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If you played Darkfall and didn't like it then...
Random_mage
Member UncommonPosts: 1,093
- You didn't play it long enough.
- You played it too much
- You were in the wrong guild
- You didn't get involved in the politics
- You're a WoW Newb
- You didn't play the Original UO
- You've only played the Original UO
- You only thought the game would suck.
- You had too high of hopes
- You didn't siege
- You thought it was a PvE game
- You are new school, and darkfall is old school
None of these facts take into account that Darkfall is an unfinished product. I know a lot of people who played and quit because the support was crap. Aventurine rewarded the cheaters/hackers by not doing roll backs and changing out things worked. I remember when they fixed the newb weapon skills ups... This was a TERRIBLE idea to not have done from the start.. or have done at all. People had already gotten the gains of macroing with the newb weapon. They didn't address the main problem. Macroing.
Face it folks.. Darkfall was a better game before it was released. back when the feature list was still probable and the prospect of playing was exciting.
Now, before you retort with "I'm having a great time in Darkfall!", I know. Many people are having fun. Sadly, the game is bleeding subscribers, and without AV addressing the main problem with Darkfall (that is the cheating/macroing-- GAINS) then there's no point continuing playing. The only hope is a US release with all of the patched/changed content to put everyone on the same footing.
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Comments
darkfall is just bad thats all there is to it nothing else
I'd have to totally agree with you OP. They should of done the same thing with the Rigor exploit, if they're gonna take it out.
QFT.
without having to go into details, attacking, defending, whatever -- the game is just horrid.
is it a mind numbing timesink? is it something you can macro and "feel" you're accomplishing something, WHILE watching tv/movie?
yes.
this, seriously, is a game you can play on autopilot for most of the week; then participate in some long, boring, drawn out, 6 hour snooze/lag fest of siege/counter siege.
adrenalin? i guess if you feel that your pixels are your property and that toon is actually you -- sure, i can see adrenalin. but um, i'm not some nutjob headcase. i know it's just pixels.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Have to say i am a fan of DF and very much am enjoying it.....but the OP is right and so are you. the game would be much better with a rollback and something along the lines. i am struggling to catch up with the exploiters now. can get frustrating!
I don't understand how the OP is using the bullet point list. Could you please explain what your intent is? Are you asserting the bullet points as fact, using them ironically, or what? Sorry, but it's not entirely clear. You could probably insert a few sentences to illustrate your point a little better.
QFT.
without having to go into details, attacking, defending, whatever -- the game is just horrid.
is it a mind numbing timesink? is it something you can macro and "feel" you're accomplishing something, WHILE watching tv/movie?
yes.
this, seriously, is a game you can play on autopilot for most of the week; then participate in some long, boring, drawn out, 6 hour snooze/lag fest of siege/counter siege.
adrenalin? i guess if you feel that your pixels are your property and that toon is actually you -- sure, i can see adrenalin. but um, i'm not some nutjob headcase. i know it's just pixels.
How can you play it on autopilot now?
And even you are not naive enough to think that people dont get a buzz from playing different games. if you never have then maybe you shouldnt even be on a gaming site....oh ye recieving a buzz is usually a direct result of adrenaline stimulation.
how can you have played a newly released game too much?
QFT.
without having to go into details, attacking, defending, whatever -- the game is just horrid.
is it a mind numbing timesink? is it something you can macro and "feel" you're accomplishing something, WHILE watching tv/movie?
yes.
this, seriously, is a game you can play on autopilot for most of the week; then participate in some long, boring, drawn out, 6 hour snooze/lag fest of siege/counter siege.
adrenalin? i guess if you feel that your pixels are your property and that toon is actually you -- sure, i can see adrenalin. but um, i'm not some nutjob headcase. i know it's just pixels.
I very much agree with you.
If the forumla for winning a fight is
If My macro time + exploits - Ping > Then your macro time + exploits - ping then I defeat you.
There's nothing to right over. A city? What for? Merchants? Really? You can find that merchant somewhere else. The only reason to old a city is E-peen.
I hate making the comparision to Darktide.. but I have to.
AC has story, history, lore.
Darkfall has .. well.. I haven't seen it.
AC has a reason to fight.. well it used to. merchant sell rates, supplies, spawn points, xp spots.
Darkfall has a reason to fight for xp spots.. well.. not xp, but loot drops.. but the fights are only at easily exploited monsters or getting ganked at goblins.
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These are all the reasons I've read on these forums for reasons you may not like Darkfall if you've played it.
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I can play this game...
If you like Darkfall then you:
by the way, i am none of those things and my name spelled backwards doesn't come close to Tasos. I'm almost 40, have a demanding job, a 5-month old baby, and newly landscaped yard where i have to water the damn plants over an hour every day (the wife forgot to mention this before we decided to plant them) and i end up frankly with very little time to play the game most weeks. I'm not a big PvPer (only other experience with PvP was a short stint in Eve) and played mostly EQ and Vanguard (along with the Realm) before trying Darkfall. I don't cheat. I don't macro. I play this game because Vanguard really soured me on PvP games where the pace of achievement became so fast (trying to mirror you know who) that every achievement was so diminished it felt like nothing was worthwhile. Death penalties became a joke which took away any fear (or other emotion for that matter) I experienced when playing the game. Teleporters in every chunk effectively diminished the size of the once-huge game world so people could get anywhere in 30 seconds. So I decided to try a PvP game to try to get some of that emotion and "epicness" (for lack of a better word) that i use to experience in my mmorpgs back.
In other words, i think I shatter just about every stereotype people have of people who enjoy Darkfall. I basically solo in the game (that is supposedly only for "group PvP") and still enjoy it immensely. The PvP aspect brings back those intense emotions of fear/achievement etc. i used to get when playing Pve games. There is a lot to really like about Darkfall. Is it perfect? Not by a longshot. It can be improved in many areas, specifically PvE. But right now, for my background and what i enjoy in games, there isn't a better alternative. MO has potential but i'm doubtful it can pull off large scale sieges (which interest me greatly although i haven't participated yet in DF) with any kind of decent framerate. I'll probably still give it a shot though.
Damn...i started rambling. Anyway, I disagree that Darkfall was a better game before it was released. They have done pretty well with the patches so far, fixing a lot of exploits, adding some PvE content, doing a lot of balancing, updating siege mechanics etc. I think the game has improved a lot since beta personally and if they continue this pace i have high hopes for the NA server to be very successful.
P.S.: i know you ended your post mentioning that many people are enjoying the game like myself. My post wasn't really directed at you outside of the very first part but more generally towards the anti-VG peeps on this board who have very stereotyped images of Darkfall fans and don't believe that any semi-normal person could possibly like this game.
I wasn't hardcore enough to enjoy the game, apparently!
The majority of the anti-DF (I think that's what you meant.. ) are people who haven't played the game. And there's nothing wrong with you IF you like Darkfall. I haven't read most of those reasons you gave for like Darkfall. Only the "You haven't played it long enough" and the "You're on Tasos Payroll".
Yes, they "fixed" exploits.. but that doesn't solve the problem. Subs aren't increasing an an alarming rate. On the contrary, I believe (I have no proof) that they are decreasing. Thus, the people playing aren't new players, but old players who took advantage of the exploits and that disallows new players from being on the same playing field. Tasos/AV says Darkfall is a game of skill.. which is not as true as they lead you to believe. Fact: Higher stats mean more damage. More Damage means faster kills.
Given people of equal skill, The one with the better weapon wins.
On a side note, I played on Sartok as well in VG. And the rapid transport REALLY killed the world size. I wanted a game where horses mattered. Alas.. they changed that. I actually stopped getting higher level mounts on my higher level characters because they weren't needed. In areas where you had to travel far, it made more sense to rent a flying mount and just fly to the rift stone.. Or in some cases, just kill your way out there.
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The majority of the anti-DF (I think that's what you meant.. ) are people who haven't played the game. And there's nothing wrong with you IF you like Darkfall. I haven't read most of those reasons you gave for like Darkfall. Only the "You haven't played it long enough" and the "You're on Tasos Payroll".
Yes, they "fixed" exploits.. but that doesn't solve the problem. Subs aren't increasing an an alarming rate. On the contrary, I believe (I have no proof) that they are decreasing. Thus, the people playing aren't new players, but old players who took advantage of the exploits and that disallows new players from being on the same playing field. Tasos/AV says Darkfall is a game of skill.. which is not as true as they lead you to believe. Fact: Higher stats mean more damage. More Damage means faster kills.
Given people of equal skill, The one with the better weapon wins.
On a side note, I played on Sartok as well in VG. And the rapid transport REALLY killed the world size. I wanted a game where horses mattered. Alas.. they changed that. I actually stopped getting higher level mounts on my higher level characters because they weren't needed. In areas where you had to travel far, it made more sense to rent a flying mount and just fly to the rift stone.. Or in some cases, just kill your way out there.
Correct, i did mean anti-DF people.
As for DF being a game of skill vs. stats: i believe it is both...and by necessity i believe it has to be that way. One of the main reasons i (and most others i assume) play mmorpgs is because you can develop your character and watch them grow and become more powerful in a given aspect of gameplay over time. Without that character development mmorpgs wouldn't really be mmorpgs imo...they'd be something closer to the online FPS games like CS only in a persistent game world. And that's not something i'm interested in for my mmorpg experience...character growth to me is a cornerstone of the genre. What's the point if your character never grows and evolves over time to be more powerful? W/out that, then it becomes just a game of pure skill and hand/eye coordination - and that's fine again for games like CS and other online shooters but again not for mmorpgs, at least not for me.
Having said that, you cannot deny there is also an element of skill needed in Darkfall to be successful at PvP, especially as it does not have auto-aiming like most mmorpgs. If this weren't true, you would never see a smaller group defeat a larger group, or at least would never see a character with lower level skills defeat a character with higher level skills...yet this happens all the time.
Sure, everything else being equal a character with higher skills should defeat a player with lower skills. I think that's the way it should be. You should be somewhat rewarded for having put more effort into your character. (obviously exploits are an issue in the game, albeit a lesser one than i think most who don't play the game believe, but that's a separate issue and one i believe AV is trying to address in patch after patch...which is why i'm hoping for a clean slate on NA-1). having said that, most of the time everything else is not equal, and it is a combination of player skill and the avatar's skill levels that combined eventually determine the outcome of a fight...which is exactly what i hoped for in this game. I'm not sure how else you can do it...and i'd expect MO will work in a similar fashion. After all your alternatives are either that your avatar's skill levels alone determine who wins or alternatively the players skill alone determines who wins (ala CS). Neither of those methods appeals to me in the least in terms of PvP focused mmorpgs.
Ahhhhh Vanguard. That game had such tremendous potential to be a great PvE experience...even after the bad launch. it was more painful for me to watch SOE and Silius and his team of monkeys strip away every meaningful mechanic and dumb that game down to the lowest denominator and destory the vast potential it once had than to watch the bad launch. What incredible mismanagement of potential (both pre-McQuaid and post-McQuaid).
This is the problem.
The skill gains are from AFK'ing it (no, not everyone.. but the ratio that seperates the do's from the don'ts is VERY large), thus the guy who cheated to gain an advantage will hold that advantage until the noncheating/late comer is equal. And who knows how long that will be? The game is still new, yet there are people still doing the "high level" content. And that's sieging?? One thing you can count on from a PvP game is cheating.. that I know.. but, unlike most companies that reset the cheaters.. AV decided to "fix" it.. Sorry.. no good.
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This is the problem.
The skill gains are from AFK'ing it (no, not everyone.. but the ratio that seperates the do's from the don'ts is VERY large), thus the guy who cheated to gain an advantage will hold that advantage until the noncheating/late comer is equal. And who knows how long that will be? The game is still new, yet there are people still doing the "high level" content. And that's sieging?? One thing you can count on from a PvP game is cheating.. that I know.. but, unlike most companies that reset the cheaters.. AV decided to "fix" it.. Sorry.. no good.
This is a no win situation for DF.
Come to think this way, who is now playing in DF? The old camp, who has vested interest in staying in game, b/c they have so much advantage built up thru cheating.
Will they play if DF rolls back or do a character wipe? These are cheaters, who won by cheating. They are true QQers. IF DF rolls back they will QQ loudest. The few and only few true PvPers have left game, they want true PvP, not cheating. Will roll back brings them back? I doubt. These players had seen the horror of DF, they might not trust the new patches. After all, with so much client side loopholes, I do not blame them.
So its a no win situation. DF dare not roll back, DF need a roll back. Either way, its a losing situation. Poor AV. I do not envy them.
The majority of the anti-DF (I think that's what you meant.. ) are people who haven't played the game. And there's nothing wrong with you IF you like Darkfall. I haven't read most of those reasons you gave for like Darkfall. Only the "You haven't played it long enough" and the "You're on Tasos Payroll".
Yes, they "fixed" exploits.. but that doesn't solve the problem. Subs aren't increasing an an alarming rate. On the contrary, I believe (I have no proof) that they are decreasing. Thus, the people playing aren't new players, but old players who took advantage of the exploits and that disallows new players from being on the same playing field. Tasos/AV says Darkfall is a game of skill.. which is not as true as they lead you to believe. Fact: Higher stats mean more damage. More Damage means faster kills.
Given people of equal skill, The one with the better weapon wins.
On a side note, I played on Sartok as well in VG. And the rapid transport REALLY killed the world size. I wanted a game where horses mattered. Alas.. they changed that. I actually stopped getting higher level mounts on my higher level characters because they weren't needed. In areas where you had to travel far, it made more sense to rent a flying mount and just fly to the rift stone.. Or in some cases, just kill your way out there.
Correct, i did mean anti-DF people.
As for DF being a game of skill vs. stats: i believe it is both...and by necessity i believe it has to be that way. One of the main reasons i (and most others i assume) play mmorpgs is because you can develop your character and watch them grow and become more powerful in a given aspect of gameplay over time. Without that character development mmorpgs wouldn't really be mmorpgs imo...they'd be something closer to the online FPS games like CS only in a persistent game world. And that's not something i'm interested in for my mmorpg experience...character growth to me is a cornerstone of the genre. What's the point if your character never grows and evolves over time to be more powerful? W/out that, then it becomes just a game of pure skill and hand/eye coordination - and that's fine again for games like CS and other online shooters but again not for mmorpgs, at least not for me.
Having said that, you cannot deny there is also an element of skill needed in Darkfall to be successful at PvP, especially as it does not have auto-aiming like most mmorpgs. If this weren't true, you would never see a smaller group defeat a larger group, or at least would never see a character with lower level skills defeat a character with higher level skills...yet this happens all the time.
Sure, everything else being equal a character with higher skills should defeat a player with lower skills. I think that's the way it should be. You should be somewhat rewarded for having put more effort into your character. (obviously exploits are an issue in the game, albeit a lesser one than i think most who don't play the game believe, but that's a separate issue and one i believe AV is trying to address in patch after patch...which is why i'm hoping for a clean slate on NA-1). having said that, most of the time everything else is not equal, and it is a combination of player skill and the avatar's skill levels that combined eventually determine the outcome of a fight...which is exactly what i hoped for in this game. I'm not sure how else you can do it...and i'd expect MO will work in a similar fashion. After all your alternatives are either that your avatar's skill levels alone determine who wins or alternatively the players skill alone determines who wins (ala CS). Neither of those methods appeals to me in the least in terms of PvP focused mmorpgs.
Ahhhhh Vanguard. That game had such tremendous potential to be a great PvE experience...even after the bad launch. it was more painful for me to watch SOE and Silius and his team of monkeys strip away every meaningful mechanic and dumb that game down to the lowest denominator and destory the vast potential it once had than to watch the bad launch. What incredible mismanagement of potential (both pre-McQuaid and post-McQuaid).
I hope that in the next patch(es) AV will fix DF's skill problem and reward players like you that actually play the game. You will be surprised to know that if you join a clan that owns a city isolated from major attacks, you will gain skills many times faster than actually going out and play the game as you do.
Even if i consider it "natural" practicing with your clan-guild mates, skill gains from these interactions do not cap and thus after a month of attended or unattended macroing the benefits are too unfair in my opinion.
Even worse this kind of freedom that allows everyone to be everything does not classify players of DF as role players and this perhaps is why many people don't consider DF a role playing game.
Apart from these problems i enjoy the game at a slow pace but i don't think that people who prefer this kind of progression will tolerate this situation for long.
Every mmo is unfinished, and an empty and meaningless response like that will often following as meaningless a point. But none-the-less.
Darkfall was not as complete as most would want, but it has asmuch content and game-play mechanics as many mmos, and the nature of the player-driven ecosystem lends to the gaps in pve since the players are now the perverbial mobs.
WRONG! totally and completely WRONG!
mmos are released. a base game is released. it either has the features advertised (released fairly complete), or it does NOT have the features advertised (take your pick - false advertising, released incomplete, paytoplay beta, whatever).
upon this BASIC GAME -- an mmo will EVOLVE and EXPAND. that does not mean it is released unfinished. it means that it is expanding and evolving into a (hopefully) better game experience.
if you can't get your head behind this basic understanding - i honestly can't help you. games that are released UNFINISHED - are garbage.
so, i'd like to know... what weapons (skills) do you have, at what level, and how EXACTLY did you get them to that level (assuming you have at least 75 skill in any of the weapons).
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
The majority of the anti-DF (I think that's what you meant.. ) are people who haven't played the game. And there's nothing wrong with you IF you like Darkfall. I haven't read most of those reasons you gave for like Darkfall. Only the "You haven't played it long enough" and the "You're on Tasos Payroll".
Yes, they "fixed" exploits.. but that doesn't solve the problem. Subs aren't increasing an an alarming rate. On the contrary, I believe (I have no proof) that they are decreasing. Thus, the people playing aren't new players, but old players who took advantage of the exploits and that disallows new players from being on the same playing field. Tasos/AV says Darkfall is a game of skill.. which is not as true as they lead you to believe. Fact: Higher stats mean more damage. More Damage means faster kills.
Given people of equal skill, The one with the better weapon wins.
On a side note, I played on Sartok as well in VG. And the rapid transport REALLY killed the world size. I wanted a game where horses mattered. Alas.. they changed that. I actually stopped getting higher level mounts on my higher level characters because they weren't needed. In areas where you had to travel far, it made more sense to rent a flying mount and just fly to the rift stone.. Or in some cases, just kill your way out there.
Correct, i did mean anti-DF people.
As for DF being a game of skill vs. stats: i believe it is both...and by necessity i believe it has to be that way. One of the main reasons i (and most others i assume) play mmorpgs is because you can develop your character and watch them grow and become more powerful in a given aspect of gameplay over time. Without that character development mmorpgs wouldn't really be mmorpgs imo...they'd be something closer to the online FPS games like CS only in a persistent game world. And that's not something i'm interested in for my mmorpg experience...character growth to me is a cornerstone of the genre. What's the point if your character never grows and evolves over time to be more powerful? W/out that, then it becomes just a game of pure skill and hand/eye coordination - and that's fine again for games like CS and other online shooters but again not for mmorpgs, at least not for me.
Having said that, you cannot deny there is also an element of skill needed in Darkfall to be successful at PvP, especially as it does not have auto-aiming like most mmorpgs. If this weren't true, you would never see a smaller group defeat a larger group, or at least would never see a character with lower level skills defeat a character with higher level skills...yet this happens all the time.
Sure, everything else being equal a character with higher skills should defeat a player with lower skills. I think that's the way it should be. You should be somewhat rewarded for having put more effort into your character. (obviously exploits are an issue in the game, albeit a lesser one than i think most who don't play the game believe, but that's a separate issue and one i believe AV is trying to address in patch after patch...which is why i'm hoping for a clean slate on NA-1). having said that, most of the time everything else is not equal, and it is a combination of player skill and the avatar's skill levels that combined eventually determine the outcome of a fight...which is exactly what i hoped for in this game. I'm not sure how else you can do it...and i'd expect MO will work in a similar fashion. After all your alternatives are either that your avatar's skill levels alone determine who wins or alternatively the players skill alone determines who wins (ala CS). Neither of those methods appeals to me in the least in terms of PvP focused mmorpgs.
Ahhhhh Vanguard. That game had such tremendous potential to be a great PvE experience...even after the bad launch. it was more painful for me to watch SOE and Silius and his team of monkeys strip away every meaningful mechanic and dumb that game down to the lowest denominator and destory the vast potential it once had than to watch the bad launch. What incredible mismanagement of potential (both pre-McQuaid and post-McQuaid).
Players who have more skill should win in pvp, however its not the rule in darkfall. in more cases its the exception to the rule, unless said player also has the time to train skills. That said, pvp isnt even the issue, and frankly is the only bright spot in the game. the problem isnt that the pvp in darkfall is bad, its that all the supporting elements, and game mechanics in non pvp aspects of the game are complete failures. broken, or at best horribly unbalanced. This reinforces the scenario that he who has the most time generally wins, be in resource farming, charecter development, arms race development, etc all win. those who have less time are penalized, and exponentially penalized over time so that at some point the majority will just give up. There is no slippery slope mechanic in this game to balance out the ability for a player or guild to jump back from the loss.
What we end up with is a very steep vertical progression ,rather then a horizontal progression which means the majority of players will never really accept this game. I still play this game, and love the pvp and siege aspects,although siege mechanics are horribly broken. however anyone who has played online games at all for a few years can take a look and see where this product is heading, unless very intensive changes are made, and very soon.
There are many valid reasons why people don't like darkfall, unfortuntely the end result is that the canibals start eating themselves as you can see more and more with the current situation on EU1. You can already see it by the mass slaughter that occurs daily in the newbie areas. you can see it with the mass exodus of starving sheep, and the non hardcore. The developer can spin it anyway they want, but the simple fact is that they have massive issues and very little time to fix them, or this game ends up in the same boat as TR, basically Dead in a year.
Right..
Players who cheated their way to the top are doing better than those who didn't. so, instead of rewarding those who didn't cheat to get a head, AV punishes them by basically saying, "The loot you didn't dupe will most likely be taken by those who did. The newb weapons that the cheaters used to level up with, are now also garbage."
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