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Opinions on resale
Jimmy_Scythe
Member CommonPosts: 3,586
So the piracy thread was basically a broken record of the same arguements that we've been hearing for the better part of thirty years now and therefore I think it's time to take a swipe at an issue that media producers find just as threatening: resale!
Basically it goes like this: Media providers believe that they should have a cut off of every sale of everything they make. If you buy a movie, record, book, game, etc. then you should have to pay the copyright holder if and when you decide to resell that book. This would be the same as a person selling their house and then getting a cut of the price every time the house switched owners. However, according to leading video game devlopers "used games are not in the best interest of the consumer."
rrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhttttttttttttttt...........................
They were still bitching about the secondary market at E3 this year!
So what do all of you think?
Comments
Aww, they think it's unfair that the vast majority of people would rather not spend 50-60 dollars every time they want to play a game. Aww, how sad.
Some people are stating that they are being ignorant on how the market works and fail to realize how used-products markets stimulate the economy and value of the product. As stated in the comments section of one of the links.
Though, it's more like, they're more than aware of how the market works, but they would rather get more money.
I suppose we should move to eliminate secondary auto-sales as well, perhaps no more private sales of anything, like homes and the incredibly unfair yard-sale industry.
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Edit:
They bring popular resellers into the light like GameStop/EB Games etc.
Anyone who still sells their games to these people are being willfully ignorant. They give you pennies and turn around and sell the used game for nearly the same price as a new one. This is why I no longer buy from these stores.. I'd much rather stick with Amazon (because they're fast and honest) and EBay should I choose to buy a used game. No middle-man super-company is going to make money off of my items. I've sold countless games on EBay, it's just the fairest place to do so. The fees to list are minute..
Well, I have two opinions in favor of either side.
In favor of used games sales: I was in highschool when PSX and N64 were the current generation; and I definitely felt better about buying games knowing I could trade them in when I was short on cash to get a new game. So I believe companies like GameStop are right in that the existence of a used game market can urge on the purchase of a sale.
In favor of industry resentment: GameStop in particular has a shady culture of devaluing new games and overly encouraging used games; be it their discount card for trade-ins and used games, their policies of gutting new game cases and selling them new, allowing employees to check out new games and bring them back to resell as new, etc.
I think the best fix for some of GameStop's monopoly of shadiness is competition; awareness of Amazon's used game deal online, and more brick and mortar competition from retailers like Best Buy or whomever that offer new games under better conditions and quality.
Ultimately though; the argument doesn't much matter. Battling piracy and used games might be motivators in digital distribution, but mostly its a convenient for consumers and publishers alike that's inevitable regardless of piracy or used games.
So in the short-run, I look forward to more competition for GameStop for people that benefit from trade-ins, in the long run I also look forward to getting all of my new games strictly from digital distribution for the pure convenience of it.
I've shopped regularly at Half Price Books since the mid 70's. They also sell/resell software also although most of that is new.
The only thing that sucks about used game sales is that Gamestop has the audacity to charge $5 less than new for a used game after the buy it for $15. Seriously. WTF is that about? Most games aren't worth $60 much less $55 for a used version of it. Once the box is opened it should be 1/2.
I hate scumbags who pirate games, but its sad theres no used market for PC games since DRM. The pirates screwed it all up for the rest of us. If you're going to play the game buy it. It takes a really loser to pirate something brand new. If its a few years old and its hard to find a hard copy, thats a different story. Although, Steam has made it a bit easier, even if their prices seem whacked at times.
Books cost nearly as much as games these days. Once a new-release game comes out of the limelight it will settle at about the same price as a hardcover book, usually at $17-$20. That gets ridiculous after a while, for books. Good collection hobby, but still.
If I'm going to pay $30 simoleans for a new-release book, I'd expect that puppy to be leather-bound with perfect binding, excellent print and an antiqued design. Like a professional tome of knowledge that closes with a leather strap. Never the case though.. You always get the shitty plastic jacket that crinkles and rips after 2 weeks, usually having a huge picture of the author sitting in a chair with their arms folded.
Convenience sells. Even for books digital distribution seems to be the future; and in the form of the DRM Kindle format rather than pdfs, lits or whatever else.
Reselling is fine in my book. You pay for something you should be able to sell it.
On the other hand, if you rip an illegal copy THEN sell it you are just as sleazy as any other pirate.
deviliscious: (PS. I have been told that when I use scientific language, it does not make me sound more intelligent, it only makes me sound like a jackass. It makes me appear that I am not knowledgable enough in the subject I am discussing to be able to translate it for people outside the field to understand. Some advice you might consider as well)
The poll is encouraging because I thought I was dealing with a generation who is naive enough to believe that the more they give-up (personal information, private pictures, money, rights to share, rights to transfer, right of association, and so forth) the more "free" and "safe" they become.
It is outrageous how these corporations have totally undermined people's rights (from use to transferability to duplication) in their own property.
In fact, many people are discussing truly interesting, intelligent, and challenging points. Keep them coming.
EDIT: I am waiting for the bloated and utterly disgusting textbook industry to require college students to purchase a socalled "new edition" each year.
No.. for the love of god..
www.amazon.com/University-Bascom-Palmer-Institute-Ophthalmology/dp/0750670754/ref=sr_1_3
Link posted to note the price. Obviously not a standard textbook, but there are hundreds of these "books" on Amazon and various stores priced well over $1,000. Other standard textbooks are all like $50-$200...
Actually, some colleges require "new revised editions" in some courses, requiring you to shell out the dough for a shiny new book.
This is pretty much my stance as well.
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
Enkindu sounds to me like one of those commercial artists that think the reason they have no money is because someone is pirating their work.
Let me clear it up: Nobody cares about your work. If it is free, they might take a look at it. Otherwise, its just another pile of trash on the heap, and not worth the price tag.
And btw, your record/movie/publishing company is ripping you off, thats why you get paid so little. The pirates downloaded and listened to ten seconds of your music and deleted it because its trash. The world is full of trash. Just because you made that trash doesn't mean anyone is going to appreciate it. You make trash, thats why its not selling.
Because everyone spends their time downloading songs they don't like, not actually songs that they do like from their favorite artists.
The same goes for games, we all know how the latest Barbie the Island Princess completely decimated Assassin's Creed when it came to pirating last year.
Yep, piracy is fueled by people downloading things that they don't want and in fact consider trash.
(Mod Edit)
Listen up. I gave up on music 16 years ago because I realized there were many better than myself out there and I had to chance to go to professional school.
I play music because I love it.
What bozo argument are you using tonight to justify stealing music?
deviliscious: (PS. I have been told that when I use scientific language, it does not make me sound more intelligent, it only makes me sound like a jackass. It makes me appear that I am not knowledgable enough in the subject I am discussing to be able to translate it for people outside the field to understand. Some advice you might consider as well)
Anyone should be able to resale anything they buy.
If they made games with longer than 8 hours gameplay, there wouldn't be a lot of resale.
They make a game it costs £50 and it's finished on the first night.
Consequently when they find that same game on sale secondhand for £5 less next to an original copy on release day +1, they have no one to blame but themselves.
Suing you customer has never been as good a business model as providing them with quality goods they will be happy with.
Because everyone spends their time downloading songs they don't like, not actually songs that they do like from their favorite artists.
The same goes for games, we all know how the latest Barbie the Island Princess completely decimated Assassin's Creed when it came to pirating last year.
Yep, piracy is fueled by people downloading things that they don't want and in fact consider trash.
In terms of music, that's precisely the issue.
One of the things that makes Itunes successful is that you can find you favourite artists song easily, and download it instantly. It provides a better service than the free outlets. It's not just the "IP" that you are paying for.
I can quite imagine that a lot of people who downloaded Assasins Creed didn't care for it. While it was a well advertised and promoted game, I don't think it was a special one. I can also imagine it being sold secondhand a lot.
I think it's fair to say that popular selling titles are also expected to be popular pirated titles and possibly popular secondhand titles too. The key to this being the word "popular" and not piracy or resale.
On the otherhand Assasins Creed is a bad example. The game made a bundle of money. So much so they have made a sequel. Piracy and secondhand sales don't seem to have arrested it's success at all. Quite the opposite, they all made a mint. If you enjoyed Assasin's Creed and wanted the artists to make you more, then everything in the industry is working exactly the way you wanted.
David Braben what a dull fenland nerd.
I used to be able to by a 50 dollar game, and then sell it for 20 bucks.
If I can't sell it because of DRM and otehr crap, then you've cut the value of my purcase, and the game should only cost 30 bucks to begin with.
Would you pay the same price for your car if you were not allowed to sell it after you bought it?
People who pirated Assassin's Creed THOUGHT they may've liked it. People who pirate music THINK they may like it. Otherwise, what's the motivation? I was only deriding the idea that people purposefully download things they know they aren't going to like; if it were true then Barbie piracy would surpass Assassin's Creed.
Our commerce is based on that; we see movies we THINK we may like, buy books we read summaries on the back of, reviews on the front of and so on and THINK we might like the purchase. The same goes for everything else. Honest people buy what they think they'll like, pirates pirate what they think they'll like.
I'm simply against the idea that the only things pirates pirate are the things they know they won't like from the get-go.
If they end up not liking it after the fact, then that's still no reason that justify pirating. People buy cars they test drove and liked and ended up hating, sampled fragances, tried on clothes, channel surfed TVs that they bought and ended up hating, but none of that ever means starting stealing cars and shoplifting is understandable or ok.
I am a firm believer in the resale of games. Once you buy them they are yours to do with what you want. I have bought games at a good price on ebay. I am against any type of Pirateing of games. In my opinion that is nothing more than stealing.
I drive my friends cars and often don't buy them. Often I don't steal them either.
Stupid people buy what they "think" they will like. Smart people try before they buy if they are unsure, or don't buy at all. Idiots with more money than sense buy things to see if they want them. There is nothing morally superior about being stupid.
I don't agree that every pirated copy = a lost sale.
Your commerce may be based on what people "think they are going to buy from you", but my commerce isn't. I get paid when the job is done as per the clients satisfaction. I don't ask people to take a gamble on me. I offer a money back guarentee on any purchase and always have.
If you have a good product or offer a good service you have nothing to worry about in life.
If there is a strong resale market, the need to try before you buy is diminished.If a product holds it's value secondhand, it is a less risky investment.
Bingo, if the customer can finish the game in the same day he bought it (aka 0% replayability, no multiplayer options) it's not the player's fault for trying to sell it.
I drive my friends cars and often don't buy them. Often I don't steal them either.
Stupid people buy what they "think" they will like. Smart people try before they buy if they are unsure, or don't buy at all. Idiots with more money than sense buy things to see if they want them. There is nothing morally superior about being stupid.
I don't agree that every pirated copy = a lost sale.
Your commerce may be based on what people "think they are going to buy from you", but my commerce isn't. I get paid when the job is done as per the clients satisfaction. I don't ask people to take a gamble on me. I offer a money back guarentee on any purchase and always have.
If you have a good product or offer a good service you have nothing to worry about in life.
If there is a strong resale market, the need to try before you buy is diminished.If a product holds it's value secondhand, it is a less risky investment.
I'm pretty sure everyone on the planet has something in their closet they don't like, books that they don't like, games on their shelves that they don't like, and have seen movies that they didn't like. If you're exempt from all of that then yes, you have quite the efficient and wonderful life.
You missed the entire point though, I was responding to someone else who brought up piracy and not resaling; because there's a distinct difference from sharing what you own, resaling what you own, and making illegal copies of what you own. Resaling being ok doesn't mean piracy is ok, so the sentiments for or against shouldn't criss-cross, nor shoudl rationale such as "if I borrow my friend's car" when it's unrelated to the topic of piracy.
My point was against the person with the usual "everything sucks" angle and declaring that as motivation to pirate. My argument was that whether buying or pirating, no one buys or pirates anything that they believe sucks; they get it because they think they'll like it.
And for your "commerce" in your workplace, what that has to do with anything I wrote I have no idea, but if you not only live a life of 100% customer satisfaction as a customer, it's doubly awesome to receive 100% positive reviews and testimonials. Here I thought people could only try their best to spend well and do business well and still occasionally falter.