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How did SOE screw those up so badly?
Sneakers05
Member Posts: 316
Everquest 2
Vanguard
Pirates of the burning sea
I know some of you will say well EQ2 and Vanguard ROCK now, they should of rocked at release or even a couple months after release, it took vanguard almost two years to get to acceptable
http://helpourfuture.blogspot.com/
save our future.
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Comments
Do you need a detailed list of how they screwed them up or you just saying?
BTW SOE didn't screw up PotBS, PotBS screwed itself.
I didn't like EQ2 from release, played for about 6 months and found the game very linear and confining.
Still playing Vanguard and have since release. I doubt it would have survived if SoE hadn't picked it up and invested a lot of time in bug and performance fixes.
Vanguard is the best PvE MMO available in my opinion.
I haven't played Everquest 2 or the Pirates of the Burning Sea. But I did play Vanguard's free trial. The parlay system, or whatever it was called, was interesting for a while, until I got to a point where I wasn't getting quest updates from talking to people. It got so bad that I was going between 2 NPC's trying to get the quest to update that I just gave up on the game. Talk about frustrating. The combat was fun, and the game looked pretty for the most part (a bit bland in the starting isle in my opinion), but the cards I could have done without, or atleast let me get through the beginning of the game blasting stuff before you start making me sit down and play cards all day.
Shrug. So you're unhappy with the fact that vanguard and EQ2 are solid games now? You're still upset with events that occured more than 3 years ago? If you dont like SOE, dont buy their games
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)
Shrug. So you're unhappy with the fact that vanguard and EQ2 are solid games now? You're still upset with events that occured more than 3 years ago? If you dont like SOE, dont buy their games
Vanguard is not a solid game, it is acceptable, not solid. EQ2 is a solid game now, but I am angry with the fact that EQ2 should be up there against WoW in popularity and players. I just do not understand how SOE could screw up the sequel to one of the most popular well known mmorpgs.
http://helpourfuture.blogspot.com/
save our future.
They did not force you to do diplo. You could have skipped it completely if you wanted. Some people don't start it until they are max level in everything else first.
EQ2 - wanted to push technology more than gameplay and it backfired horribly, also should have delayed a couple months instead of moving up a couple weeks to beat WoW to launch. SOE has done a great job improving EQ2 since.
Vanguard - was not made by SOE, Vanguard's failure is a result of poor leadership by Brad McQuaid. SOE has done a great job improving Vanguard, although very slowly.
PotBS - another MMO that SOE didnt develop yet they get blamed for it. SOE took a very hands off approach with Sigil and Flying Lab and look where it got SOE.
Well glad to see you are ok Sneakers....I haven't seen a troll post for a couple days from you taking the time to bash Vanguard or other games. Thought maybe you left the forums or something...what a shame that would be.
This.
These SOE Trolls realy should learn about what they are talking about.
There is Plenty of Reason to hate SOE but Blameing them for Vanguard and Potbs is Silly.
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
Samuel Adams
You cant forget about Star Wars Galaxies! They committed suicide with the Combat Upgrade and New Game Experience! especially after the NGE, they totally f*cked up the timeline!
When SWTOR releases, SWG will be able to RIP
What he wants to say "probably" is that if SOE cared enough and used some money and effort to into fixing stuff and and also listened to players and used some brains everything they make wouldnt turn to crap in the first place. I think they need to fire some people and hire new employees because the ones they got now isnt doing their jobs or dont seem to have any inovating thinking at all. The might aswell switch programs and start working with gamemaker and have 1 employee. Because the way they use their money atm is a big waste.
I would replace Vanguard with SWG.
TBH...SWG should be at the top of SOE screwups as it is an acedemic study on what NOT to do with an MMO.
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Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
This is the only thing I blame SOE for. I think they learned their lesson, and so did a lot of other game devs.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
This.
These SOE Trolls realy should learn about what they are talking about.
There is Plenty of Reason to hate SOE but Blameing them for Vanguard and Potbs is Silly.
I was going to say the same thing. SOE did not develop Vangaurd or PotBS.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Because Lucasarts had nothing to do with that. LA never makes a bad game or movie or any sort of bad decision. Because it makes more sense from Sony's perspective to tinker with a solid game like SWG (at that time) then to tinker with a floundering game like EQ2 (at that time).
It's not like LA isn't already getting their hands all over TOR
This is the only thing I blame SOE for. I think they learned their lesson, and so did a lot of other game devs.
Not really...atleast in regards to SWG.
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Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
Because Lucasarts had nothing to do with that. LA never makes a bad game or movie or any sort of bad decision. Because it makes more sense from Sony's perspective to tinker with a solid game like SWG (at that time) then to tinker with a floundering game like EQ2 (at that time).
It's not like LA isn't already getting their hands all over TOR
LA's sin was trusting SOE and approving the changes.
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Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
SIgil was the developer and downfall for Vanguard
Flying Labs was/is the developer for POTBS
EQ2 is a great game, which only downfall is they wanted a more technologically advanced game (for their time) and was launched just prior to WoW (3 weeks)
SWG was the only fault of SOE, but LA had their hands HEAVILY in it and was a part of the downfall (if not the majority of it)
Matrix is another game which SOE did NOT develope, and was given to them to take over developement, but it was already a lost cause
So, in part, SOE haters really need to learn about the history of a game before bashing them
Because Lucasarts had nothing to do with that. LA never makes a bad game or movie or any sort of bad decision. Because it makes more sense from Sony's perspective to tinker with a solid game like SWG (at that time) then to tinker with a floundering game like EQ2 (at that time).
It's not like LA isn't already getting their hands all over TOR
LA's sin was trusting SOE and approving the changes.
do you blame an employee when he goes to a supervisor with an idea, and the supervisor impliments it, no matter how good or bad it is? No, it's the supervisor's job and responsibility to use good ideas and bad ideas.....becuase soe wanted to try a different approach, it was still LAs responsibility to have the foresight to say yay or nay....and with people like "I don't like to read" Macintyre running the show, i place the blame firmly on LA's shoulders
Because Lucasarts had nothing to do with that. LA never makes a bad game or movie or any sort of bad decision. Because it makes more sense from Sony's perspective to tinker with a solid game like SWG (at that time) then to tinker with a floundering game like EQ2 (at that time).
It's not like LA isn't already getting their hands all over TOR
LA's sin was trusting SOE and approving the changes.
I agree! SoE was the developer for SWG and Bioware IS the developer for TOR. LA is a partner for them. They dont have their own people developing the game them selves, writing the code, ect... LA may get some say in things, but it still comes down to the developer!
Because Lucasarts had nothing to do with that. LA never makes a bad game or movie or any sort of bad decision. Because it makes more sense from Sony's perspective to tinker with a solid game like SWG (at that time) then to tinker with a floundering game like EQ2 (at that time).
It's not like LA isn't already getting their hands all over TOR
LA's sin was trusting SOE and approving the changes.
I agree! SoE was the developer for SWG and Bioware IS the developer for TOR. LA is a partner for them. They dont have their own people developing the game them selves, writing the code, ect... LA may get some say in things, but it still comes down to the developer!
LA holds the Star Wars IP so that means the developers make the game LA wants or they start over. LA may not be developing the game but don't be so naive to believe they are sitting in the background doing nothing.
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You wouldn't understand
Because Lucasarts had nothing to do with that. LA never makes a bad game or movie or any sort of bad decision. Because it makes more sense from Sony's perspective to tinker with a solid game like SWG (at that time) then to tinker with a floundering game like EQ2 (at that time).
It's not like LA isn't already getting their hands all over TOR
LA's sin was trusting SOE and approving the changes.
I agree! SoE was the developer for SWG and Bioware IS the developer for TOR. LA is a partner for them. They dont have their own people developing the game them selves, writing the code, ect... LA may get some say in things, but it still comes down to the developer!
apparantly you have no idea how LA works.....
Because Lucasarts had nothing to do with that. LA never makes a bad game or movie or any sort of bad decision. Because it makes more sense from Sony's perspective to tinker with a solid game like SWG (at that time) then to tinker with a floundering game like EQ2 (at that time).
It's not like LA isn't already getting their hands all over TOR
LA's sin was trusting SOE and approving the changes.
do you blame an employee when he goes to a supervisor with an idea, and the supervisor impliments it, no matter how good or bad it is? No, it's the supervisor's job and responsibility to use good ideas and bad ideas.....becuase soe wanted to try a different approach, it was still LAs responsibility to have the foresight to say yay or nay....and with people like "I don't like to read" Macintyre running the show, i place the blame firmly on LA's shoulders
SOE was the company LA entrusted to develop the MMO...SOE should have known better...and by the statements from the developers who were behind the NGE they did know better. They sold the NGE bill of goods to LA and they approved the change. Both are culpable but SOE IMHO were the MMO professionals that failed completely.
edit: for typo
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Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
EQ2 is actually pretty good when it released if you could overlooked the bug. The game was pretty damn hard when it first came out. I remembered it took me like a week or so to get to level 20 and most soloable monter was annoying enough that you would perfered to have someone helping you out. The town was very nicely done and EQ2 even have a very nice and intricate crafting system. EQ2 turned to crap when they stop trying to make the game they envision and try to simplify and in many ways copy wow in a desperate hope to gain more playerbase. Suddenly one by one, all the things I liked about EQ2 starting to disapear. First they make the mob easier to kill to the point where before we need a group of at least 3 or 4 people with dedicated tank and healer to kill any heroic mob to having my friend (druid) and I (wizard) pulling 2 or 3 groups of heroics together and simply aoe them down.
Crafting gone to hell also when they dropped the multiple steps and component require from other profession to the simple wow start and finish crafting system.
Then they pissed on EQ2 corpse some more when they added pvp to a game that obviously doesn't take pvp balance into consideration. I remember when pvp was first introduced, naked level 25 bezerker could simply run around and kill a fully gears level 20 party.
Simply pot, EQ2 failed so horribly later on was because Sony lost sight of what they are trying to make and decided to emulate the success of other.
Vanguard on the other hand is a totally different story. I think the biggest problem with vanguard other than the god awful launch is that they try too hard to be original and putting in stuff to compete with wow instead of doing what they be doing. Like wow, their pvp system was so god awful and imbalanced that you wonder why they even bother to put it in the game in the first place. Furthermore, nothing in vanguard pisses me off more than their so called seamless world that practically split the game into something like 100 different instance except in vanguard you don't call them instance, you called them chunks. So unlike wow and EQ2 where you zone in an instance do what you need to do and zone out. Even if there is a lot of instancing and zone or what ever. People didn't really care much cause once you're loaded, you just do what you need to do and zone out of there. In vanguard, because of the stupid chunks system, I can see a monster or player standing practically right next to me and I can't do a bloody thing to them because they are on a different chunk than I am. To make matter worse, the micro loading that you have to experience every time you cross into another chunk is annoying as hell, especially if you are moving around in the process of killing your mob and accidentally crosses into another chunk. Now you are frozen for like two to ten seconds while the mod would either glitch and go back to it spawn point or they can continue being the crap out of you while you are loading.
Out of all the game though, vanguard is both my favorite and most hated game. I love their crafting system, diplomacy, pve, and class selection. I really hate their animation, chunk system, pvp, and useless stats point system you get for leveling your character. Although I must say sony didn't screw vanguard over. If anything. If it wasn't for Sony stepping in, Vanguard might never even launch in the first place.
In short, most mmo failed because of two reason. They either release it before it is ready or lost sight of what they are trying to make and turn it to something else.
Two of thoes are not made by SOE, and one to this day, is not SOE devlopment.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
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How are you?" -Me