I think a lot of people are overlooking the fact that just playing the free portion of the game can earn you Turbine Points. You can then spent those points to unlock all the game's content. It really is a free to play game. Its possible to play 100% of the game without spending money. Its just easier to buy Turbine Points rather than earn them.
You are 100% wrong on this one. They are not going to award enough points through play or favor to allow people to play all of the game and never pay. They are looking to make money this way not lose it. And allowing everyone to grind away and never pay would be the dumbest thing Turbine ever did.
If this was true I could unlock the entire game in a week with my guild friends. They could very easily help me and any other lowbie get 2k favor and be level 16 in a week or so. Turbine is never going to give away that many free Turbine points to free players to allow them to play everything for free.
I never said the whole game could be unlocked in a week! It would probably be grindy and annoying. I'm not saying any sane person would want to do it, but it could be done as far as I can tell. At something like 50 cents an hour it may not be worth your time.
From the FAQ...
4. What are Turbine Points?
Turbine Points are the currency of the DDO store, and you can buy them with credit cards, PayPal, or at participating POSA retailers (coming soon). They are available in various point denominations. You can also earn Turbine Points for certain achievements in-game. Turbine Points never expire and can be used to pay for anything in the DDO Store.
How do you know they aren't going to award enough points to unlock content? I've heard that Turbine Points are awared at milestones for each character at certain favor levels. Its for each character too. Grind out enough favor and you'll get enough points to buy content.
There are also guest passes...
Additionally, anyone that owns one of the adventure packs can purchase a guest pass, and they can invite players it that may not have purchased the content. Those players that use the guest pass should be able to have fun in that area for an entire night, and I think that’s going to be a great way for subscribers or ala carte purchasers to pull in people that are a little more casual.
A free player may need to be nice to a subscriber, but this is another way for the free player to see content without paying for it.
Maybe they will change it, I don't know. You're welcome to show me why a free player wouldn't be able to do this, but calling me 100% wrong with nothing to back it up isn't going to change anything.
I think a lot of people are overlooking the fact that just playing the free portion of the game can earn you Turbine Points. You can then spent those points to unlock all the game's content. It really is a free to play game. Its possible to play 100% of the game without spending money. Its just easier to buy Turbine Points rather than earn them.
You are 100% wrong on this one. They are not going to award enough points through play or favor to allow people to play all of the game and never pay. They are looking to make money this way not lose it. And allowing everyone to grind away and never pay would be the dumbest thing Turbine ever did.
If this was true I could unlock the entire game in a week with my guild friends. They could very easily help me and any other lowbie get 2k favor and be level 16 in a week or so. Turbine is never going to give away that many free Turbine points to free players to allow them to play everything for free.
I never said the whole game could be unlocked in a week! It would probably be grindy and annoying. I'm not saying any sane person would want to do it, but it could be done as far as I can tell. At something like 50 cents an hour it may not be worth your time.
From the FAQ...
4. What are Turbine Points?
Turbine Points are the currency of the DDO store, and you can buy them with credit cards, PayPal, or at participating POSA retailers (coming soon). They are available in various point denominations. You can also earn Turbine Points for certain achievements in-game. Turbine Points never expire and can be used to pay for anything in the DDO Store.
How do you know they aren't going to award enough points to unlock content? I've heard that Turbine Points are awared at milestones for each character at certain favor levels. Its for each character too. Grind out enough favor and you'll get enough points to buy content.
There are also guest passes...
Additionally, anyone that owns one of the adventure packs can purchase a guest pass, and they can invite players it that may not have purchased the content. Those players that use the guest pass should be able to have fun in that area for an entire night, and I think that’s going to be a great way for subscribers or ala carte purchasers to pull in people that are a little more casual.
A free player may need to be nice to a subscriber, but this is another way for the free player to see content without paying for it.
Maybe they will change it, I don't know. You're welcome to show me why a free player wouldn't be able to do this, but calling me 100% wrong with nothing to back it up isn't going to change anything.
They will award enough to unlock content, they will not award enough to unlock all the content. They are trying to make money. No one trying to make money is going to allow you to play the entire game for free. Business 101.
You said it would be possible to play 100% and never pay and there is no way they are going to do that. The fact they are charging for modules and other content is all the proof you need that no one will be able to accrue enough favor points to play the whole game for free.
The point you are missing is that anyone can get full favor and full level in a week or two with friends. That would allow you to get all the Turbine points you can for free. That would allow you to play the whole game if your theory was true. There is simply no way that is going to happen.
You never said a week, but the point is you can get all the favor in the game in a week or so. TP will be earned by favor and completing quests. Why would they give enough to buy all content? I am trying to explain to you that getting favor is only grindy the first time if you have no one to open quests. With a friend it is super easy and would ruin the system.
Originally posted by Aganazer How do you know they aren't going to award enough points to unlock content? I've heard that Turbine Points are awared at milestones for each character at certain favor levels. Its for each character too. Grind out enough favor and you'll get enough points to buy content.
It is basic economics, if you can earn enough points to get all you would need from teh store then the game would bring in no revenue and tank, so it is just naive to think that you will be able to play for free and not run in to a myriad of things you are either completely locked out of or gimped withou paying. If it doesn't work that way then it cannot work.
Originally posted by Aganazer How do you know they aren't going to award enough points to unlock content? I've heard that Turbine Points are awared at milestones for each character at certain favor levels. Its for each character too. Grind out enough favor and you'll get enough points to buy content.
It is basic economics, if you can earn enough points to get all you would need from teh store then the game would bring in no revenue and tank, so it is just naive to think that you will be able to play for free and not run in to a myriad of things you are either completely locked out of or gimped withou paying. If it doesn't work that way then it cannot work.
Are there people here who actually think Turbine is making DDO F2P out of the goodness of their hearts?
i m not a great fan of turbine . but i think they were wise in making ddo free to play ( albeit with micro transactions and vip access ) . the game itself is nt a great mmo and it was never worth a subscription fee . but it is a fun multiplayer dungeon hack and i m sure it ll snare enough people for them to buy the action packs or become vip players . it ll proberbly do relativly well . its a shame codemasters/turbine have managed to mess up the two big names in fantasy which had such potential for becoming fantastic games . lets face it lord of the rings is ok but it could have been so much more too . i just hope whoever picks up the tolkien and dungeons and dragons franchises in future gives turbine a miss . they ve proven twice they just dont get it .
Originally posted by Aganazer How do you know they aren't going to award enough points to unlock content? I've heard that Turbine Points are awared at milestones for each character at certain favor levels. Its for each character too. Grind out enough favor and you'll get enough points to buy content.
It is basic economics, if you can earn enough points to get all you would need from teh store then the game would bring in no revenue and tank, so it is just naive to think that you will be able to play for free and not run in to a myriad of things you are either completely locked out of or gimped withou paying. If it doesn't work that way then it cannot work.
Are there people here who actually think Turbine is making DDO F2P out of the goodness of their hearts?
Rok agreeing with AgtSmith. Never thought I'd see that day!
I am 100% sure that the way the system is set up in beta right now, it would be possible for a free player to buy 100% of the game's content. I'm not saying that they won't change it. There's also those quotes from the interviews and their FAQ... Are you guys saying that they lied?
I am 100% sure that the way the system is set up in beta right now, it would be possible for a free player to buy 100% of the game's content. I'm not saying that they won't change it. There's also those quotes from the interviews and their FAQ... Are you guys saying that they lied?
Of course you can buy the stuff - that is the point of RMT and cash shop. If you mean that through normal play you can earn all the content I think you are way wrong, the game cannot survive that way because for one there is very limited content still so if you are F2P and giving no cash to turbine and burn through all the content in a month or so (easy to do) then you leave without them having gotten a penny. Now, as I said I believe this is about testing RMT for other projects so perhaps they really don't care about DDO earning anything much from this, but part of the testing is finding the balance point for where you put the barriers to get people shopping on the cash malls, so they cannot let you earn the whole game content or even much of it.
Its to bad, I was thinking about buying this game and trying it out but now that its going F2P there is a huge chance it will be like almost every other F2P game out on the market today and lack balance, on top of it costing you more than 15/mo to get full benefits, which makes it cost more than standard P2P game.
Its a bit annoying every time I want to try a mmorpg out they all go F2P or shu down on me... "Hellgate london". Guess Im sticking to FFXI for a 7th year -_-
I am 100% sure that the way the system is set up in beta right now, it would be possible for a free player to buy 100% of the game's content. I'm not saying that they won't change it. There's also those quotes from the interviews and their FAQ... Are you guys saying that they lied?
Of course you can buy the stuff - that is the point of RMT and cash shop. If you mean that through normal play you can earn all the content I think you are way wrong, the game cannot survive that way because for one there is very limited content still so if you are F2P and giving no cash to turbine and burn through all the content in a month or so (easy to do) then you leave without them having gotten a penny. Now, as I said I believe this is about testing RMT for other projects so perhaps they really don't care about DDO earning anything much from this, but part of the testing is finding the balance point for where you put the barriers to get people shopping on the cash malls, so they cannot let you earn the whole game content or even much of it.
I won't be surprised when they change it, but its the truth. Right now you can play the game enough to buy all the content with free points. Now you can shoot the messenger or not. Up to you.
You may need to play 50 characters just to earn enough points, but its possible and that's how it works right now. Shouting at the mountain and lecturing me on business doesn't change anything. All it does is show just how stubborn you are.
And AgtSmith, they pretty much said in an interview that this is about testing RMT. I don't know why you keep repeating yourself as if its your idea. They chose to test it with DDO because its a perfect fit for that business model.
Saying that they are doing this because they don't care about DDO is ridiculous. If they didn't care about DDO they would close down the servers and put all their resources into LotRO. DDO is their second biggest MMOG. Its not their biggest and its not their smallest. Would you 'not care' about $200,000 worth of revenue every month?
Originally posted by Aganazer How do you know they aren't going to award enough points to unlock content? I've heard that Turbine Points are awared at milestones for each character at certain favor levels. Its for each character too. Grind out enough favor and you'll get enough points to buy content.
It is basic economics, if you can earn enough points to get all you would need from teh store then the game would bring in no revenue and tank, so it is just naive to think that you will be able to play for free and not run in to a myriad of things you are either completely locked out of or gimped withou paying. If it doesn't work that way then it cannot work.
Are there people here who actually think Turbine is making DDO F2P out of the goodness of their hearts?
Rok agreeing with AgtSmith. Never thought I'd see that day!
I am 100% sure that the way the system is set up in beta right now, it would be possible for a free player to buy 100% of the game's content. I'm not saying that they won't change it. There's also those quotes from the interviews and their FAQ... Are you guys saying that they lied?
Turbine has lied or mislead people so often nothing they say gets believed until the proof is there. The get no good faith belief from me any longer.
I won't be surprised when they change it, but its the truth. Right now you can play the game enough to buy all the content with free points. Now you can shoot the messenger or not. Up to you.
You may need to play 50 characters just to earn enough points, but its possible and that's how it works right now. Shouting at the mountain and lecturing me on business doesn't change anything. All it does is show just how stubborn you are.
So you are saying that you can not only make "50" characters now (old limit was what, 6 to 8) but that you can pool the earned points from all toons and spend on one toon? I just don't believe that, sorry. And I know I read in the initial comments that character slots where being reduced and extra slots would cost money - so there goes that theory.
Originally posted by Aganazer
And AgtSmith, they pretty much said in an interview that this is about testing RMT. I don't know why you keep repeating yourself as if its your idea. They chose to test it with DDO because its a perfect fit for that business model.
Saying that they are doing this because they don't care about DDO is ridiculous. If they didn't care about DDO they would close down the servers and put all their resources into LotRO. DDO is their second biggest MMOG. Its not their biggest and its not their smallest. Would you 'not care' about $200,000 worth of revenue every month?
I agree it is obvious that DDo is a testbed for RMT and they have said as much, but read this thread - mayn seem to think that is not the case. AS for caring about DDO, it is hard to say one way or the other - of course they care but they are also smart enough to know that a failed 3 year old game is unlikely to become much of anything more than it was at this point. Obviously they where not making enough revenue for it to be worth it to continue as things where. I believe that they probably figured this might make some more cash overall but that at worst it would be a way to develop the RMT model for LotRO and/or Harry Potter and that DDO was a sufficiently 'lost cause' to warrent the testing and developin of the model with. As for really caring - look at their actions. Do you think a developer that for nearly a year talks about something they have no intention of releasing cares about their customers? They knew full well that all this past year while MOD 9 was vaporware that it would piss of fans and hurt DDO, yet the continued to pursue the F2P in secret and simultaneously directly and indirectly lie about MOD9 being on the way. This is the actions of a company that as written off the game for some other purpose, not the actions of a company concerned with its customers and even the future of its game.
I am 100% sure that the way the system is set up in beta right now, it would be possible for a free player to buy 100% of the game's content. I'm not saying that they won't change it. There's also those quotes from the interviews and their FAQ... Are you guys saying that they lied?
I just started looking into the game, but here is what they post on their "DDO Goes Free to Play!" page:
Here are all the benefits you get as a DDO VIP.
Feature DDO VIPFree Player
Turbine Points 500/month free Buy
Classes Free/Unlock Basic free, pay to unlock Monk and others
Races Free/Unlock Basic free, pay to unlock Warforged & Drow
Geography All included free Stormreach & vicinity
Adventure Packs All included free Some free, can purchase others
Character Slots 10 2, can purchase more
Shared Bank Slot Included Free Can purchase
Login Queue Priority Standard
Chat Unlimited Limited
Auctions Unlimited Limited
Mail Unlimited Limited
Gold Storage Unlimited Limited
Customer Service Full Self-service online
Beta Priority High Normal
So at first glance I see that Free players will have limited chat, and will also have limited Gold Storage for now, without an option to buy.
I won't be surprised when they change it, but its the truth. Right now you can play the game enough to buy all the content with free points. Now you can shoot the messenger or not. Up to you.
You may need to play 50 characters just to earn enough points, but its possible and that's how it works right now. Shouting at the mountain and lecturing me on business doesn't change anything. All it does is show just how stubborn you are.
So you are saying that you can not only make "50" characters now (old limit was what, 6 to 8) but that you can pool the earned points from all toons and spend on one toon? I just don't believe that, sorry. And I know I read in the initial comments that character slots where being reduced and extra slots would cost money - so there goes that theory.
You can always delete characters and make them again. Turbine Points are tied to your account.
I'd be willing to bet that most of my 4th grade students would have been able to figure that one out for themselves.
I won't be surprised when they change it, but its the truth. Right now you can play the game enough to buy all the content with free points. Now you can shoot the messenger or not. Up to you.
You may need to play 50 characters just to earn enough points, but its possible and that's how it works right now. Shouting at the mountain and lecturing me on business doesn't change anything. All it does is show just how stubborn you are.
So you are saying that you can not only make "50" characters now (old limit was what, 6 to 8) but that you can pool the earned points from all toons and spend on one toon? I just don't believe that, sorry. And I know I read in the initial comments that character slots where being reduced and extra slots would cost money - so there goes that theory.
You can always delete characters and make them again. Turbine Points are tied to your account.
I'd be willing to bet that most of my 4th grade students would have been able to figure that one out for themselves.
Turbine clarified that content unlocked is account wide, but earned Turbine points are not in an account wide pool of use. Someone had said they could easily run a character to 100 Favor in an hour and then delete and Turbine said the points that are earned by a character in game are for that character to spend only. The content they unlock would be account wide though.
Instead of tossing snide little insults, research better.
You can always delete characters and make them again. Turbine Points are tied to your account. I'd be willing to bet that most of my 4th grade students would have been able to figure that one out for themselves.
What do your 4th grade students say about the ridiculous idea that people are going to make and delete and make and delete characters over and over to stockpile turbine points so they can do a bit of new content? That is seriously a foolish suggestion, besides which the posted info above shows that free accounts must BUY Turbine points and as said above points are tied to characters not accounts.
The other thing this model does nothing to address is the fact that in DDO all content is instanced and completely static making the re playability very limited over even other MMOs where at least the world has some dynamic elements to it. So while it may or may nto be true that you can unlock Waterworks account wide once you have done it a few times (with each time being exactly the same as teh last time) there is not too much reason to continue running the quest outside of the rewards for doing it. Overall this is one of the biggest problems in DDO - there is just limited content and once you have done it the entertainment value diminishes greatly repeating it and once you are doing stuff for the rewards there is an even smaller number of valuable quests (easily half to 60%+ of quests are allmost universally avoided as they offer no valuable rewards compared to select other quests) whcih further reduces the practically viable content. DDO's secret problem is that there is absolute terrible balance amoungst the limited content in terms of XP and/or reward worth so teh real pool of worthy content is far, far less than tthe total count of quests by a longshot - when you are buying this quests this is a major frustration waiting to happen.
But that aside, the really foolish idea here is that the game is either going to fail because it is free to play or flourish because people are buying stuff - the two are mutually exclusive really as you cannot have the new model work without people buying stuff, and so far the reality of three years is that people don't think the game is really worth paying for. Changing it from spending $.50 or $1.00 here and there or $15 one per month really doesn't change that much as far as I can see, especially considering that free players now will only get a very limited view of the game which makes it harder to see as many people liking it and paying to get more and go further when under the old model people would get access to everything and not think it was worth going further.
I know I'm only one person, but I've been on the fence about this game since beta (I enjoyed Beta, but not enough to ever 'buy' the game,)
As an 'on the fence player,' I'm really looking forward to this and I'll definitley participate, and knowing me, I'll most definitly spend money in their micro transaction shop.
So, bottom line, I am the target audience that they are looking for, and I am exited by the move by turbine. I am also only one person, so it's not a 'given' that it will work, just proof that what they are attempting to do, is going to work on at least one person... who know, there might be more out there like me too.
zWolf, nobody is denying that some won't find this a positive change, just as nobody is arguing that some won't hate the change. The argument is more about if this is likely to take a game of 3+ years age that has failed under the subscription model and turn it in to a success. On that measure I think it is clearly an uphill battle which makes one wonder what the real plan is by Turbine. Seriously, do we really think that Turbine believes that months of work and changes are worth it for this old and near dead game? Hardly seems like a good investment until you look at the plans they have discussed and you realize that this change with DDO is more about the testing platform for RMT than a turnaround for DDO.
It comes down to this, it is fair to say that MMO players rejected DDO as not being worth $15 a month to play. But if we are to believe this RMT thing is about making DDO more successful then there are only two ways that can happen - finding fewer people to pay more each month or finding more players willing to pay less each month to play (whether in one chunk or in micro transactions). If DDO's 'failure' was simply price based then they could easily just change the month fee to $10 or $8.95 or whatever and roll all these people in who are willing to pay less to play and there would be no need to piss off the existing base with nearly a year of lies about MOD 9 and another few months of development and testing of things that really do not add to the game (cash shop and the like) they only alter the pay model. It simply defies reason to believe they are going through all of this because it is somehow going to resurrect a dead 3+ year old game, clearly they are doing it to get the RMT model down for their other stuff in a way that uses the players to subsidize development.
Yeah, it is superior and that is why it failed to attract even the bare minimum number of players to keep a few servers up and running as a traditional sub based MMO. ...
I.. I guess I don't understand this question, I mean I think it's been 3 or close to 3 years that this has been runnin as a traditional sub based MMO... many an MMO hasn't made it that long, so.. um, if not superior - at least it has succeeded where you are indicating failure.
the move is obviously a grab at getting more than what they are getting now. But from release, I have thought that this game didn't fit a subscription based model.
for, me, I hope they hit a home run with this and go from 'niche but pays the bills' to new way to do business.
I do have more to say about your theory on this being a test bed - that was my first thought when I Read this anouncement as well, so I'm inclined to agree whole heartedly with that portion of your arguments... well whole heartedly with out quite the gloom and doom you associate with it .. ala the 'and then they will pull the plug.' mentality.
I didn't encourage or discourage people from playing, I don't much care what folks do in that regard. As a topic of conversation it is worth countering those who continue to buy the spin and marketing dribble time and time again.
Hmm, I'd have to disagree with you that you wern't 'discouraging' people from playing... perhaps you didn't say the exact words, "I discourage you from playing!" but man, C'mon, if 100 random people who hadn't heard of DDO before read just your posts as their only information regarding the game, odd's are that a much larger percentage of them would be dis-inclined to play the game that you referenced in your ravings than those that would want to.
with out going back to pull quotes, I can think of a few times when you used the sentiment of "...this failed game." in reference to DDO. that seems rather discouraging.
For some one who seems to be so against spin, it appears that your trying pretty hard here to 'spinn' the fact that you didn't discourage people from playing.
None of us know whether DDO has made money or not, when we use the term success we mean a thriving, or at least healthy population, and a game that is getting reasonable development attention. DDO has been left for dead by Turbine for some time in terms of content - look at first year or so very last year or so and it is dramatic the difference in content and development from Turbine and populations for some time have been drastically low. For over a year Turbine has been giving limited resources to the servers and network even farming them off to a third party at one point - for the longest time the game has lagged worse than those FPS servers pimple faced kids run in their Mom's basement. So yeah, it is fair to say that as MMOs go DDO is not a successful MMO. That being said, when a pay to play MMO, one with a major IP like D&D, has to go free to pay it is an obvious indicator that it is failing. Major IPs are few and far between and you don't pay millions to get the license to build a community of 15 to 20k subscribers.
As for playing - personal choice. I don't care who plays and who does not. The discussion is about the game, the recent announcement from Turbine and how it might affect the game's future, and for my two cents what I think is the real motivation behind the change.
Back to the RMT-F2P thing, consider a silly analogy. Think of a McDonald's burger that is selling very poorly. So the McDonald's execs hold a big press conference ad state that the problem is the pricing methodology. So instead of selling the burger for $0.99 as they did before they are going to re-price things as follows:
burger patty - $0.39 (cooked is extra $0.19)
bun - $0.29 (sesame seeds is extra $0.9)
pickles, lettuce, onions - $0.9 ea.
mayo, mustard, ketchup, special sauce - $0.9 ea.
They go on in the press conference to say how the taste will remain the same, the service will as well, and the ingredients will be identical because those are not the problem in fact they are the best in the business. Tell me this is something any half brained twit graduating from night business school would think is a good idea and keep in mind that McDonald;s doesn't have to outlay tons of cash building new grills and stuff to make this change (as DDO has to do lots of development to make their change). But this is what we are to believe from Turbine, that they believe the game as it is is something people will love, even though 3 + years of subscribers and free trials has led the game to the very sewers of MMOs, just like it is if they can only carve it up in to smaller pieces and sell those pieces individually for what amounts in the end to a higher price. ??? Sorry, but that is insane ever for the IP killers at Turbine. The only reasonable explination is that they figure enough of the vets will still sub and the F2P thing will amount to enough subsidy to test an RMT model for other projects. This is not about repacking a turd as mini turds and selling them off, this is about building systems for their other games plain and simple.
It is like saying that if someone won't buy a widget for $20 and the product wallows for years selling poorly that changing the price to 4 weekly payments of $5 is going togenerate a bunch of new customers.
other than the product wallowing for years, (and I bet that's not even a deterant,) this approach is EXACTLY how car salesmen sell cars.
If you disagree, just head to your local car dealership, and see how many of them talk to you about small micro payments, instead of the over all price of the vehicle. Why not try it on other products, especialy somthning as new as MMO's.
I'm excited by the new prospect!
by your own arguments, DDO was heading into a dark place and doomed to failure, so what? so this is their hail marry pass... and why is that a bad thing?
they would be crazy as sin if they are in trouble and they continued to do the same thing that had not worked for them in the past.
I think that from your previous comments, you'd say that they were failing at what they were doing, and now it looks like your argueing vehemently that they are going to fail with this new plan... ok, doomed if they do, doomed if they don't.
Are you thinking then that what they should do is just pull the plug? is that what your angling for? Well that's not how bussiness works, they are going to scrape and inovate just as much as they can to get every penny out of their investment that they possibly can. <-- that is closer to how business works.
if you are not arguing for an imediate shut down of the DDO servers, then how bout an idea for what YOU think would be better for them to do, I'm mostly just curious. (belive it or not, I have enjoyed reading your well thought out arguments, even though I disagree with, or don't see the reasoning behind many of them.)
It simply defies reason to believe they are going through all of this because it is somehow going to resurrect a dead 3+ year old game, clearly they are doing it to get the RMT model down for their other stuff in a way that uses the players to subsidize development.
IThink that I'm getting the point of your arguments, not necessarily to 'tear down' DDO or anything, but rather to say 'hey look guys, a major motivation for this move, is to test RMT's in the RPG/MMO world.'
Well sir, on that we can agree - I think so as well, as a matter of fact during the first read through of the announcement, I Was contemplating how they would bring this to LOTRO. (and as for those who will cry 'no! they said they wouldn't do that!", well, I've been around too long to buy into what the current crop of community liaisons 'say' will or 'won't' happen... in the end, it's all about the Benjamin’s.)
I was thinking the other day, how is Turbine going to keep making $$'s off all the folks that have these life time subscriptions? Then shortly after, I read their announcement about DDO and the light bulb went off! Aha! Now THERE is something that could work! And micro T's to the mix and presto! New money for Development!
That said, (anyone else reading this and disagreeing with it,) don't waste too much breath arguing that will never happen, I'm pretty un-effected either way... just as long as the servers stay up heh.
Anyway, Agent Smith has put forth plenty of reasoning behind the fact that this RMT testing in DDO could be for a number of projects! Well, in this 'new world' of gaming (not so new now is it.. but it still seems like not long ago that I was logging in to UO for the beta test heh,) in this 'new world' I figure there will be plenty of 'experiments'. I look forward to the evolution of the art!
other than the product wallowing for years, (and I bet that's not even a deterant,) this approach is EXACTLY how car salesmen sell cars. If you disagree, just head to your local car dealership, and see how many of them talk to you about small micro payments, instead of the over all price of the vehicle. Why not try it on other products, especialy somthning as new as MMO's.
I don't see the correlation, but just let's say for a minute it exists - tell me how trusted or liked or honest care salesman are though to be? Not very, the tactics are reviled for being dishonest and even exploitative.
Originally posted by zWolf
by your own arguments, DDO was heading into a dark place and doomed to failure, so what? so this is their hail marry pass... and why is that a bad thing? they would be crazy as sin if they are in trouble and they continued to do the same thing that had not worked for them in the past. I think that from your previous comments, you'd say that they were failing at what they were doing, and now it looks like your argueing vehemently that they are going to fail with this new plan... ok, doomed if they do, doomed if they don't. Are you thinking then that what they should do is just pull the plug? is that what your angling for? Well that's not how bussiness works, they are going to scrape and inovate just as much as they can to get every penny out of their investment that they possibly can. <-- that is closer to how business works. if you are not arguing for an imediate shut down of the DDO servers, then how bout an idea for what YOU think would be better for them to do, I'm mostly just curious. (belive it or not, I have enjoyed reading your well thought out arguments, even though I disagree with, or don't see the reasoning behind many of them.)
As I said, they could get off their butts and actually add the content they deserve, they could lower the sub price, they could actually improve and add to the game in order to improve its flaws and expand its play. They could go free monthly and sell mods. They could fix the servers that have lagged so bad for so long that it is hard to imagine they are a pay to play on servers. They could NOT spend a year talking up content they know is never coming to the game, at least not in the form talked about (these DDO Unlimited changes go way back as MOD 8 started changes that where for this F2P thing). In short, they could stop leveraging their customers and start servicing them - they could stop hyping the game and the game's future and actually do something to improve or innovate the game so it has a better future.
If they are unwilling or unable to do those things thenat the very least they should thanks those that kept a near DOA game going for 3 years and tell them that it is nto worth the time or trouble to make it better or to do the things above so they are gonna use the game to test/develop RMT for their other projects hoping that it can make the game more viable and popular but at least make the game useful to remain open a bit longer and see what happens. In other words, they could show their fans the respect they have certainly earned by being honest with them, and even showing them appreciation for paying their salaries over the years while they where working not on delivering the content promised but on developing other projects.
Originally posted by zWolf
IThink that I'm getting the point of your arguments, not necessarily to 'tear down' DDO or anything, but rather to say 'hey look guys, a major motivation for this move, is to test RMT's in the RPG/MMO world.'
I would word it that they are exploiting current customer to pay for their testing but essentially that is the gist of it. I just think it is worth pointing out when these companies are being less than honest, especially when it involves fans who through thick and thin kept DDO going, they deserve better from Turbine than a year of false promises about MOD 9 and being used to pay to test their new project stuff.
I mean even if you put aside assumptions the reality is that turbine is currently charging people to play the beta of what will be a F2P game - it doesn't even make sense. If Turbine was honestly tying to reinvent DDO then they would have gone to F2P immediately and invited current (and possibly recent former subscribers in if they needed more) and left it totally free until out of beta. Who charges $15/month for a BETA, worse still who charges $15/month for a BETA of a F2P game?
It simply defies reason to believe they are going through all of this because it is somehow going to resurrect a dead 3+ year old game, clearly they are doing it to get the RMT model down for their other stuff in a way that uses the players to subsidize development.
IThink that I'm getting the point of your arguments, not necessarily to 'tear down' DDO or anything, but rather to say 'hey look guys, a major motivation for this move, is to test RMT's in the RPG/MMO world.'
Well sir, on that we can agree - I think so as well, as a matter of fact during the first read through of the announcement, I Was contemplating how they would bring this to LOTRO. (and as for those who will cry 'no! they said they wouldn't do that!", well, I've been around too long to buy into what the current crop of community liaisons 'say' will or 'won't' happen... in the end, it's all about the Benjamin’s.)
I was thinking the other day, how is Turbine going to keep making $$'s off all the folks that have these life time subscriptions? Then shortly after, I read their announcement about DDO and the light bulb went off! Aha! Now THERE is something that could work! And micro T's to the mix and presto! New money for Development!
That said, (anyone else reading this and disagreeing with it,) don't waste too much breath arguing that will never happen, I'm pretty un-effected either way... just as long as the servers stay up heh.
Anyway, Agent Smith has put forth plenty of reasoning behind the fact that this RMT testing in DDO could be for a number of projects! Well, in this 'new world' of gaming (not so new now is it.. but it still seems like not long ago that I was logging in to UO for the beta test heh,) in this 'new world' I figure there will be plenty of 'experiments'. I look forward to the evolution of the art!
May we all have our 'happy moments' of gaming.
zWolf -out.
I'm not going to say it won't happen to LOTRO but I am pretty sure Turbine would completely screw themselves if they went to RMT in LOTRO as they are in DDO. Just for the simple fact that anyone who paid lifetime would say "Screw Turbine, I'll never trust or buy from them ever again." They would post anywhere and everywhere to stay away from this company.
The MMO community will know if Turbine completely f-ed up or if it was a smart move with in 6 months after this goes live.
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Comments
You are 100% wrong on this one. They are not going to award enough points through play or favor to allow people to play all of the game and never pay. They are looking to make money this way not lose it. And allowing everyone to grind away and never pay would be the dumbest thing Turbine ever did.
If this was true I could unlock the entire game in a week with my guild friends. They could very easily help me and any other lowbie get 2k favor and be level 16 in a week or so. Turbine is never going to give away that many free Turbine points to free players to allow them to play everything for free.
I never said the whole game could be unlocked in a week! It would probably be grindy and annoying. I'm not saying any sane person would want to do it, but it could be done as far as I can tell. At something like 50 cents an hour it may not be worth your time.
From the FAQ...
4. What are Turbine Points?
Turbine Points are the currency of the DDO store, and you can buy them with credit cards, PayPal, or at participating POSA retailers (coming soon). They are available in various point denominations. You can also earn Turbine Points for certain achievements in-game. Turbine Points never expire and can be used to pay for anything in the DDO Store.
How do you know they aren't going to award enough points to unlock content? I've heard that Turbine Points are awared at milestones for each character at certain favor levels. Its for each character too. Grind out enough favor and you'll get enough points to buy content.
There are also guest passes...
Additionally, anyone that owns one of the adventure packs can purchase a guest pass, and they can invite players it that may not have purchased the content. Those players that use the guest pass should be able to have fun in that area for an entire night, and I think that’s going to be a great way for subscribers or ala carte purchasers to pull in people that are a little more casual.
A free player may need to be nice to a subscriber, but this is another way for the free player to see content without paying for it.
Maybe they will change it, I don't know. You're welcome to show me why a free player wouldn't be able to do this, but calling me 100% wrong with nothing to back it up isn't going to change anything.
You are 100% wrong on this one. They are not going to award enough points through play or favor to allow people to play all of the game and never pay. They are looking to make money this way not lose it. And allowing everyone to grind away and never pay would be the dumbest thing Turbine ever did.
If this was true I could unlock the entire game in a week with my guild friends. They could very easily help me and any other lowbie get 2k favor and be level 16 in a week or so. Turbine is never going to give away that many free Turbine points to free players to allow them to play everything for free.
I never said the whole game could be unlocked in a week! It would probably be grindy and annoying. I'm not saying any sane person would want to do it, but it could be done as far as I can tell. At something like 50 cents an hour it may not be worth your time.
From the FAQ...
4. What are Turbine Points?
Turbine Points are the currency of the DDO store, and you can buy them with credit cards, PayPal, or at participating POSA retailers (coming soon). They are available in various point denominations. You can also earn Turbine Points for certain achievements in-game. Turbine Points never expire and can be used to pay for anything in the DDO Store.
How do you know they aren't going to award enough points to unlock content? I've heard that Turbine Points are awared at milestones for each character at certain favor levels. Its for each character too. Grind out enough favor and you'll get enough points to buy content.
There are also guest passes...
Additionally, anyone that owns one of the adventure packs can purchase a guest pass, and they can invite players it that may not have purchased the content. Those players that use the guest pass should be able to have fun in that area for an entire night, and I think that’s going to be a great way for subscribers or ala carte purchasers to pull in people that are a little more casual.
A free player may need to be nice to a subscriber, but this is another way for the free player to see content without paying for it.
Maybe they will change it, I don't know. You're welcome to show me why a free player wouldn't be able to do this, but calling me 100% wrong with nothing to back it up isn't going to change anything.
They will award enough to unlock content, they will not award enough to unlock all the content. They are trying to make money. No one trying to make money is going to allow you to play the entire game for free. Business 101.
You said it would be possible to play 100% and never pay and there is no way they are going to do that. The fact they are charging for modules and other content is all the proof you need that no one will be able to accrue enough favor points to play the whole game for free.
The point you are missing is that anyone can get full favor and full level in a week or two with friends. That would allow you to get all the Turbine points you can for free. That would allow you to play the whole game if your theory was true. There is simply no way that is going to happen.
You never said a week, but the point is you can get all the favor in the game in a week or so. TP will be earned by favor and completing quests. Why would they give enough to buy all content? I am trying to explain to you that getting favor is only grindy the first time if you have no one to open quests. With a friend it is super easy and would ruin the system.
It is basic economics, if you can earn enough points to get all you would need from teh store then the game would bring in no revenue and tank, so it is just naive to think that you will be able to play for free and not run in to a myriad of things you are either completely locked out of or gimped withou paying. If it doesn't work that way then it cannot work.
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It is basic economics, if you can earn enough points to get all you would need from teh store then the game would bring in no revenue and tank, so it is just naive to think that you will be able to play for free and not run in to a myriad of things you are either completely locked out of or gimped withou paying. If it doesn't work that way then it cannot work.
Are there people here who actually think Turbine is making DDO F2P out of the goodness of their hearts?
i m not a great fan of turbine . but i think they were wise in making ddo free to play ( albeit with micro transactions and vip access ) . the game itself is nt a great mmo and it was never worth a subscription fee . but it is a fun multiplayer dungeon hack and i m sure it ll snare enough people for them to buy the action packs or become vip players . it ll proberbly do relativly well . its a shame codemasters/turbine have managed to mess up the two big names in fantasy which had such potential for becoming fantastic games . lets face it lord of the rings is ok but it could have been so much more too . i just hope whoever picks up the tolkien and dungeons and dragons franchises in future gives turbine a miss . they ve proven twice they just dont get it .
It is basic economics, if you can earn enough points to get all you would need from teh store then the game would bring in no revenue and tank, so it is just naive to think that you will be able to play for free and not run in to a myriad of things you are either completely locked out of or gimped withou paying. If it doesn't work that way then it cannot work.
Are there people here who actually think Turbine is making DDO F2P out of the goodness of their hearts?
Rok agreeing with AgtSmith. Never thought I'd see that day!
I am 100% sure that the way the system is set up in beta right now, it would be possible for a free player to buy 100% of the game's content. I'm not saying that they won't change it. There's also those quotes from the interviews and their FAQ... Are you guys saying that they lied?
Of course you can buy the stuff - that is the point of RMT and cash shop. If you mean that through normal play you can earn all the content I think you are way wrong, the game cannot survive that way because for one there is very limited content still so if you are F2P and giving no cash to turbine and burn through all the content in a month or so (easy to do) then you leave without them having gotten a penny. Now, as I said I believe this is about testing RMT for other projects so perhaps they really don't care about DDO earning anything much from this, but part of the testing is finding the balance point for where you put the barriers to get people shopping on the cash malls, so they cannot let you earn the whole game content or even much of it.
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Its to bad, I was thinking about buying this game and trying it out but now that its going F2P there is a huge chance it will be like almost every other F2P game out on the market today and lack balance, on top of it costing you more than 15/mo to get full benefits, which makes it cost more than standard P2P game.
Its a bit annoying every time I want to try a mmorpg out they all go F2P or shu down on me... "Hellgate london". Guess Im sticking to FFXI for a 7th year -_-
Of course you can buy the stuff - that is the point of RMT and cash shop. If you mean that through normal play you can earn all the content I think you are way wrong, the game cannot survive that way because for one there is very limited content still so if you are F2P and giving no cash to turbine and burn through all the content in a month or so (easy to do) then you leave without them having gotten a penny. Now, as I said I believe this is about testing RMT for other projects so perhaps they really don't care about DDO earning anything much from this, but part of the testing is finding the balance point for where you put the barriers to get people shopping on the cash malls, so they cannot let you earn the whole game content or even much of it.
I won't be surprised when they change it, but its the truth. Right now you can play the game enough to buy all the content with free points. Now you can shoot the messenger or not. Up to you.
You may need to play 50 characters just to earn enough points, but its possible and that's how it works right now. Shouting at the mountain and lecturing me on business doesn't change anything. All it does is show just how stubborn you are.
And AgtSmith, they pretty much said in an interview that this is about testing RMT. I don't know why you keep repeating yourself as if its your idea. They chose to test it with DDO because its a perfect fit for that business model.
Saying that they are doing this because they don't care about DDO is ridiculous. If they didn't care about DDO they would close down the servers and put all their resources into LotRO. DDO is their second biggest MMOG. Its not their biggest and its not their smallest. Would you 'not care' about $200,000 worth of revenue every month?
The game never had balance so I don't see how F2P will change anything.
It is basic economics, if you can earn enough points to get all you would need from teh store then the game would bring in no revenue and tank, so it is just naive to think that you will be able to play for free and not run in to a myriad of things you are either completely locked out of or gimped withou paying. If it doesn't work that way then it cannot work.
Are there people here who actually think Turbine is making DDO F2P out of the goodness of their hearts?
Rok agreeing with AgtSmith. Never thought I'd see that day!
I am 100% sure that the way the system is set up in beta right now, it would be possible for a free player to buy 100% of the game's content. I'm not saying that they won't change it. There's also those quotes from the interviews and their FAQ... Are you guys saying that they lied?
Turbine has lied or mislead people so often nothing they say gets believed until the proof is there. The get no good faith belief from me any longer.
So you are saying that you can not only make "50" characters now (old limit was what, 6 to 8) but that you can pool the earned points from all toons and spend on one toon? I just don't believe that, sorry. And I know I read in the initial comments that character slots where being reduced and extra slots would cost money - so there goes that theory.
I agree it is obvious that DDo is a testbed for RMT and they have said as much, but read this thread - mayn seem to think that is not the case. AS for caring about DDO, it is hard to say one way or the other - of course they care but they are also smart enough to know that a failed 3 year old game is unlikely to become much of anything more than it was at this point. Obviously they where not making enough revenue for it to be worth it to continue as things where. I believe that they probably figured this might make some more cash overall but that at worst it would be a way to develop the RMT model for LotRO and/or Harry Potter and that DDO was a sufficiently 'lost cause' to warrent the testing and developin of the model with. As for really caring - look at their actions. Do you think a developer that for nearly a year talks about something they have no intention of releasing cares about their customers? They knew full well that all this past year while MOD 9 was vaporware that it would piss of fans and hurt DDO, yet the continued to pursue the F2P in secret and simultaneously directly and indirectly lie about MOD9 being on the way. This is the actions of a company that as written off the game for some other purpose, not the actions of a company concerned with its customers and even the future of its game.
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I just started looking into the game, but here is what they post on their "DDO Goes Free to Play!" page:
Here are all the benefits you get as a DDO VIP.
Feature DDO VIP Free Player
Turbine Points 500/month free Buy
Classes Free/Unlock Basic free, pay to unlock Monk and others
Races Free/Unlock Basic free, pay to unlock Warforged & Drow
Geography All included free Stormreach & vicinity
Adventure Packs All included free Some free, can purchase others
Character Slots 10 2, can purchase more
Shared Bank Slot Included Free Can purchase
Login Queue Priority Standard
Chat Unlimited Limited
Auctions Unlimited Limited
Mail Unlimited Limited
Gold Storage Unlimited Limited
Customer Service Full Self-service online
Beta Priority High Normal
So at first glance I see that Free players will have limited chat, and will also have limited Gold Storage for now, without an option to buy.
So you are saying that you can not only make "50" characters now (old limit was what, 6 to 8) but that you can pool the earned points from all toons and spend on one toon? I just don't believe that, sorry. And I know I read in the initial comments that character slots where being reduced and extra slots would cost money - so there goes that theory.
You can always delete characters and make them again. Turbine Points are tied to your account.
I'd be willing to bet that most of my 4th grade students would have been able to figure that one out for themselves.
So you are saying that you can not only make "50" characters now (old limit was what, 6 to 8) but that you can pool the earned points from all toons and spend on one toon? I just don't believe that, sorry. And I know I read in the initial comments that character slots where being reduced and extra slots would cost money - so there goes that theory.
You can always delete characters and make them again. Turbine Points are tied to your account.
I'd be willing to bet that most of my 4th grade students would have been able to figure that one out for themselves.
Turbine clarified that content unlocked is account wide, but earned Turbine points are not in an account wide pool of use. Someone had said they could easily run a character to 100 Favor in an hour and then delete and Turbine said the points that are earned by a character in game are for that character to spend only. The content they unlock would be account wide though.
Instead of tossing snide little insults, research better.
What do your 4th grade students say about the ridiculous idea that people are going to make and delete and make and delete characters over and over to stockpile turbine points so they can do a bit of new content? That is seriously a foolish suggestion, besides which the posted info above shows that free accounts must BUY Turbine points and as said above points are tied to characters not accounts.
The other thing this model does nothing to address is the fact that in DDO all content is instanced and completely static making the re playability very limited over even other MMOs where at least the world has some dynamic elements to it. So while it may or may nto be true that you can unlock Waterworks account wide once you have done it a few times (with each time being exactly the same as teh last time) there is not too much reason to continue running the quest outside of the rewards for doing it. Overall this is one of the biggest problems in DDO - there is just limited content and once you have done it the entertainment value diminishes greatly repeating it and once you are doing stuff for the rewards there is an even smaller number of valuable quests (easily half to 60%+ of quests are allmost universally avoided as they offer no valuable rewards compared to select other quests) whcih further reduces the practically viable content. DDO's secret problem is that there is absolute terrible balance amoungst the limited content in terms of XP and/or reward worth so teh real pool of worthy content is far, far less than tthe total count of quests by a longshot - when you are buying this quests this is a major frustration waiting to happen.
But that aside, the really foolish idea here is that the game is either going to fail because it is free to play or flourish because people are buying stuff - the two are mutually exclusive really as you cannot have the new model work without people buying stuff, and so far the reality of three years is that people don't think the game is really worth paying for. Changing it from spending $.50 or $1.00 here and there or $15 one per month really doesn't change that much as far as I can see, especially considering that free players now will only get a very limited view of the game which makes it harder to see as many people liking it and paying to get more and go further when under the old model people would get access to everything and not think it was worth going further.
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AgntSmith,
I know I'm only one person, but I've been on the fence about this game since beta (I enjoyed Beta, but not enough to ever 'buy' the game,)
As an 'on the fence player,' I'm really looking forward to this and I'll definitley participate, and knowing me, I'll most definitly spend money in their micro transaction shop.
So, bottom line, I am the target audience that they are looking for, and I am exited by the move by turbine. I am also only one person, so it's not a 'given' that it will work, just proof that what they are attempting to do, is going to work on at least one person... who know, there might be more out there like me too.
zWolf -out.
Thank you,
zWolf -out.
zWolf, nobody is denying that some won't find this a positive change, just as nobody is arguing that some won't hate the change. The argument is more about if this is likely to take a game of 3+ years age that has failed under the subscription model and turn it in to a success. On that measure I think it is clearly an uphill battle which makes one wonder what the real plan is by Turbine. Seriously, do we really think that Turbine believes that months of work and changes are worth it for this old and near dead game? Hardly seems like a good investment until you look at the plans they have discussed and you realize that this change with DDO is more about the testing platform for RMT than a turnaround for DDO.
It comes down to this, it is fair to say that MMO players rejected DDO as not being worth $15 a month to play. But if we are to believe this RMT thing is about making DDO more successful then there are only two ways that can happen - finding fewer people to pay more each month or finding more players willing to pay less each month to play (whether in one chunk or in micro transactions). If DDO's 'failure' was simply price based then they could easily just change the month fee to $10 or $8.95 or whatever and roll all these people in who are willing to pay less to play and there would be no need to piss off the existing base with nearly a year of lies about MOD 9 and another few months of development and testing of things that really do not add to the game (cash shop and the like) they only alter the pay model. It simply defies reason to believe they are going through all of this because it is somehow going to resurrect a dead 3+ year old game, clearly they are doing it to get the RMT model down for their other stuff in a way that uses the players to subsidize development.
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I.. I guess I don't understand this question, I mean I think it's been 3 or close to 3 years that this has been runnin as a traditional sub based MMO... many an MMO hasn't made it that long, so.. um, if not superior - at least it has succeeded where you are indicating failure.
the move is obviously a grab at getting more than what they are getting now. But from release, I have thought that this game didn't fit a subscription based model.
for, me, I hope they hit a home run with this and go from 'niche but pays the bills' to new way to do business.
I do have more to say about your theory on this being a test bed - that was my first thought when I Read this anouncement as well, so I'm inclined to agree whole heartedly with that portion of your arguments... well whole heartedly with out quite the gloom and doom you associate with it .. ala the 'and then they will pull the plug.' mentality.
zWolf -out.
Thank you,
zWolf -out.
Hmm, I'd have to disagree with you that you wern't 'discouraging' people from playing... perhaps you didn't say the exact words, "I discourage you from playing!" but man, C'mon, if 100 random people who hadn't heard of DDO before read just your posts as their only information regarding the game, odd's are that a much larger percentage of them would be dis-inclined to play the game that you referenced in your ravings than those that would want to.
with out going back to pull quotes, I can think of a few times when you used the sentiment of "...this failed game." in reference to DDO. that seems rather discouraging.
For some one who seems to be so against spin, it appears that your trying pretty hard here to 'spinn' the fact that you didn't discourage people from playing.
...I'm just sayin.
zWolf -out
Thank you,
zWolf -out.
None of us know whether DDO has made money or not, when we use the term success we mean a thriving, or at least healthy population, and a game that is getting reasonable development attention. DDO has been left for dead by Turbine for some time in terms of content - look at first year or so very last year or so and it is dramatic the difference in content and development from Turbine and populations for some time have been drastically low. For over a year Turbine has been giving limited resources to the servers and network even farming them off to a third party at one point - for the longest time the game has lagged worse than those FPS servers pimple faced kids run in their Mom's basement. So yeah, it is fair to say that as MMOs go DDO is not a successful MMO. That being said, when a pay to play MMO, one with a major IP like D&D, has to go free to pay it is an obvious indicator that it is failing. Major IPs are few and far between and you don't pay millions to get the license to build a community of 15 to 20k subscribers.
As for playing - personal choice. I don't care who plays and who does not. The discussion is about the game, the recent announcement from Turbine and how it might affect the game's future, and for my two cents what I think is the real motivation behind the change.
Back to the RMT-F2P thing, consider a silly analogy. Think of a McDonald's burger that is selling very poorly. So the McDonald's execs hold a big press conference ad state that the problem is the pricing methodology. So instead of selling the burger for $0.99 as they did before they are going to re-price things as follows:
burger patty - $0.39 (cooked is extra $0.19)
bun - $0.29 (sesame seeds is extra $0.9)
pickles, lettuce, onions - $0.9 ea.
mayo, mustard, ketchup, special sauce - $0.9 ea.
They go on in the press conference to say how the taste will remain the same, the service will as well, and the ingredients will be identical because those are not the problem in fact they are the best in the business. Tell me this is something any half brained twit graduating from night business school would think is a good idea and keep in mind that McDonald;s doesn't have to outlay tons of cash building new grills and stuff to make this change (as DDO has to do lots of development to make their change). But this is what we are to believe from Turbine, that they believe the game as it is is something people will love, even though 3 + years of subscribers and free trials has led the game to the very sewers of MMOs, just like it is if they can only carve it up in to smaller pieces and sell those pieces individually for what amounts in the end to a higher price. ??? Sorry, but that is insane ever for the IP killers at Turbine. The only reasonable explination is that they figure enough of the vets will still sub and the F2P thing will amount to enough subsidy to test an RMT model for other projects. This is not about repacking a turd as mini turds and selling them off, this is about building systems for their other games plain and simple.
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other than the product wallowing for years, (and I bet that's not even a deterant,) this approach is EXACTLY how car salesmen sell cars.
If you disagree, just head to your local car dealership, and see how many of them talk to you about small micro payments, instead of the over all price of the vehicle. Why not try it on other products, especialy somthning as new as MMO's.
I'm excited by the new prospect!
by your own arguments, DDO was heading into a dark place and doomed to failure, so what? so this is their hail marry pass... and why is that a bad thing?
they would be crazy as sin if they are in trouble and they continued to do the same thing that had not worked for them in the past.
I think that from your previous comments, you'd say that they were failing at what they were doing, and now it looks like your argueing vehemently that they are going to fail with this new plan... ok, doomed if they do, doomed if they don't.
Are you thinking then that what they should do is just pull the plug? is that what your angling for? Well that's not how bussiness works, they are going to scrape and inovate just as much as they can to get every penny out of their investment that they possibly can. <-- that is closer to how business works.
if you are not arguing for an imediate shut down of the DDO servers, then how bout an idea for what YOU think would be better for them to do, I'm mostly just curious. (belive it or not, I have enjoyed reading your well thought out arguments, even though I disagree with, or don't see the reasoning behind many of them.)
thanks,
zWolf -out.
Thank you,
zWolf -out.
IThink that I'm getting the point of your arguments, not necessarily to 'tear down' DDO or anything, but rather to say 'hey look guys, a major motivation for this move, is to test RMT's in the RPG/MMO world.'
Well sir, on that we can agree - I think so as well, as a matter of fact during the first read through of the announcement, I Was contemplating how they would bring this to LOTRO. (and as for those who will cry 'no! they said they wouldn't do that!", well, I've been around too long to buy into what the current crop of community liaisons 'say' will or 'won't' happen... in the end, it's all about the Benjamin’s.)
I was thinking the other day, how is Turbine going to keep making $$'s off all the folks that have these life time subscriptions? Then shortly after, I read their announcement about DDO and the light bulb went off! Aha! Now THERE is something that could work! And micro T's to the mix and presto! New money for Development!
That said, (anyone else reading this and disagreeing with it,) don't waste too much breath arguing that will never happen, I'm pretty un-effected either way... just as long as the servers stay up heh.
Anyway, Agent Smith has put forth plenty of reasoning behind the fact that this RMT testing in DDO could be for a number of projects! Well, in this 'new world' of gaming (not so new now is it.. but it still seems like not long ago that I was logging in to UO for the beta test heh,) in this 'new world' I figure there will be plenty of 'experiments'. I look forward to the evolution of the art!
May we all have our 'happy moments' of gaming.
zWolf -out.
Thank you,
zWolf -out.
I don't see the correlation, but just let's say for a minute it exists - tell me how trusted or liked or honest care salesman are though to be? Not very, the tactics are reviled for being dishonest and even exploitative.
As I said, they could get off their butts and actually add the content they deserve, they could lower the sub price, they could actually improve and add to the game in order to improve its flaws and expand its play. They could go free monthly and sell mods. They could fix the servers that have lagged so bad for so long that it is hard to imagine they are a pay to play on servers. They could NOT spend a year talking up content they know is never coming to the game, at least not in the form talked about (these DDO Unlimited changes go way back as MOD 8 started changes that where for this F2P thing). In short, they could stop leveraging their customers and start servicing them - they could stop hyping the game and the game's future and actually do something to improve or innovate the game so it has a better future.
If they are unwilling or unable to do those things thenat the very least they should thanks those that kept a near DOA game going for 3 years and tell them that it is nto worth the time or trouble to make it better or to do the things above so they are gonna use the game to test/develop RMT for their other projects hoping that it can make the game more viable and popular but at least make the game useful to remain open a bit longer and see what happens. In other words, they could show their fans the respect they have certainly earned by being honest with them, and even showing them appreciation for paying their salaries over the years while they where working not on delivering the content promised but on developing other projects.
I would word it that they are exploiting current customer to pay for their testing but essentially that is the gist of it. I just think it is worth pointing out when these companies are being less than honest, especially when it involves fans who through thick and thin kept DDO going, they deserve better from Turbine than a year of false promises about MOD 9 and being used to pay to test their new project stuff.
I mean even if you put aside assumptions the reality is that turbine is currently charging people to play the beta of what will be a F2P game - it doesn't even make sense. If Turbine was honestly tying to reinvent DDO then they would have gone to F2P immediately and invited current (and possibly recent former subscribers in if they needed more) and left it totally free until out of beta. Who charges $15/month for a BETA, worse still who charges $15/month for a BETA of a F2P game?
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Achiever 60.00%, Socializer 53.00%, Killer 47.00%, Explorer 40.00%
Intel Core i7 Quad, Intel X58 SLi, 6G Corsair XMS DDR3, Intel X-25 SSD, 3 WD Velociraptor SATA SuperTrak SAS EX8650 Array, OCZ 1250W PS, GTX 295, xFi, 32" 1080p LCD
IThink that I'm getting the point of your arguments, not necessarily to 'tear down' DDO or anything, but rather to say 'hey look guys, a major motivation for this move, is to test RMT's in the RPG/MMO world.'
Well sir, on that we can agree - I think so as well, as a matter of fact during the first read through of the announcement, I Was contemplating how they would bring this to LOTRO. (and as for those who will cry 'no! they said they wouldn't do that!", well, I've been around too long to buy into what the current crop of community liaisons 'say' will or 'won't' happen... in the end, it's all about the Benjamin’s.)
I was thinking the other day, how is Turbine going to keep making $$'s off all the folks that have these life time subscriptions? Then shortly after, I read their announcement about DDO and the light bulb went off! Aha! Now THERE is something that could work! And micro T's to the mix and presto! New money for Development!
That said, (anyone else reading this and disagreeing with it,) don't waste too much breath arguing that will never happen, I'm pretty un-effected either way... just as long as the servers stay up heh.
Anyway, Agent Smith has put forth plenty of reasoning behind the fact that this RMT testing in DDO could be for a number of projects! Well, in this 'new world' of gaming (not so new now is it.. but it still seems like not long ago that I was logging in to UO for the beta test heh,) in this 'new world' I figure there will be plenty of 'experiments'. I look forward to the evolution of the art!
May we all have our 'happy moments' of gaming.
zWolf -out.
I'm not going to say it won't happen to LOTRO but I am pretty sure Turbine would completely screw themselves if they went to RMT in LOTRO as they are in DDO. Just for the simple fact that anyone who paid lifetime would say "Screw Turbine, I'll never trust or buy from them ever again." They would post anywhere and everywhere to stay away from this company.
The MMO community will know if Turbine completely f-ed up or if it was a smart move with in 6 months after this goes live.
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.