I honestly wish game devs in fantasy games would spend time with the real version of the weapons their putting into games, mostly you hear them talk about this and that and how you need trade offs. I get that their balancing the game through this but they just show that 98% of the time they have never once used any of these weapons. A spear is a deadly weapon in the hands of a master with it and can kill with such speed and grance that you never see it coming, likewise a two handed sword does not weight 15 lbs and take a year to swing. They weight at most 8 or 9 and if your trained with it you can swing it faster than the eye can track, you can also do many other awsome things with two handed swords. Even two handed axes and hammers swing faster and weight a bit less than they are said to.
I honestly wish game devs in fantasy games would spend time with the real version of the weapons their putting into games, mostly you hear them talk about this and that and how you need trade offs. I get that their balancing the game through this but they just show that 98% of the time they have never once used any of these weapons. A spear is a deadly weapon in the hands of a master with it and can kill with such speed and grance that you never see it coming, likewise a two handed sword does not weight 15 lbs and take a year to swing. They weight at most 8 or 9 and if your trained with it you can swing it faster than the eye can track, you can also do many other awsome things with two handed swords. Even two handed axes and hammers swing faster and weight a bit less than they are said to.
You are right. But there is gameplay and balancing to consider for game devs and I think most companies go for balance which means some trade offs.
It's the same thing with stuff like heavy crossbows; in reality an angry peasant with an arbalest could kill any trained and armored knight riding past on his horse from hundreds of yards (hence why it was forbidden in most of Europe at one time) and you'll never see ranged users one shotting other players like that in most MMO's. (Besides, a firing speed of two bolts per minute would annoy most people, I guess).
And of course there is already a natural trade off for two handers; two hander users can't use a shield.
I wonder how weapon balance will pan out in MO. There is the realistic approach and there is the diversity approach which is more in line with most people's wish to be different than the guy next to them and that means making every kind of weapon just as useful but in different situations.
The different kinds of damage is interesting though; in a group you might have two warrior type players, but one might be much more skilled in blunt weapons and the other in piercing/slashing things. When confronted with an undead monster without flesh, that blunt guy would be the most preferable to do the hard hitting I guess.
Im really looking forward to this game now that i have seen that being a crafter attains the the status of a healer with this kind of mechanics a must have person to know .
Weeee im so skilled player I made a steel handle and head!! pew pew pew im owning other people with my sword!! pew pew pew!!! lol get a life and play a game that got the the point of fantasy. Realism is not really working in an MMO.. go outside your home and smell the air instead.
Weeee im so skilled player I made a steel handle and head!! pew pew pew im owning other people with my sword!! pew pew pew!!! lol get a life and play a game that got the the point of fantasy. Realism is not really working in an MMO.. go outside your home and smell the air instead.
Yes, it SOUNDS great. Implementation will be key here, even a busted UI could kill the feature.
As a side note, i thought i read there was a bit of experimentation (ala SWG) involved in the crafting too. So feasibly, even a like item could be slightly different.
Also, am i understanding that there is not form of damage range (1-30), or DPS (4.5) on items? just good bad, average and so on?
That's kinda cool if so.
Nah, if you read the powerpoint pres, you learn that knowledge of weapon stats is inherent to your experience with that type of weapon by using or making them. To me a sword might read "mediocre damage" while to you, as the experienced swordsman and part-time weaponsmith that you are, there is much more detailed info in the tooltip. (And not only materials matter, also the experience of the crafter influences the stats).
No no, i got that point. but it still read as if all weapons only get a rating such as "low, med, high" instead of DPS and damage ranges.
I was looking froward to this, if it was indeed this way.
Mrbloodworth, hey are you already bored of Age of Conan now? hahah
Yes, it SOUNDS great. Implementation will be key here, even a busted UI could kill the feature.
As a side note, i thought i read there was a bit of experimentation (ala SWG) involved in the crafting too. So feasibly, even a like item could be slightly different.
Also, am i understanding that there is not form of damage range (1-30), or DPS (4.5) on items? just good bad, average and so on?
That's kinda cool if so.
Nah, if you read the powerpoint pres, you learn that knowledge of weapon stats is inherent to your experience with that type of weapon by using or making them. To me a sword might read "mediocre damage" while to you, as the experienced swordsman and part-time weaponsmith that you are, there is much more detailed info in the tooltip. (And not only materials matter, also the experience of the crafter influences the stats).
No no, i got that point. but it still read as if all weapons only get a rating such as "low, med, high" instead of DPS and damage ranges.
I was looking froward to this, if it was indeed this way.
Mrbloodworth, hey are you already bored of Age of Conan now? hahah
What?
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Yes, it SOUNDS great. Implementation will be key here, even a busted UI could kill the feature.
As a side note, i thought i read there was a bit of experimentation (ala SWG) involved in the crafting too. So feasibly, even a like item could be slightly different.
Also, am i understanding that there is not form of damage range (1-30), or DPS (4.5) on items? just good bad, average and so on?
That's kinda cool if so.
Nah, if you read the powerpoint pres, you learn that knowledge of weapon stats is inherent to your experience with that type of weapon by using or making them. To me a sword might read "mediocre damage" while to you, as the experienced swordsman and part-time weaponsmith that you are, there is much more detailed info in the tooltip. (And not only materials matter, also the experience of the crafter influences the stats).
No no, i got that point. but it still read as if all weapons only get a rating such as "low, med, high" instead of DPS and damage ranges.
I was looking froward to this, if it was indeed this way.
Mrbloodworth, hey are you already bored of Age of Conan now? hahah
Yes, it SOUNDS great. Implementation will be key here, even a busted UI could kill the feature.
As a side note, i thought i read there was a bit of experimentation (ala SWG) involved in the crafting too. So feasibly, even a like item could be slightly different.
Also, am i understanding that there is not form of damage range (1-30), or DPS (4.5) on items? just good bad, average and so on?
That's kinda cool if so.
Nah, if you read the powerpoint pres, you learn that knowledge of weapon stats is inherent to your experience with that type of weapon by using or making them. To me a sword might read "mediocre damage" while to you, as the experienced swordsman and part-time weaponsmith that you are, there is much more detailed info in the tooltip. (And not only materials matter, also the experience of the crafter influences the stats).
No no, i got that point. but it still read as if all weapons only get a rating such as "low, med, high" instead of DPS and damage ranges.
I was looking froward to this, if it was indeed this way.
Until you know weapontry, you character's skill determines what information you can actully see about the weapon...!
___________________________
- Knowledge is power, ive been in school for 28 years!
Yes, it SOUNDS great. Implementation will be key here, even a busted UI could kill the feature.
As a side note, i thought i read there was a bit of experimentation (ala SWG) involved in the crafting too. So feasibly, even a like item could be slightly different.
Also, am i understanding that there is not form of damage range (1-30), or DPS (4.5) on items? just good bad, average and so on?
That's kinda cool if so.
Nah, if you read the powerpoint pres, you learn that knowledge of weapon stats is inherent to your experience with that type of weapon by using or making them. To me a sword might read "mediocre damage" while to you, as the experienced swordsman and part-time weaponsmith that you are, there is much more detailed info in the tooltip. (And not only materials matter, also the experience of the crafter influences the stats).
No no, i got that point. but it still read as if all weapons only get a rating such as "low, med, high" instead of DPS and damage ranges.
I was looking froward to this, if it was indeed this way.
Until you know weapontry, you character's skill determines what information you can actully see about the weapon...!
Yeah, but his wishes are granted. It seems there won't be any absolute numbers in the tooltips according to the pp presentation.
Originally posted by DarkPony Yeah, but his wishes are granted. It seems there won't be any absolute numbers in the tooltips according to the pp presentation.
I wonder how medieval knights were seeing their dps they were dealing ^__^
-- /thread
Remember, your advantage lies in your opponent's weakness (J)
I just updated the first page of the thread with more information on crafting if you are interested but I will post it here also for convenience. This is from the mortalonline forums from the dev working on crafting.
Yes, but that's just the crafting. The entire process is of course different depending on what items or material groups we are talking about, but in general, it will work like this:
1. Gathering/farming/mining etc
You collect resources from nature, the quantity (and sometimes quality) depending on your skills and tools. For instance, you collect Wolf Teeth from dead wolves. Or Heamatite from sedimentary rocks.
2. Refining/combining etc
You (or someone else) then refines the raw materials collected during the first step. This requires skills, tools and often a workbench or a workshop. It often involves combining different raw materials and adding different substances. Usually, only the quantity of the refining is affected by skills and tools, but there are some cases where the quality of the refined material will differ. For instance, the teeth you collected may be used to produce Emalj (a hard teeth substance). Or you use the Haematite to produce Pig Iron. Both of these refined materials can be used in crafting, however Pig Iron is very brittle and is usually further refined (into for instance Steel of varying qualities).
3. Crafting
The crafting process itself is very different depending on what you want to craft, but in general you need two different skill-sets: One for the "type" and one for the "material". To make a Steel Sword Blade, something like both your Blacksmithing > Weaponsmithing > Bladesmithing skill and your Metallurgy > Metalworking > Steel would be involved. Here your skills, tools and supplementary ingredients all affect the quality (not the quantity) of the outcome. You will also need a handle for your sword blade. You can either make it yourself, for instance from the Emalj (if you have the skills, tools and resources) or let someone else do it for you. Finally, in the last process the pieces need to be assembled.
4. Repairing
When your sword is used, it will loose Durability. Loosing Durability doesn't simply mean it will break at one point, it means it will slowly get dull and loose balance. Or rather, the materials can actually be of different Durability Type ranging from the ones that will let your sword keep its edge until the very last point of Durability, to those that will become dull after only a few strikes although they won't actually break for long.
You can learn some simple skills connected to your Swordsmanship skill to keep your sword in good shape, meaning you can rather easily repair it. However, as long as it's not being repaired properly by a real crafter, it will loose some of its Max Durability each time. (And even a great crafter will steal a point or two).
5. Reverse Engineering and Recycling
If you give your sword to another player (or he takes it by force), he may take it back to his workshop and try to reverse engineer the design, or simply try to melt it down to take care of the resources. The chances of understanding the design (learning how to craft the type yourself), and the quantity of extracted material will be dependent on the same skills that were used in making the sword.
Not everything can be revealed by reverse engineering a crafted item though. You may learn what materials were used in making it, and you may learn how to make the type yourself - but some item parts will not only let you use 1 or 2 resources, they will also let you adjust the ratio between those. This, as a copy cat, you will have to experiment with yourself.
I am very excited about crafting in MO, I think it's heading in the right direction. As long as the game does not become a gankfest and the penalties for anti social behaviour are in place then I think it has very real possibilities to claim the MMO crown.
Weeee im so skilled player I made a steel handle and head!! pew pew pew im owning other people with my sword!! pew pew pew!!! lol get a life and play a game that got the the point of fantasy. Realism is not really working in an MMO.. go outside your home and smell the air instead.
Please tell me what you believe the point of fantasy games are first. Trolling games you apparently dont like is a much better use of time, right? I guess things are pretty boring in AoC.
To have a lot of options to make a weapon or gear that's exactly what you want for your class/role is a nice aspect of a game.
I hope it looks nice as well.
It's nice for the crafters in the game and for people who really know what they want.
But it's only small aspect of the game as well, neither game making nor game breaking.
Well, crafting and gathering is hugely important to some people. To me, working on proffs and selling my wares is a very big thing. Apart from pvp and roleplaying pretty much the most important to me. It adds a lot to the diversity of alternative gameplay options which is ofc a biggy in a sandbox setting.
And in regard to itemization; the more options the better
To give an example; one of the reasons I quickly got bored of WAR was because of crafting and proffs being pretty shallow. Same with AOC though I had a blast crafting in WOW. I hope they will have some nice meta-challenges to meet in that regard. Stuff to have an incentive to keep working on your skills.
Comments
I honestly wish game devs in fantasy games would spend time with the real version of the weapons their putting into games, mostly you hear them talk about this and that and how you need trade offs. I get that their balancing the game through this but they just show that 98% of the time they have never once used any of these weapons. A spear is a deadly weapon in the hands of a master with it and can kill with such speed and grance that you never see it coming, likewise a two handed sword does not weight 15 lbs and take a year to swing. They weight at most 8 or 9 and if your trained with it you can swing it faster than the eye can track, you can also do many other awsome things with two handed swords. Even two handed axes and hammers swing faster and weight a bit less than they are said to.
You are right. But there is gameplay and balancing to consider for game devs and I think most companies go for balance which means some trade offs.
It's the same thing with stuff like heavy crossbows; in reality an angry peasant with an arbalest could kill any trained and armored knight riding past on his horse from hundreds of yards (hence why it was forbidden in most of Europe at one time) and you'll never see ranged users one shotting other players like that in most MMO's. (Besides, a firing speed of two bolts per minute would annoy most people, I guess).
And of course there is already a natural trade off for two handers; two hander users can't use a shield.
I wonder how weapon balance will pan out in MO. There is the realistic approach and there is the diversity approach which is more in line with most people's wish to be different than the guy next to them and that means making every kind of weapon just as useful but in different situations.
The different kinds of damage is interesting though; in a group you might have two warrior type players, but one might be much more skilled in blunt weapons and the other in piercing/slashing things. When confronted with an undead monster without flesh, that blunt guy would be the most preferable to do the hard hitting I guess.
My brand new bloggity blog.
Im really looking forward to this game now that i have seen that being a crafter attains the the status of a healer with this kind of mechanics a must have person to know .
Weeee im so skilled player I made a steel handle and head!! pew pew pew im owning other people with my sword!! pew pew pew!!! lol get a life and play a game that got the the point of fantasy. Realism is not really working in an MMO.. go outside your home and smell the air instead.
The nerdrage is amazing.
Yes, it SOUNDS great. Implementation will be key here, even a busted UI could kill the feature.
As a side note, i thought i read there was a bit of experimentation (ala SWG) involved in the crafting too. So feasibly, even a like item could be slightly different.
Also, am i understanding that there is not form of damage range (1-30), or DPS (4.5) on items? just good bad, average and so on?
That's kinda cool if so.
Nah, if you read the powerpoint pres, you learn that knowledge of weapon stats is inherent to your experience with that type of weapon by using or making them. To me a sword might read "mediocre damage" while to you, as the experienced swordsman and part-time weaponsmith that you are, there is much more detailed info in the tooltip. (And not only materials matter, also the experience of the crafter influences the stats).
No no, i got that point. but it still read as if all weapons only get a rating such as "low, med, high" instead of DPS and damage ranges.
I was looking froward to this, if it was indeed this way.
Mrbloodworth, hey are you already bored of Age of Conan now? hahah
Yes, it SOUNDS great. Implementation will be key here, even a busted UI could kill the feature.
As a side note, i thought i read there was a bit of experimentation (ala SWG) involved in the crafting too. So feasibly, even a like item could be slightly different.
Also, am i understanding that there is not form of damage range (1-30), or DPS (4.5) on items? just good bad, average and so on?
That's kinda cool if so.
Nah, if you read the powerpoint pres, you learn that knowledge of weapon stats is inherent to your experience with that type of weapon by using or making them. To me a sword might read "mediocre damage" while to you, as the experienced swordsman and part-time weaponsmith that you are, there is much more detailed info in the tooltip. (And not only materials matter, also the experience of the crafter influences the stats).
No no, i got that point. but it still read as if all weapons only get a rating such as "low, med, high" instead of DPS and damage ranges.
I was looking froward to this, if it was indeed this way.
Mrbloodworth, hey are you already bored of Age of Conan now? hahah
What?
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Yes, it SOUNDS great. Implementation will be key here, even a busted UI could kill the feature.
As a side note, i thought i read there was a bit of experimentation (ala SWG) involved in the crafting too. So feasibly, even a like item could be slightly different.
Also, am i understanding that there is not form of damage range (1-30), or DPS (4.5) on items? just good bad, average and so on?
That's kinda cool if so.
Nah, if you read the powerpoint pres, you learn that knowledge of weapon stats is inherent to your experience with that type of weapon by using or making them. To me a sword might read "mediocre damage" while to you, as the experienced swordsman and part-time weaponsmith that you are, there is much more detailed info in the tooltip. (And not only materials matter, also the experience of the crafter influences the stats).
No no, i got that point. but it still read as if all weapons only get a rating such as "low, med, high" instead of DPS and damage ranges.
I was looking froward to this, if it was indeed this way.
Mrbloodworth, hey are you already bored of Age of Conan now? hahah
What?
Seems you got a fan, Bloodworth ...
*grins*
My brand new bloggity blog.
I look foward to this crafting system. The Church approves.
Yes, it SOUNDS great. Implementation will be key here, even a busted UI could kill the feature.
As a side note, i thought i read there was a bit of experimentation (ala SWG) involved in the crafting too. So feasibly, even a like item could be slightly different.
Also, am i understanding that there is not form of damage range (1-30), or DPS (4.5) on items? just good bad, average and so on?
That's kinda cool if so.
Nah, if you read the powerpoint pres, you learn that knowledge of weapon stats is inherent to your experience with that type of weapon by using or making them. To me a sword might read "mediocre damage" while to you, as the experienced swordsman and part-time weaponsmith that you are, there is much more detailed info in the tooltip. (And not only materials matter, also the experience of the crafter influences the stats).
No no, i got that point. but it still read as if all weapons only get a rating such as "low, med, high" instead of DPS and damage ranges.
I was looking froward to this, if it was indeed this way.
Until you know weapontry, you character's skill determines what information you can actully see about the weapon...!
___________________________
- Knowledge is power, ive been in school for 28 years!
Yes, it SOUNDS great. Implementation will be key here, even a busted UI could kill the feature.
As a side note, i thought i read there was a bit of experimentation (ala SWG) involved in the crafting too. So feasibly, even a like item could be slightly different.
Also, am i understanding that there is not form of damage range (1-30), or DPS (4.5) on items? just good bad, average and so on?
That's kinda cool if so.
Nah, if you read the powerpoint pres, you learn that knowledge of weapon stats is inherent to your experience with that type of weapon by using or making them. To me a sword might read "mediocre damage" while to you, as the experienced swordsman and part-time weaponsmith that you are, there is much more detailed info in the tooltip. (And not only materials matter, also the experience of the crafter influences the stats).
No no, i got that point. but it still read as if all weapons only get a rating such as "low, med, high" instead of DPS and damage ranges.
I was looking froward to this, if it was indeed this way.
Until you know weapontry, you character's skill determines what information you can actully see about the weapon...!
Yeah, but his wishes are granted. It seems there won't be any absolute numbers in the tooltips according to the pp presentation.
My brand new bloggity blog.
--
/thread
Remember, your advantage lies in your opponent's weakness (J)
I just updated the first page of the thread with more information on crafting if you are interested but I will post it here also for convenience. This is from the mortalonline forums from the dev working on crafting.
Yes, but that's just the crafting. The entire process is of course different depending on what items or material groups we are talking about, but in general, it will work like this:
1. Gathering/farming/mining etc
You collect resources from nature, the quantity (and sometimes quality) depending on your skills and tools. For instance, you collect Wolf Teeth from dead wolves. Or Heamatite from sedimentary rocks.
2. Refining/combining etc
You (or someone else) then refines the raw materials collected during the first step. This requires skills, tools and often a workbench or a workshop. It often involves combining different raw materials and adding different substances. Usually, only the quantity of the refining is affected by skills and tools, but there are some cases where the quality of the refined material will differ. For instance, the teeth you collected may be used to produce Emalj (a hard teeth substance). Or you use the Haematite to produce Pig Iron. Both of these refined materials can be used in crafting, however Pig Iron is very brittle and is usually further refined (into for instance Steel of varying qualities).
3. Crafting
The crafting process itself is very different depending on what you want to craft, but in general you need two different skill-sets: One for the "type" and one for the "material". To make a Steel Sword Blade, something like both your Blacksmithing > Weaponsmithing > Bladesmithing skill and your Metallurgy > Metalworking > Steel would be involved. Here your skills, tools and supplementary ingredients all affect the quality (not the quantity) of the outcome. You will also need a handle for your sword blade. You can either make it yourself, for instance from the Emalj (if you have the skills, tools and resources) or let someone else do it for you. Finally, in the last process the pieces need to be assembled.
4. Repairing
When your sword is used, it will loose Durability. Loosing Durability doesn't simply mean it will break at one point, it means it will slowly get dull and loose balance. Or rather, the materials can actually be of different Durability Type ranging from the ones that will let your sword keep its edge until the very last point of Durability, to those that will become dull after only a few strikes although they won't actually break for long.
You can learn some simple skills connected to your Swordsmanship skill to keep your sword in good shape, meaning you can rather easily repair it. However, as long as it's not being repaired properly by a real crafter, it will loose some of its Max Durability each time. (And even a great crafter will steal a point or two).
5. Reverse Engineering and Recycling
If you give your sword to another player (or he takes it by force), he may take it back to his workshop and try to reverse engineer the design, or simply try to melt it down to take care of the resources. The chances of understanding the design (learning how to craft the type yourself), and the quantity of extracted material will be dependent on the same skills that were used in making the sword.
Not everything can be revealed by reverse engineering a crafted item though. You may learn what materials were used in making it, and you may learn how to make the type yourself - but some item parts will not only let you use 1 or 2 resources, they will also let you adjust the ratio between those. This, as a copy cat, you will have to experiment with yourself.
I am very excited about crafting in MO, I think it's heading in the right direction. As long as the game does not become a gankfest and the penalties for anti social behaviour are in place then I think it has very real possibilities to claim the MMO crown.
Please tell me what you believe the point of fantasy games are first. Trolling games you apparently dont like is a much better use of time, right? I guess things are pretty boring in AoC.
To have a lot of options to make a weapon or gear that's exactly what you want for your class/role is a nice aspect of a game.
I hope it looks nice as well.
It's nice for the crafters in the game and for people who really know what they want.
But it's only small aspect of the game as well, neither game making nor game breaking.
Cast your vote: The importance of character customisation
Well, crafting and gathering is hugely important to some people. To me, working on proffs and selling my wares is a very big thing. Apart from pvp and roleplaying pretty much the most important to me. It adds a lot to the diversity of alternative gameplay options which is ofc a biggy in a sandbox setting.
And in regard to itemization; the more options the better
To give an example; one of the reasons I quickly got bored of WAR was because of crafting and proffs being pretty shallow. Same with AOC though I had a blast crafting in WOW. I hope they will have some nice meta-challenges to meet in that regard. Stuff to have an incentive to keep working on your skills.
My brand new bloggity blog.