QUESTION: Quote: Originally Posted by Xridnasa: - What's a "grocery store"? Is that like McDonald's? - ANSWER: Quote: Originally Posted by sidimazz: - Kind of, just without the rapist.
WoW Clone is always going to be that term that the popular crowd uses when describing competition to the current status quo.
In the journalism world we have two terms to describe people, 'elitests' and 'populists'. Elitests are the hardcore people described in the article, the meta gamers if you will. Populists, are the sheep; people who follow along with anything accepted by the masses because the masses find nothing wrong with the current system. The majority of the WoW community, if you will.
Now I have only read about half the threads and some people still don't get how these things work. Yes, the term is in itself a bastardization with no inherent substance to back it up, but the thing is people who put value in the word give it substance that drives it forward. Given time the people who use the word will diminish and thus the value of the term itself will lose steam and eventually fade.
To argue about the term WoW clone is self defeating. Let the populists have their term. As with any fad, the populists move on to the next big thing, and the rest is left for history to sort out.
It's so much easier to type "WoW clone" than it is to type "quest-based level-grinder with generic fantasy classes and races." And since most MMO players are familiar with WoW, there's little chance of me being misunderstood. I may call someone a "bitch," but i don't literally mean she's a female dog.
But if you say RPG game, its even shorter to type, you will be just as accurate and understood by even more people.
"RPG game" can include anything from single-player console RPGs to MMORPGs that don't include the standard feature set as popularized by WoW. "WoW clone" gets the point across perfectly. It may be technically inaccurate, but I'm not anal enough to care.
And on these forums, some pedant is guaranteed to whine about it, which is a bonus.
Got more time this time around, so here's an addition:
The article states that "community talk" works for the comununity, and that is big misunderstanding. You can't be possibly thinking that words "fanboi", "hater", "noob", "pwn", "epic fail" and the like were originally meant for a nice conversaiton? or for a productive discussion? For crying out loud - those are insults. They harm the community, and were never meant for anything else.
How can they not be missused? Aside from the fact that an insult never gets a point across (other than the obvious "I hate you" point), how many insults do you know that are always thrown at valid target? Do you think everyone who was even once called a fool is actually a fool?
Is there even a point in fighting for a correct use of an insult?
Innovative? Next gen? - those are just advertising words. Can you immagine a banner "Try our obsolete and boring game! With nothing new to the genre, and no good content at all!"? Those were born to be missused.
If community want's to be community and not a pack of wolves biting at eachother's throats and howling at full moon (Read: hyping-up new wow-killer) it should avoid simplified and popularised terms, those never get a point across (aside from generalisation, where the do work, although generalisation itself is often missused).
If that's a war of words we seek and not an exchange of oppinions, then all hail the "net talk", for we are at our destination, enjoy if you can, suffer if you must.
I don't agree with this, I use "WoW Clone" to describe these hundreds of mmos that use the same "Click to Attack", and watch the fight style combat. That bores me to tears. WoW was the first one to notably do it, as it followed a lot of other generic systems too. "Generic RPG" systems, I personally like WoW, but I would love to see more real-time combat MMORPG. These Psuedo-turn based games so many companies seem to be making are getting extremely old to me.
You sir, are the exact people I am talking about...
Well first, before you and that other guy go insulting me, I never said WoW was the first. It's simply a slang term to refer to that gamestyle when I use it, I never said it was correct.
"RPG game" can include anything from single-player console RPGs to MMORPGs that don't include the standard feature set as popularized by WoW. "WoW clone" gets the point across perfectly. It may be technically inaccurate, but I'm not anal enough to care.
Actually the single player games also tend to include the feature set that people tend to complain about (heck, just read this thread), which is why its better to use RPG game. The use of WoW clone really confuses the issue. It leads to funny misperceptions about why the mechanics exist and why they aren't changing.
Its as if i called all FPS games Quake Clones, and how come someone can't make a FPS but without cloning quake, with all the guns, aiming, reaction time based, first person view. And then maybe i go on to argue that people are only cloning quake because Quake was popular when it came out, and that the game makers should innovate and not stick to the same ole first person view/real time reaction formula.
I really enjoyed this article and agree with much of it. However, I do not agree with your definition of "hardcore":
"The truth of hardcore is that it is about the amount of hours put in, not what people enjoy doing in those hours."
My definition of hardcore is players who are exceptionally dedicated to playing a game, not in terms of hours spent, but in terms of content and/or attitude.
Me, I play a lot, but I do not consider myself "hardcore." My sister plans her playing time around guild raid schedules -- *that's* hardcore, imo. People who are critical of other players' character builds, gear, or playing style are also hardcore (in that I think they are taking a game very seriously). I don't think of "hardcore" as a pejorative description, just that it refers to someone who is really much more dedicated to a particular game than the average player, the "hardcore" percentage of any MMO is probably only about 5 to 15% of an MMO's player base.
I guess I just generally use the word "hardcore" in the sense of evident player attitude toward the game in question, something that may -- or may not -- be reflected by the time spent playing.
"RPG game" can include anything from single-player console RPGs to MMORPGs that don't include the standard feature set as popularized by WoW. "WoW clone" gets the point across perfectly. It may be technically inaccurate, but I'm not anal enough to care.
Actually the single player games also tend to include the feature set that people tend to complain about (heck, just read this thread), which is why its better to use RPG game. The use of WoW clone really confuses the issue. It leads to funny misperceptions about why the mechanics exist and why they aren't changing.
Because Final Fantasy was totally a quest grinder. Man, those action bars were great with the NES mouse.
Never played WoW, but WoW-Clone is missused in some ways.
What would be WoW-Clone in my view:
1) Standard Human, Orc, Elves etc. fantasy world
2) Same combat/interaction/quest/etc. system
3) No real innovation
maybe 4) Graphichs.
You can get pass with two of those kinda. Still it would one more fantasy mmo, as Sci-Fi WoW-Clone could be something new ;D
Clone is something which totaly lacks any innovation, it's just trying to take everything in WoW and make carbon copy of it. Something which just try to be as profitable as possible and will fail in it.
So, I wouldn't call AoC for example a WoW-clone, it has different combat system, it's graphics aren't cartoony and world isn't high-fantasy. Quest system might be simirial, but it's bit too normal for current day mmos...
I wanted to point out that "wow clone" doesn't necessarily refer to the elements of the game but rather the community it creates. WoW creates a community where people tend to use you to complete their needed quest, then ditch you when they're done because they care only about their own interests or the interests of their guilds. Games like EQ or DAoC didn't carry this in the community NEARLY as much. WoW clones, to me, are games that create this atmosphere. However, with the way most MMO's are today, it could be blamed on structure, and not WoW. WoW however was sort of the first to create this in communities.
ROFL. I loved this article. So very true on every single point. Especially about the use of the term "WoW Clone".
If a game has an interface, combat and spells and appeals to a larger audience than what you can fit into an underused and darkened basement, it's deemed a "WoW clone". Such generalisations are ridiculous.
A Lexus, a BMW and a Ferrari all have 4 wheels, a steering wheel and an engine. Are they "clones" of the first car? Technically yes. But does anyone care enough to shun such cars? No. Because regardless of the fact that the latest car designs evolved from the original concept of a 4 stroke engine automobile, some people prefer one over the other. Why? Because some people are able to recognise and appreciate the unique aspects of any one particular product over the similarities that it has with another.
If having to live up to such expectations of the term "Innovation" means that an MMO has to throw out every single tried and tested concept just to be seen to be different, then I'll take an evolved game over a so-called "innovative" one any day.
I wanted to point out that "wow clone" doesn't necessarily refer to the elements of the game but rather the community it creates. WoW creates a community where people tend to use you to complete their needed quest, then ditch you when they're done because they care only about their own interests or the interests of their guilds. Games like EQ or DAoC didn't carry this in the community NEARLY as much. WoW clones, to me, are games that create this atmosphere. However, with the way most MMO's are today, it could be blamed on structure, and not WoW. WoW however was sort of the first to create this in communities.
The real key to both the words and the terminology is captured by each person's description of community, which can be very subjective. I can look at any one of the terms provided, and it probably has a very distinctive definition based on my background.
For example, out of the 100+ post on this thread, I could only find one reference to Lineage or Lineage 2. We've had members of that community leave it for WoW, or other games, then return to the world of Lineage. I could argue after having played several games including WoW, LoTR, etc., that my preference is Lineage2 based on what I've experienced. Would I be considered a hardcore player of that game because of my perspective?
In my mind there are several different types of players out there, and each player brings with them a different set of desires or wishes when they play a game. There are some players who go from game to game, never finding a home. There are those who find a game they like and never leave it. And then there are those players who venture out from time to time from their favorite game to see what else is going on in world, but eventually return home.
I've been playing RPGs since the days of the Tandy 1000 and the early Apple MacIntosh computers. In the late 90s when Lineage came along, it provided a venue where I could interact with other players in a group-minded scenarios. I was stationed overseas at the time and it was a great outlet for me.
When Lineage2 was released our Pledge from Lineage for the most part migrated to the new game and formed a Clan. Amazingly enough, after five years in Lineage2, we still have some original members. But for the most part, most have left for other pastures, including WoW. Many who went to WoW when it was released have since returned citing many reasons. Chief among those reasons was that it was too easy to achieve the highest levels of the game.
Does that mean that Lineage/Lineage2 players are "hardcore" because they thrive on the mind-numbing grind every day, sometimes for years on end? That, I believe, is in the eyes of the beholder. For me, I continue to play because of the friendships that have been formed over the years. Lineage2 has become very much a social hour (or ten) enjoyed with friends, like hanging out at the local pub.
I am thankful that the MMO industry has provided a plethora of venues for people like me who enjoy the community that we choose to stay in. The language used changes with the times, much like earlier references to "teabagger." This does not change the OPs article, just proves the point that with MMOs, evolution continues, and the language along with it.
I agree that Sandbox and Failure are mis used a LOT.
The term Innovation i disagree.I think MANY know innovation and when they ask for it ,they actually mean it.Innovation is easy to point out...VG card game,FFXI and the sub class system,Renkai system.The Chocobo a pet/mount that you actually raise from an egg and nurture it to it's abilities,so many other innovations in FFXI like Besieged or Campaign battles.The Mentor system utilized in EQ2.The security tag by Blizzard,albeit not actually game related but still an innovation,i believe most people realize what innovation is.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Awsome list, i agree with it completly. The fact is that people seem to get into arguments over everything instade of keeping an open mind and discusing things.
+1 WoW clone bugs me the most...indeed ppls who got their MMO baptism from WoW seems to think every MMO that features mobs to kill, quest to do and weapons to craft is a WoW Clone. WoW may have combine the features successfully and in a way where it is difficult to beat, but it doesn't mean they "invented" the feature, but try and put that through a WoW "fanboi"'s head is more difficult that trying to understand Sarah Palin's speech.
Interestingly enough, it ain't just people who enjoy WoW or cut their MMO teeth on WoW that misuse this term. Likewise, it's not just people who play WoW who misue the term "fanboi"
Can I throw in the word Troll? Cause it seems like troll is nearly replacing hater. Anyone who starts to raise questions that may lead to some flaws of a game pointed out they are called trolls. From what I remember. Trolls are people who either A.) Live under a bridge. or B.) Make nonsense posts just to take up space and/or get flames/insults from people.
So true! Why don't you take your fanboi self back to your little unpolished epic-fail WoW-Clone while I play my innovative 1337 WoW-killer with all my hardcore guildies. Sandbox FTW!!!
Can I be in teh clubz now?
Cinori Aluben - CSM6 2011 Fix The Little Things First! www.littlethingsfirst.com EVE-Online
lol how true as per the article. I would be even more interested in learning "who the hell thought up some of these terms?"
Yeah I'd like to see that too, and the history of MMO acronyms, where they started. Each acronym with their respectful game. Because I know a lot started in games even before UO, some in UO, but some acronyms don't work in UO and I'd like to know all that.
So true! Why don't you take your fanboi self back to your little unpolished epic-fail WoW-Clone while I play my innovative 1337 WoW-killer with all my hardcore guildies. Sandbox FTW!!!
Can I be in teh clubz now?
HAHAHAHAHA... ahhh I love people like you. So funny.
LMFAO! This post went south of heaven fast didnt it? Geesh, for those who dont know...ITS JUST A GAME!! A GAME!! ITS NOT REAL!! ITS A GAME!!! Lol, morons, I swear...
STRONGLY disagree with #2. A game with quests and levels IS a Themepark game. A quest IS a "ride" you jump on, with a developer built perrogative that you must complete in order to recieve a reward of some sort. Similarly, a LEVEL based game is exactly the same thing, Themepark style gameplay.
I agree that Sandbox gets thrown around a lot, in my opinion. In fact, terms seem to constantly get redefined in this industry by people like you.
In my opinion, Ultima Online pre-trammel was the ONLY definition of an "MMORPG" back in the day of 1997 and games like Diablo and then Everquest that came soon after, I considered them "MMOs". Then somehow games like Everquest and WoW began being defined as "MMORPGs". It's at this time that I began making references to Ultima Online pre-trammel(1997-1999) as a sandbox because it was so drastically different than the rest.
All of a sudden EVE, SWG and console games like Fallout 3 came out and started referring to themselves as a "sandbox".
Now we have to redefine what Ultima Online pre-trammel was again and I refer to it today as a "MMOWS (RPG)" Massive Multiplayer Online World Simulator (Role Playing Game)".
The fact is that UO pre-T simply cannot be compared to any other game that has come after it. If a game does not have at least ALL these following elements it simply can't be compared:
Open NON-Instanced world, no loading screens whatsoever, no "private quests" where others can't find you.
NON-Instanced player housing, again NO loading screens ANYWHERE, houses should have the ability to be made public or private.
Open PvP with REAL consequences. Meaning you have the option of killing an innocent player if you want, but you will be held accountable just like in real life. The Red/Blue/Gray flagging system worked great in UO pre-trammel and no other game has truly perfected it or made it better since then. Only 1 game has tried it in a similar fashio in 10 years and that's Darkfall, but DF's alliance system fails and so does Friendly Fire+FPS. It fails for casual PvE groupers and people who get sploited by other random pew pew groups. Mortal Online plans to follow Darkfall's footsteps here unfortunately and it too will fail. This is one element that pushes these games to the far ultra hardcore base and everyone else gets alienated. Good luck to both dev teams trying to compete for that small share of people.
Open loot, but taking from an innocent corpse can flag you.
SKILL based progression as opposed to level based. In real life there are no "levels". Your experience in a true MMOWS should not matter based on how much XP or mobs/bosses you've farmed. It should be measured by how long you have practiced on a certain craft, spell school, weapon or other skill. And just like in real life, you may forget things so your skill may decrease if you do not practice it. Many people constantly confuse reference to a "skill based game" with meaning how fast you can twitch your mouse or how good your aimbot is. No, that's not the case. A game with a level based system simply cannot be refered to an MMOWS or even a Sandbox game for that matter. Floating level numbers above your head is pure BS, it's an old and dated way of measuring things and should be left for the Themepark genre and people that don't have time to dedicate to things. One should not be able to tell another person's skill by looking at a floating number above their head and this is the only way that it can work in a non-instanced open pvp world or noobs will constantly get slaughtered.
And finally, a true MMOWS is one where you enter the world with a feeling that there is endless possibilities and adventure. You should not have a "crosshair" in front of your face 24/7 being reminded that this is a "PvP game". There is absolutely no need for quests or ANYTHING telling you "what to do". The beauty of UO pre-trammel and the thing that attracted so many different people to it was that it was a "neutral setting", a true sandbox MMOWS where you log in and pretty much live a virtual life. You build a house if you want, if someone tries to steal from you, you kill them, you should be able to take over/control towns/cities or build them from the ground up, there sould be endless crafting opportunities and there should be no need to EVER pick up a weapon to "have fun" in an MMOWS if you don't want to. In a true MMOWS there will be TONS of FLUFF because without fluff, all you are left with is a cut and dry "pew pew game" like Darkfall where the only goal is to be a zombie footsoldier for some large power hungry guild wanting to control every city.
These are the core elements that a sandbox MMOWS game must have, it's the solid foundation to start from. Now, a game surely could come in and add many more elements on top of this. But if it's missing one of these above, you just cannot call it an MMOWS. There will have to be another name for it, perhaps MMOFPS(like Darkfall). Mortal Online is the only game that gives me hope that this dream will actually happen(since they tout real player housing unlike Darkfall), but a true MMOWS needs to drop the FPS+Friendly fire/Crosshair in your face 24/7 bs. I would hope that a company out there is brave enough to make a truly beautiful MMOWS, in 10 years we've really only had 1 and that was Ultima Online pre-trammel which died a decade ago. People are sick and tired of the Themepark games and 99.95% of MMORPGs out there are Themeparks. ENOUGH!!!!!
Comments
well said Jon ... well said
I agree with everything
QUESTION:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xridnasa:
-
What's a "grocery store"? Is that like McDonald's?
-
ANSWER:
Quote:
Originally Posted by sidimazz:
-
Kind of, just without the rapist.
WoW Clone is always going to be that term that the popular crowd uses when describing competition to the current status quo.
In the journalism world we have two terms to describe people, 'elitests' and 'populists'. Elitests are the hardcore people described in the article, the meta gamers if you will. Populists, are the sheep; people who follow along with anything accepted by the masses because the masses find nothing wrong with the current system. The majority of the WoW community, if you will.
Now I have only read about half the threads and some people still don't get how these things work. Yes, the term is in itself a bastardization with no inherent substance to back it up, but the thing is people who put value in the word give it substance that drives it forward. Given time the people who use the word will diminish and thus the value of the term itself will lose steam and eventually fade.
To argue about the term WoW clone is self defeating. Let the populists have their term. As with any fad, the populists move on to the next big thing, and the rest is left for history to sort out.
But if you say RPG game, its even shorter to type, you will be just as accurate and understood by even more people.
"RPG game" can include anything from single-player console RPGs to MMORPGs that don't include the standard feature set as popularized by WoW. "WoW clone" gets the point across perfectly. It may be technically inaccurate, but I'm not anal enough to care.
And on these forums, some pedant is guaranteed to whine about it, which is a bonus.
Got more time this time around, so here's an addition:
The article states that "community talk" works for the comununity, and that is big misunderstanding. You can't be possibly thinking that words "fanboi", "hater", "noob", "pwn", "epic fail" and the like were originally meant for a nice conversaiton? or for a productive discussion? For crying out loud - those are insults. They harm the community, and were never meant for anything else.
How can they not be missused? Aside from the fact that an insult never gets a point across (other than the obvious "I hate you" point), how many insults do you know that are always thrown at valid target? Do you think everyone who was even once called a fool is actually a fool?
Is there even a point in fighting for a correct use of an insult?
Innovative? Next gen? - those are just advertising words. Can you immagine a banner "Try our obsolete and boring game! With nothing new to the genre, and no good content at all!"? Those were born to be missused.
If community want's to be community and not a pack of wolves biting at eachother's throats and howling at full moon (Read: hyping-up new wow-killer) it should avoid simplified and popularised terms, those never get a point across (aside from generalisation, where the do work, although generalisation itself is often missused).
If that's a war of words we seek and not an exchange of oppinions, then all hail the "net talk", for we are at our destination, enjoy if you can, suffer if you must.
You sir, are the exact people I am talking about...
Well first, before you and that other guy go insulting me, I never said WoW was the first. It's simply a slang term to refer to that gamestyle when I use it, I never said it was correct.
Actually the single player games also tend to include the feature set that people tend to complain about (heck, just read this thread), which is why its better to use RPG game. The use of WoW clone really confuses the issue. It leads to funny misperceptions about why the mechanics exist and why they aren't changing.
Its as if i called all FPS games Quake Clones, and how come someone can't make a FPS but without cloning quake, with all the guns, aiming, reaction time based, first person view. And then maybe i go on to argue that people are only cloning quake because Quake was popular when it came out, and that the game makers should innovate and not stick to the same ole first person view/real time reaction formula.
WoW Clone- I don't agree. Some games ARE WoW clones. They have 99% the same gameplay, just slightly different classes and graphics.
Not all games that are labeled WoW clones are, but many are.
I really enjoyed this article and agree with much of it. However, I do not agree with your definition of "hardcore":
My definition of hardcore is players who are exceptionally dedicated to playing a game, not in terms of hours spent, but in terms of content and/or attitude.
Me, I play a lot, but I do not consider myself "hardcore." My sister plans her playing time around guild raid schedules -- *that's* hardcore, imo. People who are critical of other players' character builds, gear, or playing style are also hardcore (in that I think they are taking a game very seriously). I don't think of "hardcore" as a pejorative description, just that it refers to someone who is really much more dedicated to a particular game than the average player, the "hardcore" percentage of any MMO is probably only about 5 to 15% of an MMO's player base.
I guess I just generally use the word "hardcore" in the sense of evident player attitude toward the game in question, something that may -- or may not -- be reflected by the time spent playing.
Actually the single player games also tend to include the feature set that people tend to complain about (heck, just read this thread), which is why its better to use RPG game. The use of WoW clone really confuses the issue. It leads to funny misperceptions about why the mechanics exist and why they aren't changing.
Because Final Fantasy was totally a quest grinder. Man, those action bars were great with the NES mouse.
Great article! A lot of truth in it.
Never played WoW, but WoW-Clone is missused in some ways.
What would be WoW-Clone in my view:
1) Standard Human, Orc, Elves etc. fantasy world
2) Same combat/interaction/quest/etc. system
3) No real innovation
maybe 4) Graphichs.
You can get pass with two of those kinda. Still it would one more fantasy mmo, as Sci-Fi WoW-Clone could be something new ;D
Clone is something which totaly lacks any innovation, it's just trying to take everything in WoW and make carbon copy of it. Something which just try to be as profitable as possible and will fail in it.
So, I wouldn't call AoC for example a WoW-clone, it has different combat system, it's graphics aren't cartoony and world isn't high-fantasy. Quest system might be simirial, but it's bit too normal for current day mmos...
I know for sure what overused words in OP´s article was: I counted:
15x used of: wow
8x used of: World of Warcraft
I wanted to point out that "wow clone" doesn't necessarily refer to the elements of the game but rather the community it creates. WoW creates a community where people tend to use you to complete their needed quest, then ditch you when they're done because they care only about their own interests or the interests of their guilds. Games like EQ or DAoC didn't carry this in the community NEARLY as much. WoW clones, to me, are games that create this atmosphere. However, with the way most MMO's are today, it could be blamed on structure, and not WoW. WoW however was sort of the first to create this in communities.
ROFL. I loved this article. So very true on every single point. Especially about the use of the term "WoW Clone".
If a game has an interface, combat and spells and appeals to a larger audience than what you can fit into an underused and darkened basement, it's deemed a "WoW clone". Such generalisations are ridiculous.
A Lexus, a BMW and a Ferrari all have 4 wheels, a steering wheel and an engine. Are they "clones" of the first car? Technically yes. But does anyone care enough to shun such cars? No. Because regardless of the fact that the latest car designs evolved from the original concept of a 4 stroke engine automobile, some people prefer one over the other. Why? Because some people are able to recognise and appreciate the unique aspects of any one particular product over the similarities that it has with another.
If having to live up to such expectations of the term "Innovation" means that an MMO has to throw out every single tried and tested concept just to be seen to be different, then I'll take an evolved game over a so-called "innovative" one any day.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
The real key to both the words and the terminology is captured by each person's description of community, which can be very subjective. I can look at any one of the terms provided, and it probably has a very distinctive definition based on my background.
For example, out of the 100+ post on this thread, I could only find one reference to Lineage or Lineage 2. We've had members of that community leave it for WoW, or other games, then return to the world of Lineage. I could argue after having played several games including WoW, LoTR, etc., that my preference is Lineage2 based on what I've experienced. Would I be considered a hardcore player of that game because of my perspective?
In my mind there are several different types of players out there, and each player brings with them a different set of desires or wishes when they play a game. There are some players who go from game to game, never finding a home. There are those who find a game they like and never leave it. And then there are those players who venture out from time to time from their favorite game to see what else is going on in world, but eventually return home.
I've been playing RPGs since the days of the Tandy 1000 and the early Apple MacIntosh computers. In the late 90s when Lineage came along, it provided a venue where I could interact with other players in a group-minded scenarios. I was stationed overseas at the time and it was a great outlet for me.
When Lineage2 was released our Pledge from Lineage for the most part migrated to the new game and formed a Clan. Amazingly enough, after five years in Lineage2, we still have some original members. But for the most part, most have left for other pastures, including WoW. Many who went to WoW when it was released have since returned citing many reasons. Chief among those reasons was that it was too easy to achieve the highest levels of the game.
Does that mean that Lineage/Lineage2 players are "hardcore" because they thrive on the mind-numbing grind every day, sometimes for years on end? That, I believe, is in the eyes of the beholder. For me, I continue to play because of the friendships that have been formed over the years. Lineage2 has become very much a social hour (or ten) enjoyed with friends, like hanging out at the local pub.
I am thankful that the MMO industry has provided a plethora of venues for people like me who enjoy the community that we choose to stay in. The language used changes with the times, much like earlier references to "teabagger." This does not change the OPs article, just proves the point that with MMOs, evolution continues, and the language along with it.
Nie article, funny one
I agree with 6 and 9 i disagree with 10.
I agree that Sandbox and Failure are mis used a LOT.
The term Innovation i disagree.I think MANY know innovation and when they ask for it ,they actually mean it.Innovation is easy to point out...VG card game,FFXI and the sub class system,Renkai system.The Chocobo a pet/mount that you actually raise from an egg and nurture it to it's abilities,so many other innovations in FFXI like Besieged or Campaign battles.The Mentor system utilized in EQ2.The security tag by Blizzard,albeit not actually game related but still an innovation,i believe most people realize what innovation is.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Awsome list, i agree with it completly. The fact is that people seem to get into arguments over everything instade of keeping an open mind and discusing things.
Eyþór Á.
Interestingly enough, it ain't just people who enjoy WoW or cut their MMO teeth on WoW that misuse this term. Likewise, it's not just people who play WoW who misue the term "fanboi"
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
Can I throw in the word Troll? Cause it seems like troll is nearly replacing hater. Anyone who starts to raise questions that may lead to some flaws of a game pointed out they are called trolls. From what I remember. Trolls are people who either A.) Live under a bridge. or B.) Make nonsense posts just to take up space and/or get flames/insults from people.
So true! Why don't you take your fanboi self back to your little unpolished epic-fail WoW-Clone while I play my innovative 1337 WoW-killer with all my hardcore guildies. Sandbox FTW!!!
Can I be in teh clubz now?
Cinori Aluben - CSM6 2011
Fix The Little Things First!
www.littlethingsfirst.com
EVE-Online
Yeah I'd like to see that too, and the history of MMO acronyms, where they started. Each acronym with their respectful game. Because I know a lot started in games even before UO, some in UO, but some acronyms don't work in UO and I'd like to know all that.
HAHAHAHAHA... ahhh I love people like you. So funny.
LMFAO! This post went south of heaven fast didnt it? Geesh, for those who dont know...ITS JUST A GAME!! A GAME!! ITS NOT REAL!! ITS A GAME!!! Lol, morons, I swear...
STRONGLY disagree with #2. A game with quests and levels IS a Themepark game. A quest IS a "ride" you jump on, with a developer built perrogative that you must complete in order to recieve a reward of some sort. Similarly, a LEVEL based game is exactly the same thing, Themepark style gameplay.
I agree that Sandbox gets thrown around a lot, in my opinion. In fact, terms seem to constantly get redefined in this industry by people like you.
In my opinion, Ultima Online pre-trammel was the ONLY definition of an "MMORPG" back in the day of 1997 and games like Diablo and then Everquest that came soon after, I considered them "MMOs". Then somehow games like Everquest and WoW began being defined as "MMORPGs". It's at this time that I began making references to Ultima Online pre-trammel(1997-1999) as a sandbox because it was so drastically different than the rest.
All of a sudden EVE, SWG and console games like Fallout 3 came out and started referring to themselves as a "sandbox".
Now we have to redefine what Ultima Online pre-trammel was again and I refer to it today as a "MMOWS (RPG)" Massive Multiplayer Online World Simulator (Role Playing Game)".
The fact is that UO pre-T simply cannot be compared to any other game that has come after it. If a game does not have at least ALL these following elements it simply can't be compared:
These are the core elements that a sandbox MMOWS game must have, it's the solid foundation to start from. Now, a game surely could come in and add many more elements on top of this. But if it's missing one of these above, you just cannot call it an MMOWS. There will have to be another name for it, perhaps MMOFPS(like Darkfall). Mortal Online is the only game that gives me hope that this dream will actually happen(since they tout real player housing unlike Darkfall), but a true MMOWS needs to drop the FPS+Friendly fire/Crosshair in your face 24/7 bs. I would hope that a company out there is brave enough to make a truly beautiful MMOWS, in 10 years we've really only had 1 and that was Ultima Online pre-trammel which died a decade ago. People are sick and tired of the Themepark games and 99.95% of MMORPGs out there are Themeparks. ENOUGH!!!!!