's claims here. NCsoft was clearly supportive of Operation Immortality and other stuff he has done for NCsoft. My guess is that NCsoft was thinking that Richard Garriot's great space adventure (which they were totally supportive of at the time) that their stocks would go up and when they found out nothing has changed they had to find a way to get rid of him. Now I'm not saying Richard Garriot doesn't deserve what he got but doesn't anyone find it odd that NCsoft was mostly in favor of all his doings and all of a sudden we see the letter and a lawsuit ? I think there is more to it than what we know.

    30
  • GennadiosGennadios Member Posts: 209
    Originally posted by SaintViktor


     
    True but I wouldn't just quckly dismiss Garriot's claims here. NCsoft was clearly supportive of Operation Immortality and other stuff he has done for NCsoft. My guess is that NCsoft was thinking that Richard Garriot's great space adventure (which they were totally supportive of at the time) that their stocks would go up and when they found out nothing has changed they had to find a way to get rid of him. Now I'm not saying Richard Garriot doesn't deserve what he got but doesn't anyone find it odd that NCsoft was mostly in favor of all his doings and all of a sudden we see the letter and a lawsuit ? I think there is more to it than what we know.

     

    Honestly I don't doubt that Garriott's trip was initially supported by NCSoft as a stunt to get publicity (He paid out of pocket, so why not?) In fact, it seriously backfired with alot of fans. There was a game in dire straits that needed clear vision and leadership, and the guy at the helm was out wasting millions on space tourism.

    I think what happened was that NCSoft saw during the trip that the publicity wasn't bringing in extra subs, decided that the millions it dumped into the whole fiasco was already enough, and planned to cancel the project sometime during the trip. Canning Garriott after he got back and putting plans in motion for a permanent shutdown.

    Was it sleazy? Hell yeah, I'm sure even a man rich as Garriott wouldn't spend 24million had he known he wouldn't have a job a few months down the road. But in all honesty, it was still a major vanity project. He can't just turn around and claim that he was chained to the space ship and shot off into orbit purely on business.

  • CursedseiCursedsei Member Posts: 1,012

    Personally, I think of it this way.

    I ask myself who stands to gain more out of this conflict. Garriot or NCSoft?

    NCSoft isn't sueing, and they were forced to pull the plug on TR because it was hemoragging money. Did they just cut the game though? No, they actually gave the players stuff and added content for the game though it was dieing and even after they announced its closure.

    ~Or~

    Garriot, who, I remember reading, mainly took the job as a way to earn enough cash to get his little space wet dream to come true. Everyone knows the game had to be trashed at least once during its design process, most likely not forcing him to pay out of his pocket for those costs. Then, when he's gotten enough from his paycheck he starts on his journey to get out of earth's atmosphere. And when exactly was this? Around the time TR really started going down. Now that he's come back, no longer has a job because he resigned, and thats what I believe, he doesn't have much cash. So, he throws whats left of it into a lawsuit against NCSoft in order to recupperate.

     

    While NCSoft's ethnics and reputation are at risk, Garriot is close to the gutter, both reputation-wise and  financially. He's trying to dress himself up as both victim of a cruel company, and as a paragon of good by standing up to said cruel company. He's hoping that whoever is still loyal to him will fight for him.

     

    Personally? I wish his craft burned up in re-entry, and upon impact, some odd coincidences led to exposed wiring inside the craft and just enough water to fry him. The way I see it is him trying to patch up the damage he did to himself by projecting it upon NCSoft and saying that he could of saved the game, but NCSoft gave him the bird and kicked em all to the curb.

     

    All speculation? Yep. Could I be completely wrong? Oh yeah. But I base what I say on what I see, and what I see is some pompous ass trying to fill his wallet back up.

  • spade777spade777 Member Posts: 9
    Originally posted by donaldduck


    The guys a waster, a one hit wonder...



     

    How bout you do your research before you start bashing someone?  Garriott helped advance the single-player RPG genre with his (mostly successful) Ultima series (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_Series), and then helped pioneer the MMO genre with Ultima Online.  If you don't already know this then you know nothing of the history of RPGs and MMOs, or you simply don't like Garriott and jumped at the chance to spout some nonsense.  I don't even like single-player RPGs but I can certainly respect the role Garriott's games played in helping us to enjoy the games we play today.

    To say that Richard Garriott is a one hit wonder would be as moronic as saying John Carmack was a one hit wonder with Doom.

    Next time do your homework.

     

  • DrowNobleDrowNoble Member UncommonPosts: 1,297

    Sorry but I have to side with NCSoft on this one.

    If I had to guess I would say that TR was canned not only for the low sub numbers, but because it had Garriott's name still attached to it.  Kinda awkward to keep a game running with the name of a guy that no longer works for you.  I also think that Garriott himself didn't do much to get TR rolling.  He seemed more concerned about going into space than working on the game.

    What most likely happened is his "special project" sank and now he wants some money.  Easiest way to do it is to sue, since I'm pretty sure NCSoft wouldn't hire him back considering how he suddenly bailed on them in the first place.

  • ElikalElikal Member UncommonPosts: 7,912

    I find it remarkable that people feel inclined to "take sides" on people they dont know personally and about a matter they know only out of third hand. Were you present in ANY of the ongoings between NCSoft and Garriot? I am taking the luxury of taking no side. There once was a concept that a person is innocent until proven guilty and not the other way around as many of you see Garriot guilty without knowing heck about the details. You turn the entire idea of justice upside down!

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • WraithoneWraithone Member RarePosts: 3,806
    Originally posted by DevilXaphan

    Originally posted by bmdevine

    Originally posted by DevilXaphan


    Garriot's ego is getting bigger the more he grunts and groans. I say it's time for him to just let it go.

    Devil, do you intentionally try to make your posts hard to read???  I would recommend reading the complaint (I posted some links to the document in some other threads on this topic.)  I'm not claiming everything in it is true, because I couldn't possibly know, but if it is, then letting it go is not a reasonable option for anyone to expect.  Would you jut let tens of millions of dollars go?

     

    You do realize he pull some major BS while developing the game and even cost over-runs to the mmo. After launch he was pig headed about needed changes the players voiced about but never planned to implement. It's only after he left did NCWest try to salvage the game, but with only so many subs the game was not profitable enough to keep it going. I for one was glad he got fired.

     

    Devil...You do realize that your sentence structure reveals what your first language is?   I played TR for a few months after launch, then left. The game had potential, but it was just too badly flawed.  I went back last year for a few months. While they had corrected some of the problems, they had lost too many players to be able to recover.  Its too bad, as some of the basic concepts could have been fun.  Who is "right" in the current fight, who knows?.<shrug>. But it wouldn't be the first time that suits had backstabbed  a developer.  Looking at the personalities involved, ego no doubt played a good part on both sides.

    "If you can't kill it, don't make it mad."
  • WraithoneWraithone Member RarePosts: 3,806
    Originally posted by Starz


    Garriott won't get his case, I could definitely forsee NCSoft going all out, not barring anything to win this suit, they don't have anything to lose by going all out. The MMO community doesn't like Richard Garriott.

     

    And they do like NCsoft?... What planet are you posting from? Korea?   RG has had his ups and downs over the years. But he was once a very talented developer. Anyone who played the Ultima series, and UO knows that for a fact.   What happened with TR is known only to those directly involved. It had a troubled origin, and no doubt ego on both sides was involved. If you've dealt with NCsoft,  you would know that as well. 

    "If you can't kill it, don't make it mad."
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