Levelling is too fast in current MMOs

DukeTyrion · June 2009

I am struggling to enjoy MMOs at the moment, and I think the reason is, the levels fly past too quickly. You might argue this allows me to get to the end game quicker, but do I really want to get there quicker.

I think part of the reason that I am for the end game, is that I know the items I am collecting and using along the way are only temporary, so the items I collect in the end game will at least last. But when I used to play DAoC and even EQ2 on first release, it seemed that levels were so few and far between that a new axe at level 32 would serve me well for weeks in real terms. Added to that a new axe at 32 was perhaps not upgradable until level 35 or later, so it was a delight to collect it.

Perhaps that is also the issue, not only are the levels flying by so quickly that a level 32 axe in WoW or such might only last me a day, but there are axes for every level, 33, 34, 35, 36 ... the non-end game items no longer have any meaning, because you know the replacement is just around the corner.

So, is there an MMO out there, where the levelling is slower and where an upgrade really means something to your character?

Perhaps I am searching for something that does not exist, or even need a break from MMOs, but at the moment re-painting the outside of the house even seems like a more interesting adventure.

Ihmotepp · June 2009

It's because games cater to solo players these days.

Bring back the grouping game, and make it take a long, long, long time to solo.

maskedweasel · June 2009

Originally posted by DukeTyrion

I am struggling to enjoy MMOs at the moment, and I think the reason is, the levels fly past too quickly. You might argue this allows me to get to the end game quicker, but do I really want to get there quicker.

I think part of the reason that I am for the end game, is that I know the items I am collecting and using along the way are only temporary, so the items I collect in the end game will at least last. But when I used to play DAoC and even EQ2 on first release, it seemed that levels were so few and far between that a new axe at level 32 would serve me well for weeks in real terms. Added to that a new axe at 32 was perhaps not upgradable until level 35 or later, so it was a delight to collect it.

Perhaps that is also the issue, not only are the levels flying by so quickly that a level 32 axe in WoW or such might only last me a day, but there are axes for every level, 33, 34, 35, 36 ... the non-end game items no longer have any meaning, because you know the replacement is just around the corner.

So, is there an MMO out there, where the levelling is slower and where an upgrade really means something to your character?

Perhaps I am searching for something that does not exist, or even need a break from MMOs, but at the moment re-painting the outside of the house even seems like a more interesting adventure.

Lineage 2. Have fun!!!

Reizla · June 2009

I know the feeling. Most US/European MMOs have the nack of fast-leveling and go to end-game ASAP. I sometimes wonder why you even have to level - just give the players a maxed out char (saves them 2-4 weeks playing) and hop to end-game immediately...

For this reason I'm more into Asion MMOs than US/European. Most have an extremely slow leveling curve, and an upgrade in gear (as well as skills) is a real upgrade.

WillClarke · June 2009

Hey if you get bored easily because game is too easy try Atlantica Online. You've probably heard/played the game but it is really hard to reach the maximum level. The level cap is currently 120 but you can train up to 30 mercenaries with 8 in battle with you at any one time. Noone has a full maxed team yet and the game has been out for almost a year, it is really fun to play and you won't get bored easy.

EDIT: Having read the post above (wasn't there when i was writing this comment) i would like to add that it is a free to play korean MMO.

Link = http://atlantica.ndoorsgames.com/center/default.asp

Tyrrhon · June 2009

The issue is most MMOs do not offer much besides the gear/level grind. Once you take gear upgrades and fast levels out the games they feel empty.

You need to find a game that has a lot of varied and interesting content. Back then the concept of MMO was new to us and we were exploring the genre. That is long gone, now we need AAA content - or the fast levels to fool ourselves that we are actually doing anything new.

Any asian grinder will eventually slow down a lot but I doubt that is what you are looking for.

If you want something totally different, EvE has a lot of different things to do and old stuff does rarely get obsolete. But while it is MMO it is not much of a game.

AllNewMMOSuk · June 2009

Someone that feels the same as I do, about time. I hate modern MMOs for that very reason it is a couple weeks of leveling before you're max and then end game raid grind. The most boring system I've ever seen. My fourth MMO was Asheron's Call (and I still play it now) and it launched with 126 levels but the leveling was slower then EQ1, it was amazing because you always had a goal to strive for. Many years later with an expansion they raised the level cap to 275 but at the same time they made leveling easier. In the current state of AC leveling is significantly faster then when it launched but I still think it takes longer to get to max level then other MMOs out there.

The nice bit of it now is you can get to 150 fairly quickly if you know what you're doing, or have help. And the best loot and items are available to 150+ so then you can go back to slowly working your way to the top.

But it does seem that each new MMO that comes out makes it even easier to level then the last. When I tried out WAR it was laughable how easy it was to max level characters, not surprsingly I played for only one month and then removed it from my computer.

If a new game came out with hundreds of levels and a slow leveling progression with things to do all along the journey, I would pay for a year up front.

Gaurn · June 2009

Yes Lineage 2 or Final Fantasy 11 sounds exactly how you're wanting your levels. Both start off leveling kinda decently. In lineage 2 you can get to 20 in just a couple of hours, but after that, yeah it kinda gets to the point where you'll be questing and grinding for days just to get half a level. I've played both, and love both, so it's really just what looks better to you. Lineage has more levels, but Final Fantasy 11 has more classes I think, and looks more realistic. Final Fantasy 11 also has a bit more in character customization, though not by much. Lineage 2 has more pvp in it, you risk getting ganked in the open world, but the game is soloable for the most part. Final Fantasy 11 you don't have to worry about ganking, but if you agro a monster that is way stronger than you, it doesn't have a leash mode on returning to its spot of agro after traveling so far from it, you'll have to zone to get rid of it, or pray there's a player more powerful that can take the hate from you and kill it.

Both games are fun, and have levels that are time consuming, and items that will last you a while in them, but they both have their little annoyances that for me, make them hard for me to want to play them. Final Fantasy 11 was my very first mmo, and loved it to death, but now....well...I guess I'm just spoiled now. lol. Anywho, those two games are worth investing into, if you can get past things like the whole mob agro thing in FF11, or say the camera in Lineage 2. They're little things, but they can still bother someone to the point of not playing. At least for me. But anywho, go try their free trials, see what you like. Fair warning though, Final Fantasy 11's registration, and account creation, might be a little confusing at first. Take your time and write down any codes, user id's, and passwords you'll make while doing it, or you may end up having trouble with your account in various aspects later.

Edit: To get rid of the white wall of death.

madeux · June 2009

I think this is a result of developers trying to please everyone.

Most players are casual, and cannot devote obnoxious amounts of time to a game. But they still want to be able to see progress in the limited amounts of time that they have.

Games like WoW are designed to let you level relatively quick, which gives the casual player what he wants. Then there's the end game content for the more hardcore players, where the focus moves to getting better gear in order to improve your character.

It's a tough balancing act.

Zyonne · June 2009

I agree... to a certain extent. Levelling speed isn't that important to me. Fast or slow are both fine if done right. Level locks on equipment and abilities is my biggest gripe. Why do you need to be max level to loot/equip the best equipment, and to even gain access to the "end game" areas? This is usually what causes players to feel they have to rush to max level to start playing the game, dividing the game play experience into levelling and end-game, and making them feel like entirely different games, rather than having a smooth transition.

I loved the way this was handled in Anarchy Online, or well, at least AO the way it used to be. Someone with good knowledge of the game could use, say, level 200 equipment and nanos (spells) at level 120 by twinking the skills required to put on the equipment or use the nanos. This could be done with buffs, implants, special +skills/abilities equipment, etc.This meant that you could choose to spend your time on twinking rather than levelling to advance the power of your character, and of course levelling would be a breeze afterwards. This also made low level pvp a lot more interesting.

It did have some items with level locks, but the level was rarely max level, and the required level to enter raids was decided by the player base rather than the game. So, you could enter "end game" raids, and roll for the item drops while still levelling if your guild/faction/whoever ran it let you.

I wish more new games used a similar approach to itemization and character progression.

PS: I apologize to anyone still playing AO for any inaccuracies. It's been a few years.

Cephus404 · June 2009

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

It's because games cater to solo players these days.
Bring back the grouping game, and make it take a long, long, long time to solo.

That's ridiculous, grouping makes it go MUCH faster because you can get MUCH more XP in a group. I played an adventurer on Anarchy Online almost entirely solo and it took me about 6 months of play to slog him to level 100. Granted, I took my time, didn't try to power level and I could have gone faster. Now, I have a fixer that I've pushed to near 150 in about a month. What made the difference? I've played heavily in teams that have been pushing high XP. Heck, just yesterday I did 8 levels in about 2 hours by taking a full team against high-level targets. It would be entirely impossible to do that solo.

1pitboss · June 2009

The problem is not the games the real problem is us as in human beings. I am probably much older than most of you on here and I have watched as society has developed in the last 50 years. Going from a take it easy kind a life to cell phone that are computers and I want instant everything now. And you know what? you can have just about everything right now. Human nature wants to get at the end fast period that is why powerleveling exist and gold sellers do so well. How many of you and your friends or someone you meet start out and by weeks end they are 10 levels above you and you never see them again cause you cannot catch up in time. Don't blame the companys they are trying to make things more complicated but we always find a way around it as fast as we can to get the best stuff, to get an edge over an enemy to really be dominate in what ever we do. I remember playing WOW and the new expansion came out Burning Crusades, I remember hearing on my server after two days that someone had got to 70. I do not know what this person did all that time after no doubt got bored waiting for everyone else to catch up. Everyone just shakes their head but we really wish it was us who did that so we can kick that pukes azz and camp him for bugging us when we are just trying to level. If this is not true think of the last time you saw anyone walking to go to a quest.

Dwigo · June 2009

Originally posted by DukeTyrion

I am struggling to enjoy MMOs at the moment, and I think the reason is, the levels fly past too quickly. You might argue this allows me to get to the end game quicker, but do I really want to get there quicker.

I think part of the reason that I am for the end game, is that I know the items I am collecting and using along the way are only temporary, so the items I collect in the end game will at least last. But when I used to play DAoC and even EQ2 on first release, it seemed that levels were so few and far between that a new axe at level 32 would serve me well for weeks in real terms. Added to that a new axe at 32 was perhaps not upgradable until level 35 or later, so it was a delight to collect it.

Perhaps that is also the issue, not only are the levels flying by so quickly that a level 32 axe in WoW or such might only last me a day, but there are axes for every level, 33, 34, 35, 36 ... the non-end game items no longer have any meaning, because you know the replacement is just around the corner.

So, is there an MMO out there, where the levelling is slower and where an upgrade really means something to your character?

Perhaps I am searching for something that does not exist, or even need a break from MMOs, but at the moment re-painting the outside of the house even seems like a more interesting adventure.

Sure, go play Lineage 2 or any other korean grindfest. You will be busy for months to get 5% of your level halfway to the max level already. And then you die and lose all that progress. I would rather get to the endgame than not seeing it at all.

talamanthon · June 2009

Originally posted by DukeTyrion

I am struggling to enjoy MMOs at the moment, and I think the reason is, the levels fly past too quickly. You might argue this allows me to get to the end game quicker, but do I really want to get there quicker.

I think part of the reason that I am for the end game, is that I know the items I am collecting and using along the way are only temporary, so the items I collect in the end game will at least last. But when I used to play DAoC and even EQ2 on first release, it seemed that levels were so few and far between that a new axe at level 32 would serve me well for weeks in real terms. Added to that a new axe at 32 was perhaps not upgradable until level 35 or later, so it was a delight to collect it.

Perhaps that is also the issue, not only are the levels flying by so quickly that a level 32 axe in WoW or such might only last me a day, but there are axes for every level, 33, 34, 35, 36 ... the non-end game items no longer have any meaning, because you know the replacement is just around the corner.

So, is there an MMO out there, where the levelling is slower and where an upgrade really means something to your character?

Perhaps I am searching for something that does not exist, or even need a break from MMOs, but at the moment re-painting the outside of the house even seems like a more interesting adventure.

Is this a troll? I almost think it is...

If not you're way off and your subject title shows how minsinformed you truly are. Many of your peers in this community have pointed out current MMO's that disprove your claim.

Ihmotepp · June 2009

I would like to see a shallower leveling curve. Not necessarily faster, but more spread out. It gets to steep at the top, and it's to shallow at teh bottom.

Level 1 to level 2, 30 seconds. Level just before max to level max, one month.

cukimunga · June 2009

Originally posted by Cephus404

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

It's because games cater to solo players these days.
Bring back the grouping game, and make it take a long, long, long time to solo.

That's ridiculous, grouping makes it go MUCH faster because you can get MUCH more XP in a group. I played an adventurer on Anarchy Online almost entirely solo and it took me about 6 months of play to slog him to level 100. Granted, I took my time, didn't try to power level and I could have gone faster. Now, I have a fixer that I've pushed to near 150 in about a month. What made the difference? I've played heavily in teams that have been pushing high XP. Heck, just yesterday I did 8 levels in about 2 hours by taking a full team against high-level targets. It would be entirely impossible to do that solo.

Yes it does go faster in a group but still in FFXI it took a long time to get to max level in a group and near impossible solo. I like when levels take a long time to get so when I level and get new spells, abilities and armor I feel like I accomplished something. Unlike some other games where you get new gear its obsolete in a day or 2.

peacekraft · June 2009

Yeap as others have said, play lineage 2 - I play it and love it. Much easier now than it used to be but it still takes a very long time, and you can keep the same weapons and armour for ages. It is very pvp centric - which is a good thing, but you wont really get to pvp much untill the 70's - a good while of game play time.

Gaurn · June 2009

Originally posted by Dwigo

Originally posted by DukeTyrion

I am struggling to enjoy MMOs at the moment, and I think the reason is, the levels fly past too quickly. You might argue this allows me to get to the end game quicker, but do I really want to get there quicker.

I think part of the reason that I am for the end game, is that I know the items I am collecting and using along the way are only temporary, so the items I collect in the end game will at least last. But when I used to play DAoC and even EQ2 on first release, it seemed that levels were so few and far between that a new axe at level 32 would serve me well for weeks in real terms. Added to that a new axe at 32 was perhaps not upgradable until level 35 or later, so it was a delight to collect it.

Perhaps that is also the issue, not only are the levels flying by so quickly that a level 32 axe in WoW or such might only last me a day, but there are axes for every level, 33, 34, 35, 36 ... the non-end game items no longer have any meaning, because you know the replacement is just around the corner.

So, is there an MMO out there, where the levelling is slower and where an upgrade really means something to your character?

Perhaps I am searching for something that does not exist, or even need a break from MMOs, but at the moment re-painting the outside of the house even seems like a more interesting adventure.

Sure, go play Lineage 2 or any other korean grindfest. You will be busy for months to get 5% of your level halfway to the max level already. And then you die and lose all that progress. I would rather get to the endgame than not seeing it at all.

lol Yeah that's one of those "little annoyances" I was talking about earlier. That happens in both the games I mentioned(for the OP's knowledge) so if you don't want to risk that, I'd probably just stick to one of the more current mmo's out there. Or at least something with multiple spheres to level such as Vanguard. Adventuring, Crafting, and Diplomacy, each will be at 55 soon, so that'll be 165 actual levels in three different aspects of the game. Just another thought on an option for you. It also has one of the better character creaters out there, if you're wanting them to look somewhat more unique. They won't be by much though. You'll have to wait till Aion, or play CoX for true uniqueness.

Vrazule · June 2009

There is no problem. There are games that level slowly and some that are fast, just play the ones that level slowly and you're set. Stop trying to make everyone else play the way you think they should.

Faitu · June 2009

Are you kidding me? Do you actually enjoy spending months repeating the same crap just to increase a number on your screen by one? Well, if you do, just click on "Game List". Pick a random MMO, the chances are that it will be like that. It'll obviously be faster at lower levels, but as you progress it gets much harder, it's pretty much like that in every F2P game.

Yamota · June 2009

I concur, leveling is too fast and too easy. Hitting the level cap should not be for everyone, like being the best is not for everyone, only the ones that excel the most should be able to hit the level cap and that after a long dedicated path to get there.

Unfourtanetely WoW had many negative sideeffects on the MMORPG genre and that was to introduce single player game elements into MMORPGs, and one of those was the notice that ANYONE should be able to hit the level cap.

What people fail to realise is that if everyone is at the level cap then it wont be an achievement and nothing special. Just like being among the best would lose its meaning if everyone were among the best.

Gaurn · June 2009

Originally posted by Vrazule

There is no problem. There are games that level slowly and some that are fast, just play the ones that level slowly and you're set. Stop trying to make everyone else play the way you think they should.

Just out of curriousity, who's trying to make everyone else play the way they think others should?

Reizla · June 2009

Originally posted by Yamota

Unfourtanetely WoW had many negative sideeffects on the MMORPG genre and that was to introduce single player game elements into MMORPGs, and one of those was the notice that ANYONE should be able to hit the level cap.
What people fail to realise is that if everyone is at the level cap then it wont be an achievement and nothing special. Just like being among the best would lose its meaning if everyone were among the best.

"Is everyone is a super, then no one is a super anymore" - Syndicate The Incredibles

Vrazule · June 2009

Originally posted by ilydamdris

Originally posted by Vrazule

There is no problem. There are games that level slowly and some that are fast, just play the ones that level slowly and you're set. Stop trying to make everyone else play the way you think they should.

Just out of curriousity, who's trying to make everyone else play the way they think others should?

Shouldn't that be obvious? The ones who keep bitching about fast leveling in fast leveling games. Either deal with it or move to a game that doesn't level quickly for crying out loud.

Torik · June 2009

I think you guys are way too focused on the numbers and how fast one gets to max level. The true measure of how fast a game progresses is whether a player has a chance to enjoy all the content before he/she outlevels it or whether the player has to grind filler content before he/she is allowed to unlock new content.

So progression from level 1 to 2 should only take enough time as a new player needs to get familar with the interface and the basic skills. Each new level should introduce new skills and new content and should last long enough for most players to learn how to use the skills and to complete the content to their satisfaction. If you need to put in a needless grind as a time sink then it simply means that you failed to pace your content properly.

Gaurn · June 2009

Well no..it's really not all that obvious. I can't see anywhere where he made an attempt to tell others how to play their mmo's. Or anyone who doesn't like fast leveling, telling anyone else how to play their mmo's. Lotro, WoW, War, Eq2, etc. all level pretty quickly compared to games like L2, FF11, EQ launch. They just simply remember the days when levels were something to get REALLY excited for, and today's mmo's seem to not have that feeling quite so much. I don't believe anyone here was trying to tell you how to play whatever mmo you're enjoying.

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Levelling is too fast in current MMOs

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