Like some of you may, I work in the industry, managing both subscription and free to play games.. and I'll take a solid F2P game over a solid P2P game anyday.
A lot of ignorance in this thread. I especially like the "simple formula" which explains how F2P games are "nowhere" near as profitable. Good thing we don't actually have access to profitability data for the major F2P MM . . . oh wait, we do. Even Chinese companies disclose that kind of data.
Aside from WoW, the top tier of F2P MMO's blow away their Western counterparts in terms of profitability.
Why pull ideas out of your ass that are potentially demonstrably false, when you could confirm (or in this case reject) your ideas with a five second Google search? I guess some people are too smart to need that. Prescience over all matters financial, requiring only a few simplistic high school level math equations and a massive ego. Sign me up too.
A lot of ignorance in this thread. I especially like the "simple formula" which explains how F2P games are "nowhere" near as profitable. Good thing we don't actually have access to profitability data for the major F2P MM . . . oh wait, we do. Even Chinese companies disclose that kind of data. Aside from WoW, the top tier of F2P MMO's blow away their Western counterparts in terms of profitability. Why pull ideas out of your ass that are potentially demonstrably false, when you could confirm (or in this case reject) your ideas with a five second Google search? I guess some people are too smart to need that. Prescience over all matters financial, requiring only a few simplistic high school level math equations and a massive ego. Sign me up too.
Please quote where I said that, PLEASE QUOTE IT.
Per user profit is what I was talking about, and that formula is perfectly accurate using well know public figures for average revenue per user, percentage of paying users and subscription fees.
Feel free to google your own figures for each variable and type them in, you will see it works.
God, read the damn post before you reply, or you make an ass out of yourself for assuming things.
Well, I would like to just refer you to this article: http://gigaom.com/2009/02/01/top-10-money-making-mmos-2008/ Particularly, 2, 3, 4, 6, and 7 on the list. Like some of you may, I work in the industry, managing both subscription and free to play games.. and I'll take a solid F2P game over a solid P2P game anyday.
There are a few issues with that article, the first is that it compares individual games to entire companies, they really need to break it down to one or the other.
There are a few issues with that article, the first is that it compares individual games to entire companies, they really need to break it down to one or the other. The second is that Aion is missing
True. However, they only do that once, and Lineage is summed for the 2 games instead of each. My point is still valid.
Aion will suprise a lot of people. It will do ok, but it will not be the industry saver that it is being hyped up to be. My opinion, of course.
A lot of ignorance in this thread. I especially like the "simple formula" which explains how F2P games are "nowhere" near as profitable. Good thing we don't actually have access to profitability data for the major F2P MM . . . oh wait, we do. Even Chinese companies disclose that kind of data. Aside from WoW, the top tier of F2P MMO's blow away their Western counterparts in terms of profitability. Why pull ideas out of your ass that are potentially demonstrably false, when you could confirm (or in this case reject) your ideas with a five second Google search? I guess some people are too smart to need that. Prescience over all matters financial, requiring only a few simplistic high school level math equations and a massive ego. Sign me up too.
Please quote where I said that, PLEASE QUOTE IT.
Per user profitis what I was talking about, and that formula is perfectly accurate using well know public figures for average revenue per user, percentage of paying users and subscription fees.
Feel free to google your own figures for each variable and type them in, you will see it works.
God, read the damn post before you reply, or you make an ass out of yourself for assuming things.
No business will only look at per user profit. It is return on investment and pure profit that they care about. If I can invest 50M and get 100M profit every year, do I really care whether i am generating it from 50k customers or 1M customers? Not really.
I wonder if sustained profit is the real reason for the surge in F2P/RMT? It seems open to debate that they do produce more revenue. I think such titles, which have far less content and therefore development costs are a much lower risk to investors.
Funding is a problem in MMO’s, and producing MMO’s which cost less to make is a way round that.
I wonder if sustained profit is the real reason for the surge in F2P/RMT?
They're very profitable. The reason they are very profitable is because they are extremely popular. The free player benefits from a free game , the paying player benefits from having the ability to buy stuff that he finds fun to buy, and both groups benefit from active healthy server pops. It's a win-win situation for the players and a winning situation for the devs.
F2P games often have lots of xp boost weekends, dev-run events, seasonal and specialty short-term quests/themes, and plenty of extras to entertain the free players so that they stick around. I'd go as far to say that many F2P MMOs offer more regular activities and changing content than most P2P MMOs.
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
If a Free to play game's ARPU is lower than $15 than I'd say their marketing team/management teams are doing something wrong.
A Free to play publisher/developer needs to learn what their target market needs/wants are and market/drive content according to that.
The reason why so many F2P games are crap is a bigger debate on it's own. That requries a deep analysis of where F2P games started coming from and why they have a lack of content. This debate honestly cannot be argued by those who are not actually working in the online gaming industry.
Many people don't realize that even in the Western markets that we're already used to a Micro-Transaction lifestyle. I believe someone showed a good analysis of Trading Card Games, such as the Magic series. You continuously pay for booster packs to make your deck even stronger. There are more examples, but you get the picture.
Edit: I find it funny how now one has even mentioned SOE's Free Realms. They offer a F2P/Subscription Hybrid model. Some say the game is fun, others say it's not their cup of tea. I'd like to see some numbers being released by their team. However, I feel that SOE should hire some Micro-Transaction specialists, because their Premium shop needs a lot of work.
Comments
Well, I would like to just refer you to this article:
http://gigaom.com/2009/02/01/top-10-money-making-mmos-2008/
Particularly, 2, 3, 4, 6, and 7 on the list.
Like some of you may, I work in the industry, managing both subscription and free to play games.. and I'll take a solid F2P game over a solid P2P game anyday.
A lot of ignorance in this thread. I especially like the "simple formula" which explains how F2P games are "nowhere" near as profitable. Good thing we don't actually have access to profitability data for the major F2P MM . . . oh wait, we do. Even Chinese companies disclose that kind of data.
Aside from WoW, the top tier of F2P MMO's blow away their Western counterparts in terms of profitability.
Why pull ideas out of your ass that are potentially demonstrably false, when you could confirm (or in this case reject) your ideas with a five second Google search? I guess some people are too smart to need that. Prescience over all matters financial, requiring only a few simplistic high school level math equations and a massive ego. Sign me up too.
PWRD and CYOU are two F2P developers on the NASDAQ. Check them out. They are crushing this recession.
Please quote where I said that, PLEASE QUOTE IT.
Per user profit is what I was talking about, and that formula is perfectly accurate using well know public figures for average revenue per user, percentage of paying users and subscription fees.
Feel free to google your own figures for each variable and type them in, you will see it works.
God, read the damn post before you reply, or you make an ass out of yourself for assuming things.
There are a few issues with that article, the first is that it compares individual games to entire companies, they really need to break it down to one or the other.
The second is that Aion is missing
True. However, they only do that once, and Lineage is summed for the 2 games instead of each. My point is still valid.
Aion will suprise a lot of people. It will do ok, but it will not be the industry saver that it is being hyped up to be. My opinion, of course.
Please quote where I said that, PLEASE QUOTE IT.
Per user profit is what I was talking about, and that formula is perfectly accurate using well know public figures for average revenue per user, percentage of paying users and subscription fees.
Feel free to google your own figures for each variable and type them in, you will see it works.
God, read the damn post before you reply, or you make an ass out of yourself for assuming things.
No business will only look at per user profit. It is return on investment and pure profit that they care about. If I can invest 50M and get 100M profit every year, do I really care whether i am generating it from 50k customers or 1M customers? Not really.
I wonder if sustained profit is the real reason for the surge in F2P/RMT? It seems open to debate that they do produce more revenue. I think such titles, which have far less content and therefore development costs are a much lower risk to investors.
Funding is a problem in MMO’s, and producing MMO’s which cost less to make is a way round that.
They're very profitable. The reason they are very profitable is because they are extremely popular. The free player benefits from a free game , the paying player benefits from having the ability to buy stuff that he finds fun to buy, and both groups benefit from active healthy server pops. It's a win-win situation for the players and a winning situation for the devs.
F2P games often have lots of xp boost weekends, dev-run events, seasonal and specialty short-term quests/themes, and plenty of extras to entertain the free players so that they stick around. I'd go as far to say that many F2P MMOs offer more regular activities and changing content than most P2P MMOs.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
If a Free to play game's ARPU is lower than $15 than I'd say their marketing team/management teams are doing something wrong.
A Free to play publisher/developer needs to learn what their target market needs/wants are and market/drive content according to that.
The reason why so many F2P games are crap is a bigger debate on it's own. That requries a deep analysis of where F2P games started coming from and why they have a lack of content. This debate honestly cannot be argued by those who are not actually working in the online gaming industry.
Many people don't realize that even in the Western markets that we're already used to a Micro-Transaction lifestyle. I believe someone showed a good analysis of Trading Card Games, such as the Magic series. You continuously pay for booster packs to make your deck even stronger. There are more examples, but you get the picture.
Edit: I find it funny how now one has even mentioned SOE's Free Realms. They offer a F2P/Subscription Hybrid model. Some say the game is fun, others say it's not their cup of tea. I'd like to see some numbers being released by their team. However, I feel that SOE should hire some Micro-Transaction specialists, because their Premium shop needs a lot of work.
~Webby "This MMO needs more dead bird."
