I did not read the whole thread. but i don't blame him. there is nothing in that thread that is constructive, just a bunch of children making nasty comments about the developers.
Then tell me if that is a suitable response from a community manager, regardless of what the community posts.
Maybe not, but he is a human. Something people tend to forget. a lot.
That site just confirms it, those people were bating, taunting and flaming him. Just so they could run and post everything out of context and go "SEE!!!".
Perhaps he should have just banned them? Because about 90% of the posts he was responding to, warranted it.
I read the community managers last response (lock) and the impression I got was that he hates this part of his job, but he has to do it and he knows that the community is sick of loot cards.
Then I read his responses before the thread was locked and I see exactly the same attitude this company has towards its customers for years now. Insulting the customers for not shutting up and taking whatever the company dishes out is about the most unprofessional thing he could do, but at least he is being honest. Calling people cry babies isn't his job, especially when he admitted that this was the reaction he was expecting.
Frankly this has the same exact tone soe has shown for years. Talking down towards their customers every time they do something that pisses the community off. Especially the part where he fully admits this is being done to try to attract more new players. Again with this stupid mentailty of pissing on the current players, telling them S-T-F-U and making changes geared towards the potential new player that never materializes.
I have no doubts at all that this is exactly how the staff at soe talks about the players within the office. This attitude just pops up far to often for it to be anything else.
As to your last point, yes he should just delete/ban people who break the rules, because THAT IS HIS JOB. His job is not to insult his customers and act like soe is doing them a favor with loot cards.
I remember back when I played WoW there was one CM that went off on the forum (justifiable in my and many others' opinion) and was never heard from again, and it came nowhere near the level of personal attacks and snide remarks this guy has gone to.
I remember back when I played WoW there was one CM that went off on the forum (justifiable in my and many others' opinion) and was never heard from again, and it came nowhere near the level of personal attacks and snide remarks this guy has gone to.
I remember back when I played WoW there was one CM that went off on the forum (justifiable in my and many others' opinion) and was never heard from again, and it came nowhere near the level of personal attacks and snide remarks this guy has gone to.
If I was the CEO of SOE, I would be hoping that a mod locked the thread and banned this CSR after couple of replies pending internal review of his action. I would then hire that mod as the new CSR. The fact this has happened in the first place is very disturbing. Most companies (even small ones) have solid hiring procedures and internal training. The fact that this individual made it through SOE hiring procedure and did what he did make me think the company itself is having a problem. How can I trust the quality and professionalism of the developer team under such circumstances?
I did not read the whole thread. but i don't blame him. there is nothing in that thread that is constructive, just a bunch of children making nasty comments about the developers.
Then tell me if that is a suitable response from a community manager, regardless of what the community posts.
Maybe not, but he is a human. Something people tend to forget. a lot.
That site just confirms it, those people were bating, taunting and flaming him. Just so they could run and post everything out of context and go "SEE!!!".
Perhaps he should have just banned them? Because about 90% of the posts he was responding to, warranted it.
You aren't allowed to be "human" in a CS position. You have to rise above it. It is part of the job description, and goes double for the Manager. Never done CS before, have you? Did it for 3 years myself, and my current job requires me to suffer fools daily. You get used to it.
I read every post he made in that thread last night, as well as the posts to which he was responding. Only ONE of them was a personal attack on him. Nobody except for the CM posted ANYTHING out of context. The rest of them were (arguably) legitimate comments regarding SOE's own rules about posting about the TCG on the main forums. Not having played the game since April 2006, when it became clear SOE was willing to flush everything away, I can't confirm whether those rules exist or not. What I can confirm is that the CM did not say anything about that - he just berated, threatened, and belittled his customers, using his position to justify it. He's a bully, plain and simple, and at any other company would have been thrown out on his arse for talking to customers that way. At SOE, though, he very much toed the company line. To paraphrase Ben Stiller in Dodgeball, "At (SOE), we're better than you. And we know it!"
If I was the CEO of SOE, I would be hoping that a mod locked the thread and banned this CSR after couple of replies pending internal review of his action. I would then hire that mod as the new CSR. The fact this has happened in the first place is very disturbing. Most companies (even small ones) have solid hiring procedures and internal training. The fact that this individual made it through SOE hiring procedure and did what he did make me think the company itself is having a problem. How can I trust the quality and professionalism of the developer team under such circumstances?
yes. in other words, the problem is not the pig, but with who feeds it; and we all know who that is.
If I was the CEO of SOE, I would be hoping that a mod locked the thread and banned this CSR after couple of replies pending internal review of his action. I would then hire that mod as the new CSR. The fact this has happened in the first place is very disturbing. Most companies (even small ones) have solid hiring procedures and internal training. The fact that this individual made it through SOE hiring procedure and did what he did make me think the company itself is having a problem. How can I trust the quality and professionalism of the developer team under such circumstances?
yes. in other words, the problem is not the pig, but with who feeds it; and we all know who that is.
I think the "highlights" you posted should be placed in every thread involving new players asking about the game. After all, Draakull is trying to bring more players in. So why not make sure they know what to expect? lol
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
As much as I hate SOE, it's great to see someone stand up to the trolls for a change. I'm sure his boss wasn't too happy with him but by allowing the BS and personal attacks to continue, you show everyone else that you condone that behavior.
As I've been taught in the Army, any time you sincerely want to make a change, the first thing you must do is to raise your standards. Some may not approve of his method but it is refreshing to see someone actually trying.
As much as I hate SOE, it's great to see someone stand up to the trolls for a change. I'm sure his boss wasn't too happy with him but by allowing the BS and personal attacks to continue, you show everyone else that you condone that behavior.
As I've been taught in the Army, any time you sincerely want to make a change, the first thing you must do is to raise your standards. Some may not approve of his method but it is refreshing to see someone actually trying.
He could have swung that mighty ban hammer he kept threatening everybody with and done just that with little to no fanfaire. This immature little punk has no business dealing with customers, or the public in general.
If SOE hasn't fired him yet, all it takes is everyone in that thread to post the snippets on every star wars game forum they find, gather enough customers to complain to SOE, and have one big "recall". He can make enough at McDonald's to feed his daughter. Thousands of people do.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
This is pure /popcorn...I can't help but keep up with it as I played SWG from beta right up to the NGE and then called it quits.
Interesting to note that after much of his ranting, many follow up posts advised him to chill out and drink some beer, but I could swear he was drunk already from all his ranting posting. And beer probably wouldn't have chilled him out that point, most likely he would have hit the beer hard and further inflamed himself. He seriously needed to hit the herb and listen to some 311 to chill out hehe.
If I was the CEO of SOE, I would be hoping that a mod locked the thread and banned this CSR after couple of replies pending internal review of his action. I would then hire that mod as the new CSR. The fact this has happened in the first place is very disturbing. Most companies (even small ones) have solid hiring procedures and internal training. The fact that this individual made it through SOE hiring procedure and did what he did make me think the company itself is having a problem. How can I trust the quality and professionalism of the developer team under such circumstances?
yes. in other words, the problem is not the pig, but with who feeds it; and we all know who that is.
I think the "highlights" you posted should be placed in every thread involving new players asking about the game. After all, Draakull is trying to bring more players in. So why not make sure they know what to expect? lol
you are welcome to copy paste them here if you like. we get a lot of visits so whomever wants to find it will.
you are welcome to join our ceremony award of asshat of the week at the solitary confinement if you like as well. you will need to register to have access tho.
Banning 90% of those rude remarks would have been the way to go.
While I have no love of either Sony nor the SWG fans, insulting a CSR is just immature and rude, and insures that whatever message they tried to advance won't be heard. Not smart.
Banning 90% of those rude remarks would have been the way to go. While I have no love of either Sony nor the SWG fans, insulting a CSR is just immature and rude, and insures that whatever message they tried to advance won't be heard. Not smart.
we must have read different remarks. out of all his replies, i think i only saw one which attacked him. the rest were complaining about the TCG and the FF.
As much as I hate SOE, it's great to see someone stand up to the trolls for a change. I'm sure his boss wasn't too happy with him but by allowing the BS and personal attacks to continue, you show everyone else that you condone that behavior.
As I've been taught in the Army, any time you sincerely want to make a change, the first thing you must do is to raise your standards. Some may not approve of his method but it is refreshing to see someone actually trying.
It isn't like this is the first time an soe employee has run off at the mouth like this towards their customers.
Why do you think this new employee thought that this was an acceptable behavior towards his customers on the first few days of the job? Why do you think past community managers/developers (various soe games) thought the same thing and had similar incidents. If his boss wasn't happy, then this guy will get fired or at least make him write up a huge mushy appology. I'm banking on nothing happening this time, because they just don't care enough anymore.
These guys are getting this mentality from somewhere and if this is how they act on their first few days, then they are picking that message up from somewhere close to home.
I'm just curious what standards are being raised when the public face of the company starts insulting the community and calling them names? I would almost think it is the exact opposite.
I have to admit to be surprised by his reaction, and the way he responded with insults and went after people. I have seen folks be more respectful after a PvP battle.
This just does nothing more then reinforce the decision I made to cancel and stop giving SOE money. I am afraid it is the only opinion that matters to them in the end. Until this practice of holding people up by the ankles so that all the lose change spills out of their pockets, I am finished with SOE. No micro transactions, no frakking card game loot superior to anything brought into the live game, no "Free Realms" that is anything but.
Maybe if this happens enough and they lose enough revenue, they will decide to change tactics. As long as money is coming in, this will always be viewed as validation.
Gone are the days of Tiggs or even Thunderheart. Man its like they dont even know how much trouble thier in. Wouldnt it be smart to start listening to the people that pay the bills? If the game was going in the right direction you would not see a reaction like this from the population. Why no one likes a TSG friday feature is appernt to everyone except the people working on SWG. The population wants some big development and real content added, not we have added in wings and a house. Its so far past due that they make an expansion, but we all know that will never happen, so why even complain anymore, it is like trying to get directions when you speak a differnt lauguage.
Interesting read. Completely bizarre responses by a "Community Manager". Has there been anything released from the SWG team at all in response to this?
Or perhaps they're not concerned about public image so much because there's not much time left for this game? A highly plausible scenario considering the recent shutdown of MxO. Devs have been minimalized, same as MxO. The thought of expansions tossed out the window, just like MxO. Content development focused on the outside card game with a few scraps thrown to the main game. And I'm willing to bet the subscriber count isn't much higher than MxO at this point.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
Originally posted by Daffid011 These guys are getting this mentality from somewhere and if this is how they act on their first few days, then they are picking that message up from somewhere close to home.
good point. His reactions are likely at least partly the result of how coworkers and superiors talk about us, making him think his public behavior is acceptable.
These guys are getting this mentality from somewhere and if this is how they act on their first few days, then they are picking that message up from somewhere close to home.
good point. His reactions are likely at least partly the result of how coworkers and superiors talk about us, making him think his public behavior is acceptable.
It's all coming from top management of course. This isn't the first or even the third time for a SOE employee to have a melt down doing a Scooby Do like "if not for you meddling kids..." type rant against the SWG players.
For Draakul to get such an attitude towards the SWG players despite confessing he wasn't experienced with the game, and certainly wasn't around for the CUNGE, he had to have been poisoned by the people who hired him. Or have other issues.
To take negative reaction to yet more TCG lottery gambling system loot PERSONALLY as he did definitely proves he doesn't have the ability to be a community manager of anything. The man needs to seek help. Seriously. I don't bear him ANY personal animus, I know he didn't do the NGE, I know he isn't responsible for the TCG wallet rape, he needs help.
That whole thread serves like many things SOE does, as a template and lesson as to how NOT to do something.
Or perhaps they're not concerned about public image so much because there's not much time left for this game? A highly plausible scenario considering the recent shutdown of MxO. Devs have been minimalized, same as MxO. The thought of expansions tossed out the window, just like MxO. Content development focused on the outside card game with a few scraps thrown to the main game. And I'm willing to bet the subscriber count isn't much higher than MxO at this point.
SWG definitely isn't a game with "years and years" ahead of it to be sure.
As I said, this isn't the first time the SOE/SWG management's contempt for the SWG player base to bubble out openly in an ugly fashion. Chris Cao, Brenlo "Pixie Pooper", Dan Rubbenfield, and others have done similar things.
Drakuul got filled with such hated for the player base apparently from his own co workers that he was armed and ready to go on the attack at the slightest provocation. If SOE wins a pissing match with their own customers, they will be the first company in history to do so.
I also question his assertion that the TCG loot is designed to attract new players. Huh? How?! That is totally illogical. Who is going to be attracted to a MMO, even a great one (much less a poor one) because of a web only based virtual card game that is a pay to play lottery? TCG doesn't even include... actual CARDS, as in ones made of paper, printed, that you can hold in your hand. It's pixels.
That is asinine. TCG is clearly aimed at existing hardcore players who are willing to pay not just for loot, but at only a random CHANCE to get the loot. Lottery tickets, in effect. It clearly exists to leech additional money as a premium on top of an already full priced subscription off serious players.
Comments
Read the highlights for yourself.
Then tell me if that is a suitable response from a community manager, regardless of what the community posts.
Maybe not, but he is a human. Something people tend to forget. a lot.
That site just confirms it, those people were bating, taunting and flaming him. Just so they could run and post everything out of context and go "SEE!!!".
Perhaps he should have just banned them? Because about 90% of the posts he was responding to, warranted it.
I read the community managers last response (lock) and the impression I got was that he hates this part of his job, but he has to do it and he knows that the community is sick of loot cards.
Then I read his responses before the thread was locked and I see exactly the same attitude this company has towards its customers for years now. Insulting the customers for not shutting up and taking whatever the company dishes out is about the most unprofessional thing he could do, but at least he is being honest. Calling people cry babies isn't his job, especially when he admitted that this was the reaction he was expecting.
Frankly this has the same exact tone soe has shown for years. Talking down towards their customers every time they do something that pisses the community off. Especially the part where he fully admits this is being done to try to attract more new players. Again with this stupid mentailty of pissing on the current players, telling them S-T-F-U and making changes geared towards the potential new player that never materializes.
I have no doubts at all that this is exactly how the staff at soe talks about the players within the office. This attitude just pops up far to often for it to be anything else.
As to your last point, yes he should just delete/ban people who break the rules, because THAT IS HIS JOB. His job is not to insult his customers and act like soe is doing them a favor with loot cards.
tsericdown.ytmnd.com/
Awesome, couldn't remember his name and it was bugging the crap out of me!
tsericdown.ytmnd.com/
Awesome, couldn't remember his name and it was bugging the crap out of me!
eh, some companies are serious... some less so...
i think the results are clearly visible.
tsericdown.ytmnd.com/
Awesome, couldn't remember his name and it was bugging the crap out of me!
eh, some companies are serious... some less so...
i think the results are clearly visible.
Can't argue with that...
Funny how that works...and how it shows in pretty much every area of a company...
10/10, would read again.
If I was the CEO of SOE, I would be hoping that a mod locked the thread and banned this CSR after couple of replies pending internal review of his action. I would then hire that mod as the new CSR. The fact this has happened in the first place is very disturbing. Most companies (even small ones) have solid hiring procedures and internal training. The fact that this individual made it through SOE hiring procedure and did what he did make me think the company itself is having a problem. How can I trust the quality and professionalism of the developer team under such circumstances?
Read the highlights for yourself.
Then tell me if that is a suitable response from a community manager, regardless of what the community posts.
Maybe not, but he is a human. Something people tend to forget. a lot.
That site just confirms it, those people were bating, taunting and flaming him. Just so they could run and post everything out of context and go "SEE!!!".
Perhaps he should have just banned them? Because about 90% of the posts he was responding to, warranted it.
You aren't allowed to be "human" in a CS position. You have to rise above it. It is part of the job description, and goes double for the Manager. Never done CS before, have you? Did it for 3 years myself, and my current job requires me to suffer fools daily. You get used to it.
I read every post he made in that thread last night, as well as the posts to which he was responding. Only ONE of them was a personal attack on him. Nobody except for the CM posted ANYTHING out of context. The rest of them were (arguably) legitimate comments regarding SOE's own rules about posting about the TCG on the main forums. Not having played the game since April 2006, when it became clear SOE was willing to flush everything away, I can't confirm whether those rules exist or not. What I can confirm is that the CM did not say anything about that - he just berated, threatened, and belittled his customers, using his position to justify it. He's a bully, plain and simple, and at any other company would have been thrown out on his arse for talking to customers that way. At SOE, though, he very much toed the company line. To paraphrase Ben Stiller in Dodgeball, "At (SOE), we're better than you. And we know it!"
There's a sucker born every minute. - P.T. Barnum
yes. in other words, the problem is not the pig, but with who feeds it; and we all know who that is.
yes. in other words, the problem is not the pig, but with who feeds it; and we all know who that is.
I think the "highlights" you posted should be placed in every thread involving new players asking about the game. After all, Draakull is trying to bring more players in. So why not make sure they know what to expect? lol
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
As much as I hate SOE, it's great to see someone stand up to the trolls for a change. I'm sure his boss wasn't too happy with him but by allowing the BS and personal attacks to continue, you show everyone else that you condone that behavior.
As I've been taught in the Army, any time you sincerely want to make a change, the first thing you must do is to raise your standards. Some may not approve of his method but it is refreshing to see someone actually trying.
He could have swung that mighty ban hammer he kept threatening everybody with and done just that with little to no fanfaire. This immature little punk has no business dealing with customers, or the public in general.
If SOE hasn't fired him yet, all it takes is everyone in that thread to post the snippets on every star wars game forum they find, gather enough customers to complain to SOE, and have one big "recall". He can make enough at McDonald's to feed his daughter. Thousands of people do.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
This is pure /popcorn...I can't help but keep up with it as I played SWG from beta right up to the NGE and then called it quits.
Interesting to note that after much of his ranting, many follow up posts advised him to chill out and drink some beer, but I could swear he was drunk already from all his ranting posting. And beer probably wouldn't have chilled him out that point, most likely he would have hit the beer hard and further inflamed himself. He seriously needed to hit the herb and listen to some 311 to chill out hehe.
yes. in other words, the problem is not the pig, but with who feeds it; and we all know who that is.
I think the "highlights" you posted should be placed in every thread involving new players asking about the game. After all, Draakull is trying to bring more players in. So why not make sure they know what to expect? lol
you are welcome to copy paste them here if you like. we get a lot of visits so whomever wants to find it will.
you are welcome to join our ceremony award of asshat of the week at the solitary confinement if you like as well. you will need to register to have access tho.
Banning 90% of those rude remarks would have been the way to go.
While I have no love of either Sony nor the SWG fans, insulting a CSR is just immature and rude, and insures that whatever message they tried to advance won't be heard. Not smart.
we must have read different remarks. out of all his replies, i think i only saw one which attacked him. the rest were complaining about the TCG and the FF.
It isn't like this is the first time an soe employee has run off at the mouth like this towards their customers.
Why do you think this new employee thought that this was an acceptable behavior towards his customers on the first few days of the job? Why do you think past community managers/developers (various soe games) thought the same thing and had similar incidents. If his boss wasn't happy, then this guy will get fired or at least make him write up a huge mushy appology. I'm banking on nothing happening this time, because they just don't care enough anymore.
These guys are getting this mentality from somewhere and if this is how they act on their first few days, then they are picking that message up from somewhere close to home.
I'm just curious what standards are being raised when the public face of the company starts insulting the community and calling them names? I would almost think it is the exact opposite.
I have to admit to be surprised by his reaction, and the way he responded with insults and went after people. I have seen folks be more respectful after a PvP battle.
This just does nothing more then reinforce the decision I made to cancel and stop giving SOE money. I am afraid it is the only opinion that matters to them in the end. Until this practice of holding people up by the ankles so that all the lose change spills out of their pockets, I am finished with SOE. No micro transactions, no frakking card game loot superior to anything brought into the live game, no "Free Realms" that is anything but.
Maybe if this happens enough and they lose enough revenue, they will decide to change tactics. As long as money is coming in, this will always be viewed as validation.
Interesting read. Completely bizarre responses by a "Community Manager". Has there been anything released from the SWG team at all in response to this?
Or perhaps they're not concerned about public image so much because there's not much time left for this game? A highly plausible scenario considering the recent shutdown of MxO. Devs have been minimalized, same as MxO. The thought of expansions tossed out the window, just like MxO. Content development focused on the outside card game with a few scraps thrown to the main game. And I'm willing to bet the subscriber count isn't much higher than MxO at this point.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
good point. His reactions are likely at least partly the result of how coworkers and superiors talk about us, making him think his public behavior is acceptable.
good point. His reactions are likely at least partly the result of how coworkers and superiors talk about us, making him think his public behavior is acceptable.
It's all coming from top management of course. This isn't the first or even the third time for a SOE employee to have a melt down doing a Scooby Do like "if not for you meddling kids..." type rant against the SWG players.
For Draakul to get such an attitude towards the SWG players despite confessing he wasn't experienced with the game, and certainly wasn't around for the CUNGE, he had to have been poisoned by the people who hired him. Or have other issues.
To take negative reaction to yet more TCG lottery gambling system loot PERSONALLY as he did definitely proves he doesn't have the ability to be a community manager of anything. The man needs to seek help. Seriously. I don't bear him ANY personal animus, I know he didn't do the NGE, I know he isn't responsible for the TCG wallet rape, he needs help.
That whole thread serves like many things SOE does, as a template and lesson as to how NOT to do something.
SWG definitely isn't a game with "years and years" ahead of it to be sure.
As I said, this isn't the first time the SOE/SWG management's contempt for the SWG player base to bubble out openly in an ugly fashion. Chris Cao, Brenlo "Pixie Pooper", Dan Rubbenfield, and others have done similar things.
Drakuul got filled with such hated for the player base apparently from his own co workers that he was armed and ready to go on the attack at the slightest provocation. If SOE wins a pissing match with their own customers, they will be the first company in history to do so.
I also question his assertion that the TCG loot is designed to attract new players. Huh? How?! That is totally illogical. Who is going to be attracted to a MMO, even a great one (much less a poor one) because of a web only based virtual card game that is a pay to play lottery? TCG doesn't even include... actual CARDS, as in ones made of paper, printed, that you can hold in your hand. It's pixels.
That is asinine. TCG is clearly aimed at existing hardcore players who are willing to pay not just for loot, but at only a random CHANCE to get the loot. Lottery tickets, in effect. It clearly exists to leech additional money as a premium on top of an already full priced subscription off serious players.
numbkull has no idea what he is talking about.
the community went easy on him - if he was questionned to explain how the TCG attracts players to SWG he would not know what to say.
you need a License to drive a car but anyone can have children......