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JGE v EVE Online - not comparable but still.
reanor
Member UncommonPosts: 441
I am quite excited about JGE. Just the feel of arcade in the game attracts me already and ability to use 360 controller makes it even better.
I think its not news that EVE Online is the best Space MMO on the market right now. Even though it still has and even after all the adjustments a bit steep learning curve it offers almost endless variety of things to do in space. The only difference with JGE would be arcade feel in JGE and joystick type of controller utilization.
JGE reminds me a bit of Earth and Beyond, if anyone remembers, probably the first space MMO of its generation from EA Westwood Studios. I was one of the first who played it and was enjoying it a lot. After a while though people moved to other games and EA decided to close EaB project and shut down the servers.
JGE brings me back to the nostalgia feeling. Even though you can't walk in stations I think JGE will be fun enough without any of that. I just hope that Codemasters know what they are doing. I really hope that they have researched successful model of EVE Online and made some conclusions that may help JGE success. I hope it will have deep and immerse PvE and enjoyable PvP modes. I really hope that game at the release (June 23rd unless it gets postponed) won't have only mission grind to get a better ship. I really hope there will be more than that. Otherwise game will become abandoned after a few months and repeat the fate of EaB.
Comments
Eve is more about econ and building empires. JGE is more about twitch based skill and developing your pilot ability while conquering space in pve and pvp for your nation.
the thing that is gonna help JGE is that it says what it is and it is what it says. Although it has an auction house and econ it is more about the combat, it is an action mmo kinda like global agenda and planetside. JGE is not like Eve, JGE gives you control of the ship manually and that allows you to increase your skill as fast as you can learn to fight in a world with real skill involved, there is no point and click navigation in JGE.
I was ready to love Eve but Eve did not love me back. I thought from the adds that it was going to be more like JGE is and instead I was forced to endure some boring tutorial and the worst part was the navigation from a list. I never felt so let down. I wanted the excitement of real skill not the point and click nonsense that Eve has. JGE says what it is and now the networking tech is good enough to properly support an action mmo that the industry sorely lacks. So twitch based skill games are the future and so the future is bright indeed. No more heart break of the Eve type for me.
EVE is definitely a great game of its kind. I've enjoyed overall probably a year of gaming and I still have an account active and play it from time to time since the day it was released.
You're of course right about differences between these 2 games. What I am concerned about is that it has been proven by the multiple similar genre games that space MMOs, or say sci-fi MMOs don't last long due to specific reasons. One of those reasons imho is when developers is not successful in delivering to players the promised content. Another reason is a simplicity of the game. We have to remember that JGE won't appeal to the mass gamers market, it will only appeal to gamers who likes space flight and space combat sims. While there will be some 'crafting' and 'trading' going on its a known fact that JGE will be focused on space flight combat most of all.
When game takes a specific focus the result of it must appeal to wide audience otherwise game may not meet the ends and run out of budget. I really want JGE to succeed because except SWG: Lightspeed there wasn't really any space MMO focused on space combat. We can still speak about EVE, but EVE -IS- a different game. So when I heard and learned some details about JGE I thought to myself - "Finally something new".
I really want this game to succeed and be very fun. But in order for it to be fun "Codemaster" devs need to understand that they won't be able to win wide audience of gamers by only spectacular graphics and go there and kill some ships missions. I've read some reviews and it seems that at the time of release some of the features promised may not be implemented. Thats of course fine. Even if JGE at the time of release will still only be a number of ships to grind for and missions to do that grind through, I will still enjoy it for a while.
I hope that Codemasters will be able to provide enough new content to keep the core group of JGE players interested. Because as I've mentioned already space flight sims only appeal to a specific group of members. And that group will become even smaller after players will realize that flying the ship will require a skill. I can already see people hyped up joining and excited about PvP potential in space and dropping off due to requirements of specific reflexes and attentiveness. Thats the main point.
Codemasters needs to keep this important fact in mind. Having PvE content as exciting as PvP will be very important to keep those gamers' subs who are not very skillful in flight sim PvP. Even by looking at EVE number of subs its clear that these type of games are not for everyone. The number of players on the server at any time grew more than 2x times since the release in 1997. In order for number of subs to stay constant and even grow Codemasters will have to make some real effort to bring more people on and not only those who likes to show how skillful they are with game controllers.
I can tell you for sure that if EVE didn't have so simple interface to control ships the number of subs would remain low and thats considering the fact that EVE is sold worldwide. Codemasters really need to be careful about what their doing. Driving a car in Auto Assault from NCSOFT did require a skill as well. But you know how the game ended.
Just so you know Netdevil also made Auto Assault too.
And NetDevil is working with Codemasters on JGE as well. I don't think that developers name means anything bad as long as game is made well. NetDevil doesn't have much experience in MMOs, not at all to be precise, but I still hope that JGE will come out well. They just need to keep their heads on their shoulders and don't make the game the way their VIPs like it to be but with understanding about the gaming market.
Most PvP style games FAIL.. If JGE is to succeed and last longer then a few years with BIG numbers, they need to supply good PvE content.. However, that is easier said then done.. In the holy Dev bible is "The book of easy" as with learning MMO 101, you'll come to find out that the easiest and CHEAPEST games to design are those based around PvP or RvR.. This is because they require little to no PvE storyline, quest and content.. It takes many more employees to design and maintain a good PvE mmo then a PvP style one..
So.. one must ask themselves when playing PvP style of games.. Do you really want to trust a company that took the easy way out to make a quick buck, or do you want to support a company that focuses are quality instead? Something to think about
I keep seeing CodeMasters get mentioned in regards to what people feel needs to be put in the game, but i was under the impression that NetDevil was developing it and CM was just the EU distributor and server host. As such, they wouldn't really have a hand in the development of the game. Has this changed?
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
If you guys have ever seen me on this forum before you know im a big Eve fanboy and a big time themepark hater.
With that said I have never had a problem picking up other MMos as my second or even third game. So I have a couple questions if you don't mind answering them I would be grateful. After my Questions I will also add to the OP with my thoughts on Eve vs Jge so I still stay somewhat on topic.
I understand JGE will be twitch combat, this I really like but I want to ask what is Jge offering me that other Multiplayer pvp games other then just guilds and global chats?
Will Jge have crafting in it? if so what types?
You say Jge has "Pvp Options" well right away that turns be off a tad, When you say options I hope you mean full pvp zones for roaming gangs of Frigs and cruisers not some lame queue system with a space type instanced pvp battle. will it be Open ended pvp or instanced?
Other then being a Fighter pilot will I have other roles to choose from? like trader or explorer? were arent all just going to be combat pilots in frigs are we?
If the game has some sort or open pvp will this area have gvg and AvA territorial mechanics? is there some sort or resource control system? is the pvp actually meaningful (not just me blowing up another guy)?
Now to the OP:
Personally I feel stacking Eve and JGE up isnt fair to either game. Clearly these games will target totally different player base.
I have yet to see anything on Jge that shows that it will be as robust as Eve online. While JGE has an advantage with twitch combat, is it really an advantage after all? Wont JGE also turn off newbie players because they dont have the hand Eye cordination of the l33t players? imo it will be even a faster turn off then Eve learning curve.
So in closing it's really no contest for me, Twitch combat alone is not worth leaving such an incredibly deeep MMO experience such as Eve. But I will give JGE a try and if it turns out that it is good I will sub as my second or third MMO.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
Gotta love this guy.....
PVE = quality, PVP = easy money, easy way out!
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why don't you ask the guys that made UO, Eve or DAoC if they took the easy way out.
They released more content and features for the players to mess with then Any Pve themepark Ever.
Pvp keeps people playing, Pve gets boring and after a while your stuck waiting for new content to arive until you unsub.
I personally like a mix of both but to say Pvp focused games have no content and an easy way out is wrong
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
what sucks about most point and click games is the lvl of boredom that the combat system generates. If for example you have raid content like wow or I guess in Eve it would blob vs blob conflicts, this content is great and social but what really is needed is fun combat because even with social aspects of the game you need to connect with the game in some way and the game needs to allow you have fun on a personal lvl and with twitch based skill involved you can really express yourself and generate a fun connection to the game because your constantly trying to refine your skill and it never ends. In this way you build worth as a pilot because of your skill and not how uber your gear is. This adds value to who you are and your name and your account has no real value except for your reputation that you created with actual skill.
There are so many benifits to twitch based skill in an mmo and now the network tech is good enough for us to be able to expirience it. I heard freelancer was developed as an mmo but they had money and tech issues and had to convert it to a single player game; so it has been a long time comming and it's almost here and it's about time.
JGMIII, you may get some answers to your questions on the JGE web site in game FAQ. But its outdated. For example Auction House is already in game being tested, while FAQ mentions it only as a future plan.
I have a strange feeling that JGE won't be a big failure, but it won't be a big success either. It won't be a failure because JGE will be one of a kind in its genre. There are no other similar scale MMOGs that allow twitch combat arcade style flight space combat and simulation. But it won't be a big success either due to a limited interest to this genre of games. WoW success only proves that as simplier the game is as more people it attracts.
Space Flight sims sell ok as single player games, but thats about it you pay for maybe 100 hours of fun and you beat the game get all the goodies and you can trade it in and get another game. In case of MMO its complete different thing. As soon as you reach the point of where single player game would end MMO offers grind, or players are usually stalled by some dumb repetitive content until developers come up with some new content, polish bug test it and release so that level capped players can find something else to do other than mind dumbing grind for some extra points of whatever.
Its actually a problem of any MMO. Asian MMOs don't even try to be anything different and just offer you pure grind and very mediocre content. But thats why they are free. When people are asked to pay 15$ a month they really expect ongoing fun that never ends like the single player content does. And thats the problem that NetDevil will have to face too. And depending on how they will be able to manage the release of a new content JGE will either be popular and fun or it will end up on the shelves after PvP will get boring and PvE will all be played through.
Yes its NetDevil sorry, Codemasters is a publisher.
all i can say if its anything close to freelancer. i will be a very happy camper.
The original Jumpgate was a game I enjoyed but felt lacked depth. Felt like a single player game that had MMO aspects bolted on rather than that it had been designed as an MMO.
Whilst I'm more interested in the likes of FE and Huxley, I'll almost certainly be trying JE and hoping it offers a bit more meat this time round.
The ruptured capillaries in your nose belie the clarity of your wisdom.
Gotta love this guy.....
PVE = quality, PVP = easy money, easy way out!
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why don't you ask the guys that made UO, Eve or DAoC if they took the easy way out.
They released more content and features for the players to mess with then Any Pve themepark Ever.
Pvp keeps people playing, Pve gets boring and after a while your stuck waiting for new content to arive until you unsub.
I personally like a mix of both but to say Pvp focused games have no content and an easy way out is wrong
Ha Ha Ha.. DAoC was a joke of a game as far as I'm concern.. I couldn't stand it after 3 months.. lol DAoC peaked in Summer of 02 at 250,000 and a 2 years later started to drop like a prom dress.. Latest report shows it below 50,000 subs = FAIL FAIL..
UO.. same thing.. peaked about 250,000 and dropped like a brick a couple years later.. FAIL Now what is your best example of success? OH.. Eve? Ha Ha Ha.. give me a break.. Eve has a monopoly on Sci Fi space mmo currently and all they can muster up is 250,000 subs.. I'm sure as soon as another sci fi space game comes out that is even 1/2 way decent, Eve's subs will drop as well.. I tried Eve and found it boring as hell before the trial offer expired..
But as you say.. PvE gets borning.. So tell me genius.. Name me a PvP game that has 11 million subs and has lasted longer then 4 years.. I'll be waiting for your reply genius
Gotta love this guy.....
PVE = quality, PVP = easy money, easy way out!
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why don't you ask the guys that made UO, Eve or DAoC if they took the easy way out.
They released more content and features for the players to mess with then Any Pve themepark Ever.
Pvp keeps people playing, Pve gets boring and after a while your stuck waiting for new content to arive until you unsub.
I personally like a mix of both but to say Pvp focused games have no content and an easy way out is wrong
Ha Ha Ha.. DAoC was a joke of a game as far as I'm concern.. I couldn't stand it after 3 months.. lol DAoC peaked in Summer of 02 at 250,000 and a 2 years later started to drop like a prom dress.. Latest report shows it below 50,000 subs = FAIL FAIL..
UO.. same thing.. peaked about 250,000 and dropped like a brick a couple years later.. FAIL Now what is your best example of success? OH.. Eve? Ha Ha Ha.. give me a break.. Eve has a monopoly on Sci Fi space mmo currently and all they can muster up is 250,000 subs.. I'm sure as soon as another sci fi space game comes out that is even 1/2 way decent, Eve's subs will drop as well.. I tried Eve and found it boring as hell before the trial offer expired..
But as you say.. PvE gets borning.. So tell me genius.. Name me a PvP game that has 11 million subs and has lasted longer then 4 years.. I'll be waiting for your reply genius
Lets not use WoW as an example please that game is so popular because it appeals to Everyone Casual, hardcore, pve and pvp players.
Imo games like UO and DAoC have been a massive success, Even with decline these games have been around a very longtime and its saying something that they still turn a profit even after all these years.
Say what you want about eve but if it was a crappy game noone would be playing it.
You can;t just peg a game as failed if it doesnt appeal to you, players enjoy these games and pvp games have proven that they can hang with all the other MMOs on the market with the expecion of WoW (noone will even have 11 million subs again).
While I personally enjoy a mix of both
Average MMO subs excluding WoW are from 150-300k how are pvp focused games that fall in that number bracket a failure?
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
I harldy understand what you mean here .. there is little to no single player aspect in the original jumpgate ...
But from the recent reviews, It makes me feel that JGE will fit to this description (single player game with MMO aspects)
By the way, for the OP, when people say that EvE and JGE are not comparable, it's true, there will be not any sandbox element in jumpgate. The devs have designed it with making a clone of WoW but in space in mind it seems.
You should look and study the numbers my friend.. PvP is a very small niche genre.. And when I mean fail.. I mean fail based on a opportunity lost.. Let me give you an example.. A high school junior varsity team plays a NCAA div 1 champion and loses by 3 points.. That is a major success
, based from the high school teams perspective.. As far as the college team is concerned, it's a EPIC FAILURE.. When you take short cuts in life that minimize your chances and goals.. Is that really a success or fail..
Going to school, not taking homework home with you and doing the minimum work needed to get C+ or B- on test is FAIL in my eyes.. I dont' believe in underachievers or slakcers.. and again I'll repeat myself.. Almost all pvp mmo's designed today are FAIL.. The facts are simple and true.. PvP games take less resources to develop and maintain.. PERIOD. I still have yet to read or hear a successful PvP mmo.. UO has never reached it's potential because it ignores a good PvE storyline.. Eve only exist because there are no other choices.. LOL, unless you want to count SWG.. Which for awhile had more subs then Eve did and, Eve's numbers started to increase more and more as SWG died.. DAoC was a fad that lasted a couple years.. None of these games are successful enough for ANY dev to use them as a template for another..
Keep believing what you want about PvP mmo's.. It's all in your head.. The numbers out there however say PvE games are probably 80% of the market if not more.. As for what this OP .. I dont' see much difference between JGE and Eve, and suspect that Eve will take a hit in their subs, and JGE will be lucky to get over 100k.. They are both targeting the same people.. Then add in BP.. POW.. a 3 way battle where no one wins.. LOL
Other then WoW and Eve can you name one game that hasn't declined in the years after release.
imo to say a game fails because it drops in subs as it gets older would mean Every MMO is a failure other then WoW and Eve.
One of the two games is a pvp focused game btw.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
Actually there are a number of games that have grown or remain constant over the years.. We are entering a new era of mmo's and people are ready for something new.. Obviously you are because you're here looking for a new game.. I find it somewhat ironic that a fanbois of Eve, is on another website LOOKING.. That is like a married man claiming love to his wife while standing inside a "chicken ranch" looking at the menu.. lmaoooo
(YELLING) I love Eve, it rocks.. It's the best sci fi game ever.. It's a success.. blah blah blah.. ( mumbling) btw, when does another game come out I'm bored with Eve...... lol
Maybe I should just wait for Blizzards new MMO to hit the shelves.. Rumor has it, it's going to be sci-fi PvE style.. I bet it attracts over 5 million in the first year... lmaooo
I would NOT call UO a massive success. It fell to #2 (and there were only TWO then) when EQ comes out. It is a horrible game. Lots of camping. Lots of grinding. Cookie cutter tank mage running around. Horrible pking. Heck, i was in the UO beta and i won't even subbed and preferred to wait for EQ.
And just being there a long time is not a measure of success.
I am in no way looking for a game to replace the two I play. I enjoy discussing MMO topics with fellow fans of the genre and like reading on news of New games. If Anything when a New game comes out I take it on as my third MMO. I never Ever stop playing Eve Its always a game im subbed to and it's been that way since I started.
You seriously shouldn't assume to know me or anyone else on these forums, it makes you look like an ass tbh.
Also you should check the number bud, only WoW and eve have had steady growth since release. Unless you actually count F2p games, if so Ill toss Dofus into that group as well.
And yes to the above poster if a MMO survives more then 11 years it's a success. the game turns a nice profit for EA, so Does DAoC and Eve is the most successful of the bunch.
Yeah Pvp focused MMos can succed, I wish people on this forum didnt consider MMOs a failure because they didnt like the game. It's sad really.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
I am in no way looking for a game to replace the two I play. I enjoy discussing MMO topics with fellow fans of the genre and like reading on news of New games. If Anything when a New game comes out I take it on as my third MMO. I never Ever stop playing Eve Its always a game im subbed to and it's been that way since I started.
You seriously shouldn't assume to know me or anyone else on these forums, it makes you look like an ass tbh.
Also you should check the number bud, only WoW and eve have had steady growth since release. Unless you actually count F2p games, if so Ill toss Dofus into that group as well. You might want to look at MMOcharts.. Wow and Eve are NOT the only 2 games that have shown growth or remained constant.. Runescape, FF, Tibia, CoH come to mind
And yes to the above poster if a MMO survives more then 11 years it's a success. the game turns a nice profit for EA, so Does DAoC and Eve is the most successful of the bunch. I take it you call EQ1 successful in today's market? Eve hasn't had any competition yet or been on the market long enough.. I suspect soon as a decent space mmo comes out.. Eve goes bye bye..
Yeah Pvp focused MMos can succed, I wish people on this forum didnt consider MMOs a failure because they didnt like the game. It's sad really. And once again another poster jumps to comclusions.. What did you say above about ASSUMING? oh.. makes you look like an ASS.. I believe I posted that in my view, that any game that "underachieves" it's potention is a FAILURE..
Have a nice day
Gotta love this guy.....
PVE = quality, PVP = easy money, easy way out!
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why don't you ask the guys that made UO, Eve or DAoC if they took the easy way out.
They released more content and features for the players to mess with then Any Pve themepark Ever.
Pvp keeps people playing, Pve gets boring and after a while your stuck waiting for new content to arive until you unsub.
I personally like a mix of both but to say Pvp focused games have no content and an easy way out is wrong
Ha Ha Ha.. DAoC was a joke of a game as far as I'm concern.. I couldn't stand it after 3 months.. lol DAoC peaked in Summer of 02 at 250,000 and a 2 years later started to drop like a prom dress.. Latest report shows it below 50,000 subs = FAIL FAIL..
UO.. same thing.. peaked about 250,000 and dropped like a brick a couple years later.. FAIL Now what is your best example of success? OH.. Eve? Ha Ha Ha.. give me a break.. Eve has a monopoly on Sci Fi space mmo currently and all they can muster up is 250,000 subs.. I'm sure as soon as another sci fi space game comes out that is even 1/2 way decent, Eve's subs will drop as well.. I tried Eve and found it boring as hell before the trial offer expired..
But as you say.. PvE gets borning.. So tell me genius.. Name me a PvP game that has 11 million subs and has lasted longer then 4 years.. I'll be waiting for your reply genius
It seems you already found your game, please keep playing that one and leave us alone
p.s. This game you like so much also has alot of PvP content and the PvP servers there are the most popular ( at least in europe ), so ... pwnd?
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
WoW has alot of PvP content? hmmmmm really? You must mean bg's, arenas and wintergrasp? Actually genius.. 95% of WoW data bank and coding is PvE content, and without it WoW doesn't survive on the limited PvP content.. That is a SIMPLE FACT..
But we'll see what happens with JGE.. If they ignore PvE content and try to survive on PvP content like EvE has.. It's going to be a struggle just to stay afloat.. SWTOR claims to have a huge storyline with PvE content.. Postponing launch dates doesn't say much either.. Not good for business.. Can you imagine if the automakers delayed their line up of cars 6 months or longer.. YEP.. NOT going to happen, cause they know damn well how "normal" business works.. But then we're dealing with the cyber world of gaming where normal laws and rules dont' apply..
I know from my perspective.. my "hype" level as dropped for this game over the past year, and I see their website hype rating is dropping as well.. hmm NOT GOOD..
I'll tell ya there are people thinking this is supposed to be Eve with twitched based combat then actually know what this game is about. Eve does not have a healthy player driven econ because if it did then GM's would not have to regulate it. It's all an illusion with a grindfest thrown in for the masochistic.
ND has said from the start that the focus was combat in big battles but for some reason every one thinks JGE should Eve's economy. Well guess what it can't because if Eve's system and specifically the total loss on death is used in JGE the Eve system breaks the econ. Ya that is right. because in JGE "you will die a lot" a quote from the devs. So what this means is people won't give a good god dam about your manufactured parts because they will lose it at close intervals, so they will just buy the cheap vendor parts or what ever parts are available that are close to the vendor price. You see if you institute total loss on death the econ becomes price fixed. The econ becomes broken. So all you Eve fanboys can go back to Eve and play your precious econ game cause it aint happening here.
And you Rydeson why don't lower your rating to 0, cause you are not the target market sorry. It is a twitch-skill-based space flight simulator action mmo not a pve wow clone. Good god can you people wake up. JGE is the best game ever to come down the pipe and you all are stuck in the past. This is not your game if you are not looking to prove your skill in pvp and bit of pve on the side.
This game is for the new generation of space pilots who want fast action and a great combat flight simulator engine to prove their skill in and collect intell on enemy movements and sabotage the supplies of parts for building stations and attack and defend territory. This game is for the skilled pilots and the strategic thinkers. We need this game, but the game does not need you if you want another Eve.
O and by the way JGE got nominated for best in show at E3 so I doubt you know what you are talking about Rydeson. I have seen the game and it really is better than anything we have ever played.
Uhm... Correct me if im wrong, but isn't there that whole "bailout" thing going on because they are epic failing? Maybe if they did delay a car model and made something consumers really wanted, they would actually sell cars!
but yes, if thats how a "normal" business works, I want my mmos working totally different.
Delayed release can mean very positive things, depending on what the developer does in that time, and how close it was to meeting the launch as is. I'd rather give them more time to get it together and be awesome, then have another AoC, WAR, or Darkfall. (played all but the last, but i glanced into what happened with darkfall and it makes me laugh).