Not trying to be "tough" (I'll leave that to you kids) just making a point. Of course the community matters, never said it didn't. With the comment above, I guess we can see how YOU behave online, lmao. Grow up kid. That just brings up another bit of irony... how immaturely people complain about immaturity! Could you follow that??
Originally posted by tepthtanis Just what I thought Templarga and Jason_Webb...Wow is losing faith...Joining a guild is like signing a death warrent. U will try to help but get nowhere. There isn't a guild out there that doesn't have it's own interest's in mind...
You say these things as if they are a typical experience for everyone, but that is just you projecting your own views. Being in a guild has been the saving grace for me in wow, there is no way i would have stayed in the game as long as i have without decent players alongside me. Community is a big thing for me in any MMO, ever since i first played Earth and Beyond which had a fantastic community, so much so that i still chat with a couple of the guys i played alongside nearly five years after it closed down.
I am currently in a guild run by a husband and wife with the social aspects of the game being paramount to all in there. We run HC's, we raid a little dabbling in OS and Naxx, but first and foremost it is about the enjoyment of the game as a whole and socialising with like minded people. We also chat outside the game via facebook or e-mail which just extends the social vibe even more.
The wow community is at the end of the day what you make of it yourself, can't put it any simpler than that.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
Just what I thought Templarga and Jason_Webb...Wow is losing faith...Joining a guild is like signing a death warrent. U will try to help but get nowhere. There isn't a guild out there that doesn't have it's own interest's in mind...
You say these things as if they are a typical experience for everyone, but that is just you projecting your own views. Being in a guild has been the saving grace for me in wow, there is no way i would have stayed in the game as long as i have without decent players alongside me. Community is a big thing for me in any MMO, ever since i first played Earth and Beyond which had a fantastic community, so much so that i still chat with a couple of the guys i played alongside nearly five years after it closed down.
I am currently in a guild run by a husband and wife with the social aspects of the game being paramount to all in there. We run HC's, we raid a little dabbling in OS and Naxx, but first and foremost it is about the enjoyment of the game as a whole and socialising with like minded people. We also chat outside the game via facebook or e-mail which just extends the social vibe even more.
The wow community is at the end of the day what you make of it yourself, can't put it any simpler than that.
As highlighted in red, truer words were never said. Thanks for that. I totally agree with the above post, you are lucky to have a good guild around you. For me, however, the community at large plays an important group as well or you might as well just be playing and communicating sorely with your guildies.
I really think it must be hard having to deal with the WoW community....go check out their forums on the new changes to forms for Druids. Although a little overdue, still people are complaining and moaning because they don't like the new forms. Instead of being so selfish....think that the Devs have done well to makes these changes in the first place and you can enjoy some visual variety. Sorry...I'm ranting a little, just Blizzard is trying hard to please the Druid populace and still some people do nothing but bad rant and say: "You suck."
There are a lot of a thoughtful and thought provoking posts within this thread, and as many have said, there are some hot-button issues discussed within the thread. There is one issue though, that grinds my nerves to no end: The casual-vs-hardcore debate.
The casual vs. hardcore debate rages on here, as it does on the main WoW forums. I will be the first to admit that I am one of those dreaded casual players who plays when life allows it. Sometimes I can get a couple of hours play time per night, sometimes I can a go a week or more without playing; it all depends on the various ups and downs of my schedule. I have been playing WoW this way almost four years now, and I've been in four guilds during that entire time. The first two met their demise at the hands of a guild leader who wasn't satisfied, and wanted something more so he switched from Alliance to Horde (with many of us following him) and then ultimately transferred off server. The third guild was disbanded in the middle of the night by the guild leader, and the fourth guild is my current guild.
Why tell you all this? Perhaps to put an end to the myth that all casuals are guild hoppers, loot divas, and whining babies.
I know my schedule, I let my guild leader(s) know my schedule and never will I sign up for a guild event when I don't know if I will be able to attend. I never asked for loot, never once whined about not receiving gear and was content with questing if no one was able to run an instance. Yet I still end up dealing with the stigma of being a "casual player". I read many forums daily and I see how angry much of the WoW player base gets at the casuals, in fact, I have been angry at the casuals who demanded equal gear for less time. I didn't want that, I wanted and still want to earn my gear. I don't want free epics, nor do I want a game to cater to my playstyle. I want to walk through any city and be in awe of the gear I see on the players who have the time and the ability to run Ulduar, or any end-game instance/raid.
In game, I'm friendly to a fault and will help anyone who needs it. I keep up to date on my gear choices, spec, and put everything I can into making sure that I am well geared for my level and for the gear I have. I don't beg, I never have and never will. I play WoW mainly with my husband and some friends, some of whom I know only in game and others I know out of game.
With that said, and to get the post back on topic; I personally do not think the community as a whole is awful. I do think that the bad-(in many ways beyond just skill)-players far out weigh the good players, but I think a lot of that can be contributed to the amount of players as a whole within WoW. I've played many MMOs, starting with EQ and moving through a gammut of games: EQ, EQ2, LoTRO, DnD Online, CoH/CoV, Guild Wars, WoW, and so on. Still, I come back to WoW at least for now. Yes, the community has gotten worse in the sense of blatant violations and the attitudes of many and yes WoW has earned a name for itself amongst many MMORPG players as the game to avoid unless you want to witness the worst of humanity. (Sorry, I can't speak for Darkfall as I haven't tried that one yet and do not plan too.)
Still, I manage to have fun and meet new people every day. I personally believe that the community in any game is what you make of it and how you take part within the community. I've seen the smallest of guilds have a huge impact upon a server because they welcome new players and do their best to be inviting. I've seen large guilds go down infamy and end up being chased off a server because they refuse to do anything more than "troll" the server and brag about their accomplishments. I have seen servers where anything goes and no one talks or does anything with anyone outside of guild mates. Each of these communities is vastly different, and yet each one offers something to the players who want it and enjoy it.
If trade chat bothers you, turn it off or place it within another window and don't bother with it unless you need an item or services of another crafting profession. Try giving back to your community, and see what happens. If a newbie is being chastised and treated like pond scum because they ask a question; then try to help that newbie. I've chastised people for acting like jerks in chat and there is nothing more rewarding than seeing a "troll" shut down by a group of people; and then seeing the community band together to help the new player. It happens, its rare, but it does happen from time to time. I've been witness to and on the receiving end of help from my own guild mates when my husband and I lost power for a week due to a storm. I've been humbled and honored by their concern when my son had an emergency appendectomy in January and further more when they prayed-(despite none of them being all that religious)-for him as he underwent many medical tests recently.
In closing, I wish you the best OP and hope you and any others who have left for another game; find what you are looking for in a gaming community. Just remember, that its not always the casual-vs-hardcore debate, and sometimes you have to be a part of the community to really see just how good it can be.
The problem stems from 2 things that people have mentioned many, many times.
Parents aren't raising their children worth a crap and let TV and the Internet do all the work for them. Thus, the average American teenager has absolutely no desire to respect the time spent and desire for enjoyment from the game that others are seeking that play along side of them.
The second part is that the game actively promotes solo play for initial leveling and gearing, and Blizzard has made instance running mind-numbingly easy for hyperactive nitwits to beat them and move on. Thus, most of the players don't have to give a crap about how they treat others or their in-game character reputation as there's plenty of other noobs to PUG encounters with.
Say what you want about Everquest, Dark Age of Camelot, and Final Fantasy XI (that last game with its initial release). The concept of forced grouping MADE players give a rat's ass about respecting the other players and being up front with time they had available for play, etc. If you were an asshat player, you went on a list and people made it their business to keep you out of their leveling groups. Which would force you to join a guild to level if you weren't in one already, and get a second chance at not treating THEM like dirt as well.
The problem with "forcing" players to group up and deal with each other is that it makes for a very crappy game.
Bored with nothing to do at 5am server time? Sorry you cant play your favorite game because you need to have a group to level and everyone else is asleep. You just got out of work and are tired and wanna play for a bit? well time to get ready to wait and look for a group, o yea thats fun...
So what if you are an ass to other players because they suck at the game and you dont (or at least you think you dont.) you shouldn't have to sugar coat it to them or hold their hand though a terrible Dungeon/Instance/Raid, WoW is a game that is defined by its seperation of Scrubs and Elitest, you can completely ignore everyone not in your guild if needs be (which quite frankly most do.) and this is some how a problem? I think if most people could /ignore IRL they would certain people.
MMOs that force group work during the leveling stage either 1. Don't have an endgame worth getting to so they make it as difficult as possible to obtain max level. 2. Can't balance classes to be able to solo past the entry level game play, and not be gamebreakingly powerful at endgame.
What WoW does have over these other games is time, and the willingness to modify the game to make it less troublesome on areas that are frankly a grind.
Comments
I think u r picking on me because I have a cooler skull than u do.
Played Wow, D and L, AOC, GW, Eve, Rift and many more insignificant games.
Not trying to be "tough" (I'll leave that to you kids) just making a point. Of course the community matters, never said it didn't. With the comment above, I guess we can see how YOU behave online, lmao. Grow up kid. That just brings up another bit of irony... how immaturely people complain about immaturity! Could you follow that??
Z
http://www.TheIronZ.com
You say these things as if they are a typical experience for everyone, but that is just you projecting your own views. Being in a guild has been the saving grace for me in wow, there is no way i would have stayed in the game as long as i have without decent players alongside me. Community is a big thing for me in any MMO, ever since i first played Earth and Beyond which had a fantastic community, so much so that i still chat with a couple of the guys i played alongside nearly five years after it closed down.
I am currently in a guild run by a husband and wife with the social aspects of the game being paramount to all in there. We run HC's, we raid a little dabbling in OS and Naxx, but first and foremost it is about the enjoyment of the game as a whole and socialising with like minded people. We also chat outside the game via facebook or e-mail which just extends the social vibe even more.
The wow community is at the end of the day what you make of it yourself, can't put it any simpler than that.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
You say these things as if they are a typical experience for everyone, but that is just you projecting your own views. Being in a guild has been the saving grace for me in wow, there is no way i would have stayed in the game as long as i have without decent players alongside me. Community is a big thing for me in any MMO, ever since i first played Earth and Beyond which had a fantastic community, so much so that i still chat with a couple of the guys i played alongside nearly five years after it closed down.
I am currently in a guild run by a husband and wife with the social aspects of the game being paramount to all in there. We run HC's, we raid a little dabbling in OS and Naxx, but first and foremost it is about the enjoyment of the game as a whole and socialising with like minded people. We also chat outside the game via facebook or e-mail which just extends the social vibe even more.
The wow community is at the end of the day what you make of it yourself, can't put it any simpler than that.
As highlighted in red, truer words were never said. Thanks for that. I totally agree with the above post, you are lucky to have a good guild around you. For me, however, the community at large plays an important group as well or you might as well just be playing and communicating sorely with your guildies.
I really think it must be hard having to deal with the WoW community....go check out their forums on the new changes to forms for Druids. Although a little overdue, still people are complaining and moaning because they don't like the new forms. Instead of being so selfish....think that the Devs have done well to makes these changes in the first place and you can enjoy some visual variety. Sorry...I'm ranting a little, just Blizzard is trying hard to please the Druid populace and still some people do nothing but bad rant and say: "You suck."
There are a lot of a thoughtful and thought provoking posts within this thread, and as many have said, there are some hot-button issues discussed within the thread. There is one issue though, that grinds my nerves to no end: The casual-vs-hardcore debate.
The casual vs. hardcore debate rages on here, as it does on the main WoW forums. I will be the first to admit that I am one of those dreaded casual players who plays when life allows it. Sometimes I can get a couple of hours play time per night, sometimes I can a go a week or more without playing; it all depends on the various ups and downs of my schedule. I have been playing WoW this way almost four years now, and I've been in four guilds during that entire time. The first two met their demise at the hands of a guild leader who wasn't satisfied, and wanted something more so he switched from Alliance to Horde (with many of us following him) and then ultimately transferred off server. The third guild was disbanded in the middle of the night by the guild leader, and the fourth guild is my current guild.
Why tell you all this? Perhaps to put an end to the myth that all casuals are guild hoppers, loot divas, and whining babies.
I know my schedule, I let my guild leader(s) know my schedule and never will I sign up for a guild event when I don't know if I will be able to attend. I never asked for loot, never once whined about not receiving gear and was content with questing if no one was able to run an instance. Yet I still end up dealing with the stigma of being a "casual player". I read many forums daily and I see how angry much of the WoW player base gets at the casuals, in fact, I have been angry at the casuals who demanded equal gear for less time. I didn't want that, I wanted and still want to earn my gear. I don't want free epics, nor do I want a game to cater to my playstyle. I want to walk through any city and be in awe of the gear I see on the players who have the time and the ability to run Ulduar, or any end-game instance/raid.
In game, I'm friendly to a fault and will help anyone who needs it. I keep up to date on my gear choices, spec, and put everything I can into making sure that I am well geared for my level and for the gear I have. I don't beg, I never have and never will. I play WoW mainly with my husband and some friends, some of whom I know only in game and others I know out of game.
With that said, and to get the post back on topic; I personally do not think the community as a whole is awful. I do think that the bad-(in many ways beyond just skill)-players far out weigh the good players, but I think a lot of that can be contributed to the amount of players as a whole within WoW. I've played many MMOs, starting with EQ and moving through a gammut of games: EQ, EQ2, LoTRO, DnD Online, CoH/CoV, Guild Wars, WoW, and so on. Still, I come back to WoW at least for now. Yes, the community has gotten worse in the sense of blatant violations and the attitudes of many and yes WoW has earned a name for itself amongst many MMORPG players as the game to avoid unless you want to witness the worst of humanity. (Sorry, I can't speak for Darkfall as I haven't tried that one yet and do not plan too.)
Still, I manage to have fun and meet new people every day. I personally believe that the community in any game is what you make of it and how you take part within the community. I've seen the smallest of guilds have a huge impact upon a server because they welcome new players and do their best to be inviting. I've seen large guilds go down infamy and end up being chased off a server because they refuse to do anything more than "troll" the server and brag about their accomplishments. I have seen servers where anything goes and no one talks or does anything with anyone outside of guild mates. Each of these communities is vastly different, and yet each one offers something to the players who want it and enjoy it.
If trade chat bothers you, turn it off or place it within another window and don't bother with it unless you need an item or services of another crafting profession. Try giving back to your community, and see what happens. If a newbie is being chastised and treated like pond scum because they ask a question; then try to help that newbie. I've chastised people for acting like jerks in chat and there is nothing more rewarding than seeing a "troll" shut down by a group of people; and then seeing the community band together to help the new player. It happens, its rare, but it does happen from time to time. I've been witness to and on the receiving end of help from my own guild mates when my husband and I lost power for a week due to a storm. I've been humbled and honored by their concern when my son had an emergency appendectomy in January and further more when they prayed-(despite none of them being all that religious)-for him as he underwent many medical tests recently.
In closing, I wish you the best OP and hope you and any others who have left for another game; find what you are looking for in a gaming community. Just remember, that its not always the casual-vs-hardcore debate, and sometimes you have to be a part of the community to really see just how good it can be.
Kith
Well spoken
5
I agree with the original poster.
The problem stems from 2 things that people have mentioned many, many times.
Parents aren't raising their children worth a crap and let TV and the Internet do all the work for them. Thus, the average American teenager has absolutely no desire to respect the time spent and desire for enjoyment from the game that others are seeking that play along side of them.
The second part is that the game actively promotes solo play for initial leveling and gearing, and Blizzard has made instance running mind-numbingly easy for hyperactive nitwits to beat them and move on. Thus, most of the players don't have to give a crap about how they treat others or their in-game character reputation as there's plenty of other noobs to PUG encounters with.
Say what you want about Everquest, Dark Age of Camelot, and Final Fantasy XI (that last game with its initial release). The concept of forced grouping MADE players give a rat's ass about respecting the other players and being up front with time they had available for play, etc. If you were an asshat player, you went on a list and people made it their business to keep you out of their leveling groups. Which would force you to join a guild to level if you weren't in one already, and get a second chance at not treating THEM like dirt as well.
The grouchy old man has spoken.
The problem with "forcing" players to group up and deal with each other is that it makes for a very crappy game.
Bored with nothing to do at 5am server time? Sorry you cant play your favorite game because you need to have a group to level and everyone else is asleep. You just got out of work and are tired and wanna play for a bit? well time to get ready to wait and look for a group, o yea thats fun...
So what if you are an ass to other players because they suck at the game and you dont (or at least you think you dont.) you shouldn't have to sugar coat it to them or hold their hand though a terrible Dungeon/Instance/Raid, WoW is a game that is defined by its seperation of Scrubs and Elitest, you can completely ignore everyone not in your guild if needs be (which quite frankly most do.) and this is some how a problem? I think if most people could /ignore IRL they would certain people.
MMOs that force group work during the leveling stage either 1. Don't have an endgame worth getting to so they make it as difficult as possible to obtain max level. 2. Can't balance classes to be able to solo past the entry level game play, and not be gamebreakingly powerful at endgame.
What WoW does have over these other games is time, and the willingness to modify the game to make it less troublesome on areas that are frankly a grind.