Well, I'm no business expert, but I don't see how doing this could hurt them since this game has to pretty much be on it's last leg anyway and there are probably more people interested in playing pre-CU than the game in it's current state. Of course maybe I'm wrong, like I said, I'm no expert.
It would take a lot of development and IT work hours to get pre-cu realms up and running, simple as that. It is counterproductive, they will not do it.
Why says "It would take a lot of development and IT work hours to get pre-cu realms up and running"?
Are you a designer? Are you a programmer? Do you work in a server room?
Both Jeff Freeman, the former Lead Producer, and Dan Rubenfield, former SWG Senior Designer, said that the pre-NGE code still exists. That means Smedley needs only to order that code to be fed into a server box and that box turned on. And then, bingo!, pre-NGE SWG would return and Smedley would be hailed as the most visionary genius in the online gaming industry since Marie Curie!
Well, I'm no business expert, but I don't see how doing this could hurt them since this game has to pretty much be on it's last leg anyway and there are probably more people interested in playing pre-CU than the game in it's current state. Of course maybe I'm wrong, like I said, I'm no expert.
It would take a lot of development and IT work hours to get pre-cu realms up and running, simple as that. It is counterproductive, they will not do it.
Why says "It would take a lot of development and IT work hours to get pre-cu realms up and running"?
Are you a designer? Are you a programmer? Do you work in a server room?
Both Jeff Freeman, the former Lead Producer, and Dan Rubenfield, former SWG Senior Designer, said that the pre-NGE code still exists. That means Smedley needs only to order that code to be fed into a server box and that box turned on. And then, bingo!, pre-NGE SWG would return and Smedley would be hailed as the most visionary genius in the online gaming industry since Marie Curie!
The problem is that most of the devs from that time are no longer with SOE.
They don't have the expertise anymore to support and maintain pre-NGE servers.
If something is crazy expensive, then that is to re-educate developers into old code and them being able to do something with it. Just the time it takes to get them up to speed and ready to do something with it, would take us beyond the release date of SW:TOR!
Then you have the problem that they have to maintain and update two sets of code.
Because if you believe it or not, there are people that enjoy the current NGE game.
And telling them to go screw themselves and take a hike in favor of pre-NGE servers would make you NO different than John Smedly himself.
The numbers should be attractive to Smedley if he charged $15 a month for a minimum three month contract plus a $20 fee for 'installation software' (ie. the price you had to pay to redownload the old game from his site)
I would venture that ten thousand people would sign up to those terms. Is that too many ? Too few?
So - that (10,000 x 15 x 3) + (10,000 x 20)
= $650,000
Six hundred and fifty thousand smackeroos out of a code he already has and launched from a server base that's already in place to a consumer segment that he knows wants to buy it!
Even if you take off $150,000 for 'costs', that's half a million bucks free money!
And even if only five thousand people kept on playing in three- month increments that's still an income of $225,000 every quarter indefinitely!
The problem is that most of the devs from that time are no longer with SOE. They don't have the expertise anymore to support and maintain pre-NGE servers. If something is crazy expensive, then that is to re-educate developers into old code and them being able to do something with it. Just the time it takes to get them up to speed and ready to do something with it, would take us beyond the release date of SW:TOR! Then you have the problem that they have to maintain and update two sets of code. Because if you believe it or not, there are people that enjoy the current NGE game. And telling them to go screw themselves and take a hike in favor of pre-NGE servers would make you NO different than John Smedly himself. Cheers
No, all your objections are easily overcome.
Firslty, I am not saying 'Bring back Pre-NGE game to replace the current NGE game'. No, if poeople like the NGE game, then let them continue playing it. I am just recommending the opening of one or two Pre-NGE servers to run alongside the existing game. And before you say, how can there possibly be two versions of the game, then go and look at DAoC which runs two versions together perfectly happily - I believe, in fact, the classic DAoC is actually more popular than the modern version.
Secondly, true it would be exceptionally expensive to get Koster and Walton back to work on the game, even if they were needed. But I'm suggesting they wouldn't be needed. The pre-NGE game worked perfectly well right up to and after the launch of the third expansion. All SOE needs to do is run that code. It exists. It works. It's already been played.
Thirdly, I am suggesting that the code is stable enough to run pretty much as it is, unsupported and unbugged. Would people be prepared to play such a game? Hmmm, all I can say is that enjoyed the pre-NGE sandbox game so much that I personally would do so. And if, just to keep it running, the game did need support, then as Smedley as always said he would do - quite presciently as it turns out - then all he needs to do is hire some of the boys working on the EMU. They know the code. They understand the dynamics. They love the game. AND THEY'RE CURRENTLY DOING IT FOR FREE!
Well, I'm no business expert, but I don't see how doing this could hurt them since this game has to pretty much be on it's last leg anyway and there are probably more people interested in playing pre-CU than the game in it's current state. Of course maybe I'm wrong, like I said, I'm no expert.
It would take a lot of development and IT work hours to get pre-cu realms up and running, simple as that. It is counterproductive, they will not do it.
Why says "It would take a lot of development and IT work hours to get pre-cu realms up and running"?
Are you a designer? Are you a programmer? Do you work in a server room?
Both Jeff Freeman, the former Lead Producer, and Dan Rubenfield, former SWG Senior Designer, said that the pre-NGE code still exists. That means Smedley needs only to order that code to be fed into a server box and that box turned on. And then, bingo!, pre-NGE SWG would return and Smedley would be hailed as the most visionary genius in the online gaming industry since Marie Curie!
I am programmer, and I've done my fair share of work in server rooms. Yes, any software house will most likely have all of their previous code builds stored somewhere. What you said about just turning 'the old code on' is wrong, wrong wrong.
Bringing an old build live is not as simple as 'turning it on'. I'm sure the quality standards are not the same, and also due to infrastructure changes, most likely extensive code changes will be required.
I am programmer, and I've done my fair share of work in server rooms. Yes, any software house will most likely have all of their previous code builds stored somewhere. What you said about just turning 'the old coe on' is wrong, wrong wrong.
Bringing an old build live is not as simple as 'turning it on'. I'm sure the quality standards are not the same, and also due to infrastructure changes, most likely extensive code changes will be required.
God I hope not. PLEASE SOE/LA do NOT put back Pre-CU content. It was horrible. Now, if you want to put in the PRE-CU Class system, into today's SWG game then please, do! But leave all the content, leave all the new bg's, instances and changes but just put back the old class system and I would be happier then a pig in dirt. But no thanks to going back to the days of solo groups, rancor lair grinding and silly merchant days where people grind out professions just to unlock jedi. Put in the old class system, leave Jedi in as one of the master classes via Master Brawler, TKM, and Fencer and balance all the defense bonuses from things like the pistoleer tree, rifleman tree and KD/Dizzy's to seperate trees so we don't have the old template stacking issues and call it done!
The problem is that most of the devs from that time are no longer with SOE. They don't have the expertise anymore to support and maintain pre-NGE servers. If something is crazy expensive, then that is to re-educate developers into old code and them being able to do something with it. Just the time it takes to get them up to speed and ready to do something with it, would take us beyond the release date of SW:TOR! Then you have the problem that they have to maintain and update two sets of code. Because if you believe it or not, there are people that enjoy the current NGE game. And telling them to go screw themselves and take a hike in favor of pre-NGE servers would make you NO different than John Smedly himself. Cheers
No, all your objections are easily overcome.
Firslty, I am not saying 'Bring back Pre-NGE game to replace the current NGE game'. No, if poeople like the NGE game, then let them continue playing it. I am just recommending the opening of one or two Pre-NGE servers to run alongside the existing game. And before you say, how can there possibly be two versions of the game, then go and look at DAoC which runs two versions together perfectly happily - I believe, in fact, the classic DAoC is actually more popular than the modern version.
Secondly, true it would be exceptionally expensive to get Koster and Walton back to work on the game, even if they were needed. But I'm suggesting they wouldn't be needed. The pre-NGE game worked perfectly well right up to and after the launch of the third expansion. All SOE needs to do is run that code. It exists. It works. It's already been played.
Thirdly, I am suggesting that the code is stable enough to run pretty much as it is, unsupported and unbugged. Would people be prepared to play such a game? Hmmm, all I can say is that enjoyed the pre-NGE sandbox game so much that I personally would do so. And if, just to keep it running, the game did need support, then as Smedley as always said he would do - quite presciently as it turns out - then all he needs to do is hire some of the boys working on the EMU. They know the code. They understand the dynamics. They love the game. AND THEY'RE CURRENTLY DOING IT FOR FREE!
WHAHAHA! Perfect? Perfect my rear butt!
Seriously, how much I did love the pre-NGE game... FACT is that it was plagued by a rampant amount of bugs.
Such an ammount of bugs, NO ONE would be willing to be put up with TODAY! As for everyone their expected quality standards and bug thresholds has been raised and lowered significantly!!
Back then in 2003 they could still get away with it, because there wasn't any real and serious competition on the MMO market anyway. (altho they still lost a great chunck of players because of all the bugs... hence the reason they got desperate and started working on the NGE)
Or did you forget that for example, that the Smugler class was a completely broken and useless class in pre-NGE? Wich they never bothered to fix back then?
Have you forgotten the rampant threads about that?
Or how about all the performance and rubber banding issues people were having? (server side issues by the way).
No, all your objections are easily overcome. Firslty, I am not saying 'Bring back Pre-NGE game to replace the current NGE game'. No, if poeople like the NGE game, then let them continue playing it. I am just recommending the opening of one or two Pre-NGE servers to run alongside the existing game. And before you say, how can there possibly be two versions of the game, then go and look at DAoC which runs two versions together perfectly happily - I believe, in fact, the classic DAoC is actually more popular than the modern version. Secondly, true it would be exceptionally expensive to get Koster and Walton back to work on the game, even if they were needed. But I'm suggesting they wouldn't be needed. The pre-NGE game worked perfectly well right up to and after the launch of the third expansion. All SOE needs to do is run that code. It exists. It works. It's already been played. Thirdly, I am suggesting that the code is stable enough to run pretty much as it is, unsupported and unbugged. Would people be prepared to play such a game? Hmmm, all I can say is that enjoyed the pre-NGE sandbox game so much that I personally would do so. And if, just to keep it running, the game did need support, then as Smedley as always said he would do - quite presciently as it turns out - then all he needs to do is hire some of the boys working on the EMU. They know the code. They understand the dynamics. They love the game. AND THEY'RE CURRENTLY DOING IT FOR FREE!
WHAHAHA! Perfect? Perfect my rear butt!
Seriously, how much I did love the pre-NGE game... FACT is that it was plagued by a rampant amount of bugs.
Such an ammount of bugs, NO ONE would be willing to be put up with TODAY! As for everyone their expected quality standards and bug thresholds has been raised and lowered significantly!!
Back then in 2003 they could still get away with it, because there wasn't any real and serious competition on the MMO market anyway. (altho they still lost a great chunck of players because of all the bugs... hence the reason they got desperate and started working on the NGE)
Or did you forget that for example, that the Smugler class was a completely broken and useless class in pre-NGE? Wich they never bothered to fix back then?
Have you forgotten the rampant threads about that?
Or how about all the performance and rubber banding issues people were having? (server side issues by the way).
Cheers
Where did I say 'perfect'?
I only said that two versions of the game can run side by side 'perfectly happily'. Which, as DAoC showed, they can.
As for the amount of bugs existing in the old game. True, there were many. But they did not mean the game was unplayable by any means. In fact, a quarter of a million people were still playing the buggy game when SOE introduced the NGE.
Would people still play such a buggy game now? Hmmm, I think many might. I know I would. The fact that this one forum in thos one MMO discussion site is still one of the most avtive forums on the board suggests that a lot of people might also do so.
Sure there were rubber-band issues - sometimes (I played the game up until the end and I personally didn't find that a game-breaking issue at all). And yes, Smugglers were hampered by a lack of things to smuggle. But tjhey could make money by splicin things and by making spices and, with a little bit of Pistoleer is their build, they could be quite deadly with a gun. Teras Kasi artists never complained about the lack of Teras Kasi temples.
I am not suggesting that Smedley should bring back the game with a great fanfare and proclaim it as the next generation game of the future.
Just that he run one or two servers as a niche game for a niche audience - probably around >10,000 players - and generate a nice little revenue stream for the company without too much trouble.
Hell, Planetside has less players than that and he keeps those servers ope.
Where did I say 'perfect'? I only said that two versions of the game can run side by side 'perfectly happily'. Which, as DAoC showed, they can. As for the amount of bugs existing in the old game. True, there were many. But they did not mean the game was unplayable by any means. In fact, a quarter of a million people were still playing the buggy game when SOE introduced the NGE. Would people still play such a buggy game now? Hmmm, I think many might. I know I would. The fact that this one forum in thos one MMO discussion site is still one of the most avtive forums on the board suggests that a lot of people might also do so. Sure there were rubber-band issues - sometimes (I played the game up until the end and I personally didn't find that a game-breaking issue at all). And yes, Smugglers were hampered by a lack of things to smuggle. But tjhey could make money by splicin things and by making spices and, with a little bit of Pistoleer is their build, they could be quite deadly with a gun. Teras Kasi artists never complained about the lack of Teras Kasi temples. I am not suggesting that Smedley should bring back the game with a great fanfare and proclaim it as the next generation game of the future. Just that he run one or two servers as a niche game for a niche audience - probably around >10,000 players - and generate a nice little revenue stream for the company without too much trouble. Hell, Planetside has less players than that and he keeps those servers ope.
Another problem you have to take in mind is...
That the game was a horrible monotone grindfest. Don't forget that too!
Seeing the increase of discussions, whining threads and whatnot about how people hate Asian grinders.
Well... honestly, SWG wasn't any different when it comes to grinding a thousand mobs to max out some tree.
Not to mention that most of the time you were camping mob spawns with a lot of other players.
The game was really oldschool in that sense.
How many would be willing to be put up with that today you think?
As seriously, I think a lot of the people crying here for Pre-NGE servers have totally forgotten about that.
I myself remember it all too well, in how extensive and sometimes even frustrating the mob camping and long grinding could become. There were days that I just logged off out of frustration, because of all the camping going on.
Another problem you have to take in mind is... That the game was a horrible monotone grindfest. Don't forget that too! Seeing the increase of discussions, whining threads and whatnot about how people hate Asian grinders. Well... honestly, SWG wasn't any different when it comes to grinding a thousand mobs to max out some tree. Not to mention that most of the time you were camping mob spawns with a lot of other players. The game was really oldschool in that sense. How many would be willing to be put up with that today you think? As seriously, I think a lot of the people crying here for Pre-NGE servers have totally forgotten about that. Cheers
Yes, but people still play those Asian grinders in their millions, eh?
What you'e got to understand, what you've got to accept, is that just because you hate a game doesn't mean that everyone else hated it. Try not to be so solipsistic.
Just visit other game sites and forums and, without posting anything else, post 'How many of you would pay $15 a month to play the old pre-NGE SWG?' and within 24 hours you will always find between eight to ten posters who say they would. Not a scientific method of market testing by any means but, still, I believe, a useful indicator that the game you can't stand is still loved and remembered by other people. I have actually done this so I am speaking from my own experience.
Another problem you have to take in mind is... That the game was a horrible monotone grindfest. Don't forget that too! Seeing the increase of discussions, whining threads and whatnot about how people hate Asian grinders. Well... honestly, SWG wasn't any different when it comes to grinding a thousand mobs to max out some tree. Not to mention that most of the time you were camping mob spawns with a lot of other players. The game was really oldschool in that sense. How many would be willing to be put up with that today you think? As seriously, I think a lot of the people crying here for Pre-NGE servers have totally forgotten about that. Cheers
Yes, but people still play those Asian grinders in their millions, eh?
What you'e got to understand, what you've got to accept, is that just because you hate a game doesn't mean that everyone else hated it. Try not to be so solipsistic.
Just visit other game sites and forums and, without posting anything else, post 'How many of you would pay $15 a month to play the old pre-NGE SWG?' and within 24 hours you will always find between eight to ten posters who say they would. Not a scientific method of market testing by any means but, still, I believe, a useful indicator that the game you can't stand is still loved and remembered by other people. I have actually done this so I am speaking from my own experience.
Cheers.
I didn't hate the game at all. In fact, I loved the game for it's fantastic community back then.. with all it's social RP elements, the city building, houses decorating, etc, etc.
I too hated SOE for what they did to my beloved game back then with the coming of the NGE! Don't forget that!
You are right! There are still plenty of people playing Asian grinders today... Yes Asian people by the millions!
SWG is a western oriented and marketed game.
Market Testing has proven that Grind fest MMO's are hated by most western players. Hence the reason the impopularity of Asian MMO's in the west!
Why do you think that NcSoft has put so much emphasis on quests with their new game Aion? Pure and solely for the reason so they could market it to the West as well.
--------------
I am not trying to say that NO ONE would want to play on Pre-NGE servers. Hence, I would be willing to give it a go again.
But I am honest in saying, that I have high doubts if I would still love it as I did back then? Spening hours and hours camping the same mobs and mindleslly grinding them over and over and over for combat XP.
Not to mention trying to master crafting skills.
I don't know. That's me honestly admitting that. And I am pretty sure a lot of you people have forgotten about that and how you would react to this game now almost 6 years later.
I didn't hate the game at all. In fact, I loved the game for it's fantastic community back then.. with all it's social RP elements, the city building, houses decorating, etc, etc. I too hated SOE for what they did to my beloved game back then with the coming of the NGE! Don't forget that! You are right! There are still plenty of people playing Asian grinders today... Yes Asian people by the millions! SWG is a western oriented and marketed game. Market Testing has proven that Grind fest MMO's are hated by most western players. Hence the reason the impopularity of Asian MMO's in the west! Why do you think that NcSoft has put so much emphasis on quests with their new game Aion? Pure and solely for the reason so they could market it to the West as well. -------------- I am not trying to say that NO ONE would want to play on Pre-NGE servers. Hence, I would be willing to give it a go again. But I am honest in saying, that I have high doubts if I would still love it as I did back then? Spening hours and hours camping the same mobs and mindleslly grinding them over and over and over for combat XP. Not to mention trying to master crafting skills. I don't know. That's me honestly admitting that. And I am pretty sure a lot of you people have forgotten about that and how you would react to this game now almost 6 years later. Cheers
Well, there's only one way for Smedley to be sure, isn't there?
By opening up one or two pre-NGE servers.
And, as I've speculated, a customer base of only 5000-10,000 would provide a regular profit.
I didn't hate the game at all. In fact, I loved the game for it's fantastic community back then.. with all it's social RP elements, the city building, houses decorating, etc, etc. I too hated SOE for what they did to my beloved game back then with the coming of the NGE! Don't forget that! You are right! There are still plenty of people playing Asian grinders today... Yes Asian people by the millions! SWG is a western oriented and marketed game. Market Testing has proven that Grind fest MMO's are hated by most western players. Hence the reason the impopularity of Asian MMO's in the west! Why do you think that NcSoft has put so much emphasis on quests with their new game Aion? Pure and solely for the reason so they could market it to the West as well. -------------- I am not trying to say that NO ONE would want to play on Pre-NGE servers. Hence, I would be willing to give it a go again. But I am honest in saying, that I have high doubts if I would still love it as I did back then? Spening hours and hours camping the same mobs and mindleslly grinding them over and over and over for combat XP. Not to mention trying to master crafting skills. I don't know. That's me honestly admitting that. And I am pretty sure a lot of you people have forgotten about that and how you would react to this game now almost 6 years later. Cheers
Well, there's only one way for Smedley to be sure, isn't there?
By opening up one or two pre-NGE servers.
And, as I've speculated, a customer base of only 5000-10,000 would provide a regular profit.
Sure, with no bug fixes, no content updates. Nothing nada.
How long would you think you or anyone would stick around?
I didn't hate the game at all. In fact, I loved the game for it's fantastic community back then.. with all it's social RP elements, the city building, houses decorating, etc, etc. I too hated SOE for what they did to my beloved game back then with the coming of the NGE! Don't forget that! You are right! There are still plenty of people playing Asian grinders today... Yes Asian people by the millions! SWG is a western oriented and marketed game. Market Testing has proven that Grind fest MMO's are hated by most western players. Hence the reason the impopularity of Asian MMO's in the west! Why do you think that NcSoft has put so much emphasis on quests with their new game Aion? Pure and solely for the reason so they could market it to the West as well. -------------- I am not trying to say that NO ONE would want to play on Pre-NGE servers. Hence, I would be willing to give it a go again. But I am honest in saying, that I have high doubts if I would still love it as I did back then? Spening hours and hours camping the same mobs and mindleslly grinding them over and over and over for combat XP. Not to mention trying to master crafting skills. I don't know. That's me honestly admitting that. And I am pretty sure a lot of you people have forgotten about that and how you would react to this game now almost 6 years later. Cheers
Well, there's only one way for Smedley to be sure, isn't there?
By opening up one or two pre-NGE servers.
And, as I've speculated, a customer base of only 5000-10,000 would provide a regular profit.
You do realize that the profit generated by 5-10K subs is considered pocket change in the world of big business, my firm has executives who get larger bonuses than what that would make.
Now, if they thought they could get 250K back, sure they'd give it a go, but they know better. First, once the pre-cu/nge code was unveiled (and which would you chose btw?) people would find out there was lots of hateful things about it that they've forgotten in the past four years.
Next, as found in DAOC, the Origins servers started out great, they had to open 3 of them, and then.... very quickly, people realized that once the nostalgia ran off they grew disinterested and within 2 years of opening, the orgins servers were ghost towns....yet Mythic did nothing wrong, the player base had just wearied of the game.
As others have mentioned, the OPS sugggestion is a no win scenario for SOE and they are better off to let the legacy of SWG go out quietly into the night.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Sure, with no bug fixes, no content updates. Nothing nada. How long would you think you or anyone would stick around?
I don't know. Let's ask the 50,000 people who've been wading through Vanguard for the last two years.
LOL
There is no way vanguard has anywhere close to that amount of players. It was rumored to have around 40k when soe bought it and people are guestimating it to be around 5-10k now. That is about a 75-85% drop in 2 years for a game that at least has a development team.
There is no reason for soe to put up classic star wars servers. No need to poke the dead body with a stick. The time has passed and I highly doubt they are interested in making another PR gamble to make an extra 1-2 million dollars a year.
All of this is based on the simple assumption that soe could even put those servers up again. I'm not talking about permission from lucas arts or licensing issues. I am talking about people with the ability to do the actual work. I doubt they could even get the servers to boot up with the code properly.
There is no way vanguard has anywhere close to that amount of players. It was rumored to have around 40k when soe bought it and people are guestimating it to be around 5-10k now. That is about a 75-85% drop in 2 years for a game that at least has a development team. There is no reason for soe to put up classic star wars servers. No need to poke the dead body with a stick. The time has passed and I highly doubt they are interested in making another PR gamble to make an extra 1-2 million dollars a year. All of this is based on the simple assumption that soe could even put those servers up again. I'm not talking about permission from lucas arts or licensing issues. I am talking about people with the ability to do the actual work. I doubt they could even get the servers to boot up with the code properly.
Everything you've said has been covered in other posts.
1/. If VG is still up and running, it's because it makes money. If so, why not a few pre-NGE servers?
2/. There's plenty of reason for putting up 'classic' star wars - a million dollars in profit even if ONLY 5000 play
There is no way vanguard has anywhere close to that amount of players. It was rumored to have around 40k when soe bought it and people are guestimating it to be around 5-10k now. That is about a 75-85% drop in 2 years for a game that at least has a development team. There is no reason for soe to put up classic star wars servers. No need to poke the dead body with a stick. The time has passed and I highly doubt they are interested in making another PR gamble to make an extra 1-2 million dollars a year. All of this is based on the simple assumption that soe could even put those servers up again. I'm not talking about permission from lucas arts or licensing issues. I am talking about people with the ability to do the actual work. I doubt they could even get the servers to boot up with the code properly.
Everything you've said has been covered in other posts.
1/. If VG is still up and running, it's because it makes money. If so, why not a few pre-NGE servers?
2/. There's plenty of reason for putting up 'classic' star wars - a million dollars in profit even if ONLY 5000 play
<Mod Edit>
Vanguard doesn't require any extra resources to operate. It is already running. It does not need licensing approval. It does not need to split profits with a partner. It does not need a brand new dev team to initiate, research and complete the project. It isn't like soe has tons of extra talent to throw at screwball projects like this. It isn't like sony as a whole is swimming in money to speculate on something like this. It isn't like smed can do whatever he wants anymore. He has a boss now.
1,000,000 is REVENUE. Before ongoing expenses and lucas arts cut. There is a lot of unknown in there.
If you were in soes shoes right now where would you put your developers to work? On yet another attempt to make SWG profitable or on a project that might just do something positive.
SWG is dead as a project. There is no incentive for soe to waste resources reviving a project that has undergone countless revamps in the hopes that it might make a buck they would have to split with someone. Why would soe want to reopen the classic/nge pandoras box to media and player scrutany yet again. There is not enough gains in it for them to do that.
They lost everything when they chose to eliminate their current customers in favor of a mythical customer. Soe should de everything in their power to distance themselves from that image and dredging up swg classic servers on the off chance that anything positive comes out of it isn't the right direction to go.
Not to mention soe as a company is obsessed with micro transactions and still aim for mmos with millions of players. Classic servers, no matter how cool it would be, are just so far off this companies radar it isn't even funny. Even if it would make their customers happy, when has this company ever used that criteria to make their decisions?
You have the code! You have the servers! You have the baying crowd of madmen just ready and waiting to sign up for double-expense monthly charges, minimum duration three months! What better way to smother TOR while it is still a mewling infant in the cradle! Imagine! The same people who called you a bald-headed, doughy madman yesterday would tomorrow hail you as a god whose very name would be a killing word amongst your rivals at Bioware and Blizzard! It would be a bold, audacious, preposterous move! And it would cost you nothing! It's totally Smedley! Go for it, you bald-headed, doughy madman! Who knows, it mighy even be your ticket to, dare I say it?, the Presidentship-for-Life of Sony Worldwide!
Why should smed do anything for those that wished he and his family would die in a fire? Anyway Freerealms is pulling in well over 2.4 mil a month now..
He has his Cash cow, and if the Rumors are true and EQ 3 is in fact based on the FreeRelams model he will probably be given credit for single handedly putting SOE back on top. That should be enough to put some of the more lunitic frindge Vets over the edge.
Why should smed do anything for those that wished he and his family would die in a fire? Anyway Freerealms is pulling in well over 2.4 mil a month now.. http://www.massively.com/2009/06/13/free-realms-guesstimating-monthly-revenue-using-the-89-10-1-rul/1#c19400407 He has his Cash cow, and if the Rumors are true and EQ 3 is in fact based on the FreeRelams model he will probably be given credit for single handedly putting SOE back on top. That should be enough to put some of the more lunitic frindge Vets over the edge. /lol
And you guys complain when we pull numbers out of our arses. The Massively article is way off because the FTP game geared towards children genre is a different beast altogether. That fomula appllies to adult hobbies not ftp games like Free Realm, Roblox, Pirates of the Car, and the myraid of others. Anyone who has any children at this point can tell you that they sign up and play EVERYTHING but you as the parent rarely if ever pay for any of it because it's all fleeting. 3 million children give or take do not a profit machine make.
Comments
It would take a lot of development and IT work hours to get pre-cu realms up and running, simple as that. It is counterproductive, they will not do it.
Why says "It would take a lot of development and IT work hours to get pre-cu realms up and running"?
Are you a designer? Are you a programmer? Do you work in a server room?
Both Jeff Freeman, the former Lead Producer, and Dan Rubenfield, former SWG Senior Designer, said that the pre-NGE code still exists. That means Smedley needs only to order that code to be fed into a server box and that box turned on. And then, bingo!, pre-NGE SWG would return and Smedley would be hailed as the most visionary genius in the online gaming industry since Marie Curie!
It would take a lot of development and IT work hours to get pre-cu realms up and running, simple as that. It is counterproductive, they will not do it.
Why says "It would take a lot of development and IT work hours to get pre-cu realms up and running"?
Are you a designer? Are you a programmer? Do you work in a server room?
Both Jeff Freeman, the former Lead Producer, and Dan Rubenfield, former SWG Senior Designer, said that the pre-NGE code still exists. That means Smedley needs only to order that code to be fed into a server box and that box turned on. And then, bingo!, pre-NGE SWG would return and Smedley would be hailed as the most visionary genius in the online gaming industry since Marie Curie!
The problem is that most of the devs from that time are no longer with SOE.
They don't have the expertise anymore to support and maintain pre-NGE servers.
If something is crazy expensive, then that is to re-educate developers into old code and them being able to do something with it. Just the time it takes to get them up to speed and ready to do something with it, would take us beyond the release date of SW:TOR!
Then you have the problem that they have to maintain and update two sets of code.
Because if you believe it or not, there are people that enjoy the current NGE game.
And telling them to go screw themselves and take a hike in favor of pre-NGE servers would make you NO different than John Smedly himself.
Cheers
The numbers should be attractive to Smedley if he charged $15 a month for a minimum three month contract plus a $20 fee for 'installation software' (ie. the price you had to pay to redownload the old game from his site)
I would venture that ten thousand people would sign up to those terms. Is that too many ? Too few?
So - that (10,000 x 15 x 3) + (10,000 x 20)
= $650,000
Six hundred and fifty thousand smackeroos out of a code he already has and launched from a server base that's already in place to a consumer segment that he knows wants to buy it!
Even if you take off $150,000 for 'costs', that's half a million bucks free money!
And even if only five thousand people kept on playing in three- month increments that's still an income of $225,000 every quarter indefinitely!
No, all your objections are easily overcome.
Firslty, I am not saying 'Bring back Pre-NGE game to replace the current NGE game'. No, if poeople like the NGE game, then let them continue playing it. I am just recommending the opening of one or two Pre-NGE servers to run alongside the existing game. And before you say, how can there possibly be two versions of the game, then go and look at DAoC which runs two versions together perfectly happily - I believe, in fact, the classic DAoC is actually more popular than the modern version.
Secondly, true it would be exceptionally expensive to get Koster and Walton back to work on the game, even if they were needed. But I'm suggesting they wouldn't be needed. The pre-NGE game worked perfectly well right up to and after the launch of the third expansion. All SOE needs to do is run that code. It exists. It works. It's already been played.
Thirdly, I am suggesting that the code is stable enough to run pretty much as it is, unsupported and unbugged. Would people be prepared to play such a game? Hmmm, all I can say is that enjoyed the pre-NGE sandbox game so much that I personally would do so. And if, just to keep it running, the game did need support, then as Smedley as always said he would do - quite presciently as it turns out - then all he needs to do is hire some of the boys working on the EMU. They know the code. They understand the dynamics. They love the game. AND THEY'RE CURRENTLY DOING IT FOR FREE!
You must be an important executive in SOE who knows these things for sure.
It would take a lot of development and IT work hours to get pre-cu realms up and running, simple as that. It is counterproductive, they will not do it.
Why says "It would take a lot of development and IT work hours to get pre-cu realms up and running"?
Are you a designer? Are you a programmer? Do you work in a server room?
Both Jeff Freeman, the former Lead Producer, and Dan Rubenfield, former SWG Senior Designer, said that the pre-NGE code still exists. That means Smedley needs only to order that code to be fed into a server box and that box turned on. And then, bingo!, pre-NGE SWG would return and Smedley would be hailed as the most visionary genius in the online gaming industry since Marie Curie!
I am programmer, and I've done my fair share of work in server rooms. Yes, any software house will most likely have all of their previous code builds stored somewhere. What you said about just turning 'the old code on' is wrong, wrong wrong.
Bringing an old build live is not as simple as 'turning it on'. I'm sure the quality standards are not the same, and also due to infrastructure changes, most likely extensive code changes will be required.
'...Likely...'. ''...Not [ ] sure...'. '...Most likely...'.
Exactly!.
Only Smedley can be sure.
If he runs the figures and finds they make sense, then he'll do it.
So stop trying to talk him out of even contemplating this wonderful project, you Finnish buzzkill.
Just kidding, I love you.
Do not pay any attention to the OP, he is just trolling as usual.
This.
No, all your objections are easily overcome.
Firslty, I am not saying 'Bring back Pre-NGE game to replace the current NGE game'. No, if poeople like the NGE game, then let them continue playing it. I am just recommending the opening of one or two Pre-NGE servers to run alongside the existing game. And before you say, how can there possibly be two versions of the game, then go and look at DAoC which runs two versions together perfectly happily - I believe, in fact, the classic DAoC is actually more popular than the modern version.
Secondly, true it would be exceptionally expensive to get Koster and Walton back to work on the game, even if they were needed. But I'm suggesting they wouldn't be needed. The pre-NGE game worked perfectly well right up to and after the launch of the third expansion. All SOE needs to do is run that code. It exists. It works. It's already been played.
Thirdly, I am suggesting that the code is stable enough to run pretty much as it is, unsupported and unbugged. Would people be prepared to play such a game? Hmmm, all I can say is that enjoyed the pre-NGE sandbox game so much that I personally would do so. And if, just to keep it running, the game did need support, then as Smedley as always said he would do - quite presciently as it turns out - then all he needs to do is hire some of the boys working on the EMU. They know the code. They understand the dynamics. They love the game. AND THEY'RE CURRENTLY DOING IT FOR FREE!
WHAHAHA! Perfect? Perfect my rear butt!
Seriously, how much I did love the pre-NGE game... FACT is that it was plagued by a rampant amount of bugs.
Such an ammount of bugs, NO ONE would be willing to be put up with TODAY! As for everyone their expected quality standards and bug thresholds has been raised and lowered significantly!!
Back then in 2003 they could still get away with it, because there wasn't any real and serious competition on the MMO market anyway. (altho they still lost a great chunck of players because of all the bugs... hence the reason they got desperate and started working on the NGE)
Or did you forget that for example, that the Smugler class was a completely broken and useless class in pre-NGE? Wich they never bothered to fix back then?
Have you forgotten the rampant threads about that?
Or how about all the performance and rubber banding issues people were having? (server side issues by the way).
Cheers
Well, perhaps you're right.
Personally, I try not to do 'obvious'. That's for lesser minds.
And let's hope Smedley doesn't do so either ,eh?
WHAHAHA! Perfect? Perfect my rear butt!
Seriously, how much I did love the pre-NGE game... FACT is that it was plagued by a rampant amount of bugs.
Such an ammount of bugs, NO ONE would be willing to be put up with TODAY! As for everyone their expected quality standards and bug thresholds has been raised and lowered significantly!!
Back then in 2003 they could still get away with it, because there wasn't any real and serious competition on the MMO market anyway. (altho they still lost a great chunck of players because of all the bugs... hence the reason they got desperate and started working on the NGE)
Or did you forget that for example, that the Smugler class was a completely broken and useless class in pre-NGE? Wich they never bothered to fix back then?
Have you forgotten the rampant threads about that?
Or how about all the performance and rubber banding issues people were having? (server side issues by the way).
Cheers
Where did I say 'perfect'?
I only said that two versions of the game can run side by side 'perfectly happily'. Which, as DAoC showed, they can.
As for the amount of bugs existing in the old game. True, there were many. But they did not mean the game was unplayable by any means. In fact, a quarter of a million people were still playing the buggy game when SOE introduced the NGE.
Would people still play such a buggy game now? Hmmm, I think many might. I know I would. The fact that this one forum in thos one MMO discussion site is still one of the most avtive forums on the board suggests that a lot of people might also do so.
Sure there were rubber-band issues - sometimes (I played the game up until the end and I personally didn't find that a game-breaking issue at all). And yes, Smugglers were hampered by a lack of things to smuggle. But tjhey could make money by splicin things and by making spices and, with a little bit of Pistoleer is their build, they could be quite deadly with a gun. Teras Kasi artists never complained about the lack of Teras Kasi temples.
I am not suggesting that Smedley should bring back the game with a great fanfare and proclaim it as the next generation game of the future.
Just that he run one or two servers as a niche game for a niche audience - probably around >10,000 players - and generate a nice little revenue stream for the company without too much trouble.
Hell, Planetside has less players than that and he keeps those servers ope.
Another problem you have to take in mind is...
That the game was a horrible monotone grindfest. Don't forget that too!
Seeing the increase of discussions, whining threads and whatnot about how people hate Asian grinders.
Well... honestly, SWG wasn't any different when it comes to grinding a thousand mobs to max out some tree.
Not to mention that most of the time you were camping mob spawns with a lot of other players.
The game was really oldschool in that sense.
How many would be willing to be put up with that today you think?
As seriously, I think a lot of the people crying here for Pre-NGE servers have totally forgotten about that.
I myself remember it all too well, in how extensive and sometimes even frustrating the mob camping and long grinding could become. There were days that I just logged off out of frustration, because of all the camping going on.
Cheers
Yes, but people still play those Asian grinders in their millions, eh?
What you'e got to understand, what you've got to accept, is that just because you hate a game doesn't mean that everyone else hated it. Try not to be so solipsistic.
Just visit other game sites and forums and, without posting anything else, post 'How many of you would pay $15 a month to play the old pre-NGE SWG?' and within 24 hours you will always find between eight to ten posters who say they would. Not a scientific method of market testing by any means but, still, I believe, a useful indicator that the game you can't stand is still loved and remembered by other people. I have actually done this so I am speaking from my own experience.
Cheers.
Yes, but people still play those Asian grinders in their millions, eh?
What you'e got to understand, what you've got to accept, is that just because you hate a game doesn't mean that everyone else hated it. Try not to be so solipsistic.
Just visit other game sites and forums and, without posting anything else, post 'How many of you would pay $15 a month to play the old pre-NGE SWG?' and within 24 hours you will always find between eight to ten posters who say they would. Not a scientific method of market testing by any means but, still, I believe, a useful indicator that the game you can't stand is still loved and remembered by other people. I have actually done this so I am speaking from my own experience.
Cheers.
I didn't hate the game at all. In fact, I loved the game for it's fantastic community back then.. with all it's social RP elements, the city building, houses decorating, etc, etc.
I too hated SOE for what they did to my beloved game back then with the coming of the NGE! Don't forget that!
You are right! There are still plenty of people playing Asian grinders today... Yes Asian people by the millions!
SWG is a western oriented and marketed game.
Market Testing has proven that Grind fest MMO's are hated by most western players. Hence the reason the impopularity of Asian MMO's in the west!
Why do you think that NcSoft has put so much emphasis on quests with their new game Aion? Pure and solely for the reason so they could market it to the West as well.
--------------
I am not trying to say that NO ONE would want to play on Pre-NGE servers. Hence, I would be willing to give it a go again.
But I am honest in saying, that I have high doubts if I would still love it as I did back then? Spening hours and hours camping the same mobs and mindleslly grinding them over and over and over for combat XP.
Not to mention trying to master crafting skills.
I don't know. That's me honestly admitting that. And I am pretty sure a lot of you people have forgotten about that and how you would react to this game now almost 6 years later.
Cheers
Well, there's only one way for Smedley to be sure, isn't there?
By opening up one or two pre-NGE servers.
And, as I've speculated, a customer base of only 5000-10,000 would provide a regular profit.
Well, there's only one way for Smedley to be sure, isn't there?
By opening up one or two pre-NGE servers.
And, as I've speculated, a customer base of only 5000-10,000 would provide a regular profit.
Sure, with no bug fixes, no content updates. Nothing nada.
How long would you think you or anyone would stick around?
I don't know. Let's ask the 50,000 people who've been wading through Vanguard for the last two years.
LOL
Well, there's only one way for Smedley to be sure, isn't there?
By opening up one or two pre-NGE servers.
And, as I've speculated, a customer base of only 5000-10,000 would provide a regular profit.
You do realize that the profit generated by 5-10K subs is considered pocket change in the world of big business, my firm has executives who get larger bonuses than what that would make.
Now, if they thought they could get 250K back, sure they'd give it a go, but they know better. First, once the pre-cu/nge code was unveiled (and which would you chose btw?) people would find out there was lots of hateful things about it that they've forgotten in the past four years.
Next, as found in DAOC, the Origins servers started out great, they had to open 3 of them, and then.... very quickly, people realized that once the nostalgia ran off they grew disinterested and within 2 years of opening, the orgins servers were ghost towns....yet Mythic did nothing wrong, the player base had just wearied of the game.
As others have mentioned, the OPS sugggestion is a no win scenario for SOE and they are better off to let the legacy of SWG go out quietly into the night.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
lol
I don't know. Let's ask the 50,000 people who've been wading through Vanguard for the last two years.
LOL
There is no way vanguard has anywhere close to that amount of players. It was rumored to have around 40k when soe bought it and people are guestimating it to be around 5-10k now. That is about a 75-85% drop in 2 years for a game that at least has a development team.
There is no reason for soe to put up classic star wars servers. No need to poke the dead body with a stick. The time has passed and I highly doubt they are interested in making another PR gamble to make an extra 1-2 million dollars a year.
All of this is based on the simple assumption that soe could even put those servers up again. I'm not talking about permission from lucas arts or licensing issues. I am talking about people with the ability to do the actual work. I doubt they could even get the servers to boot up with the code properly.
Everything you've said has been covered in other posts.
1/. If VG is still up and running, it's because it makes money. If so, why not a few pre-NGE servers?
2/. There's plenty of reason for putting up 'classic' star wars - a million dollars in profit even if ONLY 5000 play
<Mod Edit>
Everything you've said has been covered in other posts.
1/. If VG is still up and running, it's because it makes money. If so, why not a few pre-NGE servers?
2/. There's plenty of reason for putting up 'classic' star wars - a million dollars in profit even if ONLY 5000 play
<Mod Edit>
Vanguard doesn't require any extra resources to operate. It is already running. It does not need licensing approval. It does not need to split profits with a partner. It does not need a brand new dev team to initiate, research and complete the project. It isn't like soe has tons of extra talent to throw at screwball projects like this. It isn't like sony as a whole is swimming in money to speculate on something like this. It isn't like smed can do whatever he wants anymore. He has a boss now.
1,000,000 is REVENUE. Before ongoing expenses and lucas arts cut. There is a lot of unknown in there.
If you were in soes shoes right now where would you put your developers to work? On yet another attempt to make SWG profitable or on a project that might just do something positive.
SWG is dead as a project. There is no incentive for soe to waste resources reviving a project that has undergone countless revamps in the hopes that it might make a buck they would have to split with someone. Why would soe want to reopen the classic/nge pandoras box to media and player scrutany yet again. There is not enough gains in it for them to do that.
They lost everything when they chose to eliminate their current customers in favor of a mythical customer. Soe should de everything in their power to distance themselves from that image and dredging up swg classic servers on the off chance that anything positive comes out of it isn't the right direction to go.
Not to mention soe as a company is obsessed with micro transactions and still aim for mmos with millions of players. Classic servers, no matter how cool it would be, are just so far off this companies radar it isn't even funny. Even if it would make their customers happy, when has this company ever used that criteria to make their decisions?
Why should smed do anything for those that wished he and his family would die in a fire? Anyway Freerealms is pulling in well over 2.4 mil a month now..
http://www.massively.com/2009/06/13/free-realms-guesstimating-monthly-revenue-using-the-89-10-1-rul/1#c19400407
He has his Cash cow, and if the Rumors are true and EQ 3 is in fact based on the FreeRelams model he will probably be given credit for single handedly putting SOE back on top. That should be enough to put some of the more lunitic frindge Vets over the edge.
/lol
And you guys complain when we pull numbers out of our arses. The Massively article is way off because the FTP game geared towards children genre is a different beast altogether. That fomula appllies to adult hobbies not ftp games like Free Realm, Roblox, Pirates of the Car, and the myraid of others. Anyone who has any children at this point can tell you that they sign up and play EVERYTHING but you as the parent rarely if ever pay for any of it because it's all fleeting. 3 million children give or take do not a profit machine make.
And it's Fringe.